I just turned this on and I will say upfront … my son read The God Delusion and “I Don’t Have the Faith to be an Atheist” at the same time. One chapter of each, back and forth. He came through that “experiment” stronger in his faith and feeling very compassionate and “sorry” for Dawkins.
I could see way you son came out feeling sorry for Dawkins. Take a look at page 124 of "The God Delusion" and read up to point 4 on page 126. Notice Dawkins tries to refute the idea of first cause, points 1 and 2 on page 124, with the "regress" of an object, gold, with the "regress" of time, first cause, in points 1 and 2. These are two different types of regression are unrelated to each other, and can't be used to prove his point. Dawkins does this all the time, which is why it is hard to see why anybody would follow any of his ideas. Let alone trust what he says, after explanations like that.
@@michaelbrickley2443 lol that's wrong even from the definition. Atheism is not a faith it is a lack of a belief in god (type it in google see for yourself). By definition it cannot be a faith because it has no beliefs. You guys are the ones who claim you know who began the universe. We're just saying your evidence is nowhere near good enough
God is very much alive today. My gf and I began following God earlier this year in earnest and he has worked wonders in both of our lives. We both grew up in broken, non-religious/atheist homes, and lived under the fallacy that science and humanity could live independently from God-it reflected in our miserable lives and actions. Without the basis of God, morality devolves into relativism, and then into depravity.
Love Alister. Met Alister and listened to a few of his talks in person. What a wonderful speaker. Very sharp funny and most of all clever and clear. God bless
I read The God Delusion when I was really questioning my faith. And I was shocked at how poor the arguments were. I remember one chapter was dedicated to his "argument" of saying, "really? THATS your argument?" It was incredibly disappointing and almost laughable, if it wasn't so sad.
Thank you for this encouraging and insightful interview! In my own opinion, as this younger generation exalts sexual identity, they have become offended at the God of the Bible. Also, many have the impression that God is oppressive and abusive. I have seen many angry young people on TikTok pull pieces of the old testament out of context trying to prove that the God of the Bible is evil. I'm grateful for the Christian apologists who take the time to properly adress these arguments. Its very helpful in my opinion.
@@horridhenry9920Evidently he must have left Atheism. Why do Atheists get upset about apostate atheists? Don't you see people as just leaving a hobby? If I quit scrapbooking no one is going to chase me down to try to keep a scrapbooking convert.
@@kladies3021 I don’t get upset about apostate atheists. We were all born atheists and many of us were indoctrinated into theistic beliefs. People believe things for good or bad reasons. If you based your life on scrapbooking and you quit, some people might be interested to know why. As far as I’m concerned, you do whatever you want, within the law.
@@horridhenry9920You could have just simply asked " What changed your mind"? Having a thought provoking conversation can be pleasurable and insightful. Typically Atheists first comments to a person of faith is one of mocking, and sarcasm. But I understand because it's one of the Atheistic tenets.
@@horridhenry9920Atheists indoctrinate people with beliefs. They just don't believe in God. You have leaders and teachers such as Dawkins, Hutchins, etc. And you even take part in religious methods. Evangelism, sharing a testimony of Atheism etc.
Alister was a lecturer and tutor at my theological college. A brilliant mind, can talk for an hour, coherently with a beginning, well-balanced points and a relevant conclusion, all without looking at a single note! We used to say he wrote 6 books before breakfast each day...
Fabulous interview. Just ordered the book & can't wait to get stuck in! (On a personal note Sean, your "interview technique" is quite brilliant---not a slack moment or question anywhere. Such a joy to be on the receiving end of your ministry!!)
