Golf PRO'S OUTRAGED as PGA TOUR player CAUGHT CHEATING LIVE!! 

The video was obviously checked by officials & was deemed there was no penalty no matter what anyone said. That's all that matters.

@@mikerodrick2430 I agree I think it’s the wording which is getting people to think

To Back nine films it has got nothing to do with the wording, if you read rule 9.4 not show 26 point something which does not exist and has not for some years the rule in question it is quite clear. Is it certain or virtually certain that the player or his caddy caused the ball to move, nothing to do with addressing the ball grounding your club practice swing or any other nonsense. And under definitions in the rules book virtually certain is defined as 95% sure. It cannot be more simple is there a more than 95% chance that Harris or his caddy caused the ball to move. From the vision and audio of the telecast, which you conveniently omitted to show , and only from the telecast footage I have watched several times it appears that the correct decision was made. And from the footage I have watched to say that Hall was upset in anyway is almost slanderous. You must be watching something else. And to use the headline PGA Pro caught cheating is paramount to libellous

You are correct, this is a bogus story made out of thin air

@@back9films Yes, but you should retract your channel title and apologise...Just because you are somewhat grounded in a North of England accent, and claim somewhat of a golfing background, does NOT allow you to lie...

So how much is barely, quarter of an inch, half an inch, eighth of an inch or just as barely as to get it out of the the little depression it may be in? Why is it that people call a rule that they do not like or does not suit them “technical or nit picky”. There is no such thing as a “technical” rule. The rule is the rule nothing more nothing less. The new rules have even been rewritten to simplify, but clearly reading the comments posted here almost nobody has taken the time to read. The rule in Question is 9.4. There isn’t even a rule 26 now and hasn’t been for a few years. Learn the rules and play by them if you wish to ply in any competition or submit a card for handicap, I will almost guarantee you that abiding strictly to the rules will help you rather than hinder you. If you don’t want to play by the rules, fine, no problems but just play social golf against others who are “cheating” and not against others who do play by the rules and respect the game of golf.

The lie of a ball can vary tremendously in just a quarter inch of movement. There are certainly some nitpicking rules in golf, but this is NOT one of them.

David I agree, the ball either moves or it doesn’t, I am asking those idiots who say it DOESN’T matter if it moves a little bit. Tell me what they consider “a little bit” to be. If you are going to accept that it doesn’t matter if it moves a little bit everyone’s little bit is going to be different, you might as well make it preferred lies everywhere. This video is disgusting. It is clickbait and so are pretty well all of this channel content

@@glenwood9190 totally agree with you. Rules are just rules. Play by them or don’t play.

⁠@@glenwood9190this is the trouble with online “conversation”. You can take a simple statement from someone like that of the original commenters. Then say, “My word!! Someone has made a terrible error and I need to… No I must correct them so they know the error of their ways and just how stupid they truly are”. When in reality he/she was just making a comment and was in no need of a lecture. Thank you for your information, but might work on the presentation as not to come off an uppity prick.

Absolutely correct observation Brian....this clown should apologise to Harris English specifically and to viewers generally, and he should STOP his reporting antics.

This guy is a fucking YAHOO

100% right ..this clown is just looking for hits..

Several things at play here. 1). Are Scottsdale Golf and Puma happy with their logos front and centre on this contentious video. 2). Players use language to benefit themselves. How many players have been in real bother and claimed they were going to play the shot left handed, low and behold they find a rabbit scrape and get a free drop?! 3). Ask the player who missed keeping his tour card based on the outcome of such decisions.

This thread had me weak 😂

Reed IS a Cheating scum bag doesn’t need branding again

Yes Because of his reputation

Exactly

@@58nomad Golf channel played a big part in hurting Reed's reputation. That's why he's suing them.

@LRN_News Reed hurt Reeds reputation and the golf channel reported it.

I totoally agree!!

Totally agree! Why put so much pressure on the players? In this case, will it really make any difference other than shame on the other?

Another rule, away from this one is having to play from divots that should go away. It's really no different than fixing pitch marks on the green or fixing spike marks. Those who played in the morning had perfect greens & a divot is no different even tho it's during the entire tournament, although, few divots on Thursday is another benefit. I just don't like players being punished, in a sense, for something out of their control that could affect the final outcome. They should be considered ground under repair. On the other side of the coin, our bunkers are too easy for pros.

The correct rule and the rule the referee used says just that, when it is known or virtually certain that the player or their caddy caused their ball to move. Under definitions in the rules virtually certain means 95% or more

I went back and watched the incident again to see what I missed first time I watched and thought nothing of the situation. what vision were you watching, to say Hall was effected in any way is nothing short of liable and Harris described what he did from looking at the vision. And the correct ruling was made.

And I ground my club vigorously for a different reason lol

For fucks sake, what is wrong with you people, the rule is the rule, it is YOUR responsibility to make sure that you do not cause the ball to move unless making a shot. And please do not bring up you can do it on the green, it is a different set of circumstances and the rule was changed to cover those situations. Just play by the rules and play the ball as it lies, it is called rub of the green. If you don’t like the rules play social golf and no one gives a fuck or find another game.

