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@@edwardfletcher7790...the thermistor etc. Might be useful in WARNING but if a cell is going to go it's going to go. I have no numbers for the probability but if you bh one lotto ticket you have a small but finite chance... If you buy 10, 000 ( typical tesla)..well you have a much better chance of hitting the jackpot.
@@bunsw2070 Saving 5 cent per cell on other things? Musk is insane that way. However, their batteries are at least an order of a magnitude safer than unbranded Chinese batteries.
WE are the carbon they want to eliminate. Bill Gates has made that clear, and in one of Kacklin' Kamala's speeches she talks about population reduction.
the survival rule: no gas bottles, no cryogenic liquids in elevators. If any of these or just large baggage should be transported by an elevator, then you should organize it by yourself or with a help of some capable and instructed people and put a sign in elevator that it is used for cargo transport and no people should enter it. Nowadays any large Li ion battery should be in this list as well. Li batteries should be transported by aviation using bomber jets only, to be able to drop them if they experience a runaway )
As someone who barely survived a fuel truck explosion I know how that poor bastard died. The main tank didn’t blow, it was a short in the fuel gauge in the seat tank. (I was told fire blew six feet out of the open windows.) Fortunately. I was conscious enough to pull up on the door handle to open the door and fall out to crawl on the ground. I rolled in the sand to put out any fire on my clothes. I had 2nd and 3rd degree burns on 30% of my body. (This was in rural TX, no burn center but fortunately a great country doctor.) The only scars still visible are the melted cartilage of my ears, where the curved ridges fused together. (PTSD episodes, when a fire suddenly flashes up in front of me, still happens.) The result was that I became the most safety-conscious person, at least regarding combustible fuel storage, that you would ever meet.
"The seat tank," my brother found a deal an old Fargo one time that had the gas tank behind the seat, in the cab. That truck dated from 1965 or so, you definitely don't see in-cabin fuel storage on any modern vehicles, that's for sure. Ford had the design problem with the Pinto which made it susceptible to throwing liquid gas into the cabin if it ever got rear-ended. They discovered the design flaw but opted not to fix it because they figured out it was more cost-effective to pay off the insurance claims, on deaths and injuries, than to correct the flaw. When the first wrongful death lawsuit went to court, their calculation was presented to the Jury. The jury opted to award 100% of Ford's budget to the FIRST victims. (Ford quickly changed tack & did a comprehensive recall campaign.)
@@Grunchy005 Putting the Pinto aside, I have to wonder.. How in almighty hell did anyone think it was a good idea to put the gas tank IN the cab of a pickup truck? The flammability of gasoline was well known!
Putting fuel tanks in the OUTside of a vehicle as the alternative carries the risk of penetration and rupture thence fire in even a minor collision or roll over etc , burst proofing thr tanks is a better option (I did so on a number of Hughes 300 helicopters in the 80s after crash fire revealed the problem) Going to the E V show in Melbourne today, 'debunking' the fire risk is one of the talks... Carrying electric bikes on trains was banned some time ago but you see it happening , also with mobility aids (' go phers' , electric wheelchairs )
I was nearly killed in a motor accident accident where an asshole run a red light, the highway patrol were about to Zip me up in the body bay, when luckily for me the Paramedics arrived I was resuscitated in-situ, and then Rushed to the Royal Melbourne Hospital, who stabilised me, and this led onto a about a Year of Hospital and Recovery time! So agreed with JC that the risks and potential aftermath of running a red light far exceed mis-parking in an EV Bay station, and agreed the Penalty for running a red light should be considerably higher, when compared to the inconvenience of not having an EV charging station available. The Green loonies out there need to grow up, learn the Truth about so-called 'Green' - non carbon burning vehicles, and look at the true 'Carbon' impact of these vehicles, from construction to the ongoing running and life of these Vehicles, and just think of how much emissions are released when the batteries go up in Smoke!. Sorry EV lovers, I'll be keeping my ICE car for a long time, for as long as I can!
My thoughts exactly. I have also had close calls, on a motorcycle, as a result of drivers running red lights, or not head checking. I hope you've recovered well. Stu. Melbourne
@@stuartwood7252 Yeah Sadly my Triumph Speed Triple died in this event, and like the legend they were, my ride took the brunt of the impact, and died saving me. Sadly many car drivers don't see us riders, don't head check and are the cause of many problems. Prior to the Red light incident, a similar thing happened to me on Springvale Rd. where a couple were arguing, failed to look around/ head check etc. and pulled out directly in front of me causing a T-Bone collision. Another week in hospital for me, and 6 months of recovery as my broken leg and neck wound healed! So again I don't have much respect for the many out there who expect their car to drive for them, and are too lazy to learn to drive properly, and expect their 'EV's to do it all. I learned to drive in a manual Gear Box (both motorbike and car) and will continue to 'Drive' to till my death, no robots or AI for me!!
