@@WowRixter The duo shi aren't for sale on their site anymore, so Im guessing within the next 3 months. I'd be surprised if it's longer. They've obvious scaling issues with manufacturing atm though I think.
@@stephenbetley9596 Never having held one of the MX pedals in my hand, just going from Llama's excellent reviews, it would seem that they could use the same spindle and swap out for SPD/PD, or LOOK pedal bodies
As someone that's run way too many Garmin warranties, I don't even wanna be near them when I'm getting paid to be in their company. So I definitely don't wanna actually buy their gear. I have due to limited options and they've never even met my low expectations
@@veganpottertheveganas someone that has crazy amount of Garmin gear and 0 problems ever....also have ridden about 3000 miles with the rally xc had 0 issues.....certainly not buying a product from company that has 1 product out there. Plus everything works with one app. See zero benefit going to ass pro
I used mine for 2500hrs/ 74000km since 2017. No dropouts, no inacurracy. Battery charging intervalls are getting shorter. But still in like 3 month of riding!
17:09 as someone who works in IT, I read that message as the polite version of 'there's nothing wrong with the equipment, you're not using it correctly' 🙂... It's all those super powerful sprints llama, you're overpowering the equipment 😎.
During a ride I seem to regularly experience similar random drops to 0W with my RS200's while maintaining a steady 90rpm cadence at much more modest ~200W power-numbers . @GPLama where can I file a similar complaint at Garmin, to confirm it's not only you experiencing this strange Vector/Rally power dropout behavior? Please advice
Swappable Pedal bodies was the feature that made me buy Rally Pedals when they came out. At that time, I had only a gravel bike and wanted to get a power meter. Pedals were the best option in my view, as they can be switched between bikes - if I ever decided to buy another bike. And the Rally XC were the only SPD Power Pedals at that time. A couple months later I bought a road bike, so I got a set of RK Pedal bodies to be able to have power on both bikes without buying another set of pedals (or another power meter). I regularly swapped bodies (like weekly) and that worked pretty good for me. Though I got fed up with the hassle and after I broke the small contact on a battery cover, I bought a whole set of Rally RK pedals when I found one on sale. So yeah, now I have 2 sets of Rally pedals (both dual-sided). Today, I'd probably go for the Assiomas instead. Or the new Look power pedals.
Time and time again the Favero Assioma power meter pedals beat the competition not only on price but on accuracy and functionality. Why anyone would buy any other power meter pedal is beyond me. I've had mine for about 4 years now and they're still amazing and as accurate as ever. Thanks for the review and for reinforcing Favero's dominance in the market.
GP Llama I have followed you for many years now and enjoy your content. You have always given a fair and balanced report on the items you test. In these days of influencers (if I can call you one ) you have a massive following and the company that ignores your comments do so at their peril. I hope that the company will read my comment together with other cyclist and reconsider their position and comment made in the letter to you. Keep on doing your deep dives into products as I’m sure your work is raising standards in the industry.
Great comparison (as per usual), ASSIOMA PRO MX could offer a time travel function as well, but as no one can buy them (never any stock anywhere) it's all pointless
I have purchased Garmin Rally 200 for all my bikes because it is all Garmin compatible with all my garmin devices without compromise or the risk of various possible surprises in the form of future updates or patent disputes.
I bought a XC200 back in April and they presented an issue with battery drain seven months later. Garmin (or better, the Garmin representative in Brazil) replaced them in less than a week. Now, they seem to be working fine. I keep track of battery duration and the ones that came with the pedals lasted 104 hours. Current pair are working for 94 so far. About cadence drops, didn't notice anything. Love the pedals but, if I was buying pedals today the Faveros seems to be a no brainer.
When I got my Rally XC's a few years back I REALLY wish Favero would have had the Pro MX's. I loved my Assiomo Duo's for road and did the various hacks (from here!) which worked mostly but wasn't a fan of shaving off bits of my shoes. Garmin's app, yeah, I despise it. Having to drill down and remember where things are (I also have a watch from them) is frustrating and I just want to grab data as fast as possible without packing a lunch. I loved Favero's simplicity and single minded approach to the product and miss it, a lot. That being said, after watching this I most definitely will be going back to Favero. THANKS SHANE!
