From Wise to Wicked: When and Why Did Saruman Become Evil? 

Dont you mean season 1?

@@Amermito I stand corrected

Rings of power is dope.

@@argonian8581 You're the problem. You're the infection that the story line stomps out!

@@argonian8581 So you were part of the 37% who made it all the way thru the show? 37% is bad for a show with what 8 episodes?

Nailed it.

You're not wrong. I have to keep a notebook just to keep up, lol

HA!!!!

Ugh

@michaeljones9553 I see what you did there!

What’s wild is that Saruman never served Sauron nor bent to him at all in the books. The Gandalf locked in the Tower bit is explained ONLY in the Unfinished Tales Book: In [manuscript-C) The Black Riders arrived at the Gate of Isengard while Gandalf was still a prisoner in the tower. In this account, Saruman, in fear & despair, & perceiving the full horror of service to Mordor, resolved suddenly to yield to Gandalf, & to beg for his pardon & help. Temporizing at the Gate, he admitted that he had Gandalf within, & said that he would go & try to discover what he knew; if that were unavailing, he would deliver Gandalf up to them. Then Saruman hastened to the summit of Orthanc - & found Gandalf gone. Away south against the setting moon he saw a great Eagle flying towards Edoras. See, the thing is he was always master of studying the enemy & even being able to think like they do to always know exactly the best ways to handle ever situation and so on, but the thing is he didn't just become the enemy, he at this time in a sense for once actually grew afraid of him, probably Sauron did what Sauron did with Finrod Felagund in the duel of visions, (Galadriel’s elder brother who by the way was the most important in the Legendarium & is the main reason the third age even exists) which basically widdled Saruman with various visions of the past and future until it wore him down, but Saruman(Curumo) was the mostly already becoming weary due to what was called The Long Defeat, magic bleeding out from the lands of middle earth and subsequently certain things become less and less possible and the elves begin to go west. Even the ones who never wished to leave middle earth and many of which were born here by the thousands. So him also being a student and helper of Aulë of the Valar he was going to fight fire with fire and make a bid for the ring just so Sauron could never regain full power and if Saruman found a way to release himself from his power restrictions even by any small margin or worked with Eru in some way it might have worked out in the end if things went differently enough to where such action from him would be needed. Ontop of that he was growing ever jealous of Gandalf for he received the Varya from Círdan and prior to that was chosen by the other Valar, Nienna’s chosen champion to go to middle earth. But Gandalf(Olórin back then) refused over and over and exclaimed his fear of Sauron(Mairon), varya I feel would have kindle the heart of Saruman to stay strong as he had been fighting the evils of the world for a very long time since he had been sent to Middle Earth. And for the is reason Saruman wished to hold the ring at hostage. Keep Sauron from taking back his full strength and basically use it to stave off The Long Defeat. Saruman is very complex. The Hobbit movies actually shows how he was even 60 years ago during Bilbo’s story. He was one of the main forces thwarting Sauron for over 2000 years. The Númenoreans: the high men of the west; gifted Saruman with Orthanc which was of their making. Now known as Isengard. - saruman is actually trying to doublecross sauron. He wants the ring for himself. He thinks he can control it. The little orcs around saruman are from mordor - sauron's orcs sent to help saruman but also to spy on him. The big fighting orcs - the uruk hai - are loyal only to saruman. Orcs are like that. But its why saruman's orders are a bit vague - to avoid sauron's orcs knowing what saruman is doing. The movies dont make this bit of the story very clear. But notice that, while saruman knows where the fellowship is he never lets Sauron Know.

I gave you the chance of aiding me willingly, but you elected the way of pain!

Wizard fight!

​@michaeljones9553 I Love the Way that Line comes through in the movie...

When Tolkein began writing his Epic, he wanted it to become the Epic of the English peoples. And so humility, courage and duty were the virtues he wanted to show. Gandalf was all three - humble, courageous and dutiful. These are aspirational values for the Brits, and have been corrupted, Saruman-like, in former British territories such as the United States, where courage and duty are lauded, but not humility.

@@Sagan_Starborn Humility needed to be displaced by audacity in order to free our people from tyranny. The western world would no longer exist without us. Thank your lucky stars we protect your sorry asses.

