Starting that chop saw while overloaded is incredible, as they typically have a high startup current. Nice work capturing the difference a toroidal transformer can make.
I’ve been waiting so long for a video like this for the XW. Thank you! Impressive capabilities for an inexpensive inverter/charger. I think more people need to truly understand the impact of surge, specifically on those high frequency inverters like EG4, Sol-Ark, MPP, Grow Watt, etc. Seems like the XW can take it, no issue. Great video!
The grinding hum of success! This is a great video!! I have an off grid welding shop in a shipping container using a XW6048 with a rather small 400AH AGM battery bank. The XW6048 is over 12 years old and runs a tiny office, metal saws, drill press and a Millermatic 212 MIG welder. The XW line is rather bullet proof and has proven performance & longevity.
Great video as always David! I always love watching your load test videos. Nice to see the inverter meet it's rated specs (for the most part). Looking forward to seeing the imbalance test after firmware update!
Much appreciated David!!! Love the capabilities & variety of loads shown in this video, great job Sir! Also thank you for your service; Happy Veterans Day 🇺🇸
Is also a very good thing to know that manufacturers (Schneider in this case) deliver products that works as you'll expect and as they are advertised... 😎
Nice video, thanks for the effort. It is an impressive inverter. the MPPT 60 150 Charge controllers are rock solid as well, those I have had for several years now
Ok, that's it! I'm getting this inverter! This high end inverter should last for 20 years if taken good care of. Guarding any lightning or EMP strikes that is.
I think your conclusion sounds about right. The hardware engineers would have run the load simulations or actual tests and given marketing their numbers. The firmware engineers would've likely implemented it by the time release came, but full firmware tests or other processes wouldn't have been done on that new firmware by the time the units were ready to ship. Older firmware was probably tested earlier.
Schneider should team up with a few off grid guys like yourself. Solve issues, new software with easy DIY installs. They would sell like hotcakes. A quality option vs a growwatt.
I have my setup integrated w/Home Assistant. I do have the Conext Gateway and I use the TCPModbus feature in the gateway. Once you get the gateway online, you'll have a whole host of things you can do. The cloud feature is eh for control. It's main features are centered around on-grid reporting. But since I use Home Assistant and have a way to connect to HA from anywhere I have internet, I can report and control directly there as well do all kinds of graphing and reporting.
Needed a white wig mad scientist look for this. Great system and test. Our beast is still doing great. I had to rewire the array to boost the voltage. Been running 75v 82v Now 102 to 118. Pushing amps.
Effectivement les coefficients de fonctionnement sont assez impressionnant ! merci pour ce superbe test pour ce magnifique onduleur XW PRO 6848 de chez SIGNATURE SOLAR. 👍
Hi David, I think you should do another test to XW, being connected to the grid with a load of 9000 W and disconnecting the grid to see what happens. That would be a great test to show the people. Thanks.
Man I’ve been waiting on this video so long. Thanks David appreciate your good work and for people to make there mind up an what they should expect from inverters like this.
Wow.. nice... about a decade ago I was reading all of the specs on that Xantrex/Schiender XW system and was very impressed. IIRC, you can gang up to 3 of them in parallel for 18 kW continuous / 36 kW peak load.
LOVE THIS! Thank you for doing this ! Love how much time and along with clarity in your videos. I 100% am sold now on Schneider for my home in the future!! God Bless
I can say that I've been running my off-grid property for 2 years now on the XW Pro and it has done amazing! I have a 2nd unit I'm going to install once our house is done and we get all those 240V appliances online.
Excellent video! You should work for Consumer Reports, lol. I guess it is a no brainer that if you are off-grid and need a robust system especially for shop tooling or window acon or other DON'T buy a transformerless inverter unless you like a world of nuisance pain.
Thanks a lot for your great efforts, I strongly need the three phase operation using three split inverters. I am looking forward to your video recommendation
Both the Growatts and this Schneider have been able to power my whole house without shutting down. I'm happy with both. The Growatts are less money, but I have found the power from the Schneider is more stable, and better quality.
