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Great episode! My wife runs in the 3, it’s about time for her to need a new pair. Will definitely share! Anyone who’s looking for shoe reviews and guidance, this is the place to go!
As someone who only runs in a Saucony daily trainer for everything, adding the Pro 4 to the rotation and having two shoes to do everything seems like a perfect match. Amazing video as usual!:)
I liked this "face off" style episode. I'm a dedicated Speed, Shift, Triumph wearer, and super sad the Shift has been phased out. I don't need more plated shoes; I want the similar rocker/ride to a Speed without a (nylon or carbon or magic surface) plate.
This is an indispensable running pod. Love how you guys switch up the format to get different takes on the shoes we’re all considering. Loved the Pro 3, and this’ll help me decide whether to stick with the brand on race day this year.
This is a really awesome conversation - I tried the pro 4 in store and my immediate intuition was no way - listening to this potentially confirms but also makes me think I should maybe give them a go. So much to think about and I love this conversation. Y'all my favs!
Great episode I’m a new runner, my very first marathon is in October Chicago marathon. I like watching and learning more with doctor of running. I just got the endorphin speed 4 I love them
Enjoyed this back-and-forth! Great to hear differing opinions on the same show... Enjoyed the Endorphin Pro 3 but didn't get a great feel trying on the Pro 4. Keep up the great work!
I got the Endorphin pro 4 a couple of weeks ago and it's a great shoe for slower runners on race day and for comfortable long runs. The stable platform, the upper and durable outsole really makes it a great buy.
I have found that Matt’s reviews are a match to my personal experience like no other reviewer I have found. So I am always interested in hearing his take before buying a new shoe.
I have a pair of the speed 4. It’s good. I wish I would have gotten more pairs of the speed 2s. Such a fast and durable shoe. Unrelated…I’m pretty excited for the streakfly 2. It looks like a striped down vaporfly.
I had a chance to do a short run in the Pro 4 immediately after running 6 miles in the Speed 4. The pop off in the Pro 4 astounded me. I’m looking forward to picking up a pair. Enjoyed this podcast.
Great episode! I appreciate when reviewers have different opinions. It reminds me that we all have our own experiences and we can take bits and pieces from each reviewer to build a picture. I don't think I have found any particular reviewer (in all the interwebs) that I most align with in shoe preferences, especially at my slower running speeds and feet characteristics, so I am always trying to absorb all the different perspectives. Thanks, team!
Loved this episode! In regards to knowing yourself, the NB Rebel V4 works extremely well for me, but does that mean the Elite V4 would be a good racing shoe for me? I only ask because the shape/geometry of the shoes are so similar.
I loved the pro 3. Feels like a trampoline but the 4 feels closer to me how Matt described. It’s comfy but my foot just kind of sank in and didn’t give the return spring. I was curious if it is more a material or geometry thing
Totally agreed that every runners have different biomechanic and preferences when it comes to running shoes best fit their feet and running pattern, just need to identify particular shoes reviewer that best fit to your current condition and a meh shoes for one person can be a wow shoes for you! Thanks for differing opinions on Endorphine Pro 4 episode!
Even though it's not necessarily related to the topic: my achilles tendinitis has got better in the past month thanks to your tips, Matt, related to heavy resistance training and rehab! You truly help the running community folks, keep it up.
I haven't tried any modern super shoes yet. I feel like the Pro 3/4 might be a good fit for me except I've had issues with sizing on Saucony (and kind imof all shoes at the moment). I think I've found out I just need to go up to 13.
Love this format of comparisons from two different running styles. I use the Endo Pro 3 for races so I’ve been really interested in the 4. I had a chance to do a quick test in the 4 and really liked it, outside of a little heel slip due to the stretchy laces. I’m may eventually get a pair and swap the laces for that perfect fit.
