I think it says a lot about the Grigri, that 99% of the marketing for the Neox is Petzl saying _"you have to belay properly with this device."_ AFAIC, you should be belaying properly anyways. A Grigri with smoother slack payout is _exactly_ what I've been looking for, so 🤷
When the GriGri was introduced back in the early 90s, Petzls marketig was really along the lines of "you don't need to belay anymore, this device will do everything it for you". The fine print was very different, but the marketing was much louder. It took a few accidents and the guys at Gaswerk Gym to develop a good belay mode for the GriGri and then a very long time to educate users. I think they are determined not to repeat this mistake again.
i understand what you are saying, but i personally am looking for a device that works exactly when belayer makes a mistake or is hurt (for example by rockfall). I understand that the semi-auto devices won't save you 100% of the time, but if i have to choose device that works 50% of the time compared to device that works 80% of the time, i am inclided to pick the one that works 80% of the time
Great video! I appreciated the comments about the different optimal belaying technique from the gri gri, and how it performs in “guide mode” for a multi pitch. Pretty much answered all my questions! Now I just have to wait until they’re in stock, lol.
I always hated the Grigri and I always stood with classic tubular devices. First one I learned belaying was with a simple Petzl Reverso. Then, I have the ATC Pilot from Black Diamond (amazing for thinner ropes than those in my gyms) The ClickUP+ from Climbing Technology (shouldn't have bought that) The new in the family was the Wild Country Revo in March 2024 because I was tired of the thicker ropes in the gym that cause me many problems in the ATC Pilot. It was good, better, but not yet what I wanted. And I got my Neox two days ago that seems to filled this gap. Didn't tried it yet because I injured myself and can't belay for now, I'll need to wait a few more days. But for indoor lead climbing (which is the primary target for the device) and the use of a classic tubular style belaying technique, I'm 100% on it. I want a device that pay slack quickly and can lower the climber without much effort. I do not ever let go the brake hand of the rope, no matter the devices I've used in the past (even Grigri) so it's not an issue for me. I'm still convinced tubular style devices are the ones that teaches you good belaying technique rather than the Grigri... I've seen sooooo many people just let go the brake and talk to their friends without giving a shit because the Grigri locked itself....
I think ppl complained about the fact that grigri COULD cause bad habits compared to an ATC. When I think what they are really trying to do here is force ppl to use good habits when belaying. I think this is the child of the grigri and ATC. It’s got the DNA of both
I agree that a left-handed one would also address some needs. Neox is focussing on lead climbing - so if you wonder whether on should switch from an GriGri to Neox. GriGri is still good but if you want to go for extra comfort and speed (and so also for safety), Neox is a really fun to use. I love it for its smoothness. When climbing, I was even able to pull out my rope without noticing it. Maybe drop a line to Petzl with your needs.
Tbh, its a far superior belaying experience than the grigri. It's essentially tube-style belaying, with assisted braking. It doesn't get much easier than this imo.
Of course people should belay properly, but if people would always follow this advice, they could belay with a tuber. This is a lot of additional danger for questionable gain.
8:10 "Braking hand always on the rope" proceeds to hold the brake side of the rope with a two fingers 🤦♂. Please, if you're going to educate people, do it right. This very much disqualifies the advise you gave a couple minutes prior... A couple pointers: 1. Holding the hand with the thumb facing the device (pronated position), will be safer, as we are stronger in this position. 2. When grabbing the brake side with the secondary hand momentarily to adjust the braking hand. Use a full hand!
100% - Thank you for vocalizing that none of the content we publish is educational. While there may be some insight gained, all of these videos should be considered marketing material by the brands. Although we do our best to get real answers to interesting questions, ultimately the brands view this content as a sales tool, not an educational resource.
What is your design for a device capable of intelligently determining if a climber is falling or just requiring requiring slack? This is hard enough, now add in it would need to do this perfectly in all situations, 100% of the time and be infallible. No device has a brain, or eyes to know what is going on. We always need to tell the device what to do, and we 'communicate' with it via the rope.
@@ercle88 technically Revo can do that based on the speed of the rope, adding the same mechanism to Neox's wheel would be ideal, but I suppose it would be way overcomplicated at that point
@@Petrovjan I have the Revo and I'm changing it for the Neox because paying fast slack can put the system on lock and descending fast is 90% of the time going to lock the device. when your climber wants to rest on the route, you have to work with him to move your hands on the device and lock it (which became a bit dangerous because you don't have the same amount of force on the brake hand)