My Assioma’s are on their way mate!!! Fingers crosssdd they’ll be here on the Sunny Coast next week. They are going to be a great addition to my Scott Spark 900 Tuned. Thanks for your work Shane. You have helped me a lot in choosing gear for my very amateur MTBing career. Cheers bud. 🦙
It is common in the technical documentation to state the specification x7 only, because if it meets 7 water resistance, it is unnecessary to state the category of resistance to ingress of dust.
"I don't wanna be too much of a prick"..... Haha love it! I'm sold on the Favero's now, can't wait to get some. Ruined my hacked Assioma's the other month changing the bodies, and threaded the right side. Forgot it was reverse thread, doh.
I have the assiomo duo pedals and I’m extremely happy with the data I get with them. I did the Xpedo SPD hack featured in one of your videos and they are perfect for the gravel riding I do. I did have to replace the Xpedo bearings after about 5k miles but I’ve ridden in some seriously nasty condition and Probably should have serviced them earlier. It was a $30 reset/ no biggie. I’m going to get a pair of the new Pro duo’s when they become available. I’ve been putting off buying a new pair of gravel shoes just so I didn’t have to notch them for the inner power assembly on my existing set. Great tech, function well.
No wonder Garmin haven’t got reports of the cadence drop because there are only a select few who actually do that to a certain standard (they know who they are). Good there is competition now as those Garmin pedals are about 2x the price they should be imo. Some exciting options in the market now and the 4iiii with Apple Find My device is very tempting for me!
I have the Garmins and can't stand them. They may have very different expenses than Favero though so it's really hard to just say they should cost half as much.
I've been using my Vector three (left hand only) spindle's since they became available in 2018 and "upgraded" to Rally XC bodies when that became an option. So I share your ambivillance. They have served me very well - especially in training and controlling my power on early days of multi-day bikepacking rides when it would have been very easy to have gone way too hard too early if riding on feel. But. They have also had "quirks" with drop out, strange spiked readings towards the end of battery life, and a lack of complete reliability. Its not that they have failed me, far from it. But if there is another pedal on the market that has resolved these issues and improved on the Garmin offer, I will be looking there as I look to replace my pedals now that are reaching the end of their rather long lifespan...
@@gplamaWhen I can find them I use CR1/3N, but even in Brussels "the Capital of Europe" they're not easy to source so mostly it's been two LR44 instead I can buy easily...
The part that has me riled up is thay garmin hasnt touched the tech in 7 years and they still think they can charge some insane mark-up for the same old thing (which apparently never functioned properly to begin with). This is not serving the customer, it's just attempting to take advantage of a lack of competition. Thank you Assioma for doing what tech is supposed to do, make progress!
I've had the dual sided Favero's on my road bike for over a year now. Great pedals, super reliable and cheaper than the competition. If they got damaged, I would buy them again over any other pedal or crank power meter setup.
This is exactly why we need dedicated people like yourself to dig in to the over priced products that don't do what they say on the box. Champion effort Shane
I got rid of my Rally XC. Best decision I made. They were squeaky pieces of crap. Apparently it’s common. The Faveros weren’t out when I did, so I went to a crank based pm and Shimano spd pedals.
Thanks for the review, I am so glad I held off buying the Garmin ones as it was only a matter of time that Favero would release an SPD pedal power meter. Love their look compatible ones that I have on my road bike. Looks like you got a dose of Garmin arrogance. I have had so much trouble getting details from them, Just waiting for my Garmin computer to wear out before switching to Wahoo. Not going to buy a new Tacx as they are now owned by Garmin,
Don’t apologize for finding problems. You glossed over all the dropout issues with the vector petals not to mention the battery door issues. After a few years of using the vectors, the plastic bodies started to wear away such that my foot wobbled in the pedal. I’m very happy with Assiomas now
Oval chainrings, when mounted in the intended position, reduces variation in angular velocity compared to round chainrings. Time spent in the position at about 90/270 degrees increases, while time at around 0/180 decreases.