@@clarencewiles963 the latest firmware is data 18 Aug 2021 Release 120-240V Firmware 01.11.01 Build 0049 - current bits from their website. Amazing they haven't gotten the manufacturing process updated with those bits, unless they have had over a year's worth of inventory sitting in a warehouse. What firmware is currently installed - oh you will need the InsightLocal setup to determine that
LF inverters rock, My Victron has been running flawlessly for more than 7 years with basically 0 issues, the only thing I've had to do is firmware, all the other stuff like blowing out the housing to keep it as dust free as possible is just part of maintenance for me..
great video !....... i would like to see this beast after the update. the L1-N test maxed out is awesome. could we see a load ((minimal- 120v 5-10a) on L2)) while the L1-N test is going on. just wanted to see if that takes anything away from the max numbers you achieved. keep up the good work !!!
Great video yeah 👍🏻! Even though I don't understand everything was good to know some in's and out's about how it works... Thank you David... I'm trying to put a system to run a AC, some PCs and Tvs and some lights and other day to day devices when I move... And this info is awesome.
David, I am trying to select either Schneider XW-pro with its charge controller, insight home, etc. or a pair of Victron Multiplus II 48V 5000VA inverters to generate 120/240 split phase. I would like to see you comparing these two in terms of different metrics -cost, surge capability, power, easy to do configuration setting, difficulty of installation, etc. If I go with Victron inverter I will buy Victron charge controller, Cerbo Gx, Lynx distributor, etc. It will be awesome if you come up with scores of these metrics for two high quality products. Thanks. Nick
Both are high quality brands. Both will provide an exceptionally clean sine-wave, high efficiency, and low idle. You won't go wrong with either. The first question would be about permits and inspection. Schneider has set up their equipment to all be UL Listed. From the Inverter, PDP, wire-way, and charge controllers. So if you are worried about passing an electrical inspection, Schneider is the way to go. The second question is the maximum load. Victron 5000, is a 4,000 Watt cont. This means 8kW total cont (two units in parallel). That beats out a single Schneider at 6.8kW cont. I would love to test the Victron setup in a similar over-loading test at some point. But, I don't have the finances to buy a whole Victron system just for a video.
Good job on gathering this data. I will soon publish a video with a 120V MIG flux core welder. Sadly, the Renogy 12V 3000W fails to do it, the welder just shut down at the moment of the first arc. So I connected a 12V Magnum 2800W inverter which does it, it will fail after about 1 min of constant soldering. Now I decided to go 24V, so I just got another 24V Magnum, I have some stuff to solder, I hope it will last more than 1 minute! Also noticed the Stihl 120V 1800W chainsaw is more powerful and start more instantly with the Magnum. The 5000W and 8000W WZRELB inverters are dead (blown mosfets), so let's assume the test fails.
If you want that much power off grid and reliably give you power for 20 years then buy an outback radian or this. Period. These newer small lightweight transformerless inventers are terrible at holding voltage and frequency during heavier load applications. A good rule is for every 1 KW, an inverter should weigh at least 15 lb.
It appears as if your watt hour meters are reading the current from one line, and the voltage from the other. During the one line load test, the voltage on the line under test went up, and the voltage on the unloaded line went down.
On other 120/240 low frequency inverters, like Genetry Solar, also use firmware settings to limit power draw… so I am not surprised that this high end unit is supposed to limit in firmware.
Growatt Vs Schneider Inverter...I'm TORN.. I'm all out of faith, this is how I feel I'm cold and I am shamed Lying naked on the floor Illusion never changed Into something real, I'm wide awake and I can see the perfect sky is torn, You're a little late, I'm already torn.
Yes, I did. I've been running my whole property (house and garage) on this one Schneider inverter for several months. I did pick up a second one because I want to add an EV charger eventually, but I don't have an EV yet.
