You along with Geoff Marshall are my go-to sites, your content is astonishing, and being a Londoner born in the mid-50s I really learn so much more than I could imagine. Great work Jago....long may it continue.
FYI: Adding to this thread in addition to my standalone comment, which might get lost within the many comments. Hope Jago pins my standalone comment so that people can add to my list! :) London-based creators I personally follow: Jago Hazzard Joolz Guides John Rogers Geoff Marshall RunderGround Motorists: Cycling Mikey, Silvio Diego, CycleGaz, Premises 187, Royal Jordanian, DrivenMad, LondonEats Social Experimentalist (Very subjectively Hilarious) Walking-/bus-based tour channels such as Wanderizm etc. Which other channels would you add the above? :)
In the 19th Century, cable-powered streetcars were very popular because they were the only practical alternative to either animal power or coal-fired steam locomotives on street railways. Chicago, IL and Minneapolis-St. Paul, MN are just two examples of almost flat cities that built relatively large cable-powered street railway networks. Incidentally, conversion to electricity usually required completely rebuilding the tracks, because electric streetcars were relatively heavy to the cable cars they replaced. In St. Paul, MN one cable line up a hill (Selby Avenue) was replaced by new electric line that used a special counterweight system to help the streetcars get up the hill. In 1907, a 1500 foot tunnel was opened, with the west portal opening in the middle of the street; the east portal of that tunnel still exists, with a strong fence to prevent access inside the bore. Incidentally, the old cable-railway up Selby Avenue climbed a 14 percent grade, or approximately 1 in 7 in British parlance. The new tunnel cut the grade in half. Today, diesel buses climb Selby without using any tunnel.
Pedant mode on. The surviving cable cars in San Francisco are 3ft 6in(42in or in civilized terms 1067mm). There were standard and broad gauge systems built around the country. San Francisco's Market Street Railway is an example. The grip was more like a clamp. Hallidie's original was a side grip. The cable was carried to the side. The gripman turned a wheel like device to close the grip on the cable to pull the car along. The current systems uses an Eppelsheimer bottom grip. The book "The Cable Car in America" by George Hilton, is probably the definitive book on the subject. It covers history and the technology, and gives individual thumbnail of all known grip style cable lines, with maps, worldwide. Pedant mode off(not really).😀
Cool comparison. When visiting San Francisco, it did make sense to get the week pass (well, 7 or 10 days), which did include the cable cars. Don't know if that's still the case. Getting on one or two stops up the line instead of at Powell reduced waiting time. I was in SF several times for conferences, and usually stayed in the marina district, close to a cable car stop, taking the cable car as my commute. They are still fun to ride for me, though the novelty did wear off a bit.
@@johanneswerner1140 Did you get chance to see the power house and museum at Washington and Mason? You can view the winding machinery(1980s rebuild) and see a vault under the street where the cables run to the respective lines.
Yes I did! That was really awesome, it made me appreciate the system even more. The engineering behind it is great. After visiting it you begin to understand some of the stuff you see on the cable car, the tracks, location of the stops, signalling, those things, and how the guys driving the contraption are working together. Riding every morning, same time, got me sort of registered as a regular with a team, "yeah, I saw the ticket yesterday and the day before... you still got it, right?"
Melbourne once had an extensive cable tram network before they electrified it in the early 20th century. There’s still bits and pieces left such as old cable/power houses.
There is a workhouse opposite archway tavern that became part of the hospital, but now I believe is vacant and may be turned into flats. It’s an amazing building, perhaps a video on that? I’d love to know more.
