Great video as ever. When I moved into my new house I ordered solar (SolarEdge inverter) and a Tesla Powerwall and Gateway. Solar is all in and running but no date for the Tesla kit. One way I believe I have improved on the installation is by adding an additional consumer unit, so have two designated 'Maintained' and 'Non-maintained'. The non-maintained has all of the big loads (2 x EV chargers, Oven, Immersion etc) which are dumped in the case of a power cut and the maintained is for the lights, kitchen (other than the oven), power for the WiFi, TVs etc. This way I don't have to worry about turning off big loads they are already gone. I had this setup in my previous house and it worked well - I wish I had brought the Tesla gear with me!
Personally I'd have everything connected in the Es board, the gateway makes this possible. Typically you'll get a notification to say the grid is disconnected, then you just take precautions to not overload the Tesla.
Nice configuration! But why do you both talk about the things how are Interesting us really - what are the costs for: - solar power module / How many need? - DC/AC-changer / How many 230V/400V it can change? - Tesla change unit / gateway - Tesla battery - extra parts (switches, copper lines, plastic cable channels) - work money (2,3,4,5 people?) How many hours for the full install? How many hour I must wait till you start? 4 days? 1 week? 2 month? Have I additional costs e.g. lawyer, government, aso.? How often I should change the full system? All 10 years? All 30 years? Never? Can I adding more parts e.g. batteries? Can I full powered only parts of my house - not every room need 24/7 power - so that I save battery power? Why the government not build *that* at own houses and helps house owners with free or cheap power prices? Some small villages in Germany do this for the own village people, some are really off-grid and produce more power as they need.
I have pretty much the exact same setup and have been running this for past 2 and a half years, but running with the solar panels split over an east /west facing roof. The bonus of the E/W split is 3 to 4 kWh most of the daylight hours. I find that in the summer months, that within 30 minutes of sunrise, my panels start to deliver 1 kWh and the same 30 mins before sunset. Downside is a bit lower winter solar ability. Unfortunately winter months are November to February, but you can still take advantage of cheaper night rate electricity. Before having our ASHP fitted we maintained an 89% night rate use, that really helps to reduce our electricity bills! I am currently taking advantage of owning the Tesla Powerwall 2 and am using it on a Tesla Energy Plan, where they pay me the same for any exports I make, wether from solar or the battery as well as them using my battery to fill overnight and discharge 10kWh between 4pm and 6pm to help alleviate the grid!
By having a backup power supply which comes online during power cut (like this setup with the Tesla Power Wall). All inverters have this feature, its for safety reasons.
Jordan is it me or are there tails going to the CU coming out of the wall with no conduit or external insulation? Seriously though, what a sweet looking system. You and Sam are pumping out such sexy content. We are all hooked on this seductive technology and you 2 are like pig farmers, feeding us hungry little piggies what we want to eat. Oink, oink, squeal! Thanks guys.
Hi Jordan, another great video -well done. I have commented on a few previous videos and wanted Sam to do my install but alas he stopped taking quotes etc some time ago so I had a local company do the install of PV and Powerwall. I have watched most of yours & Sam installs and the coverage of the components is great but there is not much about the Tesla app and how it operates. Even my install guys were unsure of the way in which the settings work and they have installed hundreds of them. After 3 months of trial and error and 3 calls to Tesla support I think I have cracked it and have agreed to help my installers produce a friendly user guide. The Tesla app essentially allows for Self-Powered ( which my installers said to use) which maximises Solar but does not import. Great in the summer. But as I approached the clock change and crap weather the question was how do I charge using Octopus night tariff. The second app option is Time-Based where you set up your low tariff charge time. But here is the amazing bit. Unlike friends who can force their batteries to charge to 100% on cheap night time you can't with a Tesla! If you have the Gateway its much smarter. Instead it determines how much it needs to import based on understanding your use/weather forecast etc. Some mornings I see it imported 4 KWH (21p with Octopus Go) the weather looks crap but later the sun comes out and hey presto I have enough battery power to runs the house. This morning I see it imported 10KWH and the day was worst in several days with hardly any solar. But the sun did come out and at 7pm I have 73% battery. My problem was a lack of simple user guides and because I kept toggling between these options I caused what Tesla support call Tesla drunkenness. In other words I never let the PowerWall learn my usage behaviour. The idea is that if with other batteries you force to 100% based on your weather forecast but if the weather improves you end up exporting to the grid for nothing. Leave it to the Powerwall and you never do that. Sorry for war and peace but I know Tesla Powerwall owners who still don't understand this. I think Sam does the very best install as it looks amazing. But if you don't understand how to set up the Powerwall it will look great but your still wasting money. Tesla support they haven't done a good job explaining the set-up options. Hope this helps because as winner sets in my daily electricity import (less standing charge) is currently £0.75p.