Really disappointed with Garmin, I really love the asterisk of the pedal not having a pod and just looking like an average pedal. I have wanted to buy them for a few years, but they never seem to just fix the few issues they have with them. Do you think Favero will have a no pod road pedal soon? I know you know 😂
You'd think that companies would recognize the size of your audience and not just brush off your concerns in such a way. Doesn't really strike me as the kind of company that really is willing to respond to customer concerns. Super happy with my two crank spider power meters (Sigeyi AXO and Magene P505) that I bought primarily based on your recommendations, so if I ever switched to pedal based power I know which one I'd be going with as an SPD rider.
There have been at least 5 revisions of the Vector/ Rally battery door that we have seen. Likewise with Powertap (even though the last versions on those are called V3). Having rechargeable batteries gets rid of those problems.
the saving grace for garmin for now, is the shimano SL cleet :) I own a set of garmin rally's and it's the one thing holding me back from jumping on the favero wagon
Rotational weight doesn't make any performance difference. News flash - we don't accelerate as fast as we think we do. Weight is weight. Oh and also, those Garmin pedals are rubbish regardless of weight lol. Great review as always Sir Lama.
I am very happy with my v3...they are within 3 watts in average compared to my neo1, which is one of the most accurate pm out there. I use cr 1/3n batteries which last about 150 hours.
Well.. it is in line with my experience with a lot of Garmin products i used in the last 10-15 years. Lots of flaws and bugs that never get resolved, only in a new product that then again has different flaws. And lets not talk about easy usability on the software side of things in their apps, watches, gpses, cyclingcomputers. Getting a bit better though, but slowly..
Thank you Shane love your passion and honestly- I do love Garmin products and was thinking of buying the rally SPD pedals and now I am not considering they are very expensive and don’t deliver the functionality as you have mentioned in your video.
I am not in the market for a power meter pedal but I did enjoy your video. Not pulling punches is your style and I truly appreciate it. Great video! One question, which has a better life due to abuse, crank based or pedal???
I have some garmin rally and not happy. I need tk do some cross testing but I have been riding with power for a long time and I swear the garmin are a solid 30w avg low vs quarq,. Sigeyi etc. Planning to go for assioma I think in future! Great vid as always Monsignor lama!
First set of Garmin’s- battery door constantly loose and squeaked loudly no matter the shoe. Second set my cleats would swim around no matter the tightness adjustment making them difficult to unclip from. Third set I sold new and bought crank based power. Wish I had the Assioma option because my road pedals have been flawless. Garmin rally needs to discontinue these.
My Rally XC bearing died after a lot of riding after 1 year. Battery life is quite great but thats it. Let's see what the Warranty-Service at Garmin does to solve this. I will try Favero for sure, they worked quite fine on my roadbike the last years. Garmin-NO Favero-Yes
If you find yourself in a pinch for some fresh batteries for your Garmin pedals, battery world in Cairns carries the CR1/3Ns, so likely would in your neck of the woods. In saying that, I can't imagine they're turning them over particularly quick, so could be well aged.
thanks for this video! I just wondering if SPD/MTB power meter is a thing for me and here comes a bulk of interesting insights! PS.: That makes me also wonder why Garmin didn't send you the Neo3 for testing ;-)
Thanks for the great video! Since they have this great version of a SPD pedal, I wonder if they have an equally great updated SPD-SL version in the makes?
It seems only logical that they would, though Shane is obviously not going to be able to answer that question. If they come out being spindle-compatible with the Pro MX (meaning you can simply buy a second set of pedal bodies and have both SPD and SPD-SL), they'd really be eating Garmin's lunch. Which again, seems like a pretty logical next step.
