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GPX TSE300R preview: new budget model or illegal Chinese copy?︱Cross Training Enduro 

Cross Training Enduro
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www.crosstraini... A cheap Chinese made dirt bike with reasonable quality? Or is this an illegal copy of KTM's models? Is should be noted this is not a GPX TSE300R review, just a preview of potential legal problems. The price? It's in the UK for 5950 pounds. In the USA the cost is $6900. The main potential problem we found in this GPX TSE300R preview? It appears to be a Chinese clone of KTM's 300 with just a few minor changes. And there is no evidence that KTM gave permission for Chinese manufacturers to copy their models in making Chinese dirt bikes. Need hard enduro training? Work through our video lists. Like to see their other models? Search for the GPX TSE250R review on RU-vid. Please note this is the GPX TSE300R linkage model... there's also the GPX TSE300R non-linkage which is a completely different bike but both are essentially Chinese enduro bikes. We emailed GPX and asked if the Chinese factory actually has a license to copy so many aspects of the KTM model. GPX said they were unsure and would need to check with the factory. Hard enduro techniques are covered in our training vids. Several weeks later, I asked if GPX had received any further information as they commenced selling this new GPX TSE300R model. The reply indicated GPX was not privy to any information about permission from KTM for the Chinese manufacturer. And check out the GPX TSE250R reviews on social media. GPX also indicated they will be differentiating this model from other bikes in the market. Thanks for your interest in the GPX TSE300R. Into enduro and dirt bikes? Check out our dirt bike videos. Gpx moto makes no claims to be a ktm or have any agreements with Ktm. Any agreements between the China manufacture and anyone else are between them, I am not privy to that information. As a importer we are working with the manufacture to differentiate the 2023 GPX TSE300R from any other brands including changing many parts, appearance, and overall designs from other models in the market. China is obviously known to "reverse engineer" many products however many details are different including body, wheels, internal engine components, suspension, brakes, fueling systems and appearance. Extreme enduro training vids are our focus. One of our guys has contacts with KTM Australia who confirmed with head office that no such licenses were issued to copy the KTM 300 two stroke model in making this 2023 GPX TSE300R. So it will be interesting to see what the Chinese manufacturer says... if anything. Where does the story start? Some Chinese manufacturers have been making cheap illegal copies of European and Japanese models for years. Copies of the KTM 300 emerged recently. This one even claims to be 'authentic'. The Chinese clones are priced between USD 1000 to $1200. We had our mechanic inspect one of the GPX TSE300R prototypes and he thinks most of the clone is based on the the carburetor models of the KTM 300 which finished in 2019. If you are enduro riding get into our enduro training vids. However, a closer look at engine panels and exhaust pipe shows that these appear to copy the later models. Some of the GPX TSE300R plastics have a slightly different shape and the seat cover is different. There may be other minor variations with the final GPX being sold as the Chinese manufacturers present a range of options to slightly differentiate the bike or upgrade certain parts like footpegs. But of course if the basic overall GPX TSE300R design is still based on KTM's then there are all sorts of legal problems if KTM never gave permission for copies to be made. What about overall quality? That remains to be seen. GPX in the UK say there is only a one month warranty for parts and labour. The USA website doesn't mention any warranty but it may be similar. Meagan Griffiths, also known as Megs Braap, recently began riding a GPX prototype. Our dirt riding tips are great for developing your hard enduro skills.
If you want extreme enduro training see our playlists of enduro skills to learn. She reported some GPX TSE300R parts are made of material that is too soft or brittle. The kick starter cracked and the gear shift is soft and bends easily. Our mechanic said the linkage had about 6mm of side to side movement which appeared to be due to poor design. The wiring connectors did not appear to be as rugged as genuine KTM items. Poor quality metals have been a consistent theme with cheap Chinese clones so it will be interesting to see long-term reports for the GPX TSE300R. If this is an illegal copy, what might happen? Honda has successfully blocked import of Chinese clones in the past. Or will evidence emerge that these are indeed legal copies and might be a reasonable quality budget dirt motorbike?
Music: my own crappy composition lol
Thanks to Everide for his amazing drone footage! Check out his channel here: / @everide
#crosstrainingenduro #enduro #gpx #gpxtse300r

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7 сен 2024

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@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
FURTHER NOTES AND UPDATES ONLY USD 1000 TO 1200? We referenced ads on Alibaba. These may be scams of course. But if genuine, we believe the manufacturer will probably add all sorts of extra costs, shipping charges will probably be huge, and they will probably say that price only applies if you do a bulk order in the hundreds. We suspect the real cost when importing a bulk number would be at three times the cost. A viewer said he made contact with one of these ads and was advised an "original genuine KTM" would be shipped if there was 100% prepayment via bank transfer. 😂 So there's every chance these ads are scams. ------------------------------------------------------------- 'RECALL' ON VERY FIRST TSE300R MODELS SOLD? Not technically a 'recall', but GPX USA has issued an urgent request for all owners to return their bikes and 'determine a potential problem with a gasket in the engine'. Potentially two sides to this... good on GPX for wanting to fix it quickly. But it's possibly another sign of a Chinese factory making mistakes in manufacturing and/or assembly. One of the GPX social media influencers told me GPX 'has to actively nag the factory to fix issues'... I know quite a few guys who've tried to manufacture stuff in China and say it's a never ending battle. EDIT: GPX USA advises the factory left water in the cooling system after testing, it froze during transit, and caused some gasket issues. ---------------------------------------------------------- IS IT MUCH CHEAPER? Than a KTM? Sure. But some non-Chinese bikes surprisingly close to GPX's price... 2023 Yamaha YZ250X US$7999 MSRP 2023 Beta Xtrainer US $8299 MSRP 2023 Rieju Ranger US$8599 MSRP 2023 Yamaha YZ125X US$7099 MSRP GPX TSE300R US$6900 ------------------------------------------------------------ WHICH CHINESE FACTORY MAKES THIS BIKE? It appears to be Chongqing Hengjian Motorcycle Manufacturing Co., Ltd. They call the bike the Z300: bit.ly/3jJNd7P Apparently one of the factory's partners also owns SZC which produces motorbike parts and it looks as though some SZC parts are used to differentiate the GPX version for the USA market. GPX is a USA business importing these Chinese bikes (with requested additions or changes) and putting GPX stickers on them. --------------------------------------------------------- LONG TERM FEEDBACK FROM RUSSIA? A Russian viewer said there are tons of these bikes with 100+ hours by now but called the KAMAX 300 2t in Russia. Another Russian viewer advised the early Kamax models came from the same factory as the GPX models (but Kamax recently changed to another manufacturer). "In order for this bike to work properly, it needs to be completely disassembled out of the box and reassembled with KTM gaskets, bearings and Loctite. The stock carburetor needs to be replaced due to a lean mixture and the impossibility of tuning. Also it has minor issues with power valve and gearbox." Apparently Kamax now use a different manufacturer (Chongqing Diyang Science Technology Development Co., Ltd ) instead of Chongqing Hengjian Motorcycle Manufacturing Co., Ltd who are used by GPX. ---------------------------------------------------------- WHAT ELSE DID MEGS SAY? GPX has given a prototype TSE300R (Linkage) to Megs Braap in exchange for promotion and feedback. We mentioned a few of the negative things she found. There are also things she likes about it. Just search 'GPX TSE300R' on her Facebook page for more details. I tried to put a link here but Facebook won't provide one. If you want a brief summary of the pros and cons according to Megs Braap, scroll to the bottom. ------------------------------------------------------- ALLOY SPOKES & POTENTIAL QUALITY ISSUES? Some viewers have questioned this. The bike inspected was only a prototype, and as per the vid various parts will no doubt be upgraded. GPX says their model for sale has stainless steel spokes so we assume spokes will be upgraded. Did the prototype have some kind of aluminium alloy spokes? The mechanic said they had the right colour, they weren't magnetic and were quite weak compared to usual spokes. But he did not conduct a metallurgy test to be sure. Quality issues? GPX's approach to its previous two stroke, the TSE250R, appears to be upgrading suspect components before sale, and then upgrading further components if owners consistently report problems with the bike. We assume the same will happen with this model. ----------------------------------------------------------- BUT WHAT ABOUT ALL THOSE BRANDS WHO 'STOLE' DESIGNS IN THE 1940s TO 1960s? Some viewers are pointing out that DKW's revolutionary 125 two stroke design was stolen by many big brands. I don't think that's quite the same situation though as this Chinese IP theft. Prior to WW2, some major manufacturers followed elements of the design without infringing patents... but yes some smaller brands simply copied the porting design without permission. Then (rightly or wrongly), DKW's patents were scrapped under WW2 reparations so there was no stealing involved. Also, patents only run for a certain number of years and I suspect that Japanese copies in the 1960s fell outside the original duration of the patent. Remember these Chinese copies are actually copies of almost the entire KTM model, not just a port design or the engine. And there's a whole Chinese government and legal bureacracy making it very easy to do this unfortunately. -------------------------------------------------------------- MEGS BRAAP SUMMARY Pros: Counter-balanced. It has almost no vibration. Smooth power delivery Very light clutch pull Engine lugs wells Very 'planted' handling Reliable battery in -15C temps Grippy footpegs Very soft seat Excellent brakes Lower seat height Radiator fan Cons: Some parts are made of material that is too soft or brittle. Clutch lever is too far from the bars Suspension too soft for many riders Clutch doesn't feel precise Stock skidplate fell of immediately (Ed note: it's a prototype so some of these problems may be corrected). Quote: "I’m stoked to announce that I’ll be working with Gpx moto / PitsterPro to help them develop and refine their new TSE 300R! This is going to be a really fun and exciting project!" Megan Griffiths Racing 15.12.22 ------------------ THE OLD ANTI-CHINESE DEBATE! Some viewers are saying why be against indirectly supporting the CCP by buying Chinese bikes when countries like the USA are just as bad, or even worse. That's a really good question for anyone interested in geopolitics, ethics and consumer choices. I'm no fan of US politics and there have been plenty of horrendous situations with their foreign affairs. And of course positive interventions too. I know anyone who leans to the left will tend to downplay China's bad behaviour and say the USA is just as bad, or even worse... a gross over-simplification in my opinion. And of course anyone leaning toward the right will see any socialist/communist country as inherently evil and the USA as the world's righteous policeman. This is also downplaying the fact that the CCP has done a lot of good such as dramatically decreasing poverty for the Chinese people. Everyone will have different opinions. Me? I think it depends on why the sanctions are applied. A lot of sanctions are applied due to human rights abuses and state-sponsored terrorism (I know all the old arguments about one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter). Generally I have no issues with those. But other sanctions are applied due to what the USA sees as unfair trade practices and this is where it can be a can of worms. At times it might be justified. At other times it can be used to simply punish a country for not acting in the USA's interest.
