Walter, I recently started watching your videos in a seemingly religious way. You are doing something that no other is at the moment. You are actually educating us beginners with our common man tools, and giving us a rough taste of the theory involved. and your whit makes it entertaining. Thank you very much, and please keep making these videos.
The forge that I've used for years uses a cheapo hair dryer that I found for 10$ at Walmart. With a few fire bricks, a stainless box and a length of black steel pipe, I built my forge for roughly 30$ over a weekend. The Charcoal forge is by far the simplest forge to build and obtain all the parts for.
ive successfully heat treated about 2 dozen knives made from 1095 using a method very similar to this. half of them were done in a homemade bucket forge and the rest from the lid of a stainless steel gas grill that i modified with some fire bricks and refractory cement. i can give a few pointers that might save some people from making bad decisions. Mr. Sorrells covered just about everything here, but i would definitely recommend giving yourself plenty of room in (or on) whatever surface your using. for example in my little bucket forge it was just too small and the bottom was way hotter than the top so i ruined a few knives because the tips got so hot they melted. secondly, regular charcoal works just fine if you cant find the lump or whatever. actually i prefer it because the natural stuff sends up huge amounts of embers that can land on something and easily catch it on fire without you knowing. the briquettes get plenty hot to heat treat simple high carbon steel. but the hairdryer is a MUST. it will not get nearly hot enough without it. ive used hair dryers as well as the little pumps that come with some air mattresses. also, hes very correct about the hardness once you quench it. be very, very careful with it until it is fully tempered!!! i cannot stress this enough because i have accidentally dropped two knifes on my way to the temper oven that shattered. if you get warps or anything else, then heat it back up before you start messing around with it because it will most likely break if you dont. also, its a good idea to inspect the blade thoroughly before heat treating because if it has any warps or flaws already, then its very probable that it will cause some serious damage during the quench. ive had warps, splits, breaks, cracks. as soon as you dunk it in the oil be very still and listen for just a moment. if you hear something that sounds like TING!! then you blew it. if you hear nothing and feel nothing, then chances are you probably didnt ruin it. when im using very thin steel i will only do a basic grind on the blade before treating it because the thinner it is the bigger chance it has to mess up during this stage. with thicker steel you dont have to worry so much about cracking or breaking, but depending on the size you can still get some serious warps. also, always do the file test!!!! there is nothing worse than going through the whole process of making the knife, heat treating, putting on handle scales, profiling, fit and finish, sharpening, etc. only to have the edge completely roll over the first time you use it because it wasnt hardened like you thought it was. so always test it!! if you test it immediately after quenching it and it isnt hard, then you can just do it again until you get it right. but if you wait until youre completely finished with it then you dont have very many options at that point (other than maybe using a torch to do a differential hardening). for tempering i just use my toaster oven. he mentioned the amount of scale on the blade after heat treating and that is something that you need to consider beforehand. dont waste time getting the blade perfect before heat treating it because you will need to grind off the scale. so if you spend the time to get a great satin finish on it with perfect bevels, then youre probably going to be disappointed once you pull the blade out of the oil. hope this saves at least one future blade.
Thanks, i have 1.5 mm thick steel with shaped bevels (so ultra thin) is it sure im going to be disapointed? I tried once and blade cracked and warped, but it was 1.2 mm china steel
Walter, thanks for taking the time to educate those of us who want to hobby build without spending thousands on tools we won't use enough to justify the $$$. Any chance of you doing a karambit in the future?
+Autistic Fingoloid maybe we study Kali and want to learn how to forge and grind our own custom weaponry. Next time keep your comments on the same intelligence level as Walters teaching. Thanks!
I'm making a shake out of a leaf spring using a similar method, but instead of an open pit, I'm using a discarded oil barrel. It works better than one may think for getting the steel up to temp...and you can tune the vent holes at the bottom to draw a vortex of air, to get it really hot, and cut slots at different heights from the coals to get a rough temperature difference. Its a good method for those without the proper equipment.
today I actually welded a small billet about 2 inches long,1 in wide,3 inches thick using only charcoal and bellows in a brake drum forge, my first time,I also heat treat katana blades up to 34 inches long using only charcoal and bellows for air.I live in Tanzania,ur tips have been of much use Walter Sorrels thanks for sharing
Another way to temper the blade with a fire is to heat another piece of metal and lay the spine of the blade on it. The heat transfers through the spine and should leave the edge harder.
