The first apology I remember them doing was in a White Dwarf years ago, it was for the Virus Grenade in second edition and could wipe out an entire army before the game had started (it was like a stratagem used at the start) but they asked you to tear up the card and not use it.
Lol, yup, I lost virtually all my ork hoard to that virus bomb first turn (if I remember correctly). It was shocking and not fun at the time, but now it's hilarious 👍😅
I bought the launch box to split with a friend, like you I really enjoyed the way the codex was written like a sci fi novel! I reckon at some point Black Library is going to drop the twist that the Votann are actually surviving Men of Iron who engineered the modern day Kin to basically be a slave race in a "can't perceive the hand that controls them" sort of way.
Auspex Tactics already gives insight of the whys to this. Someone at GW got interviewed by Metawatch explaining the process of what they look for and what are the standards for new army books. This was for AoS but to think the process is radically different for 40k would be ludicrous. There was another channel that explained the Play Test process. GW play tests their Codices for 40k in 4 Army Pods. In the case of Votann, they were playtested against Tau, Alderai, Tyranid and then Votann. Given that each of those Codices were OP it makes sense that LoV would be out of whack. So no, not a conspiracy.
Just incopantance... Like why not valdate their findings against space marines, choas, orks you know the main factions of 40k? Also it could be intermitted as conforming the conspiracy of GW wanting to power creep 40k so they only tested it agaisnt the last few codexs to see if the power creep was still on.
@@eastoforion basically they do it in pods because the way they publish Codicies. So the ones getting published within a certain time frame are the ones they test against. So look at the Knights books, both of them are well balanced internally and semi well balanced externally. They were tested against each other, CSM and Demons. All four of those books are very solid. Not OP and they have multiple quality builds per book.
I think when Deep Rock Galactic blew up, Games Workshop saw that it was feasible and went for the whole mining megacorp-conglomerate idea for the leagues.
Def got banned at multiple tourneys in Germany, then a number of others pre-banned them around the world. Auspex & tactical tortoise had vids, was all over reddit. The judgement tokens auto wounding and spillover damage meant the big vehicle could like 1 shot a 10man squad of marines & such. Much love man! Gotta get those BT’s on the tabletop this edition!!
I think what this Codex really shows it that GW should start to release rules as PDF first (perhaps included in WH+ to give some value to that crap) and make a printed "Collectors Edition" later when all the glaring issues are fixed. I don't play 40k anymore, just Necromunda, but I really don't want to come back to this mess. For me, the magic time was 3rd/4th edition (with all the problems these editons had).
The only complaint really is that the new ruling creates this anti-synergy, and it's just weird. Even if they reworded it so that hit roll counted as the unmodified wound roll, then at least you wouldn't get punished for taking auto wounds on the Magna-rail rifles, or you would at least still have a chance to get the exploding damage. I did get the box and the models are still fantastic so I'm not that fussed, it just feels very odd. Also as a side note: If they wish to adjust points as fast as they did here, they should use the back cover of the codecis to add a plastic wallet that holds A4 by default, and print the points costs on a prinout in there so people dont feel like they need to write in their books, they can just pop a printout of the new points in there.
Or if it was worded that even if you got the auto wound with the Magna-rail from judgement tokens then roll a die and on a 6 it would do the splash damage and on 5 and lower it would just do the single target hit. It would still be hard to proc but not impossible if you want to use judgement tokens. The new rule just make the uniqueness of the magna-rail kinda pointless. I do agree it needed to be nerfed but they need to look closer at it.
I found it really funny that James Made a special appearance in the apology, but will people write the nerfs with a sharpie into the book or will they just have to print the rules and have extra annoying pieces of paper floating around and getting lost😂
I loved the "I should only exist at Christmas" in the end. And, obviously, you tear up the page, you copyit by hand on a blank page (no lines, that's cheating) and then you glue it in with pva glue
Sisters of Battle got codex/index updates but not models before their refresh, so were never truly squatted. Both Necrons and Dark Eldar went as almost as long as that with no rules updates or models.
Votaan change to auto sixes was a big feels bad moment for me. Points cost hike seemed excessive for an army no one has even tried in a tournament yet...but we all play crusade because its straight up more fun anyway.
next edition GW needs to release rules for all armies right on day 1 as a playtest - give us all a year to playtest the armies, collect feedback, and have an official release day for all codex at the same time. either that, or don't make a codex an army building tool - make it a lore and fluff tome, and then release datasheets and points values online.
As a painter, not a player, I don't understand this at all. I get they're overpowered but I heard the same thing when the Tyranids came out when Necrons came out and when the Tau came out. So why has this become more of a bigger deal? Or is this just 40k players being 40k players?