@g.r.c.8674
@g.r.c.8674 Год назад
This engine is copied by several factories. Some models have HJ engines, some Qoshine (not exactly the name). Different carburetors, some install a copy of Mikuni TMH. Almost all motorcycles have a high friction force in the front fork. Weak rear shock. Therefore, now it is impossible to speak unambiguously about some level of quality of these motorcycles. Too different configurations are sold in each country. But so far only one thing is clear - until all childhood diseases are eliminated, it is too early to say that they are at least somehow competitive with the original KTM.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
Would you have any links to those factories? I've been looking into this and I'm wondering if the same factory acts under different business names. E.g. The factory for Kamax appears to be Chongqing Diyang Science Technology Development Co., Ltd ). I can't be certain, but some say GPX are sourced from Chongqing Hengjian Motorcycle Manufacturing Co., Ltd. (no exact address given on their Facebook page). These are in the same town so I suspect it could be the same factory... or they may be sharing production? Keen to hear more if you have details.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
Megs is definitely paid by GPX and has stated on her Facebook page that she is working with GPX (Tyler from the Everide channel is under a similar arrangement). Quote: "I’m stoked to announce that I’ll be working with Gpx moto / PitsterPro to help them develop and refine their new TSE 300R! This is going to be a really fun and exciting project!" Megan Griffiths Racing 15.12.22
@ExpatonTwoWheels
@ExpatonTwoWheels Год назад
I bought a cheap carb from China and found it couldn't be adjusted as well. All carbs have to be setup for application, so a carb that can't be adjusted is useless. If you have to disassemble the bike and replace all the gaskets, I don't see the point in saving a few bucks.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
It could be Koshine? I've tracked it down to the factory.... Wuyi Koshine Motion Apparatus Co., Ltd. apparently based in Zhejiang. It seems they have largely copied KTM too but there are more differences perhaps. bit.ly/3HYK5hy EDIT: This is incorrect. GPX appear to be using bikes supplied by Chongqing Hengjian Motorcycle Manufacturing Co., Ltd.
@alanwesterfield4254
@alanwesterfield4254 Год назад
I hid my KTM under a bunch of thick brush this morning when that big damn balloon was flying over FOR THIS EXACT REASON! Don't let them see your bikes guys.... these knock off companies could destroy a good ball bearing with a rubber mallet!
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
😂
@SwormCycles
@SwormCycles Год назад
🤣🤣No kidding!!
@kjnwildout7194
@kjnwildout7194 Год назад
🤣
@TheFox2racing
@TheFox2racing Год назад
🤣😂😅👍😎💩
@tomwagner6334
@tomwagner6334 Год назад
😂⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️
@pnwdirttalk
@pnwdirttalk Год назад
I know I sound like some angry old crank when I speak out against Chinese bikes over and over again. Everyone is free to tune me out and ignore. "OK boomer". However, I have the long-term good of the sport and industry in mind, I know what I’m talking about, and I’m not going to ignore the opportunity to educate, drive discussion, and hopefully even make a positive impact on the longevity and vitality of the moto community. Beyond the moto community my experiences delves into topics like national security and political science / geopolitics. I'm no expert by any means, but I can think critically as I have the reading and the traveling to back up my observations. I have stood in Tiananmen Square exactly where the guy with the grocery bags faced down the column of tanks in 1989...before everyone was massacred. When I excitedly gave voice to that observation, I was told firmly by my Chinese minder/guide, "That never happened." That was 2005--just 16 years after the fact. That moment has stuck with me ever since. The People's Republic of China's Chinese Communist Party is NOT a friend to the West. It's not even a friend to the people of China. The long term cost of buying a Chinese clone/copy/ripoff/whatever bike is going to hit you well after next week's paycheck and it's going to collectively hit all of us as it fundamentally alters the moto industry, as it has as every other industry (phones and pharmaceuticals come to mind). There is no such thing as a free lunch. There is always a catch. The bikes are significantly cheaper than other mainstream OEMs for a reason. Chinese manufacturers don't develop for the most part, they copy. Not much different than the guy who copies the answers to the test. Do you want him as your engineer or software developer? Airline pilot? When the Chinese drive the OEMs out of business through unfair business practice or force them to use cheaper materials in order to compete, we in the community all lose because innovation will stall and quality will suffer. 1. The performance is low because the quality and quality control of parts (metallurgy and manufacturing) and build is low. Parts are not always readily available. I'm sure that'll continue to improve as they expand market share, and yes they're copying other OEMs so some stuff will fit. But what stuff? 2. More importantly, you are sending your money to the Chinese Communist Party, which maintains policies and practices of aggressive theft of intellectual property, copyright and patent infringement, slave wages to undercut legitimate market players, a surveillance state responsible for ethnic cleansing, and a general anti-West stance whose goal is Chinese hegemony--and that will ultimately end in less choice and freedom for EVERYONE. So there's an opinion for you. If you've already made your decision, just own it and move on. If you haven't, I'd urge you to consider what I've written. Can you avoid buying Chinesium entirely? No, it's not really possible for most people at all times. However, don't make the ridiculous argument that you already own Chinese stuff, so why should this be any different. When feasible, you should choose other than Chinese. A used YZ or TTR or KLX would be a far, far better purchase for a beginner bike. A used KTM 300 or YZ250 would be a far better purchase than the new Chinese 250 and 300 2-strokes. Bottom line, do your homework. Know what you're buying today and know what you're buying stock in for the future.
@pnwdirttalk
@pnwdirttalk Год назад
TL/DR: If you ignore the material and workmanship quality control issues, then completely ignore the impact of State-sponsored theft of intellectual property, use of slave wages and unfair market practices, ethnic cleansing while controlling what citizens see, hear, and think...I guess they're not such bad bikes. 😆
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
It's interesting to see the range of responses to Chinese copying of motorbike designs. Some riders say 'I don't care, if it's a lot cheaper then more power to the Chinese'. But looking through these comments, I reckon the majority of viewers appear to be against it. Whether it's the ethics of Intellectual Property theft, losing money in the long run (poor resale and/or unreliability).
@daknobbmeister
@daknobbmeister Год назад
Totally with you, man. I can't believe some riders are missing the big picture here. We are indirectly supporting an oppressive regime that steals intellectual property, bullies its neighbours, imprisons minorities and uses them as slave labour, and is very likely to start a Putin-style war with Taiwan soon. Sure, some riders don't care about the politics. But then there's the very questionable long term reliability, poor resale value, and the fact that you can buy a Japanese or European two stroke for just a bit more.
@kencampbell6037
@kencampbell6037 Год назад
@@daknobbmeister which bikes are just a bit more? the gpx looks like its about 2/3 of the usual two stroke 300s. not that i'd buy one at that price lol. but interested which ones don't cost much more than a gpx.
@daknobbmeister
@daknobbmeister Год назад
@@kencampbell6037 I was reading it in the pinned first comment. The Beta Xtrainer and Yamaha YZ250X are only about 15% more. Of course you don't get an electric start with the YZ250X, and the Xtrainer has pretty soft suspension. Great resale value. Known reliability. No IP theft. What's not to like?
@0ooooooooa
@0ooooooooa Год назад
We have tons of these bikes in Russia. They have run 100+ hours by now. You can see long-term reports on RU-vid using the keywords like KAMAX 300 2t. In short, in order for this bike to work properly, it needs to be completely disassembled out of the box and reassembled with KTM gaskets, bearings and loctite. The stock carburetor needs to be replaced due to a lean mixture and the impossibility of tuning. Also it has minor issues with power valve and gearbox.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
Thanks that is really good long term feedback. What sort of engine problems occurred? And are you sure it's the same manufacturer? EDIT: according to Andrey's comment below, the early Kamax models did come from the same factory as the GPX models, but Kamax have now changed to another manufacturer.