I've had some issues regarding narration but I'm back on track now with plenty of scripts ready to go! Thanks for the comment 🙂

Exactly. The true Curumo in his slightly more enlarged Maia form. ❤

Most are

Would be a rare find to be something actually worse than the *Rings of Power*

Dwarves did not hate trees. Orcs hate. Dwarves just have need for trees and animals as any other children of Eru. Aule is not a bad guy here. After all, he created all elements of of the universe from which Arda and maybe even Eä itself is made of. And he is not evil. It would be unfair to blame Aule. Both Mairon and Curumo had their free will and turned evil out of their own volition.

@@matiasluukkanen7718 Maybe hate is an strong word but is fear? Did Gimli fear Fanghorn? Undoubtedly. Dwarves do have need for trees but my point is that they ARE NOT children of Eru. Aule just created them because he is kind of a dick. And sure, if one of your Maiar goes bad, maybe that is just bad luck, but two? Bad mentorship. So, is he evil? No, you are right; he absolutely is not. Yet, He is a terrible husband, an absentee teacher, and an amoral prick. I don't like him! But third worst WAS overkill, i grant you. All the best!

I have my own opinion on this, so just my two cents here, probably will be long, sorry! Also hoping this doesn’t sound like an Argument, simply interested in this conversation haha Well. I disagree. They are now children of Eru. Although adopted, still claimed by Eru. And he created them because he loved creation. And wished to share it. Aule himself says this. "I desired things other than I am, to love and to teach them, so that they too might perceive the beauty of Eä, which thou hast caused to be. For it seemed to me that there is great room in Arda for many things that might rejoice in it, yet it is for the most part empty still, and dumb. And in my impatience I have fallen into folly. Yet the making of things is in my heart from my own making by thee; and the child of little understanding that makes a play of the deeds of his father may do so without thought of mockery, but because he is the son of his father." He’s a smith. He loves to create as his father created. So in his impatience of the coming of the children of Eru, he created his own. I wouldn’t say he’s a “Dick” for that. And if we do say he is such. What would that mean for Eru then? One of his children is undoubtedly the worst one of them all. You should t blame the Teacher for the foolishness of the Student. I feel the reason for His students (Sauron and Saruman and Some Noldor, notably Faenor) Failure and turning to Evil was that they were too ambitious, that’s just what creative work tries or you, however unlike his Students, Aule remained humble before Eru and his Authority. While Aule, in his own way, Did rebel. He did seek forgiveness unlike the others and most importantly, Melkor. And if we say Aule is bad because his “Students” turned to evil. What about the others? Multitudes of Maia followed Melkor afterwards. So who’s to say who these Maia, Such as gothmog and Durins bane followed before they turned to Morgoth.

@@loremasterghosty Thanks for the thoughtful reply! I can see where you are coming from but allow me to fine tune my distaste for Aule. When I call him a dick, I don't mean he is evil; he never became corrupted. Rather, as the embodiment of technological progress, He can't help but be a dick. That is what Eru intended. Tolkien, I think, makes his views on unfettered progress at the expense of the natural world plain. Sauron, Faenor, Saruman, Durin VI (arguably), and others all fell to ruin because they sought to dominate, possess, or exploit natural aspects of Arda. While Aule probably abhorred their actions, they all fall under His purpose. Progress in of itself isn't inherently good or bad but I think Tolkien viewed it as the easiest, and maybe inevitable path, to evil. His heroes distain any machine beyond a water wheel. I THINK we are supposed to be in the 7th Age now and technology is running amuck. I think Aule, the dick, is nodding his head and saying something like: yes but Humans will still need wood and lithium and coal. Anyways, thanks again!

Yes should have paid closer attention in the 1st watch as you are very concise but also WORTH watching 3 times anyway!

If I remember rightly it because he was so arrogant and prideful that he saw it as admitting that gandalf had something he wanted from him and he himself wanted to be mighty "ring maker" and had no need of elven trinkets.

He also still believed that he could turn gandalf and wanted him fully onside.

Haha love this! Your support is much appreciated 🙏

It's canon I promise!

@@RealmsUnravelled Don`t promise, prove...

​​​@@danhubert-hx4sscan't tell if you kidding or not, cirdan is the only one known n said to have a beard in the books LotR (RotK near end) and silmarillion

@@bennruda11 You get three guesses...