I think the issue with the brokenness is less to do with the sheer power through super efficiency of the codex known as codex creep (nids, harlequins etc being super strong on release) and more to do with how the squat rules actually over powered the mechanics of the game. the principle being you pick a target, roll to hit, roll to wound, roll to save and roll for damage. With Votan rules bypassing parts of that system to great effect and either completely removing or marginalising the opponents ability to defend themselves. Also with it being a dice game this was massively exaggerated because when you change the probability of something going of to from 15% to 50% thats huge.
Basically it's like this: Tau and Tyranids are recent enough examples to use. When their codexes dropped, Tau had incredible firepower potential but still got hurt when you fired back/got them into combat. Tyranids were given a lot of unique rules to adapt to situations, but you could still absolutely outplay them if you knew how. Votann couldn't really be played around. They have multiple things many armies don't, even multiple unique weapon types, and there isn't much of a way to beat them period before these hits.
An across the board points hike is a knee jerk response to try and satisfy people who were griping, particularly those on social media and are disproportionately louder. There would have been a nerf like every other codex after its been out a few months, but this was a rush to depower them by basically thinking the board on points.
I really like the squats, although i already have way too much to build and paint already. James was hilarious, but since I'm new to the hobby, when I was watching I had no idea if this was "normal" or not.
Like d thing on the internet it gets blown out of proportion. But at the same time. What if they did change anything just left it? The factions of 40k all have strengths and weaknesses. Doesn’t that make it balance? I’m just a noob so I really don’t know what I’m talking about! Thanks gents!! Fantastic as always!
No, they WERE banned. In several countries. But what most don't tell you is that those circuits ban new codices out the gate until they get an FAQ, so they're not as special as some may think.
Awesome vid, I concur, good on ole GW with the vid. Also, haven't said it in a while, but man each of your patreon transitions still get me going... they jimmy my jam and flim my flam. Sorry if I got that wrong, but accidents do happen.
The video with James was hilarious frankly. This is a game and not something to get too mad about. I also love that the man at the top took decisive action. Or delegated. Also, he only exists at Christmas.
I decided that I'm going to slowly build a Squat army. I'll get a box of troops and see if I like making and painting them. I'll ally them with my Tau and see if I like how they play. If it's fun, it'll expand into a small group of angry, drunk, short men.
Based on BR of Votann pre-nerfs i think they went over the top with the nerf. They don't seem top tier or even above average now and the new grudge rule with weapons seem anti-synergic now. Because of that I think the competitive scene which brought this nerf on the faction won't play them and GW might show low support. Which is a shame considering the amount of time Squats players waited for their return. Unreleased units are now way worse as well. So they will mostly sell to hobbyists like me. As a old school Squats collector / ex-player i will collect and paint the LoV. I am just happy they exist but i wish they get supported in the future :)
I feel like the judgement token system is kind of busted because it's going to be super strong against any armies with low unit counts and relatively few but tough models. Anyone doing a tank heavy army, knights or anything like that will just get completely stomped out because suddenly any weapon the LoV have can hurt those big models easily.
thing is that the book dosn't have a time line in it unfortunatly. BUT, if you take the info in section one and intergrate it with the background from other books there timeline is going to be masivly complecated.
@@minigamerjeonsofbattle9376 No in the lore section it says that they have been missidentifyed by the magor races, so they have had key interactions with the TAU and ELDAR. and have intervened on behalf of EVERY fraction in 40k
You know that one point change her model on the leagues of photon base troopers actually makes a lot of sense because they come with a crap ton of upgrades so it'll force you to pick and choose more when it comes to selecting your upgrades.
40K really needs a proper video game that plays by the same rules as the tabletop, almost like a simulator. people can try out building armies adn tehn settle on what they might want to collect for real. GW can use it to have mass playtesting before new releases.
Dude you honestly think GW didn’t know?, People didn’t just spend their money to use a sharpie and ruin their brand new book, GW had years and months to plan this, and after all that planning and editing still print the book. This IS a big deal, I don’t want GW to think this crap is okay at all, and then offer a joke apology. Dude don’t drink the cool aid
Yeah. They probably knew Squats could have a very mixed response model wise. So to "gurantee" a recoup on their investment they broke the rules in half. That way if people didn't like the models they would still get their money from metachasers.
Pretty interesting! I bought the starter box because I liked the models with no intent to play them, but maybe ill give the space dwarves a real shot someday
Jay! Love your vids as always. I actually had a question. I don't live very close to any FLGs, and the online retailer miniaturemarket that I typically bought models from has recently been having a lot of trouble fulfilling orders. I thought you had recently recommended a webstore to buy miniatures from but I couldn't find the name of it. Could you remind me?
