OH SHIT! THE KING OF GONDOR IS BACK!!! If you want the ENTIRE LOTR TRILOGY UNCUT OR the EDITED Reaction to Part 2 of this movie EARLY check out our Patreon: www.patreon.com/spartanandpudgey
It's not really a trilogy. The divisions between parts of both the movies and the source material are arbitrary because it would result in a too long film/book. Tolkien originally wanted it to be one giant book, but there was a paper shortage and they had to split it. Jackson followed that vision of the story, not trying to make an arbitrary climax at the end of the first and second movies.
Denathor, Boromir and Faramir's father has a very interesting and depressing backstory. In the books, he has a palantiri (the stone ball thingy which Pippin took and saw Sauron in and Gandalf got mad at him for) and he has been talking to Sauron for a while. Not to join with him, but trying to oppose him. He kind of tried to stare down Sauron and obviously this wasn't a good idea. Gradually, Sauron completely broke his will and turned him into a hopeless, pessimistic ruin of a man.. It's very interesting story of a man undone by trying to stare evil down alone. A fantastic grey character, kinda like his son.
Denethor was done dirty: He was way more noble & mighty in the books. Not to mention he contended wills with Sauron for decades nonstop & ontop of that even now he was never broken nor could Sauron alter what Denethor would see in the palantir even then he couldn’t control what Denethor had control of which was how he CHOSE to INTERPRET the visions given to him. Using it all to Gondor’s advantage! ❤ he also lit the beacons and got the women & children far away from the city longer ahead of time. So the movie butchered him as well as faramir but they didn’t butcher faramir as badly thankfully. He could have been shown to give Pippen his newest order to light the beacons so then it wouldn’t change the scene much at all as presented! The story here is Faramir’s birth ended up killing his mother Finduilas(named after an elvish princess from the era of Children Of Hùrin was set in);she was a Numenorean woman of the Faithful which her ancestors survived the Cataclysm of Númenor by the way! He was hurt deeply by her death and ontop of that Faramir had the likeness both in temperament as well as his appearance/bearing so he ways reminded of his wife over and over again by Faramir who was just like her, and all it took was a simple look or what-have-you to drive the knife in deeper into his heart about his wife. But also Aragorn when he went by the name gifted to him as Thorongil Denethor’s father basically overshadowing him from his own father so he is as psychology goes: treated Boromir the same way his father treated Aragorn/Thorongil. Note that Boromir and Faramir are half Númenorean which is a big thing as far as the legendarium goes! And it’s something to note that he treated Boromir like his father treated the clandestine Aragorn as Thorongil. Denethor actually did many things the movie shows him not doing or neglecting. He was VERY competent and mighty in many craft and (even a lore-master to a degree). He had quite alot of mental and “magical” might which is why he could contend with Sauron too without being harmed in there process in any way!
Another reason that Denethor is so against Faramir is that his wife died giving birth to Faramir, another emotion that Sauron could use to reduce Denethor to the desparing man he was.
@@VirtualBabe29 he loved Faramir greatly. Faramir held all the same qualities and demeanour of his mother Finduilas. Yes. Named after the elvish princess do the same name. She was from Dol Amroth. So every time he looked at Faramir he saw Finduilas within him, within his eyes, the way he speaks. Everything.
Denethor was done so dirty by Peter Jackson. It's so unfair. His best characteristic, being "long sighted" was actually his boon and bane. Using his palantir, he was able to go toe to toe against Sauron for a long time and oversee things great and small in Gondor. It's just when things were so dire (he could see Frodo captured and the pirates heading to reinforce the enemy in the field) and after Boromir had died and Faramir nearly lethally injured that he lost all hope and gave up. Peter Jackson made Denethor, who is supposed to be as lordly as Gandalf, a snivelling idiot instead for no reason.
43:26 y’all skipped it, but when Elrond gives Aragorn Anduril he says “Ónen i-Estel Edain, ú-chebin estel anim.” This is actually a line of Gilrain (Aragorn’s mother) from the books. It means “I have given hope to the Dunedain (Men), and kept none for myself.” After his fathers death, Aragorn was sent to be fostered in Rivendell by Elrond. That’s why Elrond is so close to Aragorn, he’s his foster father. And when he went, Aragorn was too young to really know who he was yet. So his mother called him “Estel” instead of his true name. And “Estel” means “Hope” in elvish. Aragorn is literally the “Estel,” the Hope of Men in Middle Earth.
@@thefireflycaravan6529 no. If I remember right, Arwen spent Aragorn’s whole childhood staying in Lothlorien with her grandparents Galadriel and Celeborn. She returned to Rivendell after Aragorn had already come of age. I actually believe it was the same day Elrond told Aragorn his true name and his heritage that Aragorn first met Arwen. And he goes up to her like “I am Aragorn, son of Arathorn, heir of Isildur,” like this is some big man flex. And she’s just like, “oh, uh… that’s nice I guess? You do be kinda cute tho.”
@@thefireflycaravan6529they’ve been a couple for 70 years since he was an ADULT. And he’s so far removed from the lineage pertaining to being related to Elrond and Arwen through Elrond’s twin brother Elros who became the first king of Númenor. Númenoreans were super humans both internally and physically at their peak. The zenith of humanity at its best.
@@BlyatBlaster Galadriel intentionally matched Arwen & Aragorn together while they were both visiting in Lothlorien! Arwen & Aragorn met in Rivendell, & that is where Aragorn fell in love with her, although it doesn’t sound like she felt the same at the time. Aragorn’s mother Gilraen warned him that he was aiming too high, and Elrond was not happy about it either, and Aragorn took heed of this and left Rivendell, to learn how to be a Ranger and to oppose Sauron’s forces. Many years later, he came to Lothlorien, seeking rest and shelter, and Galadriel allowed him to enter. We have this line in the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen: ‘But Aragorn was grown to full stature of body and mind, and Galadriel bade him cast aside his wayworn raiment, and she clothed him in silver and white, with a cloak of elven-grey and a bright gem on his brow. Then more than any kind of Men he appeared, and seemed rather an Elf-lord from the Isles of the West. And thus it was that Arwen first beheld him again after their long parting; and as he came walking towards her under the trees of Caras Galadhon laden with flowers of gold, her choice was made and her doom appointed.’ LOTR Appendices. To me, that makes it rather explicit that Galadriel wanted Aragorn to appear at his best. Why? Who could he possibly impress in Lothlorien, except for Galadriel’s grand-daughter? I think it is quite clear that she wanted them matched, and perhaps her foresight told her that they needed to be matched, as it was part of destiny, to begin the Dominion of Men (something Elrond probably also realised, but couldn’t willingly promote, since it would mean Arwen and Elrond would be parted forever). Plus there is the scene in Lorien, where Galadriel gives Aragorn the Elessar, which went from Galadriel to Celebrian to Arwen and then back to Galadriel in order that she give it as a gift to Aragorn. Again it speaks to me as a collaborative act, and part of Galadriel helping bring the two together: And Aragorn answered: “Lady, you know all my desire, and long held in keeping the only treasure that I seek. Yet it is not yours to give me, even if you would; and only through darkness shall I come to it.” “Yet maybe this will lighten your heart,' said Galadriel; for it was left in my care to be given to you, should you pass through this land.” Then she lifted from her lap a great stone of a clear green, set in a silver brooch that was wrought in the likeness of an eagle with outspread wings; and as she held it up the gem flashed like the sun shining through the leaves of spring. “This stone I gave to Celebrían my daughter, and she to hers; and now it comes to you as a token of hope. In this hour take the name that was foretold for you, Elessar, the Elfstone of the house of Elendil!” From LOTR FOTR BOOK
FYI - When Aragorn confronts the Corsairs of Umbar, and Gimli nudges Legolas' bow and screws up his "warning shot," that was Peter Jackson, the director/producer, who took the arrow and died at 51:33. In the actors' commentary on the DVD, Orlando Bloom talked about how cool was to be able to kill of the director.
Ian McKellen gave the performance of a lifetime playing Gandalf...I love all the characters but Gandalf remains my favorite. All his words are important and significant in the story like for example when he talks about Gollum to Frodo in the mines of Moria telling him that Gollum will play an important role in the battle for Middle earth and what we have to decided is what to do with the time given to us. I must have watched this trilogy a million times but each time I am moved by his performance! What an actor! 💫
I´m so sad he played gandalf, I would have wastly prefered he played Dumbledore! Gibon pissed on the original actors memory and his passion for disshonoring character portraials would have been a better fit for this roll, after all Gandalf screams alot XD. Don´t get me wrong Sir Mckellen does an EXELENT job, but his talent feels a bit wasted here.
@@hypnotherapy69 The acting from pretty much everyone in the Harry Potter franchise is atrocious. It was purely the story that carried it. LOTR on the other hand was a literal masterclass of acting from every single person in it. Sir Ians range and skill would have been pointless in Harry Potter.