Glad to help. If you want an easy way to support the channel, please make your purchase through my affiliate link: signaturesolar.com/?ref=4_rHcgZ9x-TiF- They sell the batteries and Schneider equipment.
Are there any other inverters that can compare with such a low idle? That you can team them up makes up for there not being larger models. They do need a redesign for the exterior of the case. The interior design... I have not seen butter. I really appreciate that this is an inverter and not a combo unit with a charge controller. Do one thing and do it well.
Speaking to idle consumption only: I think the Schneider is the most efficient. Second would probably be the Outback Radian, then third is the Victron Quattro. After that, in fourth place, it's probably a toss up to the newer EG4 models and Sol-Arks, but I'm not sure.
Schneider has settings built in as default that kick off an alarm sooner. They are likely correct that firmware will fix. What I really want to see is its possible to load microinverters on the Grid-in AC side to get direct AC from PV panels (while off grid) . I called Schneider and they said they officially don't support the configuration but I don't see why it wouldn't work.
31 Watts, as measured on my Victron Smart Shunt. I show this in the video where I hook up this inverter: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-jZJZYjBuhnQ.html
What's the ambient temperature? Low frequency inverters are more affected by heat. Most of them have to be significantly derated as you get higher and higher above room temp.
now you can see the real size of it compaared to the first look overview where it did not look so huge like on your wall behind you. That is tall, really big compared to the Growatt in the background
amazingly I have seen videos where "so-called" solar experts have dogged the Schneider out and said Sol Ark was better....LOL.....I have never seen any of Schneider inverters go bad, only one DOA. Replaced very quickly
@@DavidPozEnergy so it looks like the transformer. Is connected to another electronic device. And one of the cables, looks like a black cable. Is disconnected.
In this video I show a photo of the inverter partially disassembled, so that we can see the transformer. The wires would come up front to the bridge board usually. But, the bridge board was removed as part of the disassembly. When the inverter is fully assembled, you don't have access to the transformer.
@@DavidPozEnergy oh I see, so I just ordered my Schneider electric, inverter from signature solar. Going to give it a try. So do you recommend cement board to mount it. I have both 1/8 and 1/4 and also have 3/4 inch plywood.
Hi. The manual says to mount onto a non-flammable surface. If you are mounting to a wood-stud wall, and the studs are 16 inches on center, then use a thin cement board. The mounting flange has holes 16"oc for studs. However, if you are mounting on a stud wall 24"oc, then use 3/4" thick fire-resistant plywood. The plywood will span more studs to spread out the load. BTW, did you happen to use one of my affiliate links for your purchase? Affiliate links really help out the channel, but only work if you buy through the link. Thanks.
I use this time of year as the time to prove how well my solar is doing. Heating my home with heat pumps takes some power and solar production is down. I find winter to be a learning experiance.@@DavidPozEnergy
Hello DTG, thx a lot again for such a tremendous expertise. I just can't get away from AGM batteries. I like them specially, the way you connect them. Call me "ancient" but if I ever go lithium, I would rather deal with discovery aes 2,000 amp or 6,500 amp per battery. (They too come in 24 volt configuration for the 2,000 amp and 48 volt for the 6,550 amp) You can even mount them upside down for proximity reasons. Once again thank you so much for all you do DTG. PS (Would you one day do a dual testing? Pairing 2 XW?)
Under light electrical use household lights flicker . Sometimes more than others when a large load was turned on like our dryer it would instantly stop . Other times when it was in grid bypass mode power would just turn off for a few seconds then come on. For no apparent reason. 10 days ago the power went out and 2p2 had fault code for communication. 2p1 will not even turn back on. We have been back on grid since. Can’t even get ahold of Signature Solar . We are researching for a quality replacement. I want something rock solid that simply works and I don’t have to constantly monitor or babysit . Thanks for your videos and feedback sir
It's not rated for 7.2kW continuously. It's rated for 6.8kW continuously. However, the rating is also dependent on temperature. I've been able to exceed some of the ratings because my garage is cooler than the manufacturer test conditions.
