You can grind the bosses off on many lower manifolds without punching through but some do have enough vertical core shift to where it is a problem. If you have one of those you can source a different one with better core alignment or you can just leave a small bit of the boss inside the runner to avoid punching through.
You are the 2GR-FE yoda sir. Love your knowledge and willingnes to share. Saving up for a 2GR-FE swap my self. My wet dream is using a rav4 as a donor and converting my AZT250 Avensis to basically a V6 Caldina. Ever since my 88 camry alltrac with a 3vzfe got stolen 10 years ago i've always dreamt of something similar. My left leg has more titanium and carbonfibre than meat and bone so the auto from the rav seems a good option.
oh yes This is probably the best N/A Toyota engine .... The fact that lotus super charged it and got 400 hp and uses it says a lot but these engines are excellent
This makes me so happy. I love my 05 avalon with the 2gr fe, it's got 180k miles and runs like new still. everything works and it's got a lot of power. it's the best car I've had yet ♥
@グルグ VQs have no issues with many going over 400km with normal service intervals and Sascha at OnPoint Dyno has achieved 600hp ate with a 4.2L. There are plenty of ebay turbo boosted vq35s with 400hp atw. The VQ is a lighter engine as well which is where the Gr should at least get some fibre composite rocker covers, inlet manifolds and a unitary exhaust design like the latest lightweight v6 engines from Ford, Chev, Honda and Dodge. I like the GR but prefer the AR L4 all the way and Nissan QR 2.5L can only achieve 240hp max all motor.
@@ArcYT a year later! What’s your mileage? I’m inching up to 200K now.. only issue I had was engine cool line burst but that was a known issue Toyota didn’t cover
@@FrankensteinMotorworkscertainly it sounds like one of the best production v6 I've ever heard. Most other manufacturers sound like crap in comparison.
I have a 2gr-fks powered Tacoma and am trying to get as close to 300 as I can. I remember reading your website several years ago and am just now finding your RU-vid channel. I appreciate the R&D and great information.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks I would like to see some technical videos about 2gr-fks tuning. I am a tech and have experience tuning. I started working with my truck a little over a year ago. I have found that the power to be gained is in the cam angles and ignition timing. I started with the intake side and built a good board that runs great then I worked on the exhaust up higher in the rpms and found what it liked there. A few months ago I revisited my cam work and began to work more in the lower rpm and mid range loads on the exhaust side. I have found diesel like lug ability in that 1200-1600 rpm cruise and off idle torque to 3500 it never had before. I will be interested to see what you learn after you get your 2gr-fks running.
@@tech1302 I've considered it a few times but actually making a video how to tune is rather complicated. I may do one eventually but it isn't on the schedule right now. I also do not have a 2GR-FKS to play with.
If you are OCD like me and try to get the areas being removed as low and smooth as the rest of the port its easy to break through to where the injector seal sits. So just be mindful of this when porting.
even if you break through a little bit. it's a square rubber o-ring on the other side and it'll seal just fine. but there was quite a bit of thickness left there so i wonder if your casting had a badly centered core
Yeah, having access to a dyno for back to back stuff like this on the same day without even unstrapping the car from the dyno makes it really nice. I'm really thankful Ty at TCS lets me use his dyno for this stuff.
That's a very interesting result. Part of me wonders if a billet lower-intake-manifold replacement could do anything better, if one were willing to undertake the process and develop a profile for the runners, rather than modifying an OE unit.
Yeah, a few people mentioned they would have wanted to hear more engine noises in the last videos so i left these ones without speeding anything up. I do enjoy the sound of this engine :)
It begs the question, what would porting the entire lower intake manifold produce? Could another 5, 10 HP be found if we didn't go hog wild on it as I realize at some point, it'll become too large and lower air velocity and HP, but it appears we aren't there yet as just removing one restriction (and turbulent area) picked up an easy 5hp.
I agree, it seems like there's likely some more power there to be had with additional work. Going beyond this would likely benefit from also porting the head and then quickly you're talking about taking a motor apart.
Did you all get additional data? It appears the lower intake at the upper and lower intake junction have a very large cross section, so it may not be a restriction. But getting the bosses out helped, perhaps because it was obscuring the intake port on the head?
