Glaring Lyman Incongruities That Should Not Be 

I have the latest editions of Lyman cast bullet manuals, and the 50th Edition. Excellent manuals, and I like the fact that they load and test bullets from many manufacturers. This makes it very useful; I have Hornady and Speer manuals as well. I have an old Lyman manual from 1967 that has the plastic ring binders and a soft cover. Very interesting how components have evolved over the decades.

I never thought of them not sealing. Thx for the explanation and lesson. Im still “new” and always learning

What a classy and elegant way to take Lyman to the woodshed.

Earlier reloading manuals had no way to measure chamber pressure or over all pressures. These companies further had no knowledge what condition firearms were in at the time their information was used. Linotype is worn lead letters and symbols used in typesetting machines at newspaper/printing companies. Linotype is unavailable currently. Adjust lead mix to wheel weights with 2% tin/antimony added to each pot.

Another valuable video from FC45.

I would also recommend the Lee manual it goes into greater detail and covers more loads and powders. However I use all three manuals as I have many loads to do and it’s nice to compare what powders they recommend or more importantly the ones I don’t have ! 😂🇬🇧🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

Im not a cast bullet maker, just a typical reloader, so the best thing I took away from this video is how to use the word incongruity, so thanks for that.

Noticed that too, I frequently disregard most of their alloy choices and save my lino for cast 223 and custom spitzer 30 cal/8mm molds. I thought it was hilarious they wanted Linotype for 38 wadcutters, where swaged pure lead suffices.

Wonder when the cast reloading sections in Lyman and others will include Powder Coat?

I don't think they are recommending alloys, but listing the alloys used to get the bullet weight as listed since different alloys will weigh different in the same mould... And I have used Lyman manuals for over 30 years...

Lyman pistol and revolver handbooks one two and three have mostly yhe same loads and match lyman 47. 48. 49. Speer is the same. They go four or five boks with few changes. They both put out a lot of books with little new info.

Good catch. Even though this video dates back to 2017 I had not seen it until now, have you received a comment from Lyman about this inconsistency?

I suspect that Lyman did this on purpose, the harder alloy creating a higher pressure spike than softer alloys. The chose the hardest common type of lead, and adjusted their data accordingly, to prevent someone from overloading, just due to harder alloys.

I was just asking myself about the hardness Lyman recommends. I think it’s because they are trying to sell more lead.

FC, I have been reloading for only about 5 yrs, and I have found that discrepancies between manuals , not just between companies, but between different publications from the SAME companies is very frustrating. This raises a lot of questions and diminishes confidence in the printed data. It's like, uh, ok..., which one is correct..? It would be nice if they could get their act together. Thanks for trying to bring this to their attention.

incroguities, I'm going to use that word someday when I need to sound smart. ; )

I was sure hoping they would have more info about reloading 9mm.. with more powders and bullet weights. Pretty disappointing...

Thanks for the video. Lyman has been my go to for many years. I have for many years been using light loads of Unique for plinker loads in my 45-70's along with paper patching. I size down the 458 and patch them back up. Very good accuracy without breaking my shoulder. You don't hear much anymore about light loads with Uniuqe any more

I noticed the same thing years ago. It's something that I scratched my head over . You and I know for Linotype is expensive compared to other resources and I believe it should be reserved only as high velocity applications in cases of rifle pressures. we can use alloy material for handgun use. also, in cases where low pressure is involved, a Handgun target bullet needs a softer alloy in order to work correctly for obdurate with in the barrel. Dave.

I powder coat all my cast bullets and use nothing but wheel weights. Works great. I started powder coating the first day I started casting so I've never worried about alloys or traditional lube

I tend to load hardball. 50/50 lino lead powder coated or gas checked. Up to 1800 or so i get great accuracy. 2 moa. 300 blk and 458. I havent loaded for 357 mag or sig. And pure lead for slugs. What kind of alloys do you recommend?

Likely there will be an update posted online. I have seen similar Hornady mistakes.

I have to wonder if Lyman Staff is watching FC45LC video???

Good catch Fortune Cookie.

Thanks for the heads-up (I need to get new manuals, mine are all much older :), but it raises a question. Is that notation a "recommendation" or is it documentation of the lead type they used during their testing and development of that data? It should be both, but if not both, which is it? Changing alloys changes pressures. Perhaps in the past they were using linotype on everything to simplify and standardize their testing, and if that was the case would one want to just change the type without redoing all the testing? At least softer mixes are likely to reduce pressures, so the data might be wrong in a safe direction. Perhaps they should state their test methodology and recommendations separately. Before piezo systems the effort required to do these tests was very high, setting up each measurement for CUP is a time and material consuming job. Even with modern equipment it takes time and effort (though less), and they cannot update all the load data in a new manual so some of it must be recopied from earlier manuals. If the load data being presented now in the manuals is the same, but the stated alloy has changed that indicates a problem of a different type - this means the data was copied but the alloy changed without doing new measurements, which would seem to be a potentially serious issue, or at least a failure to properly document the data being presented. I would expect newer measurements to be in PSI from piezo equipment which is far less effort to use once calibrated. I suppose it is possible they may do some conversion to CUP even if they are not using copper crushers though. It just reconfirms what we already know - consult more than one manual, and learn what you are doing if you are going to reload! These days companies expect more from less, so these writers and editors probably have to work with very tight schedules and very limited budgets for re-measuring test data. That budget is likely used for new cartridges rather than re-testing old ones.