@@boneidle8420 that’s an awful opinion & I’m not even a big fan of the films. The child actors were pretty bad, sure. But almost every one of the adults killed it in their roles.
@@quavondingle3490 "the child actors were pretty bad" yeah and they were like 95% of the screen time in the movies. I did say pretty much everyone because I left room for some of the adult actors but it wasn't anywhere near enough to make up for the shite.
The reason Frodo is so susceptible to Smeagol's manipulation is because the ring twists your mind. Smeagol understands the effect the ring has on the mind and uses it to his advantage.
true but also frodo is (at least initially) very aware of what the ring is doing to him and that's why he says he has to believe gollum can "come back". So he is very deliberately giving gollum the benefit of the doubt all the way to the end
but frodo also feels a likeness to smeagle.. he sees himself which makes him more trusting of him and sympathetic. smeagle plays on the "only I understand" aspect
I totally agree with both of you. I simply wanted to focus on what I've noticed is an aspect of the relationship that can slip by many viewers on a first watch.
I would also throw in the rationed food and water, and endless walking and climbing, all in the near-toxic air around Mordor.. these guys are exhausted and brain addled.
Tolkien's Frodo was never manipulated by Gollum, the exact opposite in fact. He shows more compassion to Smeagol than Sam does, but never believes him over Sam or sends Sam away. And the toll the Ring takes on Frodo is made very clear in the book. I love the films but this scene deserves to be thrown into Mount Doom.
A note on Pippin and Merry: Pippin is the youngest of this group of Hobbits. He is the equivalent of a human 16 year old. Even Merry is older, at human equivalent 21 or so. He is cousin of Merry and Frodo. So, basically, he is the baby tag-along of the group. So to see him grow is a wonderful, deep expression of what this entire quest is doing for each person involved. We had little doubt of Gimli, Legolas, and Aragon and their capability. We knew Gandalf was badass. And we saw the friendship of Sam and Frodo break through many obstacles. But Pippin has been continually messing up (as kids do) and protected and guided by Merry. To separate them (to keep Pippin safe by Gandalf's side after Sauron thought Pippin had the ring) was a turning point for both Pippin and Merry. Merry no longer has to look after Pippin since Gandalf took that on. So, he, too, has a chance to grow and become a man, as it were. Think way back to when the two stumbled onto this quest and thrust themselves into it. We thought they were comic relief. But, they actually shine through and both have very important roles to play in saving someone or helping defeat someone else. And "Fool of a Took" is a common expression among Hobbits, as Tooks are considered the most foolish of Hobbits. They like to go on adventures, which is the total opposite of most Hobbits. Brandybucks (Merry's clan) are Hobbits who swim. Frodo and Pippin, being cousins to Merry, also swim (Frodo's parents, I believe, drowned which is how he became an orphan to be adopted by Bilbo). Sam, like most Hobbits, doesn't swim. However, we see that Smeagol and Deagol do swim, and they are part of a river clan from long ago. We can assume, somewhat, that Smeagol might have originally been a Brandybuck, but it isn't made clear. A note on Frodo: He is not Bilbo's nephew, though he calls Bilbo uncle. Frodo is a cousin. And, interesting to note, Bilbo's mother was a Took.
It reminds of the line Galdriel says to Pippin in the first film when she is giving the fellowship gifts; "Do not fear, Peregrin Took, you will find your courage." This is ultimately fulfilled especially throughout the third film.
very well said, just gonna add here that Smeagol and Deagol come from a line of proto-hobbits so their descendants eventually became the hobbits of the Shire. So yes, there might be a distant relation between the hobbits and Smeagol/Gollum. I don't think there was any info on Smeagol's family name so that remains a mystery.
It should be also noted, though, that the head of the house of Took holds the title of Thain, the highest rank of nobility within the shire. It's probably indicative of the typical Hobbit mindset that the same family is both the most respected as well as the most mocked one.
44:07 Many people have asked how Aragorn was able to drive off 5 ringwraiths in the first movie on Weathertop. The answer is here: the primary weapon of the Nazgul is fear and Aragorn is fearless. As physical beings they're pretty mid at this point in the story and since Aragorn has no fear, they were not able to affect him as they would a normal man. Now, the Witch King is very strong when he fights in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, but that is because Sauron's power has grown so much and that the wraiths are now closer to him distance-wise.
This is mostly true. Another reason they retreated on Weathertop is that they thought they had completed their mission. The Witch King had stabbed Frodo with the Morgul blade, and they knew it was just a matter of time before he fell to their will. There was no need to risk open combat with someone wielding fire with no fear, and there were only five of them there, not at full strength. Throughout the entire first section of the book, they operated less as soldiers and more like assassins. Sauron was still trying to avoid open combat, as he hadn't drawn up his full strength yet. Even the Nazgul didn't yet have the power to openly invade the entire Shire on their own, so they tried to go a more sneaky route. Looking back, it was undoubtedly a miscalculation on their part. They had a good chance of winning that fight and outright taking the ring by force right there, but they backed off, thinking it would work out. They didn't factor in Glorfindel (replaced by Arwen in the movie) showing up with an elven horse.
@@spamhere1123 And they didn't know that hobbits are so resilient and persistent beings. That's one of the mane reasons for Gandalf to trust in hobbits as ringbearers in the first place. Gandalf tells Frodo, when they meet in Rivendel: “And it seems that Hobbits fade very reluctantly. I have known strong warriors of the Big People who would quickly have been overcome by that splinter, which you bore for seventeen days.”
I don’t think that the Witch King should have been able to defeat Gandalf like that though. They never actually fought in the book, the Witch King was just engaging in some bravado against him. But the idea that the Witch King who is essentially just a powerful human ghost could stand against a Maiar empowered by Eru himself seems highly unlikely.
@@fanghur I agree. I understand Peter, Fran, and Phillipa's reasoning for that moment in the films, but I still don't like it. I thought it degraded Gandalf too much. But they were really trying to build up the Witch-king to be the powerful villain that he was (and make Eowyn / Merry's victory more significant) and they didn't have a lot of available time in the film to do it. Tolkien got to use a lot of words to describe how terrible of a foe the Witch-king was, but in a film, you have to be able to show it in a very short timeframe. They decided a that show-down with Gandalf was the best place to for that. I didn't like it, myself, but can't imagine how anyone could have done it better.
I like that the first thing you brought up in the final discussion was Aragorn's growth. For the longest time I thought Aragorn was just a cool character who doesn't change a lot. Further viewings taught me otherwise. His entire arc in these movies is learning how to be the leader of men. He starts out as a reclusive ranger hiding from his past and denying his future. And when Gandalf, the leader of the Fellowship, dies, Aragorn tries and fails to keep the group together. Everything turns on Boromir's death, though: the first time he embraces his identity as the protector of Gondor. From there, he learns how to lead an army from Theoden's example (both what TO DO and what NOT TO DO). All of which comes to a head in the Paths of the Dead, where he must use his identity as King to win over and lead an army. TLDR, Aragorn's arc is not a traditional one of self-discovery. More so, he learns from the example of others how to be the leader he was always destined to become.
The problem is that he doesn't change. He rejects his destiny until his father in law teleports with the sword he rejected. That's what happens when you change stuff in adaptations without fully understanding the thing you are adapting.
@@AlbertoGarcia-wd7scI def prefer the books to the films however I think you could def argue that Aragorn already mostly changed into the leader prior to getting the sword such as leading those at helms deep to victory (as Saruman pointed out to theoden etc) and also prior to getting the sword he is urging theoden to join the fight for minas tirith- thus already taking some responsibility upon himself and doing whatever he can for the survival of men and middle earth in general- a big part of that change happened at boromirs death I would say, you just couldn’t notice it as much until later on bc he was on a smaller-scale mission for the first bit of two towers
I love the films, but this diminution of Aragorn's character is one of the things I absolutely hate. Aragorn has wanted to marry Arwen since he was 21; Elrond has told him he will allow his daughter to marry no less than the king of both Arnor and Gondor. So, knowing what he has to do to get the only thing he really wants, Arwen's hand in marriage, the film wants us to believe that he spent the next 66 years swanning about Middle Earth actively avoiding doing anything about it. No, no, no! Aragorn has spent the last 66 years working to prove himself worthy to marry Arwen, which means necessarily proving himself worthy to be king of both Arnor and Gondor. That is why he fought for Gondor under Denethor's father, and for Rohan under Theoden's father; he learned nothing about leading men into battle from Theoden, rather Theoden learned from him. I think working ceaselessly for 66 years to win the love of your life is far more heroic and admirable than the utterly ridiculous 6-month transformation we are given. THAT's how much he loves Arwen. What would it say about the strength of his love if he spent 66 years NOT doing what he has to do for them to be together? This is, of course, the result of Jackson cramming every bit of Aragorn's character arc into these three films. But wait -- he put most of the Aragorn-Arwen love story in flashback! Why could he not have done the same with Aragorn's life-long training to be worthy of her? Also lost in the films is the kingdom of Arnor. Aragorn is Isildur's heir, but Isildur was not the King of Gondor, his brother Anarion was; Isildur was King of Arnor, Gondor's sister-kingdom to the north. This is one reason Boromir does not initially credit his claim: Gondor has already, in years long past, rejected the line of Isildur, so that alone is not enough to claim the throne. Aragorn must be worthy in and of himself, not merely due to his bloodline. Which Elrond knew full well when he set the conditions for the marriage to Arwen, making Elrond's story even more tragic: he must lose his own daughter in order to defeat Sauron (it would take the emergence of a man powerful enough to restore and unite the twin kingdoms). So that's another reason to dislike the whole "rejecting his destiny" monstrosity.
