Half the plotlines in the series should have been abandoned so I think the latter list is longer. There is so much meandering and wheel spinning in this series.
It always annoys me how Preston just writes off prophecy as BS even when we see it come true multiple times, like Dany seeing visions of the Red Wedding. Melisandre's chapter even tell us she does see things in the flames, she just isn't sure what they mean and guesses as best she can. Prophecy is UNRELIABLE and easy to MISUNDERSTAND, not just BS.
but theres so many known characters in the story who have ways of influencing peoples dreams and sending them fake visions using glass candles, the weirwood net, and probably other methods
There's a level of The Matrix's "interpretation" of the future in the series tbh. Or atleast what you would consider prophecy. Those events you described weren't so much premonition as they were just VERY likely too occur. The Matrix explains this prophecy as "We cannot see past the choices we don't understand or haven't already made." Dany's vision of the Red Wedding was EXTREMELY likely too occur. Old Walder Frey is untrustworthy and its made clear as day from the get go. Melisandre's visions can be explained similarly and kind of operates as glass candles do. Seeing distant things through distant flames. The ghost of high heart, Quaithe, Maggy the Frog, the Undying, the Green Grace, etc. They all fall into this category. They are merely seeing the results of choices already made by currently living characters and those choices likely outcomes. It isn't prophecy or premonition. It's just as the Matrix puts it "looking at the world without time." It's almost like just making an educated guess but with a sprinkle of magic. The ONLY visions in the series I put any weight in are Bran's. But they also are likely just a higher tier version of the mechanics described. Simply because the Weirwoods have been around longer than all the aforementioned characters. So in a sense Preston is right about prophecy but he's dead wrong about there not being any "magic" in the series. George legitimately said verbatim that the seasons on Planetos are governed by magic when someone proposed binary/Three Body Problem theories to him. It's VERY limited in the series and maybe 3 characters at most are magic. 4 if you include Qyburn and we get more on what he did to Gregor in Winds.
1:25:49 What makes it not make sense is Benioff saying “what we see is the end of the Dothraki” in the post episode interview, which means he couldn’t follow the plot of his own show.
Daenarys went from hanging on to Drogon for dear life to expertly controlling all three dragons in battle with zero points between the two states. Not really a dropped plot so much as a bizarre plot hole.
THIS! I don't know why more people talk about this, is ridiculous, I feel like they put more emphasis on Drogon being rebel than in the books and it was a cool thing, then they just completely ignored and suddenly Dany and him were one, and THEN she controlled the other 2 perfectly in the episode of the battle of the bastards and so on, another reason that episode sucked
I am not a huge dragonfan but they were butchered somehow in the show, it was just bizare I was so confused how people just accepted it made everything super boring.
Most of what was described were plot holes or butchered storylines, not dropped plots. A dropped plot would mean that a storyline had been setup, but was inexplicably abandoned and never finished. Poorly executed or incoherent plots/storylines would have been a more apt description.
Sweetrobin's glow up actually is implied, if not explained. Littlefinger gave him to Royce to raise, and Royce was trying to train him to be a typical lord (he's shown practicing archery). It's not a huge assumption that Royce left him in capable hands who continued his upbringing, and a few years later (each season is a year in HBO GOT) he's well adjusted.
People grow up when they get older, we all experience this as we age from a kid to being an awkward teenager to a 20 something. Anakin went from being an annoying kid to an annoying and entitled teenager to a grown man and husband in three movies as he grew up
Preston: "Great f***ing job protecting the Neck, Howland! Victarion took it!" Sometimes I feel like Preston either forgets what happened in the books, or just outright lies to support his points. Namely, Victarion sailed up the Fever and attacked Moat Cailin from the north to completely bypass the Neck and the crannogmen. Not a whole lot Howland Reed can do in that situation; but once he gets a chance to react, his crannogmen make the ironborn occupiers' lives _miserable_ af.
Sounds right in my ears; I’d say that one of the prevailing characteristics of conspiracy theorists is that they tend to “bend” some data in their head because they want their theories to fit together so much. Sometimes that only works by flat out forgetting some things, changing facts or overlooking the improbability / implausibility of events. Preston, in my personal judgement, does fall into that category of people, lol.
So many of these are just: violence solves it, simple and uncomplicated. George must hate that. Dany? Just kill her. Night King? Arya's training is a good thing, not messed up at all. Mel's mysteriousness? She died in war. Cersei's pregnancy prophecy? Died violently. Jaime's redemption? Died violently. Starks all win because they have a respawned army/convenience. Glad it's a superhero movie where good guy violence outdoing bad guy violence saved the day.
