From season 1 I said STD, and all of Secret Hideout's output is alt continuity, another timeline, you name it, it's anything other than Classic Trek continuity and the more they push their narratives the clearer it is... They were never interested in making a show to embrace what came before. They tried to reinvent it and take it away from those who came before. When Gene died his show kept going. It changed, ofc it had to, but even in DS9 when war became the primary driving point of the show it wasn't to seperate itself from Gene's vision, but as the showrunner stated... '"To test that vision". Because even in a wartorn galaxy it was still Star Trek. STD... Isn't Star Trek. The Orville is Star Trek. And under Kurtzman I don't see that changing any time soon.
How anyone at Paramount thought showing the pilot once they saw the Klingons wearing those stupid facial prosthetics so they couldn't talk is truly beyond me. Set aside the stupid plot and the atrocities committed to the canon of Star Trek. The pilot was just badly filmed. The effects were ugly. Those Klingons were obviously not something that could be done long term. How was it ever shown? How was the entire production team not fired and a new team who at least knew how to film brought in?
I love your Star Trek reviews. This channel will grow fast mark my words. Molly does awesome summations and the Old Mans insights and counterpoints are spot on. I laugh sometimes when i see the bread toast angry face because thats when I know the Old Man will blow off steam lol.
Farewell Discovery. It was an interesting 5 years to say the least. Honestly, Discovery's biggest failure IMO is that it's not an ensemble show but instead The Michael Burnham Show. Everything revolves around her as if she is the Center of the Universe. Plus, it had too many characters. Does anyone know the names of any of the Bridge crew?
It's sad really. Not counting TOS, but TNG DS9 (I'm not sure about how Voyager's finale was revived. And Enterprise is largely disliked even by the actors) were both positively received by the fans for being well written, directed performances with wonderful acting. TNG's final two episodes always makes me feel sad that those two were the last of TNG. And DS9 was bittersweet due to what happened to Sisko at the series finale ending. But I don't think that anyone will look back fondly on this final episode of Discovery. I certainly won't.
The finale is a good character driven story with action and sacrifice. Maybe people would agree that it could have been a great episode in the middle of the fourth season or something.
Yeah, DS9 was definitely bittersweet. I hated how DS9 ended. The show started going down hill towards the end. Things like all of a sudden Dr Bashir is this augment out of nowhere. But I always felt they jump the shark by going full spiritual/religion angle making sisko this deity and dukat into devil like kossta mogen. The min they started making him the emissary I knew it spelled doom. To me it made the show feel waaaay more fantasy than sci-fi. But the middle of that show's run has some of the best trek episodes you could watch. The storirs were just so well written around that time. Also with the way DS9 ended I felt like in a way it invalidated ones of it greatest episodes (The Visitor, easily a top 5 episode in the run) and the relationship between Jake and Sisko. Go watch that episode and you'll know what I mean.
Totally agree! It feels like they focus more on differences, particularly in a bad way, than on finding commonalities with our shared humanity. There was even an episode in season 3 where they may have inadvertently been promoting segregation. Don’t think they really understand what infinite diversity in infinite combinations really is without giving it some critical thought. The finales for TOS, VOY & ENT may not have been done well or received well but they have coherent stories, unlike the DIS finale.
You made a really great point in your comment. I would just say that in the 1960s and early 70s there really was no such thing as series finales. I think “The Fugitive” was the first show ever have won, and that may have been the only one in the 60s that did so. So there really was no finale to TOS, but otherwise I agree with your comment completely.
excellent point on character development, i learned too that you found common ground and then adjusted / worked with others and made compromises. discovery seems to have been a show where those around discovery / burnham "adjusted" to them (so you don't make compromises, in line with the new philosophy)- it really comes out with daniels explaining how discovery "taught" them to be hopeful. (in other words most shows have an exposition of how the character changes, discovery is how others have to change to them) Thi seems very common with new writers and politics who basically think they are perfect, and have something to teach others / those not enlightened. Also- This whole series turned into a feelings exposition, I watched one with my mother and she said it reminded her of those Hallmark touchy feely shows they have for older women on the Hallmark channel. Discovery (the ship) at least seemed an allegory to cyberspace itself: you can virtually be anywhere, just like discovery.