Its a very different charachter from the books. In the books he has been working and fighting all his life for this, he has some moments of doubt when he doesnt know really how they should proceed ar the end of the Fellowship, but thats about It
@@drs-xj3pb I agree. It has always bothered me, but the more I read the books, the more I hate what Peter Jackson did to him (and Faramir really) in the movies. Aragorn throws broken Narsil on the table in Brie when he first joins the Hobbits and says this is who I am, this is my destiny, I have a vested, very personal interest in the destruction of this ring. Movie Aragorn is a whiny bitch running away from his duty, book Aragorn is an absolute stud of a man worthy of adoration and great praise who never stops embracing it and running Towards it. The movie does a great job making one of the most well written protagonists in literary history look like a complete twat.
Billy Boyd (Pippin) is an amazing singer/songwriter. In the Hobbitt series, he sings the closing credits song (The Last Goodbye) after one of the movies, I believe after the last movie. Definitely watch the closing credits and listen to his amazing song.
Pippin singing during Faramir's charge is my favorite scene in the entire trilogy. Unbelievable how Peter Jackson, Billy Boyd, and the writers came up with this. His singing voice is beautiful
so just so you know, the beacons aren't really that symbolic or anything. It's a quick line of communication set up between Rohan and Gondor to call for aid in the case of a war. also, in the case of Frodo leaving Sam behind, it's important to remember that Frodo's mind is very close to broken. The toll the ring is taking on him has made him susceptible to being manipulated by Gollum. It's not so much his fault, it's just the general evil of the ring.
That's a very good point to remember. I know Tolkien hated allegory, but the way the films portray it, I always saw the Ring as a metaphor for mental illness. And when you are mentally ill, you don't see things as rationally as you think you do such as distrusting people whom you really have no reason to distrust, or making rash and risky decisions. I wouldn't say they are incapable of rationality because they just are simply incapable of it (as much of the modern stigma should suggest) but rather because there minds are filled to the absolute brim in dealing with the mental illness, its exhausting and makes it so difficult to distinguish between things.
One of my favorite scenes is when Pippin sings, because normally he loves singing, but you can see how devastated he is when he sings that song. I actually went to an event where the actor sang the song again and it was beautiful
To answer your question about the wizards, there are 5 of them. Saruman the White, Gandalf the Grey, Radaghast the Brown, Alatar the Blue, and Pallando the Blue. They were collectively known as the Istari and are all Maiar (which are like these angel/demi-god beings. Sauron and the Balrog are corrupted Maiar...demons essentially). The Istari wizards were sent to Middle Earth after the last alliance because the gods of this universe the Valar knew Sauron would return and wanted them to guide the peoples of Middle Earth. You can see Radaghast the Brown in the Hobbit trilogy. He's like this nature guy who's more connected to animals. The two blue wizards were in the far east dealing with the kingdom of Rhun which are the lands Northeast of Mordor and East of Rohan. Their fates are unknown but we can assume they were keeping Sauron from sending all those people out west to crush Gondor and Rohan. You see Easterlings from Rhun in the Two Towers when Frodo, Sam, and Smeagol first arrive at the Black Gate.
fun fact: the orc with the mangled face was fashioned after Harvey Weinstein. I guess some things do age well 😂 Also, when I see the becaons are lit, it's so goosebump worthy. It just feels so cool to see something rally people together and really make this a struggle that no one can escape, and that every needs to fight together to overcome. The music and landscape shots when seeing the different mountain tops is just freaking awesome!
I have been a fan of the trilogy since it came out, watched it many times. Watching your reactions has added a brand new layer of appreciation for these films. Well done!
Andy Serkis deserves all the awards in the world for what he did with the character of Gollum/Smeagol. In my opinion, he’s the best part of LOTR acting-wise, to be able to do all that physically demanding motion capture job while delivering masterful acting - it’s incredible how he did it. Spartan and Pudgey, if you want more of LOTR and I know you already love Gollum, I highly recommend the LOTR audiobooks narrated by Andy Serkis because it’s such an immersive experience listening to his performance as multiple characters!
I just finished listening to the trilogy, and he was amazing. Although, bless him, he's not a very good singer, lol. But his ability to shift character voices MORE than makes up for it. When he did Boromir, you'd *swear* it was actually Sean Bean reading the lines. (Though he overall seemed to try to avoid making the characters sound TOO much like his film costars--Boromir being the major exception)
@@Frostfyre7 totally agree! He’s great at shifting voices. At one point when he did Frodo, he sounded almost like Elijah Wood! The man is super talented
The story behind the ball is that the Palantir (as they are called) is a rare and ancient item. Few of them existed and they were used to see things from afar and for communication between beings and peoples of great power. Gandalf plead for Saruman to stop using it as the others were not accounted for, and that they didn't know who else was listening in on what they were looking at. Of course Sauron has one, and he used it to influence Saruman as well as spy on anyone else who touched it. It isn't mentioned in the movie, but Boromir's father, Denethor, has one in Minas Tirith... that is how he seemed to know what was going on before they told him. Unfortunately, Sauron influenced it so that it showed him just enough to know how dire the situation was, but not enough to let him know that there was still hope. That is what drove Denethor to fall into despair, thus denying Gandalf's help, and making poor choices out of desperation.
i love these films but they did both Denethor and Faramir down. I remember somewher its stated how long Denethor used the Plantir for, and that the stones recognised him to have authority over them as a Steward of Gondor, but it was after loosing Boromir that Sauron was able to FINALLY break Denethors will. And with Faramir, having him go from "I would not take this thing, if it lay by the highway. Not were Minas Tirith falling in ruin and I alone could save her, so, using the weapon of the Dark Lord for her good and my glory." to i wanna please DADA REALLLYY irked me. HES A GREAT MAN G'DAMMIT
"For so great was Denathor's will, that not even Sauron could tempt him to evil. And so the Dark Lord set to driving him to madness and despair." I wish I could remember if that was actually from the novels, but it's stuck with me, wherever I got it from.
The Peter Jackson version of fararmir does make sense although not book accurate. I bet the change was done to again show the Rings influence and to bring Gollum back? It does present two very different Faramirs though.
It was Minas Ithil's palantir, Osgiliath's one was the master one and much larger, it was placed in a room built over the river and when the city was first sacked that room fell into the river. The palantir was thought to have been washed into the ocean.@@geraldh3932
@@nidh1109 yeah I think the most important thing about Faramir’s character is that he resists taking the ring, which happens in both versions anyway. It’s just that in the movie it happens towards the end and in the book it’s earlier on.
41:49 Billy Boyd (Pippin) wrote that himself from a poem Tolkien wrote. He preformed it live in one take during the filming and that was the first time Peter Jackson had heard it. And that’s the take they used in the film.
Eowyn tends to became enamoured on stories rather than realities; she wants to be a character in a tale, and her love for Aragorn is perhaps close to what we’d consider being starstruck.
But that song actually exists in slightly different format than in the source material and was sung by a very different character. Same as how several lines and poems get spread all over three films in portions. The movies are a masterpiece though anyway. Now, the legendarium is huge. 25 books so I could be slightly wrong with the Billy Boyd song. As I recall this song to be from a much larger one and any time they just use Tolkiens source material the quality goes up. Not just for the people who know the book. They succeeded because Peter Jackson openly stated they’d put Tolkien’s messages into it and put as much of his source material in there as possible.
Fun fact, though you have most likely herd this one: When Sauroman got stabbed in the back, Peter Jacksson wanted him to scream out in pain and suprise. Chistopher Lee, the actor for Sauroman, refused. He corrected Jacksson that that is not the noice someone who gets stabbed like that makes and that he would know, as he was trained as an RAF member and partook in WW2, even claiming to have been part of an undisclosed "Special forces" of which he refused to give details. Based on sir Christopher Lee´s experiance he was allowed to act the scene as he saw fit.
Someone asked Christopher Lee how he knew sounds a person being stabbed would make. Lee leaned in and said "Can you keep a secret?" The person said Yes, and Lee then said "So can I" and wouldn't say anything more - meaning he wouldn't reveal anything about his secret missions in WW2.
