GMG Reviews - Warhammer: The Old World - Forces of Fantasy (Part 1 - The Dwarfen Mountain Holds) 

I loved that box but some of the Dwarf sculpts were a little rough.

Same for me if they release the Island of Blood High Elves as a standalone.

The Dragonslayer was bad but I think the engineers, warriors, and thunderers hold up. The Thane was one of the weaker sculpts too imo.@@shaneh7129

​@@shaneh7129they were all a little rough especially if you got a later pressing.

@@AnchisesI think they may. The photos show the plastic island of blood sea guard and swordmasters

Thats awesome same here! Eldar for 40k Dwarfs for Fantasy! Opposites to be sure!

SHORT!?

SHORT?!

Having been one of the rare people on the planet that have worked with that kit, trust me when i say this, you don't want that. It was really underwhelming. We'd need an entirely new one done to be up to modern scratch

@@SuperKeenR how dire was it? what kit would you compare it to?

@@arthogof it was at the same quality as the 7th ed plastic warriors kit. Softer mould lines, lack of detail, just not the level you expect your hero to have, especially when compared to say the plastic empire lord or wizard from the same era. Real shame too :(

@@SuperKeenR hmmm... Fair one I've just dug out my dwarves and the metal characters are just incredible

@@SuperKeenR fair enough, i have some complaints about the "triangle dwarfs". But modern kit lack some arm swap i like to and it was just the begginning when the kits were released. The disparition of that sprue left a gap in the Book as it was erased... At least it would cohérent with the minis since WE won't have full refresh. But i take all new we can get. Even some lost in the past.

Great weapon with Rune of Parrying and Grudge Rune alone will be awesome, throw in a +1 attack and you're going to win Grindhammer. Also, his weapon is Gromril so it's +2S/AP-3

Yes they have just WS3 and not WS4 like they always had. Yeah dwarfs really do seem a bit on the short end of everything.

I think this book is best form all I have seen. Can I ask what is bad in this book (maybe accept irondrakes who where op in 8ed). Runes are great and despite some nerfs they are much smaller then what I see in other races.

@@tomekhekin914 slayers are bad.. vanguard i think it s useless cause you can only move 3". Maybe slayer heroes can be usefull . Irondrakes i think are good. They have bs4 now that is very good,they re meant to shoot not fight in close combat. Maybe the anvil is not great offensively but it s good for magical defense

​@@tomekhekin914 slayers are even worse than before

I hope the points will be right with the anvil, I want one on the battlefield

@@niceboldt7295 the anvil is super expensive, 235 points

They get a 3+ with rerolling 1s and a 6+ ward. Full plate gives 4+, shield improves it by 1, gromril special rule gives reroll 1s, Ironbreakers special rule gives 6+ ward. No parry in the new rules from what I can see. In addition you can improve armour by another 1 and get full armour rerolls from the Anvil of Doom spells, as well as multiple disspell runes. Add in the stealth buff of most weapons losing armour pen and the rune banner that makes charging units lose their charge special rules and bonuses, and they're unshiftable.

@@SweetKillarney13 Thank you very much for the answer!

@@SweetKillarney13Don’t bother with the Anvil it’s always massively overpriced, just take a second unit of Ironbreakers instead!

@@lukefreeman4281 Yeah the anvil is really not looking good at all.

Uff yes right, quarrellers and thunderers are just having WS 3 but they seem to be a bit cheaper thou. But thinking off that only the 1st rank of missile troops are able to shoot probably I do not see that much shooting being played by dwarfs. You do not want to have or don't have the space for units of 10 wide shooters probably.

@@richardpagel6959 I think it's how they were often played in earlier editions than 8th, but yes I guess the rank of ten would be 2" wider now. I've got mixed feelings about it - all my models are very old (I bought or was given them back in the late 80s) and probably my least favourite are my Quarrellers as they are the metal ones with rather oversized plastic crossbows. My Rangers on the other hand are original Bugmans so happy to field them instead though they'll cost more points of course but do look like they might be really good in terms of stats and rules. I only have a handful of Thunderers, but the ones I have are some of my favourite models - I was planning on fleshing the unit out to a decent number and had found some non-GW ones that I like, but it looks like I won't be needing more than ten in total now.

@@ClydeMillerWynant Also thought about that 1 unit of rangers in core. As skirmishers they can probably shoot 360° and this would be great. Maybe even a unit of 20 next to a unit of longbeards and your 500 pts core (from 2000 pts) is already filled. Or 10 rangers and 2 x 5 quarrelers as distraction (on the other side of the table) or simply as chaff between your units.

They can't be the general, and a loner character can only join a unit with loner.

You still need 25% minimum on core, so a unit of Longbeards, warriors, quarellers or thunderers will be needed to make that % of your force.