In addition to betraying Captain Georgiou and Captain Saru, Burnham also betrayed Commander Stamets in the second-last episode of Season 3: she knocked him out, bound him, forcibly confined him in a space pod of which he had no control, and shot the pod out into space threatened by the Emerald Chain. All three of these people were good friends to Burnham. They had all made phenomenal personal sacrifices for her benefit. She stabbed each of them in the back, and she did it deliberately. DD
HOPE FOR FANS OF OLD TREK In April of 2023, I began to count the number of episodes of Old Trek (TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT) that were showing on Canada’s popular sci-fi television network, and I compared that number to episodes of New Trek (DIS, PIC, SNW, LD, PRO). Routinely, the network showed several dozen episodes of Old Trek (30 to 50) every week, and only a few episodes (less than 5) of New Trek. These numbers are important because surveys and ratings can easily be faked, as we know, but the hugely successful sci-fi network is only going to air shows that sponsors are willing to support. The sponsors know who is watching what. People are still watching Old Trek, and not New Trek. DD
Nah. How about trek dies for about 60 years or so. Gives enough time for the current generation to die off and a entire new one free of the negativity and toxicity is able to enjoy something different.
Strange New Worlds is good. Some of Lower Decks, if you can deal with the "comedy," has been good. Prodigy is aimed at kids but my niece adored it and watching it with her did not make me want to die.
Man, your so-called long winded diatribe was spot on, Old Man! I am absolutely befuddled by what appears like an inversion of morality and justice in this show. It simply defies logic. In 1992, En Vogue had a big hit record with a song called Free Your Mind. It featured a lyric that reads "Free your mind and the rest will follow, be color blind, don't be so shallow." Of course, they were talking about focusing on similarities between different peoples. What the Hell happened?
There is so much that they could be doing in this era that we live in now. Lots of allegory to what challenges us now. Instead, they'd rather fight culture war battles settled years if not decades ago ** shrug **. If they were done in interesting ways maybe I could go along. But they don't. -- Old Man
Somehow something made that super powerful place, that has existed for billions of years, but was unable or didn't want to leave ANY information about themselves. Not a single bit. Then the Progenitors think there MAY have been MANY before them that used the construct but didn't create it as well, but they also didn't leave any trace. So only the Progenitors decided to leave a trace? And then the very next species that finds it, destroys it? Crazy.
So did they have two mushroom drives, one for the saucer and the other for the drive section? Why doesn't the drive section need a spinning hull? How does the saucer move without any impulse engines? All questions we'll fortunately never have the answers to.
There's an anime called Martain Successor Nadesco where one of the characters compiles data on the trend of Captains aging downwards... Basically the fatherly figure that made people feel comfortable and secure has been pushed out of the running for younger more vibrant Captains who are more dynamic and give the audience something sexy to look at. Given how NuTrek hates 'Old', 'Hwhite', and 'Male' it's frankly staggering that Ansen Mount was ever cast in the role... But I think we all know if Pike, or Picard for that matter hadn't existed they'd have created their own character who was young, diverse and female... though I'll give them 1/3 of a pass on Prodigy.
From what I've read Starfleet Academy is going to double down on all the worst aspects of discovery, more melodrama, more crying, more emotional breakdowns, teen drama, etc. etc. Yuck.
35:00 I feel there is a pendulum problem here. We seem to only be able to have an either/or solution, where we cant have both a notion that we are in general pretty much the same and any differences are surface level and the fact that we can acknowledge these differences and they not being intently seen as a negative or hindrance. This is what I think is the problem, we are trying so hard to celebrate differences that we create more barriers instead of bringing people together. Again its an issue of nuance, which I think was killed in 2016.
First, congratulations to Mollie and the Old Man for surviving to the end of STD. I am genuinely going to miss these reviews, which are like an antidote to the Disco poison. Just when Disco makes me sick with its murderous and back-stabbing main characters, this channel provides the perfect counter-balance by featuring two hosts who have heart and intelligence and by providing a forum for commenters who have sanity and decency. Towards the end of Disco, during the last few reviews, I noticed that there was a bit more humour here. There were moments when the sheer lunacy of the story caused some welcome laughter and giggles. Good! DD
Now that this is finished I wanted to make the STD joke, but you guys got there way before me with "Space Herpes" LMFAO. Despite the trauma that we've all suffered, this is yet another episode where you made me laugh out loud with your comments & observations. Thank you for watching all 5 seasons of this garbage and I look forward to more of your videos with reviews of other series or films.
