FULGRIM'S GREAT MISTAKE? THE WARNING OF THE HERESY!

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Hey everyone Rho here! Today we're debating if Fulgrim's ignoring of Eldrad Ulthran's Heresy warning was truly his great mistake. Or if it was actually not his fault at all...
Spoiler Warning to begin as today we will be discussing events from the Horus Heresy novel "Fulgrim" by author Graham McNeill. As always I really recommend you read the stories for yourself first, without spoilers! As that's the best way to enjoy the lore for yourself.
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29 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 77

@Iceisnice1 10 месяцев назад

It's important to remember that while almost all the primarchs loved and respected Horus, Fulgrim was closer to him than most. Due to almost being wiped out by the flaw in their gene-seed, the Emperor's Children were deployed alongside the Luna Wolves for many years until they replenished their numbers. Only Ferrus was more important to Fulgrim. The idea that Horus could become a traitor was unthinkable to any primarch. But to Fulgrim, it was anathema.

@logangrimnar3800 10 месяцев назад

I wouldn't say unthinkable. The Khan, Raven Raven and Vulkan always had suspicions about Horus.

@bobjohnson1633 10 месяцев назад

The story of fulgrim's corruption is that he WANTED to join chaos from the very beginning. Fulgrim was always a piece of shit traitor

@R.J.MacReady1982 10 месяцев назад

@logangrimnar3800 baseless suspicions at the beginning. Can't act on emotions in war. Did you mean to say the 'Lion' instead of the second time you typed Raven?

@Iceisnice1 10 месяцев назад

@@logangrimnar3800 Hence why I said *almost* all the primarchs.

@REDRAGON12345 10 месяцев назад

@@Iceisnice1 You wrote, "The idea that Horus could become a traitor was unthinkable to *any primarch*"

@viridisxiv766 10 месяцев назад

"fulgrim, i bear terrible news, your brother horus has been mortally wounded and lays dying on the planet davin. chaos will use this opportunity to poison his mind, turn him against your father and destroy everything you have built. only you can save him. hurry!" "okay. thanks. maybe you xenos guys arnt so bad after all."

@minhducnguyen9276 10 месяцев назад

"Nah, he'd better be dead"

@Freak69Show 10 месяцев назад

That's what an almost perfect person would do...

@DocWolph 10 месяцев назад

Fulgrim: "Wait! What is [Chaos]?" Eldraad: "You know that weird Xenos sword you have? First, stop listening to it."

@milliondollarmistake 9 месяцев назад

Honestly. Something as simple as "He'll live don't worry, but he'll be infected with a parasite that will affect his mind and eventually turn against your father. If anyone knows how to cure Horus it will be your father." But nah complain about how humanity is fucking up the galaxy for everyone else then tell the obviously distressed giant that his brother's death would be better for the galaxy.

@RecoveringLoLAddict 7 месяцев назад

"How about a trade, fair Primarch?" "Your chaos ridden sword for my pure asuryani daughter. -ElDad, smoothest dad ever.

@JZ0UK 10 месяцев назад

Given Dorne's reaction I'm not sure that there is a way Eldrad could have convinced him lol

@jkgf4671 10 месяцев назад

Yeah, and it was Garro, one of the high ranking Terra-born Space Marines talking to Dorn and not a Xeno, lol

@magnithorsson2154 10 месяцев назад

I feel like Dorn would be above that kind of emotional outburst. With Garro, he's "family" so it's alright to get angry with him and have an outburst. But for an outsider, Dorn's strategic mind would understand such an outburst would only show the enemy that he is vulnerable and can be emotionally manipulated. He'd probably tell his sons to immobilize the Eldar while sending some sons to go and verify then report back. Then probing with further questions or having a staring contest.@@jkgf4671

@durotan5245 10 месяцев назад

In my opinion neither of them are at fault. It would be difficult for any brother to go all in on this warning without seeing Horus first. The love brothers have for each other is powerful.

@LetholdusKaspyr 10 месяцев назад

I think he would have done better with "I apologize for the preamble, but I felt we should understand each other before what comes next. I know you have little reason to trust me or my race. I wanted you to know that I see a way forward for both of our species, to interact politely. However, for that to happen, your father, the Emperor, will have to survive what comes next. He will be betrayed by someone he trusts - by someone YOU trust - and it means the end, for your people and mine."

@shanghigh20 10 месяцев назад

If you talk to somebody rationally and they become hot-headed and don't listen to you it's not your fault

@John-jc3ty 10 месяцев назад

its eldrad's fault for not knowing everything

@GraniteGhost778 10 месяцев назад

I've always felt that Fulgrim and Magnus are the two greatest tragedies of the Heresy. Both could have been loyal, if not for the misteps of circumstances.