Random searching lead me here (planning on the 2gr swap into gen 4 camry) This mod reminds me of the ypipe mod on the 1mz. Replace the factory y with a more flow efficient one and gain like 10whp as a min
Update. The 2GR-FSE intake is different. You can not port the FSE intake that same way as the FE. The FSE fuel injectors are positioned differently. If you were to remove the same material on the FSE you would end up cutting a hole in the the intake.
There have been some people on ClubLexus and RU-vid do a minor gasket-match port on the lower intake manifold and the upper plenum on the FSE and gotten pretty solid results around ~10 whp.
This change has actually been confirmed by other people on different dynos. Trimming those bosses seems to reliably be good for a couple horsepower. But if you want to look at the temperature make sure you also look at the pressure and humidity. The decreased humidity on the hotter run makes up for the extra heat. But at the end of the day it's hard to get a perfect test like this back to back without significantly more expensive equipment. Environmental conditions are displayed on the graph so you can make your own decision.
The stock ECU can be tuned, this power shown is with the tuned MR2 swap ECU that i sell. Unfortunately the way these ECUs work you have to figure out each tune separately so just because i have put in the work to tune a few of these ECUs does not mean that i can tune most of the ECUs out there. But thankfully, the stock ECU really isn't holding back horsepower. You have to add a lot more air into the engine before you're far enough outside the expected part of the maps that tuning it can add power. we were getting to about 280whp (roughly 320hp or 50hp over stock) before the tuning started making any significant difference.
Looks like a carbide burr for the main material removal. You could do a similar job with the sanding cylinder from a rotary tool like a dremel. The second tool was a funky little sanding belt tool. you could use just sandpaper if you wanted to work out your fingers. I've also seen people polish the insides of these intakes with wire wheels. If you're going to do this, you nmay as well polish the entire inner surface area. The smoother it is, the smaller the boundary layer of turbulent air.
The 2GR-FE heads are actually pretty nice castings. I'm sure there's room for another couple horses here and there but we won't know until someone tries it.
I wish u did content with the 3mz bc I currently have a highlander with 3mz that gets to 100 pretty decent. Not saying it’s fast by any means but u would be surprised that it pulls.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks Ik that this is late n all but have u considered switching the manifold upper and lower one from the 1gr. Considering that it is bigger than the 2gr and on top of that u can port it as well
@@fmgamer6248 i played with this idea over a decade ago. they don't actually align. It would be possible to make a spacer/adapter but that would make the runners even longer and the runners are already a bit longer than they really should be for the power we are now pulling from these.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks ah goths then would it be possible to port the 3mz bc when I look at them it rarely looks like it doesn’t need to be ported except for those nudges that the bolt is supposed to go and on top of that the upper manifold has those 4 passage ways instead of one big circle one.
@@fmgamer6248 Unfortunately i have zero experience with the 3MZ so i really can't speak to it but i can say that not all bumps will be causing power loss. Air moves in very mysterious ways and this kind of thing really needs to be checked on the dyno to make sure you aren't hurting power instead of helping.
The obvious answer here is to build a 2GR SW20 and a 2AR ZZW30 :) but honestly they both have their strengths. What kind of SW20 are you looking to build? what will you use it for?
Did you know what 2gr heads flow? I have a number for 1mz/3mz at 264cfm@.450" lift. It was from an old motor trend article where they ported the heads to 301cfm@.450". The stock valves are 34mm/27mm. I have to imagine 2gr flow rates are outstanding in comparison.
Love seeing the progress! Will we be seeing more Project Widowmaker content in the near future? I'd love to do the swap but looking for a manual transmission is quite the challenge.
I was waiting on the new headers to continue the widowmaker. Right now TCS Motorsports has the pre-production samples in order to be able to make a y-pipe but when i get them back i will likely make a new Widowmaker episode.