Would it not be better to have a battery on panel side so that you don't t convert DC to AC to DC. Seen other systems in Europe where power of only converts to AC when going to CU for normal use or export to Grid
I rolled my own version of this with a Victron inverter and Pylontech batteries, hooked up with my old 2013-installed SMA Sunnyboy. During the summer we basically don't import anything, and only the past month we've had to charge up a few kWh off Economy 7. We also have an iBoost that heats the water with excess that would be otherwise exported, basically never have to turn on the oil to heat water.
Excellent video guys, and the questions were lovely and detailed, well done. It has answered so many questions for me. 🥰 Surprised to see the consumer unit tails visible and the earth at a weird non-parallel entry angle. I couldn't take my eyes off it, even though I was trying. Definitely not like Artisan. Surely a new guy or different company that did that? 🤞 Any chance of covering them for my ocd 🤔😀
I have this exact system panels Powerwall and myenergi products and EV. It’s been installed for three years now and works really well I’m soon going to install a second battery and replace the mk 1 gateway for the Mk2 gateway that will allow me of grid use in the event of a power cut.
Hi Gr8 video explains very well how the system Is the 5 MWH the largest battery and is it possible to add more units to become totally self sufficient without the need to be connected to the Grid at all? In the future I would like to be not connected to any energy suppliers and be totally self sufficient Thanks
As an early adopter of this technology over 10 years ago - and living in South Africa with daily load shedding (60 hours of no power a week). I can tell you there are better, all in one units available. We just installed a new system last year, the Fox ESS - absolutely brilliant unit, has 4 internal batteries - 48v system with 10kw battery backup. Simple install - 2 wires for solar coming in, 2 wires for EPS going out. Everything, incl temp sensors, AC / DC disconnects, fuses, changeover switches are all internal. The thing looks like an appliance or fridge. We originally put in and used a 24v SMA system before, also good - but all fuses, switches, breakers and controllers were external.
Question . What's the max load the Tesla system can accommodate. Is there something in place so when an ev charger is attached it will not use battery as that will drain it really quickly.
@@gino2465 It has at least 2 ways to do so: (a) If you're using a Tesla Wallbox, it will integrate into the system. (b) You can always wire the wallbox to the grid side of the disconnect contactor.
How can you have a bit of flex from the 6kw inverter feeding the consumer unit ? That would have about 25 amps running through it . What size flex is it that is being used ? And how much energy does the inverter use in standby mode ? Does the flex go through a breaker in the consumer unit to limit overload that is being drawn from the house alliances
Buddy I live in Wales I get power cuts quite often lol. We are still part of the UK. That's why we have a standby gennty ready to power our home when are home battery runs out which does quickly . We also can charge our EVs on generator as life goes on and we need to travel still. You can have as many Tesla battery's as you can afford but they won't help when you only have EVs. Reality check
So when the tesla system is in off grid mode and the battery wall is nearly full. Will the tesla system still allow the car to be charged through the car charger? or is the whole system dependant on the tesla battery being low on charge to enable the solar to work.
Can someone clarify, but if i understand correctly this install and any other install with the Tesla Powerwall is an AC coupled system? I.e. the Powerwall has a inverter included
Over here in the US we would call this a grid tie system with battery. However it is advertised to us that a grid tie system must shut down if the grid goes down as to prevent backfeeding and injuring linemin. Most solar grid tie systems without batteries are not installed with contactors that is only something that has recently changed thankfully as more products try to copy the power wall type system. I have seen and heard so many stories of well we came home and we have these wonderful solar panels producing energy but none of our lights are on because the grids down, then they proceeded to curse the grid (or in some cases conspiracies) not realizing the system really isn't designed right. Yes stupid design.