And was right. When stabbed like that, the lungs are punctured and deflate, draining the very air ou of them. The stabbed person instinctive reaction is to gasp for air because of this
@@AndreLuis-gw5ox There is a place under the shoulder that pierces the lung and the heart together so you don't make a sound or survive. All at once. (when the enemy has his back on you ofc). Or a deep slice in the throat so your vocals cords are gone , while you bleed to death.
I think of the parallelism of Theoden and Denethor as one of the most intriguing. Both facing the death of the firstborn, both fighting a seemingly hopeless war, one rise with courage the other fall into despair and madness
Very interesting point you are making here. Denethor does fall into madness because he was broken by Sauron himself. Denethor had a palantir so he was somehow engaged in a mental battle against Sauron.
Correct, that is one reason why Gondor had some victories during his reign, at one point Denethor was considered Aragon's near equal but time and the death of Boromir lead him to lose hope. His will was still strong enough that Sauron could not deceive him but by the movie Sauron had grown to such strength that there would be no victory from force of arms.@@geraldh3932
@@hooh5479 Denethor was done dirty: He was way more noble & mighty in the books. Not to mention he contended wills with Sauron for decades nonstop & ontop of that even now he was never broken nor could Sauron alter what Denethor would see in the palantir even then he couldn’t control what Denethor had control of which was how he CHOSE to INTERPRET the visions given to him. Using it all to Gondor’s advantage! ❤ he also lit the beacons and got the women & children far away from the city longer ahead of time. So the movie butchered him as well as faramir but they didn’t butcher faramir as badly thankfully. He could have been shown to give Pippen his newest order to light the beacons so then it wouldn’t change the scene much at all as presented! The story here is Faramir’s birth ended up killing his mother Finduilas(named after an elvish princess from the era of Children Of Hùrin was set in);she was a Numenorean woman of the Faithful which her ancestors survived the Cataclysm of Númenor by the way! He was hurt deeply by her death and ontop of that Faramir had the likeness both in temperament as well as his appearance/bearing so he ways reminded of his wife over and over again by Faramir who was just like her, and all it took was a simple look or what-have-you to drive the knife in deeper into his heart about his wife. But also Aragorn when he went by the name gifted to him as Thorongil Denethor’s father basically overshadowing him from his own father so he is as psychology goes: treated Boromir the same way his father treated Aragorn/Thorongil. Note that Boromir and Faramir are half Númenorean which is a big thing as far as the legendarium goes! And it’s something to note that he treated Boromir like his father treated the clandestine Aragorn as Thorongil. Denethor actually did many things the movie shows him not doing or neglecting. He was VERY competent and mighty in many craft and (even a lore-master to a degree). He had quite alot of mental and “magical” might which is why he could contend with Sauron too without being harmed in there process in any way!
@@Makkaru112 Dude, what are you like? Can it with the pasted comments on every single LOTR reaction video. It's like SPAM at this point. It's pointless and boring.
The Aragorn-Arwen love story is (sort of) added. It is definitely not central to the books, but has been reconstructed from the huge amount of backstory stuff that Tolkien left us.
Lighting of the beacons is one of the most epic scenes ever filmed, imho, The music is epic. Faramir's father calls him a "wizard's pupil," because he and Gandalf were very close. He was Gandalf's pupil. The tree, btw, was planted from a seed that came from the island of Numenor, which was the home of Isildur and his father Elendil. A kind of race of super men. Aragorn is one of the last of that race.
And of course, worth drawing the line further: Numenor's first king was Elros, the twin brother of Elrond. Both were considered half-elven, and thus they were both given the choice to be immortal (fully elves) or mortal (fully Men). Elrond chose immortality. Elros chose mortality, and became the first King of Numenor. His elven heritage gave him longer live -- he lived to over 400. But Elrond still had to see his twin brother die. Elros is Aragorn's ancestor. That Numenorean heritage is why Aragorn is 87, but looks in his 30s or 40s. (By now, the descendants of Elros are not *as* long-lived. But Aragorn will still live to over 200.)
He's not the last of that race though? The rangers in general are descended from those people, and Gondorians too. Aragorn is the direct descendent of Isildur, but he is very definitely not the last of the Numenoreans.
One of my favorite things was Legolas’ and Gimli’s friendship. If you remember, at the beginning they were enemies. I never read the books but I was told that the Elves and Dwarves had a beef that had been going on for hundreds if not thousands of years. For Gimli and Legolas to form that tight bond in the time they were together was a wonderful miracle.
@@evilieeemia7779 You see one of the worst alterations of Tolkien's works by Jackson. Strangely, Rings of Power has a better alteration to show friction between Elves and Dwarves when Durin is angry with Elrond for missing many key events in his life (marriage, children, etc.) because 100 years is nothing for an elf, but a lifetime for most mortals.
@@evilieeemia7779 he didn't mess up the timeline because not everything on paper translates to a movie screen well. A 17 year time gap between when Bilbo leaves and Gandalf returns would have been pointless for the viewer of an already 4hr movie.
After the events of the trilogy, they go sight-seeing together, as they had promised each other before the end of the war! Gimli takes Legolas to see the glory of the Glittering Caves that reside below Helm's Deep, while Legolas takes Gimli on a tour of Fangorn Forest. While they parted ways to help re/built their respective homes, they come back together after Aragorn's death; Gimli had the unprecedented honour of being the first Dwarf allowed passage into the West, invited by Legolas, and the last we hear of them is that they have sailed to the Undying Lands together.
The writer of G of T is George RR Martin and he styles his name as an homage to JRR Tolkien who he cites as a huge influence, as does JK Rowling. Tolkien is widely acknowledged as the Father of the fantasy genre. Apart from the incredible fil making of all involved the movies are so great in large part because of the fabulous source material. And Howard Shore's music score is totally awesome.
In fact JKR never admit Tolkien influence on her work she only say she read Tolkien when she was young (but JKR say when she write HP she doesnt whant write a fantasy book ^^')
Not to diminish Martin's admiration for Tolkien, which is very real, but the "RR" homage isn't true. His middle name is Raymond, and he took the confirmation name of Richard in his early teens. He was calling himself George RR Martin long before he became an author.
It is Fantasy but the topic of relationship,struggle in life and going to war it’s just too real . You can clearly see that Tolkien was in WW2 and the dark forces are similar to Nazi Germany
I think that if I had to pick one thing to add to these movies, I would choose more context for who Denethor was, and why he is the way he is now. He's a convenient villain here, but the reality of his personality and character for most of his life was much more aligned with that of his sons. Wise, honourable, respected. Just driven mad by Sauron through a Palantir for the sake of destabilizing Gondor
Jackson put the story through some hoops to give Aragorn and Faramir character arcs they did not have in the book, and yet took one of the most complex characters in the book and turned him into a madman whose entire purpose in the story is to be an obstruction. When Gandalf punches him out, it's a moment that creates applause and even laughter in audiences. It's a pity.
Also, his objections to Aragorn taking the throne aren't fully unjustified. The stewards have been ruling Gondor for centuries now, after the southern line of kings dies out. So why should a descendant of the northern line of kings now suddenly take the throne? In truth, Aragorn earns the crown moreso through his actions for saving Gondor than through his lineage.
@@roerd If lotr were a bit more politics-oriented, Aragorn could also have put forth the claim that he isn't only a descendant of Elendil, but also of the last daughter (i think) of the southern line of kings, Firiel, who married the last king of Arthedain (Arnor), Arvedui. after the sons of Gondors King died, aswell as the King himself, she actually should've become queen due to Numenorian law as the last living direct descedant. Arvedui even tried to gain kingship of Gondor through her but ended up being denied and then soon after that Arthedain/Arnor was defeated by the Witch-King. The son of the new King of Gondor Earnil, (distant cousin of the previous King and victorious general) was Earnur, who was sent to aid Arnor/Arthedain but came too late, and then instead defeated the Witchking with the Elves. The Witchking challenged him to a duel, which he was barely dissuaded from, and then renewed the challenge after Minas Ithil had become Minas Morgul. This time Earnur accepted and was never seen again, and having left no heir was now known as the "Last-king" of Gondor. Also another factor that ended up helping Aragorns claim was that Aragorn managed to heal a lot of the wounded after the Battle of Minas Tirith, while other healers couldn't, and there was this saying/prophecy that the eldest healer at the Houses of Healing knew: "The hands of the king are the hands of a healer and so shall the rightful king be known." She believed in that and kinda helped spread the news, which ended up supporting Aragorns claim aswell.
It wasn't much of a tease when they were actually coming out in theaters. They filmed all three movies concurrently, but still released them a year apart. So it was a three-year affair for audiences before all was said and done. Good times. 😊
Filmed, but not 'finished'. Jackson finished the first and released it. He now had a year to do it again, and then again. From an actors point of view they have to wait quite some time between working and seeing the results. It makes it easy to understand when some actors reveal they never watch their own movies. Still, very good times :)
@@terrylandess6072people forget that there's still massive amounts of work to do on movies aside from just the filming, especially so for films as complex as the lotr trilogy.