Awesome conversation. One thought about the last question on Generation Z etc. I see a connection to the current view on sexuality going back to Francis Schaeffer. In his book Escape From Reason he shows how that truth used to be based on reason, but now is based on how we feel which leads to an irrational basis for truth. He predicted that science would eventually be based on irrationality too. We are seeing that with regard to sexuality & medical "science". Many of the covid policies were run by ideology & coercion rather than sound medical science and "trans" ideology (irrational) rather than science (our sexuality is based on genes and is innate and cannot be changed). C.S. Lewis stated in his book Weight of Glory that if a person doesn't base their idea on facts and truth, it is very difficult or impossible to talk to them using facts.
May I say that Sean McDowell is one of the best (if not THE best) interviewers in Christian apologetics today. His questions are clear, concise and thought-provoking. He lets the guest do most of the talking, and he's cordial and considerate of those with whom he disagrees. He's such a good spokesman for the Christian faith.
Check out Living Waters' channel interview with Richard Dawkins Right Hand Man comes to Christ. Dawkins dedicated his book God Delusion to him. This is my son, and praise the Lord, he walks with the Lord now. I continue to pray for Richard Dawkins' salvation.
He is your son? How amazing! I watched that episode of his testimony and was amazed that he designed the 'A' logo that atheists use in their thumbnails. I love pointing out that he is now a believer in Jesus to atheists that use that logo..
So basically people used their OWN BRAINS instead of Dawkins. They actually researched as in RE- searching. Wow 👏 people investigating a thing & searching the other view. Bravo 👏
Dr. McGrath often appeared as a guest on the late Dr. Terry Winter show; in the mid-1990s. (A Canadian TV Sunday afternoon program.) Alister McGrath is a very incisive; interesting man; with an initial doctorate in molecular biophysics.
I’m an agnostic. I can relate this this. I wanted to believe evolution but it didn’t make sense. One day I watch a video about metronomes that had nothing to do with evolution. During the video it clicked! I realized evolution had no end result in mind. Evolution only helps survival.
"i don't understand it so it must be wrong" you don't understand it (literally an argument from ignorance) (look it up) so maybe educate yourself? anyway the last thing we need is another agnostic ho can;t use a brain so stay christian ffs.
You might evaluate what's been revealed more recently about the incredible sophistication and intricacy of the cell and its constituent compenents, and with this parallel Michael Behe's concept of irreducible complexity. Fascinating stuff.
It's worse than that, atheists often conflate natural selection, which we can observe, with molecules to man evolution which cannot be observed, and is just pseudo science religion masquerading as science. Professor James Tour's recent debate with Dave Farina exposed how lacking in evidence, chemical evolution is is proof of that.
You're on the right track. Keep questioning. See if you can formulate any question or test to see if Jesus is the one who created life as Christians say He is.
An interesting discussion, and an important but often forgotten point that it is the living out of the faith which is one of the best witnesses for Christianity over and above talking. In the first centuries of the Church spread through the change in life which was seen in believers rather than preaching publicly, the change in the believers life made people ask and it was then encounter through worship and preaching within the church which brought people to faith. This transformation of the life of the believer is an area which is often not spoken of and not seen in the lives of Christians today which may be why the church has lost its impact on society. My reflection is always on where I am failing to live the life of a Christian properly when people do not believe, and the points made towards the end of the interview about the questions now asked bare out how this is very much an important self-reflection if we are to be able to communicate with the struggles of the current younger generation in their context.
the church has lost it's impact cos most people see that it's nonsense. most people don't want to dictated to, religion is dying cos it can';t keep it's stupid barbaric unnatural rules to itself, you have no one to blame but yourselves interfering where you're not welcome, even christians need abortions - pew and gallup show you're on the way out, and evolution deniers speed the process up. you'll NEVER beat science.