I specifically bought the duo shi to build some spd power meters (with some deore xt t8000 bodies, or later changing to dual sided deore xt bodies) using a special made metal spacer. I specifically got them because I NEED the greater Q-factor. I was using SQLAB wide SPD pedals before. And tbh, considering me paying below 500 € for dual sided SPD Power, I am more than fine missing PCO and the 10h of battery live.
09:13 it is absolutely fair.... 🤷🏻♂ and Assioma is the clear winner (actually not really surprising) Even upgrading from Garmin to Assioma make sense, when you get a good aftermarket price for the garmins. Now might be the right time... (nobody wants them later on) We are just in the begin of the year, but this might be the cycling product of the year. Definitely power meter of the year
Garmin's ho-hum response to your comments on the XC suggests their future attitude regarding their power meters in general - they have been overpriced all along and now that Assioma has come out with the superb Pro Mx, Garmin will have to decide if it wants to compete in that market and hope that the fewer people that see this review, the better, for them.
Garmin vectors got a lot of hate for their flawed pedal bodies (mainly the plastic battery compartment threads) and the problems with the battery housing, but to my experience, those issues were all fixed on later releases. I had no issues whatsoever after switching to Rally bodies, and I never experienced the cadence dropouts you are showing (my peak sprints appear fine), but the data you show is in fact worrying. However, there are now no valid reasons to buy the Rally, as the Favero are cheaper, lighter, and offer at least as mush functionality as the Rally (or even more), with a well known good customer service, so it is really a no brainer. Competition is always a good things as it will certainly force Garmin to adjust the prices, as they are now really overpriced as are the replacement parts. Also looking forward to see Keo and/or SPD-SL versions of the Favero with the new spindle as a refresh to the current Assioma and their bulky pods.
Assioma hands down! Not even close!!! The sad part is Garmin's higher price plus poor customer service, I really hope my Tacx Neo last a very long time because if it dies I'll be getting another brand. I jumped off the Garmin train long time ago.
Hey Shane, this is a fantastic video! I had been using a Vector 3S power meter, and my experience wasn't great. I kept encountering dropouts, and although Garmin support provided replacement products regularly, I reached a point where I had enough and switched to an Assioma Uno. I've never regretted it since! Now, I'm eager to buy the Assioma Pro MX pedals, but unfortunately, they're currently out of stock. I hope they'll be available soon! I find Garmin products to be quite overpriced - my local bike shop was pushing me to buy Rally XC pedals because they have them in-store and offered me a "discount," but considering Garmin's poor track record in terms of quality control and durability, I don't think it's worth it. I am wondering if you have any insight on when the Assioma MX pedals will be in stock?
@@gplama it came with a Quark. I think it is chain ring power meter. It is trouble free and always registers with wahoo head unit. It takes a coin based battery (maybe CR-2032) and the battery is protected by a rubber cover For the price and quality I don’t think any brand beats the Lauf for gravel bikes. The bike is amazing.
Unfortunately, I needed a power meter for my gravel bike before Assioma came to market and it was during COVID. I ended up buying Garmin Rally dual side. Because they were available when I took delivery of my new bike. I have always questioned the accuracy of the Garmin Rally. Sad because I am very invested in the Garmin “biosphere”. Bike computers, Enduro 2 and Descent MK2 watches, I even have a Garmin scale.
As a quick aside, do you know of any SPD pedal bodies that would fit on the duo shi? And would the bodies of the pro mx fit on them? Maybe one to test and a fun investigative video. Noticed Favero don't offficially sell the Duo Shi on their site any more. Have they officially discontinued it?
I get the impression that the big manufacturers are throwing a hissy over the little guys showing their products up. How dare you. Just buy our shit and be grateful. On a technical note the Garmin have the power in the body and electronics in the spindle. Under high torsional forces it's possible that power bridge is broken, hence zero cadence/power. Just a thought on why they think it's a resolution for a future product and one thing Favero have nailed. Keep up the good work, annnnd breathe.
