i think its a huge scam they take rake when you take a pot down preflop they even rake the damn blinds like tf, just play cashgame live when rake rules actually make sense
nah it's certainly beatable. The rake at microstakes is super high is not new news. It's really weird to me that there are people calculate bb/100 BEFORE rake, we always calculate it after rake. In my community at micro we aim for around 3-6bb/100 AFTER RAKE with good volume, crusher might got more than 8bb/100 (even though i only saw 1 at 10bb/100 many years ago) . So yeah, many people beat the microstakes. The field is soft so it make up for the rake in a way. Obviously for poker player, we always aim to play at mid stakes or above because of the rake system, so try to make your way out of microstakes as fast as possible. For myself, I got a ~7.8bb/100 AFTER RAKE winrate in 2020 from nl2 to nl10, and grind my way out of it and currently playing at nl200. So yeah, it's the path that everyone who has small bankroll at the beginning need to go.
Is this Ontario or global pool? In Ontario it’s cash back not rake back, even in 200nl still paying almost 10bb/100 you need to be absolutely smashing the games by like 18-25bb/100 for it to be worth it
that's exactly how the global numbers look like?! even worse i think. don't forget the jackpot fee, which you will likely never see back in your life. you're raked 3bb/hand if you're playing a pot worth >30bb, and that jp fee is not included in the rakeback calculations, which are fake of course, because of their opaque pvi system. the sample sizes he's showing are too small. i've been a pro for 15 years, i've had 100 buyins under ev on pokerstars back in the day at 2/4 nlhe over a sample of less than 200k hands. variance is brutal. but he doesn't need to show graphs, it's obvious that it's almost impossible to beat GG, if you're not obliterating your competition. the stakes you're used to beating on other sites, you won't be able to beat on GG. you have to drop down at least one limit, so you're far ahead of your competition skill wise.
Does Ontario have BBJ ? If so, that also contibutes to rake, but it's supposed to be a wash in the long run. Also, besides the leaderboard, we should take the gg cares and flip outs into rakeback.
So what do you recommend, that point to make a lot of rake minding the gg starts tomorrow with 50% rakeback promo, i think Aof generate it faster, what do you mean
Not including rake in the graph is such a sleazy, scammy move. But I guess you don't become the biggest poker site in the world by playing by the rules.
I think you have to keep in mind about the daily leaderboards, especially the higher stakes, some pay out 270-700$ daily for first place. this might be worth it to grind it out
My BR would show that im winning and consistently moving up, its just they take so much its almost not worth it. Especially with PVI choosing who gets raked more, high volume players such as myself get demolished by the rake system. Around my 40K hand mark I also believe my PVI reached the ultimate low thus there was a rapid change in my overall w/r even though my BR continued to climb as apposed to the HM3 graph.
Hi, thanks, this is true also in S&G. I have played spin&gold in GG, Im an absolute winner in the microstakes, i have one of the best winrates, and the total amount of money made is 0 (zero). Also the RB has change so i quit the room
What’s your username? I play 10nl, winning at 9bb/100 debating if it’s even worth it to continue and move up stakes? You are winning more than me and I want to gauge compared to you.
I believe the way to approach micros, is purely in terms of practise, maybe for a live game where making some $ is actually possible, or to become so good (and still losing after rake) that you can move up where the rake is not as punishing. Still it's disgusting and a bitter pill to swallow when every single $ you made playing poker went to the site. I know the feeling and share your outrage.
All the pros leave the site and the site will die. The rake is unbeatable and even if you do beat the games for 10bb, the only way to beat the game. The variance on that site just seems rigged. I have played poker for 25 years and never seen that type of break even stretch i went thru. In games where players are giving money away. There is room for a new poker site where pros and the raking site can live harmoniously. Bad players will donate, always. Its not enough they have a casino as well. They want all the money. Scum bags
10 seconds in we can see you've been labelled by GG as running lucky. On that scale I've never been higher than 'bad run' and still beat the micros after rake. So stay positive guys, it is achievable
@@willieogrady4703I can't speak for higher stakes but certainly for 2NL and 5NL it is perfectly achievable. I hardly get any rake-back on GG but consistently increase my bankroll. I have some losing days but literally never a losing month, and I'm no crusher just an ABC player
the rake discrepancies are the difference between MGR and Total Rake... tale as old as time, Pokertracker can track this correctly, dont know about the other tools...
IMO if the sites keep stealing players in the CASH game tables, the only option is MTTs. You know Exactly how much you pay in rake on the buy-in. And btw, mtt pools are SOFT in every stake, high stakes included.