I know the Old Man really hated this show, but I have to admit I've enjoyed taking this terrible ride with him and Mollie. I feel like I will miss it. Despite the show not being great, I still feel that slight sense of loss I always feel when a show I like ends, and I think that's because of channels like this. Something bad isn't so bad, if you have someone else to suffer with you. :) Misery loves company.
So... the TNG Progenitor wanted all the different species to come together and recognize their commonality. The STD Progenitor wanted chaos? Do they pick a positive message or virtue and deliberately invert it?
PEACE, AND LONG LIFE Calm settles upon the land. A gentle breeze brings fresh air down from the mountain. In the evening, the animals drift off to sleep, Free at last from fear and ugliness. The monster is dead. The monster - - that devoured the grain and sucked the blood out of bodies - - is dead. In time, the harvest will grow again, And the young will run free, playing as only the young can play. In time, life in the valley will return to normal. For now, it is enough to rest and to recover. Tomorrow will dawn with bright sunshine, And smiles will grace our faces once again. Peace, and long life.
I'm used to watch TV since I was younger and stopped watching TV at the age of 15 when I gotta focus my studies. So I don't have any new memories on modern TV like this tumor by Bad Robot.
I've actually enjoyed this season, though that's only because the only parts of this season I've watched have been the reviews you 2 have done as well as UK Dangerman. both of your channels are quite good. As for this show no one would ever pay me the amount of money it would take to get me to watch it. I mean someone is welcome to if they want. I could use an early retirement.
Hello, everyone. I intend to make a lot of comments, because I feel like celebrating the end of Star Trek Discovery. I'm sure many of you feel the same. Cheers, Dandelion Down
Picard has an entire body transplant into a synthetic body many hundred years before this era of Trek - basically everyone could defy death - yet like always NuTrek completely fails at making a coherent universe even with its own seasons, let alone with classic Trek
The visuals were pretty good. I liked the construct, and the Pathway drive effects. The jump cuts during the fighting were bad as they always are though. And the spinning cam wasn't much better.
My god. So Burnham rejected the technology because she saw 4 billion years of history and it told her there's already enough diversity and we don't need any more. That is stupid. 1) adding another living species into the world would increase diversity by definition. 2) The Federation's goal was never to increase diversity to get the tech. We were told that the tech was great and fantastic and everybody would love it. It is all we were told and we had to suspend our disbelief that it was worthwhile. Now we find out it is just creating life. But of course life already creates life. We have cloning. An evil race can already create a bunch of clones or a bunch of slaves in their army anyway. The Vorta or the Founders created the Jem H'dar! So while the technology would be interesting and fun perhaps, it's not necessary. It certainly not worth risking whatever danger that the people thought were taking. Lastly, there's something deeply disturbing about aliens using a scientific process to create life. Where is God? And if you don't believe in God, and you don't believe in some spiritual force? In the soul? What a horrific and terrible idea. I don't think the Old Man's citizen of diversity is warranted. I think we do want diversity in culture, technology, art, entertainment, science. I don't think that means that we should have conflict or that we are encouraging conflict.
The Old Man likes diversity, just not the warped notion of 'diversity' being pushed in Discovery. The whole point of TNG's 'The Chase' was that the species' commonality was meant to bring them together. Discovery turned that canon on its ear and had their progenitor creating diversity for diversity's sake. Then, MB decided they had enough IDIC, so she destroyed the progenitors' tech, but like you pointed out, the tech isn't necessary to create things like the Vorta or Jem H'dar. It would have been hilarious if destroying all those portals unmade the universe. Yup, this was definitely stupid. -Mollie
Before I start this video, if any of you were / are Halo fans, that series could sure use a review - what goes on in the show is very interesting if one wants to deconstruct what the writers are doing / saying and in many ways it's discovery on steroids (basically much of season 2 was a "screw you" to the people who complained about season 1) there's lots of frustration with the show so you might even increase your audience too
@@mollieandtheoldman totally understandable, it gets so bad it gets funny halfways through season two. people complained the head guy ("the chief") wasn't in his armor much, so in season two he had it taken away for the majority of the season - then ending with a montage of his helmet broken, so you have to see his face, helmet on or not. if anything it was an epically god troll by the writers, but i really wonder if paramount hates their traditional audience
From what I hear this season was beyond stupid. Have the writers even seen The Chase? They ruined the Breen. They ruined the Progenitors. You just described Indiana Jones And The Last Crusade.