A GM for battles is a good idea. A neutral party to gently steer the players past gaps and contradictions in the rules - or knowledge thereof, to subtly hussle them past moments of "well that should obviously never happen...", and remind everyone that the point is to tell a story, not just to win. (A battle is a short and bloody story, but still a story.)
I'm just glad that after 30 years Games Workshop has finally got all the army's from 2cnd edition done. What happened I stopped calling James Workshop and asking when we where getting squats, told fine I will play them space elves instead.
I agree 8th is great i started with 3rd edtion I saw many problems with all edtions prior to 8th edtion to many players would invent there own rules I e rhino blitz thanks enjoy ur vids
From this I actually do think their law is pretty cool after hearing you read it, so good job on getting me to at least think there's somewhat interesting I'm not sure if they're gonna be one of the races that actually make a dent in the galaxy but I don't know we'll see
Well I mean wasn’t marine armor based off of an STC pattern anyway? They’ve fought humans in power armor during the crusade. Doesn’t seem that far off another “human” culture would use the same human tech they find or build.
@@bertellijustin6376 it's lazy, with Rando groups I doubt we ever see a picture of yea you can make them look similar, don't make a new faction that looks similar to the only faction you make minis fir
Thanks for this overview of the codex's release... Which I've skipped though TT titian play the pre release codex and the leagues tied both games so yeah not OP and Auspex tactics did a video on the new rules and it seems like the leagues went from S to A so not a big nerf(Which some League models are under powered and got nerfed...) Which I'm happy your enjoying that they are here now welcome on board the Space dwarf train!
There are other weapons then just the Magna rail rifle that has unmodified 6 abilities lmao. “Nothing has changed for squats” except that whole league that got fucked hahahaha.
Votan is actually pronounced, Wotan. Gravity pulls, not pushes... wouldn't that mean they grow super lanky and tall as the black hole PULLS everything around it garvity wise??
Yay pay £40 for a codex that isn't balanced and youll get moaned at for playing with yaaaay. I get that you can sharpie in the edits... but you have to know they exist first. Plenty of people will buy this thinking "I have everything I need because this is their specific rule book" Maybe just switch to a pdf :/
Maybe I'm too pessimistic on this but it seems a well rehearsed routine. 1. Leak your codex to get interest prior to release. 2. Sell lots of models. 3. Nerf the codex after to not annoy the rest of the player base. I appreciate balance is difficult but it just seems too predictable that every codex has been overpowered.
I am sorry, but I don't agree with your opinion. Getting rid of the playtesters in July has in my opinion nothing to do with it. The production cycle for print media is six months from them being finished writing to being sold. So playtesting would have ended in March 2022... More like corporate greed and being called out for it by the community.
I'm not really annoyed they nerfed Votann. I didn't want to show up to my Gamesworkshop and everyone rolls their eyes when I say I brought Votann. And, now meople won't assume I got the box because it was OP
Does Games Workshop's rules design team even do beta testing before publishing their books? I don't like buying a brand new codex only to find out all the point values and rules written inside are inaccurate and have been changed. It makes me feel stupid for buying it. Me thinks I'd be an idea tae beeeta tes wif da judges in da kommuniti beefor publishin rulz.
Taken far too long to release them and then pulling the standard GW FOMO with the set sold out almost immediately. Would probably have given them a try but had already gone for the Into The Dark Kill Team while waiting for the Squats. So, I've a couple of sets of the Necromunda Squats. My interest in the "Leagues" has pretty much dried up. Too much teasing a release not enough getting on with it. So, the delay may be down to getting shot of the play testers? Bad planning by GW again. Maybe this time next year.....
I respect your opinion, but I think this has been a really bad thing to happen, but only the last straw in a long line of GW bad choices. Sure, they have made a fun video (that I've not watch, they are a megacorp so I don't buy into "cool tricks"). The codex format is a scam, to trick people into an impulsive buy frenzy fueled by never ending hype. Remember Tau? And the Chaos Space Marine codex? Heck, with guard finally at the doors, how remember the Squat? Oh yeah, the people that bought a product and got another thing, because GW has a game so busted they need to nerf things even before they are for sale at the store. A lot of things need to change for GW to regain my trust (that they only had in the Index era of 8th, and have lost ever since, to be fair). I know they are a business that only care about making money and milking the cow, and at least they are milking us dry with a smile, but just because I understand the motives does not mean I accept them.
I am all for having squats back into the game, But I personally do not like the new lore or the over all astethic. I personally would have liked them to be a part of the imperium as a client state or ignored protectorate that was devistated by the nids. but they exist with a degree of autonomy due to their xenophobic attatudes. they have waaay to much daot stuff.
