In my experience, like John says, judges tend to give you a pretty fair go, within what the law allows. Of course, anytime people are in court, someone will walk away disappointed.
Don't forget to put them in Parliament House and all the politicians' offices. Make sure the politicians are actually doing something, instead of simply receiving instructions from their lobbyist/campaign donation overlords.
I'm one of the younger drivers. Had my full licence since 2018. This $410 seatbelt fine that I got back in July was my first ever 'traffic infraction' :( because my passenger was unwell and coughing so the seatbelt slipped under his armpit in the fits, all while I was focusing on the road when those cameras went off (just 5 minutes from our destination in Chatswood, NSW). It's made me a somewhat bitter knowing that even when you apply your full cognitive faculties and attentional economy to being a safe driver for others cars and your passengers, that they'd still want to get you out on some myopic obsession of revenue scraping. Dickheads.
I got done in Chatswood recently for phone that fell out and picked up and left on my knee for 2 minutes. 5 points, $550 fine but it's another $3000 as a commercial vehicles green slip is $700 if you have no points, $1200 if any loss of points. Takes 3 years to get points back but insurance companies require you to have no points for another 3 years to get the non inflated price. So $550 fine plus six years of $500 fee on compulsory third party insurance. Good times had for all!
Were everyone to take the things to court, enforcement might stop. Be sure to demand your right to question the witness, i.e. the camera, its systems and software. If the state wants to stick it's hand in your pocket, make them work for it.
I enjoyed part 2 of the Seatbelt Segment, it was great viewing. I was watching this video in the Lounge room sitting in my RECARO Seat, wearing my Seatbelt 😂🤣. Great video John.
If the fines taken from NSW drivers actually reduced the road toll there may be some justification. But they don’t so why don’t the corporate media raise this issue at every opportunity. Why is it up to John to highlight this blatant money grab? Oh and John, in Victoria there is a Minister for men’s behaviour, so a Minister for music fits into Labor Party philosophy.
If NOT wearing a seat belt increases the risk of death for the non-wearing surely this is a good thing. It reduces the number of people who will claim pensions and be a burden on the health service. Would the state rather scrape a body off of the road or pay for 3 years of dementia care and all that money paid to blood-sucking American drug companies damaging the balance of payments.? If the saving of lives is negligible, then it should be none of anybody else's business. Electric car fires should be of far more worry to the "cock" than people not wearing seat belts. He should get his priorities sorted. Let us fine people for driving electric cars in loud shirts or charging beyond 80%.
Because a fair unbiased media working for their viewers SHOULD represent their interests. What we have instead is cma captured media by corporate interests and a fascist relationship with the Government that dishes out orders.
I managed to dodge exceeding the speed limit in a school zone once. A very enthusiastic cop was sitting with his radar at the sign marking the end of the zone. This was at 2:30pm, so just as the school zone was starting. I was pulled over and got a lecture about school zones. I said I did not think it was 2:30 yet, and looked at my watch. It showed 2:28. Faced with the evidence that I thought it was not 2:30 because of my watch, the cop had to back off. The moral, ofc, is to check the time immediately as some cops might jump the gun.
There must be a film you can put in your windscreen that reflects light back when viewed from above but still allows light through when viewed horizontal. Getting photographed from above just sounds pretty dodgy if you ask me! Screw the establishment 😂
If only 10% of traffic infringements were dealt with in court, the judicial system would explode....... Bring it on IMHO but I'm not going out of my way to get a ticket myself.
The state law enforcement wouldn't regard Rodney as someone who has driven sagely for 33 years, but a lucky bastard who hasn't been caught in 33 years. They honestly believe we're all a pack of mugs needing to be punished
I was shopping today in one of Australia's 2 main supermarket chains. On entering the product search for avocados and bananas the checkout machine halted and called for the attention of an assistant. The overhead camera disputed the fruit, stating that this was not avocados and this was not bananas. The human checkout assistant overrode the determination of the automated system on both occasions. One can make a pun of the whole system being bananas. If this is how automated checkout work who is going to trust cameras to determine "properly" and "improperly" worn seatbelts?
Many decades ago I was driving a van loaded with kit when a police car appears out of a minor side road ro my right and if I'd braked in time I would have risked the load in the back doing damage. I was charged with failing to give way to the right. Anyways I took the matter to court and pleaded guilty with extenuating circumstances. In the interim a give way sign had been erected in the minor side road. I had drawings and photographs to show it really was the driver of the police car that wasn't driving responsibly as there was a tree blocking any chance of a driver on the main road seeing a vehicle on the minor road at the intersection. Result was I got a $5 fine and no loss of points. The best piece of legal advice I have been given was when you're in the witness box was "tell the simple truth".