This season borrowed heavily from Indiana Jones. There were elements of Raiders of the Lost Ark and The Last Crusade. I'm surprised more people didn't see that. -Mollie
Excellent point. The Federation suppressed all knowledge of the progenitor tech, but there's a Breen ship a few decades away full of cranky Breen who know everything.
star trek picard season 3 was all about "connection", star trek discovery season 5 is all about "connection ", so is "connection "just their word for assimilation?
A couple of months ago I was at a sci-fi and fantasy craft sale in my city. There was a vendor there with a t-shirt that read "trekkie". He looked not too far from my age so I momentarily suppressed my antisocial nature and asked him what he thought of the Picard and Discovery series. His response: "Amazing shows. Best stuff on TV. Discovery keeps knocking it out of the park." I really didn't know what to say after that and quickly ended the conversation and moved on. Apparently there are people out there who like this stuff but for the life of me I don't know why. Maybe they just need to love anything that has the Star Trek label on it.
Some people don't think too deeply about these things. At the end of the day, its just a tv show. I've been a Star Trek fan (not fanboy) since the 90's. I don't really like Discovery but for the most part I wouldn't say I hated it. It's definitely the worst live-action Star Trek show. Most of all, it was disappointing. Would I watch it again? No, not really. Not in the way I'd rewatch episodes of TNG or DS9 multiple times.
OF DIVERSITY AND ROWBOATS The Boat Race (Oxford versus Cambridge) is a fascinating and complex study. We all know the saying, “We are in the same boat, we must row together.” However, it is not so easy for an eight-rower boat. There are four different types of athletes in those boats. The coxswain does not row, but crucially calls the beat and the direction. The two rowers nearest the coxswain must row to his/her instructions so that the other rowers can see the beat. The next four rowers are the muscle, and they must pull harder than the others. The two rowers nearest the bow must respond to the coxswains signals for steering, and they must be adept at pulling with a different force on the left and right oar when rounding a turn (which can be very difficult). The point is that the diverse specialties of these rowers makes for an effective crew, but they must synchronize all of their efforts (especially the beat of the oars). They must use their diverse abilities in a common effort. [There are so many other metaphors, of course: for example, a symphony orchestra.] DD
If the progenitor in this episode had used an analogy like this as their reason for wanting to create diversity, it would have changed everything. They could have talked about how diversity made them stronger when coming together to work for a common goal and how the different species needed each other in order to succeed. This show was nothing but superficial thinking and wasted opportunities. -Mollie
As much as I like the idea of a black female captain, they focus much too much on Burnham at the expense of the other characters especially the bridge crew which amazes me if you look at STRANGE NEW WORLDS where Pike is practically secondary on the show, and they do ten episodes also.
I was pretty sure they would turn Burnham into some kind of god or all-powerful being at the end. But the writers outdid themselves and managed to do something even more stupid. She gets the chance to control a technology that could do so much good if used in a right way. Maybe she could have redeemed herself or something, but no. And while refusing may have even been a wise choice as this psycho should not be in control of such power, then she just assumes she has the right to decide that if she can't get it then no one can get it. Future generations of all those diverse races will be united in their hatred of the Female with a Men's given Name who dared to cheat them out of their inheritance.- "Be forever cursed, wretched Burn 'em!" Now that this is at an end, I wonder, why was this show called "Discovery"? Was there any discovery to have been made in these 5 years?
