Gordon is actually a very respectful competitor, watch his match with Matheus Diniz for proof. source - • Gordon Ryan VS Pat Dow... buy gordon's instrcutionals here - bjjfanatics.co...
Context for those unaware, Gordon and Pat agreed to a BJJ and freestyle wrestling bout. Gordon wanted to tire Pat out during the BJJ so the upcoming wrestling wouldn’t be as dominant on Pat’s behalf. Pat wanted the opposite and to tap quickly. Pat was faking injury and the ref and Gordon knew it. Pat dominated Gordon in wrestling moments later.
So you've never had an intense pain during a matchand had to stop? I thought I blew my knee out last week and stopped for a few minutes but continued afterwards. Scary af for like 2-5 mins as I thought I was messed up but thankfully was nothing started moving around then jumped back in So quick to jump to conclusions
In the ufc, a fighter didn't let go of his choke and the ref ended up choking out the winner. Gordon should've gotten choked... or even kicked in his disrespectful wanna be thor head
@neokrrish again context means everything... look into the match. the guy fakes an injury because they had a 2 match bout set-up. 1st was a grappling match 2nd was a traditional wrestling match. so gordan wanted to tire his opponent out because they had a wrestling match afterwards, but the other guy fakes an injury to get to the wrestling match faster, the guy literally tapped to an "injury" then wrestled gordan 5-10 minutes later and beat tech'd him.... and as far as the ref not stopping it, he also knew pat was looking for a way out in an unjust way. yes it's there job to stop the match from a tap, but even the ref knew. he was pulling some bullshit.
@@stevenmai4930 Not really, faking multiple injuries, tapping literally when transitioning, not even in a sub, dick move trying to get an advantage for when they wrestled
@@garretthildinger7538 doesn't matter worth shit. going by that logic then ppl can assume that this is the normal ettiquette/sportmanship and fucking safety in every bjj gym. that's the whole point here. this is why ppl automatically connect douchebaggery with the 'sport' of bjj and how much of a joke it is when it comes to actual sportmanship.
@@YourBestFriendforToday i have dislocated my shoulder, broken my clavicle, and tore my rotator cuff. all from grappling. i had reconstructive surgery. you cant do this with your shoulder joint after a serious injury.
@@ryang9973 right, I feel ya..and I watched that wrestling match. He might have played possum a little. But, my man Ryan had no idea whether or not he for real was injured, unless Downey had a history of crying wolf. I broke my finger in a roll one time with my instructor, he had no idea, but I told him stop stop stop and he stopped and was wondering what happend
@@galoobigboi nope it was literally 2 minutes after this Pat just faked a tap to hurry and get to the wrestling match that's why Gordon was upset he knew he would lose the wrestling match but he wanted to give people like me who were dumb enough to actually pay to watch that crap a good show.
@@gamertaglupethegod8832 Olympic level mental gymnastics. A tap is a tap stop defending the continuation. I've those ght I was injured before, stopped for a few mins to realize it was just a stinger and could continue. Literally felt my knee pop, thought I was done, pain subsided in a few mins and no swelling so I jumped back in and haven't had an issue since. It happens genius
Tbf Downey was chatting mad shit about how he wouldn't tap to any submissions and Gordon would have to choke him out to beat him, so it is kinda funny 😂
@Evan Dodson bruh it's not like he wrenched the power half after Downey tapped he just held position, the worst Downey suffered was being mildly discomforted for a few seconds
@Evan Dodson ooh scary, get ur eyes checked, there's a difference between holding and submitting, Gordon held, he didn't wrench, u can disagree on that but I guess if u can't be swayed by facts there's no point continuing "bruh"
Guys he wasn’t actually injured, it was duel match, one for jiu jitsu and one for wrestling, his opponent tapped to he wouldn’t be worn out for wrestling
Lol. I've always wondered how those men can act like such pussies even if it's just to get a ref call. Would love to see a couple stars that don't do that and in stead get more physical/pumped up.
The context is important, this was the equivalent of a flop on Downey’s behalf. The power half Nelson is uncomfortable but certainly not a submission, and Downey tapped cause he didn’t wanna tire himself out for the following wrestling bout. Gordon knew that so he kept going, it was on the ref to step in
This match went 20 mins. If Downey did crack for an entire week straight without sleeping the wrestling. Portion would always look the same. Scoring 11 pts in 12 seconds. Highschool kids would beat Gordon in a freestyle wrestling match.