@@EleanorPeterson One could argue that the load is secured because it's on the inside of the van and not just up on the back deck of a larger truck not tied down.
I usually go to court in Victoria and NSW and have had good results each time keeping my record clean. I recently went in Tasmania for a 59kph in a 50 zone. The Magistrate held up the charge, gave me a lecture and applied costs. I felt the magistrate and all the staff wanted to make an example of me.
The key word here is (usually) I know that because you are a superior mainland citizen most probably from NSW or even more superior Victoria, and well, Tasmanian law doesn’t apply to you. Perhaps Tasmanian law just picked on you, A case for Discrimination as it is so unfair that 9 km over the limit is not dissmissed
Well said John.. I would love to see someone videoing themselves going through with a jacket on over the seatbelt and challenging the system for what it is... corrupt and deeply flawed.
In UK it is the responsibility of the driver to ensure any person under 14 in the vehicle is safely seated ( child seat, booster seat etc ) and uses the seat belt - but when a passenger is over 14 it is that persons responsibility, so if a 16 year old decides not to use a seat belt it is not the drivers fault in any way... and the passenger is liable
On that jacket-wearing example ... seems it is the gov's obligation to show he didn't have it on or had it on "improperly" and not his obligation to prove his innocence in this matter.
@@JT_771 camera offences are a case of 'guilty until proven innocent' unfortunately. It's easier to get away with m urder than get out of a camera ticket.
Everything you say is spot on John , especially the free entertainment that can be had by a day at the local courthouse. I'd go a step further and in certain circumstances, depending on evidence, recommend representing yourself . It's free, and magistrates love reaming the police.
Seatbelts are just too important! Having said that I just lost a delivery job missing a 30kph speed change prior to some new construction near my city. Road wasn't changed at all but missed a new 80kph sign past an airport. hadnt even got to the new road area yet. Loss of job and they have the balls to say they will send out warning notes now for first time? Didnt get mine! rough!
Hi John, my wife took a matter to court some time ago and the judge ruled in her favour and ordered no points to be taken of her license. However, some weeks later, she received a notice from the RMS stating that they had overturned the decision. I rang the Attorney Generals department and all they could say was 'yes we have heard about this happening from time to time' So much for taking it to court 😲
Wow, how can that happen, that makes it a waste of time and resources even going to court, why do we have such a f&^$ed up legal system in Australia ? !!!
Are these cameras being operated by "the government", or is it contracted out to a private for-profit company? I suspect the latter - and thus there is a major incentive to issue the maximum possible infringements - because that's what happens when things are done FOR PROFIT. If the latter, any court decision AGAINST the "infringement" should include that the for-profit company is then liable for ALL the costs of the person opposing the "infringement". This would encourage the company to do the job PROPERLY, not just to extract the maximum possible profit.
My Lexus coupe pretensions the seat belt as soon as you put it on and is always at the correct position on the shoulder and doesn’t deviate. It also clips onto the seat itself with a leather strap. I thought all modern cars had belts that fastened this way. I still agree this is a revenue raiser anyway as fixing the rubbish roads should really be a much higher priority.
Looks like there's a shortage of "blade runners " in New South Shitstainia. Maybe a surge in the sale of battery angle grinders would alleviate some of the stress for the locals .
It seems bizarre that you can take a matter to court only to plead guilty and then be considered to have saved the court time. Any reasonable person would consider that course of events wasting the court’s time, just less of it. It’s like an accounting trick.
@@voltare2amstereo Where I live, we have winter, subzero temps and, of course, winter clothing. I've heard that keeping seatbelt close to body is a good thing... but at the same time winter clothes may well obscure the view of belt being worn. What now, do I need my own car DVR video as proof?
Well where do I stand if I’m prosecuted in my 67 mustang fastback fitted with only lap belts? It is roadworthy and registered since 2010 when I bought it as a birthday present to myself!
Front seatbelts became mandatory in 1969 and for all seats was 1971. They cant do anything except if you have any belts fitted you have to use them though.
The thing that absolutely shits me is the best (almost only) way to fight these fines is to first admit guilt (even if you're NOT) and and grovel to the court saying what a good boy you have been and will never transgress again. In Vic. if you don't plead guilty you have almost NO chance of getting a reasonable result, more likely you get the original fine PLUSS process/late payment penalty.