@user-nz1rg5pf2k
@user-nz1rg5pf2k Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-MAUF-QXpZsU.html There are 3 factories in China that produce copies of ktm engines, they all need to be improved, we have several brands that have already started selling such motorcycles, but one brand does not put them on sale and is modifying the engine through a close relationship with the factory. The brand is called Avantis, you can follow their news on social networks.
@user-nz1rg5pf2k
@user-nz1rg5pf2k Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro At the moment, the most reliable Chinese engines are 4 strokes, Avantis Racing Team on their motorcycles passed Red Bull Romaniacs without breakdowns and even took 1st place in the bronze class. The only disadvantage of 4-stroke Chinese engines is their weight.
@enduroble
@enduroble Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro it is not really correct feedback, kamax 300 it is not same as gpx , this company made their own frame and bought all parts as engine suspension etc. from Heigjang (gpx) but all of this parts from prototype bikes , well here in China people expected selling days on October 2021 but after 1 year it still not available for selling coz factory still testing and improving quality
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
It seems the factory from Kamax is Chongqing Diyang Science Technology Development Co., Ltd 66W3+CW6, Jiangjin District, China, 402284 There's a fair chance the factory for KTM copies used by GPX is called Chongqing Hengjian Motorcycle Manufacturing Co., Ltd. I can't find an address but it's the same city... could they be sharing production? facebook.com/HJmotorcycles EDIT: A Chinese viewer has told me It's a massive city bigger than Beijing and there are many motorbike manufacturers there so I think it's safe to assume these are different factories making their own copies of KTM designs.
@pharettface
@pharettface Год назад
We've owned 5 total currently have 4 GPX bikes. For what you pay the quality is very much on par and has been on par with Japanese DS bikes. Some things are cheaper softer some things are done very well. God knows my DRZs have soft cheap parts LOL (3 Stators later). Don't have the TSE300 in hand yet but I do know there are a lot of improvements to it I'm excited to try that one out. Our GPX 250 two stroke did awesome hundreds of hours of use and no major issues out side of some minor wear items. our 4 four stroke models have done very well as rentals. The GPX FSE300s IMO are a much more capable, powerful, and fun bike compared to a KLX300S. Reliability over time has been good so far. One of the 300s has a little over a 100 hours with no issues. Also GPX in the US was very good about sending out parts for any defects or shipping issues well beyond a month. Honestly have had the best service and parts of any company I've worked with they try very hard to fix issues or defects. The 450 had a defective air intake replaced for free with a redesigned part. Bout the best I can ask for. I'm not a shill we also rent Beta, Rieju, Honda, etc. but we took a chance on the GPX bikes and through 5 of them have been very happy for the value and it allowing people to get out on real dirt bikes for cheaper and it hasn't tanked us in constant repairs.
@tintopia
@tintopia Год назад
I can't afford to buy cheap things. Also, the slippery slope of ethics vs dollars leads to a country that doesn't manufacture anything and rewards mediocrity.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
Sounds like a good rule for life in general
@doc650adventures
@doc650adventures Год назад
I wish I could give you more than one upvote on this comment.
@Natedoc808
@Natedoc808 Год назад
Atlas shrugged
@doc650adventures
@doc650adventures Год назад
@@Natedoc808 Yes he did!!
@ogasi1798
@ogasi1798 Год назад
pretty much every single thing you own has its roots in the east - buy a bentley, eastern parts, vw , bmw etc - last time ussa made a tv for example? exactly
@RodNeufeld
@RodNeufeld Год назад
While it is a struggle to come up with the 12,000 CDN for a new KTM 300 I still would rather buy a used one than a Chinese clone. A one month warranty is no better than just buying a used bike and hoping you picked a good one as I am sure the odds of a good clone are about the same, maybe less.
@daknobbmeister
@daknobbmeister Год назад
Same here
@donniemcfarland3160
@donniemcfarland3160 Год назад
If you are going to spend that kind of money purchase a Sherco or a Beta.
@RodNeufeld
@RodNeufeld Год назад
@@donniemcfarland3160 oh I have my eye on the sherco or beta but the dealership is just a little out of the way.
@MarkYager
@MarkYager Год назад
Husqvarna "competition" offroad bikes in Canada only have 30 days' warranty. I was really disappointed to discover that after I bought my TE300i last January and couldn't ride it until April. And, as a high-end enduro bike, literally designed to be ridden through the woods, didn't come with a spark arrestor.
@crosstrainingadventure
@crosstrainingadventure Год назад
@@MarkYager The Austrian warranty is terrible, Mark. There were so many complaints in Australia that the distributor offers six months now to match the other brands... which is just as well. The 300EXC is priced $2000 more than the competition here. 🤔
@cathy2128
@cathy2128 Год назад
Buying one of these is like buying a fake $100 note for $50. It looks good and you can brag to your mates about what a good deal it was , until you try to sell it and find that you're stuck with it!
@UncannySense
@UncannySense Год назад
There is no real used market...you ride the item into the ground and then buy a new 1 and perhaps use the old bike for spares...
@krispewkrem3
@krispewkrem3 Год назад
There’s a guy trying to sell one for $5k here. It’s been sitting for months.
@richardshade7052
@richardshade7052 27 дней назад
ill buy china bikes used for super cheap and fix them up and ride them a couple times then sell them for about what im into it. Its just something to do for me lol. But yea seen several of the gpx bikes posted for around 4k and they arent selling.
@keithmcqueen7666
@keithmcqueen7666 Год назад
Nope. For 7k I'll pick up a second hand KTM as I know parts will be well available in the future. Also, F those intellectual property thieves.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
The Chinese theft of intellectual property is a huge problem. And generally there's not much legal recourse either from what I've read.
@vertvlogs675
@vertvlogs675 Год назад
I can't imagine anything harder to work on or source parts for than a European motorcycle, reverse engineered, and then built by the Chinese. Just sounds like a headache.
@TractioneRag
@TractioneRag Год назад
Hear hear
@talon0863
@talon0863 Год назад
That is exactly what I am thinking. Buying a GPX is being an accomplice to theft. And F those guys anyway.
@gophop
@gophop Год назад
Chinese knock-offs have started off as $3k bikes. They've crept up to $6k in 3 years. No significant changes. It's still a $3k bike.
@KestrelYI
@KestrelYI Год назад
This is exactly why I bought a gently used '06 WR250F for trail riding.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
Great bikes!
@KN-lq4zv
@KN-lq4zv Год назад
Awesome bike, they are indestructible and would run rings around anything Chinese, good move
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
The guys who run Cambodian Motorbikes Tours have a whole fleet of them. Unbreakable. Last forever.
@KestrelYI
@KestrelYI Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro Glad to hear! I brought the bike back to stock condition with the exception of pulling the intentional little Yamaha exhaust restrictor and a good rejet to match my local riding elevation (~2000-2700m). Nice to hear that somebody is running a fleet and they've been solid!
@yoboo6167
@yoboo6167 Год назад
Congrats! Wish I still had my '08. Amazing bikes!
@artisbriska6694
@artisbriska6694 Год назад
When I was a kid, I rode russian motorcycles. You drive for two hours and then repair for four :) . It's the same situation here.
@kencampbell6037
@kencampbell6037 Год назад
Good chance that will be the case
@TheFox2racing
@TheFox2racing Год назад
🤣😅😂😱👍😎💩
@wrightcycleworks
@wrightcycleworks Год назад
Take it from a guy who owned a GPX 450. Stay the hell away from GPX. Cheap illegal copies of KTMs. Their customer service is absolutely terrible and parts availability on the important pieces is non existent. They have priced themselves out of being an option in my opinion. One factory in China makes these, and if you order so many you get custom colors and graphics. GPX isn't doing anything revolutionary here. Pitbike company Thumpstar is selling these as well. The 300 is just a punched out version of the Yamaha DT 250 engine they copied for their TSE 250. I have a video on my channel breaking down my experience with GPX for those interested. Save your money and buy anything else but a GPX!
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
I'm not familiar with the GPX 450 model. Is it a very similar case where the majority of the bike has been copied from KTM but just certain parts are altered? I think I found the vid you mentioned... Why you shouldn't buy a GPX FSE450 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ph9jouy7Qlo.html
@wrightcycleworks
@wrightcycleworks Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro yep, that's my video. Same full size copy frame with a Zongshen NC450 engine.
@liviosinibaldi3632
@liviosinibaldi3632 Год назад
I run an off-road company in South East Asia, and we are totally fed up with Chinese miserable poor quality, period!
@kick8472
@kick8472 Год назад
I was considering the GPX 450 a few years back as a dual sport bike. I read a lot and messaged a few owners. It seemed to me it was Russian roulette as some people found the best bike of their lives while others had problem after problem, including random breakdowns. I was debating it but after GPX prices jumped over $5000US, the used market became much more attractive.
@deborahchesser7375
@deborahchesser7375 Год назад
That’s my take on it too, I well used Honda or Yamaha would probably still outlast the 🇨🇳 bike.