Good conversation, thanks folks. It kind of echoes my partner and I's conversation about the EP4. Neither one of us loved the 3, I loved the Elite and she did not. Interestingly to me, she loves the Endorphin Pro 4, I like it better than the 3 but I still prefer the Elite. Maybe it's the elastic panel, I don't tend to do well with them but it just felt so stiff to me, didn't feel the rocker much (which I live for) so when I finished a run in it, it was fairly meh, but she finishes a run and loved it. Just interesting to see how two folks can be very different about the same shoe like you pointed out
Hopefully I will get to demo the Endorphin Pro 4 soon. The last couple of super shoe demos at my LRS were cancelled (Mizuno Wave Rebellion Pro 2 & Alphafly 3). Have the NB SC Elite 4 coming on Tuesday if I get there before the other guy that wears size 10.
I have run in the Pro 3, would love to try the Pro 4. May have to give up running for another couple of weeks. Bad ankle sprain, going to the Doctor (not of the running type) tomorrow.
Interesting episode. It seems like shoe feel is a very subjective measure. I’m a wide footed mid/forefoot striker, liked the feel of the Pro on a short trial run, did not feel too uncomfortable on my foot. So many brands change their shoes, you cannot assume next edition will be the same as the current one. Need a new shoe, maybe the SEP 4. Thanks for the contest.
Funny how the same shoe can elicit such different reactions. Daily trainers are one thing, but super shoes are even more individual. I have to be quite methodical transitioning to different super shoes/plated trainers.
Great segment! I haven’t made it to the Pro’s yet but still use the Speed 2 for races. It’s the runshield version though and it’s weird how it’s the same but also different than regular version. I had pain under my big toe with the regular version but the no issues with the runshield version and feels softer with just an upper change that still doesn’t get too warm! Wonder if the Pros will have a runshield version too…
I enjoyed the discussion on rocker placement vs MTP joint location. I was recently thinking of this with shoe length (i.e. should be going half size up to an 11 for extra room up front, or risk my toes getting beat up for things to maybe line up more as they are supposed to). I didn't think to see where rocker, plate or other shoe geometry lands relative to my foot and chose shoes based on this. It is something I will have to start looking at, especially with expensive race shoes that I don't have the opportunity to try before I buy outside of an odd demo run here and there.
I'd love more shoe reviewers to put up images of the worn soles from their shoes. It's one of the easiest ways to get a feel for whether a certain reviewer is potentially close to your style.
Andrea, could you help me? I have found that you have the same landing area and each shoe you recommend works perfectly for me. For my next marathon I was between Hoka Rocket x2 and Asics Sky Paris, but with this review the Endorphine Pro come into play. What would you recommend me? Buying all 3 would be very expensive haha.
Love the early rocker in the pro 3! Sounds like the 4 was moved a little later and sharper? You mentioned matching the rocker with your metatarsals. I wonder if ankle dorsiflexion ROM also plays a role. I have very limited ROM here and have a hard time with stiff late rockered shoes as it makes me feel like I’m wasting energy “climbing out of the shoe.”
Good question. Most of my easy paces are 7:30 to 9 minute per feel. Felt fine there but was really best at 5:50-7 min pace (more marathon e pace for me) and felt forced at 5:40 and below (10k and 5k pace) -Matt
Amazing content and analysis. I wish the endorphin pro could work for me, but I had a weird issue where I felt like the heel portion of the insole was too narrow. I was standing on the raised edges. Really weird.
I'm sorry if I disagree with Matt regarding insoles. The quest for comfort should be always prioritized. Wearing the Pro 3 at home for 1h (it's my usual test fit when I purchase a different pair of running shoes) has given me hot spots and I wasn't even running. The Pro 2 (and Pro +) have previously fitted me as pair of slippers. I've purchased the same insoles of the Pro 2 and "magically", comfort wasn't an issue anymore and I enjoyed the ride for 750km. Videos are available on my channel.
Andrea, I have done a 2.5 mile swim, 116 mile bike rideand of course marathons. Just not at the same time/same day. There must be a name for those of us with those Iron credentials. Maybe a prize for thst: maybe a NB Beacon when NB gets smart and brings back the Beacon! (First time I saw a review, I thought it was NB Fresh Foam BACON).