And you will need a further dwarf character as general as my guess is that slayer characters will not be allowed to be the general.

@@richardpagel6959 do you think I could use a lord or a king that is essentially a Slayer King? I saw an awesome kitbash that I’d love to make for myself

​@@samuelsanders5755 You can play a king but he will not be a real slayer thou. But to be honest, I would not field more than 1 slayer character I guess because the master rune of swiftness only exists once and striking first is very important for a model with no save of any kind at all. You can maybe give a 2nd daemonslayer 2 runes of speed for an agility of 7 and a rune of parrying. Also, it is very hard to field more than 1-2 anyway when you want to field lots of slayers. Like this for instance: Warhammer: The Old World, Dwarfen Mountain Holds === ++ Characters [693 pts] ++ King [254 pts] - Great Weapon - Full Plate Armour - Shieldbearers - Rune of Preservation - Rune of the Furnace - Rune of Parrying Daemon Slayer [244 pts] - Great Weapon - Master Rune of Swiftness - Rune of Parrying - Rune of Fury - Rune of the Furnace - Rune of Warding Daemon Slayer [195 pts] - Hand Weapon - Rune of Parrying - 2 Runes of Speed - Rune of Warding ++ Core Units [505 pts] ++ 22 Long Beards - Hand Weapons, Heavy Armour, Shields - Elder with Rune of Passage - Standard Bearer with Rune of Fear - Musician 5 Rangers (0-1) [66 pts] - Hand Weapons, Crossbows, Heavy Armour, Shields - Ol' Deadeye 5 Quarrellers [50 pts] - Hand Weapons, Crossbows, Heavy Armour, Shields 5 Quarrellers [50 pts] - Hand Weapons, Crossbows, Heavy Armour, Shields ++ Special Units [799 pts] ++ 18 Slayers [260 pts] - Additional Hand Weapons - 2 Giant Slayers - Standard Bearer - Musician 18 Slayers [260 pts] - Additional Hand Weapons - 2 Giant Slayers - Standard Bearer - Musician 20 Slayers [279 pts] - Additional Hand Weapons - 1 Giant Slayers - Standard Bearer - Musician --- Created with "Old World Builder" [old-world-builder.com] The 3 x 5 core dwarfs are some shooting against chaff units while being chaff themselves. But this roster will probably not work like that as people with lots of shooting and magic will probably simply kill you one by one and you have no threat on long range besides 15 lousy, immobile shooters. Maybe going without king, filling core with lots of quarrelers and handgunners and taking some cheap general would be better than a king.

3d print, there are some REALLY cool stl's out there ;)

Unfortunately they've been out of production for a while and most boxes of stuff are going for absolutely insane amounts. Best bet is used lots; Nobel Knight has a few sets of models, but it's parts of someone's collection so it's a bunch of already primed semi painted stuffs. Mainly the single part dudes from battle for skull pass

Deathblow will be quite unimportant as it is only a s3 attack when the model dies but for sure it will. Or do you mean the killing blow?

If you’re using shields and fall back in good order, you can opt to just give ground instead.

@@GuerrillaMiniatureGames thanks for fast answer

They're there (19:50), and look great.

Ah yes my bad 😂 thanks

5+

Yes. They work pretty much as in older editions.

But they are much weaker it seems.

​@@richardpagel6959The Rules are like in previous editions. If the template cover the base of an enemy model fully it is hit automatically. If the template tipps the base partially the model will be hit on a 4+ Roll. If this is weak or not is up to your personal expectations.i Warmachine are unpredictable and should be in WHF but Dwarfs can be made them more effective by Runes. I collected and played Dwarfs since 2000. I saw Artillery ever as support for the Infantry and dont expect them to win the battle alone. Gladly it is not 40k

@@Folgeantrag I think you missunderstood. Artillery is weaker than in older editions, at least against single targets. Cannons and stone throwers not ignoring armor with their shots and just having ap 2 or 3. Good luck shooting at cowboys with 1+ or 2+ armor and 5++ ward and 5+++ regen... I never spoke about templates being weaker, I meant artillery in general versus single models. Like it is accepted fact already with most players.

It was NA. Just the size of the model.

@@OdinsVanguard I see thank you

No recommendation....use the model as you have it. There is the round Thorek or the old chariot base version. Since it doesn't move, they are probably less concerned with its base. War machines scattering from it will be fringe cases so guestimate their base.

@@SiliconSicilian Fair enough but you know someone will try and abuse something like that

@@LynxLord1991 Yeah. There will be "those" players but I'm hoping to surround myself with players who shower, speak in full sentences, and know how to have a good time playing a game. So far, I think I've got a good circle.

Can always march even with enemies nearby.

@@merijnreerink1799 do you also know what the veteran special rule does?