@@morpher728 I think that depends on what you're doing martial arts for. Is it for fighting competition? Or is it forms and point fighting? People who actually get punched in the face are much more down to earth and cool in my experience. I feel like a lot of times the guys who are dicks have never really been punched in the face.
Once Gordon got that position and knew nelson was giving up he was holding him loosely. No damage was being done at that moment. Gordon was just respectfully teasing him and the ref knew that.
@@Tonyklick well if youre in a sparring match maybe. But this seemed like a competition and you dont stop until the ref tells you too. Its just how it is cus the opponent might say he didnt tap and shit. But i dunno if this is an actual match or an exhibition tho. seemed pretty casual to me so yea maybe thr guy shudve let go when he felt the opponent tapping.
I think there was some politics going on here. These 2 literally did a wrestling match a few minutes after this so Gordon probably wanted to wear him down a bit and to me it looks like Pat faked and injury so he could tap early and have more energy for the wrestling match and Gordon is smart enough to know this.
Yeah I guess it's like, even if the guy taps, if the ref doesn't notice, and you just let the guy go and no one knows he tapped except you, then joke's on you. The ref probably should have seen that he tapped and stopped it.
That happened to me before in a tournament. Then later the same guy tapped to an armbar, the ref stepped in and he said “I didn’t tap”. The inexperienced ref stood us up and restarted us and he got me in an ankle lock. After this happened I’d refuse to go again after a ref stepped in and I make sure they see the tap.
Even there's no submission, respect the tap. The guy tapped several times, what's the referee laughing at? what if it was an injury with has nothing to do with the half Nelson, but something internal, ribs, spine, lung collapse, (who knows what's the guy feeling at that moment?) That you shouldn't move the guy to make it worst? I don't think is fun.
I think the point is that he basically tapped to get the the wrestling match. If he was injured, he wouldn’t have wrestled. Gordon wanted to hang in his back and tire him out for the wrestling portion.
@@elbalsero4428 ya no problem, injuries do happen sometimes in that position, but if he was injured enough to tap from it, he wouldn’t have been able to wrestle shortly after
@@anthonycarreira8045 yeah I think that was the general consensus on what people think happened here. A little disappointing from all parties: Downey for seemingly wanting to save gas for the wrestling match, Gordon for not respecting the tap, and Ref for not firmly stepping in sooner.
@@hairylettuce686 It's submitting, You act all tough and shit until your arm is about to get snapped in an armbar. You better tap not because it's soft but because it's smart
You tap = you submit to your opponent. The reasons to do so can be multiple: you can break mentally, have some internal pain or rupture like a hernia or broken rib, etc. Once you decide to submit and tap the ref should stop it.
@Noel Aprato But that's his choice. You can walk on the mats and tap. It's still a submission. You conceded to your opponent. Doesn't need to be a submission forcing the tap. Submission is conceding defeat. How that's done is purely a choice.
@@jonesdan85 A real submission is actually forcing them into submission via a finishing move. Walking on the mat and tapping. Yea they submitted but they were not subdued and put into an actual submission forcing the tap. Not the same thing that your example is just quitting yourself. They don't train fir months to come all that way to compete for nothing. For tye opponent to just quit with little or no fight.
@@brendon2462 I understand what you are saying forcing the tap is the whole name of the game. Iv trained BJJ for over 8 years. But a subs a sub. A wins a win. I wouldn't whinge if or how my opponent tapped, I'd just respect that he did. He has his reasons, what they were are everything or nothing to do with me.
@@JG-uw3ch no he did, basically Downey knew he was gonna lose the bjj match so he just tapped so he didn’t waste energy because they had a wrestling match right after which Downey won in like 30 seconds
@JUSTIN SHARP You can tap in any situation but if you have any competitive integrity and spirit you'll play for the win rather than meta-game playing. Especially after having just talked shit.
when rolling, you stop at the first sign of a tap/injury in competition, you dismember them until the ref has had enough Gordon is clearly in the wrong for not immediately attacking the shoulder
If you are a sportsman you should stop when the opponent taps. But, the ref here is the one doing a terrible job, he should have stopped it the the second that the man tapped.
@@jinruizhang no you shouldn't, if the guy keeps fighting because the reff never stopped the fight and ends up kicking your ass in the confusion, ots your fault for not following the rules "the tap doesnt stop the fight the reff does"
@@jinruizhang yeah man, I agree 100% Im just saying its not the fighters faul they are just following the rules. Like a very recent example in ufc 258 was julian marquez(I think) who held a submusion even after the tap and he apologized to his oponent saying " Im sorry the reff didnt stop the fight" or something like that. It sucks but its not up to the fighter
He didn't respect the tap here because Downey was likely faking a submission to end the round and conserve energy. Gordon has been verbally disrespectful in the past, but there's nothing to suggest he's not a fair competitor on the mat. I like Downey's wrestling style, but he MAY have been feigning injury here, and I think Gordon's a better judge of what's going on in the match than us.
