GenConnex Honda EU7000is Natural Gas / Propane Conversion Runs Rough at Idle / Light Load 

Did you see my other videos on this? Motor Snorkel 3: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-jczarRxAunI.html (US Carburetion Kit Run Testing)

It is certainly true that one needs a bigger orifice for natural gas than for propane. Most kits for the EU3000is have a load-block adjustment screw as opposed to a fixed orifice (I've personally tried three different ones that all had screws). One of the things that the Hutch Mountain kit has going against it is that the injection hose (as shown in the product photo) is quite long, but if it works for you, then I'm not one to argue with success! In any case, if you read deep into all of these comments, you will see that I went through a phase where I tried up-sizing the orifice that came with the GenConnex kit. I bought a bunch of brass plugs and then used a set of numbered drill bits to gradually increase the size. The short story is that it didn't work because on the EU7000is, the GCU (computer) actively monitors the mixture, and if it doesn't like it, it shuts the machine down with an error code. So while that game may work with simpler machines, it doesn't work with the UE7000is. The only thing that worked for me was the "black box" control module that comes with the US Carburetion kit. I made another video showing how that worked out. There are links in the description section above if you're interested.

I really would like to see that in action! Any chance you might share a video?

@@MstrMark I ordered another quick disconnect and an elbow for the generator side, so once I have the parts installed and the next time I set it up for testing I'll upload it to my channel. Here's the thread on the power equipment forum: www.powerequipmentforum.com/threads/eu7000is-running-on-natural-gas.24124/

Very cool! But I still want to see it go from full load to no load on ECO Throttle!

OK, here is the generator running in ECO mode on natural gas with varying loads ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-KgRWa55kGMs.html

@@browsedeweb8834 Wow, that runs WAY better than mine! It looks like the mixture adjustment is accomplished with that bolt on the brass tee - is that true? And if so, did you have any problems with the GCU shutting the engine down after running for a while? Also, what is the altitude where you were testing? I did notice that it seemed to be struggling a bit at the highest load, but even so, that's so much better than mine that I'd be willing to give up a few hundred watts on the top end in order to have it run well with lighter loads.

@dm004i Hi Dave, I'm really super disappointed. I spent so much money and had such high hopes... But no, I haven't found a solution. Last week when I needed as much as I ever have, I could barely get it to stay running: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-A_LYYceiDfo.html I hope you'll let me know if your conversion works any better. And if it does, I'm going to be very interested to learn what is different about your situation. I have wondered if it would work better at higher altitude...I'm only about 80 feet above sea level here. FWIW, I have tried multiple times to contact US Carburetion about their Motor Snorkel kit, but so far, they have not responded to me. Seems like a bad sign, but maybe they're just slammed with Texans reacting to the epic storm. I would be willing to buy it if it would actually work for me. I'm really sick of having this much money invested in something that works so badly. As for mixing the two kits, I think the regulators are either identical or so close that it wouldn't matter, so at that point it just comes down to priorities. The Genconnex kit appears almost factory from a distance. Using a sticker to cover up the hole where the gas gauge is normally located spoils the illusion to some extent, and I don't like the way their injection adapter puts so much strain on the intake from the air filter, but if it ran right, all of that might be excusable. There is also the issue that the since Genconnex kit replaces the fuel tank, there is no longer the option to run on gasoline, and I have already regretted that on multiple occasions. By comparison, the US Carburetion kit is not a as clean with the regulator mounted outboard, and some might argue than a longer supply hose is not as good, but if it actually works well, then it would be a true tri-fuel setup, which I think is kind of a big deal. During this last storm, for the first time in my awareness, Centerpoint Energy was warning customers of natural gas shortages. If we're in the middle of an epic winter storm and the natural gas fails, then having the option to use both propane and gasoline would be VERY appealing. And the Snorkel injection adapter plate looks to be thinner than the Genconnex plate, so that should reduce the stress on the air intake. The Genconnex kit can run on propane, but it's not as simple as just hooking up a propane tank - one also has to change the fixed load block orifice. I can tell you from my recent experience that it is a miserable job when it's pitch dark and freezing cold. The hose that has to be removed gets stiff due to the temperature, adding to the misery. And keep in mind that my kit is relatively new...it would be much worse after a few years. One could undo the conversion all together and re-install the original fuel tank (if one has it), but the conversion took a few hours on a nice day...it would be harder on a freezing night. Things get amazingly dark when there is no power anywhere nearby. It was surreal. And there I was was, feeling like a fool for buying what Genconnex was selling.

