Gatekeeping and the lost art of "Agreeing to Disagree" 

Goddamn right. And afterwards I cut that mask out and wore it all around the house. Totally agree with you dude.

They will R2meToo his ass

​@@John_Locke_108 YOUUUU PROMISSSED MEEEE FLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSHHHHH

a comment i wrote in here that works well in tandem for your point. the "agree to disagree" point is a double edge sword. in most instances it simply means "we both are not gonna shift our ground so might as well go our separate ways" which is pretty much what it implies meant for (and this instance the proper use you used it for with the person who emailed you). however i have seen other instances where its been used "i don't want to engage with point so i am saying this to end the conversation" which feels incomplete and prone to another argument down the line. Very typical in narcissists i've hung around with who: state something, someone points a counter argument, dismisses the argument without engaging the counter point, the argument is bough up sometime down the road.

While it's certainly true that there are people who will defend anything to death and not even accept minor criticism to it, there equally are people who are bitter and will try and talk anything down and not accept it has any positive qualities it might have. It's an issue on both sides. And as usual the truth is somewhere in the middle, few things are flawless and few things are unsalvageable. And especially now that a lot of SW content is being made, there's bound to be things that fall anywhere alonf that spectrum. Another thing to keep in mind that I think "elitists" on both sides forget: it's perfectly fine to like something that's "bad", or to dislike something that's "good". Sometimes things just aren't for you. I loved the Ahsoka show, because that kind of space fantasy/mystical is something I've always liked, and the show features some of my favorite characters. But I can also fully agree that it features some questionable aspects, like it's slow start or needless lightsaber stabbing survival. On balance, for me that means I still really enjoyed it. But I can fully understand that someone who's not as fond of the shows themes or characters wouldn't see it that way.

It probably has something to do with the fact that "agree to disagree" really is just another way of saying one of 2 things: * "You've managed to convince me, but I don't have the integrity or guts to admit I'm wrong, so I'll stop arguing." * "I don't agree, but I also don't want to argue anymore, so I'm disengaging from this conversation." Either way, it's a copout intended to get out of the conversation.

@@immortalfrieza That might be true when talking about matters of fact. But opinions aren't objective. I can like something you don't and we can both be valid in having that opinion, so nobody has to change theirs.

Exactly there is almost no point to even having an official canon now. Feel free to cherry pick only the good content that makes you happy but it still hurts that this happened to Star Wars within 10 years

@@AndreNitroX That's what I've done. I pick and choose what I like, and to me that's Star Wars. I did that way back with Return of the Jedi, and in my head canon the Ewoks are actually Wookies. That makes it all make sense. Still, ROTJ has some of the best Star Wars, with the throne room scene and the Endor space battle.

I agree Disney Star Wars is not great and has many issues, but KK was picked by George. He opened the gate.

Star Wars was at its best when George wasn't paying attention to it. After the New Era and before the EU destroyed itself.

Agree 💯 👍 I certainly feel the same with Doctor Who and Battlestar Galactica.

That's the attitude that led us here, with multiple destroyed franchises. Star Wars, Star Trek, Marvel, DC, The people invading this fandoms and destroying them are doing so for the sake of destroying them. The moment you stop fighting them you get Disney Star Wars. Its a standard Marxist tactic. Happy people don't revolt, so destroy everything that makes people happy.

Many newer 40k fans are refugees from star wars, and to an extent, they have been welcomed as long as they understand the drastic threat the franchise is in. There are to many people who have jump to 40k because it is rapidly becoming one of the last bastions of fandom like LOTR and because of that the eyes of those who have destroyed everything else are finally looking to them. At some point a line needs to be drawn though by us good decent people who want our properties to stay the way they are and that time is rapidly approaching where we must put on the armour of contempt and wield the sword of Fury. Humanity cannot survive without unifying cultures and the goal of these people is to destroy the old culture for a sick parady of one. Star wars is lost but those who have fled to other properties must do what they can to support the original vision of them so they are stronger than before. Only united in mind and purpose against these cultural locusts do we stand a chance.

Saw the first Star Wars in 77, so long time fan. I couldn’t agree more.

Took the words out of my keyboard.

This says it perfect…

Too late then because its infested with those people already.

Depends what you consider the core aspects of a series. To one person the core of a thing might be miniscule, to others it might be 60% of the product. I've always taken the stance that a product should always be for anyone, but not be for everyone. If its for everyone its diluted to the point of nothingness and is not actually for anyone.