Daario Naharis, was probably killed about a week after dany left for westeros. The remaining masters most likely offered the second sons a very good price to betray Daario, and they took it. The second sons are sell swords after all. You can never trust sell swords.
I think the NK touching Aria in person shouldn’t necessarily leave a mark; Bran was touched specifically in a vision…so I think it has something to do with being more is a spell on Bran, the NK doesn’t need to mark Aria
Danny doesn't know Jaime wore gold armour and had a gold hand because she has been in Essos? If she doesn't even know that, it must mean she hasn't even bothered to gather any intel before launching her invasion... Rather stupid.
The consequences? Sounds racist. What are the consequences of letting people live in a land that just saved from extinction? Whatever they are, they would be deserved, because at this point the Dothraki have as much of a right to live in Westeros as anyone else considering they saved the land from becoming mindless zombies in the Army of the Dead.
@@kennyhudson9201 Yeah maybe if you're talking about the show, that happened, they basically helped save the world and through that should secure a right to live where they want, but even if that were the case in the books you think they'd just forget their culture and tradition, the way their society works and their overall morals that are a result of their culture and they way they have seemingly always lived? And just live the Westerosi way while abiding by all the laws and rules of the lords of the land?
@@ricebix Yes, I think their culture and traditions already changed when they bowed to Dany...a woman with dragons. I mean, their culture and tradition was following a bunch of different men. She burned all those leaders and they bowed and followed her and did what she said, including sailing to Westeros. They already changed their culture and tradition going to and living in Dragonstone and Winterfell, FOR MONTHS, without just killing and raping everyone. Again, it feels racist, because the only things focused on for the Dothraki as traits are the ones that try to deem them to uncivilized to coexist with others. They proved they can live, coexist and work with others at Winterfell against the Army of the Dead. Something like seeing an Army of the Dead changes people, both individually and collectively. It's funny as I type this I think isn't that the point, that all the people have to come together and stop fighting about a stupid throne, to fight off a real inhuman threat? Why doesn't that include the Dothraki? The Seven Kingdoms warred for millenia before the Targaryens came. But that warring and refusal to coexist without continuous violence isn't deemed barbaric like the Dothraki. The Dothraki demand tribute, you pay, and they leave you alone. They are not mindless animals, and in fact could be argued to more civilized because violence can be avoided by giving them some stuff. That isn't true of the Westerosi who fight to control and dominate the land. Again, somehow even thinking the Dothraki can't change is racist.
@@kennyhudson9201 First of all, it’s not racist, it’s xenophobic. It’s not about their race, it’s about their culture. You people for some reason can’t seem to understand the simple difference. And second, if you think a culture can change within a matter of weeks/months then you know nothing of real life history. I’m sure some of the Dothraki are progressive (we aren’t told of any progressive factions) but I guarantee you they fight for Danny because she has literal dragons, dragons bring war and that creates plunder and conquest. It’s the same reasons why foreign subjects fought for their Roman or British conquerors, for opportunities, plunder, adventure and advancement. Just like with every invading civilisation, in ASOIAF or real life, rape and murder will be a common thing for years until cultures intermix or disappear entirely. Ask yourself, would you want people living next door to you who were raping and killing a few months/years prior? Because a culture/society like that doesn’t just disappear over night.
It's kinda both. When Lily dies, he gets protected by the magic of her love and sacrifice, which is how he survives the killing curse and why Quirrel burns when he touches Harry. Wormtail adds Harry's blood during the resurrection/revival of Voldemort which allows Voldy to bypass the magic and touch/harm Harry.
The white raven that arrived in season 2 actually just signified the end of summer, so season 2 - ~6 is supposed to be autumn, not sure why the changed it from start of winter to end of summer but yeah that's how they present it.
Medieval Marriage Laws are so fascinating because Preston is correct that a formal betrothal (for the rich people) is as binding as a marriage, and consummating the marriage can be done by just touching legs or even by proxy. But equally 2 people can just exchange vows and say their married consumate the relationship and as long as they both stick to it they're married, but if one breaks usually due to familial pressure then the marriage can be broken. There is so many court cases in the archives regarding marriage between everyone in society it gives you a really good insight into people that wouldnt have usually made a dent on the historical record.