This is the voice from one of the other pages

What do you mean

Sounds like a voice of wisdom to me

Artificial intelligence

there are plenty about that on youtube

More complex than that - Saruman never served Sauron nor bent to him at all in the books. The Gandalf locked in the Tower bit is explained ONLY in the Unfinished Tales Book: In [manuscript-C) The Black Riders arrived at the Gate of Isengard while Gandalf was still a prisoner in the tower. In this account, Saruman, in fear & despair, & perceiving the full horror of service to Mordor, resolved suddenly to yield to Gandalf, & to beg for his pardon & help. Temporizing at the Gate, he admitted that he had Gandalf within, & said that he would go & try to discover what he knew; if that were unavailing, he would deliver Gandalf up to them. Then Saruman hastened to the summit of Orthanc - & found Gandalf gone. Away south against the setting moon he saw a great Eagle flying towards Edoras. See, the thing is he was always master of studying the enemy & even being able to think like they do to always know exactly the best ways to handle ever situation and so on, but the thing is he didn't just become the enemy, he at this time in a sense for once actually grew afraid of him, probably Sauron did what Sauron did with Finrod Felagund in the duel of visions, (Galadriel’s elder brother who by the way was the most important in the Legendarium & is the main reason the third age even exists) which basically widdled Saruman with various visions of the past and future until it wore him down, but Saruman(Curumo) was the mostly already becoming weary due to what was called The Long Defeat, magic bleeding out from the lands of middle earth and subsequently certain things become less and less possible and the elves begin to go west. Even the ones who never wished to leave middle earth and many of which were born here by the thousands. So him also being a student and helper of Aulë of the Valar he was going to fight fire with fire and make a bid for the ring just so Sauron could never regain full power and if Saruman found a way to release himself from his power restrictions even by any small margin or worked with Eru in some way it might have worked out in the end if things went differently enough to where such action from him would be needed. Ontop of that he was growing ever jealous of Gandalf for he received the Varya from Círdan and prior to that was chosen by the other Valar, Nienna’s chosen champion to go to middle earth. But Gandalf(Olórin back then) refused over and over and exclaimed his fear of Sauron(Mairon), varya I feel would have kindle the heart of Saruman to stay strong as he had been fighting the evils of the world for a very long time since he had been sent to Middle Earth. And for the is reason Saruman wished to hold the ring at hostage. Keep Sauron from taking back his full strength and basically use it to stave off The Long Defeat. Saruman is very complex. The Hobbit movies actually shows how he was even 60 years ago during Bilbo’s story. He was one of the main forces thwarting Sauron for over 2000 years. The Númenoreans: the high men of the west; gifted Saruman with Orthanc which was of their making. Now known as Isengard. - saruman is actually trying to doublecross sauron. He wants the ring for himself. He thinks he can control it. The little orcs around saruman are from mordor - sauron's orcs sent to help saruman but also to spy on him. The big fighting orcs - the uruk hai - are loyal only to saruman. Orcs are like that. But its why saruman's orders are a bit vague - to avoid sauron's orcs knowing what saruman is doing. The movies dont make this bit of the story very clear. But notice that, while saruman knows where the fellowship is he never lets Sauron Know.

Thanks! No, this is my only RU-vid channel. That may be one of the copycat channels using my ideas and theories but I'm not sure

​@@RealmsUnravelledyeah, it seemed to me like that because the video topics are 1:1 like yours or other channels.

Nope. Tolkien hated allegory

I’d also like to explain Gandalf a bit too: Tolkien drew alot of inspiration from the norse mythology. Magical rings, Gandalf (Staff elf in old norse), Gandalfs outfit (Odin), Gandalfs title 'the grey wanderer' (Odin), Shadowfaxe (The horses of day and night Rhimfaxe and Skinfaxe), Trolls, elves, dwarves etc. * Odin had a legendary horse, Sleipnir, who had eight legs and was said to be one of the greatest horses known to the gods. Gandalf had Shadowfax, who had no equal among horses in Middle-earth and could understand the speech of men. * Ødin’s legendary gear-the spear Gungnir and the ring Draupnir-could have influenced Gandalf’s legendary sword Glamdring or, more likely, the magic staff he carries, while the ring possibly influenced Gandalf’s possession of the ring Narya (Sturlson 145). * Gandalf and Odin both receive new wisdom as a result of sacrifice, as Gandalf is reincarnated after his fight with the Balrog, and Ødin gains power and wisdom after hanging himself on the tree Yggdrasil for nine days (Sigfusson 80-85). * One of the most apparent ways in which Gandalf and Ødin are alike is that they both take the shape of an old grey pilgrim, with a wide-brimmed hat and grey cloak when they wander the mortal world and deal with the inhabitants (Pitts 7). * Gandalf and Ødin are virtually reflections of each other, as can be observed through examining their gear and animal companions, the way they sacrificed themselves and were rewarded with wisdom, and the fact that they walk the earth as old men in tattered clothing. The Renowned Steeds of Gandalf and Odin Gandalf and Ødin both have renowned horses and staves with magical properties. Odin carries the legendary spear Gungnir, which is said never to miss its mark when thrown (Sturlson 145); however, he also carries it as his staff when he wanders the earth as an old man. In the Poetic Edda, the Valkyrie Sigrdrifa advises Sigurd about the magical application of runes and tells him that there are runes inscribed on the tip of Gungnir (Sigfusson 291). This spear could be a parallel to Glamdring( High Elven King Turgon’s sword, that was forged for the Goblin wars but is most likely influential to the staff Gandalf carries on his journeys. Strikingly similar to Shadowfax, Odin possesses a legendary horse named Sleipnir, who has eight legs and can run on the ground and through the air at great speeds. This sounds very similar, in some ways, to Tolkien’s description of Shadowfax in The Two Towers, “Shadowfax tossed his head and cried aloud as if a trumpet had summoned him to battle. Then he sprang forward. Fire flew from his feet; night rushed over him” (Tolkien 228). Elden Ring, Dungeons And Dragons, Diablo, Zelda, Harry Potter, vamp diaries, Red Sonja, Oath Breakers, Dragon Lance, Willow, Conan, Swords and Magic, Highlander movie+series and so much more were inspired by Tolkiens works.​​⁠

