Good and Bad Sides of Islam 

in a fascinating way Islam's impressive traditionalism showcases how Christianity refines its true followers by giving us so much freedom we don't deserve. Most souls abuse this freedom and degrade over time, so in the end indeed only the true devoted servants of Christ are exalted above all, in pure voluntary love for God. Freedom by essence is the choice to follow God or an idol - in all things. I get chills when I ponder it, frankly. Our Lord is truly too kind to us and is Love itself.

The ravaging of Christianity is already working its way into Islam. They're just a few decades behind the west

* correction...if you ARE the type of person who acknowledges fear of God but knows that He prefers that you obey Him out of love...

Keen observations

nice analysis. I, too, have read the Quran and I agree that Islam commands its followers to believe so that they're free from punishment. Many times punishment is reminded of in the Quran. Actually, Allah gives choice, but its very limited and it will always end in punishment. Muslims do their tasks in fear of the punishment. This lead me to leave Islam because how could be a God worshipped when constantly he is scaring you with severe punishment. I also believed (without knowing Christianity, at that time) that God is love. And after some time, I thankfully and finally not only found Jesus but also understood him. Many people learn about Jesus but don't understand him. And there are many Muslims out there who are aware of the shortcomings of Islam but they can't openly talk about it or acknowledge it openly with each other otherwise they'll be called grave sinners and blasphemers. What is good about Islam is that women are stressed to be respected, especially a mother. A woman cannot be openly harmed because its un-Islamic. Whereas other old cultures must have been treating women lowly. There might be more good things, I might be forgetting them =, right now. But overall, I agree with your analysis.

@@farwahbatool6247 Doesn't stop women being murdered due to honor killings.

No, That's just a Christian comment (a comment without any logic)

@@eho6380 I don't think it it is without logic. Islam encourages almsgiving. So does Christianity.

@@robertwaguespack9414 And it existed AFTER Christianity, and relies on several texts, reveres the Virgin Mother of God, etc. No good can come from anything unless it comes from the One Triune God.

Robert Waguespack Christianity is an Old Testament and Islam is a new testiment updated with new rules from our messenger allah

@@robertwaguespack9414 So? Zoroastrianism was the first monotheistic religion. Does that mean that Christianity and Judaism are simply a plagiarised religion?

Muslims also thought Christians believed Mary was part of the Holy Trinity

@@mickeymick2861 Muslims will deny that though. They'll also deny that Mohammed learned about Biblical figures such as Abraham, Moses, and Jesus from local Jews and Christians. But references to those figures would be meaningless to the pagan Meccans unless they were familiar with these stories as well. Even so, those stories are pretty garbled - in the Quran, Haman is one of Pharoah's advisors, who Pharoah orders to build a tower that sounds a lot like the tower of Babel.

@@mickeymick2861 absolutely. Mohammed was explicitly sent to the Arabs who had never been sent a prophet before... except the Arabs were descended from Abraham and Ishmael (both prophets in Islam) and the Quran also describes the Arab prophets Hud and Saleh.

@Mickey Mick I don't remember exactly but around the time of Muhammad there was a local heresy which allegedly worshipped Mary as part of God

@@seronymus the Collyridians

Yup

Yes, the amount of respect that Muslims have to the Quran is admirable, Even though the Quran is an incoherent mess Now,Now, Jesus doesn't care about outward appearance, for example, you can coat a Quran with beautiful Gold patterns, but it's holiness is nowhere near the Holiness of the Bible

I agree, here. A little bit of decoration would pop them out of other pile of mundane books. A friend is disagreeing with this, but I think if not doing this with all Bibles, but only a few ones. Those who might like it that way would be delighted to have a Bible like that :)

At least I kept someone up all night, rowr wink cough of death

Love from the Philippines, brother! Egypt is a beautiful place.

بارك الله فيك يا فارس. عندي حب كبير للكويت و شعبها. May the Lord guide you

You're very right. I think the legend of Saint Boniface cutting down the tree to the idol Wotan in front of a crowd of Germanic warriors one of the most badass in Christendom. he also had very intelligent correspondence with the Pope at the time, his letters are fascinating. May he pray for us and especially Germany!

@DonutKop The Church Fathers already have commented exclusively that the precise date of the Nativity doesn't matter, God appreciates jubilation and worship itself and isn't bound to the spacetime He created.

@@DonutKop based on what evidence?

I totally understand and relate, if you want personal advice just relax and put on some byzantine chant on this site as an aid, try to clear your mind and think in a transcendent manner, try to ponder the mystery of grace and the Trinity as your pray, start even with just the Jesus Prayer mentally. I am a horrible person at praying but I get better over time I think, it is no problem and know God loves you the same, I highly advise looking up orthodox prayer videos here too :)

Contemplation on the mysteries, Gospels etc. helps tremendously.