Well ok, but maybe you didn't have 40% rakeback for the whole time, did you? Maybe you had lower rakeback at first, and leveled it up later? Heck, maybe you even had a periods of time when you played lower volume and so you fallen down to lower rakeback again?
Pokerstars increased all microstakes rake (regular tables) to 5%, with increased rake caps also, which, coupled with the worse rakeback for microstakers, make GG the better deal between the two of them. Granted, GG games are nittier and the preflop rake is quite irritating, but I wouldn't be surprised if, even at 30% RB, GG isn't better for the micro folks.
On pokerstars 25nl i am raking 9bb/100 and winrate of 10bb/100 is still achiavable even tho i would say GG is softer. You might not be paying attention on table selection, or you are simply not that good. (Wich is fine, everybody improves over time)
@@tiagos.8424 well.. 11bb winrate pre rake is not that great at 10nl. You can have this winrate even post rake at pokerstars 10nl. Wich would mean pre rake winrate is +20bb/100. He is definetely in top 10% if he is winning, but thats not crushing
96k hands in 70 days playing non-zoom is kinda crazy. I think if you focused on quality instead of quantity you would do much better, 3-4 tables of Rush Cash IMO. Also reccomend posting your problem on 2+2 they probably got a solution. Take care.
Why is that crazy ? A bit more than 1k hands per day. There's nothing crazy about that. Secondly, he's crushing the stakes. The rake is insane. My question is, is that only for Ontario, CA or worldwide ?
@@Smokey525 Well depends how many tables his playing, I'm playing 3zoom tables and I can manage 1,2k hands in 2-3h approx, so by my calculation he plays atleast 4h a day for 70 days straight. Seems very consistent pro level grind or degenerate 12 tabel button clicking.
this comment is all about you bragging shit and has nothing to do with the topic. that is: the rake is insane! at 12bb/100 he is crushing these limits. especially since ppl on zoom are much tighter his winrate is even more impressive.
I have played poker online since almost day one. Started in 2004, so around 20 years. I have seen a lot of sites and networks come and go. In that entire time GG is the only site I wouldn't touch with a barge pole.
And these are reg tables and not rush and cash? If so thats honestly gross, the softest game with the softest pool but theres no beating that rake unless you just run like god and have 20bb/100 for half a million hands
online poker is dead since 2021 not a profitable enough venture since then, when gto solvers became the norm, and most of the people at higher stakes are just following solvers or bots applying randomized solver strategy, there is not enough fishes anymore, plus rakeback deals going down, it's really not worth it anymore
you need to get better winrate bro, you probably have massive leaks if u cant beat the rake...on stars its around 10bb/100 as well and there is so many winners on those stakes,, post rake
@@moll3y I would say that $1300 profit in a number of hands that can easily be played in two months or less, at 10NL, is actually excellent! After all, IT'S JUST 10NL!
you are kinda right, but 10nl is ridiculous easy, now, 200nl and above, is when it starts to get really impossible do beat, also, at micros you can get many promos wich will get back more than half of this rake, so, the effective rake is way lower than 12 (if play smart).
Yeah that's the plan, I didn't mention PVI in the video but I think I may have been stuck by the PVI hammer pretty hard about 40K hands in. I realized around this mark no matter how much I felt like I was playing good and winning, I was always breaking even at the end of my sessions.
12bb/100 should be a breakeven winrate at micros after rake. you should be able to beat 10NL on GG at 20+ bb/100, and more as breakeven regs start fleeing the site. most live games can be beat at 30-40bb/100 and i've seen legitimate amateurs beat micros at similar rates over 100k+ hands
I've never understood "rake is unbeatable". If you are a consistent winner, you are making more money than losing, regardless how much the rake is. You don't pay rake if you fold. I beat 10/25NL at around 15BB/hour and didn't even notice the terrible rake because I was winning
Yes the BR continues to climb. But only as much as the site lets it, I'm still technically winning at a 12BB/100 but on my graphs I'm simply breaking even because I'm only really winning what they're giving me back in rakeback.
@@moll3y It's still better than most other sites if you go by the numbers. Bovada/Ignition the rake is probably close to 10bb/100 if you include tighter ranges, and there is no rakeback. I guarantee on no other site do you make over 1k at 10nl in 100k hands.
@@jasonskeans they do, all 3bet+ pots, thats why 7% 3bet is winning, tighter= better at low/mid stakes on gg because of the rake, i play 9% 3bet and im crushing nl 25 atm, made bankroll from 5nl and 10nl now playing 25
Man, micro stakes isn't for winning money and building roll. It's good to practice or to blow off some steam cheap. You live in a rich country, save some money and go play meaningful stakes, preferably live, or at least not on GG. That being said, I imagine a pro level player would beat 5NL by a lot, but what would be the point?