@meme8315
@meme8315 Год назад
A honda and yamaha will outlast your ktm junk too and they are cheaper to fix
@kencampbell6037
@kencampbell6037 Год назад
I agree, this is way too expensive for an untested Chinese copy of KTM's designs (overlooking the legality of IP theft!). As others have pointed out, much better known bikes like the Beta Xtrainer 300 or Yamaha YZ250X are available for only around 15% more.
@TraveladvRajanSRai
@TraveladvRajanSRai Год назад
There legit .jus do maintenance. None of u know bikes
@kick8472
@kick8472 Год назад
​@@TraveladvRajanSRai Obviously myself, and the dude who told me his footpeg broke in half when he stood up on the pegs in his back yard don't know bikes and just can't do maintenance. Maybe he should have changed the oil before standing up on the pegs.
@Tibingi84
@Tibingi84 Год назад
IP infringement? easy, no doubt about it. but intellectual property issues are KTM's problem, not ours. The consumers' concern is the quality of this bike and its components , and I can only assume that the saying "Cheap is Expansive" would apply here, easy. think of it - would you use Chinese engine parts, bearings, and other safety parts on your current Enduro bike? I assume not.
@63Frenchy
@63Frenchy Год назад
I would too afraid that something safety related breaks in the middle of a ride and ends in a shitty accident. Off-road biking is sufficiently risky on its own for nor adding poor Chinese quality on top…
@donaldgrant9067
@donaldgrant9067 11 месяцев назад
Well I will say my KEWS is well made as far as welds, but my Appollo, now that dicy.
@robertbaker9329
@robertbaker9329 Год назад
The Chinese clones are getting more and more expensive so it defeats the entire point in my opinion then when they get banned your stuck without parts and your more than likely are going to need them lol
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
That's the interesting thing, Rob. Ignoring the legalities, if it's really cheap then part of that will be inferior metals and poor quality control. As they improve, the price goes up. So it is really worth it in the long run?
@TractioneRag
@TractioneRag Год назад
100% agree
@gallbrosmedical-bracespec
@gallbrosmedical-bracespec Год назад
This
@GasGrassOrAssetto
@GasGrassOrAssetto Год назад
its half the price for basically the same thing
@robertbaker9329
@robertbaker9329 Год назад
@@GasGrassOrAssetto the material used for gpx and other Chinese brands are subpar when compared to ktm or the big Japanese brands that’s how the price is cut down cheaper materials the other brands aren’t just greedy lol
@RandysRides
@RandysRides Год назад
If they've skimped on obvious parts, the safety factor is right out the window. I'll pay a bit more to make it home.
@gpaull2
@gpaull2 Год назад
Failing parts on dirt bikes are no joke if you ride hard. I’ve known one rider that was killed from a failed part, and I almost lost the use of my right arm because of a failed part.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
Damn. Which parts in those cases?
@RandysRides
@RandysRides Год назад
@@gpaull2 I used to do a lot of mountain biking. I've seen a LOT of carnage from cheap parts. From handlebars snapping to shocks folding to wheel collapse and everything in between. There's a reason a good bike costs big bucks.
@gaara10122
@gaara10122 Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro prolly either brakes or throttle cable stuck
@kencampbell6037
@kencampbell6037 Год назад
Couldn't agree more
@adambatchelder4121
@adambatchelder4121 Год назад
Well hear in the USA you can buy a nice used real ktm for 5500 to 6500 thats less than 10 years old so why buy a fake
@alanwesterfield4254
@alanwesterfield4254 Год назад
I just picked up a 2018 300xcw with 20 hours for 6500. Counterbalanced, back up kick start, carb. I took off the mikuni and put a keihnn on it just to save time on proven jetting.
@adambatchelder4121
@adambatchelder4121 Год назад
@@alanwesterfield4254 nice I love the kehin carbs.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
Plenty of KTM owners complained when the changed to Mikuni
@patelbv
@patelbv Год назад
F No. I bought a used 7,500 KTM and spent $7,500 in maintenance to Ride 18 months. I’d imagine a china version with play in the linkage and soft parts would even be worse. I guess it’s fine if you just putt putt lightly; but who buys a 300 to putt putt around?
@DarrylMcGee
@DarrylMcGee Год назад
I would not buy one whether it’s legal or not. It’s too much money to risk having a major failure and no warranty, or potentially no replacement parts in the future. I could imagine many of these ending up in the garbage after a short time. A used bike of known quantity seems like a better bet.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
My guess is if the engines blow up then owners might part the bike out recoup some money as all these parts with fit the corresponding KTMs. I just hope they are honest and say they are Chinese made parts.
@DarrylMcGee
@DarrylMcGee Год назад
​@@crosstrainingenduro Or with some experience, when the problematic parts are discovered they could be changed for KTM parts preemptively to make it more reliable.
@jeremys4705
@jeremys4705 Год назад
Granted it's better than my Chinese but the translation is funny on their USA website. "The engine has been developed completely within factory and has been subject to racing and a high huge amount of testing". Hmmm.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
Interesting! I can't help feeling that should read as "The Chinese manufacturer has copied the KTM designs but just made a few changes which would hopefully complicate any legal action by KTM".
@whitehollywood6447
@whitehollywood6447 Год назад
Had a gpx and will never buy one again!! They fall apart when ridden hard!! The frame and parts are made of Play-Doh and break very easily!!! Also the frame is very heavy !! They didn’t have parts when I needed them also!! my carburetor was poorly casted from the manufacture and the bike ran like crap!! Bikes are worth half the price in my opinion!!! Quality control on these bikes is a major issue also!! Some come better then others to the states!! You will never get your money back also when trying to sell these bikes!! They don’t hold value!! End of story save your money and buy something else!!! way overpriced and mark up from Gary Goodwin here in the states compared to what they actually go for in China!! And once ww3 starts we’ll you ain’t getting no parts anymore for your bike so your bike is obsolete 🤷🏻‍♂️
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
There's a huge mark up for sure if you can actually buy them in bulk for US $1000 from China... but of course you need to pay for upgraded parts and the Chinese may add all sorts of duties and charge a fortune for shipping...
@whitehollywood6447
@whitehollywood6447 Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro also we dug into the forks and motor! They say ktm stuff works but found out bushings and several other parts are different in the forks! There not exact matches!! The skid plate broke first ride ! Cheap Chinese plastic!! The handle bar bent after a small fall.. it was a heavy turd 💩 in the technical stuff!! I hope gpx goes under as a company. I despise them as a company now and feel like there ripping people off!!
@bikersoncall
@bikersoncall Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro Distribution is full of price gougers, I've seen this first hand with Chinese dirt bikes, a given model worth 2000.. easily will sell under a different name with slick marketing for 3000+ with fabricated dealer upcharges.
@MrHqyang
@MrHqyang Год назад
@@whitehollywood6447 how dare you use a plastic skid plate for hard enduro? Btw what year of GPX you bought? GPX entered North America Market in 2018
@Matt-zn4zp
@Matt-zn4zp Год назад
Couldn’t agree more. I had a 2021.5 300r and sold it within 600 miles. It was just starting to fall apart. Glad I got out of it when I did. Apparently it started to really fall apart shortly after.
@kcmvids84
@kcmvids84 Год назад
Seems like most viewers ain't keen on Chinese copies but there are a few GPX fans in the comments. They don't like the quality of this bike being questioned! But none of them are discussing whether copying so much of Austria's 300 is legal or not.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
I've been thinking the same thing. Viewers who seem to like GPX are questioniing my comments about possible poor quality in the manufacturing, but they say nothing about the legalities (or ethics) of cloning KTM designs... albeit with some changes here and there.
@percussion44
@percussion44 9 месяцев назад
@@crosstrainingenduro Probably because big corps. treat their own customers like dirt. I know I dealt with Hyundai and their low quality - go boom - engines. Garbage they have known about for years and they JUST DONT CARE. Why would anyone give a crap about the IP of some company that doesn't give a crap about it's own customers?
@a-a-ronenduro6969
@a-a-ronenduro6969 Год назад
I would like a less reliable KTM….said no one ever😂
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
🤣
@NoName-hw8ty
@NoName-hw8ty Год назад
KTM: lets have our bikes made in China to increase profits. Also KTM: How dare the Chinese bootleg our bikes! 🙄
@doc650adventures
@doc650adventures Год назад
Thank You! I was going to post something similar! The corporations who build their products in china for profit are the same ones who whine about copies.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
To be fair, I can't see any complaints at this stage from KTM about potentially illegal copies of their models. It's just me raising questions at this point. And yes, they are making some adventure models in China in conjuction with CF Moto. Believe me, I'm no fan of KTM lol. But Chinese copies of various brands are popping up in the West everywhere now so I thought it would be an interesting topic.
@doc650adventures
@doc650adventures Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro Absolutely! It is a great topic that needs to be discussed! Cheers!
@mudstick2509
@mudstick2509 7 месяцев назад
It's modern Hodaka, Harley Baja, Honda 50, Suzuki TS/DS models and etc., these are bikes people can afford and learn to ride on, without these types of bikes most wouldn't have a chance to experience riding. KTM, Beta, Husky are all great bikes, these types of brands are for growing into after honing skills and desires to continue riding. As far as the cloning aspects thats between KTM and GPX to figure out. Besides it maybe good for KTM in long run due to the fact someone is acustom to riding a simialar bike. Great youtube channel, love your contant! Great items to keep kids active into sports.