@ironduke5058 10 месяцев назад

I'd switch Magnus for Leeman and Fulgrim for the Khan any day. They were two of the toughest loses for humanity in the entire Heresy, only followed by Horus

@jmgonzales7701 Месяц назад

@@ironduke5058 as much as i like fulgrim i wouldnt switch the Khan dude is too based and wise.

@ironduke5058 Месяц назад

@@jmgonzales7701 Nah man people dislike Fulgrim from what he chose and people like Jaghtai because at the end, he chose well and had amazing character development. From a purely objective POV Fulgrim was damn near the epitome of a great Primarch, and pre-chaos blade he was such a bro that had genuine love for humanity. He would've been a monster of an asset to have at the Siege of Terra, the warriors at Istvaan III holding out for like 3 months almost purely because of the defensive and offensive intellect of the Emperor Children is a testament to that. Everyone immediately agreed Saul Tarvitz was to be head commander soon as he landed because he was bloody Emperor's Children in a defensive engagement, it was damn obvious. And as soon as the Emperor's Children's western flank fell due to Lucius' betrayal, everything fell apart. Fulgrim and the Emperor's Children were great, losing them was like losing Sanguinius or another Horus. Don't let what they become over shadow the fact they stood chest height, eye level with the greats. And the White Scars were good, but I can't say the same for Jaghtai

@jmgonzales7701 Месяц назад

@@ironduke5058 Jaghtai was litterally a top tier primarch he was fast and strong, not only that he was the wisest of them all and ofc the most pragmatic.

@ironduke5058 Месяц назад

@@jmgonzales7701 Eh, to each their own I guess

@Salmon_Rush_Die 10 месяцев назад

Fulgrim, coolest diplomat humanity has ever seen. Loses his sh*t almost immediately.

@jmgonzales7701 Месяц назад

well thats the primarchs for you

@cjthebeesknees 10 месяцев назад

The Eldar presentation sure didn’t win any favors but I’m still faulting Fulgrim for his weak will and demeanor.

@jmgonzales7701 Месяц назад

tbh its more like his soul was removed and taken over instead

@Matihood1 10 месяцев назад

What Eldrad should have said when asked by Fulgrim if Horus would live is: "Yes but he will not be the same person as he once was.". Granted, there's no guarantee that his warning would've come through, especially since Fulgrim carried the daemon sword, but it would have had a much greater chance.

@jamricsloe 10 месяцев назад

We all know how matter of fact honest old folks can be. Eldrad is old and not human. Expecting him to understand human emotion would be naive.

@minhducnguyen9276 10 месяцев назад

Not to mention cultural differences. Eldars live very long. They are used to having the patience to listen to the whole story before reacting due to that long lifespan. Much like the trisolarians in the three bodies problem series cannot lie because they literally don't possess the part of the nerve system that facilitates deception because they are partially a hivemind.

@KittyBoy96 10 месяцев назад

Thank the Emperor for our Wolf Lord uploads blessed content 🎉 EDIT: I expected more foresight from a Farseer... smh but definitely nothing out of the ordinary for the Eldar 😂

@Kristian.B.Kristiansen 10 месяцев назад

Trying to blame Eldread for not being able to singlehandedly change written lore-fate and overthrow the will of the Entire Pantheon...

@bodricthered 10 месяцев назад

Says something about the guy that that wasn't entirely inconceivable, the big four would have timewiped it back but would have been hilarious for a few chapters of the heresy

@drefranks691 10 месяцев назад

one of the best parts of this book was after their meeting ends in fulgrim just starts yelling like mad "SLAANESH SLAANESH SLAANESH SLAANESH SLAANESH SLAANESH" the voice actor went hard in the audio book

@jamesdestefano4793 10 месяцев назад

Honestly surprised you didn't included the insuing battle. Maybe one of the best. Or when they see the blade and say he is already corrupted.

@j.celgoog3275 10 месяцев назад

I've seen many videos on YT, complaining that Leman Russ felt into the trap of Horus so easily with Prospero. But come on, can we talk about Fulgrim ?

@UncleMikeDrop 10 месяцев назад

Still, there would have been no whispers to slip through the proverbial cracks if not for the Laer Blade.

@Matihood1 10 месяцев назад

Good point. I think that even if Eldrad had handled the conversation better, it still would've caused a lot of distress in Fulgrim (understandably so) which the Laer blade could and definitely would exploit.

@sovereigneverblight5825 10 месяцев назад

Classic Eldary diplomacy.

@RaimoKangasniemi 10 месяцев назад

Fulgrim should indeed have gone to the Emperor with the warning, not to Horus. That was his duty and would have been the right decision to make. That was not Eldrad's fault.

@mcmarkmarkson7115 10 месяцев назад

Would the Emperor believe it? Emprah: how do you know Fulgrim: Alien told me Emprah: Mh kay, what's with that chaos blade btw Fulgrim: What chaos blade? Emprah: 😶

@RaimoKangasniemi 10 месяцев назад

@@mcmarkmarkson7115 The Emperor might not believe it, but would certainly investigate. And at least it might stop Fulgrim from falling.