It has been like that for years. The 49th edition is the same. Check your older manuals to see when it changed.

That's interesting.

I have the 50th anniversary edition from Lyman. It is the first manual I have bought. I am still new at reloading and have a question. I want to use projectiles that are not in the manual. It o my offers hollow point or cast bullets in its data. I want to use jacketed target ammo for my revolver and levergun. For my levergun I prefer jacketed soft point bullets. Can I substitute day a 158 grain flat top fully plated bullet for the expensive Hornady or Spear hollow point as long as the weight is the same and the OAL is within the correct tolerances? I have sent requests to bullet and powder companies for alternative data for specific bullets. Don't want to move forward with the manual I have until I get my question answered. I have gotten mixed responses to the question.. An you help me out with this? Love your channel. Thank you.

Hi FC, I will be casting 45/70 for my Henry. I will be casting 500 grain with lead and Linotype. Which recipe should I follow?

Lead bullet technology. I believe out of moyei springs Idaho was a great source for casting data. We use wheel weights and heat treat them in the oven. You can experiment with adding linotype in small amounts for extra hardness. Loads with linotype will shatter instead of expand. A trade off between leading and expansion. I see the concern and that totally makes sense. New people will see that reloading is a confusing process and that it's best not to rush into anything or make assumptions about veracity of claims made by manufacturers. For instance the info on the front of hodgdon powder cans is highly optimistic and doesn't tell the whole story. Ammo manufacturers are especially optimistic about claimed velocity especially Weatherby whos loads used to consistently chronograph 200 fps below advertised. Lyman has never been the greatest, even in its heyday years of the 60s and 70s. It is just one of the few sources we had.read a lot of manuals, the whole thing, not just the load charts 😑

Inconsistencies like that are frustrating. Like the other video you had showing how acceptable charges in old manuals have been seriously downgraded in newer ones. I found something like that in the Lee manual as well. I have a few years older vol 2 and my dad just bought a brand new vol 2. Cover is the same but his is printed differently, and the 9mm data for 124/125 for TiteGroup powder is way different! He loads 4.2gr which is way over max according to his new book while it is closer to start in my version. Why would they change the data from one printing to another while not stating an edition change??!!!

from what i have heard from wat others think, they might have picked linotype, just to have data because it has higher pressure spikes. so in case the unexperienced caster loads up the wrong lead thinking lead is lead the gun wouldn't blow up. or if thats all a person had and they decided to cast they would still load a safe round. and to save curious casters from diving into dangerous territory and hurting themselves. there not optimal rounds but there safe tested, and they left the hand casting book for the optimized casting round for the more enthusiastically experienced hand loaders and casters. so the lyman 50th ed is there for the worst case scenario lead casting , the guy who thinks lead is lead.

Yes, Lyman 49 states Linotype for all of the 38s also.

I've been having pretty poor experiences with Lyman these years of late. Molds cut undersized, brand new sizer(s!) having the pressure screw pull through the base metal after only a few hundred cycles. then there was the outrageous hassle of trying to get these things fixed /replaced. I'm through byin lieman.. now cut me a switch!!!

I think I learn something from just about every video that I watch produced by you. I'm curious if you have contacted Thomas Griffin/Lyman regarding your findings and what their response would be. I own both of those books and will pay better attention to the details found in each. Thanks for the free education.

Hey FC, isn't Linotype getting harder to find ?

How did you get the "N" in that LYMAN cast ingot to come out backwards?

back then you could explain the linotype advice in 38 special ,that the lino type letters being used wrong bij bookprint factory

I can't come up with a logical reason for them to do that other than an editing mistake? OR! Maybe they assume we are using the (typically) extra hard commercial cast bullets when we are using the reloading manual, but assume we are using bullets we cast ourselves when using the cast bullet handbook?

I rely on the Lyman 50th manual & find real differences in their loads for TiteGroup Hodgdon power versus what Hodgdon states sometimes a real eye opener for sure.

And its not just limited to that either. Same goes for loading data also, that of which I'm sure has already been covered due to your excellent attention to detail...

Could be they simply changed their opinion on it. A lot of new load specs for a given company have been cut back from older recipes.

That why if I got a questions I know how to contact you plus its easier than reading the book 🔫📚🎯

its also a severe waste of money to use linotype for 38 special. considering you get roughly 1.5 lbs of antimony in a 5 lb bar of super hard alloy(30% antimony) its roughly 12.5 lbs of lead vs 30 lbs or so of lyman #2 alloy. i have the lee mold and for 38 special i think all they use is 10:1 and i wouldn't shoot them at 357 magnum velocities but fine for 38.

Lyman deserves credit for posting data for Lee, RCBS and Saeco molds.

Wow. The 50th Edition hasn’t been out all that long, and yours already looks 50 years old.