Tolkien, (The OG of all Authors) was a veteran of the First World War and many other battles such as The Battle Of Somme etc. his works of art were to give back to the England as a form of restoring lost mythologies that he himself was a master of since he was a top professor of philology at Oxford. He did ALOT of his writing while in the trenches during WWI during small “breaks” while down in those trench forts built into the ground. And while he eldest son was in the Second World War; his Lord Of The Rings writings was strictly created above all else to give his eldest something to read while stationed wherever he was stationed. I forgot that part. They sent letters back and forth about it all the time. He was also the one and only son that actually protected his fathers legacy and work. A lot of his other work were put together BY his son after his father passed away. It’s well worth to react to the documentary behind the scenes film the director and crew and cast created together as well as the interview with the son Christopher Tolkien who you get to sort of enjoy a nice indoor and outdoor chat for like what came to about 1-2 hours of wonderful footage from an era that really must not be forgotten. His work shed a light on things like The Finnish Kalevala, Norwegian Elder Edda, The Welsh Mabinogion, The Norwegian Nibelungen, The Indian Bhagvagita & Several Irish Folklore + other Cultural things! The man also restored and translated ancient relics for the governments as one everyone trusted. Much of what’s in our dictionary come from his efforts as well. Anytime he spoke & even posted several comments into the paper as an editorial or response to certain issues as a very involved man for the world and the environment everyone turned their head to listen to him as everyone knew his worth and respected him greatly. His works show how NOT to glorify war; shows in the films if you pay close attention while watching the next films. Sharing what you know now via the after thoughts at the end of the second film! Remember. Extended edition. There is a lot missed out on especially in the second movie regarding Boromir backstory which there is much more in the books but the films WANTED to keep more but the cinemas and Harvey Weinstein literally harangued him into making a “theatrical cut” which is why you have two versions. The real version and the “theatrical cut”. It was all to make more money for the company that is the theatres/cinemas. To get more showings in per day during the year. And believe me. People were camping outside and travelling the country to watch it MORE THAN ONCE. His creations literally lead to inspiring the most currently famous books games & movies we all literally wouldn’t have enjoyed and be touched to our souls core without him and his spiritually connected brilliance. That and he was a philologist professor at Oxford first and foremost which covers so many things. Not just linguistic. The man was a true genius and Jack of all trades but ultimately LOVED the simple life. The inspiration for Lord of the Rings was not any war, but author J.R.R. Tolkien's love of language. Especially Welsh, Finnish and Old English. He lamented the loss of any true English folklore, that was wiped out after the Norman invasion of 1066, so Tolkien wrote many books on these new "legends" he came up with himself. Much of which is centered around three languages he fully developed himself. Two Elven languages and Dwarvish., Númenorean Adunaic, Black Speech(warped Numenorean and elvish) They all have syntax, vocabularies, and a whole writing system that can be learned as the Tengwar alphabet is moreso to match with the spoken elvish rather than one to one for other country’s alphabet. Hundreds of people worldwide speak elvish fluently. Tolkien did draw upon his personal experience in the trenches of World War ONE, not Two, as inspiration for some parts, most notably, the Dead Marshes that Frodo and Sam and Gollum pass through in The Two Towers. But war was not the inspiration for the entire series. World Of Warcraft. Skyrim, Harry Potter, Diablo, D&D, even Warhammer and so forth wouldn’t have. Existed without taking inspiration from and or completely ripping off from Tolkien. Many great documentaries to react to about him also more about him and AWESOME stuff from the hours & hours of behind the scenes documentaries from the DVDs of the movies which are also on RU-vid & I can send you a playlist to react to from top to bottom on the channel called Pajasek99.