Preventing the feedback to the grid is. I understand, why the gateway manages the grid disconnect ( island mode was mentioned in the video) . It is for this reason that you need a separate " earth" as the "earth" back through the grid will be disconnected too.
The Gateway is actually smarter than what's mentioned here in controlling the solar inverter during a power cut. With my Fronius inverter, the gateway will throttle the inverter down without actually turning it off and will match the load, all while keeping the voltage exactly at 230v (the grid is usually more like 240v). The other thing is how the powerwall is charged, normally it's fully charged to 100% then the excess is export, but in a power cut it's only charged to about 90% in the morning and it's held there until early afternoon when it's topped up to 98%....I assume this is done to allow extra solar to go somewhere if a household load in suddenly switched off.
The Tesla Powerwall has specific warranty conditions that would apply to use of the device for power price arbitrage, i.e. charge the battery from cheaper grid power and then export during peak price periods. In that circumstance the warranty period may also be limited by total export.
I wondered about making my inverter discharge the batteries to grid it's a simple case of making the grid CT think there's nothing passing it I currently have my heating supply running the wrong way through the grid CT to cancel some load to prevent bleed past consumption
Remember discharging your battery to the grid will cause you batteries to fail sooner as they can only have so many charge discharge cycles. (And the batteries are expensive).
Given the huge drop in 2nd hand values of Tesla cars , how about developing a system that can utilise the car as the battery storage for a house ? This may be a load of rubbish as I have no idea about the possible problems , just thinking cars have huge capacity , Powerwalls are quite expensive , Car prices have fallen off a cliff .
I do like the Tesla powerwalls, however they are getting so expensive now. For a 5KW inverter and 13.5kWh for about $13K USD, there are many other options at this point. You can do a very nice DIY system for more capacity for about half that price. However its all about the software really. In my use case I am more for standby power during outages as our power costs are so cheap here in Texas, solar doesn't pay for itself even at the 20 year mark. As the prices keep coming down, that may flip over, but right its not economical.
The power wall looks great but the meter tail look really bad, and all the cables in the corner too. Ball park idea of price Jordan please for the individual components and the brand of panels and spec. Please.
It's less about the Zappi---it just connects the wires, and one-way copper hasn't been invented yet---but about cars not having an inverter that can generate AC to be fed into the house.
Not on the powerwall side. The powerwall will just treat them just like any other appliance in your house that draws energy. probably a bit late but I would advise you set the powerwall as in time based control.
Is that a brown and blue live and nuetral just coming out of thr hole in the wall to the mains consumer unit with no outer mechanical protection such as kopex or flex conduit or maybe a swa . Shockingly bad .
What is the max cable distance run between Inverter/system and an AC Powerwall? Ie. Can you mount a Powerwall say 15mtrs away from the rest of the system.
Enjoy the videos and impressed with all your work. My 3 month wait is nearly over, so hope to get that quote soon :-) Although understand if it is a little longer.
Hi can you tell me is it possible to have a vo4 voltage stabilizer with a tesla powerwall without out any conflicts as i already have one fitted. Need urgent answer if possible
Question - do the DC Surge Protection Devices include a fuse like some AC ones do, or should there be an MCB? The fuse of MCB is to prevent the MOVs in the SPD going on fire if they have degraded after too many surges have been handled.
You may want to highlight that when installing the Tesla system there is a compatibility issue with some smart meters. The “tweaking” of frequency causes some smart meters to assume use when you are not using the grid. For example my Landis and Gyre meter thinks I have a permanent on grid base load of nearly 200watts which is higher than my day base load. It also causes under reading for export.
When explaining that the DC has the same earth as the AC. Does that mean the negative from the DC will be common with the MET? I get confused with “earth” connections with DC as some refer it to as ground? Which I’m taking as the negative connection? Anyone got a link to video or some text, explaining this. Thanks
I think I need the chaps from Oval to come and look at my gateway as it can take a few seconds to switch over during a power outage. I did wonder if my system was wired incorrectly as the new gateway was added about a year after the Powerwall was installed. I also have a separate consumer unit for the solar and Powerwall with neither using the fuse panel in the gateway.