Almost every time I get on a peak time train in Melbourne some clown brings one of these scooters or bikes on board with a carriage filled with a hundred or so passengers. Doors and windows sealed. Nowhere to run! It’s just a matter of time!
Add, the same scenario, between stations, in the underground city loop, and someone panicks and hits the emergency brake. Air-conditioning, spreading toxic fumes from carriage to carriage. It will be carnage. Not if, but when. Stu. Melbourne
Just a little note for pretty much everyone. Run your vehicles on FUEL, which combines in a very controlled way with atmospheric oxygen. Do not pack what is basically rocket fuel and oxidiser one foot from ur ass.
@@johncunningham4820 I did not say that. I have seen e bike owners removing their battery after they leave the bike itself chained up on the footpath. The batteries are not cheap. Some people would steal the milk out of your coffee if they could. I don't live in a perfect utopia. So yes I believe many people are dishonest. That does not make me a right wing fascist.
Except he forgot to mention that statistics prove an EV is 80 times less likely to catch fire than an ICE...but don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.
That is frightening. The battery is not exactly huge but the reaction is massive. I feel sorry for the guy and his family. I always worry that something like this will happen with an EV in an underground carpark where it may be difficult for people to make a quick exit, scary stuff.
yea, and it dosn't help that the fumes are toxic enough to knock you uncounsious really fast too. Having a EV go WHOOSH in a parpark would be so sodding bad in so many different ways.
We really don't know alot about his battery weather he built it or even got a super cheapie. Yes it can happen as a buddy had his I phone 6 catch fire charging in his highlander , total loss .
It depends on how you define a battery as "huge" It's absolutely massive if trapped in a lift with the thing when it goes exothermic. The fault (or basically short circuit) current would likely be in the kA's too. I wouldn't wanna be anywhere near the thing if it did that. Even a football field wouldn't be big enough for me.
That poor bastard didn't have a chance, this is a real eye opener to what can happen in a fraction of a second. People are taking these things for granted and ultimately paying the price, and it's only going to get worse!
I remember during the Christmas rush season a few years back, a really big push in the news about how dangerous and sometimes unpredictable Li-on batteries could be. Back when electric scooters, skate boards, and other wheel machines were popular. Then the push for EV's started, and it was all quietly memory holed. Because people wouldn't want to be riding around on top of huge toxic flame throwers that can't be extinguished easily.
I have an e-bike. It is a well known brand and I used to charge it overnight. (I dont use it every day). I dont now! I am aware that, as the battery ages it might not be as stable, and I now charge it outside of the garage and away from the house while I am about.
anyone who knows the real dangers of lithium mix batteries. Smart electric RC plane/car users with lipo's typically will charge this stuff in fireproof bags for just this reason, toss anything even remotely changed shape and have been for over a decade( to be fair the charging protection isnt quite on the same levels). Also Samsung kinda showed us all back in 2016.
Sadly, in my experience of dealing with "safety" people in industry at least, no-one in any position authority actually wants to tackle the big, hard issues... everyone wants to pick off that low hanging easy effort fruit, just so they can get a nice big tick beside their name. Point out a real issue, like the contents of this video, and suddenly they all become very busy and just don't have the time to deal with you at the moment.
A coworker who has a phd in safety, is employed as a safety officer at our company, which has a policy of reporting near misses. He did not report a near miss, where the same incident previously resulted in serious injury and death. He is leaving in a month, just got a job at a company overseeing their global safety team.
Funny how we went from charging lipos in fire proof boxes for tiny helicopters and now the batteries are 50 times more powerful and people act like they are toys...
no one uses a lipo in a passenger car , and i have never found a lipo in a scooter or ebike before , thankfully the trend is to LFP batteries which take actual hammers to even think about getting rowdy
I keep my R/C plane lipo batteries in a metal container outside the house - I have had a plane go up in flames so know what even a small 3 cell lipo can do...let alone a 100's of cell car battery - I would NEVER have an EV car
My flat is burnt out as I had a e bike battery go thermal runaway at 5:30 am of February this year. I was asleep at the time but managed to get the dog and I out.
This is why I charge my battery with me in the garage with it, it's on concrete, and I'll be in the garage as it charges the whole time incase it does go thermal. Plenty of space around it to safely expel flames, fire extinguisher on standby incase something else does catch fire, and a roller door and back door for plenty of ventilation.
@@unclejohn5012see the video of exposing a 1.5 volt lithium battery to water, highly reactive. It may react with the hydrogen & the oxygen in the water forcing them to separate causing 2 separate highly flammable gases. In a confined space=explosion. Couple this with the nitrogen in the atmosphere, ouch!