Yes Downey was fine and he faked it to conserve energy... but that is his right to do so! You are allowed to give up! Freaky injuries happen and nobody knows how much it hurts besides you, so that is why "respect the tap" is sacred. For Gordon to keep going is very classless.
@@onz6969 True, technically you can tap and quit at any point in a match. But Gordon was thinking cummon man you're tapping already really? It wasn't even a submission. Its an unspoken agreement that you go until someone gets submitted. Thats the nature of the sport. After all that's the heart and soul of jiu jitsu is the submission and getting the tap. Gordon judged the situation correct he knew the wrestler faked to give up. That's why right after he was perfectly fine to wrestle. Because he wasn't injured during the grappling.
@@brendon2462 several fighters never returned to the ufc because of exactly what Ryan did. A tap is a surrender as well as a victory, it's not to be judged whether or not someone's faking or not.
@@leonanthony1000 You're referring to what submissions exactly in the ufc? My point was that the whole nature, essence, heart and soul of jiu jitsu is the submission and tap. That's the whole intention is to get to the submission. He wasn't seriously hurt if he was he wouldn't of been able to wrestle afterwards. What was hurting him did he ever elaborate? Or was he pretending to avoid the submission?
Was a lame tap, he wasnt even in danger i think the refs have experience in jj and know how frustrating it is for you to grapple intensively just for your opponent to tap before you even attempt your submission i would have let it rock too
@@deadyonepuncherstreetbeefs3196 the refs are there to enforce the rules, not to protect anybody's ego or to prevent frustration. a tap is a tap. it could be a hidden injury or the guy just shat himself, doesn't matter.
The referee has to respect it, that’s his job. The ref even stood there waiting for the submission. That’s way he never made contact. There’s plenty of videos where a guy goes sleep due to choke or breaks a joint, because the referee didn’t jump it to stop the fight. Your supposed to attack until your told to stop. There was a verbal tap but the referee didn’t acknowledge it. Gordon can stop on his own but he doesn’t have to. He stop when the ref made contact and said stop. That’s how matches go. We all know that, let’s don’t change up now.
Gordon was trying to tire Downey out before their wrestling match right after this, not sub him right away. The ref knew, as Gordon did, that Downey was faking and tapping early to save his energy. Somehow, his shoulder miraculously healed itself and he dominated Gordon.
Man tears his knee while grappling, passes out from severe pain.. Opponent secures backmount with seatbelt. Everyone watches in horror as the referees try to stop the match but the unconscious man continues to be tossed around the mats eventually having his pale... flaccid body placed in "submission" 🤷
@DWTZ ONE he tapped when he knew he lost the match and had another match coming up. Seems pretty reasonable unless you are a gaming chair badass with a blue belt from mcdojo #69
Gotta say, that refs a idiot, the guy wanted out for what ever reason, ref should of called it off straight away not wait for a submission, GR was had no choice but not to let go
Tapping to pressure or something painful that wont break ligaments/put you to sleep is viewed as weak but honestly full jelson and half nelson can basically crank your neck to shit which can paralyze you
Totally fake. There was no urgency in that tap. He knew he’d lose so he took the cheap way out lol. Gordon releases heel hooks and all immediately all the time. He knew his opponent was fine.
but thats the thing. its not the cheap way out. its just surrendering. The cheap way out would be to stack fouls or get disqualified for some other reason.
What an asshole. He could have had any kind of random injury that made him tap. I have had all sorts of things go wrong during rolling. If somebody did that to me they would be getting eye gouged.
@@XDWX Gordon thought he was joking because the guy that tapped to a non submission was acting all tough guy before the match and the ref wasn’t stepping in. You don’t stop until the ref stops you soooo
@@billblanco3237 He was faking it. They did a wrestling match right after. If that were the case he's a faster healer than Wolverine to have his shoulder healed in 2 mins.
@@THIS---GUY It's not mental gymnastics. It's obvious he faked it. If you thought you blew your knee out you would be in agonizing pain along with not being able to walk.
If someone taps you let go no matter what you don't know what happened to that person's body they could seriously injure themselves, you have to respect your opponent
@@PeterMettlerMartialArts you could break a bone without submitting someone just by getting into a funny position and if he taps you let go thats why the tap is there, level is irrelevant.
