Garmin or Aspen? Search for Avionics! 

I have a PMA450B and ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT. hands down one of the easiest cheapest and benefit packed upgrades I’ve ever done

Hey Dan I installed the PSEngineering Par 200B and love it. I introduced it to my mechanic and now he puts it in almost every plane he can. Not only it has great audio quality with Bluetooth, automatic squelch plus more features but it has a built in second com so it frees up panel space. One of the features it has is split transmitting so I can talk to atc while copilot talks to formation flight pilots, it’s pretty cool. Just putting it out there if you want to try it out come by and we can go play😊

In training I flew the G1000 and the 750. I installed in my own plane DYNON HDX and a GTN 750. I like it better than the G1000 bigtime! Autopilot works Great and its all plug and play. Take a look at Dynon

I was so happy to yank my Garmin audio panel and replace with a 430B. Great unit, Better in every way. I listen to XM music and it works great. Lots of options on how you want to distribute sound to all the people

I have put the PMA450B in multiple planes and LOVE IT…. Would not use anything else. There support is friendly, helpful and the care about GA.

I was with a guy there at OSH who got his medical back after fighting for over a year, you can't begin to understand how happy he was to have had the FAA actually come through

We’ve got a newer PS engineering audio panel in one of our club 172s and haven’t had any issues.

Exactly, Monopolistic just like the Monopoly now by Textron (Lycoming etc.) and Whelen (WAT) first bought Lopresti and now bought AeroLEDs, combined about 80%-85% market share on LED lighting.

I’m all for helping out the underdog. However, I’ve got THOUSANDS of hours behind garmin products and can’t remember a single notable failure. However I’ve got like 1 or 200 hours with an Aspen and have had 2 of them completely quit in flight. Needless to say, I won’t be trusting my life to one of their products anytime soon.

Upgraded my PA32 in 2009 with the Aspen. What reliability ….i rate it 5/5 !! Good luck with your decision !

When you say Garmin is expensive, you are very correct. I recently dumped $130k of everything Garmin into my Mooney. All I can say is that you get what you pay for.

With you 100% Dan on considering who to work with / buy from... in addition to what to get... good insights in my book!

I'm getting the Trio ProPilot autopilot and PS Engineering PMA450c installed in a couple weeks!

Garmin owns the market. But imho the gfc 500/600. Is the best autopilot. There have been issues with some of the servos in the 500 Garmin is replacing them. Another pilot first got a 3100 and then had to swap it for the gfc 50” due to issues. If you pair with either a 650/750xi you get full features.

An Adventure pilot and some easy to read steam gauges is all I need. Not a panel that's worth 2-3 X of the plane itself !

Thank you for taking us along as you explored the avionics options for Lola. I am excited to see what you decide to do and how it turns out. Keep up the excellent work. Safe skies my friend 🇺🇸🛩️

I love your commentary and agree. Michael Studley from Aspen is the real deal. He knows who I am and has been so helpful. I just tried to call garmin support. 2 hour wait. No call back option. My aspen hasn’t been completely without issue but the coms and follow up from the company is what I expect and appreciate.

👍✅ Glad you can finally upgrade 👏 Cant wait to see some video of Lola flying again.

day off of filming ... filmed all day 😀

Dan you should check in with Martin Pauly about your avionics upgrade. He’s very knowledgeable. He believe he upgraded to Aspen and Garmin products.

I had garmin in my arrow and I always had great customer service and could contact customer support and get help fairly quickly. I think there’s a reason why you see garmin in jets and turboprops…they’re quality and features are top notch.

I spent 16 years working as a GA avionics tech, I had absolutely nothing but problems and failures with both Aspen and the Stec 3100 systems. I would 1000000% spend the extra money for the GFC autopilot and G3X. The Garmin products just work, and they work very very well. If you must, I would buy a 55X over the 3100 from a reliability standpoint.