@@MstrMark Well, I spent and hour installing the kit yesterday and tried a test at no load. Fairly disappointed. Instead of the steady purr of a happy Honda, I had popping and sputtering and misfiring. Not bad enough to stall out the machine, but clearly very rough running. Not what I thought I would be getting with a top of the line (or so I thought) kit. In Eco mode it got worse at the lower idle, still stayed running, but very rough. I tried to put some load on it today, but i have a continually flashing error code (E-56) on my i-monitor panel that won't allow me to see anything else that's going on. I cannot clear the error. I have a call in to Genconnex to see if they can support. Does anyone know what error code E-56 is? I find it annoying there is no table of error codes in the manual or online. . . (EDIT - Genconnex just called me back. . . since I have a newer bluetooth model 7000is, they need to send me a new kit with an electrical dongle to keep that error from flashing. I guess I'll be waiting for that before doing more testing) For info - I am using the Genconnex supplied spark plug gapped to 0.020" and the natural gas orifice they provide, as well as a 3/4" ID gas supply hose I purchased. I have a slightly longer run from my hard pipe wall connection, so wanted to be sure I had no pressure drop issues. I have not measured my supply pressure. I have sunk a lot of money into this setup, but I am considering the motor snorkel kit, mainly just for the timing advance module, to see if that would help. I raised a query with them via their ebay store, and received a typical vendor-like response to my query if they sold the module separately and if it would work with any other kit. Here is the reply: "Sorry, the PCM computer is only compatible with our tri-fuel system". I doubt it, so am considering buying it if some more testing under load does not improve things. I am kind of regretting not buying the Cummins full house system (that is cheaper!) I was looking at. . . . but I have so much invested now. I really think if Genconnex cannot get their kit sorted out, it should be pulled off the market.

@@davidmessineo1354 I'm sorry to hear that...and yet, glad too, because it confirms that the fault is not mine alone. Yeah, mine had never actually stalled until I needed it on a cold day. But it hasn't "purred" since it ran on gasoline. I had so much trouble with mine and information so sparse online that I actually bought the official service manual, but unfortunately, E-56 is not in the Error Code list. Hopefully E-56 has something to do with Bluetooth? I did measure my supply pressure, and I'm convinced that's not my main problem, but I would be interested to know where you found that 3/4" gas hose. US Carburetion finally responded to my inquiry, but it was a terse reply that didn't actually answer my questions. Trying again. I'll buy their kit if it actually works, but I almost doubt that it does. They have a video online, but it's running at a fixed load and at high speed. And honestly, the engine doesn't sound all that great even in their own video. I asked if they had a video showing it running on ECO Throttle at varying loads, but no response to that so far. I want to see what happens when it's loafing along at ~500 VA and then it suddenly sees a 2000 VA microwave oven (or fill-in-the-blank big transient load). I'm right with on on the whole-house remorse. I could have bought a pretty nice standby generator for what I have invested in the failed Honda/Genconnex setup. The nagging thought that I keep having is that if the kit works as badly for everyone else as it does for me (and you), then surely they would be totally inundated with irate customers and lawsuits. They did offer me a refund, but as you can appreciate, I already had a huge investment of time and money by then, so it's just not that simple. A refund doesn't solve the problem.

@@Mark.Schneider Thanks Mark. I’m on hold for a while now until I get my new electronic component. At my house I’m likely to always have a decent base load, so if it runs ok at higher loads I suppose I’ll keep it, given the investment... Not sure yet. My hose is from MB Sturgis, you can google them. Nice and big and heavy duty, but still flexible, with quick connects.

Hi MrMark - Good News! We have listened to your request and have greatly improved ECO mode performance in our EU7000is Gen-3 conversion kits and generators. We are offering a free upgrade kit to all of our Genconnex customers that need or want the improved Gen-3 performance through the end of this year (2021). Just contact us by email at support@genconnex.net and we will arrange to send the new hardware, the two tools needed and simple instructions with a free return label. In addition, we’ve heard from our off-grid and autonomous system installers and our Gen-3 system now also includes an additional internal secondary shut-off solenoid to make installations quicker and easier!