Enjoy the deep dive into the details and appreciate the hours behind the scenes it takes to make these videos thanks shane 🦙. I had a similar vs with road pedals and purchased the Assioma duo road pedals based upon your issue and also reports of Garmin reccomending a manual offset every ride due to temp (sounds like they have improved this now via firmware which is good news) the Assioma's have been awesome and can't see why its worth spending more on the Garmin pedals
The temp compensation update to the Rally was something I contributed to after having issues when leaving the bike in the sun while having a coffee. One pedal was in the shade, the other in full sunlight. Caused some minor dramas. 😅 I wasn’t able to replicate it after they pushed a new firmware. 👌🏼
Great video. Going to throw my Rally’s on a bike with PM cranks and compare as well. Have had them replaced once already after one pedal completely died Do you have any issue with clipping in and out on your Rally XC? Mine work ok, but are way stiffer to clip in/out than my Shimanos. Not the spring tension, more that the cleat/pedal interface didn’t work as well together.
Thanks so much for this video Shane. This has been on my mind for a while now. Do you know if the SPD-SL assioma is due for an update soon, the spindle on the MX looks way better.
No word on what other pedal bodies Favero are possibly going to offer in the future. It was the first question I asked when seeing these new spindles too.
Great video :) sadly i got myself the single sided Garmin pedals last year, would have waited for the assioma's if i would have known:) so far the experience with the XC garmin pedals is okay but i notice some weird power readings now and then. Sometimes dropping as low as 90 to 100 watts in a few seconds to jump back up again later. calibration and settings are all done often... but so far i cant find the problem
Garmin support is usually really good given the suite of products they offer and is based in a regionally significant area over using outsourced India cellphone support. Shame that you experience didn't go that way. And yeah Garmin is not right for saying that since this issue is being brushed away since it was replicated on only one product because nobody is going to be buying a second redundant product that is effectively doing the same thing as the first not exactly groundbreaking to begin with when you are priced your products well in 4 figures. Please I beg of you Garmin, make your product $500 MSRP and availability for popular local retailers for markets with at least 1mil+ population. So absurd that retailers can sell all of your bike computers and other equipment but are always out of stock with the Garmin Rallys. At the end of the day they are both power meters so it isn't like it is an earth-shattering night and day difference so I'd say that puts more weight on the areas that would be concerning for you like supporting local retailers, support, or even price alone.
No problems with cadence drops on my Rally XC, but I couldn’t sprint the skin off a rice pudding 😅😂 Having said that if I were looking for a MTB xc and gravel pedal I would be buying the Assiomo
Great comparison - as usual. Do you expect Favero will introduce a SPD SL without the "pod" anytime soon. Just picked up a new road bike, and need to add power meter.Thx!
The issues with the powder/cadence dropping makes me wonder: does that also happen when the pedals are combined with the dedicated cadence sensor that straps to the crank arm? When I bought my Garmin edge device, it came as a bundle with speed, cadence and heart rate sensor. I only purchased the pedals later. I didn't even realise that the pedals themselves measured cadence. Unfortunately the garmin device and app are very unclear about whether data for cadence or speed is being pulled from the dedicated sensors or the GPS/pedals. I'm more of a recreational/weekend rider myself, favouring endurance cycling over hard sprints so I've never noticed any of these issues... then again, I've never bothered to look into the data that deeply.
Very interested in getting a pair of the Faveros for my gravel bike but wondering how they would hold up on my MTB are there durability issues with a lot of pedal striking with pedal power meters? I mtb in very rocky terrain and my cranks and pedals take a beating.
I use the XC100 (single sided) & do not have the expertise to identify the sprint drop-outs (happy to share files if you ever need for comparison though)? That being said, I am still very happy with the product as pairs seamlessly with the head unit(s). My only gripe: why does Garmin not allow some form of realtime battery (remaining) capacity indication for head units? Even on Garmin Connect it only ever states "Battery OK" or "Not connected" - well duh, the battery was completely flat!
