Interesting the you suppose that you*can* observe yourself which of course you cannot. I cannot observe myself but I *can*-if only by moments let go enough to consent to *be_observed*. See Views NEW YORK, MARCH 3, 1924 Page 88 Self-observation is very difficult.
We are the world, so we must be as it. Insanity, cruelty, selfishness, tyrants, ambition, jealousy, control, mechanicity, and on. This is identification - for each movement of the world, we have a position. Thanks for the video.
The one source of all psychological suffering is Self-forgetting: identification with the temporal/finite. The remedy is: Self-observation exposes negative reactive patterns. Self-remembering (being aware of being aware) collapses them.
"Is the universe out to get you again?" my wife used to ask me at the end of the day. I particularly hated the winter. I tried hypnosis to get to the root of it and we stumbled on a past life that had given me the emotional charge of identification about the cold. Now, I joy a little bit to be alive whatever the weather.
"Guilty as charged"speaks volumes, you really_do* suppose you have a choice, don't you?-or one of you does.The ideas use 'identified' Buddhism says attached', *Why* do I identify? It's not a sin or a crime and the ideas are not a priest nor a policeman, but a certain something - what? makes them that way.
The idea of *that* being don't hit me mister, I'm hitting my self? what one wonders was the purpose of whoever posted this bit about identification? To teach or to swagger? I once saw outside a little church in the wop wops a sign reading: YOU MAY HAVE YOUR REASONS, BUT GOD KNOWS YOUR MOTIVES ***** Beelzebub p.1065: “I wish to point out to you one great ‘secret’ of their psyche, namely, I wish to point out to you only one particularity of theirs which, if you know how to profit by it,might create in each one of them the same effect in their manifestations about which Ahoon spoke. “If you will act upon them through this same particularity, then you will not only be on very good terms withthem all, but even, if you wish, you will be able, knowing this ‘secret’ of their psyche, fully to ensure your tranquiland happy existence there both as regards ‘money’ necessarily required there, as well as other conveniences, the taste and blissful significance of which our dear Teacher expressed by the words ‘Roses, Roses.’ “You, no doubt, my boy, have already guessed that by this secret of their psyche I refer just to this same, as I called it, ‘psycho-organic-need’ of theirs *to ‘teach others*sense’ and ‘to *put them on the right road.’* ***** ‘Ekh, Brother! Here on the Earth if you speak the truth you’re a great fool, whereas if you wriggle with your soul you are only a “scoundrel,” though also a big one. So it is best of all to do nothing, but just recline on your divan and learn to sing like the sparrow that had not yet turned into an American canary. I don't care what anyone says about Giorgivanic, I could kiss the fcuker just for making me laugh
From where do you creatures get these weird ideas? Do you seriously suppose you could become a grownup man just for the wishing? Time goes by at it's own pace chum and you cannot accelerate it. hy does that dreadful creature with that ghastly whining lower class accent read out tranches of Fragments?Does she suppose that people cannot read the fcuking book for themselves? I suppose the poor creature simply cannot help it.
Im from India and since my childhood I'm hearing about the importance of non-identification in life. Many masters/gurus talks about the importance of this non-identification of mind/body/intellect. Our Hindu script Bagavatgita talks about this wonderfully. Mastering the body,mind and intellect or going beyond intelligence is the only solution to have a permanent bliss. Otherwise we can only taste a bit of it. It won't stay long. If one can't control his sense organs, thoughts and intelligence he will be always like a floating wood in the sea always goes up and down. Instead we must learn to be like a light house in the sea. Stand firm and allows the waves to hit and trashed away.
Deepak Vyravana after reading your profound words I can't help but suggest you to look up Heartfulness meditation at www.heartfulness.com. I request you not to consider this system as yet another among others. This is unique. Do read about it and I'm sure you'll be impressed to try it out. Thanks.