Thanks for the comment @D P I would be very interested to see the well-documented information of which you speak. I got essentially the same advice from Genconnex, but unfortunately, it just isn't true. Running at full speed does mask the misfires to some extent, so perhaps someone who has less experience with engines than me might not notice it. Perhaps. But make no mistake - it still misfires and/or backfires, no matter how fast it's running. Running on propane does help...it runs stronger and complains less, but it is still far from perfect. By actual experimentation, I have determined that, contrary to the oft-repeated excuse about timing, the problem is as much about mixture as it is about timing. Back-firing occurs when unburned fuel explodes in the wrong place - it is a classic symptom of an over-rich fuel mixture. By reducing the jet size, I was able to make it run perfectly at no load, both with and without ECO Throttle. I monitored exhaust temperature during my testing, so I know that the leaner mixture didn’t increase the operating temperature as it might have if it had been too lean. The only trouble is that the “demand regulator” was not able to adequately respond to greater demands, so the engine starved for fuel as the load was increased. I didn’t bother to measure temperatures during those conditions because it seemed pointless, given that a 7000-watt generator that can’t produce more than 1000 watts is useless to me. It certainly is true that there was no problem when running on gasoline. Out of the box, the EU7000is was a well-oiled machine. I never saw or heard it miss a beat from zero to well over 7000 V/A. But then that's part of what makes the $699.99 Genconnex kit so disappointing - it essentially reduces the useful range to something like 2500 to 4500 V/A. A little less or a little more under certain conditions, but not reliably. As of today, the Genconnex website includes a disclaimer related to ECO Throttle, but they are still claiming that is work with propane. But that disclaimer was not present when I bought my kit. If you want to see how it looked when I bought mine, check out the Wayback Machine archive: web.archive.org/web/20200924213908if_/genconnexdirect.net/honda_generator_propane_kits.htm#xl_EU7000is:32KIT They actually called out, "Yes - ECO mode still works!" in a bold font. Even now they specifically tout how quiet the EU7000is is at 52 dBA, which cannot be achieved without engaging ECO Throttle. There was (and still is) prominent mention of EPA and CARB certification, which seems all but impossible while the engine is running so badly. They didn't mention the conditions of the test, but if it is the kind of testing that we do with cars, it would have to include an operation cycle, which would include multiple conditions under which the engine would typically operate. Such a test would include not only full speed / full load, but multiple speeds and loads. For example, the test for cars is not restricted to wide open throttle at the maximum speed of the vehicle, because that's not how cars are (typically) operated, and that's not how generators are typically operated either. I would take that one step farther to acknowledge the fact that anyone who pays ~$5499.99 for a Honda generator, does so in no small part because of the advantages of lower noise, better fuel economy and longer life associated with ECO Throttle. If I had known that my generator would lose ECO Throttle, I NEVER would have bought the Genconnex kit. To be fair, they offered to RMA the kit, but at that point I had already purchased the generator and converted it, so it wasn’t a particularly useful offer. Along with that, we had multiple hurricanes threatening us, so it would have been a lousy time to start over on getting a generator. Since my machine started out running on gasoline, I do have the option to un-convert it, but just know that with the Genconnex kit, that is a tedious process that would take me at least an hour, and I am a mechanic. Someone who wasn’t a mechanic would spend a lot longer. And even for someone who is a mechanic, unless one does this every day, it would still be likely to take a few hours. In my mind, this is a two-fold problem. First, perhaps there is no economical way to convert an EU7000is in a way that results in it running properly on natural gas. I don’t know if that’s actually true, but even if it is true, the second-fold is that Genconnex presented their products in a way that led me to believe that there actually WAS a way. One could argue that $699.99 isn’t actually “economical”, since there are plenty of generators out there selling for less than the kit alone, but I associated the high price with high quality. As a result, I bought into a plan and all of the equipment required to execute that plan, which failed to deliver the expected performance. I spent thousands of dollars and a great deal of precious time because I believed that I was buying an elegant and reliable solution. What I got instead was a whole lot of trouble. It “works”, so to speak, but it’s torture to the ears of anyone who has an understanding and appreciation of machinery. Exactly how “bad” this is for the engine, I cannot say, but I would bet money that it’s not “good” for the engine. And it’s particularly irritating to me, because I know that I could have bought a purpose-made permanently mounted natural gas standby generator for about the same money that I spent on my ill-fated rig. The only disadvantages would have been that it wouldn’t have been portable and it would have run at 3600 RPM, meaning that it would have been louder, but now that it’s too late, I’m being told than my EU7000is has to run at about that same speed and noise in order to run well. And in actual fact, it doesn’t run well at any speed, until it has a load that exceeds the power that my house most often uses, so it could be argued that the whole Genconnex mythology is a failure. The only graceful way out for me is to first lay out a lot of money for a new machine that will actually run properly on natural gas, then restore the Honda to the factory configuration and then sell it to recover some of my loss. It’s now used, so I probably can’t get what I paid for it unless I sell it in the aftermath of some major disaster. No way to know when that might be. And in good conscience, I don’t think that I could sell the conversion kit at any price, because I know that it doesn’t work. Not sure how I could disclaim all the issues and still have any hope of selling it. Something like, “If you want to run two 1500 watt heaters continuously, it works pretty well for that, but just don’t expect it to work well below that output, and don’t expect it to handle much more than around 4500 watts either, so something between 3000 and 4500 watts would be pretty good” ? Short of an outright lie, I can’t think of any way to spin it that would make anyone want to buy it. But I still have some small hope that some natural gas guru may see this video. Because I know it can be made to run smoothly by leaning out the fuel mixture, so all I need is an automated way to make that happen, as one might expect the “demand regulator” to do. My experience with emissions testing suggests that leaner is usually better, so I rather doubt that making it run right by leaning it out would hurt the emissions. I would expect quite the opposite. I don’t have enough information to dispute the claimed certifications, but I will say that it defies my own personal experience that an engine that’s running badly would pass any meaningful emission test.

To do this right and avoid burning valves and melting aluminum, the timing must be advanced on propane and even more advanced for natural gas. No way around it. Running natural gas, power on machine at full speed with timing advanced 5 degrees or more, use a vacuum gauge and adjust air fuel ratio to until maximum reading is achieved. Turn machine off. Test to see if it will restart easily. If it will not, reduce timing by a degree or so and try it. It’s a bit of trial and error to set properly. The important thing to avoid is rich mixtures without timing advanced. This can cause serious damage.