+Colson Customs Thats also the way I learned it at a knife maker (in a 2 days workshop). I also can imagine its more evenly heatet that way and its much easier to see the actual color of the blade while heating it.
+Colson Customs I can't post the link to it apparently, but if you search for "Blade_Forger.wmv www.taliesinpewter.co.uk" and go to about 8:30 it shows this beautifully. Great video to watch if you've got a little time.
Walter, I wish that you had done this one last week I just did a blade yesterday in a similar way, had to do it 3 times to get it all treated, first 2 times I did not get the tip on a machete hot enough and it was soft, I ended up using charcoal and some coal that I had in a trench with a hair dryer taped to a pipe with holes drilled in the top side placed in the bottom of it to get enough heat to get the whole blade up to temp :) thanks for the great information
If you don’t have a hair dryer, you can use a bellows. If you don’t have a bellows, you can use a large fan (the non-electric kind you wave with your hand). If you don’t have a fan, you can get several sturdy friends to blow through tubes (hollow reeds, for example). If you don’t have friends (after you roped them into your last project), get to work making a bellows.
Thank you Walter, sustainable, simple and worthwhile. We use our rocket stove style heater, wood fired, 45 min to glowing same color as embers(orange) quenching in cold alkaline water for best results. Water is super infused Borax and Epsom salts best result when solution near freezing. Wonderful hardness. Charcoal is old world and ok by me. Thank you and aloha
Awesome, Thank you Mr. Sorrells. I think I have a pretty comprehensive guide to start my own bladecraft. I appreciate your knowledge and expertise, and never before have I had such confidence in crafting my own steel.
i used a pit forge, dug into the ground with a shopvac blowing air into the bottom through a vent tunnel. I was only using wood, but I threw a bunch in there and the fire was ROARING out the top. I didn't know it at the time, but the fire was hot enough to melt the tip of my blade and it turned bright yellow hot. long story short, My knife is now about two inches shorter. I might just restart the blade, but do it more patiently this time.
I find all the hair dryer jokes hilarious... I recently got one and found it to be one of the most useful tools I own. As long as you are careful not to overheat, you can use it for a thousand tasks: Making sure washed kit is totally dry before stowing it in your pack, warming up the inside of your boots when you've treated them, softening Kydex to reshape a sheath..... its almost embarrassing how useful a hairdryer is.
You really do have that natural knack for teaching. Thank you so much for your videos. The 3 videos I've watched so far answered so many questions I had before trying my hand at making a blade. Invaluable info here. Will definitely be hitting your patreon as a thank you!
I did actually get the temperature up with charcoal briquettes like Sorrells says may work, but then when I switched to hardwood charcoal without realising they weren't the same the difference was significant. There must have been something like a 200 degree difference, and less ash.
Great video, sir. I've been watching different video on how to learn tempuring, heat treating, quenching, the basics. This video is hands down the the easiest to understand and base knowledge upon. Everything that I wanted to know was found on this video. left a like for ya ;D. I enjoy how much you explain things in a easy but progressive manner. You kept A LOT of the filler out, which as a viewer, bugs the hell out of me. I will be subscribing for sure 👍🗡
Man I would love it, and probably a lot of others too, if you would do that video on heat treating theory. Especially if you talked about normalizing and annealing too. Those are the kind of subjects that get all muddied up in schientific text that a normal guy like me has a bit of trouble with getting their head around.
Hi Walter, I'm a new knife maker. Got into it about 2 months ago. I am a lover of knives. I have a small man cave/workshop which affords me enough space for the equipment I need to get started. I have a couple of books and have enjoyed watching knifemakers on youtube. My question is, can I get a decent knife from a 1x30 belt sander? Question two, freehand or jig?