I love how John, at that 8:04, just references the stereotyping. of Australian women: "Australia is the land where men are men! and so are the Weman too?" ...🙂😂😂🤣🤣😂😂🤣🤣😂😂
" Revenue raisers " ? John, how could you say that? It's for our safety ! Of course that costs money sometimes... The authorities are always on our side, even if sometimes we don't see it their way... Keep up the good work !
Things are different in the states. Here the "earliest opportunity to plead guilty" is when mailing back the ticket with a plea of guilty and your payment. The immediate payment is a guilty plea. You can choose a day in court instead but it isn't considered the "earliest opportunity" to accept guilt. Your court date may be seen as your first opportunity to plead "nolo contedere" (akin to accepting the charge without the guilt). I can neither confirm nor deny any personal experience in this matter;)
My mother is 94 and has a Pacemaker right where the belt sits over her shoulder, she has to place the belt under her arm as the doctor told her this was the safest way to travel in a car so not to damage the unit. Damage the unit = dead as a Dodo.
Maybe if drivers wore a T shirt that was simply black then the cameras would be unable to determine the position of the seat belt. I believe this is commonly called camouflage.
I'm curious to find out the amount of investment in these new revenue generation devices with a simple breakdown of "cost per unit itself", "cost per unit installation" and "cost per unit in running expenses and maintenance".
They should lodge a class action against the government and every individual person should sue him directly...imagine the chaos if every single person with an infringement decided to go to court.
John, if you manage to read this, I'd like to ask a (possibly silly) question. I own an old American car. It's left hand drive. If I'm driving it by myself, will the seat belt camera detect no seat belt on the traditional driver side?
Having held a NSW driving license for over 40 years, I took an "obscured number plate" fine to court because it was just a mistake on my part while rushing to load bicycles on the car at 4:30am on the day of the incident. The fine was $435 plus 3 or 4 demerit points (memory fading) as it is apparently a "safety offence" similar to speeding in a School Zone with no opportunity to request a review for leniency. After sitting in the courtroom from 8:30am to 4:30pm and losing a full day of income, the magistrate finally got to my case, read my statement where I highlighted the police officer gave me the "digital fine" and allowed me to continue my short trip home without even caring whether I rectified the obscured number plate or not, which I pointed out did nothing to enforce the apparent lack of safety. The magistrate reviewed my driving record to make an issue of a couple of speeding fines I received in the first few years of holding my license, then reduced the fine to $30, I thought that was a win until the magistrate then added $300 of "court costs" and said the demerit points would stand. My experience taught me to just pay the fine and get on with life. Happy to hear you and wife #3 had better outcomes.
Another great video dude. I did giggle to myself with your description of roosters and hen houses. I did have to check my calendar to make sure we are not in 2018.... are you turning back into a beard stroker?
Rodney Price needs to make sure that his representation seeks costs, if he wins. Don't forget to ask if there is any possibility that the camera footage could have been tampered with. An internal camera facing rearward, would be a good idea for the future as well. On the jury duty issue, upon receipt of a notice requesting your attendance, do write asking them if they are a Chapter 3 Court in accordance with the Commonwealth of Australia Constitution, under the Crown. Not legal advice, just opinion that works.
Interesting points made. I did once get a speeding ticket, back in last century, when speed cameras were new and not well understood, and not so many were installed. Ticket in question, was for 63 kmph, in a 60 zone, and being suitably pissed off at the seemingly trivial nature of their complaint, went and got legal advice. At that stage the advice was, you were technically exceeding the speed limit, so you were illegal, it was a minor difference, so the likely outcome would be a fine reduction, still points lost, but the gotcha was the costs, and an estimated $300-400, was way more than the fine (at that time). So, just pay up and shut up. Since then, for the 3 or 4 tickets since, I have just continued with that strategy, however, now, with 10s of thousands of cameras, at nearly every second lamp post, and an aggressive AI booking policy (such is the condition of state revenues) , it is clearly time to review that strategy, should the need ever arise. Thanks for the heads up. And its true, an election is coming, it always is, however, such is the size of the motorist golden egg for state revenues, nothing will change, except maybe more new lamp posts, to hang more cameras.