@@joejoward1287 Come back to me, after you have had a couple guys using the "Brazilian Tap" and refs not recognising it. At high level, it definitely normal to wait for the ref.
Yep. 30 seconds. When being able to go to your back is second nature... then going to your back is pretty easy. So yes he lost because he got his back exposed multiple times. Wrestling sucks compared to bjj. Gordan toyed with him. How it could’ve gone very very easily is Nicky Ryan verse his elite wrestler. It lasted legitimately about 10 seconds due to heel hook.
what I learned in this video Taps are suggestions Refs ask if the fighter performing submission if it's ok if they feel like releasing the hold Fighter performing sub can say 'nah, I want the actual sub hold' and continue on
Submission or not, tap means FUXKING stop... its saying uncle... iv seen new dudes tap by being mounted and the top guys gi went around the face and he couldnt breath well so he freaked and tapped... you never know why a guy is tapping, could have torn an acl just stepping wrong, could be having a heart attack, could be ANYTHING. if he taps let go
And the judge says enough when someone says tap or taps. What’s the point? When you win, you win. Anyone who goes past the point of a potentially injured person is a psycho.
@@JG-uw3ch for real. If y'all wanna be savages and hold onto submissions after the tap then just go out and get into street fights with your scary ass selves. This is a sport
That’s a torn pec. Common when pec minor is tight and someone forces your arm up in a power half like that. Happens sometimes on a defended armbars too. Happened to me before.
That’s a legitimate assumption but really what happened here is pat tapped to preserve his energy for the wrestling match they had shortly after where he demolished Gordon, Gordon protested because his intention was to tire out pat so he’d have a better chance in the wrestling match.
@@dml34468 literally a week ago I thought I blew my knee out. Laid in pain for a few mins got up started walking around it actually felt fine and 5 min later back on the mat. It happens
@@thehouseofrouse8834 That's not a thing. Gordan was toying with pat. BJJ is superior to wrestling. I'll comment back later should you decide to argue rofl. Boxing is to MMA as Wrestling is to modern BJJ. Its a sliver of it. Put an MMA fighter in a boxing ring, the boxer will win, but that's not because boxing is a more complete martial art than MMA or more effective.
A lot of people saying maybe ref maybe didnt see the tap. Even if tap was acted out. There where multyple verbal taps. I dont know maybe its unique thing at my club (doubt it) but a verbal tap counts the same as a hand tap. I do more verbal taps in training then hand taps because i noticed my opponent lets faster go if i verbally tap then a hand tap. Also sometimes i lose feeling in the area of my right shoulderblade and i dont feel if they tap there once i almost choked a training partner out because i didnt feel him tap luckely coach saw it and pulled me of
How many time a guy should tap befor the ref wake up ? and yes, screaming = tapping (of course Gordon continue till the official stopping, that's not the probleme here)
My take on this whole situation is that Gordon was wanting to wear him out as much as possible so that he could better compete in the wrestling match afterwards. He could have instantly heel hooked him and finished in under 30 seconds. Downey tapped to a non submission because he didn’t want to continue getting worn out having Gordon on his back for the wrestling match.
I read this alot about the match. The grappling portion was 20 mins. If it was 6 hours long. Say you could time travel and it was a highschool version of pat Downey. Downey will always destroy Gordon In the freestyle wrestling portion. The wrestling was 11 pts in 15 seconds. After the 20 minutes they grappled for. You think 7 more mins would have given Gordon the edge in wrestling? Gordon is the goat of no gi. A decent jr high wrestler will beat Gordon in freestyle wrestling thoigh
SHOULD have been THREE types of grappling matches. Freestyle wrestling, bjj, and catch wrestling ( submission or pin). I would love to see if Gordon Ryan can survive a catch wrestling match.
Best argument I can thing of, if your not on a soft wrestling mat. A good double leg on concrete could end your life. I’m a purple in jiujitsu but in all honestly, I would not want to “street fight” a wrestler because they could likely compete and/or beat me in that aspect.
@@David-dw2iq that's the first time I've seen someone actually get it. The ground has a 100% connect rate. In real life there are curbs, concrete, and corners of walls. You don't want to be getting tossed upside down on that or even just taken down, you can crack your head on a corner or anything really. Always best to be the hammer.