It’s cool you like them but I can’t see them as anything besides primaris aliens their just so bland they lack the absurdity and horror of most 40k races. I hope they get sculpts at some point
It's why I stick to 3rd edition 40K; better balanced and a great blend of rules and hobby, allowing players to create their own characters and have the rules to match them.
As a league of votann player since their first release way back in 2022, I don't mind the changes. Feel the Allow auto wounds to count as 6's is the kind of broken mechanic that should be reintroduced as a 2 cp strategem. Also GW has already made the shift to not including points values in other books, it's becoming more of a live document. We know points are fluid.
You think that was an apology? an apology is what The Army Painter did that video is another statement that GW dont give a damn about their clients and just want to sell stuff I really thought that you guys (Eons of Battle) would have a more mature take on this topic more than "it was funny"
Wont lie, the squat's lore is 10x better than how they're presented on TT/art. Their armor is just a sillier version of Terran marines from Starcraft. The weird ox-heads just dont work and the runes are kinda odd. They really do feel like space dwarves, even more than I thought GW would want them to. Also I hate that all their weapons are just imperium guns.
They must have known how broken they were before they finalized the rules. If they didn't, then they're just incompetent. Of course they hoped people would flock to the new OP faction and buy tons of new models. They just didn't expect the backlash it received. Thus the hasty nerfs and "Apology".
Squats are really game-breaking powerful. Even me who only read rules and have fun from watching others playing understand it. After all, I have 10 years experience of playing WH, I do know how exactly this rule-system works. Unfortunately, even resent updates did not fix the situation. Squats are table-flippers.
So the Votann is an all knowing, autocratic intelligence that practices eugenics and controls his own master race. Also add to this that the Dwarven races are often associated with Norse mythology in a fantasy setting. This reminds me of something. I wonder why this was banned in Germany?
lol you never played 9th but couldn't see why it's broken... hahaha well thats a good reason why you couldn't see how busted it was. those of us who play a l9t of competitive 40k, could clearly see its bustedness haha
Personally I don’t think this was the case, I truly think they made a mistake are correcting it. Especially since they’re offering refunds for it and not just saying “oops my b suffer”.
The Sisters weren't made popular, they always were, despite no attention from GW for all those years. The update and new models are simpley awesome and I'm glad so many others find them cool as well. 👍
Just decided to finally give 40K a try and listened to about a dozen lore videos for different factions. As soon as I heard the SoB I loved them and picked up the patrol. Painting them now.
gw never updated SOB until recently because for 20 years, they claim that female miniatures won't sell. same thing about dark eldar. notice that eldar, despite being a popular xenos faction, never got their new plastics until recently. same reason.... they contain female models.
Now we just need the orders to be as differnt from one another as the SM chapters are. Not just different colors, but special helmets and gear and such.
It's true ! You'd hardly run/ran into *anyone* playing them. It's not just made up. Even at conventions.. rarely did anyone roll a SoB army. I'm surprised they've lasted this long to be honest, but if the retired them or phased them out.. You'd have people complaining.. claiming they were just about to start playing them !! I think one of GW biggest mistakes was getting rid of the original red box Warhammer & all those connected pieces. I know many who did play & still play Warhammer - who won't touch 40k.
We all expected the rules/points update but not literally 5 days after a box came out with not even their whole model line released. Not a single 2k point game has been played with the full model line, so no one can tell how broken this book even is. Everyone should get a refund on their codex in the votann box set. This need is based on 0 data, this is just a over reaction by the community and GW, this is not a good thing. I play death guard and CSM and I’m not scared of the votann. Only a 6 on a hit roll that auto wounds due to eye of the ancestors is treated as being a 6 for the wound roll. You can only give judgement tokens to enemy units you can see I think a soft points update should look like this Iron master 100pts Grim 90pts Kahl 80 Uthar 160 Hearth warriors- 12pts ion guns are free Beserkers- 25pts Hearthgusrd- 40-42pts (no Reroll wound against them is strong) but they’re 2 wound terminators with no invul and not obsec. Pioneers- 100pts Thunder Kin- 90pts Land fortress- 300 is fine but all guns gun options are free
About it not a big deal... Infront of you is a $50 paper weight. Edit: Like the most expensive TTwargaming book I have not from GW is the hardback Victory at Sea rule book that comes with the core rules, Extra rules, all the models rules in the game like all, all and it was $45 when I got it. Most games ether have free rules and or one faction rule books for like $30 or just use unit cards and ignore the whole codex thing... So marking up a $55 single faction book is not good enough when you are paying extra for it... How ever I do want one to colect as it is past it's use by date and should be cheaper second hand then it was before the nerf.
