Anytime I play that song, my Daughter always refers to it as “the motorcycle song” That’s the sound of a good cam and timing on a v-twin. Somewhere between “Hot For Teacher” and “Matter of Time”
You started out talking about that "lope" sound, but then changed the subject to dyno charts. I'm looking for some better sound out of my 114 M8, and I'm learning that these different cams have different sounds to them. That's what most people want to know about. I swear, if the cams, piston, etc.. didn't change the sound then hardly anyone would invest that kind of money. So PLEASE talk about the sound man!
Personally I would go with the S&S because it makes torque right where I can use it. I don't drag race and my engine would rarely experience wide open throttle. Seems like cruising on the highway with this cam the roll-on power would be right at your fingertips.
I agree about the “never full throttle”… been there done that, BUT I found out after trying one of my buddies M8 Streetglides that the “stock power band” until approx. 2000 rpms was sufficient for daily city- cruising and stop’n go traffic. My buddy had a Zippers 468 and I was really impressed when the meanest torque started around the 2000 rpm mark,… the heavy bike just took off with a true V-thunder out the pipe…I knew I had to have that 468 cam installed in my bike… and so I did and haven’t regretted since 👍🏻
Thanks for the video, great information. I haven't experienced the other cams but I know that the Redshift 468 "Zipper's Performance Cam took my Dads 107 to 107 Horse power and 117 foot pounds of tourqe. He's very pleased with it and it sounds good. Again thanks for the information I enjoy these types of videos.
My friends Street Glide in the clip has the Zippers 468, it made a huge difference! That bike with just the 468 cam, full Rinehart Exaust and air cleaner feels like a heavily modified twin cam.
Would like to hear a m8 114 with a different cam , I got a 2019 road glide ultra with the m8 it's too quiet , and don't seem as fast as my 2013 road glide
I went with a Zippers RS 468 cam in my 2019 Road Glide 114". I like it because it produces good power in the RPM's ranges that I pretty much live in 2200 to 3500.
hi gixxerfoo. awesome videos im thinking about getting a 2023 fatboy114, then having a cam nstalled down the road. would you recommend getting a new oil pump and plate? or are the 2023's ,114 motors improved?? thanks, steve
Mentioned prices are only for the cams. You're gonna need new lifters ($300~$400), adjustable pushrods ($200~$300), and a tune ($400~$800). If you're not doing the upgrade yourself, you'll also be paying for labor ($800~$1200). All in all it can run well over $2000 for a cam upgrade. That's in addition to the required Stage I upgrade (A/C breather and slip-ons). Still, a Stage II is the best bang for your buck. The gains are significantly higher than a Stage I, and the costs are significantly lower than a Stage III.
Totally agree. Not all Cams need adjustable pushroads (dependind on what engine: 107-114-117) but Tappets are important. Costs mentioned are just right. The final statement is 100% true: a well done Stage 2 (with Stage 1 including pipes and not just mufflers) is definitely Best Bang for the Buck even vs a Stage 3 with SE components.
for me I couldnt imagine owning a harley without the deep harley chop sound, I put a stage 2 in my 2021 rg 114 motor, screaming eagle cam, vance n hines power dual header pipe, n Reinhart slips, putting out about 117 torque at 3500 rpm and just 103 horsepower, but my Gosh this is the best n loudest harley as I have ever heard n has plenty of power for me compared to my last 103 n it ran strong too, my build now was to get a bit more power, but wake up that 114 get it breathing great n sounding the best I could without getting ride of the brand new bikes warranty, I'm going to ride the heck out of it for the next 2 yrs n then decide if I want a different cam , but most likely its staying this way, Its got all i need for how i ride n more n that sound note is perfect for me, what is amazing I see guys all the time on here putting a stage 2 after market cam and producing better dyno numbers that a 131 puts out at a much cheaper price, i'm really surprised so many guys pay for a 131 when they really just need a cam
Moonshine harley is doing some insane motor work if your rich, you can have an amazing m8 motor...also, I thought everyone wants the sns 475 cam?....is that more of a top end cams than torque?
I had a 2000 Deuce that sounded like crap and nothing like a Harley at idle, I very soon sold it. The only reason I ride a V-twin is because of the sound.
Don't these High horsepower camshaft hammers a top-end to death in short order? Does everything outside of the camshaft have to be upgraded to handle the horsepower?
Who is going to rev their milwaukee-eight to 5600 RPM and how long can the engine last being run at that speed? Say if you were on the Autobahn how fast can it go all day without shedding its guts all over the highway?