I lost a house and 2 of the 4 animals living there due to a e-bike battery venting during the morning hours of Christmas eve. Was 5 years ago but still recovering from the losses. This video was terrifying to watch to say the least.
Where I live, if you have an e-bike, you do not need a license, registration or insurance for it. However, if you have a moped with the same top speed range, you must have a license, registration and insurance. By virtue of these restrictions, it makes purchase and use of e-bikes more attractive and affordable. Purposefully, I suspect.
I Love this Guy's sense of humor... his Irony should be felt all over the world!!! I had a Daymak Tokyo E-bike it came with Lead Acid Batteries... but for some stupid reason I decided to upgrade it to Lithium Ion Batteries to Increase the range... I used it faithfully to go 80 km per day everyday... and than plugged it in at home in my living room to charge, you know so it wouldn't get stolen right? well I had to go someplace left the house, and had not realized I left the e-bike charging... lithium ion thermal runaway burned my house to the ground!!! "Please mind potential fire risk and strictly follow the instruction manual for charging and storage". the warning was on the instructions...🤣😂😭😭😭
In Kazakhstan, we have similar problems because people enter lifts with military hand grenades. In other countries, they carry batteries. Potatoes, tomatoes
Decades ago, the remote control model plane and car fraternity knew of the issues re: lithium based batteries and fire. Lithium based batteries are what allowed electric powered models to equal, and actually overtake the liquid fuel powered equivalent, on all but the largest models. Previously it was NiMH batteries, that didn't quite have the storage, power to weight capacity to do the job, or the speed to recharge. But we all knew that there was a problem with overcharging, drawing too much current on discharge, and especially physical damage, so we all stored and carried batteries in dedicated containers such repurposed ammo boxes from the local disposal store, to purpose made flexible "pouches" made from some flame proof material. (clubs mandated it) That was decades ago, but here we are, with much higher capacity batteries not at all protected, and used in situations where impact, damage and general abuse is not just more likely... but is going to happen.
@@RetroCaptaini dont think a lipo pouch would've saved the dude. The problem is lack of awareness about the danger of this technology. He could've just charged that thing and dropped it by mistake moments before.
@@webreakforsquirrel4201 if they were packed in Asbestos layers ...then they can't take off. Packed in deep wet cold sand. Asbestos is obviously many times safer than than the smoke and explosion of the battery. I'd roll with the asbestos lined box vs open carry open storage while charging.
I am the President of a model flying club, We have long made procedures for these batteries and charging. We have a fire dolly with 60 litres of water in it - not to douse the planes or batteries, but to wheel over to the trees that have been torched by a crashed Lipo powered plane. We have had more Lithium fires than fuel, as a plane typically will crash rupturing the soft cells, and then they ignite. We then run over with the fire dolly and extinguishers to stop a bushfire starting. I have seen three of these incidents, and it's frightening, you have to stay on fire watch for an hour after as the trees re-ignite on their own while your standing there talking. These massive car batteries and bike batteries are WAY bigger than even the largest model plane batteries and the shear amount of stored energy is enormous. VERY IMPORTANT POINT is that when we charge our flight packs EACH individual cell is monitored by a very smart charger as they are typically 3-4 cell packs, but an EV battery weather a car or e'bike, has multiple cells in parallel as it is not possible the monitor each individual cell, they can only monitor banks of cells in parallel, which means when a single cell overcharges, something that doesn't generally happen on our individually monitored packs, because it is part of a bank, then this is the cell that starts the overheat and runaway in the pack, affecting the cells next to it. Good luck everyone and stay safe.
Because governments don’t listen to bloody experts like John. They listen to “green” people like Greta Thunberg who don’t get it. We need to change to a “greener” energy but not at the expense of good science.
Agreed…Our government and media couldn’t give a shit about us they only care about the cheap veneer of pandering to lobbyists and not to the we the people…as Ned said such is life
I started selling e bikes in about 2000. Shortly after a notice arrived from the Australian supplier about fire hazards when charging. Charge outside in a safe place was the recommendation. A quarter of a century later and 2 different types of batteries later and we still have a fire hazard with seemingly no safety warning at all. WTF?
@@paulfaulkner6299LFP = LiFePO4 = Lithium Iron Phosphate (typically 3.6v max per cell). It's relative safer than the usual Li-ion (4.2 to 4.3v max per cell). Not perfect but worthwhile for large capacities.