@@ahumanbeingfromtheearth1502 Especially considering how this trilogy spearheaded new technologies in visual effects, a lot of which was done in post production. It was such a titanic effort. Despite the overinflated budgets, even the biggest blockbusters of today don't compare for the sheer amount of effort needed before, after, and during filming that they put into this trilogy. Both pre and post production for LOTR were monumental
@@terrylandess6072 True. But I was just referring specifically to our (the audience's) having to wait a full year between each release. I also understand well enough that that was less to do with marketing and more to do with the logisitics of editing, special effects, etc. I do think, personally, that it should be a far more common practice for the trilogies, especially if we go in already having decided to produce a trilogy. At the very least, get the screenplays for all three installments laid out and more or less settled before filming begins. That way, a full story arc is set from the beginning and each film has its integral role to play in it.
In the original script, Saruman was supposed to yelp when he was stabbed in the back. Sir Christopher Lee protested saying that's not the sound a man makes when he's stabbed in the back. Jackson inquired and Lee told a story of when he was in WW2 on a clandestine mission and he had "first hand " experience on what noises a man makes when stabbed in the back. Sir Christopher Lee had a very interesting life from being personal friends with royalty in Europe, stage and film actor, creating a heavy metal album and of course being a Nazi hunter during and after the war for the crown. He was once asked what exactly did he do during the war in an interview. Lee responded to the question with "Can you keep a secret?" the interviewer said "Yes" to which Lee replied "So can I." and left it at that.
I don't know if anyone has mentioned it before, but a small fun fact: the pirate who get's shot accidentally (with a little help from Gimli) by Legolas, is actually Peter Jackson as he has cameos in every movie :) (if it was mentioned, I apologize, I did not scroll through all comments)
The order of wizards consists of five. These are angelic beings (maiar) who have been sent as emissaries from the greater powers (valar) as an aid for the free people. They arrived with boats from the west and their names are Saruman & Radagast, Pallando and Allatar, Gandalf (in order of appearance as I remember). They all have a color: Saruman (white), Radagast (brown), Pallando & Allatar (blue), Gandalf (grey). Radagast is the one who brought message from Saruman to Gandalf in the first movie. He is good, but naive and does not take part in the fights. All the wizards failed their mission in their own way, except Gandalf.
Pallando and Alatar's fates were unknown. We can _assume_ that they failed insofar as the Haradrim and Easterlings joined Sauron in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields, but we ultimately don't know how many of them didn't join.
My copy of "A Guide to Middle Earth," by Robert Foster (1974) mentions three by name: Saruman, Gandalf, and Radagast. The other two, Pallando and Allatar, are not listed. Under the term "Wizards" it states that only those first three were named in LotR. I would very much like to know the source regarding Pallando Allatar.
Actually, the late writing of JRRT changed position on the blue wizards. He decided they played a crucial role in the east, ensuring not all the forces of east could be mobilized to crush Gondor.
@@MichaelPower212 "Unfinished Tales of Numenor and Middle Earth" (1980), a collection of short stories and essays that were never completed. Personally, I don't view the names Pallando and Alatar as canon due to the _unfinished_ nature of that collection and Tolkien's notes constantly, and often drastically, changing the details of the two unnamed Wizards.
There's a quote from the books, on the stairs of Cirith Ungol, that I've always absolutely loved; I think it goes a ways at explaining Smeagol's fate, and truly how much the lack of pity from Samwise turns the fate of all. Here it is: “Gollum looked at them. A strange expression passed over his lean hungry face. The gleam faded from his eyes and they went dim and grey, old and tired. A spasm of pain seemed to twist him, and he turned away, peering back up towards the pass, shaking his head, as if engaged in some interior debate. Then he came back, and slowly putting out a trembling hand, very cautiously he touched Frodo’s knee -- but almost the touch was a caress. For a fleeting moment, could one of the sleepers have seen him, they would have thought that they beheld an old weary hobbit, shrunken by the years that had carried him far beyond his time, beyond friends and kin, and the fields and streams of youth, an old starved pitiable thing.” Like in the film, Sam wakes up, sees Gollum, and says something unkind. And Gollum's look hardens again. I believe Tolkien thought that nearly all of us are capable of redemption. But that pity for the unfortunate, compassion, fellowship, and a love of everything green and good is what separates us from evil. Sam displays so many of these qualities already; had he been kind to Gollum, things may have turned out differently.
This 3rd personality theory has me fascinated. I never thought of Gollums dialogue that way, but its a valid theory for someone who hasnt read the books or seen the movies before. Love seeing unique perspectives.
The Nazgul scream is the corrupted song of Melkor. So it is the most beautiful song you know but in reverse so every sound that makes you feel good makes you feel dread or pain.
Absolutely agree. The fact they filmed all three at once, with all the shenanigans that happened! One of the most extensive BTS filming of any movies I've seen.
@Lethgar_Smith , I've suggested it multiple times but I've never seen it. Most of these guys are streaming the films and likely don't have access to the extra features.
The rewatchability factor of these movies is seriously off the charts. Truly hard to believe I've been watching them once every year for the last 20 years, and they just keep getting better and better. I love to watch them around Christmastime. All the decorations and lights make the magical quality of the movies pop even more.
...and I thought we were odd for doing the exact same thing. It's a Christmas tradition for many years now, along with watching the Doctor Who Christmas special and rewatching 'Hogfather', 'Going postal' or 'The colour of magic' 😂
I love how you go "It's either the "sacrifice" trope or the "happy ending" trope." I was thinking, oh guys, you don't know the genius of Tolkien and what you are in for here. ^^ I think you will love what he has in store for Frodo. Also, it's great that you are picking up on Tolkien's genius in other ways, remarking on the extraordinary lines of dialogue that these films feature, taken straight from the books.
You two, great commentary. A blast watching this with you. Very impressed with how much your picking up on this first viewing. There really is no other filmed fantasy in the same league as the LOTR.
Éowyn's part was more fleshed out in the book. I honestly thought her a bit shallow in both the book and movies but the book showed her growth and depth of character in the end. They couldn't put *everything* in the movies, so it wasn't bad, I just preferred the book's treatment of Éowyn. I guess I sort of feel sorry for what the movie character was made to be when that wasn't who she was.
Elves can die of a broken heart, so if Aragorn fails and dies she will also just die. That’s what Elrond kind of meant by her fate being bound to the fate of the Ring because the fate of the Ring will decide the mortal world and she is now mortal. Her seeing her future child was just the push she needed to not go to Valinor and stay and bind her fate to Aragon’s and the mortal realm. But it can be a little up for interpretation as it’s not something from the books.
They all go beyond the circles of the world as this gift was so Morgoth couldn’t chase down all souls of mankind and bend them to his will. So this is how the gift of men came to be. As there is a special conversation with a certain lady that shows what Morgoth did to her people before the first few houses of men that were discovered and befriended by Finrod Felagund (Galadriel’s older brother.)
Fun fact: Podrik singing Jenny of Oldstones before the Battle at Winterfell in GoT 8x2 mirrors Pippin singing Edge of Night at the Battle of Minith Tirith. Just one of many times the GoT team showed their love of LoTR.
One of the unique features of this story is that Tolkien creates a fully formed realistic world where magic and dragons actually exist. It is a place you feel deep down inside that you could actually visit. The place is somehow real, in some ethereal plane and yet, just beyond our reach. I believe this is the source of all fantasy media today. This concept of "world building" and its importance in fantasy and science fiction story telling begins with this book that Tolkien wrote. The game Dungeons and Dragons was born out of fans of this book wanting to somehow live in that world or at the very least interact with it as a sort of avatar. That same desire to live in and interact with a fantasy world is the impetus for computer based roll playing games as well. I think it all stems from Lord of the Rings.
There is a lot to absorb. Just 'now' watching a new thought dawned on me: The poor people living in Minas Tirath and Osgiliath have never seen a 'proper' sunrise while there with Mordor rising in the east and 'recently' billowing smoke. They may get Sun around 10 AM.
Remember, the whole motivation behind LotR was Tolkien's regret that England had been robbed of it's own ancestral mythology. Invasions, occupations, and the influence of the church, basically erased all the old stories the ancient Britons told among themselves. They had the Arthurian legend, but nothing that counted as a creation mythology, unlike the Reek, Romans, Egyptians, Norse, etc. The world of Middle Earth was meant to foll that void, and so important was this task to Tolkien that he was working on it until his death.