Thanks Walter! I learn something from you every time because you explain your actions, example: ..Swirl the blade around in the oil to dissipate heart faster... That is why I subscribed; Go Clemson!!!
you can use the typical backyard briquettes but you must make a more enclosed furnace, preferably something with a lid to retain the heat. try making a forge from fire bricks or use grant Thompsons video on the mini metal foundry and use that as a forge, i use it and it works fine
For anyone wondering if you have a medium carbon steel (like a non name brand file) you must simply quench it in water or ice water if its a low/med steel like a railroad spike or something about .3-.4 carbon and move it around so a steam jacket doesn't form, this will work with home depot weld steel, but it wont be hard or tough, it will just be a bit springier than usual
Is there any chance you'll ever do a video for us on clay tempering? What mixture, and how to? Also, how, or did the Japanese sword makers temper their swords after the quench? That's something I've never heard about or seen in a video of a quench, thank you Walter.
+Shane K I've got two videos on the whole clay quenching subject (one on forging generally, and the other on hamons specifically) available on my web site www.waltersorrellsblades.com. As far asJapanese sword makers tempering their swords, it's actually typically done somewhat like I do it here -- in other words it's a fairly rapid treatment that might be more what modern metallurgists would call stress relief than the sort of hour-in-an-oven approach that's more typical of modern edge tool makers.
Hey I have some tips for charcoal heat treating ! First, I've melted 1084 with this method , but I was useing a shop vac for my air supply , I eventually figured out that most shop vacs are TOO POWERFUL! mine made mire spit and burn away so quick so fast I didn't have time to refuel it . But I did melt 1.5 inches off the tip of one of my blades .
I noticed you are wearing the purple filters on the respirator. Are those the full cross-spectrum gas filters with particulate filters built in? They are basically the civilian equivalent of a military NBC filter right? May I ask why you chose them?
Japanese people have made swords with wood forever. But for someone without the experience it helps getting a laser thermometer to get the temperature of the blade if you can’t identify it just by the glow of it
I redo charcoal case hardening on those Italian reproduction guns of the old west, all the time. It wears off very easily compared to real case hardening. My staple charcoal starter stock is mesquite lump charcoal, mixed with my own home made charcoals, using fruit woods, and any other hard woods I can lay my hands on. I want either that plumb and brown mottling or that colorful peacock with the purples, blues, browns, yellows, and rose coloring. KINGSFORD IS SAWDUST, CLAY, GRAVEL AND DIRT PRESSED INTO LITTLE CARBON BISCUITS, AND IT'S MOSTLY CLAY, DIRT AND GRAVEL. Diablo makes a nice mesquite charcoal that lasts, but mesquite is kind of an acacia type wood.
First off, Walter, i love your videos. Im also getting confused. I was going to start using O1 tool steel, but read a lot of people saying 1084 is much easier to heat treat at home, and best to leave the 01 to professionals for heat treating. You say both steels use the same method. Anyone care to chime in? Id like to use the 01 over the 1084, but unsure if i can without an electrically controlled kiln.
Those things won't just melt steel, they'll burn through it like an acetylene torch if you're not careful and get too close to the oxygen supply. My early works mostly ended that way, with a gaping hole in the middle of it. At least it was free leaf springs I got from a nearby garage :P Only the charcoal was wasted.
how do I put somewhat of a hard edge on a knife with a blow torch, canola oil and a toaster oven? heat the metal until it’s red hot, stick it in the oil, wait til it cools, then put it in the toaster at 425 for an hour, then shine it and sharpen it. will that work ok? do i have that right? is it good enough for a cheese knife? i just want to make a few knives for myself and family, with somewhat of a hardened edge so it will stay sharp for a while. i’ll make these knives with old carbide saw blades or some steel hanging around in my shed. thank you in advance for your response :)
Awesome video once again, Walter. I don't know if that is a recurrent question but, would you mind putting annotations regarding the temperature in degrees Celsius (we use ISU here in Brazil)? Sometimes is hard to keep focus on the video when I have to convert every temperature mentioned. Thanks a lot!
Hey Walter, i often find that the lower center of a regular campfire gets pretty damn hot, I buried the knife under the hot bed and it got bright red within minutes. How reliable would you say this is? I mean, it just saves me money on coal really
Usually when you temper a simple carbon steel knife, you put it in an oven at 400 for about 2 hours... with this technique, is the blade tempered once it has reached that yellow colour? Or do you need to hold it at that temperature for a certain amount of time?