Don’t see any resemblance to that

@@chaz9808 he died fighting a demon and came back in a holier form days later for one thing

If you read the books, you’d know what their names really were

Google

Games Workshop stole the concept of "space elves" from Tolkien

Yes! I’ll explain that in detail. He’s not a 2d villain. Saruman never served Sauron nor bent to him at all in the books. The Gandalf locked in the Tower bit is explained ONLY in the Unfinished Tales Book: In [manuscript-C) The Black Riders arrived at the Gate of Isengard while Gandalf was still a prisoner in the tower. In this account, Saruman, in fear & despair, & perceiving the full horror of service to Mordor, resolved suddenly to yield to Gandalf, & to beg for his pardon & help. Temporizing at the Gate, he admitted that he had Gandalf within, & said that he would go & try to discover what he knew; if that were unavailing, he would deliver Gandalf up to them. Then Saruman hastened to the summit of Orthanc - & found Gandalf gone. Away south against the setting moon he saw a great Eagle flying towards Edoras. See, the thing is he was always master of studying the enemy & even being able to think like they do to always know exactly the best ways to handle ever situation and so on, but the thing is he didn't just become the enemy, he at this time in a sense for once actually grew afraid of him, probably Sauron did what Sauron did with Finrod Felagund in the duel of visions, (Galadriel’s elder brother who by the way was the most important in the Legendarium & is the main reason the third age even exists) which basically widdled Saruman with various visions of the past and future until it wore him down, but Saruman(Curumo) was the mostly already becoming weary due to what was called The Long Defeat, magic bleeding out from the lands of middle earth and subsequently certain things become less and less possible and the elves begin to go west. Even the ones who never wished to leave middle earth and many of which were born here by the thousands. So him also being a student and helper of Aulë of the Valar he was going to fight fire with fire and make a bid for the ring just so Sauron could never regain full power and if Saruman found a way to release himself from his power restrictions even by any small margin or worked with Eru in some way it might have worked out in the end if things went differently enough to where such action from him would be needed. Ontop of that he was growing ever jealous of Gandalf for he received the Varya from Círdan and prior to that was chosen by the other Valar, Nienna’s chosen champion to go to middle earth. But Gandalf(Olórin back then) refused over and over and exclaimed his fear of Sauron(Mairon), varya I feel would have kindle the heart of Saruman to stay strong as he had been fighting the evils of the world for a very long time since he had been sent to Middle Earth. And for the is reason Saruman wished to hold the ring at hostage. Keep Sauron from taking back his full strength and basically use it to stave off The Long Defeat. Saruman is very complex. The Hobbit movies actually shows how he was even 60 years ago during Bilbo’s story. He was one of the main forces thwarting Sauron for over 2000 years. The Númenoreans: the high men of the west; gifted Saruman with Orthanc which was of their making. Now known as Isengard. - saruman is actually trying to doublecross sauron. He wants the ring for himself. He thinks he can control it. The little orcs around saruman are from mordor - sauron's orcs sent to help saruman but also to spy on him. The big fighting orcs - the uruk hai - are loyal only to saruman. Orcs are like that. But its why saruman's orders are a bit vague - to avoid sauron's orcs knowing what saruman is doing. The movies dont make this bit of the story very clear. But notice that, while saruman knows where the fellowship is he never lets Sauron Know.

Well, evil and good is a spectrum and some are closer to one or the other by birth but experiences and upbringing might shift them to either side along the scale.

No nothing is determined we make the decision to good and bad things that's human when it effects others that is when we step over the mark people say life is cruel because it enables them to do cruel things. Tolkien used the anology of war and Saruman was a depiction of the traitor within much like the state of France during the war when Vichy France was complicant with the Nazis. Saruman wanted power dominion over others in the end Grima killed so no more power over anything or anyone!

@@matthewbeumer3168 I find Saruman to be analogous to Hitler actually. That means Hitler was trying to amass power to fight some other entity similar to Sauron but failed. Genetics determine if one is more or less inclined to savage/animal behaviour.