I've been using the EP4 for 100 km, and still struggling to find good thing about this shoes except the upper. Too firm for me - decide to use my 700km AP3 as my go-to-shoes 4weeks before race
I've still only tried the Pro 1!! But I love it!! I'm not picky haha. I actually prefer the Speeds for more runs. That being said, I haven't done real workouts in a while. I can't wait to try all the new models!!
The Pro 4 is really slow for me and doesn’t propel me forward like the previous versions of the shoe. I wish I would have stocked up on the Pro 3’s but it’s too late now. The ASICS Metaspeed Edge Paris is my replacement for the Pro 3 as my PR/racing shoe.
I've only just got my saucony pro 4. I ran a 5 mile run just to test the shoe to make sure nothing crazy happened. Today I ran 21 long run in horrible weather with constant rain and wind. Shoe felt very comfortable and light. I'd describe the feel as a slight squish then a rebound off the tarmac. Softer than an adidas pro 3. More stable in the mid foot than the adidas pro 3. I could definitely feel the speedroll working with a nice soft landing then a roll to the toes. It definitely wants to go faster. I'll be aiming for 8.30 mp for marathon as a guide to how I run. Definitely didn't feel any instability.
Nice review guys! I’m a current Speed 4 user and love really those, looking to try my first supershoe soon. Considering these, and also the adidas adios pro 3. How would you say they compare? Both seem to be really good cushioned marathon supershoes. Also just wondering which out of the two would you say would be faster for 5km/ 10km distances? (I saw you mention adios pro 3 isn’t great for the shorter distances). Cheers!
I find finding the right shoe is difficult. I have a short fat/wide foot. I tried to bring the size down and go the wider size. And it was terrible. So I stick to my comfortable size. Even though they're a bit long. And it's funny my most 'comfortable' shoe tends to make my foot ache after a while. (Triumph 21) foot mechanics is a tricky one , still tryna figure it out.
So, Matt, when you say you just couldn’t get the desired response from the midsole, my first thought was “peba,” or, superstack. I’m probably way outnumbered, but not a fan. Even the blends, like the Rebel 4, it’s like slogging thru pudding - and the durability is dismal - and I’m only 128lbs. I know you can’t argue the science behind it, but I prefer critical or cmeva, by far. Question: Did you ever feel the same lack of responsiveness in say, the adios 4? …or 5?
I only had a brief try in this shoe amd really wanted to line it. However I didn't feel the roll. It just felt like i was on the heel/midfoot without activating the forefoot. It was bouncy but I just sank back into the heel.
Interesting. I feel the same way with the ProV4. Seems like I have to work much harder to get the speed I got in the V3. What is another shoe that might work, other than the old V3?
The episode is very interesting. Not due to the pro 4, but due to the way you analyse the differences between you as runners and between shoes. I suggested for another group of shoe reviewers to mention some characteristics before the review..maybe age, pbs for some distances, weigth and stability needs. This might help me as a runner understand better the reviewer's perspective in respect to me. Simple example: you speak of maraton pace and easy pace. If you run a marathon in 3h and I run in 5.. and maybe your slow pace in 4:30min/km and my slow pace is 6:30 / km, your perspective is less applicable for my personal case. I wish Saucony would produce again the Speed 2. I would pay the same price as the 4. I would even pay 10$ more because the speed 2 is vastly superior. Maybe a business idea for the guys in Saucony - and other brands.
Wondering I run in Altra for about 2 -3 weeks than switch to asic Superblast because my calves /Achilles get a little sore because the Superblast takes the stress off my feet
After Andrea mentioned that version 4 runs like version 1, I ruled out the pro 4 as the pro 1 is my least favorite shoe of the last 5 years. The rest of the podcast pretty much confirmed that this is likely NOT the shoe for my gait.