I think the Jon Targaryen thing was not abandoned, but it was used as a plot device. And practically forgotten after the conflict between Jon and Dani ended
The forgotten plot that I always remember is in season I wanna say 5 when Littlefinger tells Cersei he will kill Sansa if she makes him Warden of the North. This scene...Goes nowhere. It's completely unnecessary.
My headcannon for the boats at Hardhome is that they were going to take some of the leaders back on boat and have the majority walk. Landing the entire Wildling population South of the wall means they can kill the Nights Watch escort and go wild, they need to be disarmed and counted and the gates at the wall is the best place to do that.
I really don't understand why they kiinda followed the feast and dance plotlines, but then changed or abandoned them? Like if Dorne or Euron was too complicated just leave it out or save it for later
I'm ok with Davos not resenting Tyrion with regards to his son dying in the Blackwater. Davos is a realist. Surely he understood that Kings Landing would mount a vigorous defense and that his son could just as easily died in the fighting if he had made it to shore. Would he have held it against Tyrion if his son had died by an arrow to the neck from an unnamed archer on the walls? Also, by that point, he cannot reconcile his loyalty to Stannis in the wake of him and Melisandre burning Shireen only to fail anyway. I would think at that point, he would have been questioning what would have happened if Stannis ruled with a sorceress of R'hllor at his side. If anything, I think it's a little weird for Davos to say Tyrion killed his son, as if Tyrion saw Mathos and thought aha, now it's on!!
Yeah I've seen a lot of people make this point and I agree with you. Also in the show, a ton of time has passed before Tyrion and Davos meet as each season is a year
I agree and I also thought it works as a scene. It’s meant to show that Davos is proving his allegiance and willingness to let the past go, by stating matter of factly a reason why he wouldn’t provide such info, but then instead providing it.
Hot Pie's season 7 appearance was a beacon of hope in a long night, the best exposition dump D&D could muster when the show was dark and full of terrors. I will not hear of this slander! Not against Cersei's Greek candles, Jon's conquest, or browned butter in pie crusts.
Preston speaks about Angel as if there weren't a ton of misinterpretations and issues surrounding the Shanshu Prophecy, and the fact it never gets resolved in the end. The whole point is to allow Angel (and then Spike) to reflect on their futures and what they want for themselves when the fight truly ends.
When Shae asks Tyrion why he doesn't just kill Cersei, he states the belief about no one being as accursed as a kinslayer, and a conviction that Tywin/Jamie would kill him. I don't personally believe he was harboring a secret desire to protect her.
29:40 The hordor thing is the technically a loop if you think about it since bran is the reason why hordor is hordor. It's a paradox and hard to explain but it's there
Can you provide a link to the episode discussion about what happened to the Faith of the Militant? I heard you mentioned that there was a specific episode where you discussed this. But although I have searched, I did not come across anything that was titled in a way that made me think I had found the episode you were referencing. It sounded interesting. So I would like to give it a listen if I could find it. If you could provide me with a link, I would really appreciate it. Thank you!
Bran totally wargs into Drogon in the final fight, which is why Drogon pauses to mug at Jon, flap his wings, take ZERO vengeance for Jon killing Danaerys. and then, out of nowhere, melt the Iron Throne.
A lot more time passes in the show so it makes some sense that armies "respawn". I don't know what exactly the timeframe of the show is supposed to be, and Gilly's Baby is a problem, but it feels like each show is a year of time or close to it.
Does it? Who are these people that are in the respawn? What did they do before they joined the army, and why weren't they in the earlier army? Even 10 years isn't very long
@@lomiification Depends on the demographic breakdown I suppose. How many armies do we see respawn? Jon's army isn't that big and gets saved by the Vale. The Lannisters have their army in the early seasons and then it doesn't really show up again until the Gold Road battle or whatever
Why would the iron bank after finally getting the debt back chose to loan out the golden company when at the time they think winter is here like the prophecy had said + for all they knew Dany had 3 full grow dragons just like Aagon that could melt cities one by one only bc Euron has 100 impressive ships to pick em up without the elephants lol, and also scorpions stationed around the city? They most likely didn't believe in the white walkers or the long night and Cersi was the pretty much the last of her house, with Tyrion on the other side????
Jojen says you’ll know it’s the end, while his hand is on fire. IMO it indicates the original ending is set later than the show’s ending, with the weirwood being burned. So the real ending is probably the weirwood being burned and Bran dying or losing his powers and becoming normal Bran again.