Even atheists (actual atheists) have an inner drive to find objectives, right? I know I did and after many, many years all I found was a subjective purpose of my own making. I could find no reason for morality outside of subjective desires to not suffer, find enjoyment and avoid undesirable consequences; even if the only consequence was the result of my empathy. That eventually led me to believe that sociopaths with enough intelligence and/or brute to avoid negative consequences to themselves were superior, even if negatively consequential to the subjective purpose of others. Thank GOD I found purpose outside of myself that was intrinsically linked to the empathy I once thought was a weakness. The fallacious belief that faith was merely a 'crutch' to avoid that uncomfortable reality was dismantled. It's hard to describe the feeling (even though it's still fresh in my mind) that I had when I realized that I had faith and it was good. I felt like a child again. I NEVER want to go back to that cold, "logical" mindset. Not only was it wrong but it eventually became miserable. My only solace was in the material pleasure that I knew was pointless and fleeting.
I can't help but say I love the irony of the result of Dawkims book particularly as he is such an Atheist evangelist but in the same vein, how many Christian evangelists do an equally poor job at giving a reasoned justification for their faith???
Point @ 12.00 is excellent. People tend to argue like politicians when it comes to religion vs atheism i.e. contemptuous point scoring and personal undermining of the other - often while avoiding dealing with the issue in question. I always felt that was Hitchens' most frequently used strategy, which I found very disappointing.
Richard Dawkins is one of the most rude and arrogant people I have seen. If anything that would drive me not to be an atheist is him and Christopher Hitchens.
@@vittoriacolona that's just because you're ignorant. if you were as intelligent as atheists then you'd just find them a pain, but as they speak the truth and point out that your religions is both childish AND barbaric, you don't like that at all. i wonder why god doesn't do something about dawkins eh? it's always some ignorant stooge has to speak for god, god seemed to be happy to sit and watch. good job god isn't as bothered as you eh?
So I just looked on the American Atheists website that says.. "To be clear: Atheism is not a disbelief in gods or a denial of gods; it is a lack of belief in gods. Atheism is about what you believe. Agnosticism is about what you know." ....Can someone please explain to me the difference between disbelief and lack of belief. Thank you. Also.. Google definition of agnostic: a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God. That's seems contradictory to what the American Atheist website statement says about agnostics re believing vs knowing. "To be clear"? I'm sooo confused about their definitions. Knowing. Believing. Believing in knowing. Knowing in believing. Sheeesh. Saying "I'm not sure" seems easier. ....What about people who DO have "disbelief in gods or denial of gods"... what are they called? ... I thought that's what an atheist was..? But apparently no.. .unless I'm misunderstanding the American Atheist website..? If I were considering joining that group, I'd require more clarity on what that means. I know enough to know that I know very very very little of the visible known material world, much less the invisible world. New human discoveries blow my mind everyday!
I'm a left-wing atheist and the son of a Baptist pastor. I'm also anti-woke and anti-cancel culture, something my political side has infuriated me by adopting. But one thing that has amused me recently is Richard Dawkins having cancel culture thrust upon him. It caused him to turn to conservatives as "allies." Which is funny because he used to really hate them. This is putting him in touch with Christians, and it'd be interesting if he were to become a Christian through their influence. Which brings up an interesting dilemma: *Is there value to Christians in the woke nonsense if it were to bring atheists like Dawkins to Christ?* I don't believe God exists ... but would Christians see this as an example of "the Lord moving in mysterious ways"? :-)
Your hypothetical situation presents no dilemma for Christians. We would point to the story of Joseph. He gave God credit for bringing him to Egypt, though he came by way of his brothers' sinful decision to sell him into slavery. Joseph said, "you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to keep many people alive" (Gen. 50:20 NASB). A sovereign, omniscient God can choose to bring His plans to fruition without subverting free will or excusing sin.
@@writethewrongs Thank you for your reply. I might be missing it, but I don't _think_ you addressed my central, highlighted dilemma: *Is there value to Christians in the woke nonsense if it were to bring atheists like Dawkins to Christ?* If you _did_ address it in your reply, please tell me which part of your reply does so.
stop trying to impose your barbaric god's unnatural laws on us atheists and then we won't be half so hateful, you really don't understand what total piles of dog poop religists are do you. stay out of my way and you can worship a box of frogs for all i care, but stay out of my way.