@@CAVEDATA Yeah I agree. Its not the destination to reach it's the journey. "Pure consciousness" is the ultimate truth the ultimate reality. And our instincts should not master us rather we should free from it.
You identify with not identifying until one is no longer Conscious of not identifying. At that point a person may be too awake to deal with regular people. Life leads to pain Pain leads to thankfulness Thankfulness leads to reason Reason is love. Psychco!ogical pain needs to be balanced with physical pain.
i find it interesting. all this contemplation of self and being(s) or i's and what I really am as a man etc..his interpretations with regards to our connection to the Sun are actually coming true somewhat in science now adayz. very kool.
yes indeed. do u remember when he said (i think it was in Beelzebub's tales) that the two main aspects about the sun, namely that it is hot and emitting light are both false and that scientists have not even discovered this yet? in fact i have seen scientists now starting to talk about it. its quite fascinating.
Yes, and what of that second fragment broke free from the earth, Anulios? They are now saying they have discovered a second moon in orbit about the earth. Though it's path is of a different nature then the moon's orbit.
The first one is an Armenian one, the second one is a German one. He traveled alot. And I know because I am from Austria, I recognize these passports. Clearly german.
People identify as free -- I've always identified as being shy. Also, just to note, in this clip the woman mentions having two in him, but in Zen Buddhism they teach about non dualism, so many teachings contradict each other.
Contradictory maybe just in appearance? Buddhist teachings say that there is a way out of suffering. Suffering comes misidentification with the 'little me' vs the 'deep 'I. Same self with or without the veil of ignorance.
all teachings contradict each other, make no mistake about that. the only solution is to stop comparing teachings. it will only confuse and paralyze you. if you are really are a serious seeker, dive deep into one teaching until u get real results. then you will start to see where the different teachings come together.
Imo we have multiple personalities, one day we feel motivated, the other we feel sad or lazy etc. The thing is we can't become "individuals" as long we don't unidentify from all these phases, so we keep being the slaves of all these illusionary states. Now all this is good and all but is just intellectual theory and it helps as a sort of support in our search for the truth but is far from being what really gets you progress, the path I chose is meditation, it works as an experiencial wisdom far superior than intellectual theories, and absolutely necessary if you want to keep digging for the ultimate truth of things, I myself am still far away from the goal but have already felt huge results, I wish you good luck in your journey :)
We are far more advanced now a days in terms of psychology and the quimical efects (corticoids) of the negative emotions caused by identification. The most elegant contributions of Gurdjieff, Nicoll AND (capitals) SIR BENNETT , is to set human beings as the project that is able to mix the 3 forces (law of 3) by consciousness and no identification, showing the meaning of our creation....That's awesome...
@@vhawk1951kl those who look for the improvement of their beings. First, those who study (exoterics), then, those who practice (mesoterics) and finally, those who are transformed by the work (esoterics)... 🙏🏻
@@CT2507 about the scientific proofs of the results of certain practices upon the human body and the brain functions....I'm not saying that humans are in that position as a modern society....
hindered you in what particular? What was "thinking of (whatever you suppose)" myself" to be? What exactly are you calling " thinking"as in "today I thought of myself as "I" " What o you suppose " thinking " to be"? "For an exact exchange exact language is necesary". AS of what else might(whatever you mean by, but have no idea)I might it have thought of itself.? What e-x-a-c-t-l-y are you*calling* " I"? Can a mirror reflect itself? One fairly simple apppraoch is to point to or touch whatever ids calling iyselF "I" One approsch is to keep it as simple as possible and *away_from( the head, which is a dreaming mschine and can understand nothing. I have the anchor of sensation that prevents me from floating of ay with the fairies. the head will dreamin if you do not give it something to do. It is jolly useful or invaluable but it will dream and call whatever goes on it anything you like but everything- *noexceptions* that goes on in it is dreaming, so that is the associative function some call l it the " thinking" centre but it is nothing of the sort
Identification can be a complex state, not always leading to mono-minded absorption to the exclusion "the greater wood." Consciousness and its slippery undercurrents cannot be so easily cut and dried. Doubtless G was well aware of this and perhaps the stark contrasts he presents - asleep/not asleep - were more about teaching, getting the point across, and not so much considered analysis of the nature of the actual thing itself (identification). To the contemporary listener though these types of perfunctory statements might come off as trite or even a bit high handed. What played well to the impressionable seekers of the early to mid 1900's - when all of this was very new and even revolutionary - might not play so well today.