@@DavidWalker1987 everyone knows what the core aspects of Star Wars are. I think the main thing is as long as you like Star Wars because you genuinely like it it’s all good. The people who claim to like it then argue that ahsoka actually is bi or obi wan is clearly gay I don’t think are genuine fans. That’s just me.

That's the fault of the parents. My 8 year old daughter was introduced to Star Wars via despecialized versions of the Original Trilogy. She's gonna experience the universe the way I did and when she's 22 years old I'll show her the Prequel trilogy.

just ignore it if that's what they enjoy let them enjoy it

Is it because your friend doesn't like the imperial era of star wars? Or maybe they don't like old films with dates special effects? I ask as your friend may very well like the story of the OT but just not gonna sit through an old film but you're taking it as a slight on the OT story

Gotta like the OT to like Star Wars. Otherwise you're a tourist.

@@TwoDollarGararge No. If you don't like the foundation of a thing, you don't like that thing. Its like saying "I like pizza, I just don't like crust, or sauce," You don't like pizza, you like CHEESE. Now, you can have pizza without pasta sauce, such as with pesto or olive oil, different kinds of cheese, etc. But the moment you leave out the crust, its no longer pizza, because that is what makes pizza pizza. They can enjoy the animated shows, but they aren't star wars fans. That's my wife. She doesn't like the movies but likes the animated series, she doesn't pretend at all to be a star wars fan, she's a Clone Wars and Rebels fan.

I love the show as far as I've watched(haven't finished it because of personal issues) but if you dont like it I'm not gonna hate on you and call you not a real fan because that's childish and stupid.

It’s interesting that Thor mentions our entry points as a big factor into what we like, but I also think personal taste is a huge thing. I’ve become very hyper-critical of story writing over the years, so something deep and thoughtful like the OT, Rogue One, and Andor really gets me going. Conversely, something I see as less thoughtful or thorough-like the sequels or the cartoons-doesn’t grab my attention. So a lot of it comes down to what you as a person find engaging in a story.

@swolecapybara personal taste is immensely important when it comes to star wars, for reasons I don't exactly know any story that has rebels fighting an empire for me is more or less not engaging from a story perspective, The OT and Rogue one did not grip me with its stories, its also the main reason I havent seen andor and don't care to see it

Same, i'm half and half with *Andor* it's a rather frustrating series for me because i just wish the series would actually delve deeper into this whole spy/espionage thriller type stuff. I wish the show did'nt have implied sex scenes and characters did Not say "Sh*t" in the series, because those things are just Not *Star Wars* to me. But i'm all for making a way more "Adult-oriented" Starwars series, in that it has a more serious tone, dark even, deals with more morally abiguous themes and grey areas. So all those things i really like about Andor, what i don't get is why Andor lacks any Alien Races on all the planets we go to in the series. I've watched thor's review and all his videos where he explains his reasons for why Andor has a serious lack of aliens, and i have to disagree and i've told thor skywalker that he is wrong in that regard; because while the show is set at the height of the Empire's reign in the Galaxy, and just how xenophobic they were, there would still be plenty of alien races around and i counted literally 3 in the entire series. And when i looked it up and googled this issue of the show, i was shocked to find out Andor showrunner and writer tony gilroy chose not to have any alien characters because he finds them stupid. So this just isn't good enough in my strong opinion and viewpoint as a passionate starwars fan, and i even raised this fact to thor skywalker and he's never mentioned it; which is honestly fair enough but i do think thor's favoritism and bias in favor of Andor clouds his own judgement regarding this issue. He so wants more fans to love Andor, more and more as many as possible; but i'm afraid if thor actually stepped outside his own channel, his own "echochamber" no and again, he would actually see the truth; that these are issues alot of other fans/Starwars youtubers have with the show. I mean these were my own main issues that irk me with Andor and prevent me from giving it a full 5 star approval rating and say it's really excellent. Writing production quality, actors performances, all that is spot on. But i'm the kind of passionate fan that if a series or movie is lacking in certain areas i'm gonna call out what exact issues i have with it, and explain those issues as the main reason why i can't give that thing a full 100%. Fans like myself always get missunderstood as "oh you'll always find something to hate in starwars or you'll never be happy no matter what they bring us." And the classic - "No one hates starwars more than starwars fans" lol. And i do get that, it's a rather ignorant statement because it misses the point, at end of the day us "Passionate Starwars Fans" we just want *Star Wars* to be the Best it can be and for EVERY Creative that is given the honor of working on their own starwars series, or making their own starwars film, to basically ALWAYS respect how George Lucas envisioned his *Star Wars*, and strive to be faithful to his storytelling sensibilities. Putting SEX into Starwars or Gratituous, gory *Violence* in starwars is Not *Star Wars*. If you're a talented director who truly knows how to shoot a scene and convey what is happening, you would know when to cut away, or shoot something like someones head being cut off or hand/arm by a lightsaber and not specifically show all the detail, full on. So this is why i'm really just against some scenes in Andor showing characters waking up in bed, doesnt sound like much, sure it's only eluding to, but it's still implied Sex, and things like that are what signal and allow other creatives to come in and take it further in future shows or movies. then some years later, we suddenly end up with two sweaty characters literally getting it on, IN A Starwas movie or series. So yeh those things just don't ever belong in starwars imo. SEX is EVERYWHERE! In everything today we don't need it in something as unique and just wholesome as Starwars. My argument here is really that you can make a *Star Wars* story purely for Adults, with a much darker and serious tone, you don't need actual sex in there though. Kissing and romance is fine and that's it. But that's just my own strong feelings on the matter, if Gilroy could improve on these specific issues i have with the series Andor in season 2, i'm sure i could absolutely grow to love it.