The BEST CAM is the one that SOUNDS THE BEST! I was thinking you would share the sound with each.. That would have been very cool.. Great video regardless, Thanks.
so what's needed for a stage two If I have already a stage one on my M8 114? I dont care about any gains... All I really care is the best loping sound. Thanks in advance
Although I don't own an M8, Gixxer, I was once again am VERY impressed with the info about cam choice on the M8 and the manner with which you present it. I didn't know about the crappy idle🤔 Keep up the great work Sir!!!
Hello I'm researching a cam upgrade for my 107 and I'm between the s&s 465 and 475. Doing for the sound not power and torque. Love the 475 but I'm hearing it's too big and will lead to problems down the road. Will the 107 handle the 475? Should I go with the 465 or is it just a myth? Thank you
The 475 is designed to be a bolt in cam and work with the stock valve train components. Both are bolt in cams, I like torque so I would lean towards the 465 myself. But either cam should be fine in the engine, they are designed by S&S for stock components. It is arguable there could be issues down the road with anything in my opinion.
Can I just swap out the cam and be good to go? I see many kits have upgraded push rods, lifters, etc. Do I need to swap with an entire cam kit? Do I need a new oil pump?
It depends on the cam, some require adjustable pushrods on the bolt ins. Adjustable pushrods just make installation easier and cheaper without tearing down the top end. You don't necessarily need a new oil pump, cam plate or lifters but it's a good idea to go ahead and upgrade while you're in there.
Hey Gixx, I would like to hear about variable valve timing, yeah I could Google it but I can't be the only one who understands it better when somebody can explain it, thanks
@@GixxerFoo Your reply just cause me to subscribe. Looking forward to Friday's video. FYI, I went with the 22XE as well, and love it....check out the specs....very similar timing and duration to the Redshift 472, but with a little less lift. Lots of torque right where you want it! Great sound and lots of power with the right tune.
The best cams that fit that bill are anything from Wood, the biggest decision with a Wood is how much power do you want. The Wood cams really tend to beat all the competition at every level of RPM. One draw back with the Wood is they do make the valve train noisy, they just have serious ramp angles.
I’ve got my 114 in the shop now getting the Wood WM822XE cam, Thundermax tuner, V & H Power Dual headers with CFR slip on’s & Arlen Ness inverted big sucker air cleaner!! Sounded like a sewing machine compared to my 103!!
That bike is going to rip when you get it back! That Wood cam is a monster, plus that ThunderMax is the way to go with a tuner! Yeah the new M8's just don't have the thump like the Twin Cams did, you won't have that issue with the new cam though!
These are all excellent cams, and all huge upgrades over a stock engine. If you're looking for lope, nothing beats the S&S. If you're looking for performance across a wide rev range, the Wood.
Hello GixxerFoo. I am new to all this. I am also really impressed with your video. I own a 2018 RGS 107. I am interested in the Cam upgrade. Can you help me select and upgrade that would satisfy my riding needs without breaking the Bank? A little about my riding habits. I ride a few times a month, mostly to work. I ride with a group of friends every now and then. With that said which Cam upgrade would you suggest for me? Thanking you in advance. Lou
It's really hard to beat that Red Shift 468, it's a great all around cam and it's not too crazy. It performs very well in all riding situations from city to highway. Fortunately with the M8 there is only 1 cam so that helps keep the cost down quite a bit.
@@maddawg4599 Had Harley do the work and it was $1,100. I already had a stage 2 with the SE cam so I didn’t have to buy push rods or have a high flow air filter installed. It was just for the cam swap, labor, and power vision map. However, I just dropped my bike at the dealership again because the map was not very good. They are going to put it on the dyno so that will be another $400. It will be totally worth it. I thought I could just do a map to save $$ but I wanted to be as fine tuned as possible.
Hello. That's a nice bike. I have a question. My motorcycle is fltrx which was shipped in 22 years. I usually run from 1500 rpm to 3500 rpm. What kind of camera is right for me? 475? 465? Does 475 have a severe fever? I want to change the camera and feel the vibration and sound more shaky than the pure sound and vibration. Like an old bike. Is the 475c cam effective after 2500 rpm? Does the 465c cam have a good effect from 1500 rpm? Thank you for reading the question and please reply. Have a nice day.
Thank you! I appreciate the support! It's gonna interesting to get into one these new 117 engines and see what's up with the variable valve timing in the 121.
Hi GixxerFoo. Love your videos! I'm from denmark, not the best to understand english. I have a Low Rider S 114cui. Witch camshaft will you reccomend me to buy? I wan'tgood chop to the idle? (I dont need more power, only sound) And maby its a stupid question; do I need 1 or 2 camshaft for this mod?
Thank you I appreciate it! If you're running the 114 M8 it's only one cam, so much cheaper than the twin cam bikes. Hard to keep the power down but a RedShift 468 makes a nice sound, power just kinda comes with the territory there. I do love the Low Rider S, that's one of my favorite bikes!