I realize that you only posted this today, about an hour ago. I don't know what you've been doing since you filmed it, however. I do have some information for you. Don't hold me to what I'm going to say, make sure you check it out to make sure what I'm saying is correct. If you want to use the Aspen Avionics, scratch Garmin off the Autopilot list. The G500 requires the use of something like a G5 display, or bigger, but a Garmin display unit. The G600 is only certified for the P210N, so if you want to use a Garmin Autopilot, you'll have to use the G500 and replace your panel. Actually, you could probably install a GI-275 to drive the autopilot, but it wouldn't be the Aspens that were driving it. Personally, for something like a Piper Cherokee class of aircraft, I think the GI-275 would be great. A four-screen setup would give you ADI, HSI, Moving Map, and Engine Monitor. But, in Lola, I think the bigger screens with more functions, push buttons for features and all probably makes more sense. Unless you want to rip everything out and go with a new G3X Touch. The S-Tec 3100 is a good choice, but if you want to do VNAV, you'll need to use a Garmin GTN750/GTN650(TXi) navigators. Avidyne will not support VNAV. If you don't worry about VNAV, then you can use other navigators. What kind of Navigators? Well, I guess it's going to be a hodgepodge panel if you want to keep the Aspen and go with the 2500 Max setup. You currently have a GNS-430, I'm assuming WAAS and a Cessna NavCom. I also think you have a GTX-345 (but it might be a -335) and of course, that stays. Now, I just pulled up Sarasota Avionic's website. None of this includes the actual installation. G3X Touch 10" $7,000 G3X Touch 7" $5289 I put this in there for the co-pilot's side and for backup. Also, when you let others fly the airplane, you have your own display in front of you to see what's going on. Mount this in portrait mode. LRU Kit $3,400 GA 56 GPS Antenna $429 (x2) 8 GB Supplemental Data Card You'll need two, but they're like $100 through Garmin. I suggest you can probably buy just as well at WalMart. lol GEA 24B EIS Interface with connector kit. $1,925 6-Cyl CHT/EGT, Oil P, Oil T, MP, Fuel Flow. Probably want the Gravity feed version. $1,789 TIT probe. $99 A GAD 29D will drive a S-Tec autopilot from the G5 (and most likely the G3X Touch) But, the S-Tec is about twice the cost of the GFC500. GTN 750Xi $16,889 GTN 650Xi $11,589 GMA 345 Bluetooth Audio Panel and Marker beacon. $1,989. I like this because of the '3D Audio'. You can run the output from radio 1 to your left ear while the output of radio 2 goes to your right ear. I've never used that, since I haven't flown since the 80s, but to me, listening to Garmin's demo of it, it's pretty impressive. If you want to stay completely in the Garmin family, the GFC-500, which is certified for the T-210N, starts at $8,400 Backup instruments. G5 with lightning protection is $2,725 Two antennas, a GA35 GPS/WAAS for $339 and a GA37 XM/WAAS for $650 You'll get WAAS antennas and an XM combined in the second one. The GAP 26 PMA Angle of Attack Probe, giving you that AOA display on the G3X display. $1,025 Add a couple of USB outlets to the panel, $800-$1,200+ You're looking at about $68,000 just for that list, and that doesn't include installation. That's Garmin Let's say you want to go with Aspen and Avidyne. Evolution 2500 MAX package. $18,000 Consider keeping your EFD 1000 display for the co-pilot's side, and upgrade that to the MAX upgrade. $5,000 Avidyne IFD550 $21,200 This would replace a GNS-530, only a lot more sophisticated. Avidyne IFD440 $14,200 This would replace your GNS-430, again, only a lot more sophisticated. There is a GNS-430 to IFD440 upgrade package for $1,000 less than the IFD-440 alone. S-Tec 3100 $17,000 This package, without any options and without any installation, comes to about $74,400. Drop the $5,000 for the EFD1000 upgrade and you're real close to the Garmin cost. Personally, at this point, I would go with the Garmin package. You probably want a new panel built, are going to want to get all the old wiring behind the panel cleared out and redone for new avionics, either Garmin or Aspen/Avidyne. I think either way you're looking at it, this is going to cost you in the vicinity of $100,000 or so to completely redo the whole panel. My personal opinion is that you go 'whole hog' if you can, and be done with it. That way, you're not going to be chasing down weird faults and stuff, and everything just works together. This is my opinion, of course. However, you do it, I wish you good luck.

Think you have the 430 for the GPS, my dad and I had a 530 in the arrow and put an Avidyne 540 as a direct replacement. Awesome unit, liked it better than Garmin 750 I used as a flight instructor.

So its all about what do you want to spend and what preferences do you have. I like Garmin and yes it is the most expensive but its also the best. They spend time researching what people want and how the user interface will work. I have installed and flown aircraft with all these avionics. Im also not one of the guys who started flying with a G1000 I started round dial with old Narco 12D radios. The two best autopilots out there are Garmin and STEC they both work. The STEC 3100 has had lots of problems on the roll out. ASPEN is a budget unit and its been a one trick pony but it works. The main difference you will find is the support you get from the different vendors. Garmin has spare most things on the shelf. STEC you need your servo repaired you might be waiting months but with Garmin your waiting 2 days for a part almost always. Again its all about how much do you want to spend and what are your preferences. I tell everyone to fly airplanes that have different stuff and see what you like. I still don't get this talk about touch screen vers buttons in turbulence. I still had problems pushing buttons in turbulence. Touch screen is just a different kind of button. Point is buy what makes you happy just do your research and try out the different avionics. In the end its your airplane and you need to be happy with it, no one elses opinion truly matters.