Now replace Andor with "The Rise Skywalker" ...

This cuts both ways. Nowadays, you have fools saying that only guys can enjoy Star Wars. This isn't even remotely true as shown by female fans like Naboo on this channel. It's fools like this that play into the "Star Wars fans are sexist" stereotype.

If you are arguing quality, I say, stand your ground. If "they" are arguing for representation, do know that representation isn't antithetical to quality. I'm a former MCU fan. I was critical of the quality dive MCU's been taking and several fans branded me as sexist or bigoted too. The thing is, I'M in _favor_ of representation. I do want more women, LGBT and minorities in the MCU. It's not a good look to representation if quality was better when everything was led by the straight white males. Another thing is, bigotry do exist in fandoms. Genuine criticism get mixed up in them and it's infuriating.

@@ThePrinceofHisOwnKingdom Anyone who says that a film is bad" because the cast and/or directors aren't White guys is not to be taken seriously. And there have indeed been MCU "fans" who have made such statements of late.

Are you misrepresenting the argument a little? I've never heard anyone say Andor is a bad show in of itself who have watched it all the way through... most of the argument is it's not Star Wars, or it may be too slow for them, but the show is well done and may not match their tastes... that's ok.

@@MedalionDS9there are definitely people saying Andor isnt a good tv show. I saw negative comments around Andor getting nominated for an Emmy.

@@MedalionDS9 There are people in the comments of this video saying it. It's been happening ever since the show premiered.

Do they say they watched the whole show and genuinely feel that way, or were they just trolling or just watched only a few eps and gave up? That's not what I am talking about, I am talking people who gave it a fairshot.@@John_Locke_108

@@MedalionDS9 Couldn't tell you. They probably quit.

Yeah, you could call that tourism: people who peruse franchises that they don't care about but want to impose their standards or supposed morals, or modern audience marketing to exploit the IP for it's popularity and in-built audience while trying to "reform" it into something they prefer.

But that's the rub, when done correctly. Gatekeeping is like the Force it has a light and dark side to it. Yoda said it best: more powerful no, more suductive the dark side is. Gatekeepers are human and some should never take that role or else you have Gatekeepers with radical opinions. Gatekeeping should be done with extreme caution when it comes to saying who is allowed in or not.

@@StickNikSounds like a lot of people who want ‘homogenized’ entertainment instead of things that are outside their ‘comfort zone’. Example: I love Breaking Bad, it’s my favorite TV show. I also love Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. They are virtually two very different shows, and I would never want one to be like the other. Why? They have their own identities and qualities that make them unique and give them their charm.

Absolutely. I hesitated to say it at first, but while adding new stories to the mythos is absolutely welcome, anyone that goes out of their way to criticize or correct the past stories are just disrespectful and love their opinions more than they love the art. Sorry to say it, but this is why rumors of a What If show worries me. Fans goofing off, contemplating the different choices and their consequences is fine, but Disney is just gonna use it as a license to vandalize whatever stories they want and say "It isn't canon", when we all know they very much want Leia to be another Captain Marvel, or making their pet characters god (making right and wrong suddenly revolving around them).