@@itsupport8569, have you ever actually worked on one of these machines? The reason I ask is because the timing on an EU7000is is controlled electronically by a thing Honda calls a "GCU" (generator Control Unit). As far as I can tell from the shop manual, ignition timing is pre-programmed and is not user adjustable. The same GCU controls almost everything, including fuel mixture. It seem to me that this shoots a significant hole in Genconnex assertion that the timing is "fixed", because the manual suggests that the GCU monitors timing ten times per crankshaft rotation, "...choosing the most appropriate ignition timing..." in real time. This certainly does track with my own personal experience, which strongly suggests that the problem is with fuel mixture, not with timing. I have to say that I think it would be really cool if someone would hack the factory programming so that it works just right with natural gas, but I don't know if it would be as simple as flashing a PROM, as has become popular with automotive "chip tuning". But something tells me that there just isn't enough demand to compel someone to go to the trouble, assuming that it is even possible. And lacking information to the contrary, the GCU may already be doing a perfect job of managing the timing, even while running on natural gas, which again brings us back around to improper fuel mixture, because the Genconnex kit defeats the GCU's control of fuel mixture, depending entirely upon the demand regulator. Hypothetically speaking, even if it could be manually adjusted in the way to describe, that would seem to miss the point, because the problem manifests itself with light loads, and is most noticeable at low engine speeds.

@@MstrMark I have owned several. I have never had one of these that was on Propane or Natural Gas. If this GX390 is controlled by computer that shouldn't be a problem. I can't diagnose this unit from here. You seem knowledgeable. Literally thousands of small engines out there are running on propane and natural gas. This should be easily resolved as I have converted several small engines myself, just not this specific model, and I have been successful every time. I would retrace the installation very carefully. Check for air leaks. Sorry I can't be of any real help.

@@itsupport8569 I really appreciate you trying. I have now converted three Honda EU generators. and they all have essentially the same problem. I take it to be an inherent weakness in the essentially identical demand regulators, but hey, maybe I make the same set of mistakes every time I convert one! If that's true, I sure would like to know what I keep doing wrong. I have a lot of experience as a mechanic, but exactly three experiences with natural gas conversions, and while that all "work" I don't consider any of them to be a success. With the EU 3000is, it was suggested that the hose between the regulator and the carb might be too long, but with the GenConnex kit, it is super short and direct. They run quite similarly, so I now doubt that the hose length has all that much to do with it. At least with the EU3000is it's easy to adjust the mixture...just turn the screw. It's a nuisance to have to tweak it every time the load changes, but with the Genconnex kit, there's no way to adjust it while its running. I've done a lot of orifice swapping and I can make it run well at any given load, but it's just not practical to have to swap jets every time the load changes.

Thanks for watching. Unfortunately, Genconnex doesn't seem to have a solution, so I really do hope someone who does will trip across this video!

Maybe look at spark plug heat range and go one colder?

@@chrisbale3194 the kit comes with a spark plug, and that is the one that was installed when I made this video. I'm still hoping that some conversion guru will happen to see this video. I paid a lot of money for the Genconnex kit, but I would be willing to pay yet again to make it run right.

@@MstrMark Hi MrMark - Good New! We have listened to your request and have greatly improves ECO mode performance in our EU7000is Gen-3 conversion kits and generators. We are offering a free upgrade kit to all of our Genconnex customers that need or want the improved Gen-3 performance through the end of this year (2021). Just contact us by email at support@genconnex.net and we will arrange to send the new hardware, the two tools needed and simple instructions with a free return label. In addition, we’ve heard from our off-grid and autonomous system installers and our Gen-3 system now also includes an additional internal secondary shut-off solenoid to make installations quicker and easier!

Genconnex sent me a refund instead of sending me their new kit. Why do you suppose they made that choice? Given the fact that my two videos showing it running badly have now received nearly 36,000 views, if they really did fix their kit, one might think that they would want me to make a video of the new kit, showing it running perfectly. They would then have been on their way to 36,000 views of their kit working great, along with my personal endorsement. But that's not the way it went down, so lacking evidence to the contrary, I can only assume that the new kit still lacks the essential functionality of altering the GCU programming, and if that's true, then it's hard to imagine that it's actually “fixed“. And I say that because after I received the US Carburetion kit, the very first thing that I did was to connect the USC black box module with the Genconnex kit still installed. That alone made the Genconnex kit run 90 percent better than before. That is why I believe the GCU programming to be the single most important factor. Other than that, all such conversion kits use the same Garretson-style demand regulator, so there is little else to distinguish one from another, other than the mechanical integration - in other words, how well it fits the specific machine and how easy it is to install. Genconnex wins in terms of maintaining a factory look, but fails in terms of actual functionality. The Genconnex kit is not particularly easy to install and their injection adapter is thick enough that it causes the rubber seals on the intake box to fail, so while it looks factory on the outside, it’s a mess on the inside. It also defeats the use of gasoline, which is a real shame, given the fact that the generator runs so very well on gasoline. By comparison, the US Carburation kit is mechanically quite generic, which is to say that it doesn’t even fit the machine as provided. It also hangs the regulator outboard, so it’s not nearly as clean-looking as the Genconnex kit. But by doing it that way, one gets tri-fuel operation, so it may be a fair trade-off. And their “Motor Snorkel” injection plate is very thin, allowing nearly stock alignment of the air box. And then there is that black box engine module thing - that’s the thing that causes it to actually work. It still needs some refinement, but it’s way better. In case you haven’t seen it, I have a video showing that kit in operation here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2NziDBzqI-Y.html

