I mostly agree with Rashad but on this one gill got him I know what Gill is talking about but I would disagree and say Kevin Durant is up there with Curry and Lebron
@@AFTWKING my question is why you worried about how often I agree with another person, seems kinda strange that even decided to reply to that part of my statement. And I watch often enough to know that I hardly EVER agree with him. Go play somewhere else and worry about yourself, stop worrying about me
Giannis who lead the league in all star votes this year and been top 3 in votes since 2018/2019, top 3-5 in jersey sales since 2018/2019, onna Nike’s best selling silhouettes, been top 5 in total views across all the nba’s platforms isn’t a superstar??? Crazy talk
They don't watch basketball games. Y'all gotta understand ex NBA players only thing they can talk about is basketball skill of people they HAPPEN to like and watch. Any take about anything else is 50/50 hit or miss..Giannis is a SUPER superstar both popularity wise and gameplay wise. Watching Giannis live is one of the best experiences the NBA has to offer right now. Also the fat fuck in the middle keeps disrespecting Giannis and his brother even tho he wouldn't be like that irl in their face. I promise u that. Always the fat unathletic fuck that has the most disrespectful shit to say. That's why Sports discourse has become like this nowadays
People are misunderstanding what they said because they are saying your favorite player isn't a superstar. A superstar is someone who transcends the sport of basketball.
These people are so disconnected from the game of basketball that when they say, “he’s not a star” what they mean is, he is not a celebrity. But make no mistake, jokic and giannis ARE, BASKETBALL STARS.
Bro this is obvious, they aren't talking pure basketball. They speaking in 'face of the league' level popularity. Basketball stardom is based on accomplishments and accolades. To be a superstar you need more than that.
@@dataphoenix8004 Imagine winning back-to-back MVPs, with a Finals MVP to top it off. Then being told you’re not a star bc of the ratings. You, are a damn fool.
@@dataphoenix8004 So Tim Duncan isn't a star because he was involved in 2 of some of the most boring Finals ever, 2005 with Pistons and 2007 with Cavs? Come on now.
@@cortlandsimmons6241that’s the difference between a super star and a star. My girl hate basketball but know who lebron and curry. She don’t know who joker is, even though he a monster
@@RobertLewis-zp4vcno we understand. Seems like you don’t understand dipshit. There’s never a damn time Steve Francis was ever bigger than Giannis. In what world clown?
Saying jokic isn’t even a star is insane. Then later he calls him a star so Gil is lost on this one. Also just because you on a superstar lane doesn’t make you one but he couldnt say no. And with Giannis and Luka they don’t factor in their overseas popularity. Overall appeal counts not just America. Gil always hates on non American players
@@justanobody0and I’m reasonable and is not like I’m a foreigner or a person who over hypes foreign players. But Giannis is and I’d argue Luka is although I understand if people say he is almost there. But to say jokic isn’t even a star is blasphemy.
when people says vince carter and superstar in the same sentence... i can't take them seriously... and if you say Jokic, Giannis are not superstars... they are so messed up in their head. an nba player who doesn't have a ring is a superstar, and a player who is the main reason for winning a championship is not?... you know that there is something wrong with their reasoning,
There are 5 to 6 superstars in the league at all times, what a superstar? They can potentially get you to the finals and make a major impact in on the finals lebron and curry are leaving this tier you have Giannis, Jokic, luka, Tatum, embiid, and I might say KD just offensively, it has nothing to do with popular and allstar are butler, curry, AD, etc
Lowest rated finals in NBA history. He's a x2 mvp and just won the finals and yet he isn't even top 10 in jersey sales, even Lamelo sells more jerseys than him. Gil is right.
Obviously MJ, Magic and Bird. Charles Barkley was well known around the world too not as much as MJ,magic or Bird. But yes you are right mostly Lebron and Curry.
@trelwilliams5003 Durant is not world famous. My wife has no idea who Durant is. But my wife has heard of Lebron and also Steph Curry. Right now Travis Kelce is also very well known because of Taylor Swift. I have no idea why some players are more famous than others. Durant skill wise I would put him top 3 in the NBA for sure.
LeBron and Curry transcend eras in their businesses, but Jokic may only be truly remembered as a superstar in the era that he plays. All of them are superstars though.