I often whisper quietly since I get distracted when I hear my own voice

As Christ our Lord tells us many times, those oppressed by injustice and the wicked powers of this world will be blessed for eternity in the life to come. Rejoice!

Amen.

Agreed.

Very very few things are pagan per se, and those that we "take" aren't worship of pagan deities. :-)

thanks

A temptation indeed :D

I used to use the analogy of the Trinity simply being "the arm, legs, and head the makes up the whole that is God" but then I realized that is heresy since the Father, Son, and Holy spirit are fully God. So I think you simply don't explain it, since God is not a "being" in the sense that he exist within creation. He is the Creator and therefore is not bound by the rules that binds creation.

The Trinity cannot be fully comprehended in a rational manner by our limited human minds. Every example, including the famous ice-water-vapor and shamrock analogies, when taken too far becomes a heresy like modalism/Sabellianism. That is part of the mystery that humbles us. We should only be taught that there are three Persons in one Essence, being distinct yet united as one God beyond eternity.

"One of the simplest ways of explaining the mystery of the Trinity is given by St Spyridon of Trimithund at the Council of Nicaea (AD 325). According to tradition, when asked how it is that Three can simultaneously be One, St Spyridon responded by taking up a brick and squeezing it. From the soft clay in his hands a flame showed up while simultaneously water flowed downwards. 'As there is fire and water in this brick', said Saint Spyridon, 'in the same way there are three Persons in the one Godhead'." Refer to www.sourozh.org/orthodox-faith-texts/how-to-explain-the-mystery-of-the-holy-trinity.html Go to this site and you will see much more. I converted to Orthodoxy from other forms of Christianity over thirty years ago and I very am glad I did because Orthodoxy with total accuracy and integrity points to the mystery. Men can really explain nothing without using alot of metaphors that will all breakdown in the final analysis. Science is constantly changing its theories and its metaphors as more facts are learned. Likewise, Trinity is a revelation from God and He left this and many things basically a mystery to man and it is good He did because man needs to be humbled. Look at the damage and carnage man has done with the limited brain he has. If man was given the capability to understand everything, his evil would be limitless. Accepting what scientific methods reveal to you but with and anti-dogmatic view will get you good science. The same with faith, you must practice, experience, and encounter the mystery so that you can connect with God on a continual level. One God fills absolutely everything that exists everywhere and at all times as one coherent reality so there is no division The Trinity exists as one in essence (Homoousion (/ˌhɒmoʊˈuːsiən/; Greek: ὁμοούσιον). The "three hypostases in one ousia" is the epitome of the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity. That is Only One God existing in three distinct hypostases/personae/persons. The same goes for understanding the reality in the hard science of quantum mechanics in physics because scientist often have the major difficulty of getting rid of common sense because common sense makes a lot of mistaken assumptions. This is why learning about quantum mechanics is a good metaphor for beginning to understand how God operates. Both journeys are extremely humiliating and fruitful at the same timel. Refer to this pure science site and you will get a real eye opener www.science4all.org/article/quantum-mechanics/ Bottom line: Human words cannot even convey the true reality of existence. The human EGO that insists it can figure everything out has caused more misery and corrupt dogmas that any other sin.

@Francis L Mayer thank you very much for that enlightening explanation bless you

We have a body a soul and a spirit, we are a trinity

@@zainkazi650 The YT channels "Christian Prince", "Apostate Prophet", Bill Warner's 2 channels ("CSPI" and "Political Islam"and "Acts 17 Apologetics" can and do refute Islam! Acts 17 Apologetics (David Wood) is absolutely savage (biting scorn and satire regarding Islam.

Their chant is so beautiful that it doesn't need instrumental accompaniment. I'm Roman Catholic and I personally don't like pipe organs/instruments in Churches. A capella is my favourite.

Just so you know some parishes in Western countries do incorporate organs although this is controversial and usually by priests who aren't very educated, I also think some Western Rite parishes use it too

I do like the chants, but I can't take a whole liturgy with no instruments. God gave us the ability to create devices to make music with for those of us who can't use our voices effectively.

I agree in particular that instruments are an excellent display of European genius and innovation, as far as organs and such are concerned. You may be interested to know that the Ethiopian Orthodox Church uses native African drums at some point of their very long full services. I'm sorry I don't know too much else though I'll research more

seronymus The organ music isn’t like what you hear in Protestant Churches though. No huge pipe organs or solos. Our organ you can hardly hear. It’s right next to the choir and keeps the tones so that the choir director doesn’t have to hum out the tones for everyone. Why doesn’t anyone protest the use of drumming inside Churches in Africa? Or dancing? We get pretty stuffy and set in our ways as though God really cares if an organ, drum, or movement happens in Church.