Thank you for an interesting video Jordan and Sam. I wonder what consideration is given to the increase of source impedance (or, to put it another way, the reduction in PSCC) when the installation is disconnected from the DNO supply? Is this likely to impact on required operation times for the protective elements such as MCBs, RCBOs, etc?
@@zjzozn Correct - island mode. Live, Neutral AND Earth are disconnected by the contactor and switched over to the battery inverter output along with the local earth rod.
@@blower1 I am not sure that the transfer switch disconnects the DNO's earth. But depending on the nature of the Grid fault, the DNO earth cannot be relied upon during a powercut (Hence the need for an Earth Rod). There will also be a Ground-Neutral relay (Likely in the gateway box) to ensure RCD devices can still operate.
@@gavinnoname1424 Yes you're right - it has a neutral earth bond relay/contactor rather than it disconnecting the TNS/TNCS earth. The local earth rod is permanently in parallel (effectively making it another point of PME when not operating in island mode)
Great install. Quick question on lead time which I know is a nightmare going forward. When was the one in the video ordered? Just interested to know as mine has been order for a good while and still waiting.
Great video, have been looking at getting an install like this for some time now. However, I've never been able to make the sums add up. Given the very high cost to purchase and install, the ROI on saved electric prices (even at today's rate) doesn't seem to justify the outlay of the install (and I also run and Tesla EV with home charging). Am I missing something...?
It depends on your usage. You could start small and expand as you need. For this I would advise on enphase micro inverters as makes it so much easier to expand and reduces the space needed in the house thus making it a much more neater and simpler install. You will need to work out your needs but for something of this size you definatly would benefit from at least 1 EV, immersion heater and induction hob. Also dont get yourself to stuck with ROI's . Its also peace of mind in case of power failures and shielding yourself from things beyond your power (no pun intended).
Great video Jordan! I love the idea of solar energy and have been eyeing up a patch in my garden for a mini solar farm. However I’m a sparks worst nightmare, I love installing kit myself The point on the DNO and battery output confused me, what does the battery output have to do with them if you’re running of grid? 5kw isn’t a huge amount of power in the winter in a larger house. Could for example you have 2 batteries and run 10kw?
But if all your lights stay on and you can't see your neighbors, have no windows, never look at them, perhaps underground.... how do you know you're in a power cut? Well of course if you look at the app that's cheating.
Add a 220v pilot light wired to the non-essential DB board. If that light is on - ur grid connected. If the light is off but ur house is on, ur on battery. I actually wired one into the space in a plug socket for my mother - so she wouldn’t know if she was on battery. There are dual LED options these days, for fancier setups as well. Color changing etc…
Very informative,the Tesla systems do look impressive, but do come with a hefty price tag ,and there are many alternatives that will do the same job that are more cost affective, I’m surprised the customer didn’t have more battery storage,especially with the amount of solar panels on the roof ,it’s a real shame the government don’t offer a grant towards such renewable energy systems, especially how simple it is and proven to work ,and most of all cut the usage of fossil fuels, as we all know that is what’s needed .
Cut the use of fossil fuels? Wait 10 years till dump sites are full of the old panels … also, how you do know how the batteries are made? How lithium is taken out the ground and transported? How container ships burning diesel transport the batteries and units around the world. Sorry for the gripe - but, there is zero reduction of fossil fuels over time - there is the illusion of it.
"It is instant, the lights don't flicker..." I have had a Tesla Powerwall for a couple of years now, and can confirm that he clearly doesn't know how this works. The lights DO FLICKER. Things like computers and routers will trip off and digital clocks on appliances will all need to be reset. The flicker is probably less than 2 seconds, but still it is significant. If the house is already supplying the house it still flickers. Your man should have known this and should not be misleading people.
@@artisanelectrics All other systems I know (SMA, Fronius, E3DC) have a few seconds of black-out while the motor switch cuts the building from the grid. That’s why nobody advertises this as an Uninterruptible Power Supply, but rather encourage you to install a UPS for your IT switches & routers & Desktop PCs to bridge the seconds until the motor switch has done the cut-off.
@@artisanelectrics It is second gen. If you simulate a power failure by using the App then it synchronises and switches without flicker. A normal power cut causes the flicker. It's not a problem, and we are still delighted with the system. Tesla's ability to predict how much sunshine you will get the next day, and thus how much to charge overnight is incredible.