@@ThreadBareHope1234 I really miss the days when such wasn't the case...

Yes why have people that know nothing about Star Wars making Star Wars!? It makes no sense and it is offensive like any other franchise.

I think there's two different things here. 1. Keeping bad creators from having creative input on the franchise, especially those who don't like/appreciate/understand why fans love the franchise and want to "reimagine" it in ways fans don't want. (Totally necessary to keep them out.) 2. Dealing with people who claim to be new fans of a franchise, but don't actually like it and are really just hoping to take over and boot out long-term fans. Here, the important thing is to not let these people be in charge. Some may become real fans over time. Others, when they see they can't take over, will get bored and go away.

We should’ve gatekept harder

There lies the problem, you have no power because you own nothing, so how are you going to gatekeep the owners when they have all the power?😂

Gatekeep what? Ya’ll really act like Star Wars isn’t the most popular mainstream franchise to exist. It’s always been mainstream, and it continues to follow the mainstream of generic appeal to broad audiences. Star Wars will always follow the mainstream, though there are some exceptions that stick out like Andor

Knights of the fallen empire & Eternal Throne are two of the best Star Wars stories compared to some of the movies/shows imo.

It's Disney trash.

Saying "agree to disagree" always seemed like a giant middle finger. Feels dismissive if you really think about it. However it is fun to say it and then walk away.

@jxchamb not everything needs to be a fight, we don't all need to agree

that era is over the internet aka lack of face to face interaction and profiting off it has killed that

@@GoddessOfWhim2003 Then we simply disagree and walk away. Maybe it's because I am not an English (or American) native, but this concept of "agree to disagree" is foreign to me. Just disagree and be done.

@UltimateTobi as a non-English American, you understand it perfectly. that's basically agree to disagree, disagree and walk away

Totally disagree because it reeks of modern politics snuck in and the fact that we already knew Andor in Star Wars: Rogue One.

@@mazkeraid4039 Not sure what you are on about. The politics in Andor are a direct outgrowth of stuff set up in the prequels and explored in the OT. Lucas himself said Star Wars was inspired by the US involvement in Vietnam. Star Wars has always been political.

@@jimdaniels7531the original comment said modern politics not historical politics. Plus Star Wars is much more subtle to the casual viewer as opposed to andor which looks like a generic sci fi that is Star Wars in name

Soldier for the Empire, the first Dark Forces novella, is a better version of both Cassian and Finn’s story anyways. Kyle Katarn is who those characters should’ve been. Also becomes a Jedi later in Rebel Agent and Jedi Knight, doing the arc everyone wanted for Finn. The games are also great, but Soldier for the Empire in particular does delve into the backstory of Kyle Katarn from his Imperial Academy days through to his defection and later the stealing of the Death Star plans. While also having infinitely more charisma and character than the dull borefests of Rogue One’s characters. Plus, he doesn’t die so he has more story development later.

That's one of my problems. Everything grinds on the original story, with the exception of the Old Republic stories and the old comics.

True. As Thor said at 6:50 onwards. We shouldn't call other people "non-fans" just cuz they have different opinions on the Fanbase. However, when it comes to keeping or resisting those who clearly don't understand or love it in the same way, we need to stand our ground and say "no, you just don't get it and it's probably not for you." (cases in point: Lord of the Rings and Warhammer) As Thor himself also said in a nother video, "Fanbase can be for anyone, but not _everyone_ ."

The problem with gatekeeping is who are the gatekeepers? Would "Andor" have been made if these gatekeepers had a say?

They're all just variations of tall tales and campfire stories to Filoni. :/

@@CornyBum Yep, and apparently they’ve said it does fit with Dark Disciple, but I highly doubt it unless it’s a flashback somehow

So you are going to ignore that Andor completely ignored the title character’s established backstory. If you are going to criticize Filoni for that at least be willing to critique the other offenders too.

From what I understand, wasn't this allowed under the EU by the sortof canonicity pyramid they had going on where movie canon trumps show canon trumps book canon so on and so forth

@@emberfist8347 What a moronic assumption and tangent. Who's talking about _Andor_ here but you? And who's obligated to? You wanna know someone's take on _Andor,_ just ask instead of leading with some suggestion of hypocrisy based on a blind assumption.

Agreed. Whatever your opinion or generation, whenever something comes along that clearly wants to change the Fan-loved thing into something that it isn't...