Doesn't even matter if he wasn't in submission, he submitted himself. I can't even imagine what would happen if there was a white towel thrown in. NO MERCY! LMAO
This comment section exposes how goofy and biased bjj people can be. It doesn't matter if he was saving energy or was actually injured when someone taps you are supposed to let go. If you don't you should be disqualified
Just imagine if a non-submission meant you couldn't tap. lol. Like....your arm is broke but "You landed on it wrong, that's not a submission! Keep fighting!" Now I can keep bumping in to your arm deliberately because those bumps aren't a submission either. lol
Gordon was confused because he hadn't even applied the strangle and Pat was tapping. Gordon has commented about this in an interview before. I'm not sure how to feel about this because there have been many times in competition where competitors will tap, but then claim that they didn't. Whatever, it still makes me laugh lol.
For people who don't understand! Gordon was executing a wrestling technique called a power half (half nelson, power half because he locked his hands) which helps you gain control of an opponent who is trying to stand back up and can sometimes helps you gain side control or even full mount. His opponent quit because of a wrestling move. Not a jui jitsu submission. Gordon was hoping the mans competitive spirit would come out and he would continue to compete because Gordon Ryan is just that. A competitor who loves to compete. Duh it's athlete shit
Dude, anyone whos played a sport before can clearly see he's faking it. Throwing your mouthguard, and whatever that smack on the mat was while folded over, overdramatic. When an athlete is actually hurt it looks nothing like this.
Lol acting like only gordon is juicing is probably one of the most ignorant stances to take. The majority of high level bjj competitors are juicing 6 ways to Sunday. You must be young a naive
For all my peeps thinking BJJ isn’t as effective as wrestling in a real fight. I’ve been seeing some comments of that. Bjj is so broad you can learn a really crappy version of it that will only work in sports. Look up Nicky Ryan verse his elite wrestler. Look if you know bjj and you’re scared of a street fight consider why you’re training bjj. To win on a mat, real life, or both? Purely sport. Stick with most bjj gyms and the gi. There is the style of bjj that will in mma and the street. Bjj is so broad it encompasses judo sambo bjj Japanese jiu jitsu, wrestling, any form of grappling is under the umbrella of bjj. That’s why bjj is better then wrestling. And depending on what you want to learn it can begood on the mat, or in the cage. That’s also the problem, people go to their local bjj gym where the goal is compete at ibjjf, the tourney that promotes guard pulling and bans leg locks.. so that’s exactly the style you will learn! Bjj without take downs and leg locks which are the two most effective elements of grappling to win in real fight. Basically, if you’re scared of a wrestler and you train bjj you need to take a step back and look at why you are training. If you are okay with only being comfortable in sport bjj then keep training your sport bjj, if you started bjj for self defense or even offense you need to train at a gym where the end goal is ADCC. That typically a no gi bjj gym. If nothing is available and you strictly want self defense or winning in a real fight, look for a wrestling club. You will probably lose at your next ibjjf tourney against a guy that pulls guard, reverses you and stalls on his back with you trying to pass guard with a 2 point lead. But you’ll win in real life. A wrestler will never ever win against a bjj guy that trains at a gym that trains like ADCC, partly because there will most likely be ex wrestlers who can actually utilize their wrestling in that gym so he’s already used to it and knows it himself. Bjj = grappling now. Wrestling is a sliver of it. Like boxing compared to mma. Mma is superior, but you put an mma fighter in a boxing match he’ll lose, but it’s not because boxing is better martial art. Bjj is the most complete form of grappling, like MMA is the most complete form of the fighting arts.
Too much to read but I agree / disagree. Sport bjj can definitely be kinda ineffective for a street. Gracie jiu jitsu is better for beginners wanting to learn self defense. But leg locks aren’t important for self defense homie. Takedowns, positional control, full guard, punch control, knee shield half guard, couple sweeps and basic subs like rnc , guillotine, arm bar, etc. is all you need. Leg locks are wayyyy down the list of techniques needed for self defense
What a weird post. Not even sure this guy trains. Leg locking in a street fight??? Really? If street is my concern I'm going to drill 5 full power punch combinations for hours on end, train leg kick, and get a yellow belt in judo. Anybody that a approaches to fight (which will never Happen because I'm never in those situations), is going to get a passive attempt at deescalation. Once their confidence is up and they feel they can beat my ass, their getting hit hard as possible with the combos, leg kicked as hard as possible then thrown. I'm not rolling around looking for leg locks on the sidewalk. I do bjj so I don't have to fight.
oh i get it. the ref was actually just some random dude that walked onto the mat from the street wearing a black shirt that wanted to watch the fight up close
