Gear Video: My Analysis of Michael Fremer's Caliburn vs. SL-1200G Shootout 

Cartridges and amps do make a big a deal for sure and I would definitely go for the BMW ;) All equipment can color the sound. Some in a pleasing or negative way. To me its analgous to the tinting or changing the resolution in a photograph. Not everyone likes the precise sound. When I first heard the percussive piece, I would be lying if I said I didn't like the Technics. Thanks for stopping by Eric.

and make sure you have more money left over for all the time in the shop that used BMW will require. Been there, done that.

Vinyl Rewind A used BMW?😂 you could buy a new i8 for the price of that Caliburn.

really? I didn't know that turntable was that much, that's just stupid money

seriously

Thank you sir. I tried to do the best with the equipment I had at hand. I am still trying to see if I can score one of the albums he played just to see how my own system would compare. It wouldn't be an apples to apples comparison since my cart, phono pre-amp, and A to D converter are different but it would be fun nonetheless.

I would be saying the same thing...'precious!'

Excellent reference turntable.

An Awesome Turntable!!

I still have and play regularly, my 1976 Technics SL-23. Bammm Jackson. Bammmmmmmm!

No problem Kris and this is something I had been wanting to do for awhile. I am looking forward to seeing if he does post an updated version with a corrected LP. It will at least let me see another data point and I am very curious to see where the Caliburn will end up speed wise.

Had never heard of Continuum before. Heard an A/B test on a glorious soprano - something something Auvergne. Holy crap gorgeous, but amazing how it sounded like you could walk around the performers in 3 dimensions on the Continuum. 😃 (edit) It’s the second track used here. The difference was distinct listening to the whole track on the original YT video. Amazing recording. 🎉

wcg66 I agree with you. I think the quartz locked Technics is much more likely to be speed accurate than the high end belt drive table. We all know the Rega speed trick, and I wouldn't be surprised if other manufacturers did the same thing. As far as what differences I heard, the table which we now believe to actually be the technics had more surface noise, but IMO sounded more "natural." I might actually prefer it but I'd have to listen to 3 or 4 more demos to know for sure.

When he put up the percussion piece, I too preferred the Technics sound at first. There are people that actually prefer coloration in the sound. To me it's analogous to playing with the color or changing the lighting in a photograph. In other words, what is the natural setting may not always be the preferred setting. I agree with you on the demos and your point about the belt is a fair one. The only way to get a good measure on which one is more accurate would be to go back to the master tape and measure the true length of the piece. Thanks for the great comments guys.

Paul, how about looking at a FLAC file of the same song? My assumption would be that digital version would have the correct timing. You could tell which table is giving the best speed accuracy I think.

BarakaPDub : On Fremer's video I can hear a difference , easily. On yours , I hear no difference. I have no idea why, of course. On a different note : According to this , ( UHFmag.com issue 86, Page 36, ) An accurate strobe light & disc, will read slightly fast when the speed is spot on . What do you think ?

Really!!!!! So many variables and people want to try to compare the two. What a joke. Not to mention the coversion BACK to digital and some file that has been compressed and put on YT. All I see is a lot of wasted time on a flawed format to begin with. P.S. I have owned a Technics Quartz direct drive (SLQ200) for 35 years plus. I think I paid $50 bucks for it.

That's definitely a different way of re-framing the picture.

Jup there’s always a way to spend money more wisely, even if one has more than one needs 😉

Sadly, I did get it wrong but at least the data confirmed which table was playing which piece better. Fremer dropped a post tonight that announced he didn't switch the audio but he made it a bit tricky. The record he was playing was defective and the Caliburn's vacuum system couldn't hold the LP to the platter that well. He said he would post another video sometime next week with a non-defective pressing. I do intend to look at that one in detail when he posts it. I am still perplexed by the speed difference.

Ah man, I am jealous! Now you can easily get three figures for that same table. You grabbed it at the right time. I hope to get one as a second deck sometime but it may be awhile before I can do ti.

I’m with you!! Good man. Boys with toys and More money than sense buying the Audiophile deck.

I never paid for a near mint technics sl 1200 mk2 my mate Pete left it to me in his will god bless you Pete much loved ❤

Thanks Bilbo for the kind comment. Even though I got it wrong, it was still fun to do the video.