Sean, what is “New Atheism “, and how does it differ from old atheism? I don’t believe a god exist, am I a new or old atheist. In fact the more I’ve investigated theistic claims, including listening to numerous Christian theologians and apologists, the closer I’ve come to igtheism, the position that the question of the existence of gods is meaningless as the word god has no coherent or unambiguous meaning.
If morality comes from this Abrahamic god, and the OT is his divine word, then genocide, slavery, etcetera is morally acceptable ... why is it that I feel a bit uncomfortable with this conclusion?
In my opinion the warfare model must have been inspired by Hegelians and Marxist thought. Hitchens epitomized this most strongly, although Dawkins and Harris also practiced it. They just put religion up as the "oppressor" instead of capitalism, and all the non-believers took the role of the workers, or proletariat. Dawkins dips into the Marxist notion of false consciousness too, which he called The God Delusion. And they all believed that if only the oppression by religion could be smashed, then a Utopia of scientism would arise and create almost a paradise on earth. Going back further this is deeply related to gnosticism where the main oppressor is the Demiurge. But whether Marxism or atheism the underlying model is much the same.
Brilliant observation! Historically these same types of mindset seem to lead to one outcome. And it happens over and over. I was reading about the Cult of Reason which gave some insight into the Dechristianization of France during the French Revolution. It's an interesting to observe how Christian Churches were removed and replaced with "Temples of Reason". Very interesting indeed.
@@kladies3021 Thank you, and thanks for the book recommendation. I was an atheist for 35 years, and I too believed that. But I am horrified and ashamed that I helped create this world. None of it lead to anything good or great, now that Christianity has receded, all we do is cut the perfectly healthy breasts of young women, and skewering the penises of young boys and stuffing them into the depraved cavities we call neo vaginas. Gender affirming care they call it. The world didn't become an atheist, scientific paradise, but a hellhole of demonic, Satanic depravity populated with sick, depraved cultists. And like with Communism I don't buy the "that wasn't real atheism". It's the atheism, materialism, etc that leads to it. In my opinion.
This is a great topic! But always consider the symmetrical opposite as well- I am an atheist who left the faith as a result of looking into apologetics to find answers for my questions about faith. The deeper I dug, the less apologetics proved trustworthy. Never just accept apologist answers. Always fact check and weigh against counter arguments. (unless you’re just trying to find a reason to maintain belief) ;)
The deeper you dig the more answers you get. Seek and you will find. I watched a pastor who “CLAIMS” he was solid in his faith and then he started worrying about doctrinal differences between Catholics and Protestants and on & on. The man never had rock solid faith. I turned my back on God but when I was dying of liver disease He healed me. I thought He had turned His back on me but when I prayed in Jesus name for His help, He was right there
This is a good point. However, it's the opposite for me. I was an atheist who left atheism because I started looking into apologetics to find answers. The deeper I dug, while not always easy, always brought me to the same conclusion: there must be a God. I'm relieved when I watch apologists like Sean and many others who regularly read books and other resources from people who oppose their views.
@@SeanMcDowell lol, you're wasting your time sean, you've already lost, god takes second place to human rights, sooner or later people realise god does absolutely nothing, nothing at all. jesus cures a leper - why not cure ALL lepers? humans cure people by the thousands, god cures MAYBE one cancer patient, if you're lucky. find a new topic for those nooks sean cos god is losing his popularity.
@@nosh-kami i've always been atheist and i laugh my bollocks off when i hear you religists whining about your "struggles with faith" and how you "have doubts" about this PERSONAL god whose by your side 24/7 - what kind of god is it and what kind of person are you has NO IDEA what this god is about? in my 69 years i never needed a book "how to be a better atheist" or an apologist to make me feel better, cos i never doubted god is imaginary, this god of yours is so incoherent and outright stupid it has to be a fiction. what do you need preachers and apologists for if god is personal? i'll tell you why,m cos gods are all imaginary and you have NO IDEA what a god would want.