Walter I tried heat treat my blade and think I may have not got it right. Parts seem hard while other gets bite from the file. Put it back on the coals tries again but still has the same issue. How many times can I heat treat the same blade
Great video Walter ,but I have a few questions.How thick the edge of the blade must be before hardening and before tempering.Lets say if I harden the knife with the thickness of the edge of the blade of around 1 mm after that should I just clear the blade to be able to see the colors and temper the blade with the edge of 1 mm or should I make the edge thicker and then temper the knife.I have only files and angle grinder as tools and I am worried if I temper and harden the knife with 1 mm thickness of the edge of the blade it will be verry hard to make the edge thicker with just files and if I use the angle grinder to make the edge thicker I am worried I will destroy the colors that are formed after tempering since the work with the angle grinder will produce a lot of heat on the blade.Or should i harden the knife and then make the edge thicker with the angle grinder and then temper the knife ?I don't know what to do.
Hi! Looking for some tips of doing HT on 5160 steel, and I have sort of found reading alot that you can get away heating to 1500F and quench in pre-heated canola oil (about 130F). Then I see some temper 2 or even 3 times at 375-400F. Novice here, its again just figures that seems to be common.
I tried my first knife and I don't think it came out right. Can I do it again or is it to late? Also does the oil need to be hot when I put the knife in it?
The file test did not work on my 1075 steel. I thought it was still soft and when I went to straighten my warped knife, it broke.:( Does 1075 not get hard enough for the file test? Thanks.
How much/can/should i grind the edge of teh knife before i harden it? I've only done one knife, from an old file. It cracked in several places across the edge and it bent as well. Sure, i did alot of mistakes/didnt lry know. I probably hade to high temp, I quenched it in water. But I think my main problem was that I grinded it to much/it was quite thin. (I thought it would be smart to grind it as much as possible before it would get hard). How much griding work should you do before you treat it?
I've only heat treated a few knives but I've been doing it with the spine down and the edge and tip just outside the main heat. I am just curious if there may be something wrong with doing it this way that I am just not picking up on. In my mind it makes it easier to control the temperature and lowers the risk that I will burn or overheat them.
hey Walter, love your videos. But curious, how bout using the same method in this video, but instead of hard wood charcoal.... use just a normal wood camp fire? Can the correct temperatures be achieved this way?
+Vox Populi I would imagine if you drove the fire hard enough, cut up the wood into fairly small pieces and some other things that you could get there. But it would be a lot harder than doing it with charcoal.
Walter Sorrells I figured this much. I think you have the best videos, and source of information when it comes to making knives, and i think your attention to detail is top shelf, and hope i can get my work to that level as well. Not sure how familiar you are with Schrade schf12 or 11. They are china made production knives , but i love the design of those two. In the hands of someone like yourself that design would be pretty cool. I have hoped for a while to see a video of yours making something like that. Just a hopeful idea of mine. Thank you Mr Sorrells
lots of wire, some coiled coper pipe, amp and volt meter, 35a 100v transistors, fast diodes, 1kv polypropylene capacitors 12 volt regulator. 240 ohm resistors and some other bits and peices
You totally lost me at transistors ; ) I've seen them on RU-vid but never in real life. Does it heat up anything or does it have to be metallic? Also, if you wrapped up a steel bar in rubber or some other insulation would it still heat up? I'm just wondering if you could cover the back half of the blade in clay or tarr and that part not heat up? Thanks!
Shane K the heater works through the process of magnetic induction, in a smiler fashion to a transformer, however the energy in the iron is not transferred to electrical energy and therefore manifests itself as heat energy. this means that only ferrous metals would work. also rapping it in something would not make a difference, but could catch fire as the metal heats up.
I have just subscribed to your channel and really enjoy your videos. you have probably covered this in one of your other videos but I haven't got round to watching them all yet.. so my question is would you drill all the holes for your handle scales before hardening and tempering the blade, I am looking into making myself a knife using the older methods (cheaper) methods and need all the help i can get as I have no experience. thanks for your time & tips