lol... it sounds as if u are totally in your intellect and have understood nothing of what Gurdjieff taught. read Ouspensky's "The Fourth Way" to get a clearer understanding of Gurdjieffs ideas. the asleep/not asleep is an experienceable fact and not a metaphor.
@@CT2507 I dont believe the work teaches us to judge others who are single centered. If he is primarily in his intellectual center then of course he is going to intellectualize G's words. Remember yourself before posting. Have a good night brother
While I remain cautioius on the subject, psychedelics-assisted pysychotherapy appears to be most appropriate for the vivid laying bare of the identifiCATION as an automatic psychological process that needs to be placed under greater observation and modulation. Beautiful passage,
Gurdjieff has a note on the use of psychedelics to get enlightenment. It's in the talk of the 7 types of man. You can skip to the 5th type by using psychedelics but once you come out of the high you revert back. To get to 5th permanently you have to go step by step ie not using psychedelics but by doing the work
Alan Watt always remarked that many will fight and die trying to defend the NWO never knowing that that which they were trying to protect was never theirs to begin with
@@omalone1169 The more "you" dig in the mind, the more confusion "you" will find. Let's trust at least from time to time.ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-iHcxkmwBOJY.html
I'm identifying with a stupid phone that won't work properly and I'm identifying with that being who wants to throw it at the wall. How to disidentify? Need help now. I am serious. Please be quick ..
Seemingly, or it is said by those that met him, the ideas or the teaching of Giorgivanic is not to be found in words attributed to him which cam only give you some vague approximation of it because he *was* his teaching and so this mouse supposes so it must be for all messengers from above -By the time t became words about words the essence of it must needs have been diluted beyond recognition. It won't belong before t the work becomes just another bloody religion and every uppeny hapeny mouse(nothing and nobody) will be an experts on it and know as-is said Aaalll* about that. or so this mouse supposes It is not just this mouse but everybody and any body that hss merely walkred past a bookshop that once sold a book in which the name Gurdjief appeared, that supposes himself to be an expert on all things Gurdjieff, so for them, that -is-the-en-of-that and gone is the vivifyingnes of the search, or - as Krishnamurti put it in an exchange betwen him and Needleman(to be found on me-me-me-me-me-tube:" The state of *Not_Knowing *Is*Intelligence Ah, yes, I dentification, I know Aaalll* about that. *Of_Course* I say *I* to every mechanical and automatic reaction of the functions because I*Am* attached to them. Th idea that I might not is in what-is-and-cannot-be-different, fanciful " Man has but two possibilities-*Not_more*: Eat or *be* eaten."
PERSON, noun per'sn. [Latin persona; said to be compounded of per, through or by, and sonus, sound; a Latin word signifying primarily a mask used by actors on the stage.]
There is no evil beyond our limits...polarization is a low world vision....we should be thankful for having negative chaos....otherwise, no need for observation, neither any possible transformation...
I agree with Kozy. Evil originates in the believe of a separate self, the ego. It is the forbidden fruit, the believe I am self in a world that is other than me. Only an ego is able to cause but also to identify evil. 😘
@@CT2507 I'm talking about the limits of our position in the worlds embedded on the ray of creation....we are very far from the source ( world number 1) and in a specific world the polarization appears and takes place...but above that there is no yes or no, that's why is necessary to put ours "yes and no" to fight against each others....a kind of exercise for our emotional center which is achieved by self observation.