This reduction oxidation tragedy reminded of a great redox demonstration shown by my chemistry teach decades ago at the school oval. He did it very safely where the students ordered to keep a suitable distance away from it and he had a long magnesium strip (as a wick to start the redox reaction) in order to allow himself some space to back off from reaction. When the redox reaction gets started, its rate of its reaction will escalate very rapidly until it had completed the reaction. What was left was a puddle of molten metal on the field which was cooled down by the water that he had brought along with him.
Someone I know is getting an electric wheelchair. Wheelchairs used to use (several kinds of) lead-acid batteries, but they're moving to lithium. They're not expected to go as far or as fast as e-bikes, so from what I've been able to find out, they are about 1/4 of the capacity of a low-end e-bike battery (and still about 40 times the capacity of a laptop battery). They're exposed to a range of indoor and outdoor environments and do get a few knocks. They're not going to make as big or as nasty a fire as an e-bike battery, BUT having a wheelchair is utterly commonplace and it's difficult to see what someone who needs a wheelchair could do instead.
If the constructor doesn't try to save money, it should be reasonably safe. Over here, a scooter rental company uses the more expensive batteries with Panasonic cells on their CHinese made scooters, as opposed to the Chinese cells that they're fitted with for the domestic market. Accidents are very rare.
ANY lithium battery becomes susceptible to thermal runaway once they exceed 80°C = 176°F. It doesn't matter who made it or "how well" it's made, or how "explosion proof" the case is. You'd almost think they should include a thermometer on it somewhere/somehow...
Typical pavement-legal (4-5MPH / 6-8KPH) mobility scooters (and presumably electric wheelchairs) have 250-300W motors, which amounts to an amp or two from each cell in a Li-ion battery, assuming 4-5 parallel, at maximum draw when they're going up inclines, quite a bit less when trundling on the flat at their governed max speed, so in that respect they do have an easy life compared to most other EV's including e-bikes.
Ask for LiFePO4 (LFP). Although LFP can reach thermal runaway, it occurs at higher temperature, happens slower, still produces toxic gases but doesn't create these fast fireballs.
Regarding fuel in a container. Yesterday I stopped at a BP filling station to top up my L200 diesel pickup and a 20L steel Jerry can of diesel for my tractor, The kiosk would not set the diesel pump going until I showed her the can I was trying to fill, it's a good newish proper can and is stored in the Wood chip box on the Pick up not the cab. Safety is key. If I carry my LI-Ion battery tools to work they are kept in the Pick up bed not the Cab.
They do have vehicle elevators dude. In Europe, they were at least popular. Now just think if an EV caught fire in or out of one of those parking lots for vehicles.
Yep was showing a guy this video in a course today and was telling him the stringent rules surrounding LiPo charging at RC events and how most RC guys know very well how important it is to look after your RC batteries , storage charge always , discard batteries that are puffing etc. To think you could live in a unit block with people all around that have battery scooters etc that have no idea of the danger that lurks in the spare room.
@@SEEYAIAYE definitely not cheap and Chinese at club level RC events that I have been involved in for over a decade quality chargers that need to recharge in a short period of time before the next heats of racing and rules apply to be charged in a FIRE PROOF CHARGING BAG designed to contain any run away faults in batteries chargers also detect heat and have voltage control And management abilities to each cell and auto cut off if faults are detected. Way more advanced than any bike or scooter chargers made by manufacturers that is used by cheap products.
@@gregdean8441 Calm down I was referring to the scooters in units, I have RC stuff too and all my LiPos are currently in storage mode in a safety bag in the shed.
When I was a kid I saw someone engulfed in flames after being drenched with gas. Teens messing around huffing gas decided to throw gas on one as a joke. Another teen lit a cigarette and the fumes ignited the one drenched. I just saw a ball of fire coming down the hill and it was screaming. I froze in shock not realizing what was happening. Adults driving by immediately got out their car with blankets and coats and anything they had to smother the fire. But it was to late. He passed away being life flighted to OSU. It was the most grisly sight I ever seen in my life.
I'm a copper, John. Within the last 6 months in the area I work, there was an incident where the garages of a series of joined townhouses all went up. A complete row of ten, all with the garages burned down and significant damage to the dwelling portions of them. The culprit? An e-scooter battery on charge in one of the garages.
Increasing battery production is driving a massive increase in fossil fuel powered mining . Next comes the problem of disposal when they no longer function. I seriously doubt that increasing the use of large batteries is in any way good for the planet.
I have 3 Bosch 500Wh batteries in the house, when we got the E-MTB's I researched what I could and they are stored with 1 bar-20% charge and only charged up prior to use. Never charge a "hot" battery that's just been used, and never use a battery that's just been charged until you feel it 's cooled off. Bosch are reputable, ideally I'd store them outside but in the Scottish Highlands that's not possible in an unheated outbuilding as the sub zero temps destroy the batteries(I'm working on that- some small insulated block built container with one of those caravan tubular heaters inside, with a temperature probe and warning system should the tube fail (batteries are £5-600 each last time I checked). I'm really surprised that there hasn't been a forest fire somewhere caused by an E-MTBer crashing, smacking the battery off of a rock in an arid area...imagine that- an exploding bike in a tinder dry remote forest....