@@GixxerFoo Thank you mate! I will buy one of these then :D My brain still 'fucks me'... Is it really only ONE camshaft??! Yes, I have the 114cui 2 cylinder motor! My brain can't get that to work. :S :S :D
Got a '21 RKS and started off with the SE447. Pretty nice impact for a rather mild TQ cam. Noticed the bike is not nearly so pliable under 2k RPM. Jump on it too soon and it will ping a little. But once I am up around 2.25k RPM it spins up fast and strong to 4k. I installed S&S lifters and cuffs along with the SE cam. But once the warranty is up I'll probably give the Zipper 468 a try.
The term 'bolt in cam' is a cam that can be used as a direct replacement of a stock cam without changing/altering heads/valve size/springs/pushrods/etc. Having said that, to get the best out of a good cam, head porting makes that cam work to its full potential. By the way, a cam upgrade requires a few extra bits besides the actual cam, so you end up buying a 'kit' or hand-picking the components, including new lifters, adjustable pushrods (the OEM pushrods are removed by cutting them, so the heads don't have to be removed) and gaskets. Depending how much performance you gain, you might want to check with your Harley expert if you'd need to upgrade the clutch spring. A stronger clutch spring makes it harder to pull the clutch lever (annoying in city traffic if you're weak like me!) or spend extra for a S&S® Variable Pressure Plate which doesn't make the lever hard to pull. Some people like to upgrade the stock compensator also, but if you ride sensibly your stock compensator might be okay to keep (again, check with your local Harley guru). And don't forget the labour for the job, plus the final tune cost to make it all worthwhile. I hope I haven't 'blown your budget' ... the cost of the cams are just part of the whole upgrade. Oh, I nearly forgot ... you might end up spending more money on rear tire replacements, but that's just the cost of the performance upgrade.
@@Jonathan-L Way to much unnecessary information regarding the question. " Bolt in cam" is simply removing the original cam and installing (bolting in) the new cam without any other modification necessary.
I have a 107 to 114 stage III. Which S&S cam will deliver more in the same rev range? Am I looking at a 465, 475 or something else? Thanx for the input. Great vids and content :)
Thank you! S&S is a much better cam than the SE cams if that's what you're running with a the stage 3 kit. The 465 and 475 will produce about the same amount of torque, but you'll see a little more horsepower on the big end with the 475 as it runs out a little higher. Both cams perform about the same in the low and mid range. I'd say the 465 is going to be a bit stronger in the low and mid, but if you want more on the high end I would go with the 475.
Was going to go with either s/s 465 or 475, but ended up ordering Star 30/30 cam for my 107 Street bob, tech told me I should be able to get 115-117 hp and 128-130 torque. The dyno on it looks impressive.
I've got the S&S 475 in my 107 and it made 106 hp and 115 tq. Not bad considering I have a pretty short pipe and less than ideal compression for the cam.
Harley's torque cam puts down about the same peak power on top as their power cam. Down low it destroys the power cam, they did a really good job on it!
I have a STREET GLIDE (my 2023) ST-117, and I mounted this CAM W8-22XE, but my opinion, after having tried it, even with a meticulous tuning done by one of the best tuners we have here, is that this CAM is not the best choice for touring, because it opens too late (at around 2500 rpm) and compared to the stock CAM of the 117 (which already has a much better CAM than the 107 and 114) and is already full immediately from 1500 rpm and in terms of linearity (I mean "linearly tuning" the low rpm (from 1500 -2500) with the medium RPM (from 2500-3000) the WM8-22XE does not do a good job, compared to the stock CAM of the 117, the bike loses a lot of fluidity and linearity of the response... In terms of linearity of agreement between low rpm and medium rpm I encountered the same problem with red shift 468 and S&S 475. I believe that everyone is focusing on absolute performance, but few on maintaining a linear and fluid torque and power response, especially if you "get your hands" on an ST-117 motorcycle... So my personal opinion is the following: the performance of power and torque are not all ... For me, linearity of the entire response is even more important and the CAM WOOD WM8-22XE, from this point of view, is sincerely inferior to the stock CAM of the St-117... It would be nice to see a video of yours in which you address this problem (maintaining response linearity, a cam that tunes well in all RPMs)..
The lope is really just at idle, but you will notice a much healthier sound under throttle with a good cam. Cams are going to have a little different lope at idle, just depends on the lift and duration of the cam.