Actually the 35 tram route never did go up Highgate Hill. The route that went up the hill was route 11 which was replaced by trolleybuses in December 1939 by route 611. As a young lad I was often taken on a 611 trolleybus by my aunt up to Waterlow Park just before the top of the hill, continuing after the trolleybuses on that route were replaced by brand new Routemasters in 1960 on the replacement route 271. One of the quirky things about the route is that give or take a few yards at either end of the route, the 11/611/271 has run the same Highgate Village to Moorgate journey for over a century now - a claim matched by only a handful of other London bus routes! The 11 tram route was the last non Kingsway subway tram route operating in North London (a couple of East London routes lasted into 1940). It was a wholly conduit operated route and had been operated by the batch of non trolley pole fitted HR2s. Love the video - could we perhaps have more on individual tram / trolleybus / bus routes especially those that have a long pedigree like the 11/611/271. Another long lasting route that also operated past the Archway Tavern, and still does today, is the 43 bus route - on which I used to travel to school!
I never managed to ride on a London tram in service although I remember them rattling along on the Embankment. I rode on one at the East Anglia Transport Museum near Lowestoft.
The electric tram depot later on was used to store older trams during the War. It was still used for only operational purposes into the very early fifties; meanwhile, the trolleybuses that performed the route had extra braking systems.
To be fair, the continued operation of the cable cars in San Francisco has a lot more to do with them being a massive tourist attraction and an instantly recognizable symbol of the city than with how efficient they are as a public transportation system. (In fact, they're so popular with tourists that they are essentially worthless for practical commuting.)
@@TalesOfWar "Totally useless for any practical reasons" Other than making a significant net profit for the country even after running and maintenance costs.
@@mfx1 not taking a side on monarchism Vs republicanism. But the only reason the royal family can turn a profit is because they have a huge estate, the only reason they have a huge estate is because they are the royal family. Doesn't that strike you as strangely circular?
Trying to get up Highgate west hill in my old FX4 back in the eighties was a feat in itself. Full speed along Highgate road and if you was lucky and your passengers weren't too heavy you could reach the top!! No chance now since they put sleeping policemen on the hill. Happy, happy days
True story my father lived at the bottom at McDonalds road with his family and two uncles one of which was gold medal cyclist I have the medals he said to my father if you can get to the top of the hill with a very high gear cog on his bike he would give him a shilling a lot in the early 1940s and he just made it to get the money it is a very steep hill.
Belvoir Castle in Leicestershire is so far above the local village where their supplies came from that it had at one time a fairly primitive steam powered cable tramway to bring heavy carts of food etc up to the Castle the cart was pulled into the Castle and big wooden doors closed behind it
If you're doing more stuff on tramways, the Barking system may be worth a mention. It coasted across a Scherzer rolling lift bridge over Barking Creek on its way to Beckton gas works, with the conductor reconnecting the trolley pole on the other side. Maybe not enough to warrant a video all to itself, but possibly as a part of tramways in east London.
Barkings main system - from Barking Creek to Loxford Waters was so short that Barking UDC effectively gave up and let in the end Iiford UDC and East Ham (later LCC ) UDC run the route instead.
I'd love to see more videos of the history of London's trams. Those of us who care are quite proud we held onto our streetcars here in Toronto and we're finally adding more (as light rail transit). It amazes me how many large cities around the world were convinced to give up theirs for the bus.
I was in İzmir (Turkey) in the 80s, they had trolleybuses powered from overhead electric cables. Occasionally the pickup would slip off the cable, bus stops dead and driver had to pull a rope to reposition the pickup. Great fun to watch, especially when it happened on a busy junction!
The automotive and tyre industries were extremely powerful after WW2 in much of the capitalist "west". At least here in the UK there were also members of government in positions of power over transport who actually owned or were otherwise financially involved with companies that built roads. One such result of this kind of conflict of interest was the Beeching Cuts in the 60's where a huge amount of the British rail network was scrapped and many large roads and motorways were built.
@@stepheneyles2198 . I can remember as a child seeing this happen at Hammersmith Broadway in the last days of the trolley buses. Just up from the old Butterwick Bus stop area. A really foggy/smoggy dark evening. The trolley’s connector came off the power line and a bus inspector was there in seconds with a pole to hook it back on. Brought the area to a complete standstill!