@@newbiE24 What do you mean? It's an old comment but as I remember the guy rants about not being able to have a positive winrate in the micros. In response I stated it was a stupid thing to be upset about as it really doesn't matter if you can actually win money at 5 or 10NL unless you are from an extremely poor country. It's just a nonsensical goal. There are two valid reasons to play poker, one is to make money and the other is to be a fish and have fun splashing chips. Neither requires having a 3bb winrate at 10NL, even with mass tabling that's like 2 bucks an hour.
What are u talking about... Great video. He summed UP a lot in 5min Point is that GGs advertaising is a lie. They also lie about rakeback. And back in the days you could grind your way with 50$ to high stakes if u were good and today its impossible. Thats the point. Point is also that GG is sickely greeedy. And its good to mention that if you dont have rich parents who will give you 5k roll u are not able to provide money from poker foryourself whatsoever bcs its impossible. And a lot od folks dont understand this and this grinding at micros is sensless even if you were isildur1
@@dinodoljanin2713 GG is a scum site but it doesn't make grinding the micros any less stupid. You say 5k like it was an amount only rich parents can get you. It's a months salary in a Western country. Get a job, save for 3-6 months and you have a 10-15k roll. It might take a bit longer in a poor country, but if you have game you can always get backers.
Its hilarious how you were beating the game, exactly same way i was for huge returns and then were still "beating" the game but not enough to overcome rack. I guarantee there is something happening with their deck randomization. They just call it variance, but its not. GG is forcing the variance to keep the money recycling, so the same players dont have to keep adding funds and they can rake the game to death. Its a Chinese ran company, more the same dirty chinese tricks. This has zero to do with race btw, ita just how the CPP operates.
The tournaments are beatable. Crushable, actually... This is the case with other poker rooms too. And it's funny because you complain about Holdem. In PLO the rake is even worse. Just forget about cash games and go play MTTs.
Yeah I’ve switched to ps and my redline has became very profitable unfortunately my blue line is plummeting. I just have to figure out where it is and isn’t working. It’s very volitile and stressful at times lol.
1 its called pvi so yes you get around 25 not including leaderboards cash drops jackpots and gg care , 2 if you can t beat nl 10 with 15 -20 bb you sir are not that good at poker , also why the hell you want to play nl10? nl 50 has the most decent rake /rakeback ratio on that site, you also make 80 cents per 100 hands on this stake so thats about 8 bb i think that is a very good winrate in online cash games how much would you like to win at nl10? 3000 dolars at 100 k hands? lul
@@moll3y i dont think you understand how rake works bro , i don t want to bet an ashole about it but winning more then 5 bb ev after rakeback its a decent winrate since is online and you can put a lot more volume then playing 1 table live , but eitherway 1 you clearly played too many hands for that stake should have gone up quik , 2 you are winning pre rakeback on nl 25 so basically you probably make with rakeback more then 5 bb you should just move up agresive in cashgame not try to grind those micros it really is a waste of time , 3 of course different sites have different rake structures but i think you can t really complain while making over 5 bb with rakeback and just saying you can t beat the games since most of the winrate is from rakeback on gg , if you are a loosing player on gg you get PVI 1 that means you get all the rakeback so that way the pool becomes more softer then stars acr etc its just a different model
It is beatable, the rake structure is not so different from other sites, rake is high in genearl at micros, but looks like you are playing too much volume, i bet if you review your database with a coach , he is going to find tons of mistakes, we all make mistakes while playing
Here in the Netherlands GG has a monopoly. The only way you can play online poker is through GG. It is communist bs of the highest order. I don't even really care about the rake so much. For me the gameplay is just atrocious. All that straddle nonsense, running it twice, all the idiotic graphics - it just all adds up to a horrible gaming experience and that's before you start talking about rake. I wish I could play on Pokerstars again but I would have to move to another country! Can you believe that? You have to leave the country to play normal poker.
I live in the Netherlands too and besides gg I signed up with Unibet. Smaller player pool but lower skill level. Rake is a lot lower, no raking preflop. Also no promotions, ggcare, rush/zoom. It's a nice change to gg, check it out.
You realize he is crushing the stakes with over 10bb/100? Get better :D good advice. Even if he gets better, the rake and gg promos would still be a lie.
@@attilabalogh865 he doesnt beat the rake so he doesnt beat the game, if u count rake i beat it by 15bb/100. the games are beatable and it is a skill issue, not of gto knowladge but just fish exploiting