@SawyerKnight
@SawyerKnight Год назад
the 1k ones might actually be worth it if you just want a beater for a season. I can tell you from experience that the first few scratches and drops on a brand new KTM hurts the heart.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
As per our pinned first comment, we have serious doubts about that price. Our guess is it's for a huge bulk order only, and they'd be adding all sorts of charges and massive shipping fees. At a guess I reckon it would have to be at least USD 2500 for a bulk order. And then there'd be import duties on top of that?
@perpelle
@perpelle Год назад
The "buy cheap and throw away" mentality needs to go away. Buy quality that lasts.
@UncannySense
@UncannySense Год назад
@@perpelle quality that lasts died last century....things have become to complex and 'smart' to justify the time/expense to maintain modern current day items....
@perpelle
@perpelle Год назад
@@UncannySense There's a big difference buying from wish/alibabara/random China crap and from a respected manufacturer. You can't possibly keep a straight face when saying that there's no difference in quality in 2023.
@doc650adventures
@doc650adventures Год назад
Nope! I am betting this copy of a KTM will not be worth the trouble or money spent. For $7,999 US ($1,000 more), one can get a reliable Yamaha YZ250X with a dealer and parts availability rather than a one off, knock off. To each their own but seems like it would be pissing away money that could go toward an actual well-built bike. Cheers!
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
Is that the MSRP for a YZ250X? Great price. I think we pay a bit too much in Australia... the equivalent of USD 9200. 🤔
@kellybrown6988
@kellybrown6988 Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro I paid $8,200 total for mine, last year.
@AndreyKuznetsoff
@AndreyKuznetsoff Год назад
Comparison of 4t 250cc motocross to 2t 300cc enduro bike just tells everybody about your expertise quality ))))
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
??? But we aren't talking about a 4t 250cc motocross bike, Andrey. The YZ250X is a two stroke! And it's not a motocross bike. The YZ250 is the motocross model, the YZ250X is a cross country model. The engine and suspension are tuned for enduro racing, it has a wide ratio gearbox and other mods to suit enduro more than motocross. www.yamahamotorsports.com/cross-country/models/yz250x
@TheFox2racing
@TheFox2racing Год назад
💯 totally agree with that statement. 👍😎🤘
@sk2283
@sk2283 Год назад
Just picked up a 2 year old 350excf for £6k with 30 hours on it, you can pick 300 2T for similar money (finding very clean ones not so easy!) but that’s where you should go - you can get parts and you know it was built for the job not just a copy to fleece the gullible !
@-TheRealChris
@-TheRealChris Год назад
It's irrelevant weather they are any good or not, it's a rip off product that's going to hurt the industry as a whole, if your on a budget (like me) buy a second hand genuine bike and fix it up.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
It's really interesting seeing all the different reactions here, Chris. The option of just buying a good secondhander is being said a lot and I tend to agree!
@Glissade195
@Glissade195 Год назад
I have a Tao Tao DBX1 140cc mini bike. It was about fifteen hundred dollars delivered to my door, and I wouldn't pay any more than that. While it has been fun and pretty reliable, it's just a play bike and something to help me learn wheelies with. The build quality is garbage, terrible fit up of the frame and regular rubber for all the hoses, not fuel or oil rated. I can't see dropping seven grand on a bike with no dealer support and dubious legality. I get that shelling out north of $11k for a new KTM is out of reach for a lot of people, but $5-6k still buys you a decent used bike that you can find parts for.
@eureka1512
@eureka1512 Год назад
Generally, I feel the same. I think Nissan was able to make cheap cars in Japan because they had nearly everything done by robots. Robots can do huge volumes at nearly price of materials. It would be cool if KTM could do the same and beat the Chinese on quality while reducing the price at the same time. A robotic manufacturing system is much harder to clone. So, Western technology needs to get more sophisticated to solve the problem of manufacturing going East.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
I was just reading about Honda has closed down some of its Chinese factories making smaller capacity bikes as it's now cheaper to make them in Japan using robotic labour.
@inevespace
@inevespace Год назад
It is solved mostly by increased life level in the country. Salaries for workers in China are already high enough to prevent factories from moving in. Second, robotic manufacturing for low series bikes like this will never happened. It will make it more expensive. You have to produce much greater numbers, like cars or cheap street bikes.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
It's is good to see increased quality of life for many people in China. The drop in 'extreme poverty' statistics has been amazing in recent decades.
@saltyfloridaman7163
@saltyfloridaman7163 Год назад
​@@inevespace some Chinese bikes do use frames welded by robots such as the 2021 and newer Orion rxb 250l and GPX bikes. The 2022 Templar X uses the same frame as the Orion
@inevespace
@inevespace Год назад
@@saltyfloridaman7163 yes, I have some of these bikes since 2014. Aluminum frames looks like have robotic welds. Steel frames probably also weld by robots. But it is very minor automation.
@UTPP
@UTPP Год назад
When i bought a KTM 450 a few years ago the dealer told me I had a 30 day warranty, so no difference there. If your not considering these bike then your an idiot, for the average rider you wouldn't even notice the difference. I'm excited about the KOVE 450 RALLY!
@tieoneon1614
@tieoneon1614 Год назад
Aye. Having took a chance and owned a few Chinese bikes, my conclusion is that I will never buy another. SSR450 {CRF450X clone} and Kayo K6 250 EFI. Id say my biggest gripe was the anxiety of finding parts if something broke. And it was tough, u had to be experienced to spot what was cloned, then buy the Honda/KTM part and modify it a little to fit. Both bikes were Frankenstein'd with suspension and armor from the big brand names that I made fit. The second gripe is the weight. All these China bikes lie about weight, they list their dry weight as "curb weight" so add another 20-25lbs
@daveuth12
@daveuth12 Год назад
If you want bikes to improve, stop buying clones and knockoffs. These companies don't and won't develop better bikes, they just care about taking your money. When they put actual bike manufacturers out of business, we get stuck riding the same Chinese imitation of a real bike without any options or improvements. It's a sure-fire way to kill the industry and the sport.
@davehowe_just_an_old_dirtbiker
Great review Barry. Just to add, if you want to become a good mechanic, buy a Chinese bike...
@daknobbmeister
@daknobbmeister Год назад
🤣🤣
@TheFox2racing
@TheFox2racing Год назад
🤣😂😅🤪😜👍😎💩
@motozz8258
@motozz8258 Год назад
Said it before , say it again, the bar has been set fairly low already by ktm for quality components and appears to be getting worse so it does open the door to these bikes being viable. Wonder how many hrs the Chinese wheel bearings last for example, dodgy reed blocks starter motors etc.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
It's a concern. You think about how many bearings are in the engine and they are all Chinese ones of unknown quality... this bike has been available in Russia for some time and bearings are one of the reported issues. A Russian viewer said there are tons of these bikes with 100+ hours by now but called the KAMAX 300 2t in Russia. His long term comments? "In order for this bike to work properly, it needs to be completely disassembled out of the box and reassembled with KTM gaskets, bearings and Loctite. The stock carburetor needs to be replaced due to a lean mixture and the impossibility of tuning. Also it has minor issues with power valve and gearbox."
@motozz8258
@motozz8258 Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro Hmmm , tow rope for sure:)
@01AceAlpha
@01AceAlpha Год назад
Would be better off buying a used Ktm or Husqy at that price, I my opinion.
@daknobbmeister
@daknobbmeister Год назад
Yeah. Even if you don't care about illegal copies or indirectly supporting a communist govt, the price just seems too high. I'd go a Yamaha YZ250X for not much more.
@MrKips1
@MrKips1 Год назад
A cheap man pays twice. Pay once, cry once.
@KN-lq4zv
@KN-lq4zv Год назад
Consider the things we ask a dirt bike to do ? Jump, hill climb, slide sideways, I could go on. You are putting your life and maybe if you’re a parent the life of your child at risk. When all is said and done the money (you think you are saving) will not mean a thing, you buy a dirt bike for an experience not because you get a $$ return. I won’t even say you get what you pay for because what you get here is not a product an enthusiast or someone sane should invest in.....Typical of the Chinese though, they continue to get away with it ..... And if you don’t injure yourself on it or worse, let me tell you how your experience here will go..... you buy it, can’t believe you saved $3k or so on the bike you really wanted and then this thing craps itself, you can’t repair it, then you think to hell with it I’ll go back to a Japanese or euro, spending 7 to 8k more than you needed to. Don’t be a tight a$$
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
A very good point, KN. And if you can't quite afford a new bike, wait till the end-of-year runout sales. Or if you are strapped for cash, just get an enduro model that's a few years old and well looked after. Just my opinion, but I think many would agree...
@KN-lq4zv
@KN-lq4zv Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro the harsh reality is we are not Graham jarvis or Toby price. Brand new or a few years old, perhaps even more then a few will be fine and in some cases better.... mod the suspension, service the engine and you’re away, you will be as equally quick
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
Yep!
@ScramblingLife
@ScramblingLife Год назад
I was unlucky enough to buy one of these bikes in Turkey under different name. First and second gear literally useless. No low end power. Although I’m an average rider I didn’t enjoy how bike was running. Unfortunately couldn’t find any solution. No need to mention how low quality components were. Had a crash and bike was broken everywhere. At the end I had to sell it with loss of money
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
I guess there was no warranty? Do you remember the brand name?