Denethor in the books is a much better character. He doesn't send Faramir into a suicide charge and he actually organises the defence of the city. He was only young when Aragorn who remember could live very long, previously came to Gondor and Minus Tirith under the name of Thorongil; Aragorn proved himself a better fighter and commander than Denethor, so Denethor felt left out as his father and the people of Gondor adored Thorongil but not him. Denethor still was a strong leader and a kind person, but he sort of grew to be his father treating his sons like he was treated. Denethor also had a Palantir, which is a seeing stone, the same type of stone that Pippin looked into. So over time Denethor was sort of corrupted as he spent more and more of his time looking into the seeing stone. He was never fully corrupted like Saruman but it did impair his judgement and whole demeanour. From his perspective additionally, the ring was the last chance to save Gondor and all the free peoples, however, obviously it wouldn't of saved them but from his perspective he was effectively betrayed by his son and that action of letting the ring go, would've destroyed all chances the free peoples had against Sauron. So you could consider him a sort of tragic hero. Faramir also was sort of badly represented compared to the books definitely not as bad as Denethor was, as in the books he instantly sensed the ring and was not tempted by it and let Frodo and Sam go straight after they captured them. I don't mind Faramir's representation in the movies though cause it showcases the immense power of the ring to corrupt those who even come close to it. Also the Sam monologue at the end of the two towers is absolutely spectacular.
These parts had to be adapted or cut. This would have been another movie to just show their backstories. And the uncut version of this movie was 220 minutes alone...with the Shire uprising from the books, this movie would have been half a day long...
In The Two Towers, King Theoden was the avatar of despair and loss of hope. In Return of the King, they utilized Denethor to fulfill that narrative role.
@@Grizzlox yeah. Maybe those characters were misadapted in comparison to the books, but they were incredibly compelling, still. Wouldn't have been as interesting if Frodo/Sam/Gollum had a smooth-sailing experience with Faramir, and the same goes for Gandalf/Pippin with Denethor.
Fun fact, Elrond and his twin brother are half human/half elven. They both had the option on whether to remain mortal or not, Elrond chose to remain mortal whereas his brother chose to live a mortal life and he became the first king of Numenor - of whom Aragorn is a descendant. So Elrond is both Aragorn’s father in law, as well as his uncle.
One of the things LOTR does so incredibly well is giving each character a chance to really shine, but more importantly, play an essential part in the success of the journey/battle(s). It's so brilliant they way they function as a team, but also individuals.
It's not in the films but in the books it's hinted at that before Gollum disappeared into the Misty Mountains, he was responsible for the disappearance of babies from the homes of the woodmen in the eaves of Mirkwood. It's inferred that Gollum was eating them. Gollum was never good.
Since Lord of the Rings Online has had time to add more and more of Middle Earth, I recently had the pleasure of stumbling upon Smeagol's area of origin. A small 'hidden' glen east of the Misty Mountains which indeed are just west of Mirkwood and appear to be under the protection of the Eagles. The Gladden Fields.
The hobbit is a lot more theatrical but they’re still very good. I’d be hyped if y’all reacted to it!! Also I commend you both for watching the extended editions on your first watch though. I usually recommend the theatrical cuts because the additional scenes mainly add flavor text/information. But you both are troopers!
Considering how they dove into the lore videos of Game of Thrones, seeing the extra background of the extended editions won't be lost on them. There is so much deep history to Tolkien's world of Middle Earth, it's worth it.
@@MattLathrum I just joined in on their channel with these reactions, but I admire that a lot! GOT was a lot to keep up with and I definitely applaud them with how well they kept up with their first watch through on EXTENDED editions of these movies. This was so fun to watch.
You absolutely should react to the Hobbit aswell. They're good, they just get hate when compared to the Legendary Lord of the Rings. But thats the same with the books aswell. The Lord of the Rings books are praised as the best, but the Hobbit book is considered a childrens story. But they're fun, it's a nice adventure, lots of cool things in every movie. Theres 3 of them too, with extended editions. I'm really hoping you'll watch it, any excuse to stay longer in Middle-earth.
Yes for sure! I still enjoy the hobbit movies even if they're not the same level at lotr (too much cgi imo). And the book was one of my favourites as a kid
My problem with The Hobbit films is that 3 movies seemed like an excessive cash-grab. The original Lord of the Rings trilogy is about 1500 pages total, depending on the edition. The Hobbit is 304. You don't need three extended movies for that.
40:36 In the books Faramir was a very heroic and more like Aragon (in a way I'd say) and definitely proved his worth. 48:05, 46:51 His father Denathor was also more competent and noble and also had a crytal ball like Saruman through which Sauron made him loose hope in winning the war, in the books. Sadly they didn't show that in the movies.
They did Faramir dirty in the movies imo. Because he never tried to take the Ring. In the writers' defense, it was a good choice for the cinema since at that point in the story, Faramir letting Frodo go immediately would have de-escalated the tension right when they needed to build it towards the film's climax. However, for book fans, it was tough to see Faramir lose the plot for a moment.
Denethor was done dirty: He was way more noble & mighty in the books. Not to mention he contended wills with Sauron for decades nonstop & ontop of that even now he was never broken nor could Sauron alter what Denethor would see in the palantir even then he couldn’t control what Denethor had control of which was how he CHOSE to INTERPRET the visions given to him. Using it all to Gondor’s advantage! ❤ he also lit the beacons and got the women & children far away from the city longer ahead of time. So the movie butchered him as well as faramir but they didn’t butcher faramir as badly thankfully. He could have been shown to give Pippen his newest order to light the beacons so then it wouldn’t change the scene much at all as presented! The story here is Faramir’s birth ended up killing his mother Finduilas(named after an elvish princess from the era of Children Of Hùrin was set in);she was a Numenorean woman of the Faithful which her ancestors survived the Cataclysm of Númenor by the way! He was hurt deeply by her death and ontop of that Faramir had the likeness both in temperament as well as his appearance/bearing so he ways reminded of his wife over and over again by Faramir who was just like her, and all it took was a simple look or what-have-you to drive the knife in deeper into his heart about his wife. But also Aragorn when he went by the name gifted to him as Thorongil Denethor’s father basically overshadowing him from his own father so he is as psychology goes: treated Boromir the same way his father treated Aragorn/Thorongil. Note that Boromir and Faramir are half Númenorean which is a big thing as far as the legendarium goes! And it’s something to note that he treated Boromir like his father treated the clandestine Aragorn as Thorongil. Denethor actually did many things the movie shows him not doing or neglecting. He was VERY competent and mighty in many craft and (even a lore-master to a degree). He had quite alot of mental and “magical” might which is why he could contend with Sauron too without being harmed in there process in any way!
In the books Sméagol is described as coming from a race of people who are similar to hobbits. Also, the thing with breaking Saruman’s staff. Gandalf cast Saruman out of the wizarding order. Breaking the staff was a symbolic gesture as well as Gandalf breaking Saruman’s powers.
These movies do a really good job of dipping into the lore without getting lost in it. I wish they could have listed every tiny bit of lore from the books, but that would have been completely untenable, so I'm glad they handled it the way they did. That being said, there's a lot of background stuff that adds to the experience when you know it, at least for me. Palantiri (the orb they got from Saruman is one of these) aren't actually evil in and of themselves. They're basically long range communication devices, kind of like magical Skype. The problem is that Sauron got one of them without anyone knowing, so he's able to talk to anyone who has one. This is why in the first movie, Gandalf tells Saruman "we do not know who else may be watching." The corruption of Denethor and Saruman were both due in part to them having a Palantir. Saruman was already leaning in that direction, but having direct access to Sauron didn't help. Denethor lost hope because he'd seen Sauron's strength through the Palantir in Minas Tirith. The line "I give hope to men, and keep none for myself" was actually said by Aragorn's mother in the books in reference to giving birth to Aragorn. Also, the elvish word for hope ("estel") was the name Aragorn was known by throughout his childhood. I'm so happy the writers found a way to work that line into the movie, and having Elrond start it was great since he was Aragorn's foster father.
A little history from a big Tolkien nerd. Gondor is the kingdom, Minas Tirith is it's capital city. At it's founding, there were 3 main cities in Gondor; Osgiliath (the one on the river Faramir took Frodo and Sam to and later fought to try and hold, Gondor's original capital), Minas Anor (meaning Tower of the Sun) and Minas Ithil (meaning Tower of the Moon). After centuries of warfare against Mordor and it's allies, the Nazgul led an army, took Minas Ithil and renamed it Minas Morgul (Tower of Sorcery, the dead city the big army came out of). Osgiliath was fully abandoned and the capital moved to Minas Anor which was renamed Minas Tirith (Tower of Guard) to continue to hold and fight back Mordor. Osgiliath, caught between these two warring cities, was ruined more and more over time. When you realize that Gondor had been desperately holding back Mordor for millenia by this point, the desperation of Boromir and Denethor makes some sense.
Andy Serkis voiced and motion acted Gollum/Smeagol - He also did the same job in Planet of The Apes and is just an immensely talented actor. You should check out some behind the scenes footage of Andy playing out the Gollum role, it's really awesome!
In order for the motion capture to work correctly at the time, Andy Serkis had to play the scene twice wearing two different motion capture "suits". He did a fabulous job in his performance and should have been nominated an oscar at least for it.