Thanks for the support Tom. Ultimately, my bottom-line is if you don't enjoy the music, then why the hell listen? In a lot of cases, even the reissues are not worth the price but in the case of the Music Matters stuff, for example, it's hard to find an OG that is in VG condition and isn't going for three or four times the price of the reissue. To use a couple of classic Kris-isms, if you're already an A student, is being an A+ student going to make you that much better? Moreover, paying $100 for a $1 dollar record isn't going to equate to a 100 times the enjoyment. Gear is likely the same. I try and have some rationale limits but sometimes I break them and make my wife cringe in the process ;)

You know, I thought exactly the same when I first watched the video and then I had to look at the files to see what I was hearing. I could be completely wrong on the swap and I am eagerly waiting to see the results. He could make me a complete idiot but it won't be the first time ;) Thanks for commenting on your perspective Jeffrey. I am always curious to hear what people think.

He didnt swap, Fremer admitted he DID NOT swap. This guy is a bafoon

Bingo. If the 1200G is this good, who needs to spend $150000 or more.

You get to a point where there are definitely diminishing returns. I would be quite content with the SL-1200G.

You can't really tell over RU-vid.

@@BarakaPDub Yes, me too!

Thanks for the kind words Chris. Although, I got to confess, sometimes I don't always get it right and if I don't I try and make amends. If you ask my wife, I never get it right ;)

​@@BarakaPDub Firstly thanks for the review. Secondly I’m afraid that you’ve pressed my button with that last comment though, but know that I am on your side. I can't abide that kind of leech on my life. Man or woman I do not tolerate people attempting to belittle me in order to elevate their facade of self-confidence. Clearly you're wife's been brainwashed like most women in the West today to think that belittling you is OK and it sounds like you have allowed her to get away with it no doubt because you've bought that same brainwashing by the lame-stream media and even if she's joking, it's a very tired and quite controlling/belittling joke that wouldn't come from a real loving wife. If you haven't the confidence to point these facts out to her [show her this comment] and flip the script "The change has come, she's under my thumb" lyrics by Rolling Stones come to mind, or better than a game of one-upmanship demand mutual respect, then I'd kick her to the curb and hire a prostitute instead. In the long run a prostitute would be cheaper than that sort of wife and leave you with more money to upgrade your gear and enjoy life MGTOW style. As Jack Black would say, didn’t you know, you're wife's 'The Man' and there used to be a way of sticking it to the man, today we call it MGTOW. ;-) Edit: Please don’t trust feminist wikipedia's word for the meaning of 'MGTOW', it's not a misogynist movement at all, quite the opposite, its an anti-misandrist and anti-gynocentrist, or truly egalitarian movement.

I would love to see that! It must have made for a fun time for sure. Where did you manage to catch him? Was your interview used for a publication anywhere?

I write for an online music magazine called noripcord and hosted a podcast called the High and Low Podcast, so I've done a bunch of interviews with folks like Ken Scott, Mark Lewisohn, Rod Argent and Greil Marcus. Here's the link but I'll post the Fremer: www.highandlowpodcast.blogspot.com

direct drive is noisy; there's a reason why few high-end tts are direct drive

While I can't account for the speed. The Technics actually came out on top which just goes to show you don't need to pay the price of a house for a quality turntable.

I'm with your Richard and don't be surprised if Ian has something up his sleeves down the road ;) The audiophile magazines sometimes need to be taken with a grain of salt. Most of their income comes from the advertisements of the products they review so they are kind of between a rock in a hard place. Diminishing returns...absolutely. I took a class specifically on composite materials many years ago and to kick of the class, the professor said, 'Composite Materials...only used in high price manufacturing or for people that have the money to spend on their hobbies (i.e. airplanes or golf clubs).' While the use of composite materials has come down in price over the years, the applications haven't changed that much. I wasn't surprised to start seeing them in turntable tonearms.

Richard Riley Dear Richard... Thank you again for your kindest support and belief. You are right about it...which many of us hopefully would have realized along the way: Audio/hifi reviewers from sources with paid advertisements never dare to compare and criticize. How would you feel if i belong to YZ Acoustics or Orthopen Audio and paid you Richard a $500,000 cheque to place my advertisements on Page 2 and 3 of your Audio magazine for Jan and Dec issues of 2017? Would you dare to write a bad review of my YZ speakers or my Ortopen cartridges? Would you dare to write off my YZ speakers or Orthopen cartridges as the lowest performing or horrid sounding speakers or cartridges in their respective price class? Would you dare to cut off your future sources of advertisement income by becoming "blacklisted" by YZ and Orthopen? If you state one model besting all the other six models from six other manufacturers, you would be pissing off the other six manufacturers too. Your audio webpage is loaded with flashing advertisements from various manufacturers and retailers in your precinct, would you dare to speak the truth? Yes my dear friend Richard.... everybody needs to post these real life questions to all these audio reviewers accepting their huge source of income from manufacturers.