Makes me at least a little happy about the fact that the battery in my electric wheelchair is Lead Jell rather than something containing Lithium. Might not be anywhere near as energy dense, but at least it's not so likely to set my ass on fire if anything bad happens.
All safety rules are written in blood. The battery world is no exception. Please continue such Public Service Announcements on the hazards of the battery world, along with some basic rules on how to stay safer.
I saw that quote in a comment section of another youtube video. Either it was you, or someone else with the same quote. But, you're SO right that all safety rules are written in blood! I only wish there isn't too much more bloodshed before people realize the dangers of lithium batteries.
This should be shown to anyone contemplating purchase or lease of a EV so they will have a idea of what only 10% of the EV car battery can do, which can also be a locked enclosed space.
Going by the rush he's in for all we know this battery had been dropped prior to getting into the lift. Very surprised to see ad's on this video on RU-vid considering their strong ad guidelines. Hell I show a toy and now get demonetized.
According to a video about a steam locomotive boiler explosion I watched the other day a total of 155 people have been killed since the early 1800s as a result of steam boiler explosions, I wonder how many have been killed by lithium battery explosions so far.
We'll never know, the Chinese aren't talking. But 22 did die in a battery factory fire in S.Korea when they were not using or charging the batteries. They were making them into large power packs for a 'battery farm'.
That's 155 too many deaths! We must stop all this madness, and do everything possible to avoid another death! If it saves just one life, it's worth it! All dangerous things must be outlawed NOW, before one more person dies! For anyone wondering which side of this I'm on, I think it's crazy to rush into electric vehicles until the BUGS have been worked out. Contrary to what you keep hearing in the news, there is NO man-made climate crisis, so the RUSH to solve a problem that doesn't exist is very foolish.
@@tooltime9260 A steam boiler would not explode now, they have to comply with extremely strict safety regulations to ensure nothing happens. They are required to have a lead plug in the top of the firebox crown in case it boils dry which is designed to fail safely and extinguish the fire at the same time. They are also required to be hydraulically tested far in excess of the normal operating pressure to ensure they are safe and completely overhauled at set intervals. These rules are in place because of early boiler explosions, there haven't been any incidents since the 20th century and yet there are thousands of steam powered vehicles and machinery in use in museums and heritage settings with replicas still being built. Lithium batteries can explode, I have seen one explode in a disposable vape that someone had left on the ground.
Quick Question: Is it ok to store an Electric Mower Battery in the house? rather than a shed that gets extremes in temperature (Ego Arc Lithium). Only charged before use and babied to ensure never dropped or bumped. Thanks
I often see people with e-bikes that are fitted with this style of battery pack on Sydney trains, if one of them goes off like the battery in the video, and it happens after the train doors have closed, it's going to be disastrous for everyone in that carriage. Is that what it will take for some sensible regulations regarding these types of batteries?
While I agree that Chinese products are basically shit, a LiFe battery is a LiFe battery, even products made in your country of choice probably have Chinese batteries. LiFe batteries made in any country are just as dangerous, it's the energy density that is the problem.
@@YouShouldThink4Yourself Vapes don't use Lifepo4 batteries, they use Li-ion or small Lipo. Lifepo4 batteries are the safest out of the 3, but they can still go up if not used/stored/charged properly.
I had a fire on my desk thanks to a Renewed Samsung A14 from amazon so I know the feeling. I needed to remodel my room, but losing 2 monitors and a pair of speakers wasn't in the plan.
We had a similar fire with my sons HTC charging overnight and it went into thermal runaway and as it was overseas in a 3rd world country we were nearly toast as it filled up the room with gases. That tiny battery freaked us out and it was a wake up call.
@@lesleypaterson1463 my A14 wasn't even charging. In fact it was turned off and hadn't been turned on in a week. It was just sitting on my desk and I was upstairs doing dishes, fire alarm went off and I had a abc dry chemical extinquisher on the wall outside my room were my 3d printers are.
Is that an argument against EVs in comparison to the totally safe and flame proof gasoline and petroleum products? I’m sure no one has ever died from gasoline fires…
@@ROVA00 I have carted around 5 litres of petrol (gas) in a can although never in a lift (elevator). I am still here to tell the tale and both petrol (gas) and diesel are difficult to ignite if starved of oxygen and naked flame. Lithium-Ion batteries can ignite with neither oxygen or naked flame present. I know which technology I would prefer to be around.