Victron makes excellent products. I've been very pleased with the Victron equipment I have. Something to consider, this Schneider is made for the North American market. When building an electrical system here, it has to be 120/240V (split phase) and UL listed in order to pass electrical inspections. Victron makes over a hundred variations of inverters, but only 4 carry UL listing, and those 4 are small, made for RV's. There are other manufacturers that make split-phase inverters with UL listings, but they all give up something compared to the Schneider. Some are transformer-less designs, which won't handle surges or imbalance like this Schneider. Some that have transformers are not nearly as efficient. I simply have not found another inverter that can handle a whole house, UL listed, split phase, and is this efficient. However, if you don't care about UL listing, (usually you are not pulling an electrical permit) then you could stack 2 Victron 120V models together to get 120/240V operation. That's a very good way to go as well
@@DavidPozEnergy thoughts on a Victron 240V EU inverter paired with their 110A autotransformer for split phase 120/120? Max unbalanced on the neutral is 30A, 10 less than the Schneider. I guess it's not all in one, but it's a nice solution
It's a great way to go. Actually, I think it's an excellent value. The best buy I've found is this 15kVA: signaturesolar.com/victron-quattro-48-15000-48v-input-15000w-output-230v-200a-charger-transfer-switch/?ref=4_rHcgZ9x-TiF- and here is the auto-transformer: signaturesolar.com/victron-autotransformer-120-240v-100a/?ref=4_rHcgZ9x-TiF- Personally, I prefer this method over buying two separate 120V Victron inverters. Just keep in mind that it's not UL listed. These are affiliate links, so it will help out the channel if you buy through them.
David, great video. Can you do a video doing a grid-shaving ability with this setup? I'd love to get one of these to work with my sunny islands on the AC side and peak shave my A/C usage. The sunny islands require some fudging of numbers using a microcontroller to spoof the LIBat voltage to backfeed the grid and documentation is nonsense as to how to accomplish this natively. I would prefer buying a pair of 6048's if they can ac couple and backfeed the grid to peak shave over a solark.
What sort of testing do you want to do? I have the smaller version of this AC coupled with a SolarEdge inverter. I can tell you my experiences. Ac coupling works just fine I’ve been doing it for almost 5 years.
Good evening David do you see a problem in running 3x SPF 5000 ES in parallel off of One battery Bank. It's a 13 KW battery Bank with one 150amp daly BMS.thanks
Parallel inverters need to run off a single battery bank. However, you will need at least 400 Amps available in BMS and battery in order to power a potential 15kW load.
awesome testing. I have seen no other inverter come close to Schneider inverters. Victron is nice but for the same money you can get Schneider and out perform Victron. You know why they have that 60 second 12k spike? Its for compressors that spike when first turned on or anything that spikes. Victron cannot do that. Nobody else can do that. I am dreaming of when I can have there inverts in my house.
Yeah, I also haven't seen this type of testing on another inverter. Victron also has a toroidal transformer, so I would have thought they could get similar results.
@@DavidPozEnergy I watched the guy who worked with Schneider to get there inverters to do what they do. Victron would make you add another unit to achieve what Schneider does or buy a much larger unit. I know you love that inverter. I so want one well 2 so when I build my garage I can power insane compressors etc.
What inverter would you recommend for a 5 ton AC unit in Arizona? If my math is correct, the unit will pull 5Kwh per hour, Solar will be 18KW of panels and 30KWH EG4-LL v2.
In the last video (Schneider Part 2) I showed the idle consumption of 31 Watts, as read on my Victron Smart Shunt. When I say "idle" I mean the inverter is ON, making a sinewave, but no loads.