Richard Riley Dear Richard... Thank you again for your kindest support and belief. You are right about it...which many of us hopefully would have realized along the way: Audio/hifi reviewers from sources with paid advertisements never dare to compare and criticize. How would you feel if i belong to YZ Acoustics or Orthopen Audio and paid you Richard a $500,000 cheque to place my advertisements on Page 2 and 3 of your Audio magazine for Jan and Dec issues of 2017? Would you dare to write a bad review of my YZ speakers or my Ortopen cartridges? Would you dare to write off my YZ speakers or Orthopen cartridges as the lowest performing or horrid sounding speakers or cartridges in their respective price class? Would you dare to cut off your future sources of advertisement income by becoming "blacklisted" by YZ and Orthopen? If you state one model besting all the other six models from six other manufacturers, you would be pissing off the other six manufacturers too. Your audio webpage is loaded with flashing advertisements from various manufacturers and retailers in your precinct, would you dare to speak the truth? Yes my dear friend Richard.... everybody needs to post these real life questions to all these audio reviewers accepting their huge source of income from manufacturers.

Richard Riley ...and yes my dear Brother Richard... i am in the midst of planning a turntable shoot-out and review series...😄🖑 i will do my best. And Richard, thank you yet again. Yours, ian.

There are some brands where their lower-cost tables are quite good. Lots of Rega tables, at all price points, are good. A used VPI Scout can be pretty hard to beat for price / performance.

While I think it would be fun to own a Caliburn, my wife would agree with your comment wholeheartedly and smack me around silly ;)

After seeing the final results that Fremer posted, I have a lot of respect for the Technics 1200 now. Not that I didn't respect it before because, outside of the VPI direct drive, I think it's the model to be beat and there is a reason why the design has been so lasting. I am seriously considering picking one up...if my wife will allow another turntable in the house.

Thank you so much for the comment. I keep hoping that Fremer will post more follow ups like this. Eventually, I do want to acquire copies of the records he played here. While my phono stage and carts are different, I would be curious to see how they stack up. It's not an apples to apples comparison but it would give a close approximation.

Thanks Allan! BTW - Thanks for the comment on my initial video posting problem yesterday. I think it came from you?

Yes Paul it was me what happened?

I hear you, totally, on the Music Matters and Old-School Metal. It would be fun to play a bunch of different stuff on the two set ups and to be fair, it can be difficult to see what the Technics can really do with only two data points or songs. I am glad you could pick up the difference on the second track. I even made the comment on his video. Then when Kris made his video, I did some A/B testing and I found couldn't hear anything. I must have played it twenty or more times. It could be my laptop speakers are not the greatest but looking at the data, there is no one that can deny there isn't a difference. There is something there.

BarakaPDub Just listen to the cello opening, it is so much more like the real thing on Michael's turntable.

I was using my pair of Beyerdynamic DT990 250ohms headphones connected to my Auzentech Forte sound card via its built-in headphone amp, which may explain why I was able to hear the differences. I tried my best not to fall into the "golden ears" fallacy but then again, I'm a fair bit younger than most "audiophiles"...

Good point. I always take the lid off of my Rega when I am playing records for that very reason.

@@BarakaPDub You did some great testing. But the results could have been corrupted by micro vibrations.

No problem and thanks for watching through it. I got it totally wrong by the way. Fremer announced today that the audio was not switched at all and that his Caliburn had problems with a pressing that was defective. He said he was going to post another video with a non-defective pressing next week. At least my analysis did conclude which file was better but not the table which was playing it ;) I am curious about the speed issue.

Though it begs the question, why can't a six figure turntable play a record as well as a four figure one? :)

You're bringing up some very good points and it's really hard to make a good determination based on two songs being played. I know a lot of people slam digital but honestly, there is a lot more that goes into what ultimately hits your ears. Too me, the recording of the music, mixing, and mastering is really a key player. Vinyl can sound spectacular but the pressing can affect the quality. Then you have the playback equipment, where everything in the chain can ultimately color the sound image in one way or another. This goes for digital or analog. Thanks so much for the great comment.

No kidding. I would never sneeze at picking up a Technics.

Nice! Linn, Grace, & Coral all are great tables. I am tempted to pickup a Technics after this current round of performances.

Yep. I am out of my mind and if I had the income, I wouldn't go that far either. Moreover, my wife would kill me ;)

Thanks mcgjohn. All interesting points and it makes me wonder if Mr. Fremer would be interested in approach these down the road. An SL-1000R would be an interesting comparison.