I understand and agree with your point that these cameras are just implemented to generate revenue. If everyone just wears the seat belt properly no revenue will be generated. I get that there will be errors where the belt is obscured by clothing but I’m certain you will have the right to appeal, and when found to be a mistake your name will be cleared and your legal bill paid by the losing party. It’s very simple wear your belt so it can be seen deny the leeches the income.
Possibly but that hasn’t happened yet has it. There are many cameras that survive many different things and again my view is you can watch me doing what you want cos I’m doing nothing wrong 🤷🏻♂️
I commented yesterday on that dudes 'seatbelt fine' story. IMO, this is actually making the roads less safe, by forcing more traffic, congestion and statistical likelyhood of crashes. When one (wo/)man takes this to court, he/she(/xim/xerb) may have to drive to a lawyer, then later themselves plus lawyer may require a driving trip to court, in the event of defense failure, the lost $s may need to be recovered via overtime work, requiring more driving trips to and fro' work, with greater amounts of driving fatigue all the way. It's a fantastically ingenious system isn't it? Charge people for being imperfect, enforce exponential amount of stress upon them, so they can fault even harder moving forward, thus accelarating the feedback loop.
Idea:- print t shirts with the seat belt on them, put the t shirt on when driving and store it on the back of the seat until you drive again. yes, wear your seat belt correctly and at all times while driving and make sure your passengers do too because that is sound advice but to prevent giving your cash away, wear the t shirt seat belt too.
So……. If I get a ticket and I’m a little short of points and the missus decides to graciously take the points, I could be done for “perverting the course of justice”. But if I get a fine for something that I’m sure I didn’t do, but cop it because fighting it in court is not worth the effort - then that is okay? I’m confused - am I committing an offence by paying the fine?
Get people to give up location of cameras that have been fined so at least the public are aware and can make corrections if need be to there belts at those locations...my mother was stung South Bowens fields (Lithgow) Great Western Highway east bound....
I got done in Chatswood recently for phone that fell out and picked up and left on my knee for 2 minutes. 5 points, $550 fine but it's another $3000 as a commercial vehicles green slip is $700 if you have no points, $1200 if any loss of points. Takes 3 years to get points back but insurance companies require you to have no points for another 3 years to get the non inflated price. So $550 fine plus six
$1,161 for the same offence in Queensland. Four demerits for the first one with double the demerits if caught a second time within twelve months of the first one. So, you can do your licence in two offences. YAY!
Well John, apparently I drive one of the wosrt death traps on the road, a modified Series 1 Land Rover, and for engineering purposes I have lap only seat belts, thankfully I rarely travel to Sydney, hopefully these revenue raising cameras don't come to our area, Lismore, soon
@mcmoose64 Thanks dude, hadn't thought of that. While we 'value our freedom' and go about our lives and doing our own thing there'll always be cash cows to milk, take care.
25:22 Many years ago I received a minor, parking related infringement notice that I thought was unfair and I had good grounds to fight it on. However, the notice also had a couple of sternly worded lines that yes, I can take the matter to court but then I can get a much higher fine and be ordered to pay court costs, blah-blah... It sounded very much more like threat than advice. Hey, just pay this fine, even if you think it's unfair, or else we'll really go to town on your arse! Of course, going to court also takes time and effort and possibly additional costs which not everybody can easily afford. They really just want to create a situation where you think you are better off paying up, even if it's unfair. Regarding adherence to traffic rules, government priority seems to be turning it into a revenue stream rather than actually doing things that matter. Just set up a bunch of cameras and rake the money in, seems to be their "solution".
Everyone who doesn't have a traffic ticket should go to court because you have nothing to lose. If they really cares about safety they would only send warnings for the first few months, because a lot of people probably don't even know that they have to wear a seat belt correctly. They would also make TV/internet commercials on how to wear seat belts properly if it was all about safety and not money. But here it is only about money and not safety while driving!
What if you get caught by a camera in Wagga as you were passing through on a holiday, and you live in Coffs Harbour, can you go to your local court, or would you have to go to the local court in Wagga.
I agree with John that we should take EV fires seriously even though no one died from one in Australia last year. Equally, we should not downplay the 29 deaths due to the failure to wear seatbelts. However, John is right to be lenient on those who have belted up but not quite exactly correctly.
Most fixed speed cameras are NEVER positioned on black spots, they are most often found on straight roads where the average mug is more likely to speed... revenue raising to the MAX!
That is no longer true with renewables and smart meter - the day is split into 15 minute segments, and if renewables wind and solar fail to provide enough at any time, the price goes up... Renewables and smart meters give more opportunities to screw customers...