Shxt crazyyy his best accolades is 3x all start never mvp never all nba team but hes a superstar to Gil only because Gil demolished him u see what gill is always doing 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 trynna lift his shxt ass career into something big nahhhh ninja
The problem with this topic, is that you have to set hard definitions for the phrases before you assign the players. Otherwise you’re just infinitely guessing at what quantifies a players status.
This! But It's also possible to grasp a person's definition and engage with it, it would make for a better conversation! Rashad's insistence to never engage with - and belittle - other people's definitions constantly hurts conversations on the show...
The issue is people just thinking basketball. Lebron and Curry are something different than everybody else. Greek Freak can’t carry the league that’s the issue. He’s not marketable as the others
@@cooperkodi33 it's surprising so many people don't get that point. Being great in your field of entertainment doesn't automatically make you a superstar to the world at large
@@cooperkodi33It’s becoming a world game though. I think Xenophobia is blinding us from that reality. Go overseas and see who they name after Bron and Steph
Well one way or another he was saying there were a lot more superstars in the 00s maybe he's saying casuals were more well informed in the 00s Off the top of my head, he named: Shaq, Allen Iverson, Tmac, Kkobe, Steve Francis Vince, Yao Ming, oh and Wade So 8 superstars in the 00s
Giannis is obviously a superstar i dont know what Kenyon and Gil are talking about. Because if Allen Iverson,T-mac, ja morant and tatum and Vince Carter are superstars. Giannis darn sure is one.
ask your aunts that don't watch basket ball and show them Giannis face and ask them if they know who he is how much you want to bet they wont know who he is. we are not talking ball were talking notoriety outside the court
@@kevinvazquez5505you think my aunty know who tf Tatum,vince, or mcgrady is? She only know ja because that nigga was on tv for brandishing a gun, not from basketball.
@@thelastquincy1457 But a superstar is typically considered to be a household name. Think like Snoop Dogg, you don't have to be a rap fan to have heard of him
Real quick. I'm a casual NBA enjoyer. I rarely watch any games. If you are a basketball diehard fan, then you probably don't realize which of your players reach beyond your sport and which are local stars. KD at one point was becoming a Megastar. That's not the case anymore. Dude, I wear Jordan's but can't tell you who won the past 3 NBA championships. There's levels to this.
This is the first time I think I've found myself agreeing with Rashad. By the end of this video Gil doesn't even sound like he's arguing the same point from the beginning.
Talking about RJ and Cam were ranked higher ok cool, there was a reason Zion was #1, he played much better than them at Duke and had one of the best one and done seasons ever.
@@Atlas365247 media push or not, they are better players. It wasn't ja averaging 20 and 10 or Zion playing great and being AP player of the year? It was media that got them top 2. We see in the league they continued to show they are better than RJ and Cam
Gil has forgotten that the NBA market has gone far beyond the USA. Giannis is a SUPERSTAR in Europe, Africa, and EVEN in the USA. I can always sense some level of xenophobia when these ol heads talk about Giannis and Jokic. If Giannis was from NY these guys would call him a megastar even if he was half the player of what he currently is.
@@369pendulum my point is, that these guys still think this is the 90s or early 00s. The market doesn't care anymore if you are from some inner city in the USA. You are not just trying to sell sneakers to the majority of kids in the US anymore. It's now global. At this rate, I won't be surprised if the overseas market has now equaled or even surpassed the domestic market. It's no coincidence that in the last half a decade the season's MVP has been a foreign player. Being from the USA is no longer a prerequisite to being an NBA Superstar like in the 90s. The NBA is quickly focussing on branding a foreign player as the next Lebron. Just look at the hype around Wemby and the fact that some days ago they actually played a couple of NBA season games in Paris. Gil is still talking like its pre-social media era....the product is now bigger than what the domestic market can do to satisfy it.
@@devJOE-Man Dude I’m not saying I agree with them. I’m saying if Giannis played in NY & won a chip for them, these guys wouldn’t be able to deny that Giannis is a superstar. Let me repeat, I do not agree with them at all, but if Giannis was in NY I don’t see them having this perspective.