@@AlisonDougSmith-it4xb I’ve never had a single battery explode on me either. Does it mean it’s 100% safe? No. After all the car fires and explosions, to come in and say “nuh uh, no EVs, theyre dangerous” is a bit ridiculous. It just sounds like an excuse yo justify your fear of change.
Thank you again for another informative video. This is why I replaced the batteries in my camper trailer with AGM- I know they are heavier and not as efficient but don’t have the worry when sleeping in it at night. Don’t worry about the haters.
Theoretically they should be in a fireproof cabinet on the fireproof exterior wall of your building for safety (like John's powerwall battery)... In reality John probably has them in chargers standing on a steel bench in that workshop/studio......
How long before YT nixes this because of the content sn*ff? This needs to be seen. Poor guy. I have to wonder if that pack was already overheating and he was trying to get out of the building?
I'd say he was taking his freshly charged battery from his apartment to his ebike stored in the basement of the apartments. Maybe it was overcooked in the charging process.
@@stevo184 I thought this explosion looked too hot for an ordinary lithium ion battery but with what you say it suddenly makes total sense. The charger went wrong and it was massively overcharged..
@@jasonudall8614 About 2 mins to actual death but could be 30-40 seconds of agnoizing pain and the worst fear of your life. That's worse than drowning.
That's why I now keep all my lith ion batteries in an ammo box in the middle of the back yard. The charger in another waterproof box next to the storage box and that is the only place I will charge or keep any of my home lith ion batteries. Lith ions are great power factories but sort of like someone with anger management issues..... You never know what will trigger them or when they will go off on you! Bring back Ni-Cads!
This is why Chinese manufacturers will need to step up their game. It's obvious this guy knew something was up with his battery pack, it was probably already very hot.
Yep I noticed he was not holding it before he got into lift almost like he was already scared of it. Maybe he was trying to get it out of the building after noticing it got hot...
I was in a roof space with a lithium ion head torch just a small one it started to smell really bad when I took it off the battery pack was red hot to be honest I was actually quite scared so I quickly got out of the roof and put the head torch out on the driveway having no idea what was going to happen next likely nothing happened and in a few hours it cooled down. I never used it again
@@walterdayrit675sodium ion batteries will never be used for transportation devices, maybe grid storage. If you think lithium ion battery cars are heavy a sodium ion battery car will be significantly heavier. It's not going to happen. There will be another alternative sometime but for now this could have been avoided if China tightened its safety controls. Laptops and phones can do this but it happens rarely because manufacturers don't let it happen except in the case of extreme abuse.
@@thereplacementfordisplacement Last time I checked, a Chinese car company named JMEV was already in production of sodium ion powered cars. I guess it's only a matter of time before this particular tech gets more popular, especially in cold countries where sodium ion batteries don't have decreasing range issues due to cold temperatures.
Watching further 20 ltrs of petrol actually has far greater potential for major fire/catastrophic explosion if it managed to leak into the liftwell before igniting. So basically you don't want either to be in the lift. In fact you won't ever catch me living in a multistory building. I am prepared to take a chance on staying in a multistory hotel but will breath a sign of relieve when leaving.
Battery packs built to no safety standards whatsoever are the norm in China. China has over 30k micro-mobility fires every year on top of its ~3k/year EV fires. Battery fires are completely out of control over there and when people buy cheap batteries or battery-powered stuff from Temu and friends, they are likely importing some of those.
Well, arguably if it was a gas canister - it wouldn't have been survivable in an enclosed elevator. No apartment complex would allow a gas canister in an elevator, because it would likely take down the entire building if someone lit a cigarette. The main problem here is that they need to move battery storage and charging to a seperate safe area. And proper understanding of risk.
@@babelfishdude Lighting gasoline on fire isn't going to do much unless you allow gasoline to evaporate and mix with enough air to reach an air-fuel ratio capable of deflagration first. Otherwise, all you get is a burning puddle. A properly sealed gas can in good condition won't magically explode from having a lit candle on top of it. The general ban on smoking while handling them is just an extra layer of safety, in case the can isn't in as good condition or as air-tight as you believe it to be.
@@teardowndan5364 Thats just it, much expense has been put into design of a gallon gas canister, not as much in batteries yet. When a thief uses an angle grinder to cut the lock and steal an e-bike, they may unwittingly damage the outer and inner shell of a lithium ion battery - delaying the damage until much later. No thief uses an angle grinder to steal a combustion motorcycle, out of common sense.
Probability and risk: maybe the insurance industry will kick things off. I don't recall there being any questions related to batteries when buying home and contents insurance. It's probably time they did.