@@BarakaPDub I doubt it. Too many high end table mfgrs may be impacted. I have a feeling the 1000R may get you pretty close to the OMA K3. Lead times on the 1000R used to be 3 months wait, now 6-9 months wait.

Thanks for the great comment and yes, you're absolutely correct in preference. I'm a tweaker/analyst by nature so if I come across something that turns out to be a placebo effect, I definitely want to pass it along.

Thanks Lisa. I played the second track over twenty times with an A/B switch and I really couldn't hear anything. Some people are saying they could and it could be they have a better playback system. I am using my PC speakers which will definitely have limits. Regardless, I felt the second track was pleasing with either turntable. BTW - I caught your vinyl tag video early in the morning the other day and I don't think I left a response. Anyway, just wanted to let you know that I enjoyed what you put together.

+BarakaPDub thanks Paul I appreciate that take care

Yep and it's proven to be even finer ;) Fremer just announced that he didn't switch the audio on the video. Apparently, the LP being played had an imperfection and Caliburn had problems with keeping it vacuumed to the surface. I got it wrong but it's not that he didn't make it tricky.

Thank you for watching!

You could be right. Something is there because the data presented supports it. I just couldn't hear it but just to put it out there, I could be hitting some limitations on my PC speakers. I have done a lot of A/B'ing with mastering and in most cases it's immediately clear the master choices the engineer chose to make.

I don't know if you caught it and I hope it didn't drop out but I tried to put in a disclaimer that I got it wrong at the beginning of the video. Your last sentence is well said.

@@BarakaPDub So your entire video is misinformation. Its not helping anyone.

That may be true. I would love to hear the thing in person.

Close to what I (thought I) perceived. One man's realism & detail apparently is another man's flutter.

If someone told me the only turntable I could get for the rest of my life was a 1200, I would be a happy man.

Fascinating though, regardless. 👍

One more thought ... on the waveform editor how do you know the Technics wasn't giving the more accurate transcription?

Thanks so much for the comment Chris. I am not sure if my disclaimer came through at the beginning but the Technics did hold it's own. My analysis did show which table was truly preferred by most but per Fremer's posting on his website, the Caliburn had problems with a defective LP on the percussion track. So it did best the much more expensive table in this regard and I was really impressed with what it did. While I do agree that audio playback is an illusion, I have to respectfully disagree with the accuracy comment since vibrational dampening, frequency response, transients response, speed, pitch, etc. are things that can all be measured against known values. This little experiment is just an approximation with the data that was made available and actual music, while valuable, shouldn't be the main focus when making measurements. But watching videos of test tones wouldn't be too entertaining though ;) If I had access to the equipment and more tools at my disposal, I would be doing something a bit different in terms of testing to truly compare the performance two tables/arms. Having said that, the actual preference of the human ear is a different story. Some people like coloration. Some distortion is actually pleasing to the ear. Moreover, the actual recording, mixing, mastering and vinyl pressing play into the equation of what we are hearing. In this particular case, the pressing of the LP made a big difference so it skewed the test.

I understand fully your perspective on this, and I would be rather surprised if the Caliburn didn't sound better (or should I say different) than the Technics. Recording VBR compressed streams from RU-vid will not give you accurate results on a waveform editor, though your findings do seem reasonable even if your interpretation is somewhat debatable. Its not just the law of diminishing returns in regards to how much sound quality is achievable for your pound or dollar, and of course design excellence in terms of build, which surprisingly doesn't always equate to better sound, but does add to the "I want" factor, naturally. I've been in this business for a very long time now. I consider myself an Audiophile. I love Vinyl replay, and I also love high end digital. I don't mean CD's, which are technically a compromise. I spent a number of years as a recording engineer, and I've worked with some very well known Artists. I came in at the crossover point when early digital (awful) pushed traditional analogue multitrack & mastering to one side. I remember almost overnight changing from 1 inch mastering to DAT mastering. Because the multitrack's were analogue, noise reduction systems were still being used before digital masters were rendered. further noise reduction wasn't needed, and once the early PCM systems were used to multitrack, dynamic head room and the resulting noise floor dropped. Dolby & DBX systems became redundant. BUT something wasn't right. Digital was in its infancy, and engineers had to learn to master differently. The end product would no longer be analogue, but digital. Though early digital was awful - remember those 14bit over-sampling CD players? The recordings weren't very pretty either because the majority were mastered with vinyl in mind as the end product. That's why so many remastered classics on vinyl sound so much better than CD's (with the odd exception) Early 80's DDD masters sound superb, even by todays standards. When you use the term "accurate" I ask "accurate to what?" Here, the Caliburn shouldn't be seen as the reference just because the turntable/arm combo costs a fortune. I hate measurements as likeable sound has little to do with them, in fact often the opposite. But such a test of this extreme needs to be so much more than an A/B listening comparison via a VBR stream on RU-vid. The reference should also be at least the master recording. From my experience, studio masters sound very different to the rendered vinyl product - note I said different, not better. CD's don't sound exactly like studio masters either, but in real terms come closer. Ears and our attached brains have a liking for various colourations, this is where vinyl comes in. Todays digital masters don't have the limitations of CD's (which brick wall's bandwidth from 20Hz to 20kHz) a 24bit 192kHz recording extends frequency greatly and adds 144dB of dynamic headroom. Vinyl can't achieve that level of dynamics, but it can replay the extended bandwidth, hence it often sounding better than basic CD's. Though our ears roll of frequency within the 20Hz to 20kHz bandwidth, our brains don't as we seem to perceive an extended range. RIAA equalisation is key, so a well designed phono stage is important to attain that range. We all spend silly money on Hi-Fi's to create what we think is an accurate or realistic sound. this perception is an illusion as well as an opinion, hence there being so many systems all claiming greatness. The first link in the chain is not the turntable or the vinyl disc, its the Artists being recorded, then the mic's, cables, recording equipment and the skills of the studio and its engineers to capture the magic of the moment. What transcribes those moments will always be a representation based on what we think sounds cool.