The 2GR-FSE is a completely incompatible engine. The 2GR-FSE is intended for longitudinal mounting so the bellhousing does not match and even if an adapter was made there would be no space for the right side axle shaft. Also, the 2GR-FSE has a slightly higher compression ratio which is helping the power but most of the additional power just comes from having an exhaust that isn't as blocked up so the difference isn't nearly as large as it would appear on paper.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks will the engine head from the 2gr fse with its harness and ecu work on the 2gr Fe Block so you can get the best of the 2 engines? I'm working now on modifying a 2gr fse lexus 350 and your videos have alot of value. Thank you
@@supra320hp they both use the same head gasket part number so they would likely interchange but there's no additional power in he head. the only additional power is in the extra compression from the pistons. Also, the FSE heads on an FE block would make it so the direct injectors would not be able to spray properly.
are your gaskets special order/? i dont see any available on amazon, was doing just my knock sensors but now I came across your video and I seem to be doing more research
The 1GR-FE is an oddball. it has 72mm main journals and the 2gr-fe has 61mm main journals. There are many other differences but this is enough to see that the crank would not swap right over.
There's a minimum thickness when making a casting for it to pour reliably and the other side has the injector o-ring right there. Since they were able to meet their performance goals without the extra machining steps they did not bother to remove the extra material.
Are you thinking about providing 2AR-FE or AZ motor mounts for front longitudinal rwd? Specifically this would be a 74 Celica but we use a lot of modified ae86 parts in our cars.
There are no current plans for any longitudinal bits from Frankenstein Motorworks. That may change in the future but there's just nothing on the schedule right now.
I actually talk about this in the header video ( ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-m8QCUquHCLk.html ) But TCS motorsports will be releasing something soon and Alex and I will be working on an other solution that will be released at a later date.
Marc, please share what bits you’re using to mill the aluminum out. I have an aluminum intake that I need to bore out to 2” while port matching the tb that’s going on it. Yeah, not a 2GR 🤣
It's just a standard carbide burr kit like this one: amzn.to/3FRNI5U There's also longer ones if you need the extra reach: amzn.to/3BZgKhG Note the steel carbide burrs work on aluminum for quick work here and there but they will pack up with extended use. The finger sander there is a combination of this tool: amzn.to/3peTN6L with this sander www.harborfreight.com/38-in-belt-air-sander-60627.html and this kit: www.ebay.com/itm/274409456284 (note the amazon links are affiliate links and i do make a couple pennies if you buy through there but feel free to just use the links to get the details instead)
As far as i know the camry 2GR will have an engine driven power steering pump. You would have to convert this to an electric power steering pump before the headers would fit.
can i find the measurements for the 2arfe and 2grfe somewhere. i am looking for the measurements how far from where the gearbox bolts to the engine to the outside of the crank pulley. i am wondering if i can swap out my 1azfe awd rav4 engine for either 2arfe or 2grfe
the 2AR is almost exactly the same size in every dimension as the 2AZ except for the height. it is about 2-3" taller. the 2GR is a tiny bit shorter from the bellhousing to the balancer but obviously much wider.
what about fuel consumption, more horsepower = more fuel consumption ? can any mechanic do this ? how much should i sand from the metal ?? is it safe ? any side effects ?
Yes, in theory this would negatively affect fuel economy but this is very marginal. This is something anyone can do but you'll probably struggle to find someone that is willing to do it. This is really more of a DIY thing. The risk is very low as long as you don't drop anything in the intake while the motor is open and you fully clean all the parts so your motor does not ingest metal dust. I just brought the surface down to level with the runner.
309whp is the highest number i've ever seen on a naturally aspirated 2GR without any internal work. I've also heard of a 400whp 2GR existing but it has a ton of internal work.
We get to 300whp by using the Frankenstein Motorworks headers, the TCS y-pipe with the Berk tail section along with a tune and the Frankenstein motorworks MAF pipe and a 6" filter.
What will I need tools wise in order to be able to take out those notches? Will it do anything to the injectors? I have a 07 ES350 with a muffler delete and 2nd cat delete
honestly just a dremel with some sanding drums would work fine. You could even do it with a hand file and some patience. This will not affect the injectors.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks thank you very much, I don’t have much tools but I’ll work with what I have, I just grabbed a extra lower intake manifold from the junkyard just now to do this
so is this the same 2gr that is in the 2014 camry? they are suppised to have 268 hp and your up to 301. is that the only mod other than intake and exhaust?