And pretty soon your home insurance quotes will depend on what vehicles your neighbours drive. I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just taking it a step further knowing the kinds of scum the insurance industry consists of.
@@xpusostomos What is your address?, sound innocent. Insurance companies have an absolute plethora o information at their disposal like Exactly how many EVs are registered in your area.
@@Galerak1 Yes, our neighbour bought an EV and parks it near our garage. That finally prompted me to dispose of the flammable chemicals I'd been meaning to dispose of.
Australia has super strict storage requirements, by law, for those few people "allowed" to purchase/own firearms, which do not spontaneously discharge or cause harm, but lithium-ion time bombs are totally fine in all environments, because...."muh save the planet."
Muppet here, assume the usual pro Tesla stats arguments from me. Few apply here, though. Thank you for graphically and rationally getting the message out about the risk we assume (and too often ignore) when failing to properly engineer, handle, maintain and use our high density energy storage devices, especially, but not limited to some cheaply made lithium ion batteries used in e-bikes, skateboards and other recreational or convenience devices. BTW I don’t park my Model Y in the house, either, but consider that a small price to pay for the small step toward that electrified utopia you mentioned.
This is why if you buy lithium batteries, make absolutely certain they are from a reputable maker like Panasonic and from a reputable dealer, and that the prices are not unusually cheap. Same for lithium products. While there are some good Chinese manufacturers of LI batteries, there are a ton of bad ones that could not care less what happens to their batteries or you, as long as they make a buck. There are also countless counterfeits on the market.
Good cells (Panasonic, LG, Samsung, etc., are always better than cheap nasty ones, and 18650s or 21700s are often more robust than Lipo cells. But a big factor is the quality of the assembly, the wiring, the insulation, the avoidance of pressure points, the BMS, and a design that allows the cells to expand a little when warm (or expand a lot at end of life) without puncturing, and without rattling around when they aren't expanded. Many cheap battery implementations that I have seen tend to look OK on the lab bench, but it's anyone's guess how they would cope after a couple of thousand miles being bumped down the road in an e-bike or scooter.
yep, the whole battery pack and charge/discharge system need to be high quality. This is not a place to try to save money. Having experienced engineers designing the battery packs makes a difference too. Even Boeing had trouble with introducing a lithium battery into their 787. They did learn and fix their errors, but it shows that there is a learning curve.
Thanks for that PSA. I had no idea it could be that bad. Imagine the scene for the next poor person to try to use the elevator. That's something you won't forget.
I've always wondered why more aircraft haven't crashed due to lithium battery fires. They do transport them at partial charge, but that still doesn't cover design flaws.
@@Knowbody42 A reminder that safety regulations are always written in blood. At least three aircraft have been lost as a direct consequence of batteries igniting mid-flight. (UPS N748UP in 2006, UPS Flight 6 in 2010 and Asiana Airlines Flight 991. I'm not familiar with the history of flight safety recommendations, but I wouldn't be surprised if the restrictions on batteries (or dangerous goods in general) carried on passenger flights involved at least one deadly incident.
@@BlurbFish A South African airways flight from Taiwan back to SA was lost as well, due to having a container full of Li-Ion computer batteries onboard. SAA flight 295 in November 1987... Many early Boeing Dreamliner aircraft had emergency landing ( and fires when on the ground ) due the the Lithium standby batteries catching fire as well, and they were part of the aircraft electrical system, not cargo....
Here's a list of current Aussie aviation regulations regarding batteries. www.casa.gov.au/operations-safety-and-travel/consumer-and-passenger-advice/onboard-passenger-safety-and-behaviour/travelling-batteries-and-power-packs#Sparebatteries
There is a common denominator here, it is so obvious that everyone seems to be missing it. Fast charging! All small Li batteries, phone's ect have slow chargers. The scooters and cars have fast chargers, or the facilities to fast charge. The scooters are the worst for fire as the battery has no cooling, a hot low charge state battery can be removed and put on charge, then used again, repeat all day. The battery can only get hotter! The EV cars have cooling and temperature sensors to slow charging rate if necessary to prevent overheating, hence we do not see as many EV car fire's even thow the battery's are bigger.
I bring in my electric batteries for the trimmer and edgers in the winter and was gonna bring my bike battery in but is it safer to let them be exposed to freezing temperatures or more dangerous to have then in my basement? Maybe a safe that cannot melt down lol?
@@xpusostomosbecause LN2 spilled in a lift pushes all the oxygen out and causes baro trauma to the occupants in the lift. Burst ear drums. Possibly busted lungs and a brain bleed
@@xpusostomosliquid nitrogen has a lot more nitrogen per volume in it than a tank of nitrogen or helium or argon or whatever. That said you shouldn’t take pressurised gasses in a lift especially with other people.