Great video as always, Jago! Melbourne, Australia, had cable trams on the "Bourke St lines" until 1940 when it was replaced by double deck buses that were a dismal failure. By 1955 it was back to trams - this time lovely new W6 class electric trams! 💖
> "Well, I hope you found this video suitably gripping..." I am going to say it: that was your best pun yet!! It certainly made me laugh. Thank you for the episode, and take care.
And that reminds me of Liverpools on cable rail system. Yes, oddly enough it was that wee RainHill line to Manchester, which on the Liverpool end terminated at Edge Hill. Apparently Stehenson's Locomotives could'nt pull up the wee incline to edgehill, so they built a cable system to pull the trains into the original Edge Hill Station. After a couple of years they decided to build Liverpool Lime street Station instead, and Edge Hill went the same way as Highgate Tram Service.
I'm not griping, when I ask for more gripping "Tales from the Tram" please! I spent a lot of time in SF riding the cable cars back in the 1970's as a teenager. That was when the cable cars were still treated as a regular part of the city's public transportation network and with a 25-cent fare (50 cents r/t) one also got a timed transfer. This got me downtown on a PCC streetcar AND a ride out to Fisherman's Wharf on a cable car, with the added bonus of passing the cable car barn and museum along the way. I thought, and still do, that it was quite the bargain for a young, poor fan of steel wheels!
Fascinating. I had not heard of that cable tram before, even though I have travelled through Highgate many times in the past. A video or two (or more) on London's extensive tram systems would be most welcome. Perhaps the trolleybus systems might be worth looking at also, as they spread out quite far.
When you said “owed it’s origin to the USA”, I was waiting to hear the name Yerkes! Glad it was someone else, for many reasons; not the least of which was ‘no drink in front of me’
I did enjoy traveling on the San Francisco cable car, but seems more of a tourist trap than a useful transport system. Great fun though if you are based along it. I also liked collection of "trams of the world" running on the flatter parts. In fact I enjoyed traveling around San Fransisco by public transport altogether. The ferry boats across the Bay were fun too, see what I mean?
The SF cable cars are indeed just a (major) tourist attraction these days. So many tourists that they are pretty much useless for real transportation. But they stopped being comparatively useful back in the 1950s, and would have all been removed by the end of the 1960s if lots of residents hadn't objected to losing the "local color". That doesn't necessarily mean that cable cars are worthless in all cases, just that 1890s technology cars are not comparatively to other methods practical in SF any more. A number of visiting European journalists have mentioned over the years that SF is the most 'European feeling" city in the US, with it's public infrastructure. (Though most of those mentions were from before that infrastructure containing large quantities of vagabonds.)
See... When I use to drive the 271 many years back (still London buses still using Metrobuses) I would never have realised that cable cars ran the stretch of Highgate that I was driving then... Would have been good to know it back then, but alas no Internet and no Jago.... Well horn maybe but no you tube channel.... Another fine history lesson sir to which I am truly grateful... Looking forward to next lesson.
Yes please, more videos on the trams of London...and the Trolleybuses - which I was fortunate enough to travel on. Longish and very powerful vehicles !
Los Angeles also had several cable car lines, whose time was brief. They were replaced by electric trams in short order, and Los Angeles had the largest system in the world. Until it was torn out.
Your videos continue to help combat my insomnia. Another interesting and well executed video. ✨ I continue to find it surprising that train and tram ideas were taken from the US to the UK, rather than the reverse, as I had always thought it to be.
Great video, thank you Jago. I live in Edinburgh and there were many cable tramways here until the late 1950’s and as Edinburgh being one of the UK’s hilliest cities, they were perfect for the northern part of the city which was shaped by the ‘supervolcano’ that encompassed much of the Lothians.
Forgive me but I believe that the cable-operated routes in Edinburgh lasted until 1923 when they were eventually succeeded by electric tramcars, the final electric tram in Edinburgh operated in November 1956 on THAT system. Obviously there have been developments since. The cable tramways must have been a fascinating experience.
@@stanley3647 Yes, I have ridden that one. Highly enjoyable. I wonder what it must have been like to have travelled on a street tramways with its frequent stops. The brakeman (or woman) must have developed a skillful knack of "grabbing" and releasing the cable without knocking standing passengers off their feet!