@@theoriginaltroll388 if it was just scorers than wouldn't Isaiah Thomas be a superstar when he averaged 30 ppg and Embiid, Luka, Giannis, etc are scoring 30+ ppg, and they didn't make his superstar list Embiid is averaging 36 ppg right now, Luka is averaging 34.7 ppg right now
@justanobody0 Gil is just tripping this time Giannis has his own shoes, every type of MVP, 97 in 2k, captain of the all star team...If that's not a superstar idk what is
Yea where in the world do people yell out "YANIS!" when they do a move and what move are they doing when they say it? That's a megastar. Iverson, Jordan, Shaq, Kobe, Curry, people who change how the game is viewed. It's not JUST Jersey sales and all star votes.
I get what Gil is trying to say but a there are a lot of superstars in the league but there aren’t a lot of megastars in the league if that makes sense
The levels they’re talking about have to do with personality, the IT factor, the marketability, and play style. Jokic for example. Super dominant on the court, but doesn’t have the personality or a marketable look. He’s a 7ft chubby European center who doesn’t care literally said he wants to be unknown. He’s not relatable, thus making him less marketable. Steph is a smaller guard who came in mad skinny and makes crazy plays. He’s a good looking guy with good values and a fun play style. That makes him VERY marketable.
Marketability. Jokic doesn't have the demeanor, people hate Embiid for whatever reason, and Giannis' name is too hard to pronounce. Luka, on the other hand, has the personality to pull it off. So when he says superstar, he's talking about celebrity. It takes a certain personality to pull it off.
Because it's not just about how good you are, it's also about popularity and how you transcend beyond the sport. He's the most recent finals mvp and yet he's not even top 10 in jersey sales and gets outsold by Lamelo. That is not a superstar.
I see some people are still missing the superstar point, which I can't figure out why is this even a debate. No one is moving products and money like Lebron, Curry, and JT. From shoes, jersey sales, advertisement deals, movie deals, appearances, and media coverage. They are in a different lane than everyone else. Not to say there aren't other great players in the league skill wise, but think outside the NBA and how they affect the economy. Think larger than they have a shoe deal. Everyone damn near can get a shoe deal in today's NBA. And most of them don't sell.
Thats when gil lost me when he said vc as much as I lovee vince we not finna sit here and put him in a superstar convo with guys like kobe bron michael jordan shaq steph etc
@@SunniChampok but he said Giannis and kd aren’t bro. You not gonna sit here with a straight face and tell me they aren’t superstars but tmac and stephon fucking Marbury were
@@SunniChamp You confused with Celebrity and Basketball player? Heck, if you are only basing Superstar with being famous: Giannis and KD is more famous WORLDWIDE than TMac is.
Joker and Giannis might be superstars in their home country but not in the states. Bron, Steph, KD and maybe a few others can’t go to a mall in a midsized city. They’d shut it down.
From the new guys who can be called a super star is Giannis he has the numbers, on and off the court championship and he’s International from this new wave of players he’s one of the most well know internationally but Gil don’t like foreign players so he’s gonna ignored, I cannot believe I’m agreeing with Rashad.
All Stars play well enough to make the all star team. Superstars are globally known. Megastars change how people view the game. Iverson had everyone crossing over. People say Jordan and Kobe when they take shots. Curry got people shooting from behind half court. Shaq LITERALLY changed rosters based on his team and had people tryna break rims and backboards AND had the nba crying about him when HE was getting fouled. Not a soul on this earth, even in Boston, takes a shot and goes "Tatum!" Come on now guys be for real.
There are 5 to 6 superstars in the league at all times, what a superstar? They can potentially get you to the finals and make a major impact in on the finals lebron and curry are leaving this tier you have Giannis, Jokic, luka, Tatum, embiid, and I might say KD just offensively, it has nothing to do with popular and allstar are butler, curry, AD, etc
There are 5 to 6 superstars in the league at all times, what a superstar? They can potentially get you to the finals and make a major impact in on the finals lebron and curry are leaving this tier you have Giannis, Jokic, luka, Tatum, embiid, and I might say KD just offensively, it has nothing to do with popular and allstar are butler, curry, AD, etc
Depends what is your definition of superstar. To me a superstar is someone who can recognizable by ppl who don’t watch the sport. Basically Bron and Steph are the only superstar in basketball
@@yvans. thats subjective & depends on the reasoning. All it takes is a well placed commercial, a controversy, a viral moment, etc and ppl know somebody. Ppl who dont watch sports def know who Kyrie Irving is.