Great work John. The Insurance Counsel of Australia has already made numerous public announcements regarding the risks of lithium batteries and specifically cited the risks associated with charging lithium batteries in apartments and apartment basements. Like anything in society, those with financial interests are first to act with legislation being about five years behind. We will no doubt see strata laws (fyi many new housing detached house estates are strate title) banning the charging of certain types (maybe sizes) of lithium batteries as a consequence of Insurance policies not covering these accidents. This will upset the Newtowners of the world, but there's nothing locals counsels can do about this. As a consequence of a number of lithium fire deaths in Australia, the various Coroners will make some recommendations, however I doubt these will go further than public awareness and taking aim at the easy target, Chinese made batteries.
I stayed at a very large packpacker hotel which had a lot of delivery riders staying there. And they all used E-Bikes. They took the batteries off their bikes for charging and the main charging area was right by the lifts and stairwell. It would take just one of these batteries to cook off and the whole place would become an inferno. There's no awareness of any of this.
as the modern world society diminishes the Darwinian effect the undereducated will need to be taught birt control. mankind will implode long before the ice melts
as someone who is in to RC cars that use batteries on a regular basis the community of RC it often talking about the safety of our batteries and how we charge and store them to prevent harm. damage and accidents do accure but to my knowlage as i personaly dont had any problem only property damage had been the result of failiures due to people constantly use charging bags and safe storrage containers, well the containers or charging bags dont eliminate the risk of a house fire but it massively makes the ods better to not get damage and can handle the burning batteries to get thrown out.
You're a great storyteller! I see you in a Tortuga pirate cove telling horrific but true stories to your mates around the fire...😂 Well done! Let's find out more about the safety of those batteries 🔋!
Tasmania has two car ferries. They carry hundreds of cars each week from Tasmania to Victoria. What precautions are taken to make sure a poorly maintained battery car is allowed to travel on these ships. Oh and Tasmania is about to take delivery of two new car ferries. Hopefully the battery cars will be loaded on deck where they can be pushed over the side if one catches fire. Just saying.
The Scandinavians have developed a ship board fire fighting system for EV car fires: they store brine at -19c (from memory, certainly less than 0c)which is used to drench the car from sprinklers while a fire fighter floods the car with brine using a two prong lance thrust through the rear screen. The low temperature of the brine takes away the heat and the brine being conductive shorts and causes a rapid discharge of the battery. Video of the testing is on RU-vid. The initial detection of a problem is via thermal sensors positioned on the car decks of the ferry.
Based on the video, the bottom part was the first to ignite. It means that the battery at the bottom has been crushed by continuous use for example be setting the whole pack down on the floor multiple times a day until the cell at the bottom died and causing the one in the video.
Why am I afraid more of e-bike battery fires than with cars is that e-bikes can be practically produced in ones' backyard and do not have nearly as stringent regulation as cars so a lot of clueless, penny-pinching manufacturers are making those with no regard of safety or even basic utility. Sure, they are not as dangerous per unit given their significantly smaller sizes, but as this case shows, they are anything but naive...
@@SEEYAIAYE I'm well aware of BYD and MG reputation, esp. in the EV sector, but I'd still rather be near something produced by them than a fat bike with 1KWh battery produced by 'Guan Zho Ramen Manufacture'...
@@joecoolioness6399 Probably none, or at least turning-a-blind-eye-as-a-favor-to-a-billionaire was heavily involved, which is why it's not street legal in any country that at least pretends to care about its residents and public road safety.
Imagine being trapped in a crashed EV, sitting on top of a lithium battery 100 times larger. As Dirty Harry said "do you feel lucky punk?" People have far too much faith in the "safer" LiFePO4 batteries used on home storage, they burn also, and most installations are pathetic in terms of containing or suppressing a fire.
Changed the battery in an old iPhone a few months ago. Phone hadn’t been charged for a year and was fully discharged. Had to bend it slightly to get it out and it suddenly got very hot , followed by smoke - that’s a 1.7mAh battery. Edit 1700mAh - not 1.7!
The battery was probably a lithium polymer battery they are a little more unstable than what would usually be in a bike battery. (Don’t bash a nail through a LiFePo battery but they are less easy to blow up)
I helped someone set up their new iphone 15 and during the few hours it took just sitting there transferring all the data from the old phone the back got almost too hot to touch and I freaked out and put the phone outside and googled it, Apple says it's "normal" for the battery to heat up during this, I say you're crazy if you think that's normal in any way.
Thank you John for reporting and commentating on the dangers of Lithium batteries. I have an e-mountain bike. The battery will now be stored and recharged outside, and transported on the bike-rack, and not inside the car.