Mine takes anything from 10 secs to a minute to switchover during an outage. Sometimes it’s instant (just the flicker of lights as you say). I’m frustrated when it takes 10 secs or longer and we are in the process of troubleshooting with my installer and Tesla. Powerwall 2. Installed a few months ago (September 2022).
I looked into a Tesla powerwall and gateway, quoted £13k and my install was all self contained in a garage, single phase, no PV/solar system involved. That coupled with the wait time meant looking at other options. Some really interesting 'all in one' options out there..and coming next year.
Hi, iv recently installed for a customer a Solax system with 5KW inverter and 2x 5.8KW batteries along with a automatic transfer switch and 4KW of solar for 13K plenty systems out there that do the same, if you get solar with the install you get to save the VAT
@@gavinnoname1424 100Amp rated contactors I just build my own in a large dinrail enclosure , there are some all in one units on ebay and amazon some come IEC-60947-6-1 mark and a CE who knows if thats euro or china(betting on china)
@@dykey1234567 I did look around before for a seperate ATS, but could only find Chinese or Max of 60Amp. Ended up buying a Victron inverter which has builtin transfer switch (50amp) but you can have multiple inverters in parallel to have more throughput.
Theoretically yes but no as it's software tied, part of the commissioning process requires the gateway to see powerwall batteries and choses which phase to back up, sometimes automatically. if a third party battery is installed the gateway simply won't play ball so Tesla support say
What's that about "most systems not being able to charge during a powercut. There not being anywhere for the solar power to go if the battery is full and the grid is off? The mppt will just throttle back. Has nothing to do with "tesla being clever".
I think they were just confused. All approved solar inverters must turn off automatically when they lose grid connection to avoid electrocuting line workers. What Tesla and a few other systems do is disconnect the grid automatically and redirect AC power to the inverter to keep it switched on in the event of a power failure. It's basically a glorified ATS. It automaticlly switches the house to island mode. Very few battery systems are designed this way from scratch, although you can nearly always get to the same outcome. Victron can definitely do it and I think there are a few hybrid inverters that can switch to island mode in the event of a power cut. Tesla's is possibly the neatest implementation.
@@mondotv4216 Fronius, SMA and E3DC do it today in some of their newer systems, Kostal are said to deliver their version of Emergency power/Island mode in 2023. They are IMHO perfectly implemented, as they automatically switch on & off as needed. Not sure about Chinese inverters and their OEMs.
@@maxking3 Yes - I just meant Tesla's was one of the neater implementations because it's done that way from scratch and is inverter independent - so any system can use or retrofit a Powerwall. There aren't any other batteries I'm aware of that can do that. Most are proprietary or rely on the CAN protocol and a knowledgeable installer. A powerwall is quite expensive though.
@@mondotv4216 My E3DC is an „All-In-1“-Box connected with 3 phases to the meter and another 3-phase connector to the customer unit. That‘s quite literally all you need for 13KWp panels, 13KWh battery, emergency power and automatic cut-off from the grid. Pretty simple. (While they are owned by Hager, they shelved their UK plans after Brexit. Quite sad TBH, because it is a really neat solution!)
Looking into the Powerball since Feb this year, we were quote near enough 10k installed...now in November it's gone up to 15k and 18month lead time!! Anyone recommend and similar batteries for storage up to 20kw (modular)
I'm using the 48v EG4 batteries; currently at 20kWh, soon upgrading to 30... Then you have to *roll your own*, in terms of the transfer switch. I'm using the Growatt 5kW inverter, w built-in charge controller... These can be daisy-chained. The Powerwall app is one of its biggest selling points, besides the "integrated package" I got mine from Signature Solar, and follow Guru David Poz...
For modular take a look at the Victron kit. The inverters are stackable, have multiple MPPT's, central control panel. You then pair it with pretty much any 48V battery bank you'd like. Currently running 13.5KWH Battery with 5000VA Inverter. The Built-In 50A transfer switch means the whole house is protected during a power outage (Excluding the car charger which is connected on the grid side of the inverter) Approx £5k + Installation
Can’t you add an additional ’board’ with in house circuits that the amperage and 5kw max draw would be allowed, say lighting, sockets etc but excluding shower, cooker, car chargers etc? Thus still allowing off grid power cut use without requiring yourself to measure usage?