@pyotrbagration2438 10 месяцев назад

If he did his duty he would have killed Eldrad on the spot. Consorting with xenos at the height of the Great Crusade is a big no-no. Mainly the reason why I ignore the entire plot with the Alpha Legion and the Cabal.

@ironduke5058 Месяц назад

@@pyotrbagration2438 There are xenos the Imperium consorted with, they were few but they were there at the time of the Crusade. I forget which but I think Master of Mankind mentions that some xenos are in a council thing and are protected by the Imperium. By Xenos standards, Eldar were and still are considered to be "Not so bad"

@bequakynskagroupie3751 10 месяцев назад

Fulgrim almost merked Horus out of the sky.

@elxr9434 7 месяцев назад

Heres what wouldve stopped the heresy Fulgrim: HORRUS IS DYING?!!! WHERE HOW?!!! WILL HE LIVE??!!! Eldrad: he will live only if you stop chaos from taking his soul if you fail he will die Boom heresy prevented

@dennisbendixen7138 4 месяца назад

If Fulgrim had gone to the Emperor, then the Emperor would probadly have done something to Fulgrim due to he would surely sense the corruption starting to fester, the demon in the lear blade and that he had be convinced by an Eldar. That would probadly have saved him. But Horus was beyond saving by then. But it was the Eldar guys mistake here. He should have been more thoughtfull

@DocWolph 10 месяцев назад

Yeah, this was a conversation Eldrad should have had with the Emperor. The way we (sort of) know how the Emperor felt about his sons, "Horus for the sake of everyone might be better off dead", might hit the Emperor like sound advice. Of course, he'd go verify it at least. Whether Horus would be dead as a result is unclear. Some think all the bad that happens in WH40K is part of the Emperor's plan (seriously flawed clairvoyance) and so helping Horus live would somehow prevent something worse. But given what we know of the Horus Heresy, that seems wildly unlikely. In fact, Sagittarius A+ would have to turn itself inside out for the Heresy to be remotely as bad as it was because Horus was the prime motivator, after Lorgar got the wheels turning.

@theodoremccarthy4438 8 месяцев назад

Yeah, Eldrad screwed up here, but it’s important to contextualize that error. Eldrad was no doubt a prodigy, but he was likely quite young by Eldar standards at the time of the Great Crusade. I’ve seen him described as “the most powerful Eldar born after the fall” and the Great Crusade was launched not too long after the fall. Eldrad was at best a couple hundred years old at the time of this meeting, which would make him some what analogous to a human in their late twenties. As remember that by Eldar standards the Fall had basically just happened. They were basically a post apocalyptic society mostly focus3d on their own survival. Understood in That context it’s not surprising Eldrad fumbled this play.

@warren2717warren 10 месяцев назад

Don’t forget, elves ( that’s what they are ) are supposed to be arrogant by nature so his warning would never sound sincere

@UncleMikeDrop 10 месяцев назад

Ignorance of the Primordial Annihator is to blame.

@AthosJosue 10 месяцев назад

Fulgrim was already corrupted and condemned at that point. His great mistake was taking the Laer Sword.

@dfailsthemost 9 месяцев назад

Eldrad should've had a better plan. He should have said that Horus had traitors in his legion - not that Horus was a traitor.

@harryallen1175 9 месяцев назад

Didn't the eldar want horus to win so that the humans are wiped out and take out chaos with them?

@timecorn 10 месяцев назад

From what I read in this book Fulgrim was pretty corrupted by the sword at this point. Horus didn't convince him either. Fulgrim was so unhindged by the time he got there that he needed no convincing

@ironduke5058 Месяц назад

@@timecorn He almost blew Horus' fleet out of the sky after sneaking up on him though. If it wasn't for the blade the Heresy could've ended right there

@zacharymassey6487 10 месяцев назад

I think Eldrad made the mistake of both assuming they know about chaos, and how he dealt with fulgrim. However, I think Eldrad and the Eldar have had and will continue to have issues with humanity because the elders version of death before slanesh while a bit upsetting it wasn't permanent, now they have an objective as a race entire, when they die its in trying to further that cause (remember Eldar emotions are far stronger than humans), but I think their extinction looming overwhelms the loss of one or even hundreds of their people, even if they are lovers).

@zacharymassey6487 10 месяцев назад

From all the info I've devoured over the years, I've never seen anything to indicate that humans and Eldar have different emotions, stronger but the same. Eldar may have more ways to communicate them but I don't think that truly matters. I think Eldar since their fall have had to detach themselves from emotions, also are the Eldar even aware that they all consider each other as brothers? Eldrad almost makes it seems like he's under the impression they are fellow war lords and probably even friends not family

@jamricsloe 10 месяцев назад

I mean, who holds onto a swords that whispers to you?