@@aliksahnda thank you, I am fascinated by the tramways that used to run on Edinburgh’s streets, there are still the remains of (I believe) the old cable tramway system in parts of Edinburgh.
@@josephcoane5004 Yes, I have just seen a picture of old cable track in Waterloo Place which can be seen to this day. I should imagine that passengers used to the solid cable-hauled network where the trams were actually attached to something must have felt a little vulnerable when the electric trams were introduced especially when climbing gradients in the New Town. Also I am not sure whether cable trams operated up The Mound but tram drivers were given a little extra in their paypacket if their duties involved driving a double decker tram up the tortuous curves and gradients of THAT route!
I’d love to see more about London’s trams. My great grandfather was tram superintendent in Edmonton, and I know nothing about those trams. Incidentally my grandfather was head of timetabling at London Transport - 55 Broadway.
Jago, My grandad was driving on the trolley buses back 8n the day and that's how he met my grandmother. I know very little about these old vehicles, other than he used to power drift them pulling out of large junctions in the wet, given the instant torque from the electric motor. I also know very little about the trolley buses of London. Would you be likely to produce a video on these at any point?
Would be great to see some videoes on Londons trams, shame that a lot of the original tramways are not being rebuild as it would help a lot with reducing pollution
This reminds me of a flop which happened recently. The Maglev link at Birmingham Airport. Was unreliable and replaced by I believe a cable tram! You could make a video about it!
The maglev was fairly reliable for what was basically a one-off testbed, and the first real-life maglev installation in the world. It's similar to the Highgate Hill cable tram in that respect as it was intended more to be a showcase of what was technically possible than as a real method of transport. The problem was that as a one-off example of a new technology it suffered from the need for specialist manufacture of parts (no popping down to Halfords for brake pads!) and, perhaps more significantly, from electrical obsolescence as electrics and computers advanced rapidly in the early 90s, meaning it became expensive to keep running, which meant it became even more unreliable which in turn meant it became even more expensive and so on. At the same it also fell foul of the corporatisation of the airport (changing from what was effectively a department of the city council to a council-owned business which needed to keep its head above water), all of which meant it was pretty easy for the airport to go "Nah, not paying for that" and close it down while the councils were sidetracked and concentrating on selling 50% of the airport under pressure from central government. My understanding is that the airport were quite happy to replace it permanently with a bus link and there the whole saga would have ended were it not for the fact that the airport is still 48% owned by the local councils who _weren't_ happy and so after years of arguing the track was repurposed for the current cable-hauled people-mover.
@@atraindriver Thanks, great reply. I used to drop someone off an International in the early 1990s. You could always tell when it was working as it caused bad interference on the car radio. Towards the end it was hardly in use. Interesting comments about the bus link. If I had a small bag it was easier and quicker to walk between the two.
@@atraindriver Irrespective of the reasons, what was billed as the most advanced passenger-carrying system in the world was replaced by one of the most obsolete ones. When the cable-car is declared 'life-expired', I expect to see the return of the horse.
Awesome video. Would love to see an episode on Acton Tram Depot. Used to work in Acton when the depot was still there until it was gentrified and turned into flats and a gym.
The Great Orme Tramway in Llandudno, is a Cable tram, although it is also said to be a Funicular tramway. The Halfway Station pulls one tram to halfway station, and pushes the other one down. Then you change for the other tram, and are pulled up by the winch at Halfway Station, which pulls the other one down.
When trolleybuses replaced the trams, those used on the Highgate Hill and Archway Hill routes were fitted with special "roll back" brakes to prevent runaways. I don't know if the trolleys that used Brixton Hill were similarly fitted.
I find it astonishing that cable trams were not a success in London. We had a netwotk of hundreds of miles of them in my home town (Melbourne). All of them had the two car dummy and trailer setup and the last one only closed in 1940. Most were replaced with electric trams which still operate today.