The biblical text for the love of God is: “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might” (Deuteronomy 6:5). “All your heart” in this context refers less to the emotions than to the mind: in the biblical idiom the intellect is located in the heart, the inner aspect of the human personality. “With all your soul” means “with all your being”; the Hebrew nefesh, translated as “soul,” really refers in the Bible to what we would call the person rather than the soul. But in early rabbinic thought the love of God is understood less as an attitude of mind or as an emotional response than its advocating a course of action. The rabbinic Midrash known as the Sifre, for example, has the following comment on the verse: “Take to heart these instructions with which I charge you this day (Deuternomy 6:6).” “Why is this said? Because it is said: ‘You shall love the Lord your God, with all your heart’ and I do not know in what way God is to be loved, therefore it says: ‘Take to heart instructions with which I charge you this day.’ Take these to heart and in this way you will come to recognize God and cleave to His ways.” In this passage, typical of the rabbinic emphasis on doing the will of God, on the deed, love is understood to mean the practice of the precepts and the study of the Torah . This leads to, and in a sense is identified with, the “recognition” of God and attachment to His laws. There are passages in the rabbinic literature which do speak of the love of God as an intense longing for God’s nearness. But the main emphasis in the rabbinic literature is on love expressed in the deed. Love of God in the Middle Ages The medieval thinkers, on the other hand, Saadiah, Bahya Ibn Pakudah, Maimonides, and the Kabbalists, do place emphasis on the mystical love of God. Maimonides devotes the opening chapters of his Mishneh Torah to an account of the marvels of the created universe, in the course of which he remarks (Yesodey Ha-Torah, 2.2): “How does man come to love and fear God? No sooner does man reflect on His deeds and on His great and marvelous creatures, seeing in them His incomparable and limitless wisdom, than he is moved to love and to praise and to glorify and he has an intense desire to know the great Name. As David said: ‘My soul thirsts for God, for the living God’ (Psalms 42:3).” The Kabbalists not infrequently use erotic symbolism for the love of man for God, this being compared to human love between a man and a woman, but the pure love of God is often described without any erotic overtones. The Zohar (iii. 267a) understands the love of God to mean that the one who loves is ready to sacrifice everything he has and even life itself in his love for the Creator. “One who loves God is crowned with loving-kindness on all sides and does loving-kindness throughout, sparing neither his person nor his money.” In Hasidism, The Othrodox Judasiem I subscribe to namley CHABAD LUBAVITCH the love of God generally means completely disinterested service of God with joy in the heart. Tales are told of a number of Hasidic masters who believed that they had forfeited their right to heavenly bliss. Becoming aware of this they declared that now they would have the opportunity of serving and loving God without any thought of self, not even that of the self enjoying the nearness of God for ever.

In christianity God's love is what makes him merciful, I'm not sure where the paradigm shift is?

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts here.

@Solomon Bacharach Muhammad (pbuh) didn't know, because he isn't god, only god knows the future, although he is promised heaven. The point is, no matter how many prayers you do, ultimately your ability to enter paradise is based on Allahs mercy. Good deeds don't equate to paradise, its gods mercy that will allow you to enter. There is a saying of the prophet, that a man on judgment day will be asked if he wants to be judged according to his deeds, or according to gods mercy ; the man decided to be judged according to his deeds since he assumed he did a lot of good deeds, then god placed his deeds on one side of the scale and on the other side, god placed the blessing of eyesight that was given to the man, then it turned out that the blessing of eyesight far outweighed all the good deeds the man had done. Then god ordered for the man to be taken to hell, the man then said to god "I want to judged according to your mercy", the man was then admitted into paradise. This teaches a very important lesson, that paradise is ultimately at the hands of gods mercy. That being said, we are encouraged to do good deeds because we will be rewarded, we pray because its both a good deed and an obligation. Prayer in islam is a lot more dynamic, the obligatory prayers have to be done in arabic, but then any other supplications made to god can be done in any language. Anyone can look up to the meanings of the arabic, they can understand what they are saying. Praying with humility and from the heart is more important than strictness and rigidity.