@Ben-fl6rf I didn't know that detail, that's very interesting! Yes, he should definitely have won an Oscar. I think he deserves more recognition for his acting, especially the movement acting he does.
That line from gollum when he says why does he hate poor smeagol, what has smeagol ever done to him is such a great line but he seems to have forgotten that when they first met in the movie he did try to kill them both lol
So, Peter Jackson has a cameo in each of the 3 films. In this one, he's the guy Legolas accidentally shoots on the boat at the end of this half. In the 1st film, he's in the town of Bree right after the Hobbits enter, eating a huge carrot. In Two Towers he's in the battle of Helm's Deep throwing a rock down onto the orcs. A lot of the crew have cameos. Brief little moments for them to be on screen amid the huge work they did to make this all happen. The producers, the VFX leads, etc.
"Fun" fact: Peter Jackson went on a long babble explaining how he wanted Sir Christopher Lee (Saruman) to react in the stabbing scene, scream and make it dramatic, to which Lee just said to Jackson; "Have you any idea what kind of noise happens when somebody’s stabbed in the back? Because I do.” He was a WW2 British spy, almost married a Danish Princess and was the real life inspiration for the character "James Bond", whose author, Ian Flemming, was his stepcousin. Lee was the only cast member to actually know Tolkien's works. He read the trilogy every year as an adult and wanted to play Gandalf, but Jackson thought he was better as Saruman, probably because he was already too old for Gandalf's scenes. But he nailed it anyways. Fascinating, no?
The majority of the movie was filmed on location in Aotearoa NZ, the ones with the snow covered mountains was filmed here in Norway. Those beacons are called “varde” in Norwegian and was used in the old days as a way to help sailors and people tracking inland in the mountains to find their way
Bro... i cant wait for the rohirrim charge... it always brings me to tears... Please for the love of all that is sacred guys put Theoden's speech and the charge until they make contact with orcs, uninterrupted.... Its like three minutes only and its the best part of the trillogy.... The music makes me cry everytime. THANK YOU.
God damn... You brought water to my eyes just reading your comment... Arise, arise, riders of Théoden! Spears shall be shaken, shields shall be splintered! A sword-day, a red day, ere the sun rises!
no chance we can get that through copyright. impossible. youtube has become ridiculously strict. we'll try our best to capture the shows key moments as always.
It's lovely to experience this trilogy through the eyes of innocents i.e. those who have not read the books. Watching you speculate about what is going to happen brings a fresh perspective to a familiar narrative. I have never had the luxury of anticipating the movie plot, having first read LOTR as a prescribed text in Year 11 English and re-read it almost every year since (nearly 45 years!). The only surprises really was what was omitted or abridged. Keep up the good work!
I'd definitely recommend watching the Hobbit, it's very different from Lord of the Rings and I agree that it's not as good but then again, in my opinion no other movies really come close to matching LotR so idk how fair of a criticism that is. I'd definitely watch a reaction to them and I think a lot of others would too
The guy who played the role of smeagol/gollum for preparing CGI for the Charakter is an amazing actor himself! In " the Hobbit" he even was second director. You really should react to these movies/films too because you would miss a big part of this EPIC story!!!❤
Just realized I hadn't given you my support for this one yet. 🤗 You didn't seem have many questions out of this one that couldn't be explained by the next half, so I will just say: The lighting of the beacons was *AWESOME* in theaters! And don't worry, if you decide to watch The Hobbit, I haven't given you any spoilers. Even my Faramir rant was only because I knew you had already watched this. I can't bring myself to actively encourage anyone to watch The Hobbit, so you'll have to decide for yourselves if that's what you want to do, but if you do, I'll watch your reaction. Other than that, my only comment is: I wish they had also made Gandalf's sword glow blue. It was actually supposed to, having come from the same place as Sting.
Minis Tirith is the capital city of the Kingdom of Gondor. It was once a smaller outpost and the ruins we see Boromir and Faramir fighting in was the original capital city known as Osgiliath that is now in ruins from years of wars with the orcs.
Yeah ya'll should definitely watch The Hobbit trilogy. I know it's very divisive among fans but still, you should watch it and see whether you like it. There's still a lot of good in these films, especially the feeling of adventure.
Nerd fact: Aragorn is descended from Numenor, who were not only long-lived, but were gigantic, physically imposing, 7 foot tall men, which was the reason Sauron feared them... After the fall of Numenor, the bloodline got mixed with normal men and they gradually disappeared, with only those like Aragorn who inherited their long life
33:40 The beacons scene was inspired by the Fall of Troy, that was the way that the entire ancient Greece learned the news that the city fell before 3200 years in a single day.
While the Hobbit trilogy doesn't hold a candle against this one, I do believe they are worth watching. They are entertaining enough to me, and as you say, you get to spend some more time in the world :)
You should watch the Hobbit. From what I’ve seen most of peoples problems with it come from the fact they tried to stretch what is a rather slight book into three movies, which is kind of greedy and mercenary, but really, that’s mostly an issue for people familiar with the source material, I think you guys will really like it.
Yes, a lot has been added to that trilogy. But most people forget Peter Jackson never wanted to make Hobbit as a trilogy, he thought of one, at most 2 films. It was the producing studio that persuaded him to do 3. I've read The Hobbit and I know that it could have been turned into 1 film, but I still love all three films, because they have the emotional touch of Peter Jackson. As someone said, it's a different vibe, but it's visually beautiful, the actors are brilliant and PJ's emotional/character trademarks are there. It's a wonderful world to roam in
"I give Hope to men, I keep none for myself." -- the epitaph of Gilraen, the mother of Aragorn, whose elvish name is Estel, which means Hope. After his father was killed by orcs, she brought Aragorn to Rivendell for protection because the enemy hunted.He was raised there by Elrond and grew up with his sons and met Arwen. He visits Gilraen's grave in FOTR just before they leave Rivendell.
And the lighting of the beacons... One of the most majestic scenes ever, not only the visuals but also Howard Shore's incredible music! Mum and I had goosebumps watching it on the big screen back then and we still do every time we rewatch the film :)
I think Aragon didn’t question his ability to fight. He felt shame and unworthiness to rule because his ancestor failed to destroy the ring when he had the chance and he worried that weakness would run in his veins. He had to prove his worthiness to himself by traveling the realms fighting evil.
Which is completely at odds with his characterisation in the books. Book Aragorn is a Gigachad who knows it's his destiny to become the king of Gondor, carries Narsil with him at all times (yes, even while it was still broken), and pretty much goes off on the quest to destroy the Ring just to prove to Elrond that he's good enough to marry Arwen.
@@dungeonsanddobbers2683 Yes! Book Aragorn spent most of his life learning about the world of men - fought with Rohan and Gondor, went to the far East and South, even scouted Mordor. He has been preparing for the quest for his whole life, and not once did he think that the was unworthy. He is proud of his lineage, but feels that he needs to earn the right (he first needs to serve the people he intends to rule) - my favourite character from the books.
I love your channel. I’m going through some dumb life stuff right now but you both are uplifting, hilarious, and have really just got my spirits up. Thank you.
Great reaction! Definetly watch the Hobbit, I think if you go into it with the right expectations, that it isn't as good, its more just a fun bit of bonus content on top of the main trilogy then you can have a good time and enjoy getting a bit of backstory to some of the characters.
Ya, I love the look of Minas Morgal (the dead city,) too. To my eyes, it's akin to a shadowy version of the Emerald City. Fellowship of the Ring is my fav of the films, but the lighting of the beacons is the most emotionally moving scene for me. I could envision myself on a mountain top, standing sentry to light a fire. They are warning beacons, not symbolic at all. They derive from historical sources on Earth, and Tolkien was familiar with them.