Hollywood has been using AI for at least 5 years if not longer. They use AI management software. It's why I tell people that so many movies/shows are oddly about family. That's the algorithm.
this season actually had some good ideas, they dropped the ball on them, but they were there. having no idea what calypso was the ending made even less sense. too bad i didnt find you guys until the very last episode
IMO, every season of Discovery had some ideas that competent writers could have explored. But instead they always turned things into stupidity. Sad to read that it took so long for you to find us but we're glad to have you onboard now! -- Old Man
1:00 Moll shoots the Breen what doesn't make any sense as she became the leader of the Breen and it was in the intrest of the Breen to resurrect their emperors child. So WHY? Then, her blood spoils out of her leg, can only survive with the dermal regenerator Michael gives her, but her whole dress is full of useless belts and fabric. Michael convince her to cooperate, ok. But then its Michael that attacks and betrays Moll and the fist fight starts. Only that Michael comes up with the idea of cooperation AGAIN and convince her to trust her. And of course in the very next moment Michael turns her back to her to get knocked off. How dumb can a writing even be? But then it gets worse with the riddle of the triangle a toddler could solve. One of the former scientists died in the first try, the second one succeeded. All the hints, all the clues left by them was to solve this final riddle. Moll does the same as most likely the one scientist who died tried and get electrified, Michael saved her by...TOUCHING her electified body with bare hands. And then she solves the riddle in the everybody would try without even knowing anything about the clues. Don't know what happened next, i have lost too many brain cells by watching those 10 minutes.
They actually did make Burnham into a god of sorts. She alone single-handedly concluded that there was enough diversity in the universe. What is the point at which there is "enough diversity". Imagine how that conversation with Starfleet went. LOL!
They weren't even doing a normal TV show let alone a trek show. Weird decisions all around. I wish it was something define-able but it is not action-pact, comedic, scifi or dramatic.
One stupid comment that nobody has picked up on... Burnham says, "I love gravity." when the hurricane winds blew her back onto the platform. That predicament she was in had nothing to do with a lack of gravity!
I have discovered that when new people come to someone else's project it becomes that person's perspective much like the changing producers on DOCTOR WHO, AS WELLAS IN MOVIES AND COMICS when others take over and have no real respect for the original material or themes that Roddenberry was trying to promote.
It just occurred to me -- why did the portal barrel break apart after leaving the Breen ship? The barrel was closed when it flew out, too (which is a continuity error to the previous scene where Moll and Burnham entered it with the door open). It was simply another lazy convenience so that they would have difficulty pulling it in with the tractor beam. So much nonsense in this last episode. Your analysis was brilliant as usual. Good riddance, indeed. It's truly sad how far Star Trek has fallen. Other channels say, "Well, at least Disco brought us other good Star Trek." To that I say simply, "Poppycock!" There will never be good Star Trek (or what one would even call "Star Trek") until Kurtzman and the writers of Secret Hideout are driven into a black hole so that there is no possible chance that they can be used again to ruin other franchises with their so-called "diversity".
So, this whole season was leading to Burnham deciding for the galaxy that we don't need the Progenitor tech and there's enough diversity in the galaxy? 10 episodes, almost 10 hours for that?! Each season of Discovery has been a complete waste of time with pointless "MacGuffin" driven plots that have *no repeat watchability whatsoever* and this whole "diversity" angle seems to exist just to undo ST:TNG's message of life being connected. It was a metaphor for humanity, that we're all connected to a common ancestor and they tried to undo science with a message that we're all different and disconnected? 🤬 This show is a pile of garbage thrown in a blender and served up as a BS smoothie. May it suffer the worst of fates, to be forgotten!
Saru had a line at his wedding about looking at all the people who were there and thinking about how they're all connected by the progenitors. It was obviously an afterthought in the scrambled together series ending tacked on material at the end of the episode. I guess they realized how their new progenitors' desire for diversity severely contradicted TNG, so they threw that line from Saru in at the end to try to pretend they didn't actually destroy what came before. Such trash. -Mollie
hollyweird has been creatively bankrupt for a long time, and dei is driving the culture, education and major companies today. I don’t understand why Old Man is so upset. It’s been like this for years. Breaks my heart that he’s so disillusioned. 💔
A lot of times peeople will 'like' things out of spite if they know it makes someeone they hate upset or mad. It has been something that has existeed for years but what is alarming is how this very immature, damaging and overall negative way of thinking has been ENCOURAGED by so many people. Outrage and negativity are seen as virtues so long as it's 'for something good' but it never is. This is why spiteful shows like this usually just fade away because I had no idea this was the series finale. I just don't engage and offline, NO ONE talks about this show in my circle of friends or even just randos ar work.