You’re explaining why he’s not a superstar lol. Yeah you’re not American and Greek doesn’t overly support you. Yao Ming was a superstar because China paid billions investing in the nba because of Yao Ming.
what a time to be alive when a bunch of ex-players who can LITERALLY be regarded as underachievers for not reaching their potential can sit down and debate and criticise OBVIOUS elite players lmao
"...failures for not achieving their potential," that a very very foolish statement. No one in the NBA is a failure. Its a very elite position to be in, which is why you are tuning into them and not vice versa.
@@MikeBTek you sound like someone who ADORES participation trophies. With the stats they had before and even after getting into the NBA more was expected from them AS top-rated players which they didn't achieve especially with the contract someone like Gil received. Just cos you graduated from medical school (which itself is way more difficult than any professional sport) does not mean you automatically become a success in the field...hence the word BUST. Note: I am talking about their achievements in court and not financially wise. We have all seen mediocre folks get paid more than they deserve in many careers other than sports.
@@devJOE-Man One stands a better chance of being a doctor than being a NBA player by far. There is nothing mediocre about being in the NBA. How many job openings each year? Only 60 players are drafted and some of those drafted don't make the team. I will believe your BS when you get a job with only 60 openings per year, since it's so easy.
@@MikeBTekagree bro. It always makes me mad when people make fun of players like Jeremy Lin. He made it to Harvard and the NBA. Motherfucker is top 10% in academics and sports.
@@MikeBTek anthony bennett is not a failure i guess, pro player meat suckers like you are the worst imao...gil never lived up to his talent, compared to jokic whihc is supposedly not even a star he is freaking bum its as simple as that and lets not even talk about rashad imao
Did Gilbert just said Jokic and Giannis are not stars of the league? WOW. he is really tripping. 😂 Not only are they stars but they are superstars. They stayed true with their teams that drafted them, worked hard, build chemistry and made their respective teams who they are now. They both won 1 championship with their team with them being the finals MVP and they both are in their primes dominating the game. To say they are not a star, let alone a superstar is just straight up ignorant, disrespectful and BS. LOL. 🤣
Bro yall said kevin durant wasnt a superstar 😭😭😭😭 yall are idiots KEVIN DURANT HAD THE SHOES THE PLAY AND EVERYONE HAD EYES ON HIM 😭😭😭 yall need to stop man this was a dumb argument
Jokic has several videos on youtube over 10mil/20+mil views He is huge in EUROPE/ASIA as well, and he just won his first ring... Give him another few years and he is a "mega star"
@@WTN416 Not that young. Durant is absolutely a superstar, especially when he was younger. Leading the league in scoring, arguably the best scorer in the league when he was winning scoring titles and MVP. KD better than Vince and TMAC
@@WTN416 ??trying to prejudice on age let me tell you something Vince was considered a superstars ONLY because he had a famous dunk contest was he an actual superstar no. MOST NBA superstars are known for their fame TMAC was never as famous as Vince and He wasn't actually consider a superstar to a few people eyes as much as vince,kobe,duncan but he was up there in 03-04 and people judge him that he was going to be the next Kobe BUT was he ?.both of these players never won a ring never won a mvp never won a fmvp NEVER EVEN GOT A RING how could they be superstars I don't even remember them even being all nba dk about that. Now Harden, Westbrook they still aren't superstars realistically in my opinion you have to dominate the season AND the PLAYOFFS once in a decade to be considered a superstar what I mean by that is have a great season overall play good in the season and play better when Ur on the line. Vince,TMAC,Harden,Westbrook can be consider superstars in the making. Now Giannis,KD,also Jokic are superstars let me tell you why Most people will look in the playoffs and see who led the team to victory these three guys all won the chip. Winning a ring improvises your popularity by a lot just having a good Regular season does not make you a superstar Last person you can even say who was a superstar that didn't lead their franchise to a championship was Elgin baylor but like I said compare him to Oscar roberston who won a ring he might have not been the best on his team at the time but was still that almost superstar level but once he got that ring and helped led his team he was known as a superstar unlike elgin baylor who quitted the chance he had.