Thanks for the comments. For what it's worth, I tested my natural gas supply pressure, both static and under load. There is a video link to that test somewhere within these comments, although RU-vid certainly does make it difficult to follow the conversation. But suffice to say that the measured pressures were exactly as they should be. On the topic of propane, the kit does work a little better than it does on natural gas, but not much. On the kit design, Genconnex advertised the kit as requiring no adjustments, and indeed, they provided fixed orifices, so one can't adjust it even if one wants to. Since they advertised and sold a kit that can't be adjusted, I'm not sure it's useful to say that adjustment is needed - if it's "needed", then they need to make it possible to do so. I realize that there are an untold number of people posting stuff on RU-vid, and it's certainly true that there are a great many RU-vid videos made by people who either don't know the truth or are unwilling to tell it, so I can understand why you might doubt my credibility, but for what it's worth, when I had tried everything that I (and everything suggested in these comments) could think of, I decided to try a different kit. The results are shown here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2NziDBzqI-Y.html Executive summary: With no other changes to the machine or the gas supply, the US Carburetion kit succeeds where the Genconnex kit fails. The difference really is quite remarkable. Check it out.

@@MstrMark Wasnt doubting ya, just figured id make sure ya checked everything, as ive had to rebuild regulators, change orifices', n so on, much prefer the chinese carb kits that come with a regulator(variable) myself, if i had to guess, Genconnex is just repurposing a kit for a smaller genset(honda prolly), but due to this, the carb spacer with the NG outlet, might actually be too small, or be in a bad position, crap scam product, shouldnt be sold if thats the case, as those universal carb ones, ya can tune in any respect for just about any kinda engine, rn im making it work on briggs, when its made for honda's GX990's(4kw-5kw)

@@nekotherion7317 It sounds like you have some experience...that's usually worth more than speculation! In this case, the regulator is Garretson KN, which is a "universal" regulator. Genconnex may have adjusted it for the GX390(?), but they're pretty tight-lipped towards me about the whole thing, so that remains an unknown. But FWIW, when I received the US Carburetion kit, the first thing I tried was to hook up the black box that comes with that kit, using the regulator supplied by Genconnex just as it was, and that alone made the generator run WAY better, so while fuel mixture may contribute to poor light load performance, that black box solves most of the issues by itself. I suspect that that the box somehow allows the GCU to adjust the ignition timing in a way that is more appropriate for natural gas, but USC has been unwilling to disclose that information, so one can only guess. If the generator had a compatible OBD port, I could observe it with my diagnostic software, but after scouring through the Honda service manual, I get the impression than even official Honda shops lack such a tool. You mentioned "chinese carb kits that come with a regulator(variable)" - I'd be interested to see that - do you have a link you can share?

Hello Jose, Well, the EU7000is certainly does run well on gasoline, no doubt about that, but storing enough gasoline to get through a crisis situation that lasts more than a day just isn't practical.. That leaves propane, which can be stored indefinitely, and natural gas, which I don't personally have to store. So at some level, it doesn't really matter how efficient it is on natural gas, because I'm not likely to run out of it. So far, natural gas has never failed anywhere that I have lived, so its fair to say that it is very reliable. I have less experience with EU7000is run time on propane, but my Honda EU3000is runs almost the same length of time on a gallon of propane that it does on a gallon of gasoline. The trouble is that most exchange tanks around here only have about 3.5 gallons of propane in them, even though a 20 lb tank can hold almost 5 gallons, so naturally the run time is reduced. But one can get bigger tanks and also get an honest full tank at places that refill instead of exchange, so if one didn't have natural gas available. propane is still a viable option. The good news is that since this video was made, I have installed a different conversion kit, and it is running much better now. It is also a true tri-fuel conversion, so I now have the option to run gasoline, should both natural gas and propane fail me for some reason. This video shows the updated conversion, if you're interested: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2NziDBzqI-Y.html

I'm sure it depends upon a multitude of factors, but all things being equal, according to SAE testing, natural gas is actually easier on an engine than gasoline:www.sae.org/publications/technical-papers/content/901503/ I will say that this validates my own informal testing with an IR thermometer. The potential for damage, in my mind, is that it back-fires with the Genconnex conversion kit. It's not clear to me whether the explosions are happening in the exhaust system, or if it's happening in the combustion chamber, but either one seems bad to me. FWIW, I just ordered the US Carburetion kit like @browse deweb. If you haven't seen his video yet, you should check it out: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-KgRWa55kGMs.html

@@MstrMark Amsoil makes a special small engine oil that may help with engines running on natural gas. It's not cheap, and I'm still considering if I should try it. www.amsoil.com/p/10w-30-synthetic-small-engine-oil-ase/ I broke in my generator with the Honda SAE 30 oil and have a 5 qt container of AmazonBasics 10W-30 full synthetic just in case we get a long outage and I need to do oil changes every few days. Project farm did a good review which included this oil: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-a9DWGtXpYUc.html I view my backup generator as "insurance" and am kind of fanatical about making sure it is setup for success and always ready. Especially these days with all the crazy weather and grid failures, I don't want to be left without power.