This is true, but her character also had only one motivation. Moll wanted to save L'ak. Instead of appealing to this desire, Michael Burnham pushed the, 'I've seen the future.' Of course, Moll didn't go for that, and when that failed, Michael Burnham physically attacked her. Like you said in a previous comment, though raised by Vulcans, Michael Burnham and the writers have never shown any logic whatsoever. -Mollie
What the show writers naively want isn't for us to see all our differences and fight over them. They think we should see all our differences and celebrate them, and that our differences and diversity is a unifying force. What they don't understand is that diversity can never be a unifying force. You need something a common belief, or idea, or tradition, or something tangible to unify around despite your diversity. And I think they reject this fact because that means changing an aspect of yourself in order to accomplish a goal. Is much easier to believe that I am perfect as I am and no one needs to change a single thing about themselves and we will accomplish everything everyone wants. It's a dangerous and stupid belief and it is causing real world problems.
Is it not possible for the idea that diversity is good to be the common belief? Couldn't the aspect of oneself that a person changes be that they accept others that are not like them and accept that difference and therefore diversity is good? I feel like diversity is a more clearly defined, and far less nuanced idea than freedom or liberty, but those are unifying ideas.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Diversity for the sake of diversity isn't good or bad it just is. Accepting the diversity of others likewise just is. It doesn't lead anywhere or cause anything. The value of diversity comes from having a wide pool to draw from towards something. And the value of accepting diversity comes more from submitting our subjecting our differences towards that something. Diversity has value, as does acceptance and unity. But most of there value comes in combination with each other more than in and of themselves. A cannibal, a vegan, a Muslim, and a Christian are all diverse, but there is no good to anything necessarily in that diversity. I think the value/good comes from what we have in common and can build together, like the earlier TNG was saying.
Freedom and liberty aren't just ideas, but I believe innate human drives. I think all people yearn for their own right to self-determination. The way 'diversity' is being handled by Hollywood, and so many others these days, amounts to little more than superficial characteristics fulfilling a check-box. Personally, I find it offensive to be reduced to my identity as a woman and divided from the rest of society based on this characteristic. The women who came before me fought long and hard to be seen as just a doctor or driver or writer. But we have somehow devolved back to 'female' doctor, 'female' driver, and 'female' writer. Once upon a time, being called a woman doctor or woman driver or woman writer was rightly recognized as being offensive to women. We were being categorized as a deviant from the norm of doctor, driver, or writer, thus implying that the default norm was male. Diversity is good when those from diverse backgrounds are included without being labeled as a deviation from the norm, recognizing that our shared humanity is the norm that brings us together. As a woman, I don't want to be labeled as a woman driver or woman writer. I am a writer. I am a driver. I am not a deviation. I *am* part of the norm, which includes everyone. The way diversity is being practiced today goes against what I and so many others have fought for. We wanted inclusion. But what's being called 'inclusion' these days is very exclusive and divisive. What's being called diversity is actually labelling us, separating us, and dividing us up, not bringing us together and recognizing that we are all part of the greater whole which unifies us all. -Mollie
@@mollieandtheoldman Replies like this are why I love this channel. Because I am able to ask questions and have them actually answered. I sometimes ask questions because I am trying to further understand. I agree with both of you about diversity being used more to divide than unite these days. Especially when the differences that we call diversity are often so trivial. No one wants more murderers just for diversity's sake. We want more non murdering civilized people, so we do want a lack of diversity there. If I'm being honest, between the lack of subtlety in art, and AI showing itself capable of making art, no matter how "bad", I think art has been proven to be overrated. Either it's saying nothing at all, saying something so subtle as to be able to be argued that it doesn't exist, or so heavy that it becomes preachy. At this point, I think the most art can give us is fun, because anything else is too, for lack of a better word to summarize, political.