Small comment on Carmine saying : "It's not like Lord of the rings, noone is throwing fireballs" and I have to ask, as it's actually a common misconception. What kind of ultra long version of Lotr are you guys watching ?? There is 0 fireball in books, shows or movies ??? Magic is more on the spiritual side, noone is actually a magician except like 5 people, that forms an order and we see very little "magic spells. Wtf is that about ?
Well there's dragons and balrogs and who knows what else. But yeah, the most magic you see Gandalf doing is shine a pretty strong light with his staff :D
@@Siegbert85 yeah or that sick scaring shit he does to Bilbo , more of a perception/illusion that a fireball. My point is that Magic is far from overpresent in lotr.
I read The Hobbit and the first LotR book, and while it's not exactly "fireballs" in that sense I think it's obvious what he means. Gandalf definitely does cast some fire on stuff with magic, he definitely can spawn fire out of thin air using magic, and as far as I can tell he would definitely have the ability to use his magic to throw a projectile ball of fire at something if he wanted. He's saying got/asoiaf has very low/ambient/hard to define magic and use in a sense like that, no one can just light shit on fire out of nowhere
Oh I definitively understand what the sentiment he's expressing, Don't worry about that. I just find it curious to image this sentiment with lord of the rings when it's pretty scarce in terms of magic. He's not the first to make this connection while I just don't see it and think it pretty unfair. LOTR's magic is pretty rare, used sparingly, only when necessary. Miles away from the sentiment people express when they say stuff like "you know, it's not lord of the rings with ppl castin fireballs". Not a direct criticism of Carmine, only to that idea. Harry potter is the example that should be used, not Lord of the rings. @@ricebix
The eagle exploading was controlled by Varamyr, who broke the rules of skin changing, becoming an 'abomination'. Could this be why the eagle burst into flames when attempting to cross the wall...
😂😫 Preston's mic is upgraded, even back then, but he uses a Mac and it doesn't have that crispy quality when I need the audio to be WAV on my PC. It comes to me in a different file type which then loses its luster
Abandoned plot and abandined character arcs. At least I'm enjoying HotD(I know probably in the minority here but I still think season 3 will rock as long as budget isn't cut)
I don't think the bell thing is a contradiction... they haven't shown it but I think there have been talks between Daeny's commanders and the city's defense beforehand so that everybody knows the bell would mean surrender. And why not? Bells can mean anything. The proper context would need to be communicated to the people. You wouldn't expect a royal wedding to just happen out of nowhere. The people would know very well that it's going to happen and the bells just signify the specific time.
@@OfficialRedTeamReview looking foward to it! though I doubt i'll agree with his reasons lol, to me the limited amount of magic makes the world feel more special and if its just sci-fi that sort of de mistifys the world to me, same for propheciesif they are all just fake and bs than thats kinda boring to me XD
Second guy dosent seem to know what a plot line is. The white walkers symbols and child changin os show to us. Why? What was the point of it? Clearly there was a plan that was part of tbe plot....then abandoned
The white walker symbols were just symbols. Not sure how that's a plotline. The child changing showed us why Craster was sacrificing his sons to the white walkers. He gave them offerings, and in return they didn't attack his home. There you go.
@mansionman717 you cant put a symbol like that in a show about a magical mysterious enemy and not explain it. The first time we see the white walkers the symbol is made a big deal of. Why? If they are just weapons created by the children, then why would they even bother leavin symbols and hints? My main issue witb crastor and his kids was how did he know to do this? Did he talk to the nights king? How did he make this deal. If you read the books its clear this was all headin somewhere, but the showrunners got bored of doin the series and wanted out. Hence the shitty ending with no real explanation
Yeh I don't see how Daario is an abandoned plot line. Though its a thematic plot hole. Like Meeren is meant to be an allegory for foreign liberal intervention is bad. Like Dany isn't making shit better is goes violent and these no issue way to fix this society. And their conclusion is to kill everyone and plus a military strongman in power ... though suppose its funnily does show westerners (D and D in this case) failing to solve the problem of Meeren so they place a mercenary in charge to deal with it instead of Dany lol
Plot holes… really plot quagmires that arose out of poor planning. George is so gung-ho about his ‘gardening’ method- but truthfully, he’s an author he needs an outline. Some writers (King) can pull of pantsing. And some (George) want to think they can, and in reality they can’t. Basically why he won’t finish the series now…. I agree that at its peak, Thrones was more culturally discussed even than Harry Potter- the show though, not remotely the books. I also think an argument could be made that it took a much harder fall than Potter did, as a result of the final season. The fervor didn’t run as deeply or as long as Potter…. Which overall, even after JKR’s drama, has been far more popular and long lasting. And definitely made far more money. I don’t think the interest in the Thrones books will ever surpass that.