@ScramblingLife
@ScramblingLife Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro Thankfully company who imported helped with the cost. It was Memnun at that time but they don’t bring anymore. Another company called Yuki brings now..
@gophop
@gophop Год назад
There are a couple of early 300 clones in Russia. Major failures under 100hrs. Piston seizure, loss of 1st and 2nd gears, misc small problems. Clutches last 30-40hrs in "hard enduro. " At least with Zongshen engines, the bikes would fall apart around the power plant in a year. Now the engine is also a failure point.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
I assume these are the Kamax 300 models? Two viewers think that Kamax use a different manufacturer (Chongqing Diyang Science Technology Development Co., Ltd ). I haven't confirmed this yet, but I think GPX may be sourced from Chongqing Hengjian Motorcycle Manufacturing Co., Ltd. These are in the same town so I suspect it's the same factory... or they may be sharing production? Keen to hear more if you have details.
@inevespace
@inevespace Год назад
​@@crosstrainingenduro Chongqing is a "town" with 32 million people(50% bigger than Beijing). Almost all Chinese bike factories and related stuff are in this city.
@gophop
@gophop Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro I don't know the answer to that. One of the problems for Russian riders is that unscrupulous importers obfuscate the origins as much as possible. That's how they get the "cutting edge" Chinesium tech. Every importer tries to up the rest by bringing in something currently unavailable. Those samples are often fraught with issues due to the lack of maturity, on top of the usual Chinese production approach.
@FeuerZerstoren
@FeuerZerstoren Год назад
В России тоже многие заинтересовались этими мотоциклами. К нам они поставляются под другими брендами: kamax 300 2t и GR8 300 2t. У нас есть возможность заказывать напрямую с завода через посредника. Сумма с доставкой получается около $4900, так что это гораздо выгоднее ктм. А некачественные обвесы, типа рычагов и кик стартера можно легко заменить. Уже есть множество обзоров и отзывов на эти мотоциклы, и в целом картина положительная, все проблемы легко решаемы без крупных вложений. В этом сезоне этих мотоциклов будет довольно много, так что дальнейшие отзывы по надёжности не заставят себя ждать.
@deborahchesser7375
@deborahchesser7375 Год назад
Less expensive dirt bikes would be great but $7k is not cheap. For that kind of $ a used legitimate bike would be my choice.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
The price is edging up toward the Yamaha YZ250X and Beta Xtrainer too. I suspect some would prefer to pay an extra 15% or more for a European or Japanese built bike.
@deborahchesser7375
@deborahchesser7375 Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro exactly, I mean I’m not knocking the Chinese bikes but with the price creeping up to those levels, and then parts availability etc. I’m just not sure it’s a good compromise. Thanks for the vid brother, much appreciated.✌️🇺🇸
@5ph4nx
@5ph4nx Год назад
I have a Zuumav which uses alot of the same parts as GPX and may even be made in the same factory. The lack of quality parts is my biggest gripe. Like Megs Braap has said, the metals and parts used are just of poor quality.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
Sometimes the Chinese manufacturers will use crap metal on external parts but ensure the engine itself uses moderate quality metals... from what I hear, Lifan and Zongshen tend to be like that. But these cheap copies? I suspect the problem is it may take a few years to see if they are reliable or not. E.g. In a Japanese or European bike, pretty much every engine bearing will be top quality Japanese gear. But a Chinese bike? All Chinese bearings... possibly very cheap ones.
@DennisMerwood-xk8wp
@DennisMerwood-xk8wp Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro You are making a mistake if you don't consider the superb Benelli's. Japanese quality. Italian design Chinese price = 60%Jap price. These are superb motorcycles.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
I've been monitoring Benelli reviews for a while, Dennis. With these bikes made by Qianjiang Motorcycles in China, I think it might be a bit of a leap to say they match Japanese quality yet. One reviewer did say he thought the 300 model matched Japanese low-end models. www.revzilla.com/common-tread/are-chinese-motorcycles-any-good There are plenty of happy Benelli owners of course, but you don't have to dig too deep to find those with problems. "I've got my Leoncino a few months and I have a lot of quality issues... Rust is the biggest one.... I've had one wing mirror replaced within 2 weeks of owning it due to several rust spots on the shaft, and the second one was replaced only 2 weeks after that. The handlebar is now having rust come through from under the paint, and both of the large emblems on the side of the tank have faded completely. There's also random rust spotting on the frame, and the brake disc rotors have lots of corrosion too. Where the engine bolts are in the frame rusted quickly too... My speedo and headlight have condensation... now my speedo's display is having issues. When I change gear for example, the segments in the LCD can take a few seconds to slowly fade in and illuminate to show what gear I'm in- and I'm convinced this is because of the moisture that was in there. There's been some other issues I've had to solve such as the fuel gauge not dropping below 4 segments, and the bike cutting out at traffic lights. www.benelliforum.com/threads/leoncino-rust-and-quality-issues.28573/
@DennisMerwood-xk8wp
@DennisMerwood-xk8wp Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro My Benelli TRK 502 has been perfect. This older than dirt rider has had many Japanese motorbikes, and wrenches on and restores old Suzukis. And can honestly say this Benelli is as good as any Jap bike. (And at 60% of the Jap price it's a bit unfair to be moaning about some rust spots on the mirror shaft. Goodness me - that's what steel wool is for eh!) I'm in New Zealand and keen to see the 800cc version that they have coming. The 500 is OK, but it would be nice to have another 300cc. The only criticism of the bike is that it's a little heavy. I think Qianjiang Motorcycles is not to be tarred with the same brush as all those rip-off copies coming out of China. Take care. Ride safe.
@5ph4nx
@5ph4nx Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro I completely agree. My bike has a Zongshen ZS172FMM engine that has so far been reliable and has had plenty of power. The wheel bearings and chain failed on my bike at 200 miles. The frame seems solid enough but it is a steel frame and I am curious how well the coating will last to prevent rust. Thanks for the reply.
@chrisharris1641
@chrisharris1641 Год назад
No no no . I’ll,pay full price for the original please . The bike might hold up after you change all the crap bits , but it’s still a copy and I believe it will cost you more in the long run . Plus I would have that little voice in the back of my head praying that I wouldn’t break down .
@mikeisland7382
@mikeisland7382 Год назад
I'd never consider buying footpegs, pedals or handlebars that didn't have brand name engineering and reputation standing behind them. Not worth the risk for the savings.
@bryandunbar5871
@bryandunbar5871 Год назад
£6k uk you could just get a very good pre owned one and get a branded name and you won’t need to worry about getting mad when you crash it 😂
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
A lot of viewers are saying that's their preference, Bryan
@AndreyKuznetsoff
@AndreyKuznetsoff Год назад
Or you could get a lemon so figure out it in total cost as well
@cranedaddy678
@cranedaddy678 Год назад
I thought this was going to be a review about the bike, not it's legal status. Oh well. The price is a big issue and I've voiced that concern to Gary, the owner of the brand but on any forum controlled by GPX literally any negative comments will be deleted. After seriously considering these bikes I've decided to just go the used route since the most attractive part about the bikes was their price, and it's so high now it doesn't make any sense to buy a new chinese bike for more than you can pick up a solid, lightly used, quality name brand bike.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
We always put 'review' in the title if it's a review. Or 'preview' if we only had a short ride. That's interesting if negative comments are being deleted on the GPX forums. We've had that happen on a Beta Facebook page set up by Beta Australia. Apparently any negative criticisms were banned by the importer so most riders moved across to an independent page.
@freetaylor72
@freetaylor72 Год назад
I wouldn't trust this bike on any real back woods trail, the ktm and other enduro bikes are pricey for a reason. Nobody likes to be stranded on the trail. Now I do own 2 apollo dirt bikes and have had no real problems as of yet, but I wouldn't trust them too far away from the truck
@roik.6694
@roik.6694 Год назад
This bike will not last even one enduro race.
@jeffreygumz7140
@jeffreygumz7140 11 месяцев назад
Am planning to buy one...tested head to head with Beta x trainer and the Reijo it was somehow better...it is badged as MPX here in the Philippines...half the price of a Beta X trainer
@juh7025
@juh7025 Год назад
Isn't the parent company of gpx now producing the 390,790 and 890 ktm engines and in exchange they now can produce some of Ktm's old patents? I only heard this no evidence
@RobboRobinson
@RobboRobinson Год назад
You are right and TPi cylinders are made in Taiwan by Kymco #Fact.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
I can't be sure but I'd say that's just a rumour, Ju. As far as I can see, this is the factory making the KTM copies: Chongqing Hengian facebook.com/HJmotorcycles KTM has signed a deal with CF Moto which lets CF Moto make some KTMs and sell them under their own name. It's a completely different factory from what I can make out.
@juh7025
@juh7025 Год назад
@Cross Training Enduro oh wow. That's extremely interesting. It just seems that any Western company that does business with China usually ends on IP theft. That being said, it's next to impossible to be a Chinese free consumer now a days....
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
KTM's lawyers would have been kept busy drafting an agreement that would protect their IP in China when it came to CF Moto! I've only done a bit of reading, but apparently it takes a fair bit of work to protect yourself and hopefully get justice in the Chinese legal system if needed.