How does this fare as a whole house setup? Like with vehicles slowly moving to 80amp home charging is that obtainable with this with 2x-3x inverters? Is this capable of a whole house AC coupled multiple inverter setup? Especially as we move more towards heat pumps for heating and heat pump water heaters? The allure with the solark15 is that there is no critical load panel. Can I achieve that with this or is a critical load panel necessary?
I've been using the Schneider for 2+ months running my house. However, I don't have an EV charger. The last video I made on the Schneider (part 2) I mentioned that I am hoping next year (2023) I can save enough to buy an EV. If I can pull that off, then I'll install a second inverter, but limit my home charging port to 30A with 1 of these inverters. I'm OK with a slower charge overnight. If you need a faster charge rate, and want to install a charger that manages to pull 80A from the 240V circuit, then you will need 19.2kW continuous rating. (probably more for the continuous duty rating in the NEC) That means connecting multiple inverters together. It can be done, just expensive. I've not tested the 15K Sol-Ark inverter, but I did test the 12K model last year and have videos on that. The 12K was a major disappointment to me. The 12K model is actually just a 9kW off-grid inverter (powering loads, from battery, while off grid). The 15K model is a 12kW off-grid inverter (powering loads, from battery, while off grid). My experience with the 12K model tells me that if I was to plan an EV charger with the known 9kW available while off grid, then I'd have to plan for a 30A EV charger, since a 40A EV charger would exceed the maximum 9kW. If I was planning an EV charger with the Sol-Ark 15K model, then I could buy a 40A charger, but I suspect a 50A charger would trip the 15K sol-ark. Notice, I said "suspect" because I have not personally that setup. I hope that helps.
I ran a pair of SMA's a while back. The SMA's are also built around a large toroidal transformer. Technically, each Sunny Island (yellow SMA) is rated for 5,750W cont., but that is pretty conservative. I took them up over 7kW (each) a few times and didn't have a problem. Since the SMA is 120V only, you need a pair to make 120/240V power. The Schneider is 120/240 out of the one inverter. But, if you plan on having 2 Schneiders, then I'd say the real-life experience will be the same as having 2 SMA's. In that, I don't think you would notice the difference day to day. However, the SMA's are a bit odd to program, but the Schneider is a little louder. I think both are good options.
Good video some good test but would really like to see the load transfer switch tested this was a known weak point in Schneider 48v inverters before and the only reason I bought a magnum 4448 I’m exclusively off grid and when charging with a generator and running loads it can be easy overload your generator when it cuts off that high current loan when it switches back to inverting is solely on the transfer switch
The internal relays are rated for 60A. I plan to make a video with my Generator, but can you help me understand better what exactly you want to see tested?
@@DavidPozEnergy when the generator shuts down whether it be turned off run out of gas or over loaded it should automatically switch over to inverting a good one you shouldn’t even see a flicker in the lights need to have it under a high load 60a is a lot I’m pretty sure that’s how much magnum energy 4448 is rated for I love it it’s been very efficient and I’ve haven’t been able to overload it but that’s what killed my last inverter it was a cheap Sungold generator was running it shut off while the well pump was going and it fried the transfer
On my property I built a house and a garage. The whole property is 100% electric. This means I don't have a wood stove, oil boiler, natural gas, or propane. I have to cover all my needs with electricity. I have an electric dryer, electric stove, electric oven, electric heat, air conditioning, along with the normal lights, microwave, etc. I am running the whole property from this one XW inverter. I don't have a separate "critical loads panel".
@@DavidPozEnergy Man....I Just do not follow how you do that with 60 amps. I guess you are pretty religious about what runs when.....but the HVAC is what throws me. Heatpump? Where are you geographically, perhaps your HVAC needs are less than mine.
Hi, David. Interesting testing. How would the SMA inverters have done? I see they are gone from your power wall. You've tested all the Chinese high frequency inverters, how about a test of a pair of Outback VFXR inverters? Would love to see how they stack up with the Schneider. I've been using and designing solar electric systems since 1978 and Schneider has developed a reputation for crappy customer service. How was your experience when you called about the L1/L2 in balance tests?