From Wikipedia: The first three of these five Wizards were named in The Lord of the Rings as Saruman "man of skill" (supposedly Rohirric, in reality from Old English), Gandalf "elf of the staff" (northern Men, in reality, Old Norse), and Radagast "tender of beasts" (possibly Westron). Tolkien never provided non-Elvish names for the other two; their names in Valinor are stated as Alatar and Pallando, and in Middle-earth as Morinehtar and Rómestámo. Each Wizard in the series had robes of a characteristic colour: white for Saruman (the chief and the most powerful of the five), grey for Gandalf, brown for Radagast, and sea-blue for the other two, who are known as the Blue Wizards (Ithryn Luin in Sindarin).[4] Gandalf and Saruman play important roles in The Lord of the Rings, while Radagast appears only briefly, more or less as a single plot device. He innocently helps Saruman to deceive Gandalf, who believes Radagast since he is honest, but fortuitously alerts the eagle Gwaihir to rescue Gandalf. The two Blue Wizards do not feature in the narrative of Tolkien's works; they are said to have journeyed far into the east after their arrival in Middle-earth, and serve as agitators or missionaries in enemy-occupied lands. Their ultimate fates are unknown
So fun to watch your reactions! I loved how angry Spartan got at the Steward ( Faromir's father ). That was classic!! Pudgey seems very concerned about everyone and I feel bad she's already so emotional. BIG HUG for you! It will be even more emotional in Part 2...get your tissues guys!! Can't wait to see part 2. Thanks and enjoy every moment cause it only happens once. Keep smiling!🙂🇨🇦
Denethor was done dirty: He was way more noble & mighty in the books. Not to mention he contended wills with Sauron for decades nonstop & ontop of that even now he was never broken nor could Sauron alter what Denethor would see in the palantir even then he couldn’t control what Denethor had control of which was how he CHOSE to INTERPRET the visions given to him. Using it all to Gondor’s advantage! ❤ he also lit the beacons and got the women & children far away from the city longer ahead of time. So the movie butchered him as well as faramir but they didn’t butcher faramir as badly thankfully. He could have been shown to give Pippen his newest order to light the beacons so then it wouldn’t change the scene much at all as presented! The story here is Faramir’s birth ended up killing his mother Finduilas(named after an elvish princess from the era of Children Of Hùrin was set in);she was a Numenorean woman of the Faithful which her ancestors survived the Cataclysm of Númenor by the way! He was hurt deeply by her death and ontop of that Faramir had the likeness both in temperament as well as his appearance/bearing so he ways reminded of his wife over and over again by Faramir who was just like her, and all it took was a simple look or what-have-you to drive the knife in deeper into his heart about his wife. But also Aragorn when he went by the name gifted to him as Thorongil Denethor’s father basically overshadowing him from his own father so he is as psychology goes: treated Boromir the same way his father treated Aragorn/Thorongil. Note that Boromir and Faramir are half Númenorean which is a big thing as far as the legendarium goes! And it’s something to note that he treated Boromir like his father treated the clandestine Aragorn as Thorongil. Denethor actually did many things the movie shows him not doing or neglecting. He was VERY competent and mighty in many craft and (even a lore-master to a degree). He had quite alot of mental and “magical” might which is why he could contend with Sauron too without being harmed in there process in any way!
This is my favourite movie of the 3, every emotional moment hits because they developed the world/characters/storylines so well in the first 2 movies. I basically cry for 3 hours watching this, amazing payoff
It's a crying shame though that the films don't do justice to Frodo. I hate the scene where he believes Gollum over Sam and sends Sam away, it isn't in the book and it's such a betrayal of Tolkien's characters. The films are great overall, but nothing can replace my love for the book. If you read the Appendices at the back of RotK, you will find out what happened to all the members of the Fellowship years afterwards. Tale of Years, Appendix B.
That's the weakest part of the movie, Frodo would NEVER send Sam away. I understand why they wanted to separate them, but it would never happen. We can blame the ring but I still don't buy it. Sam's return is great though. I've always had an issue with Théoden and Faramir in the Two Towers, but I've learnt to appreciate the changes over the years, particularly Faramir. I still don't love seeing Aragorn lecturing Théoden @@philippalinton5850
That is so difficult, but i'll try to narrow it down 1. Ride of the Rohirrim 2. I can't carry it for you... 3. Frodo standing on the shore at the end of Fellowship, when he remembers Gandalf saying 'so do all who live to see such times'. That whole sequence is amazing 4. Gandalf telling Pippin about death 5. Lighting the beacons I feel bad for not picking anything from Two Towers because I love that movie, but most of my favourite moments come from RotK. Honourable mentions to Théoden's final scene and Sam's speech at the end of TT Do you have a top 5?@@joshwhite1606
So glad you loved these movies. I highly recommend watching the making of. They are part of the extended edition sets and are an absolute joy to watch. Honestly you will not regret it.
Cool, that you like Gollum / Smeagol so much. Surely one of the most interesting characters of the story. And also cool to hear your suspicions up before you watch it. I would like to not know all the endings and be able to see them again for the first time...
Always gives me a chuckle, because as a Maia, Gandalf is older than the Arda (physical world), but obviously for Treebeard (being at least 11000 years old), Gandalf, as an “old, beardy wizard” roaming the Middle Earth, is about 9000 years younger. When Gollum said he wouldn't hurt a fly, he accidentally kills one, that was just sitting on his forehead. Gondor is the kingdom, Minas Tirith (the Tower of Guard - in translation; formerly known as Minas Anor - Tower of the Sun; nicknamed The White City) is the current capital city of Gondor. Unfortunately, Denethor was using another Palantir (seeing stone) to gain information and wisdom, but he pulled into a trap, and was fed lies and intimidation by Sauron himself; that's why he is so bitter and broken in the end. He can't see any hope.
I love how it's always bang on around 11am for me, can have a nice cuppa and everything made and just chill out and watch the latest. Can't believe your lord of the rings journey is nearly over!!
This movie has a few of the biggest and worst changes from the books but still manages to be one of the best movies of all time. It just goes to show how good this book was. Return of the King is tied with Titanic and Ben-Hur for most Oscar Wins at 11 and Return of the King has the most wins without a loss in Oscar history by going 11 for 11. The portrayal of Denethor in this strays from the book as he resist the will of Sauron for longer than most and it's only at the very end when we see him give into despair. Also Gandalf being unhorsed and cowed before the Witch-King pisses me off because it's so far from the truth. "In rode the Lord of the Nazgul, under the archway that no enemy ever yet had passed, and all fled before his face. All save one. There waiting, silent and still in the space before the Gate, sat Gandalf upon Shadowfax: Shadowfax who alone among the free horses of the earth endured the terror, unmoving, steadfast as a graven image in Rath Dinen. “You cannot enter here,” said Gandalf, and the huge shadow halted. “Go back to the abyss prepared for you! Go back! Fall into the nothingness that awaits you and your Master. Go!” The Black Rider flung back his hood, and behold! he had a kingly crown; and yet upon no head visible was it set. The red fires shone between it and the mantled shoulders vast and dark. From a mouth unseen there came a deadly laughter. “Old fool!” he said. “Old fool! This is my hour. Do you not know Death when you see it? Die now and curse in vain!” And with that he lifted high his sword and flames ran down the blade. Gandalf did not move. And in that very moment, away behind in some courtyard of the City, a cock crowed…. And as if in answer there came from far away another note. Horns, horns, horns. " - J.R.R. Tolkien, Lord of the Rings Return of the King.
@@Connor8609 nope, definitely not. A lot of changes doesn't make any sense or break what was working. Elves from Rivendell and Lorien somehow getting to Helm's deep faster than Saruman's army. Corsair fleet, whose is manned by Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli, who are all on the same ship. Arwen dying because Sauron is getting stronger. Denethor grieving for Faramir, when he was the one who sent him to obvious death.
@@Connor8609 No, it's not. For example, the scene where Frodo believes Gollum over Sam and sends Sam away is an insult to Tolkien's characters. Frodo was wimpified all the way through these films. He is so much better in the book. I love them for the most part, they're great, but some things in them go against the spirit of the book. And the skull avalanche in the Extended Edition of RotK was ridiculous.
@@Connor8609 "Better" is a purely subjective point of view. For Joe Public who only knows that it's based on a book? Sure, probably, the changes from the source material (mostly a _lot_ of forced conflict) are there to keep their interest. For fans of the books and Tolkien's work? Not so much. Many of the changes and outright mischaracterisations of characters are annoying, take away from the experience, or come off as downright insulting. If I had to come up with a Top 5 Changes I Hate, I'd go with: 1. The Army of the Dead Deus Ex Machina 2. Comic Relief Gimli 3. Peter Jackson's obsession with elves being perfect and the best at everything ever 4. Aragorn doubting if he has what it takes to be the king 5. The complete lack of any kind of establishment of geography or how _long_ the journey was (IIRC the events of the book take place over the course of a year, or so, while the film makes the whole thing feel like it happens over a fortnight)
14:05 "Here why he loves so much fish, it's probably the last thing that made him happy" after so many years i love LOTR world I I never thought about that, you just blew my mind
The corsair bosun that gets killed (accidenlty by Legolas thanks to Gimli) is director Peter Jackson, making a cameo. Other crew members that cameos as corsairs are Sir Richard Taylor (Weta Workshop supervisor), Gino Acevideo (Supervisor of the prosthetics and make up), late Andrew Lesnie (Cinematographer) and Co-producer Rick Porras. Taylor and Lesnie are hard to spot but Acevedo is the swarthy corsair at the giant crossbow when the pirates scream and Porras is the one who watches in fear before cutting to The Army of the Dead runs over the water. Jackson cameoes in The Two Towers as a Rohan warrior throwing a spear at Helm's Deep when the Uruk's attack the gate.
I’m literally on the edge of my seat! I am so excited to see the rest of your reaction to this bittersweet conclusion of the trilogy! You’re definitely are going to need a lot of tissues for the next part! 🤧😱💛💚🤎
Beacon fires have been a way to send messages for thousands of years. You could get a basic message hundreds of miles in hours rather than days. Usually their use was for calling for military aid, though in theory, they could be used for any predetermined message.