What then if the battery sets its self on fire? Is the a way to jettison it out side or if the fire department tryes to pull it off the wall can it be done with out being elecrocuted?
Unlikely. But did you know that you could suffer from heart failure at any given time? I suggest you never stray too far from a defibrillator and someone that knows how to use it....Just saying.
Just doing Victron ESS system, 12.6kWp ground mounted array connected on DC side by victron RS MPPT 450 / 200 charge controller via lynx distributor to Victron Quattro 8000 and 16kWh BYD LVS. With Cerbo GX.
The switchover is not instant - it is usually less than 500ms (around 100ms on average iirc). This is still slow enough to reset some computer equipment or a cooker clock etc. You can see this delay with a flicker with some LED lighting (but good quality stuff you may not see it) .Older incandescent lighting you definitely see it. The delay can however be MUCH longer if you are generating solar energy at the time of the grid drop out, the powerwall is nearly or fully charged and your self consumption is less than the solar output - under this scenario it can be many seconds, Tesla say this is to protect the battery as it waits for the solar inverter to shut down. This is an inherent problem with AC coupled solar inverters whose power output is not directly controlled. -Which brings me to another point that some people don't realise - the solar will not work during a power cut - it is grid tie, no grid = no solar energy inversion. You can only run off the battery during a power outage without any solar suplementing it.-
From what i have seen a Victron battery storage you can still make use of the solar if it is connected to the UPS output. The Victron will disconnect from the mains input in the event of a DNO failure
One thing we ran into was that the Utility "de-rated" the voltage, in which case the gateway disabled battery charging and forced us to use the Grid. We thought it might be one of those evil conspiracies between Tesla and the Utility. Seriously, though, if anyone can explain this further, that would be great. Our system was AC coupled, if that matters.
@@blobstrom Aye, i was just about to edit my comment as realised the Tesla powerwall can run with the solar in backup mode...many inverters can't. Still there can be a much bigger delay on switchover if solar is being generated at the time of a power outage.
Hmm ... the hospital "change" less 80 ms typically and my C=64 have had new start in opposite to my vintage monitor how 'clicks' only. This was in the 80's. Typical modern 700W till 1000W mains adaptors should 'hold' about 80 till 100 ms - but this not write in stone. For this are laptops are a great investment, they have build-in backup battery. Typical modern TV's should stop in this time and go off.
My switchover takes about 10 secs and sometimes a minute or more! In the process of troubleshooting this with the installer and Tesla but really not happy. Sometimes it’s instant! But more often than not, ten secs or more. 😢
Really interesting Jordan, Is there anything that will turn on high current appliances eg washing machines etc and when purely off the grid eg power cut island mode with the earth rod would you be going from a TN-C-S to a TT system if so would all the circuits have to be via RCBO/RCD protective devices as MCB's and fuses would not operate
Thank you for this very informative video. I am due to have a PW2 and Gateway2 installed next month to add to my Zappi2, Eddi and Solar PV. This is the same setup as in the example. The video has answered many of the questions I have been asking.
what sort of cost would this involve if you were to install the same stuff in a much simpler scenario? ball park figures rather than down to the last penny so solar , the battery etc thanks
I've heard these are quite expensive for the amount of KwH you get. I guess they are the "Apple" of the industry. I am a fan of the Victron Multiplus inverters. They each have a 50A transfer switch built in, and you can run up to 6 of them in parallel to increase the throughput. Pair one of those with an off the shelf 48V battery and job done!
@@therealdojj The other issue with Tesla is that their kit is proprietary. So you cannot simply swap out the inverter at a later date with a different brand. Inverters like Solis, Solark, Victron, Growatt all work with pretty much any battery off the shelf. Growatt Inverter and a few Pylontech US3000 Battery is a very popular choice for installers. Plus you could start with one Pylontech and buy more at a later date.
Interesting point about the feed in, bit of a piss take that their electric costs 30+ per kWh but your green generated electric belong the grid is worth 4p.
Every week things are improving for the better which is great, But when is the time to invest in all this fantastic technology? I only ask because my parents bought a Sony beta max video recorder because they where the best, And they were but who can predict technology, great video Jordan