This is quite fun! The first two video clips I ever saw with Dawkins were posted by atheists and supposed to be 'gotcha stupid christians' -video. And both times I was left with a 'that just proves christianity is true' -feeling. 😂 I don't know much about Hitchens, but Harris seems just cruel with his blatant misquoting or taking scripture out of context in a really malevolent way.
Take a look at page 124 of "The God Delusion" and read up to point 4 on page 126. Notice Dawkins tries to refute the idea of first cause, points 1 and 2 on page 124, with the "regress" of an object, gold, with the "regress" of time, first cause, in points 1 and 2. These are two different types of regression are unrelated to each other, and can't be used to prove his point. Dawkins does this all the time, which is why it is hard to see why anybody would follow any of his ideas. Let alone trust what he says, after explanations like that.
Mc Dowell does well in heading phosophical discussions of this sort, with people whom he perceives to be 'on side'. When dealing with questions that challenge him deeply (with pro-LGBT Christians, for instance) he appears unsettled and is unable to bring forth the equanimity he displays here. That's a shame because he unravels a nervousness that isn't helpful.
Religion relies on faith(which you cannot measure, unless your name’s Abraham) whereas science relies on evidence(which you can measure). They are none overlapping majisteria. 🐹
“Dawkins leads them to faith”, this is hilarious. Why doesn’t God lead them to faith? It does not matter whether Dawkins is right or wrong. If God existed and wanted a personal relationship with me, shouldn’t he come into my life and have that relationship? Everything is about other peoples stories. What does McGrath offer? Oh, yeah, other people’s stories.
Ian my friend you were not a Christian perhaps you thought you were and maybe it wasn't even your fault maybe your parents are the ones that were deceived and you just followed what they taught you. New Living Translation These people left our churches, but they never really belonged with us; otherwise they would have stayed with us. When they left, it proved that they did not belong with us.
I'm assuming your referring to me. The reason so many people are leaving ALL religions is because it is obvious they are made man forms of control from a time that is no longer relevant. For your information my parents are still Christians, I'm not that weak . The only reason people stay with a religion is fear ! Fear of upsetting your parents, your god , the fact that most of your friends and family and probably in the same religion , so you don't want to be seen as an outcast. The bible is an absolute abomination! It was written by superstitious iron age priests who still thought the earth was flat! Most of the bible can be retraced back to the Babylonians Enuma Elish, the story of Noah is practically a direct copy. I guarantee your life won't be any different without a god breathing down your neck , infact, you'll be stronger being in control of your own life , a life that WILL one day come to an end. Make the most of it on this planet, not some make believe fantasy world that doesn't exist!
and you're the one true christian and it'll be you and god an no one else in heaven right? never met a christian yet who despite being an abject self confessed sinner wasn't going to get themselves good and forgiven and spend eternity being wanked off by god.
i see you're another nut who has no life outside god bollocks, go out and play in the sun, if there is a god why waste his bounty writing tripe on the net?
don't forget to buy sean's merch, and if you really want to get into heaven franlk tureks merch too, and gary habermas', and lee strobels, mike liconahs and at LEAST ONE book from all the apologists cos no way are you getting into heaven without receipts.
51:59 I think this should be one of your most important points : stories that set out how a person went from being unconvinced to believing. What was that crucial piece of evidence that, together with other pieces built up over time actually changed their minds. Alister is correct - that would be very real.
36:45 isn’t the answer that we don’t know what the source of our ethics is? There is clearly feedback from the world on what actions are and aren’t ethical. Isn’t it possible that we can use this to learn the ethical grammar of the human animal much like we can make objective statements about the behaviours of other animals? Isn’t it true that we understand more about ethical and unethical behaviour now than we did 2000 years ago?