This is a great, thought-provoking thread. In Earth's biosphere, there are over a million named species, and many millions more that are unnamed. Each species plays a part in the sphere. If all bees die, the consequences to human beings would be devastating. I honestly don't know where I'm going with this, but it's just the kind of thing that a channel like this makes me think about. I guess it's something about the magnitude of diversity, yet all of it working together to create life as we know it on Earth.
I feel that there's a desperation to like this series to say "look at me," more than liking the story. I am sure there's that too. I am not sure what's to like. I have never liked nay episode and have found it depressingly bad. Terrible dialog and plots. Overreliance on. Cgi, the colloquialisms. MB from the outset as a traitor was a mistake among other things. This show actually lost me in the very forst episode and I have only watched it for podcasts I am supporting to comment. Thankfully we have all suffered through and thanks for your hard work. I'd rather watch the Alternative Factor multiple times than anything from this series. Luckily I can refresh my soul with TOS, TNG DS9 and some VOY and ENT. Heck even TAS.
Worst season. Worst episode. Hoping Michelle Paradise never writes for Star Trek again. Thank you for your critical reviews of this series! I've thoroughly enjoyed tuning in for the weekly dismantling of the awful writing and storytelling. One final thought on season 5, episode 10. Shouldn't the Federation now be at war with the Breen? I'm willing to forget that Discovery and the Breen dreadnaught were engaging each other. It's Saru, under the guise of a diplomatic mission, who engaged and destroyed a Breen scout ship. That should be enough for the Breen Primark's to unite and declare war, no? I'd argue that the vision of the future that Michael Burnham observed in season 5, episode 4 (Face The Strange), could still come true. Because from everything we saw this season, the Breen were obviously superior in weapons tech, fleet size, etc. Even after the ridiculous time jump at the end of the episode a Breen War could still be on the table. Imagine a massive Breen fleet pulls in as the entire Federation fleet is lined up like idiots to see Discovery off to be abandoned in space.
One thing I really liked was seeing the Captain, happy and sharing a life with someone in the end. Every Star Trek show ends with the Captain as a lonely old person. Finally one took some time for themselves in their lives, and made sure they loved, really loved, not family love, or friendship love, but soulmate love. I appreciated that. I'll write the things I didn't like in a separate comment.
TNG ended with the Captain finally forming a familial bond with his senior crew. DS9 ended with the Captain becoming a God of sorts. Voyager ended with the Captain fulfilling her mission to return her crew. Enterprise ended with the Captain helping to form the United Federation of Planets. All seemingly positive endings.
@kennyhudson9201 Michael Burnham's ending wouldn't have rung so hollow if she hadn't been such a terrible character. It's a shame they didn't redeem her before the show ended. -Mollie
@@mollieandtheoldman I get that. Her relationship with Book made it work for me, because I could see them loving each other flaws and all, of which they both have many.
discovery/SNW and the upcoming tilly is awesome show is in the jj universe. Picard died at the end of Picard season 1. anima trek dose not exist to me at all. Star Trek continues is more cannon then new USSR-woke trek.
Yes, Star Trek Continues is good, and so is The Orville. They are proof that good Trek can still be made if it is in the hands of people who genuinely love Star Trek.
You have to have such a lack of desire to improve your writing skill to make this episode. The TOS and Enterprise finales were better. Not good, just way better. Thank goodness STD has FINALLY been Old Yeller'd.
Most definitely! Those writers really worked hard to make Michael Burnham the center of every single episode. The recap of their stories should reflect those wishes. Anything else would have been disrespectful. -Mollie 😉
I stopped watching after season 3. My impression is that huge parts of the stories just shit on cannon and when that was pointed out they called the fanbase toxic. There were some interesting ideas, but overall it just sucked. I tried to like this show. I gave up. The best original character of the series was Gabriel Lorca. Strange New Worlds is so much better.