So much unbelievable dumb stuff that was said on here…giannis before the age of 30‼️ 8x AS (all-star captain 4 years in a row), AS MVP, 7x all-nba, 5x all-defensive, DPOY, MIP, all-rookie, 2xMVP, NBA Champ, Finals MVP, NBA top 75 group that's a SUPERSTAR‼️
I get what Gil was saying. They literally called Steve Francis the Franchise and he was cold but he wasn’t the best player tho. He was a highlight reel
They forgot to mention People like Dennis Rodman hella NBA Players are better than Rodman but his whole Aura Charisma Swag About himself gained him Hella Notoriety outside of basketball this is not a basketball question look at it like this they’re basically asking who’s cars the coolest not who’s car better or faster but who’s are cooler
“Donovan Mitchell isn’t a star” and y’all said Cam Thomas a better scorer than him too… wtf did he do to y’all retired players that you never give him even the minimalistic form of respect?
Cam Thomas who went 2 full games without making a basket is a better scorer than Donovan Mitchell who in his first playoffs was keeping pace with fucking Wilt Chamberlain and Michael Jordan in PPG. Make it make sense
What people like yall and Rashad don’t realize is.. superstar is off court marketability plus on court success.. hence why jokic and Timmy d are not superstars .. they aren’t marketable the only two people I would put in superstar with bron and curry is jokic and Giannis and they are not marketable enough off court .. I hope I explained it better
@@shinsukecorbin425 once again google how many commercials does Steph have and then do giannis .. it’ll give you from January .. Steph has 300k and giannis has 40 lol
@@BrothaMan98 ratings say other wise Steph team ain’t been good fr in a minute .. why Steph has more ntg than giannis .. maybe not marketable is the wrong word but not marketable enough to be a superstar isn’t arguable
@@omelettedufromage4lol dude said Luka and Giannis weren't superstars when they litterally meet all of his criteria for one. Especially Giannis because the guy was always the all star game captain and is now the leading vote getter. And Gil was using All Star game votes as a critieria. Not to mention his jersey all ways a top selling one.
I disagree,the only 2 players currently playing who People not interested in sports know are Lebron and Steph, they don’t know those other names , this is the point gil should have made ,everybody outside basketball know Jordan /lebron /iverson /kobe those are superstars
Mega and Super are different. Since the 90s , I will say Mega star: Jordan, Kobe, lebron, Curry. That means no matter the arena , home, or on the road, that player is the center of everything. Fans would go to watch him, on the street, anywhere you know that player is a God.
@@hectorcorniel3422 lol, why get defensive and say older than you? You're not, but you should be old enough to recognize Shaq was the biggest star in the league when MJ retired
Gil & K Mart is kinda Right I mean You can’t show a random girl a picture of nikola jokic & assume she would know who he is but if you show a girl a picture of someone like Ja Morant she would know who he is even if she doesn’t watch the sport
The definition of a superstar is an nba player who has an mvp, dpoy or finals mvp or 1st/2nd team all-nba who has won a championship or finals appearance within the last 3 years edit: jokic, giannas, steph & tatum are the only superstar in my opinion
Perfect example of just because you played in the league doesn’t mean you know what you’re talking about Why didn’t they mention how Giannis lead all voting lmao oh man
there are only two superstars, a superstar is known by people that have never seen a basket ball game. If you ask your aunt that does not watch basketball who lebron or steph is there is a high probability that she would have seen or heard of them if you ask her who jokic is or kd or Giannis is theres almost 0% she would know who they are. It's not that hard to understand its not about ball its about marketability
I feel that ignores local markets I think if you live in a city, and the radio or tv is on, they're likely going to see their own team's star so if you ask that aunt and they live in Orlando in the early 2000s, there is a good chance they'll know who TMac is if you ask that aunt and they live in Houston in the early 2000s, they'll probably know who Steve Francis is
@@wildheart2978 Rick wasn’t a superstar. Nobody was buying Laker tickets for Rick. Nobody was buying tickets to see John Salley. Casuals know who Kevin Durant is. This is assuming too much from casuals. Casuals know who Kyrie Irving is & they didnt list him as a superstar. Man had a movie, the flat earth controversy, the yacht incident, the documentary they tried to say was anti-Semitic, him not wanting to take the vaccine. Casuals def know who Kyrie is but Kyrie wasn’t named. The logic starts falling a part when theres no one to yell & talk over ppl. This is one of 3 times McCant has ever been right.