@@browsedeweb8834 I used to sell Amsoil products at my shop...I have a lot of respect. With that said, I bought a Honda EU3000is in 1999. Since day one, I ran Valvoline in that engine. Not synthetic. Today, 22 years later, that generator is in my dad's garage, where it has been since I got my EU7000is. It has been a good machine, and most of the running that it did over the years was on natural gas. I always tried to change the oil at least once a year, but let it slide more than once. The wake up call for me is always when a hurricane is in the Gulf...I tend to get inspired at those times! Consider too my humble McLane frame edger - that little Briggs & Stratton engine is over 40 years old. It made it all those years on Valvoline straight weight oil, and I assure you that I have not been entirely diligent about changing the oil. I edged two of our family homes with it just a few days ago...it started on the first pull, as it usually does. So I'm just saying that while I do respect Amsoil, it's obviously not entirely necessary. And I'm not convinced that natural gas isn't inherently easier on engines than gasoline. There may have been a time, back in the days of engines that were designed for leaded fuel, when natural gas might have been harder on valves and seats than gasoline, but I think that concern went out with the seventies. And I suppose this could also be a commentary for the idea that simpler is better. With that little Briggs engine, there's just not much to go wrong...something that can't be said for the EU7000is. I was reluctant to buy a machine that is so dependent upon electronics. They have a good reputation, but just imagine trying to find a "GCU" in the aftermath of a big storm. Heck, since the entire Texas power grid froze over, it's nearly impossible to buy anything generator-related. But I digress... I do think synthetic oil is a good idea, though...better stability over time, which kind of validates the idea of annual oil changes. I've been using Mobil 1 in my vehicle for the last few years...it can be had for the same price as Amazon Basics, so for me, it seems like an easy choice. Not that I don't enjoy Project Farm...Todd has built a great channel by doing down-to-earth testing of everyday things. If I can finally make my generator run right I may start thinking about a backup to my backup. Maybe some spare parts for the EU-7000is...or some alternate source of power generation. As it is, I could always walk across the street to my dad's house, but I discovered that even that short walk can be treacherous in an ice storm. Maybe I should invest in some spikes? I nearly froze my face off at the gas station, just filling up some gas cans before the power even failed. IDK...what do people in colder climates do?

@@MstrMark With the Honda and Briggs engines, probably any oil is fine...they seem to be very well made. I'm probably just over analyzing stuff. I do have a magnetic oil dipstick and will be changing the oil every 50 hours or annually, whichever comes first. The AmazonBasics should be fine, and I probably won't use 5 quarts in 5 years unless we have a crazy long outage. Good luck on your US Carb testing. Hope it works our for you.

Hi MrMark - Good News! We have listened to your request and have greatly improved ECO mode performance in our EU7000is Gen-3 conversion kits and generators. We are offering a free upgrade kit to all of our Genconnex customers that need or want the improved Gen-3 performance through the end of this year (2021). Just contact us by email at support@genconnex.net and we will arrange to send the new hardware, the two tools needed and simple instructions with a free return label. In addition, we’ve heard from our off-grid and autonomous system installers and our Gen-3 system now also includes an additional internal secondary shut-off solenoid to make installations quicker and easier!