Garmin is like a monopoly... I'd be happy with anything functional that they don't make

Its tough decisions. I have flown behind a mix of all and listened to the talks and customers just as most have I think Aspen has the edge on being a pilot company and providing better customer service. In my opinion and experiences

That is the exact reason I like Avidyne and really want to put Aspen in my arrow. Garmin you are stuck with only there products there autopilot etc. plus if I put the E5 in and want to upgrade in the future I don’t lose out on my investment I can still use the E5 but with Garmin the G5s if you want to add glass you throw the G5s away they have no use. Investment wise it doesn’t make sense to pay the big bucks for Garmin.

I love aspen but the autopilot comparability and failures of the rsm are issues that they need resolved that is hindering growth. I am happy that aspen and trio functionality is now available but we need more choices with a modern autopilot and means dealing with Garmin. Faa certification for new system has apparently become more difficult so that stumping development and competition just my opinion.

G,day Dan from Sydney Australia. My nickel on the grass. Retail price and compatibility aside. Heading selector and VNAV large and different for times of 'high workload'. The speed and altitude tape lager numbers. Then there is the issue of servo motors and signal installation to control surfaces e.g accessibility, availability and logistical cost. 🌏🇦🇺

Why aren't you considering dynon HDX? It is certified for cessna 201 and you can do a direct replacement of the 430 with the avadine ifd and add whatever certified autopilot of your choice. Dynon just added something similar to Garmin smart glide and that is a great safety feature

aspen...learning curve reduced..you know the button logic already. With a new autopilot why add another system to learn. seems that the stec-3100 interfaces to aspen not garmin 3x.

Love your videos

You want to be happy with your Honda Motorcycle purchase but you really wanted the Harley...you won't satisfy your affirmations until you have the Harley...you ultimately will spend far less money getting the Harley instead of the Honda first and then the Harley. Get the Harley (Garmin) you won't be disappointed.

Garmin hands down

I know you know Martin Pauly because I met him at one of your recording sessions. Martin is probably the best informed on avionics that I have come across. He was originally big on Avidyne but he’s switched to Garmin/Aspen. I know you want your own video but I’d really talk to Martin about your best step forward.

When you were at the Aspen booth, I don’t think you mentioned the most important thing, autopilot. What do they have to offer?

I'm all for the little guy beating the big guys, especially with the high prices and complacency that affect much of GA, but Aspen making small displays is not the way to beat Garmin. And by his own admission their prices are similar despite being a hodgepodge of small units. What Aspen should do is make a large display that contains everything. Obviously the radio and the 'nav' unit which is trivial functionality that should never be a separate unit and autopilot control (not the physical actuator system) etc. It should obviously be in one combined unit. Discrete units is such unintelligent legacy thinking and leads to ridiculous greed/cost because they charge grotesque prices for trivial functionality. GTN750 is 18k$ and has a lot of redundant functionality with the main display. You'll notice that the Garmin units they give to aircraft makers like G1000, 600 etc are such integrated units, they don't do the dumb legacy collection of separate units. Radio is not a challenge for modern electronics. All the radio channels needed in GA is maybe 50$ of real cost. How does that become a collection costing 60k$ plus install. Dynon has a 12" unit now. Aspen should start at 12" and have 16 and 20" versions. all in one. And synthetic vision should be the dominant feature. No speed or altitude tape, no compass rose legacy garbage cluttering the display. And price is at less than 10k because it costs less than 1k to make. Then Garmin would be scrambling

How much for every Garmin subscription? Pretty sure Aspen includes alot more for less

Hey Dan. How come "In the Hanger " is not actually in a hanger? I'm sure Lola wouldn't mind shaing!! Enough stupid fun. Enjoy the content. Thanks!!!

Hello from Jamestown ny

But $ does play. 18:21

What about Dynon, AeroCruz AP, or Uavionix? I don’t have anything against Garmin other than price. I do think the brand has become dogmatic for some, particularly installers which tarnishes the Garmin brand further. I hate being pushed a product that I have repeatedly said I can’t afford. I’m currently in the same position… wishing to upgrade my 1970s avionics (I don’t even have GPS) but I can’t decide to go all in or piece mill. i.e. go with Dynon SkyView 7” or 2 AV30s with an Electronics International 30c/p for an engine monitor. I think there is show there Dan.

This was awesome Dan. Thanks

talk to Martin Pauly

My only thing with glass panels is with today’s technology WHY, for the Love of God…can’t they do something about how Hot these things get? Sometimes they almost get too hot to touch.

Where the fastest jet crashed

Trig makes nice nav/com radios

Garmin is great, but they need to clean up their licenses management system and the app for the PC is a mess.