Thank you I find your videos watching them from Wiesbaden in Germany, but I went to Archway School on Scholefield Rd, N19 in the 1970's, now gone amalgamated with Tollington Park School, but we had an annex on Highgate Hill opposite the Dick Whittington statue and spent our lunchtimes running around Highgate Village, the Cemetery, seeing what colour paint had been thrown on the Karl Marx head! Those wete heady days in the People's Republic of Islington, now gone and gentrified. But your ideas take me back way back when, so thank you! 👍🏼🙏🏼😃
Yep, more tram shiz please Jago! I knew there were once trams up the hill to Archway but had no idea of the significance of this section of the tram network being an early cable-grabber until your video (nor the Brixton one: I must have missed that one mate 🤷🏻♂️) and it’s interesting how it couldn’t be made to work here. Maybe something to do with the relative straightforwardness of Sam Fran’s street plan whereas Highgate is a bit wiggly (another technical term) in comparison, which I can only imagine complicated things. 🤔 It’s so Victorian that they introduced emergency brakes not as a forethought, not even following an incident, but as standard only after several incidents of run aways😳🤪 If you do decide to do some tram themed ideas, could I suggest something about the depot in Charlton. You can still easily make out the road and roughly where the depot perimeter was, plus there’s a great model layout (I think it’s O Gauge) that did the rounds called “Cheerio Charlton”. Funnily enough, I saw the layout at an exhibition and recognised the section of road straight away, even telling my missus…and she patiently pointed at the board above the stand with the name on it and just sighed 🙄 Fantastic stuff mate, long may you continue 🎩🍀👍🥂
Great find of the 1884 B&W photo at @04:19 of the tram at the top of Highgate Village, heading towards the Angel Pub. Nowadays, apart from the addition of cars and lack of trams, it still looks pretty much the same, 138 years later. It's hardly changed!
There is a funny thing about this route. The 35 tram continued until the Kingsway Tunnel was closed in the spring of 1952 but after the war it terminated at Archway Tavern and did not go to the top of the hill. The last trams in London ran on 5 July 1952. They had the HR2 class of tram for hilly routes. It was replaced by the 172 bus. The 33 tram to Manor House stopped on the same day as the 35. The tram depot was in Pemberton Gardens. Another curiosity was the tram route from Pemberton Gardens via Fortess Road, Kentish Town Road and Prince of Wales's Road to the Cressey Road depot off Fleet Road which remained serviceable long after the war. The depot became a British Road Services depot and retained its tram rails for many years.
Actually the 35 never did go up Highgate Hill. The route that went up the hill was route 11 which was replaced by trolleybuses in December 1939 by route 611. As a young lad I was often taken on a 611 trolleybus by my aunt up to Waterlow Park just before the top of the hill, continuing after the trolleybuses on that route were replaced by brand new Routemasters in 1960 on the replacement route 271. One of the quirky things about the route is that give or take a few yards at either end of the route, the 11/611/271 has run the same Highgate Village to Moorgate journey for over a century now - a claim matched by only a handful of other London bus routes!
@@paulrichardson3965 I remember the 611. The other Kingsway tunnel routes were the 31 and 33. I. think one of them became bus 171 to Newington Green and Manor House. Scrapping the London trams showed a lack of foresight. The RM bus could have been the basis of a modern London tram.
The engine house was located on the right hand side of Highgate Hill in a cul-de-sac, still there, called Townsend Yard. The chimney survived into the late 50's and could be seen from my bedroom window, nearby.
As you mention, cable railways were in operation on industrial railways well before steam, so the technology was hardly a new one. Even some very early passenger railways had them, such as the six miles long Canterbury and Whitstable Railway, opened in 1830. That line had two cables, as well as relying on horse traction for short distances and an asthmatic steam locomotive called Invicta, that only worked on the flattish bit at the Whitstable end. It couldn't even manage that, so was replaced partly by a third cable. Within a few decades the cable was ripped up and the whole thing was powered by more advanced cut-down locomotives due to a low tunnel.