Hello Dwight, I had an email conversation with Gary at Genconnex. He told me that he had posted on this video. I responded directly to his post, but as you see, he has not engaged any further. I think I know why, but I’d just like to say in advance that this is speculation on my part. But since Genconnex has yet to send me the upgrade kit, and since we’re not getting any information to the contrary from Genconnex, I’ll share my thoughts and you can take them for whatever you think they’re worth. All along, I did my best to make it clear to Genconnex that it was not my goal to bash their conversion kit, but rather to find a solution to the problems (since they offered none). On multiple occasions, I offered to work with them on developing a solution. I was told repeatedly that because the EU7000is has fixed timing, and that no engine that is timed for gasoline will ever run right on natural gas. But I bought the EU7000is service manual from Honda, so I know that the engine does not have fixed timing - it is electronically controlled by the GCU (Generator Control Unit). I mention this because it is in direct conflict with the assertion that the timing is fixed, and that therefore the engine can never run properly on natural gas. I did enough experimentation on my own to discover that fuel mixture is also a factor, but every time I got the mixture lean enough to make the generator run well, the GCU would shut it down within a few minutes. And honestly, that probably never would have been a great solution anyway, because based upon my experience with an EU3000is conversion, where it is very easy to adjust the mixture (and it doesn’t shut down), adjusting the mixture like that only serves one particular load and RPM range. Make it idle great and then it will have no power under load. Make it run great under load and then it won’t idle. I always took that to be a shortcoming of the demand regulator, but now I have new information. After nearly a year had passed and I still had no solution from Genconnex, fellow EU7000is owner “ browse deweb “ posted here that he was getting better results with the Snorkel conversion kit from US Carburetion. At my request, he posted this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-KgRWa55kGMs.html As you can see, his generator was running way better than mine was in this video. I tried to get more details from US Carburetion, but their responses were not very helpful. Less engaging than Genconnex, honestly. It seems like everyone who sells conversion kits likes to act like the machine will run perfectly with their kit installed, although in my personal experience with half a dozen generator conversions, they never run quite right. The Genconnex kit being the worst so far, if only because their fixed orifice concept makes it so cumbersome to adjust the mixture, and because the EU7000is is just smart(?) enough to shut itself down, just as it starts to run well. Anyway, on the strength of browse deweb’s testimony alone, I bought one of the US Carb kits for myself. The kit comes with a “black box” module, so when I received the kit, the first thing I did was to install the module, with no other changes. For the first time since I converted the generator, it actually ran well. This leads me to believe that the module somehow modifies the GCU programming, such that the engine can then run well on natural gas. Perhaps it changes the timing curve, and/or the fuel mixture and/or defeats the shutdown that happened every time I tried to manually lean out the mixture. Again, total conjecture on my part, but I doubt that any of us would be able to get any details from US Carburetion. The cover on my module had popped off in transit, so I got a chance to look inside, but it is potted in epoxy, so there is no way to see the internal components, and thus no way to make an educated guess about what the module might be doing. But I can tell you this - it makes the engine run way better on natural gas than it does without the module. And with no other changes to the Genconnex conversion. Convinced that the EU7000is actually could run well on natural gas, I then set out to install the complete US Carburetion kit. It’s fair to say USC kit doesn’t fit the machine very well, and you can see some of the issues I ran into here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ppTNmzg7zjY.html And I think it’s worth mentioning too that their tech support did me no good. They seem to have the attitude that it’s a “kit”, so if it doesn’t fit right, that not their problem. Seems pretty slack to me, but I was able to make it work, and the generator runs well, which in my mind is the single most important factor. Although not everyone would have the tools and experience that I have, so that could be a significant barrier. In any case, you can see my end result here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-2NziDBzqI-Y.html Following that last video, I then removed the Genconnex kit completely and re-installed the original fuel tank, which restored the option to run on gasoline (with the flip of a switch). I then went back to Genconnex and took them up on their earlier offer of a refund. To their credit, they issued a refund, and didn’t ask me to return the kit. I expressed my gratitude, and once again extended the offer to help them develop a kit that runs as well as the US Carburetion kit, but it seemed clear to me that they still didn’t want to collaborate with me. The talk of the new and improved kit is intriguing, so I offered to share the results on RU-vid, but they politely declined. I have to believe that if it actually worked, that they would have been anxious to get one into my hands. Again, sheer speculation on my part, but their unwillingness to collaborate with me makes me think that the new kit probably doesn’t work much better than the last one. Think about the fact that my two videos of their kit working very badly had already received something like 10,000 views at that time. I’m guessing those views represent a lot of people who will avoid the Genconnex kit. So I have to ask myself, if they really have solved the problem, why in the world wouldn’t they want me to post a video showing how great the EU7000is runs with their new kit? If I see evidence to the contrary, I will certainly post that here as well, but seeing is believing. If Genconnex was confident in their product, they would be well-served to send me a new EU7000is, pre-converted and ready to run. It would be great exposure for them.

@DennisK Thanks for the comment. I can understand why you might think that, but in experimenting with different gas orifices, increasing the flow actually makes it run worse. Genconnex says that the problem is with Honda's static timing, and I believe that to be part of the problem, but it's not the only problem, because it also runs rough with eco throttle disabled, where the engine is running at full speed, but still under less than full load. The problem is load dependent more than RPM dependent. I'm not sure how to prove it, but my impression is that the demand regulator just doesn't respond very well to demand. The included orifice seems just about right somewhere around 4500 watts, but gets steadily over-rich as loads decrease. I have experimented with smaller orifices, and I can get it to run well with light loads, but then it starves out at higher loads. Again, it just doesn't seem like the regulator regulates adequately. FWIW, I see very similar results on an EU3000is using a different conversion kit (but with a similar regulator) from a different company, so I am getting the strong sense that these demand regulators just don't do what is needed for dynamically changing loads. If one had a predictable unchanging load, like say, charging off-grid batteries at a fixed current, then one could reasonably find an orifice that would make the generator run perfectly, but with ever-changing loads, it just doesn't work very well. How Genconnex managed to get EPA certification for a conversion that makes the engine run so badly, I honestly cannot imagine. Maybe they only tested at a single static load...(?)

Yes you are correct, fuel demand does change more based on load but that’s disappointing they aren’t even in the right ballpark to make it run correctly throughout the different ranges. Do other people say they have luck with this kit?

The fact that the company doesn’t know how to help you get it fixed basically shows how little effort the put into it.

@@SenorDennis I don't know if it works for anyone else or not. That's one of the main reasons I posted the video - I was hoping to get some feedback. Because, as I'm sure you know, online reviews are not necessarily real. If I, as a mechanic, can't make it work, then it's hard to imagine that a less experienced person could do better. But at the same time, I have very little experience with natural gas conversions, so I am hoping that someone with more experience has already discovered a solution. I will say that It's the best-looking conversion I've seen, but even so, I'm really disappointed that it doesn't run any better than it does. At some level, I understand their position...this may be the best that can be done with this type of regulator, but on the other hand, I wouldn't have gone down this path if I had known that it wouldn't run properly. If something doesn't turn up here, I will be faced with starting over again with a machine that is actually designed to run on natural gas. I've spent so much time and money on this setup that it's hard to imagine starting over again.