Chris, thanks for relating your experience here. You have to admit it must have been fun just to master period. I am very jealous in a lot of regards because I think it would be extremely enjoyable to do that kind of work. I got to ask, is it as blissful to listen to the master tapes as everyone claims? In terms of accuracy, you want to get to a known set of target values in a statistically repeatable fashion. This is where a set of test tones of a known values are valuable as one set of measurements. How well can a given turntable/arm approximate and replicate an understood norm? This is where things like the Feickert application become appealing to those testing the turntables. Whether people actually like the accuracy or not is a different story and this is where we are in agreement on the coloration. If you look at the responses to the test, while most people liked the table that played each respective LP better, the responses were not in 100% agreement. I have never been a big fan of the digital versus analog debate because I think both can be done well or badly but that falls within all of the links in the chain leading to the transfer as you described. A poorly miked and badly recorded band likely will not be saved in the mastering process. For the waveform analysis, I used the 96/24 files that Fremer posted on his website BTW, not the RU-vid compressed audio.

Concur. This was all done in fun though.

Honestly, I don't think you can beat the 1210 GR. It's a really nice table and I would be content with one. It gets to a point where upgrades are only going to get you minimal improvements.

I wouldn't dispute a dog's hearing ;)

😀😁😁😁

About as intelligent as what this bloke has posted.

After I had my ears tested and found I was topping out at twelve K I felt like selling my system and buying a 'record player' .

You know, I would have to agree with you. I was really amazed at how well the Technics performed.

No mate. You didnt here them in Space and time.

@@BarakaPDub i just ordered the 1210g , for the price it is amazing

@@keithfailmezger1596 how is it???? what cartridge??

i love it .. and i am running a grado master 3 and running through a parasound JC3+@@Darrin.Crawford

Good question but I am not sure what they use. It would be great to find out though.

The Caliburn was off. With the warp, the Caliburn vacuum system wasn't working as it should.

Thank you sir! I hope he does a bit more of this in the future.

Michael did drop 24 bit/96 kHz files on his Analog Planet website which you're fee to download. I used those for this video and RU-vid did change the audio. The core of it is intact but it's been compressed. If you look at it and find something I didn't call out or have other thought please let me know.

Thank you Richard for watching. I appreciate the comment and I hope some of my other ramblings are to your liking.

If I recall correctly, the cartridge was identical. It was one of the higher end Lyra Cartridges. Maybe a Lyra Atlas on the model just below it.

Thanks for requesting it. It was a good piece and something of from the Ring Cycle would be outstanding. I just hope he'll do a follow up.

I share you're opinion in some regards. While I think it would be fun to own either Turntable, the law of diminishing returns applies and my wife would likely divorce me if I spent the equivalent of a two bedroom home on a turntable.