There are things in the world that we love and care for. Whether it's as simple as a favourite toy, or as complex as a loved pet or child. We have fun times and wonderful moments with these things. And when new people come along and want to interact with our toys, pets, or children, we want to keep them safe. So we understandably get very upset if we see the new people breaking our cherished toys, abuse our pets, or force our children to fit their views. We want to keep them away those who want to hurt them. And that's what I feel gatekeeping is at it's core. A strong desire to protect the things we love, and the fear that new people will break them because they don't care. And I feel that gatekeeping becomes more restrictive after somebody comes along and proves they can't be trusted.

Yes. It is. And that's why i left. Because i remember i time when fans were decent human beings.

Gatekeep what? Y’all don’t own the franchise. How do you gatekeep the definition of a mainstream popular franchise?

Based on your name I would assume you are a fan of black flag... and guns n roses. Gatekeeping happens with music too, don't pretend like you don't understand fan mentality... when you love something you want to keep its spirit pure and memory strong for the most part. When ignorant people come into the fandom saying dumb things it makes you cringe and you want to educate them. Some people call that gatekeeping, but it's not. @@blackflagsnroses6013

Addendum: gatekeeping is only fine and wanted in obscure metal fandom 😂

Mando season one was perfectly fine Flash Gordon serial action adventure, but when Season 2 came out and it was obvious that Lucasfilm was using their most popular show as a backdoor pilot for Ahsoka, The Book of Boba Fett, and Rangers of the New Republic (RIP, lol), they started to wrap their hands around the golden goose instead of just letting it do the thing that made the first season so enjoyable. And then Season 3 overplayed its hand way too early in The Book of Boba Fett and never fully recovered from how nonsensical its plot and pacing was.

Unless, Bob Iger is arrested for his role in creating an oligopoly in Disney and having Star Wars become an independent entity again. Are you a fan of Disney Star Wars because there is no legitimate defense behind Iger’s scrutiny?

@@jacobshraim4231 Nah. I quit watching a while ago. The only way I could not hate Star Wars was to realize they were separate entities. I love George's films and reject Disney Star Wars. But the fact remains his Star Wars is done. It isn't coming back. So fans who want to watch new content that vaguely resembles his films their only option is Disney's garbage. Personally I have almost zero interest in any future content. The only thing I would watch would be a Cara Dune project starring Gina Carano. Not because I respect Disney Star Wars but because I respect Gina.

Well said, the majority of star wars fans I have met in real life are not hateful like they have been portrayed on social media, we are very hopeful that the next show or movie made will be great, but we have been burned so many times that all we know is criticism because all the content has been mostly bad these days.

@@AndreNitroX I’ve always hated the phrase. No one hates Star Wars more than Star Wars fans because that’s just straight not true…

same I like the OT but I grew up with 08 clone wars and don't hate everything disney has done I just don't feel the need to have starwars conversations about it anymore don't have the time for a pissing match about some made up fantasy franchise

@@Milothemighty10 "No one hates X more than X fans" is the first sign you're dealing with someone who isn't a fan. Is it hate to be critical of something they like? No, the criticism, no matter how harsh, comes from a place of love. But is it hate to declare that you must like everything, even the things that actively shit on you, simply because you're a fan of X? Yes, but not of X. It's hate of X fans, because they want X to be the best it can be. Replace X with whatever brand you want - Star Wars, Elder Scrolls, Warhammer, even shit like Twilight if you want, the point remains the same. If the person accuses the fans of hating the product, it's because the fans refuse to let them change the product.

@@mortemtyrannus8813 fair enough…

Nice take brother. I can relate to you. I have a friend of mine who also follows Star Wars. Needles to say we do have our disagreements over Andor and Rebels backs then. But, now given Rebels a chance I loved and enjoyed it. I will also do the same for Andor.

To clarify, you think that if _fans_ of _Star Wars_ were better at gatekeeping, this would have prevented the current negative state of the franchise? And just so I understand what it is you wanted to prevent, what is it about the current state that you wanted the franchise to avoid?

are you seriously rocking a kekistan pfp in 2024 AD

@@stageblood9935 yeah ... I really need to change it but I don't know what to

@@CornyBum yes, I think if Star Wars was better gatekept in the past to the point it became a niche franchise Disney wouldn't have bought it and it wouldn't have failed due to it's size and even if they had bought it we should have rejected everything they thrown out as basterdized versions of Star Wars that way they would have been forced to include George Lucas and others the community trusted. We are the consumers, wehave the power.