I have a 2021 Heritage 114 with a stage 1 upgrade and Rinehart slip on mufflers. I am satisfied with the performance, but do miss the old school "Potato Thumping" of my 2004 Heritage. Would a Stage 2 upgrade of the Cam provide that sound, or would more have to be done? If the Milwaukee 8 counter balancing had to be minimized, would it be detrimental to the engine?
Fantastic episode brother. Based on my experience with S&S, I will always choose them. Best overall performance, and they always consider both all-around #s, as well as longevity. In this case - won't trash your stock valvetrain, or at the worst, upgraded valve springs and maybe rockers.
The M8 engine is far more particular about having the right pipes. Much more so than the TC. There are more pipes on the market that hurt the performance of the M8 than increase it. Especially when you remove the baffles and inserts.
I went with Zipper’s 468 and all I can say is WoW. I went from stock to 101-HP and 118-Torque. It runs and sounds amazing for a bolt on cam with air intake and exhaust upgrades.
That really comes down to how hard you ride the bike and how it's taken care of. I've seen stock motors tore up and fail early from just being ragged on and no maintenance. I've also seen built motors run 100k just with good maintenance and not beating on them, all the time anyhow.
@@GixxerFoo I appreciate the info👍,your not the first to say this and its worries me,this is really making me to think better in to Not getting a stage 1 or 2 that I was seriouly concidering in to doing so...Bummer!
Every yr Harleys seem to get quieter. My older bikers sounded sick with slip ons. M8 2018. Vs My 2017 Twin Cam 2017 stock sounds better. Added Python slip ons now the bike sounds good but the 2002 FLSTC and the 2009 883 souned better. The 883 sportster sounded better beefier the the other bikes i have owned. I read this us do to admissions.. . to loud wtf ....jets and 18 wheelers do more damnage..
I fully agree, motorcycles are a very minute part of emissions and they should be left alone. Push mowers contribute to more emissions than motorcycles. EPA also regulates noise so it's forced Harley to quiet the mechanical noise of the motors down as well too.
01 88 evo run a 590 wood cam and s&s 10.2.1 pistons, e carb ..never had dino it will make 😉 .some say it to be big of cam! Big or not it still make u ear sing sweet betty.
They do, it's worth waiting the warranty out or voiding it all together instead of investing in a Screamin Eagle cam. SE cams makes decent power but nothing like these cams gain.
Hi. Thanks for this info.I've been wanting the S&S kit. I have a 2019 RKC/107 with a basic stage one and a programmable tuner. Your video here focused on the S&S 465. Is the 465 a better option than the 475 or 550 ? Thanks again for the info. Ride Safe.
I just purchased the 2022 street road glide special with the 114 motor. I dumped my 2020 road glide standard because I didn’t like the chrome and I wanted a little more power to toy with. I’m afraid to void my warranty but I want to make the idle chop like it is in your video. How do I achieve that without losing my warranty and what exhaust should I go with to get that bark I’m used to with the V-twin. I need help and I’m hoping you can help
To get that kind of sound you'd have to go with a after market cam, that would void you're factory warranty. You might get a bit more sound with a Screamin Eagle cam, you'll also need a full aftermarket exhaust which won't void your warranty if you use the Screamin Eagle street tuner.
Isn't EFI maping required when making these changes? Couple hundred bucks for a cam, then breather, then pipes, then a tuner and time on the dino, those huge HP gains, come with big cost. And risk.
Hi I'm a long time subscriber to your channel and was wondering if you know of a complete cam upgrade kit (that has everything; Cam plate, oil pump, push rods etc etc) for 103 twin cam. I'm looking for high power output without any head or valve train modification's. My bike has V&H short shots, K&N high flow air cleaner and a married Maximus tuner and tune installed any help and a great engine rumble :) will be greatly appreciated, Thanks PjB
Zippers, S&S and FuelMoto offer some complete kits with everything to do the job. They are tested and matched components so there is no guess work involved.
Warranty is up. Been mulling a cam swap. Probly S&S 475c or RS472 this winter. Once I find a decent tuning shop I will probly go with what they reccomend.
For creating a lopey sound? Not really. The Harley TQ cam (SE8-447) has little to no overlap due to EPA regulations. Aftermarket cam manufacturers don't really care about EPA regulations. They simply list them as track use only to get around that.
Only if you want to keep your warranty valid. Very little performance gain compared to the rest, and almost no difference in idle. Except for the warranty, I can't understand why anyone would go through all the work for almost no real gain. Look at the Woods 22XE.
Responding to questions about exhaust. No. I upgraded to a Full TAB performance exhaust header and mufflers with 2.5 inch baffles and 18MM wide band O2 sensors. In order to get the most out of my performance upgrades, I installed a Thundermax ECM with auto-tune. It’s like having an on-board dyno that tunes while I ride. Ride safe. Russ