@maucina12
@maucina12 Год назад
At least they could have come up with their own plastic design. Having 100% same looking plastics is just lame. There should be more competition in 2 stroke enduro market but not in this way
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
Actually I think the radiator shrouds are shaped differently to KTMs... I checked through quite a few year models of KTM 300 models and couldn't find an exact match.
@midnorthmidwest
@midnorthmidwest Год назад
You don't need fire wood at the camp site when you got Chinese bikes at your ride.
@TheFox2racing
@TheFox2racing Год назад
🤣😂😅😬👍😎🤘
@Stingraeee
@Stingraeee Год назад
In Indonesia, we not copied others. We bulit others using "copy" parts of others and sell it for $4000. The engine was from Kawasaki Ninja R, 150cc 2stroke then we attached 200cc bore up kit from after market parts. The chasis (and subframe) was build from custom build KTM/GasGas/Husq chasis. The headlight and bodyparts was original/copy parts KTM. Front Suspension using copy WP that we can upgrade it with Ohlins TTX kit. Rear shock using copy WP/Chinese brand. Arms using KTM original parts. Then we labeled it with KTM/GasGas/Husq with Kawasaki engine on it.
@ERUtheWINDRIDER
@ERUtheWINDRIDER Год назад
Well the clutch slave cilinder of my 2020 Ktm 690 lasted for about 800km, and I used qs a lot, so how worse can it be? Also when KTM or BMW or any Japanese brand for that meter, move production to the whole bike, or big parts of it to China, or India in order to increase the profits for shareholders, but sale the bikes at the same prices or higher, well what can I say, they dig their own grave. That dog mentality that only think about the next meal, made them (corporations) give up all the western technologies to China, basically for free, now they start to enjoy the inevitably of their actions. So in conclusion I will not spend one dollar to protect / help them since they did not reduce the price for the consumer when they lowered the manufacturing cost, aka keep all the profit. Also there are also legit chinese bikes, that may be even better that the European and Japanese counterparts, look up Kove.
@RobboRobinson
@RobboRobinson Год назад
So true
@gpaull2
@gpaull2 Год назад
Id even rather be seen on a Suzuki 😂
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
Preferably a DR650? 😎
@doc650adventures
@doc650adventures Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro You know it Barry!!!!!
@Kingsoupturbo
@Kingsoupturbo Год назад
Its not quite cheap enough to justify taking a chance on it, let alone parts availability. Used bikes are outrageously priced here in Canada after the pandemic so, every 17yr old took his gov money and bought dirt bikes\atv\mountain bikes. 03 WR250 that is totally worn out? 70% of what it cost new in 03.
@garypaisley
@garypaisley Год назад
In the '60s, motorcycle pundits were saying the same things about Japanese motorcycles...
@wednesdar452
@wednesdar452 Год назад
Hope they get blocked. Technology theft is a real crime. Plus if there really are substandard parts, someone could get hurt.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
Honda had two successful actions against Chinese manufacturers 20 years ago.. in the Chinese legal system! I doubt that would happen nowadays with the CCCP's current way of thinking. A few years back I heard a USA mob tried to import the Chinese clone of the CRF450X but Honda threatened legal action and it never went ahead.
@wednesdar452
@wednesdar452 Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro KTM would definitely need to challenge it in US court/the courts of friendly nations. Agree that the CCP is showing no interest in morality.
@mikekitterhing1618
@mikekitterhing1618 11 месяцев назад
The warranty you mentioned is interesting, as here in the UK, we have quite stringent law regarding this. Essentially, anything you buy here, including motorcycles, but also more mundane things like toasters, kettles etc, have to be warranted by the manufacturer of distributors for a minimum of 12 months. This falls under the Sale of goods act, and a well used law. Offering only a single month of warranty is simply not allowed.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro 11 месяцев назад
And I think most countries also have consumer laws saying you can make a warranty claim beyond the stated period if something could reasonably be expected to last a certain time... 'fit for purpose' is the wording often used I think? The only problem is legal action may be needed to have it enforced in some cases.
@percussion44
@percussion44 9 месяцев назад
@@crosstrainingenduro Lol, not in Canada. Only Quebec makes any attempt to protect it's residents from shoddy goods with lemon laws. In the rest of the country, citizens are just a well to be tapped when any company or govt. body needs cash.
@Megakoolguy357
@Megakoolguy357 Год назад
You'd think blatant IP theft would be considered an act of aggression by a rogue state, prompting governments to cease imports from that state. Instead it's the final frontier of slave labor that has continued to be extremely lucrative for politicians and CEOs alike. Now with the massive increase of Lithium mining required for "the future" of transportation, the slave labor won't just mean cheap products, it will mean legislated reliance on a few nations until the time where they are rich and advanced enough to have control. It's not about "buy american" or "buy japanese." It's about doing your absolute best to buy things manfactured and/or assembled in countries that at least try to follow the most basic laws and ethics. I know it can't always be done, but I am certain that you can still buy high quality (and even sometimes affordable) products from places outside of china. Basically, Royal Enfield > CSC
@WildAzzRacing
@WildAzzRacing Год назад
When you can buy a quality bike, the Yamaha YZ250X, for a mere $7999, why in the hell would anyone pay this much for a Chinese KTM clone? Or, still better, buy a used KTM, Yamaha, GasGas, etc.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
That's MSRP of course, so dealers will be adding charges. But from what I hear these are negotiable so the YZ250X might only cost about 20% more during an end of year run out sale? I know where I'd be putting my money...
@mikeob6410
@mikeob6410 Год назад
$7K for a bike from a country with horrendous human rights abuses and predatory business practices (no, not the Biden regime) is a deal breaker for me. I'm saving up for another Beta. My XTrainer needs company. Maybe a 350RR-S.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
Good bike, I still miss my Xtrainer sometimes!
@jarrodhilton4860
@jarrodhilton4860 Год назад
So.. some Talon rims and a genuine KTM kick start solve the initial issue? At the first rebuild Or because known, Throw a KTM kick slug and rod in and see better results? I work with a company where you didn’t let the Chinese take photos of or for Chinese interest.
@jarrodhilton4860
@jarrodhilton4860 Год назад
They always win. It’s not F1
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
It would be interesting to see if any dodgy owners tried selling their bikes with genuine KTM plastics and other bits branded 'KTM' to try and dupe buyers. Hopefully not.
@infidelmat
@infidelmat Год назад
The legality depends on patents being used in the engine, but you cannot protect the basic architecture of the engine. That's what a clone refers to rather than a copy, a clone will circumvent legal infringements but basically offer the same function. And alot of patents have to do with manufacturing anyways, and not necessarily the design or technology of the product. BUT you can bully the legal clone makers with litigation attempts (against the manufacturers or sellers), which all major tech industries do constantly.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
Seems to be a really complex area from what I'm reading, Mat. One of the viewers is an IP lawyer and said he'd talk with his boss about researching these situations. Might make an interesting vid!
@ronaldbronson1285
@ronaldbronson1285 Год назад
The principle of intellectual property has always seemed odd to me since ideas cannot really be property in the same way that anything else is property. They aren't something that you physically possess and can be robbed from you, in the sense that someone else having your idea doesn't deprive yourself of that idea. I understand the benefit of having IP but it's a weird concept, or maybe just a weird name for the concept? The question of how much the Chinese factory would have to change to be "lawful" seems rather arbitrary IMO. If the obvious copy of the entire bike is illegal then okay, but why wouldn't it be illegal to copy the bikes bore and stroke, for example. Surely plenty of research and development went into that and KTM should not be robbed of that? Obviously there are differences between the complexity and creativity required to make different components but where does the line get drawn and why? I'm not asking about the way the law is written, I just think it's interesting that people treat IP and physical property the same, when it seems to me they're entirely different concepts and IP seems so nebulous.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
All good questions, Ron. I suspect that the 'theft' also involves profit made out of copying someone's design, so there's the monetary component to factor in? It's definitely nebulous compared to physical property...
@55of66
@55of66 Год назад
Exactly, just like all the chondas out there, legality is basically a moot point everyone everywhere knows the CCP doesn’t recognize patent or copyright laws and nothing can stop it no government has the will to enforce the laws on China they’ll deliver talking points if any media had the balls to question them about it, but that’s all that’s gonna happen. I see a lot of these for sale online used, mostly very cheap and not running.
@lostinpa-dadenduro7555
@lostinpa-dadenduro7555 Год назад
Every penny sent to the Chynuh eventually winds up as a tank, plane, ship or missile pointed back at us. It’s almost impossible to find things that are not made there, but I’ll skip buying anything I can, as much as I can.