You know, I agree with you. My number one priority is the music. For example, there is stuff that I have vivid memories of listening to on AM radio and I have some nostalgia for the sound that only AM radio could produce. To hear the music squeaky clean would kill the vibe for me. There are some really well recorded albums that can become butchered with less than optimal conditions. The playback chain is just one step in the process though. The way the music was recorded, mixed, mastered, and manufactured are also just as critical, if not more so. As for the 5 or 8 second samples, this is really just to focus in on audio memory. Most people, like myself, can't lock in on one particular instrument's sound or frequency, replay the piece again after its completed, and then remember the differences. Unless something is way off, it's hard to remember what the contrast might be. Some people are good at it but I am terrible. That said, I have done some other audio comparisons of different album pressings where the differences, when played at 4 seconds a piece, can be pretty stark. For this video, it was just for fun to compare the two systems. I had a hard time discerning on the vocal piece, even though looking at the hi-res data shows there was some difference.

as i listen, i find i hear differences after long-term listening. it is mostly subconscious and then it surfaces when you are least expecting it, causing you to seriously consider the reasons for the difference and weigh whether an expenditure is necessary. quick A/B switching is SOMETIMES useful, but not always.

Agree absolutely with your first sentence! This guy's analysis is absurd.

I agree with you. I also struggle with the fact that some people are convinced they can hear a difference on a compressed RU-vid video - AND how someone thinks computer analysis of that video clip can in any way prove conclusive one way or the other.

Agreed. 6 figures no way. However, some turntables a more musically involving than others even in under 1k range.

You and me both but only if I had more surplus cash. I think I would want to pay off my mortgage first.

There are so many wonderful turntables.

You can get the files from Fremer's website (www.analogplanet.com).

I am totally with you on the comment that you can't beat a Technics and this just goes to show you don't have to pay the price of a house to get a decent turntable.

I agree on the Stylus & Speakers. The Speakers are really key and I know Fremer stocks some of the high end Wilsons at home. I really wish I could get access to both tables because I would do a little more extensive testing (i.e. multiple test tones and strain gauge vibe tests).

I do agree the lid will impact it but in this case, I think he was going directly from his phono stage to the A/D converter.

I am with you on the cart. I think the cart makes a big impact on the sound provide the mechanical parts of the turntable are done correctly.

Good question. The tonearms are different and have a different CG given the design. I can't answer on the either arm.

I actually didn't think the 1200G was too bad and I would be quite happy with it. I too will be looking forward to his full up review when it's dropped. It's hard to make a firm determination off of only two records though. I would be curious to see how it does with some other genres. I mean how well could it do some classic funk ;) As for the timing difference, I would love to calculate it out but too see which one is truly off, you would have to check the master tapes. Another way to do it is to play a bunch of different records. If the time difference is consistently off regardless of what record is played, it's likely a problem with the Technics. If the time difference is random, it could be due to belt slippage on the Caliburn. That's at least how I would try and scope it out a bit more. Thanks for the comment Paul.

The files were not swapped. I'm starting to save for my new turntable :) I have the feeling the Technics will play funk just fine. Part of me is very much influenced as the Japanese designed it for playback on the radio/studio. The same reason I like the DL103. Just makes music sound good. Enjoy the rest of the weekend. /Paul

Yep. I got it wrong. I am curious to see Fremer's new video whenever he drops it. Will the Caliburn be that discernible from the Technics?

BarakaPDub You didn't get it wrong. You picked the sample that sounded best. It sounded the best, the curve looked the best...and you made a logical assumption, the mind loves rational thinking, but Fremer tricked the most of us. /Paul

Hey Paul. Just been reading some test on the Technics. I will not be surprised if it was the most accurate. In HifiNews of july it was stated "the SL-1200GAE’s absolute speed accuracy is an astonishingly precise +0.006% and its low-rate wow is just 0.01%". Somewhere else I read it reproduced the 3150 Hz tone as 3150,2Hz. /Paul

The Technics did win the test. I got it wrong in the video. I don't know if Fremer has the resulting post up.

Yep. I think RU-vid must have pulled my on screen annotation. I had an annotation that stated that up front in the video. Thanks for watching though.

I hope so too! Otherwise, I am going to look like a complete idiot but thankfully, it wouldn't be the first time. BTW - I don't if I went back to comment but loved your Vinyl Tag video. I think you kicked that thing off again.

Yeah, it looks like a lot of people in the VC jumped onboard The Vinyl tag :) It would be fun to watch your response too :)

You know, I agree completely. There isn't that much of change in the signal path.

Thanks for chiming in A K. I am glad you could pick up on the differences and there are many that could.

Yep. I've done several videos on set up.

You may be right. I am curious if he will ever do a follow up on it.

The only one I have heard in person is the Technics and I was pretty impressed with it. VPI and Clear Audio bring in some unique design features and personally, I have been looking at the VPI's for a long time due to the AC motors, build quality, outer rim clamp capability, and adjustable VTA. The down side is that unless you're getting a Classic, the dust cover's, which you have to buy separately, cover the whole unit. The RU-vid Channel, New Record Day, has a good VPI review. For Clear Audio, I do like the Tone Arm design in that it magnetically levitates...at least, what I have seen demoed online.