@Solomon Bacharach Just to be clear, arabic is my native language, so I do understand what I am saying. As for the first question regarding what god will ask, you are correct, that is the first question. But then other questions will also come up. Btw, the prophetic saying I have mentioned before is one of the accounts that will happen, it does however illustrates what I was talking about the mercy of god being the ultimate deciding factor. As for the verses you have mentioned, we have a similar idea in the Quran that in chapter 107 - Kindness, God says Quran - 107 Kindess Have you seen the one who rejects faith out of hand? That is the one who repels the orphaned, Who, for feeding the needy, makes no demand. *Woe to the worshipful who bow and stand,* Who willfully miss prescribed prayers, and Who would be seen praying, and Yet, refuse the smallest kindness with a heavy hand. Regarding Mathew 6:5, I think the point is the hypocrites are not sincere in their prayer since they are doing it just to be seen. Similarly in the Quran, it is very clear from this chapter that those people who are seen praying frequently and in front of everyone are not doing it sincerely since they are lacking kindness to the orphan and refuse to be helpful to those in need. Regarding Mathew 6:7, I think the key word is vain, and the fact that people are doing it just to be heard as if they are of the righteous. When muslims pray, we pray in a low voice, so as not to disturb others, when in congregation, the imam is the one who reads out loud. Now, I mean this in the kindest way possible, but trying to use biblical scripture to prove a point to me isn't going to be very effective since I don't believe in the Bible, that being said, I do thank you for sharing your opinion :) Regarding the rigidity of prayers, I think I understand what you mean by having to do it at certain times and in a certain way, the point is unification of muslims, that we all glorify god in a way that is pleasing to him, we praise god 5 times a day because we are thankful and we need to stop whatever we are doing just to stand and praise god, in humility and from the heart.

@Solomon Bacharach As I said previously, anybody can look up the meaning and memorize the meaning as well as understand the meaning, I think that you are making a generalization that "his followers are mindlessly", you can't make that assumption, they could be doing it because they feel closer to god and that is how they want to express their spiritual need. The dua they make can be as long as they like, they can beg and cry out to god with immense passion in their own language. At the end of the day, we have our religion and you have yours. I think that we should embrace our differences and appreciate that we all (christians, muslims and jews) try to please god and each of us find spiritual solace in the way we worship. Peace be with you :)

I actually come from the Middle East and I mean absolutely no offense by this, but your post reeks of "basic Western white girl". Islam is a repugnant heresy that has damned countless souls over the centuries. Heresy is not beautiful. I know your culture encourages fetishistic xenophilia, but Islam is fundamentally vapid in all but its most fringe forms like Alawite. Trust me on this, I know it first hand. And just because, again no offense, I can sense it by your tone - you do not want millions of Muslims pouring in your country either. *Do not learn this lesson the hard way.* focus on Christ and defend your nation.

And fyi I forgot to add - there is nothing to "grow as people" from Islam. You are basically saying Christ is insufficient for your own wellbeing, which is wrong. There is no exception to this. Islam is a disgusting, demonic cult whose only benefits were purely ancillary and tertiary on a practical level, like uniting primitive tribes. Westerner, please stop this pathetic psychosis you guys have about other cultures. Some are just barbaric and inferior, full stop. Your education brainwashed you into an absolute equality cult.

I'm sorry for the harsh tone in both replies but I notice Western white women especially are very foolishly naïve about the world and want to open up their countries to the entire world, including hellholes I've been to where quite frankly you would end up raped and stabbed and your corpse thrown in a river. WAKE UP.

Wow. I appreciate your brute honesty and thank you, western culture is incredibly guilty of fetishism, and I appreciate telling us what we need to hear. Shukhran habibi

However compared to Christianity, Islam was a terrible influence on the morality of the people it took. Islam also has and encourages pedophilia and so forth, which isn’t encouraged in Christianity. That, with both Islam and Christianity being international, expansionist faiths, makes Islam infinitely worse than Christianity.

Drunk O the paedophilia is a common argument from the Christian side, but now you’re not bashing Islam but the 7th century Arab culture.

I understand the depravity of medieval Arabic culture, with similar shit being present with the Christians, the Orthodox Byzantines for example, who commonly blinded and castrated their own kin as a punishment. However, Islam is more locked in with the Arabic mentality, which is terrible for the religion. Christianity is more compatible for different cultures.

Mickey Mick I more see it as a radical simplification, trying desperately to come to the root of it all, which, in his eyes, was pure monotheism with nothing attached. Sure he knew and blended all those religions together, but he took only one ingredient, the one God. He lost the diamonds with the Christian concept of the Trinity, but he didn’t even know lot about Christianity, he thought that Christians worship a man, and that the trinity is composed of God, Jesus and Mary..

Drunk O I agree with you on that, that’s one of my problems with Islam

@igor lopes what is its bad sides

@igor lopes ofcourse we den it, because its liberalt rivalvry. Not to Menton that it doesnt make and senaste and that the quran literally debunks its logic. Jesus or isa was a prophet and was given powers just like Moses so i dont see How we deny his nature since the quran explains his powers and his story.

@igor lopes yeah, CHRISTIANS. We Muslims don’t believe that, Mary is the mother of Jesus and the most respected woman of all time. I don’t get your point still.

@igor lopes you stil didn’t mention how and where the Quran says that. Am I talking to a 12 year old or an uneducated dumbass"

Saying that is like saying water doesn't have hydrogen molecules. Every religion has a bad side. No judgments implied believe what you want to believe , just saying from the view of a Christian.