MrMark Hello Mark: Are you attempting to run this setup on natural gas or propane? Have you measured how stable your fuel pressure is right after your gas regulator? The eu7000is is a fairly large generator. You need a 60 to 100 pound propane tank to get enough fuel to transition from liquid to vapor to get this to fly smoothly. Same issue with natural gas, you may be starved for fuel pressure if you don’t have adequate pressure across your system. If you have a manometer-type of pressure gauge....check to see that the fuel pressure is stable when running up and down the load/power band. You should be able to maintain 7 to 11 inches of water column (pressure) to that inlet on top of the generator from no load to full load. If the fuel supply is unable to keep up, a natural gas engine will exhibit the same symptoms you are experiencing. Good luck Sir, and please keep us apprised as to your progress.

I'm sorry, but I can't make sense of what you're trying to ask.

Hi Pete, the Genconnex kit has the regulator mounted inside the covers, in the space that was originally occupied by the fuel tank. According to Genconnex, "We use the kN style demad regulator...". I can confirm that it's a big demand regulator, and the design of the kit looks good on paper, but in my experience, it looks better than it actually is. It does work slightly better on propane than it does on natural gas, but I don't have a 1000 gallon propane tank like you do, so I need it to work on natural gas. I know of Hutch Mountain, and they do appear to be using the same type of regulator, but last time I looked, they didn't have anything for an EU7000is.

For future reference, I would appreciate it if everyone would post their questions and comments in English. Google Translation: "How much power does it give, how many hours it lasted what is process" Even having translated this, i still don't fully understand the question, but I'll take a stab at it. It "gives" a maximum of around 5500 watts while running on natural gas. But the point of this video is that the Genconnex kit doesn't handle lighter loads very well, so please check out the follow-up videos that I have posted above. "hours it lasted" - indefinitely on natural gas, with the only limitation being the required oil change interval. "what is process" - process of what? Again, the reason for this video is show that it runs badly with the Genconnex kit. If you want to see the conversion process (with a kit that works better), check out my other videos on this subject.

@ john spinosa, no I haven't, although I can't imagine Honda offering support for a conversion that they never imagined. And FWIW< it runs great on gasoline, which is the fuel Honda designed it to run on. 1 month ago

@@MstrMark I can confirm that. I have a new Honda EU7000 and it runs great. Gas cans and gas are fairly cheap and pain free.

@@miller1 If only there was a safe way to transport, store, and keep 100 gallons of gasoline fresh, that would make it an easy choice. If one wants two weeks worth of backup power, that's what it comes down to. In the winter storm that Texas experienced a few weeks ago, millions of people were without power for the better part of a week. In Hurricane Ike, we were down here for three days(?) and I personally know people (in my neighborhood) who were down for over a month, so in that case, 100 gallons wouldn't have been enough. After two weeks, one might expect the roads to be passable enough to go in search for fuel, but then how does one transport 100 gallons of gasoline? I know they make auxiliary tanks for pickup trucks, but then one has to drive around all the time with 630 pounds of gasoline (plus the weight of the tank) that's going to go bad within a matter of months. One can squeeze some extra life out of it by using fuel stabilizer, but nobody seems to know just exactly how long it will last. Practically speaking, one would need two 50 gallon tanks is order to rotate it. Or 20 five-gallon cans, but it's not legal to store more than two of them in a garage. Assuming I could find room in my garage. No, that's not for me. A friend of mine drove around for hours trying to find fuel during the recent blackout, but the stations that had backup power were all sold out. That's a pattern we see after every hurricane, except that the power outages have historically been less global, so if one can drive to another part of town, one can usually find fuel. Although it might mean waiting in line for hours and in the past, there has been some rationing, so even after waiting, there might be a 10-gallon limit. Basically, if one doesn't already have enough fuel, well in advance, it's going to be hard to come by. I found a 110 gallon gasoline trailer online...but one would need two of them in order to rotate the fuel, and they are $9K each. That's pretty hard to justify. Plus the nuance of trying to figure out how to park two fuel trailers in a way that I can move them by myself for refueling. I think I'd have to cut down some trees and pour a concrete pad behind my garage. And then at that point, I would have spent quite a bit more than a dedicated standby generator (that is engineered to run on natural gas). This is pretty much the way all generator thought experiments go - if one only wants ~32 hours of backup power, that's pretty easy - just get an EU7000is and a couple of 5-gallon cans of gasoline. But beyond that, it gets a lot harder.

Hi MrMark - Good News! We have listened to your request and have greatly improved ECO mode performance in our EU7000is Gen-3 conversion kits and generators. We are offering a free upgrade kit to all of our Genconnex customers that need or want the improved Gen-3 performance through the end of this year (2021). Just contact us by email at support@genconnex.net and we will arrange to send the new hardware, the two tools needed and simple instructions with a free return label. In addition, we’ve heard from our off-grid and autonomous system installers and our Gen-3 system now also includes an additional internal secondary shut-off solenoid to make installations quicker and easier!