​@@Alertacobra12 how dare not only you and people that share the exact same opinions as you be allowed to like Star Wars. Truly a travesty. It's so god damned terrible that people like the same thing as you. Imma let you in on a little secret, Star Wars was never niche, and it never could be. The very first film was the highest grossing movie of all time for 7 years straight. This isn't some formerly obscure franchise which got dilluted through overexposure. This is one of the most famous and recognizable franchises of all time and has been since pretty much it's very beginning. So for you to "successfully" gatekeep it, from any dissenting opinions or viewpoints, is not only wildly stupid, selfish and generally bad both morally and for the franchise. It's also just flat out impossible.

Yes just yes. Same with me but I had gotten introduced in 2012 when I was 10. I was a bit too young though but it really grabbed me as I had continued to watch the movies probably over the coarse of a year. I really started getting into the eu in middle school and also picked and choosed but ultimately I was trying to figure out what worked with George’s saga. In high school I did the same thing with sequels and at first it was like trying to force a puzzle piece into the wrong spot I wanted to like them so badly that for TLJ I was in denial for probably a week after watching it(I was thinking “was that really just that bad?” No couldn’t be. Things ticked me off but I did not wanna go down the rabbit hole and lose all hope in the trilogy. Then I did )

@@SKIllITY20 i like how you described it like putting a puzzle piece in the wrong spot, there are some stories that just ruin the fun and experience of star wars, so i choose to ignore the pieces that dont work in my canon, so i guess anyone can have their own custom made canon because at this point disney isnt even trying to make a solid canon anymore.

Gatekeeping in the current conversations, is meant as a way of stopping a property from being subverted. No one talks about gatekeeping gingers from LoTRs, or keeping girls out of 40k etc etc... They talk about gatekeeping the modern progressives who force DEI etc, into an established franchise, because they lack the ability to create one of their own to push their message in.

@@DavidWalker1987 I agree, the correct function of gatekeeping is to preserve the core intent and appeal of a given thing, be that a media franchise, a friend group, or anything else that holds meaning to the people it was created for and embraced by.

What furry?

@@ct-1177Basically a stand-in for any of the distasteful proclivities in a certain nature.

Is it fair to interpret a franchise changing with continued additions as _evolution_ instead of _devolution,_ and the different interpretations just being a matter of subjective taste? Your take seems to elevate the initial narratives as some kinda orthodoxy when that might be an unnecessary exercise of subjective preference.

@@CornyBum Fictional information exists in and of itself. The only thing that it derives any meaning from is the information contained within. In other words, Star Wars is what it is on the screen and nothing more: there is no Star Wars outside it's depiction in the fictional narrative. The more you change that, the further you get from that which is already established, the more it becomes Star Wars-looking Whatever You Want It To Be, and it stops being Star Wars and becomes Generic Make Believe In Space.

@@seanmurphy7011 I don't quite get what you mean. Are you saying that so long as more content is added to _Star Wars,_ it's inevitable that it changes from what it originally was? If so, is your solution to just not make more content as an effort to preserve its original form?

@@CornyBum Eventually, that is exactly what will happen. Creative talent will look at what Star Wars will eventually devolve into and either go make their own original stories unconstrained by an obnoxious amount of 'canon' or to some other fresh property. There might be some hipsters that still like it but everyone else will move on.

@@seanmurphy7011 Well, yeah, something like _Star Wars_ will change over time with more and more content, but "generic Star Wars-shaped space fantasy" seems kinda unnecessarily vague. It's true that it'll likely keep expanding so _Star Wars_ will come in different forms and flavors compared to the original works, but there can still be something about it that keeps it uniquely _Star Wars_ and some people's particular cup of tea. And yeah, no IP really is expected to last forever, so creators and audiences will move on at some point. I think I get what you mean by that. It's like creative expansion of an IP tends toward loosening of its identity and a kind of entropy for its distinctness...from a certain point of view. It could still be argued that in a sense, having even more unique creations within the IP actually is one way of becoming even _more_ distinctive, not less, but in a generic (as in, relating to genre) sense, your point seems to still stand. By the way, if I represent your view correctly above, what does your stance that "fiction is not subjective" have to do with this?

Because having your title be part of the lost boys is so realistic. As of having a prison for a anti-alien regime only filled with humans.

The question is not whether a bit of Star Wars media is "real" or not. What matters is whether or nor its _good._