It's actually a bigger difference than that, it's rated to 268 at the crankshaft and we're getting about 300 to the ground so sneaking up on 80hp over factory. Surprisingly these motors just love making good power this is with stock internals except for the lower intake mentioned in this video. The stock exhaust on these motors are very flow restricted.
@@danclara1 it's not so much that it's conservative, it's that the motor is really damn loud at the top end so they need to choke it down to make it pass regulations and to make it sound like it belongs in a Camry. They can't release a camry that sounds like this: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-urZv8hDTbFo.html
the other side is where the injector lower seals are and there's a minimum thickness required for a casting to be successful and Toyota decided it wasn't worth the machining time to remove them.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks Many thanks. I have a 2010 Vellfire with this engine, and any easy way to get a little more power has got to be worth pursuing.
Unfortunately i do not know. I would not expect a significant gain because the biggest restriction is the stock y-pipe. without fixing that i don't think you would add much power.
I want to turn a Lexus ES350 F sport into an ESF. Port job + forged internals + Stage 1 cams + 2 low inertia turbos + air to water intercooler will make escaping road ragers a breeze.
The stock ECU is very tolerant to modifications. Before i started tuning these we were already making 275-280whp just by giving the engine more airflow. The biggest airflow restrictor on the stock 2GRs is the y-pipe.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks I just noticed this comment. Is it the. y-pipe or the OE pre-cats in the exhaust manifold? I'm Finally doing exhaust work on the evora now that the SCCA will let me.
@@donoursizemore1030 honestly the cats in the manifolds really don't seem to take much power at all. it's just the y-pipe. not sure what the evora's y-pipe looks like though.
269 to the flywheel from the factory, this is 300 to the wheels or about 350 to the flywheel. The modification in this video is the only internal change. On the outside of the motor this has a very free flowing exhaust, a free flowing intake with my MAF pipe and an ECU tune that i spent a bunch of time on.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks I got a intake and a straight pipe to performance magnaflow mufflers. U telling me if I get it tuned I’ll get around 290 or so?
@@tritthemit4168 A lot of the aftermarket intakes actually rob power because they have to be designed to work with the stock ECU tune. My tune and MAF pipe are designed together and it makes a huge difference. These parts are not equivalent at all. For what it's worth, the ECU tune got the last 15whp or so. the stock ECU tune is actually quite good if you let it breathe.
Absolutely, you can turbo anything. But the 2GR has bee successfully turbo'd already. If you look up ATS they've gotten to over 600whp in an MR2 with a 2GR on stock internals.
@@Jesus-hc9mz In either case it's a fully custom job. With the camry you've got the extra concern about keeping the automatic transmission happy but otherwise it's generally the same kind of thing.
@@FrankensteinMotorworks Before I heard of these 600whp stock internals I was under the impression you'll have issues around 400 to 425 engine hp due to the rods. The information i had had the rods being the same as 1mz/3mz
This is over 300wheel hp. The current sienna is rated at 245crank hp and the one that had the 3.5L V6 was rated at 269crank hp. the difference between crank and wheel is about 15% losses. This is actually about a 75hp gain over the sienna engine.
You're right. reviewing the raw video it looks like it's closer to 30 minutes with the R&R but i wasn't exactly rushing. and we got to 300whp on this 1-5hp at a time. There's only so much that can be done without modifying internals at this point.
Marc, you are doing a great job with an these videos and actually getting data and documenting exec if some of it is just backing up what Alex has done. It's nice to see progress. Lots left in these engines and you keep finding more. Keep up the great work.
@@nickbianco2750 Lol, you couldn't have made that a stand alone comment? You had to pipe in as an attempt to weaken the point? What's wrong with you? He acknowledged and explained. Not good enough for you?
@@20alphabet your comment was weak. Calling it clickbait when everything is great info and the only misinformation was an approximate time for the work which I'm sure he was talking about the grinding and not the r&r. The title didn't say get 300hp in 10mins which would be clickbait. It's an informative video with one small mislead about the time which he addressed. Hate all you want, Marc is doing all of us who have 2gr swaps a favor.
Yeah... I was wonder Why 2 people would thumbs down this video??? There's always someone... Yeah agreed definitely not clickbait and yes an incorrect time. But I would've never imagined that someone would have taken that comment literally.