@@BarakaPDub The one thing I would say with your video is it proves to me how great the Technics is being compared to the Caliburn which is insanley expensive. Though I like the VPI and the Clear Audio I am really leaning towards the Technics 1200G as the bang for buck value. Not only in sound quality but all the features it offers in one package.

The sound quality is outstanding on the 1200G I did hear.

You make a very valuable point Mark! To me, I think the recording, mixing, and mastering is very key to anything we hear. The equipment can only help to bring out the music or make it worse but what you're doing on the front end is extremely key! It's also hard to make a firm determination on the Technics without more data points. It would be fun to go over to Fremer's home and play a wide variety of music on the two systems.

BarakaPDub Absolutely I think we could come to a firm conclusion if he used a wider variety of music to compare..for example how would a Mobile Fidelity version of Steely Dan's - Aja compare? for a lot of people that is their sound system test album.

The tonearm, wiring, and turntable body do contribute to the sound but I agree the cart should make the biggest difference.

Supposedly it was the same cart. With his system, you might be able to hear something ;)

@@BarakaPDub I would hope so. He implied it but did not specifically say it was the same cartridge.

I am glad you could pick it up and it could be due to hitting the limits of my PC speakers. When you look at the files though, there is no denying that there isn't a difference. This can be clearly measured.

Some people hear that difference , i did hear it too..........the 1200 is good hifi , the Caliburn more organic and real.

It sure did. Bummer the Tango Spinner did not. GrooveTracer had a round metallic rod that had been magnetized. You used this to remove the original ball bearing. Then it was just a matter of added a few drops of oil and dropping in the new subplatter. Did the Tango Spinner come with a ball bearing or was it just the subplatter? If it was just the subplatter, then you should just be able to pull the old one out and drop the new one in. My recommendation though is not to push the subplatter down. Just let gravity do it's thing.

I don't think he used an external microphone. His recordings were coming straight from an Analog to Digital Converter which was connected to his phono stage.

Thanks Anthony and it's great to hear from you. I am hoping to go to a High End show someday so I can hear a Caliburn or a six figure turntable first hand. IMO, while all components can make a difference, I think the cart is one of the bigger game changers in sound. From what I can see Kuzma makes great tables and that's another brand I would love to see first hand. Your system must be killer now with the new tube amps. BTW - I got it totally wrong. Fremer announced that he did not switch audio and said the LP was defective. His Caliburn's vacuum system was challenged to keep the LP flat. He mentioned he was going to post another video with a non-defective pressing. I am really curious about the speed differential.

***** the tube amps made a big difference. But I think the biggest gains were made when I built the passive preamp. I used the Dave Slagle autoformers from Intact Audio. The whole unit cost me $500 to build and it sounded so much better than my $6500 Octave Audio preamp. Go figure. The passive ran rings around it. Well in my system anyway. I know passive preamps won't work in everyone's system, but it works a treat in mine.

I've heard the same thing about the mat and I think that's what a lot of people have been replacing first.

I heard the 1200G had a little more of an investment in the tone arm. I haven't seen it personally to a test to it but I don't think it's a solid metal piece. I am betting the Caliburn tonearm is a composite to increase the overall stiffness which is what you want to lower the resonance. The Technics takes a different approach by changing the center of gravity by using the S shape in it's design. I agree that some aftermarket mods should help to dampen the resonance more.

I wouldn't kick either out of my home ;)

Yeah. I would be quite satisfied with the 1200 after this video. With the Caliburn, I figure it's just going to be inches on the mile if you're listening to it in person.

Fremer did a follow up on this and he did comment on how bad the Caliburn performed with the warped record. The Caliburn's vacuum system wasn't good enough to hold the record flat.

An EQ is only a band aid and in no way, can compensate for either a hardware integrity issue nor less than pristine electronics. As a temporary fix until such problems can be directly addressed, ok. For instance--a low frequency from the turntable causing woofer pumping....a subsonic filter can cut that off along with resulting lack of purity. Fixing the feedback problem is the proper pathway.

in real life no digital file can touch the see through quality of vinyl so how can you duplicate anything with digital

No. I don't think you're wrong at all. Personally, I would be quite satisfied with the Technics 1200 and I am not sure if spending more money would get anything that's vastly superior if you know what I mean. Thanks for commenting NICE DAWG.

Yep. I'm blown away and I got it wrong. I am curious what is causing the speed problem though. It could be that the Technics is spot on and there is quite a bit of variation in the Caliburn. It's not like I haven't seen that with belt systems though.