Dwarfs always had it

​@@lukeit7949It came up in one of the battle reports, I think it was re-roll for a failed fear test or something along those lines. I think it was specific to fear, not panic, but take this with a grain of salt.

​@thecappeningchannel515 now it's an option, which at LD9 base is decent to not have to buy

A mountain hold means a mountain fortress or castle. Its just a name for whatever territory the dwarfs still controls after having lost a lot to volcanos, goblins and skaven.

@@thecappeningchannel515 oh I mean what are the factions and main characters that are currently active? My understanding is the old world is a prequel to the lore I'm familiar with from Total War Warhammer and the adventures of Gotrek and Felix.

Your spells and abilities and such cannot affect each other. Suspicious allies get -1 leadership within 6 inches. And if they flee through your units, your guys might hack them down.

Special characters are shuffled into the Chronicles book each faction gets.

What is most important to make him tough are these 2-3 things in my opinion: shieldbearers for +3 wounds, rune of preservation for just losing 1 wound against killing blow and multiple wound attacks (especially when being played with shieldbearers) and that rune of parrying for a -1 to hit for the opponent as this leads to quite some stuff in the game with only WS 3 hitting him on 6s only and in general reducing the chance to hit him by 1 is awesome. To make him killy you will probably always need a great weapon for having high strength and decent armor penetration. Otherwise he always lacks both and you have to spend 2 runes already on a 3 runes only item to just increase both strength and AP so that why in my opinion the great weapon is the best choice. Sure, then he needs protection but that is easier to achieve with only 3 runes on armor, also because one defensive rune is a weapon rune as well. So it for instance depends on how the to wound table in ToW is, I have not seen this so far. Going masterune of adamant for toughness 10 + rune of preservation on shieldbearers with great weapon would be a super tough build when s3 and 4 models could not wound him anymore because of T10. for instance. Otherwise probably "just" going with 2 runes of fortitude for a toughness of 7 + a rune of preservation on shieldbearers and a rune of parrying on a great weapon and a rune of furnace as talisman is probably super tanky as well. Maybe just 1 rune of fortitude is also an idea and spending these points into a rune of swiftness instead for letting him first strike is an idea thou but depends if that is possible with a great weapon Or a rune of parrying + 2 runes of striking for a WS of 9 (all units with WS3-4 will just hit him on 6s and almost all characters also just on 5s) is a good start as well and the rune of preservation + rune of fortitude and a rune of furnace.

There are daemons. One of the things with Chaos in the old world is it spills out of a rent at the North Pole, as it ebbs back like a tide the Daemons can’t manifest outside of there and so the bulk of the continent doesn’t need to deal with them.

Dwarfs and High elves together fought off a Chaos invasion already in the warhammer background long before the "old world" time period that is TOW now.

@@richardpagel6959 - I know, but it seems like Daemons are not so common at the current time - they don't even have an army. But I suppose some of those Slayers could just be THAT old.

@@andrewbakescakes9684 They are probably not that old because dwarfs do not have such a long life span in WHF. My guess is they simply wander as Dragon Slayers into the chaos wastelands and sometimes even manage to (sadly) return as daemon slayers.

@@richardpagel6959 - Makes sense. I just thought there were few daemons in the current setting (compared to other times).

it's like they want to persuade you not to buy the 1998 models .__.

The slayer hero with multiple wounds d3 against behemoths and the rune for 2+ to wound them seems super sexy. Add some armor pierce and an extra attack or two and ot could bring down dragons single handedly.

Dragon and Daemon slayer got killing blow, Multiple Wounds (D3) against Behemoth(?) ans so. I dont think Troll Slayer ever suppose to be super strong. They kind of "new" Slayer. But the heroes should be strong yeah. And it look like they are strong as well.

I cannot speak about 8th edition WHF but compared to 7th WHF the slayer characters are much stronger now because they have inbuild D3 wounds against large monsters. So with a first striking rune and some other 2 weapon runes (parry rune will probably always be a good choice thou for slayer characters to have some protection) they can finally be of use. In 7th WHF slayer characters were complete useless in normal dwarf armies and were only a viable choice in slayer cult armies due to having slayer skills so compared to this edition, what is probably more fitting than a comparison to 8th WHF because ToW more tends to be like 6/7th, the slayer characters got an immense push. As slayers also had no death blow in 7th as well, even this rule is a (very) small boost BUT sadly, compared to 7th armybook costs of 11 pts, the ToW slayers with 13 pts (including additional hand weapons) seem a bit too expensive so far.

@@richardpagel6959 I agree with you, Slayer characters are pretty interesting (despite I think a bit too expensive). I'm a bit disappointed by the unit, but maybe it's just to figure out how to play it efficiently (small unit of 5 elements to screen and protect the big ones?)

The sound quality seems very poor in all of these videos, hard to listen to