I'd be happy to test some outback equipment, but I've already spent too much this year on equipment. Maybe if there was a used set for sale? I called Schneider technical help line. I never had to wait more than 2 minutes on hold, and I've called them 4 times over the past 3 months.
@@DavidPozEnergy Thanks for the note! Yeah, all this stuff is expensive. It's not so much the basic equipment, it's all the little things needed to make it work. Like the $1200 conduit box, the Insight controller, battery monitor, and so on. Of course you don't need all those fancy things, but it sure makes life easier.
How is the Schneider with sensitive electronics? 5 percent THD is quite a bit more than other brands. Otherwise I love how inverter/trunking/mppts/and so on fit nicely together though.
I haven't noticed any problem with my electronics. I don't know of a way to test THD in my garage. The manual has a page dedicated to talking about RF noise and how this inverter meets the government specs for use around radios. Sorry I'm no expert when it comes to electronic noise.
I let the inverter cool down for a minimum of 1 hour between each test. I think I wrote that in in the video. The manual said 45 minutes, but I wanted to make sure it had plenty of time, so that's why I went with 1 hour.
@@DavidPozEnergy okay, in Europe we use 230 ac and 400 ac 3 phase for heavy load, so not that complicate 2 leg.. But its at cool projekt running 100 procent off grid
That shirt is from Shaw's Hiker Hostel. I built a small solar system for the owner (Poet) last year: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-oMH3IwR0ZC8.html
@@DavidPozEnergy i was just joking, the microphone was pinned right where the eye would be and it just looked strange. That's just how my mind is geared not anything against you 👍.
David, are you planning to connect solar to this inverter? Schneider has conflicting information on whether they support Lithium chemistries in a DC coupled configuration or whether they support communication with Pylontech type BMS (the type used in most server rack batteries you have tested on the channel). Do you have a Schneider MPPT 100-600 to test with? Thanks in advance if you read this.
The XW PRO is an inverter/charger. it doesn't have any MPPT inputs, so it can't connect directly to a solar array. In order to use solar, you either need to use an external charge controller, or a grid-tie inverter and AC couple. I am running a stack of EG4 batteries. These batteries are supposed to allow closed-loop communication with the Schneider Insight Home, but I haven't tested it yet.
I do have a question, how does it compare to your dual growatts and price to it. Like would it still be worth it if you had two autotransformers or larger auto transformer?
The pair of Growatt inverters I have total 10kW continuous. This is certainly higher than the 6.8kW continuous rating of the Schneider. However, the Growatts (and most transformer-less inverters) won't tolerate a surges the way the Schneider does. So it will boil down to your use case. The Growatts worked fine for powering my house over a year. And, so far, the Schneider is also powering my house without faults. I think the Growatts are an excellent value, a great way to get into solar. I view the Schneider more of a long term system. Something you can set up once, and then forget you are off grid for the next couple decades. Both have their place.
Victron and Schneider both make excellent products. I think the Victron 10kVA is rated for 8kW continuous, which is better than the Schneider. However, I don't think the 10kVA model carries a UL listing, so it wouldn't pass an inspection. I don't know if that matters for your application?
that was a really good review of that inverter . but for me that inverter is too over priced. I can get a fuel zero same capacity but higher surge for less than half the price of that inverter. so sorry that is just not for me .
David - need your assistance thoughts on a EXIDE GN8 GX2000 (2000 am hour) 48 volt battery bank that I am able to purchase. How do I contact you directly? I am on the EXIDE website trying to figure out how to test these batteries before I purchase them. Thanks for any assistance!
@@DavidPozEnergy I ask .because I spend part of the year in the Caribbean and I have 2 mini ac that I will to run of the inverter .and .5 hp sub pump and a refrigerator. But by the look of your reviews I think it will work