Does the Favero pedal capture power phase datapoints like their road pedal version? From your testing I would say Favero is the winner on both $$$ and technical superiority. When will they be back in stock?😁 Thanks Shane!!!
Garmin have become too corporate to be worried about a single RU-vid video casting shade on one of many products they make. They don't sell things they sell their brand it seems.
I would select the assimo all day over Garmin because that’s what they do, make pedals. The pedal market for Garmin is probably their smallest product market and gets the least focus and investment. But their pedals are still good. Your comment misses the mark and makes you sound more like a “scorned lover” vice an educated consumer.
I am wondering would a separate cadence sensor help to come by those dropouts? You would then have two connected cadence sensors for your ride. What I don't know is if then one sensor will be overruling the other or are reported values be merged by Garmin Connect in the end (does anyone know)?
I can't knock Garmin support, they have taken care of me on several occasions. However, when they have a bug that has to trickle back into the development/progamming teams they are stubborn and generally pretty useless. My guess if the product is selling well, they just figure it is not the place to put resources. It does make me consider the competition with my $.
I was wondering if you made a video of your pedal stroke? Maybe the issue has something to do with the smoothness of your pedal rotation? Is it possible your stroke is confusing the pedal? Listening to the audio of your gritting teeth sprint I can hear the rotation stalls clearly. Just to ensure this is not the issue maybe you can get someone you know with a very smooth pedal stroke to test them...
Hello. Do you think that favero will release a new powermeter for road bikes soon? Am about to buy one and concerned that the new one is coming out soon
Interesting issue with the Garmin cadence dropouts during sprints. I've been using the Vector 3 dual sided and Rally XCs dual - both within a couple months after they came out on the market - and I've never seen this issue. I've used my Vectors both on road and at the velodrome and my sprints are in the range of 1600-1800 watts over 5 seconds. I've used my Rallys for CX racing with starts being over 1400 watts. Maybe I'm just lucky and got 2 good sets of pedals?
Expecting a product to work and having the company give BS answers is typical these days. Clearly, they know of the issue yet decide that the proper answer may hurt their company. And then their second response is to “blame you”. Shame on you Garmin.
How do the Favero pedals perform in sticky and thick mud? Specifically thinking of CX scenarios where multiple dismounts and remounts leave a pedal absolutely packed and caked with mud. Many pros are rumoured to ride XT over XTR based on their ability to better shed the stuff in races. When pedals get caked, slamming your cleat into the pedal can be the only way to knock dirt off and clip back in. Not exactly ideal treatment of a power meter 😂 Do you have any info about Favero having tested their pedals in CX scenarios?
Are there any reported issues about not receiving a low battery warning for the Rallys? I only get one after it's already gone dead after I stop my ride. I also only get about 65-70 hours. Nowhere near the up to 120 hours. My battery went dead after 23min of my ride with battery reporting as OK on the previous ride. 2 months in between rides. So possibly battery drain while not riding
Hello Shane, I have some questions that may shed some light on the Garmin. 1, Did the Garmin work in the sprint before conversion to Rally? 2. DC Rainmaker had his review and found the Garmin pretty matched the Pro Mx in power comparison. Is it possible you might have a pedal set with an issue? Could DC Rainmaker duplicate your testing with his pedals. Could you guys swap Garmin pedals and see if the problem follows the pedal set?
Two sets with the same problem is quite the coincidence. DCR has his Rally RS with him this week and we happen to be hanging out, so I’ll see if I can replicate the issue with his set.
@@gplama I didn't realize or pickup that you had the same issue on 2 sets of Garmin pedals. If the DCR set exhibits the same issue then you have more data to send back to Garmin, but will they listen? I am looking forward to the further testing you two will be conducting. Great channel, keep up the great work!
Surprisingly not a suggestion they came back with. Having installed power pedals 100s (maybe 1000s) of times, I’m pretty confident that isn’t the issue. Happy to retest…. When I find an affordable torque wrench rated for 30-40Nm.