You guys are so over dramatic lmao. ASOIAF is infinitely more complicated than anything King has ever attempted. George is still a genius and the best author of our time even if he doesn’t finish the books
@@Bluerock121George is in his 70’s, he isn’t even a “writer of our time”. The only reason the main line ASOIAF books (started in the early 90’s) are still relevant is because he hasn’t finished them. If he finished the books in proper coordination with the show then it would be remembered as the greatest cross media event in the last 50 years and GRRM as an unquestionable titan of entertainment. Instead he apparently had a falling out with the TV people, who either didn’t know how to end the show or didn’t care to do it well, then didn’t finished the book series. Now we get every excuse imaginable for him not to finish to the point where he won’t answer questions about it. He has written like 5 in universe books procrastinating finishing the series. George is a great writer but if you want to be remembered as a generational talent then you need to actually stick the landing. He lost major credibility with a lot of people with how GOT ended combined with the constant pushing back of the books. It’s one thing to promise once or twice, especially early in the process, but the “lock me in the cabin” bit was a bit too much for even a lot of hardcore fans. I really hope George does finish the main series because if he doesn’t then unfortunately a lot of people will remember what he didn’t do instead of what he did accomplish - which would be a shame. My fear is that he is not surrounded by people who have any incentive to tell him this. He is printing money right now and if Winds is not well received then that’s bad for business (in the long run, it would sell like crazy but if it was another season 8 it would kill the franchise) which HBO is planning on continuing even if GRRM passed tomorrow. That’s one reason I entertain the possibility that we might get both books after his passing. At that point there will be different factions who make money off different aspects of his estate so someone will have an incentive to sell books. Hopefully I am wrong but 13 years is one long ass wait.
Free will? Hormones tell us when to sleep, eat, mate, and who to attempt to mate with, etc,etc,etc. Try to objectively imagine your life decisions without hormones then tell me humans have free will.
17:13 Storms End wasn't as important as the White Walkers for the story. It's not a plotline but they never explained the white walkers enough and delving into the white walkers more would've been interesting. But I also like how the writers said horror is created through mystery and a lurking villian that isn't always seen, so maybe that explains
In my opinion the circles are not an abandoned plot line. I think people just misunderstand the meaning of the symbols. The point of the symbols isn't whatever their specific meaning might be like cracking a code or deciphering a language or whatever. The point of the symbols is that they are symbols used by the children of the forest (including in the White Walkers' creation). The White Walkers are using perverted versions of their creators' symbols to mock them. Kind of like an inverted cross is a symbol of Satan in IRL Christianity. So they're there to hint at the true origin of the White Walkers (early on) and later they're just there because the White Walkers continue to mock their creators. But that's all there is to them. They're not meant to be translated.
@@OfficialRedTeamReview lol just the way you said it sounded like something that sounds a lot like 'cuts', but is a swear word? Like, one letter away from a swear word?
Cersei's 4th kid was gendry, the directors came out and said so. grrm or his editor took out a scene in the books with gendry hair turning blonde while he's blacksmithing. i think Howland Reed is Mighty Mose and gonna try to rescue sansa.
@@stupidminotaur9735 Nah. Couldn't be confirmed because it was never true and makes no sense. Why would Cersei's kid with Robert be abandoned and given to a blacksmith? Makes no sense unless Gendry isn't Robert's, which still wouldn't make sense, because it's being Robert's child that makes Gendry special, not who his mother is.
@@kennyhudson9201 cersei gave him to jamie who gave him to vasy who gave hinm to a master blacksmith, vasy watches over other roberts bastards eric storm. the karma of cersei ordering her own kids death
The whitewalker symbol is explained tho. Its a symbol from the children of the forest and the white walkers recreate it as an insult to their creators. Just like how demons in Christianity surround themselves with upside-down crosses as an insult to their creator.
Some of the stuff you two talked about were never really a actual plotline to begin with. But Preston is basic and annoying as always, I really wish from the bottom of my heart that he would learn the meaning of the term "plothole" because everything that ghoul doesn't like he says it's a plothole 🤮🤣🤣🤣🤣
muito obrigado for the super obrigado. The video we did here is from another RU-vidr who considers these "dropped plots". Not necessarily plot holes, per say.