You are wrong! The rest of the world may have seen it! He is aware of cameras around and passed the bacon to the rules official!

are you his eyes and brain? its inconclusive. maybe he was on autopilot. or thought nothing of it or didnt register at all until he was at address

And Jack nicklaus's book he said if at all possible he would not ground the club at address so he wouldn't cause the ball to move. The fact is your club should coming into the ball with some air before it would make contact (almost all shots) if that makes sense.

Great point. That rules official in Dubai literally let Patrick Reed define the entire process of identifying "his" ball in the tree. If it was me, I'd have asked him to show me the golf balls in his bag to prove his identification marks matched the ball in the tree. The whole thing was even more embarrassing for the official once we learned they weren't even looking at the right tree.

Which would explain why Koepka lost the Master's on the final round due to the cheating incident between his caddy and Gary Woodland's during round #2.

Yes I do believe in the golfing Gods.

Same with Reed there's no proof of him cheating

I do tend to agree with you in most of these circumstances. However I am curious as to why English didn’t notify someone at the precise moment it happened. If we can believe what the playing partner said, he had addressed the ball before notifying him. And the video footage I think would certainly show whether or not he had addressed the ball before notifying his partner. But apparently there was a hot mic that picked up his voice saying the ball had moved? When did this happen??? I can’t find video footage anywhere.

@@Pseudify The same problem for me. No video anywhere. Anyway: 100 % in agreement with what you're saying. However. My view is this. The playing partner surely has his focus on his own task. It's pretty easy to misunderstand and (this is my own experience) People who tend to see cheating when it actually was something else for the most part have a tendency to cheat themself. (I don't know this guy at all.) Therefore I always take others' testimony with a grain of salt. (We don't know their presumptions and can't judge how trustworthy their observations are.) The video would have been perfect. However; Up until we have that one I do trust the player's statement.

The movement of a golf ball by a small fraction of an inch can change the lie dramatically. And given that he was up against taller grass, even more so. This is no trivial rule!

Absolutely Correct!

The rule should be changed to never address within a range that may cause movement. I.e. any lie with a lot of nature behind the ball. Then only swing like in the sand.

I agree this is a great point!

Fantastic, knowing and playing by the rules more often helps than hinders.

It’s Rule 9.4.

I know right it is silly when you think about

So you are saying a little bit is alright. Tell me how much is a little bit? 1mm, 2mm, 5mm or just a little to get it out of the depression the ball is lying in. The ball is hanging over the edge of the hole it is only a little bit should we count that as in? There is only a little bit of the ball in the penalty area that’s ok?

No penalty only on green.

use the honor system until it has been proved otherwise, in which case make your own judgement as to if it was an honest mistake or not so we know if we can continue with him on the honor system.

Tiger was legally allowed to have that rock moved. It is in the rules. The rock was loose so could be moved. How many people have to do it makes no difference.

@@BatMan-oe2gh Yeah I get that it’s in the rules, the question comes down to how you define “loose” if it takes that many to move it.

@@stephenpage7974 I didn't make the rules, and even I thought Tiger pushed the rules in that instance. The rules official deemed it was a loose impediment, so Tiger could do what he did as the rules official green lighted it. Cheers

If you are reporting what the Pro said precisely he is correct, apart from the fact of using the word address, the definition of the term moved is as follows, “When a ball at rest has left its original spot and come to rest on any other spot, and this can be seen by the naked eye (whether or not anyone actually sees it do so). This applies whether the ball has gone up, down or horizontally in any direction away from its original spot. If the ball only wobbles (sometimes referred to as oscillating) and stays on or returns to its original spot, the ball has not moved.” So it is not only at address, it could be when trying to remove a twig or stone, or anything that is defined as a loose impediment. It could be an outside influence, another ball, animal etc. The issue here is not whether the ball moved, it did, that was undeniably established. The issue is who or what caused the ball to move. Rule 9.4 is the rule that covers this situation. What is misleading, no incorrect, is this channel displayed a rule 26 point something which does not exist and has not for some years. So in short, for the player to receive a penalty under rule 9.4 it has to be known or virtually certain the player or his caddy caused caused the ball to move. In the rule definitions “virtually certain” is 95% or more. From the broadcast audio and vision I have seen, and from a reported further 60 mins of investigation by tournament officials, it appears to me and obviously to them that the correct decision and outcome was made. Good golfing

@glenwood9190 yeah I agree with everything you have said and that was what the pro told me as well, though it was a while ago when he said it. What is really misleading is when the guy said about the ball moving but never mentioned how much it moved or if it moved off it's spot

Balderdash!!! Rory didn’t poke a hole in the side of the dirt wall of the bunker and then push an extra ball or his original ball back in the poked hole to then claim it was embedded.with Schefler’s ball also in the sand of the same bunker. We are expected to believe that he, Schefler, would not notice because Rory has the slight of hand of a Vegas magician. The video clearly showed Rory digging the very embedded ball out of the wall. This is a totally fabricated story, PERIOD!!

For fucks sake, English told the referee the ball moved, he told hall it moved, there is no dispute from anyone the ball moved, the issue is not whether the ball moved, that was established, the issue is what or who caused the ball to move.