Modern Star Trek - the only show capable of making long time SF fans lose their respect for humanity! I always find myself in agreement with you guys. You say exactly what I am thinking but am wary of voicing in other online Trek communities. We have to accept that modern Trek is badly written and unapologetically dumb. We've seen enough of it now to know that it's not going to change, even though it's an insult to the intelligence of the YA audience it is designed for, which is one of the things that is so infuriating about it if you grew up with earlier versions of Trek. I don't want to appear to be an elitist prick. I am not saying that people who like older Star Trek are all geniuses, or that old Trek was always perfect, but I am also tired of tip-toeing around the issue. Modern Trek is a dumbed-down, infantilised parody of Star Trek with half-assed plots, cringe-inducing dialogue, bucket loads of cheap sentiment and melodrama, and moral messaging that is either performative and hackneyed when the writers are including it deliberately, or downright objectionable in terms of how the plots inadvertently reward characters for doing morally questionable things. If there are adults watching this stuff who cannot see how fundamentally different these shows are from older Trek in terms of the underlying ethos and the priorities of the writers and producers, my increasingly inescapable conclusion is that they simply aren't very intelligent or observant people. Modern Star Trek - the perfect show for stupid people. Thank you for providing a forum where I can get that off my chest! For what it's worth, I am not a Whovian so I don't watch your Who content, but I am absolutely down to hear you guys talk about other SF shows you enjoy. If you haven't watched them already, I absolutely recommend watching Red Letter Media's videos on their favourite episodes of TNG from a few years back. Their motivation was exactly this - they were fed up with reviewing Discovery and wanted to talk about Trek they actually like. Also, if you want a change of pace in your SF, sign up for Apple TV for a month and watch Severance and Silo. I hear For All Mankind is also strong but didn't get around to it yet.
We've watched "Silo" and "For All Mankind" already. We found them both a mixed bag. We haven't tried "Severance". Thx for the recommendation. I don't think that it makes you an elitist to want better Star Trek. You just would like to have material that doesn't insult basic human intelligence. -- Old Man
@@mollieandtheoldman I agree that Silo wasn't perfect, but I still found it made a decent enough palate cleanser after modern Trek - that said, watching the two simultaneously, it's possible the Trek had temporarily lowered my standards so Silo seemed better than it was! Severance is a different kettle of fish entirely. I can imagine some people not enjoying it, but so far everyone I know who watched it has found it pretty compelling. Worth a try at least.
"Silo" had some good parts. We didn't have any regrets watching it. But towards the end it dragged for us. One of our commentors recommended "The Peripheral" a few months ago. We really liked the first 3 or so episodes. But then it also got bogged down and dragged for us. It seems like some modern stuff can start off good but then they can't stick the landing -- Old Man
It's the Star Trek Discovery acronym. STD. People who didn't care for the show referred to is as STD. People who did like it referred to it as Disco. We don't disco here, and this was a pun to signal to those in the know. -Mollie 😉
Why does this still feel like the Trek nightmare isn't ending anytime soon? Can Frakes run Legacy well enough to provide a small breath of fresher air? Why in fk am I going to even watch an episode of Academy? It's like the old "here try this it's terrible" gambit. You know you don't want to, but you just have to know how bad it could possibly be. And the way they turned Section 31 in to a laughably stupid "secret organization." Yeah, that really has me wanting to see whatever steaming pile they piss out. I love shallow, philosophically incompetent, quippy high school BS in my science fiction. It really makes me think hard about why the fk I just wasted my time watching it.
Personally, I don't think the Legacy series is going to happen, but we'll just have to wait and see what happens with the sale. For me, watching and criticizing Discovery was important because it was setting a narrative that I found disturbing. Star Trek used to be an example of shared cultural mores that set us on a path to a better future. Discovery promoted horrible messaging that had to be countered. Knowing the ideas they were pushing allowed us to fight against them. In that respect, I don't think it was a fun time, but fighting to change the narrative made watching this crap worthwhile for me. -Mollie
I'm shocked they didn't have Burnt Ham be the original progenitor. When she dumped the ship for the future guy to find, in the short bus trek, wasn't the ships computer sad that something happened to cause the crew to leave and as they designated the ships computer as a life form, wasn't it cruel and very un-star trek to dump a lifeform out there all alone ? I've got so many more head scratching questions, but this comment would take days to read. Great review guys.
The dumping of Zora (the ship) really exposes the writers' lack of empathy. Zora was a life form, and she did get lonely just sitting there waiting to fulfill their garbage continuity. -Mollie