It's strange that the speed varied from file to file, unless Framer lied about the identities (I doubt it, but it's a possibility). It is also possible that the Caliburn is spot-on for the speed, and the Technics is running a tad slow.

Another possibility: The Technics has adjustable speed, so it is possible that for the second video it's not completely centered. The light is also off, but I can't recall if that means the speed adjustment is turned off (and therefore moving the slider has no effect).

mcnyregrus The Technics has a default reset button that cuts out any speed variations by the speed control slider. The speed control on them is spot on. You can have 2 different Technics tt's and have a whole album side (so 2 copies on each one) and have them play in perfect sync phasing (canceling out the sound) continuously. It's why I'd never use a belt drive system. Phasing and syncing 2 identical records used to be a real tool in our DJ world. :)

BarakaPDub The Technics is spot on. Even on Analog Planet and Stereophile, measured tests between the SL's and belt drives from any price range, shows this. :)

Your correct Bruno! My bottom line is that the music is the most important part. Everything else is secondary but like the Mona Lisa, you want to make sure you have the best lighting to really show her off. However, I'm on a budget so I can't spend the money on a six figure lighting system ;) Glad you could pick up something on the second track.

That's an easy one ;) $96,000 on records and $4000 on the Technics or another turntable that gets me to 99.5% of what is on the master tape. My bottom line, if the music doesn't move you then why the hell would you bother listening. I think my wife would slap me silly though if I even spent $4000 on a turntable. She would rather me invest it on some project around the house.

It's not 100k diference it is a 196k difference

No worries. On some of these, I would be hard pressed to hear a difference myself. The later track, I couldn't hear any difference at all but something was going on.

It would be interesting for sure. I wonder if Fremer has reviewed that one.

I am glad you could pick something up. I think I am hitting the limits of my PC speakers. I played the song some twenty times while doing an A/B switch and I couldn't hear anything. At first, I thought I did and I even commented on the Fremer video that I thought the Caliburn was better but then Kris commented that he couldn't hear anything so I decided to listen a bit further. Looking at the audio files though, there is no denying there isn't a difference. Now which is better, it really comes down to preference. More accuracy isn't always the best. The analogy I like to give people is photography. Sometimes using natural light doesn't bring out the best in a photograph. Sometimes the manipulation of the light is preferred by some.

That's why I use my headphones to listen to something in detail. I don't have high end desktop speakers, but a set of Logitech 5.1 PC speakers that sound great if i crank them a bit. But when it comes to music editing I switch to my Bose headphones to get any and all analytical details that I need to hear.

one thing I will say as I own a 1200g is that the table needs considerable run in. at least 500 hours and probably more as the bearing need to run in. Heack its brand new vs. a table that been running for years. There should be more of a sense of ease with the older table. Still, put a better headshell and platter mat on the 1200 and you may be even more suprised. the arm on the 1200g is really good contrary to what other say.

Thanks for the comment Shorty. I would really love to hear it in person on a system that brings out the commensurate level of detail. Sadly, unless I win the lottery or Michael Fremer invites me over, that will never happn.

I would not turn down a Technics at all! They're built like tanks and sound great.

Thanks for commenting and that you are a member ;) I went ahead and subbed you. I do agree that people are cruel with him which is unfortunate. The thing is, the more popular you get, the more trolls I am sure you attract.

True. Very true on picking a piece of something. Thanks for commenting D. League.

My conclusions were wrong by the way. You can see the different in length when you look at the actual WAV files. They are not the same.

Yes. I was totally incorrect on this one.

@@BarakaPDub Very interesting, because what you said still seemed correct, that the waveforms looked more defined and clear on one, which turned out to be the Technics. Makes me glad to be an SL1210GR owner anyway ;^)

@@leon9021 You know, I think once you get to that level, you're really splitting hairs. I honestly would take the SL1210GR and never look back.

@@BarakaPDub Same. I used to be very into tables and such, but I gotta say that I havnt found them to be that big of a difference maker. Even the step from my Rega RP1 to the SL1210GR wasnt very noticeable and Im pretty sure I could be happy with most any 500 - 1000$ table for life. They sure look juicy though, those 5 figure decks.

@@leon9021 Yes. If there is one thing that does ring true to me, it's spend your money on a great set of speakers.

I could easily live with a SL-1200 for the rest of my life and never complain. Thanks for watching Joe!

@@BarakaPDub I just got a Hana SL cartridge for one of mine and the other one gets my Goldring 1042. I love the isolation they give. I like to crank up lots of bass....

I don't think so.