San Francisco's cable cars are operated by the San Francisco Municipal Railway. Yes, the agency is still called that, even though most of its service is now buses (though it does also have seven light rail lines and two historic streetcar lines, which include an open-air tram from Blackpool among other international antiques).
From the fare I was reminded of Anita Harris' song "I'm going on a Tuppenny Bus ride" . Also that I heard that the Dog Kennel Hill trams had a two track in each direction system so that if one ran away it wouldn't smash into the one behind. I did also read that they found if one did run away it would topple over when it hit the junction of the tracks at the lower end!!!
Another cracking little video Jago & one that brought back many memories. I lived on the edge of Highgate N6 when I first came to London back in 1977, so am very familiar with all the modern-day locations in this video. I particularly liked the one at 6:18 - if I'm not mistaken that was Priory Gardens that I used to walk along every work day to & from the Tube station. Happy days ! 😎
From your LeviNZ correspondent: In the late 1880s or so, Dunedin had its famous Rattray St__Belgrave Cres--Kaikorai Valley cable cars....i was just too young to remember them while they were still running... the powerhouse was in K Valley, at the start of a fiercely steep gradient up Falcon St to the crest of Highgate ..:-)..where the only flat piece was large enough for the No 11 trolley bus ( "my" one ) to turn round. Anyway.... the whole length was at a guess 2.5km but perfect for Dunedin's hills. Halfway up Rattray St, by St Josephs Cathedral was a turn that must have been 40* anyway...apparently it was the first such turn on a cable system in the world. >>Just as impressive and rivalling the San F lines as I saw, was the High St/Maryhill cable car that went 2km at a guess in 3 stages that looked like steps. It was closed in 1957... the year I Do remember going on it. It would have been a fantastic tourist drawcard nowadays...but financial risk and foresight was passed by..again.. So NZ has only the steep but fairly short ( 5 mins )Kelburn cable car, from the centre of Wellington CBD to Kelburn above the university. It is very busy,..not cheap... and a pull for tourists.Saves a really strenuous walk up the steep slope.
Another fascinating and informed video in your inimitable wry style - keep them coming please. Cable traction, as you said is not new. You are totally familiar (of that I am certain) with Geoff Marshall's first rate video on the Glasgow Subway (sic) which includes a section on the early days when it was a cable hauled system. To Boot, part of the Edinburgh tramway system was cable hauled at one time. A remnant of line, with the conduit cowers in Princes Street to this day - video photo on Wikipedia article on Edinburgh Corporation Tramways....
Hooray! Trams at last! A RU-vid video about London transport during the Blitz in 1940 (since removed for some reason) mentions London having a lot of trams in 1940 but didn't show a single one. Trams were going "out of fashion" then, to culminate in the unwise decision to close the system in 1952. Instead, they showed numerous Tube and Underground stock sets, and buses which included some quite ancient ones which definitely predated the E3 and HR trams!
Sounds like London used to have trams and trolley-buses in the past. As South London has the Croydon Tramlink. And East London has the Docklands Light Railway and Emirates Air-Line cable car. Maybe North London and West London could do with having trams or a light rail in the near future.
4:24 All the buildings in this photograph survive to this day and though rebuilt in 1930, the Angel Inn, the pub in the background, is also still trading.
Of course, cable haulage was what the Glasgow Subway opened with in December 1896, only progressively converting to electric traction in stages between 1933 & 1935. The archaic method of lighting the train interiors (via two rails mounted on the walls and pickup shoes on the side of the cars) was retained after electification was completed in 1935, right up until the system's closure for complete refurbishment in May 1977.
We had a cable car up Leith Walk in Edinburgh, until 1923 - the cable wheels were rediscovered last year. Not sure what the gradient's there exactly, but it's a chore on a bike :)
I did a show at the Gatehouse. Pie & Priestley - Celebrating the writer J.B.Priestley and a meat & potato pie that defied Hitler. Priestley lived around the corner.
See Dogkennel hill cable tram in Camberwell. My dad went to work on it. The car coming down pulled the car going up. The central island which held the cable is still there.