@ah8267
@ah8267 Год назад
I have had a quite a bit to do with IP law. The aspects to consider are trade marks, patents, design registration, copyright, and contract agreements. They are not claiming that it really is a KTM, so no trade mark infringement. Probably no patent infringement if they copied an older design (patent life is 20 years max). Design registration is based on the appearance of something, so maybe yes, but easy to get around by changing the shape of a few things. If GPX are a supplier to KTM and have an agreement not to copy then that would be a problem for them, but if they have nothing to do with KTM then that's not an issue. That leaves copyright as the most likely potential IP infringement. If they are using KTM's drawings, manuals, or any other docs then that's copyright infringement. If GPX took apart a KTM and reverse engineered it (to the extent you can by just measuring something) without using KTMs drawings then that is generally legal. However, if GPX didn't copy the drawings then the quality and design will probably be rubbish unless they spent millions on R&D (not likely). Its not easy to reverse engineer machining tolerances, material specifications, heat treatment specs, production sequences, surface finish spec, etc (all the things that are on a detail engineering drawing for a component). So if these bikes were reverse engineered without using any KTM documents then they may not need any license from KTM. Personally I wouldn't go anywhere near one, we are lucky in Australia to have a good supply of quality second hand bikes, maybe a different story in other countries. If I was KTM, I would just ignore them, trying to shut them down would just give them a sort of legitimacy (i.e. if KTM want to stop them maybe they are good....).
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
All very good points. I've been corresponding with IP legal specialists who are keen to explore this case further and it's certainly not that black and white. The reverse engineering is especially interesting... how many long term problems might arise with these bikes? Or did they somehow access and use KTM's drawings illegally?
@ah8267
@ah8267 Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro Multi-national companies with deep pockets to spend on lawyers have tried their hardest to argue that genuine reverse engineering (i.e. without the original drawings) is still copyright infringement of the original engineering drawings. Their argument is that the copier must have created their own drawings as part of the reverse engineering and these infringe the copyright of the originals. My understanding is that this argument failed and in Australia at least industrial application of a design extinguishes copyright (but don't take my word for it because I am not a copyright expert). The incentive for targeting copyright infringement is that it lasts essentially forever (in industrial timeframes at least) whereas designs and patents have relatively short life. Lets say KTM do think they have a case. They would have to take action in China if they wanted to actually stop the bikes being made. If that's too hard then they have to target each importer in each country under that country's local IP laws to stop them being imported. As a consumer, I think the IP risk of buying one of these bikes is much lower than the quality, support, reliability, spares, resale, and performance risks. Some years ago my father bought a Chinese ag bike copy of an XL185 as a sort of experiment after having decades of solid service from Jap ag bikes. The rear suspension was incredibly stiff and the seat some weird shape. He got rid of it after only riding a couple of km, so no time to assess the long term reliability, and went back to Jap bikes. These Chinese bikes are still for sale after many years, so probably there is no IP infringement (or no one cares).
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
I read an article about what is involved with pursuing legal action within China and it sounds as though the situation could be shifting. In the early 2000s it seems Honda had two successful legal actions in China but it was at a time when China was keen to attract investment and be seen as a willing player in international trade. A few car manufacturers were successful too. But current tensions might also see less legal success given the division of judiciary, executive and legislative powers isn't that great in China...
@ah8267
@ah8267 Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro Yes, it will be interesting to see if there is any legal action.
@dalepellerin
@dalepellerin 5 месяцев назад
Just bought the ‘24 GPX TSE300R and only have one ride in but really like it. I wanted to support an American owned dirt bike company and I know no others in the hard enduro space (there’s some kids motocross bikes). Gary and family in Linden Utah are the owners and they’ve been perfecting the manufacturing of these bikes for years. The parts are manufactured in the same factory that KTM has transitioned most of its parts manufacturing to. I ordered the bike on Monday, received it on Friday impeccably crated and packed. Owner called me numerous times to let me know how and when it would arrive and provided me direct line for any issues. Put bike together on Friday and rode 25 miles on Saturday and love it this far. I can’t speak to durability of course but for the sale price of $6299 I get electric start, hydraulic clutch, (I chose PDS suspension over linkage) a suspension that oddly, all three of us riders who rode it were impressed with (did not have high expectations). I can’t confirm but I’ve heard that there’s a much more collaborative agreement between KTM and GPX than suggested in this video. I suspect KTM simply is hiding the fact that they are manufacturing their parts in China more and more. We’ll see. For $6299 it’s a gamble I’m willing to take. It’s a dirt bike. There’s nothing innovative or complex in the dirt bike market so it’s prone for price disruption; especially when my last dirt bike was $12,800 out the door from a dealer who never contacted me after, didn’t jet the bike for Colorado correctly and treated me like crap every step of the way. I’ve talked to Gary the owner of GPX 3 times already in less than a week after ordering it.
@hagestad
@hagestad Год назад
wait what? poor quality levers and electric connections? This has to be most perfect KTM replica ever then.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
🤣
@glennr9913
@glennr9913 Год назад
Maybe KTM should consider making a "Not-Quite Race-Ready" version for guys that "just want to ride". Could they offer us an $8,000 bike again? Btw, you can get a $20 Rolex too. That hasn't been a problem for Rolex. Poor folks will buy the Chinese stuff, and rich folks will keep buying the real stuff.
@lukekelly5115
@lukekelly5115 Год назад
Ktms aren't race ready to take a stock xc or xcf to a gncc its gonna rattle your bones to death if you sit even for 20% of the race. Need 2k in suspension work to not end up crippled.
@pnwoodzz
@pnwoodzz Год назад
Nah, if we allow this stuff our trusted brands will tank.
@jw8556
@jw8556 Год назад
Well when you can buy two for the price of one it's not totally out of the question
@dathonlawler81
@dathonlawler81 Год назад
I wouldn’t buy a copycat bike. I’m on a 21 TE300 and currently shopping. With the abuse I put mine through I’m surprised as hell with what I get away with. And I still manage to trash key parts. ie: fork tube currently being replaced from a good dent. Thing is, I rode half a season not knowing!! Chinese version probably would’ve collapsed on impact. I’m not even close to being tempted at the Chinese knock-off.
@dirtyoffroader2093
@dirtyoffroader2093 Год назад
KTM doesn't really need to worry about riders/potential buyers leaving them for a cheaper chinese brand.. they're already leaving because of the cheap Air forks that they insist on fitting to 10k+ bikes. 😆👋
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
😂
@mxbadboy263
@mxbadboy263 Год назад
Or even cheaper xplor fork.
@davecummings3335
@davecummings3335 Год назад
@@mxbadboy263 That and their subscription-based electronics packages have led me to no longer support the brand.
@tassiejeeper01
@tassiejeeper01 Год назад
That's exactly why I bought a TM hated the suspension on my husky with a passion, my 01exc had the best suspension of any bike I've ridden (not sure if professionally tuned or not) its sad to see how far WP have fallen Id never buy another ktm bike, I'll stick with Japanese, TM, BETA REIJU from here on out
@dirtyoffroader2093
@dirtyoffroader2093 Год назад
@tassiejeeper01 That's exactly why I sold my Husky aswell.. I tried everything to get the forks to perform the way I wanted and failed, the only option left was the cone valve upgrade, and there was no way I was paying 2 grand plus for forks to go on a new 10k bike.. so I jumped ship to Sherco. The KYBs are perfect.. and I saved 2 grand 😆👌
@davedonedis
@davedonedis Год назад
If China doesn’t recognize patents, there are no issues. I’ve started to think some companies get a non-compete for an agreed upon time then it’s free game. Joys of manufacturing in China
@warrenstemphly5756
@warrenstemphly5756 Год назад
I think there’s a cultural aspect to this too. It seems in many Asian cultures cloning isn’t the negative it is in the West. Knockoff luxury brands, musical instruments (Gibson guitars are facing huge problems) are used and worn with pride. The appearance is what’s important, not the actual quality. There’s not much to dirt bikes, so you end up copying something someone else has done before anyway. It what new way can you really reinvent the wheel?
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
There have been some very interesting articles about the cultural side of cloning, Warren. And historically, China was leading the world for a long time with inventions but stopped in recent centuries...
@smashedfootlefty4726
@smashedfootlefty4726 Год назад
Gotta love Chinese junk! Try and get parts for this thing in 5 years... buyer beware! Thanks for sharing!
@AndreyKuznetsoff
@AndreyKuznetsoff Год назад
It’s ktm bolt on compatible from engine to suspension and even plastics
@saltyfloridaman7163
@saltyfloridaman7163 Год назад
Literally everything KTM is bolt on compatible for the GPX. The plastics, motor, suspension, seats, wheels... everything.
@pauloconnor7951
@pauloconnor7951 Год назад
Not a chance that it's a legal copy. Aluminium spokes ?.... NOT A CHANCE. I read that no foreign manufacturer has ever won a plagiarism case in Chinese courts. it's not going to go far on Aluminium spokes. Word will get around too.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
As per our pinned first comment if the spokes were some kind of alloy these were only on the pre-production model, the ones for sale are steel. Actually it's interesting to note that quite a few cases for IP theft in Chinese courts have been successful. But as far as we can see motorbike manufacturers find it too costly and time-consuming to bother. Honda was successful with two actions in the early 2000s...
@vintageelectric5096
@vintageelectric5096 Год назад
The only KTM copy I would buy is a Beta
@davidfarmer9404
@davidfarmer9404 Год назад
Been riding a GPX 300 four stroke for a little over a year now. Great trail bike so far! It wouldn’t make a good race bike, but it is an excellent trail bike. It is very forgiving, easy on gas, and has been very reliable. The spokes on my bike are stainless oversized units, it has billet triple clamps and hubs, top notch foot pegs, and a excellent tool kit. I have no regrets.
@narigueta007
@narigueta007 Год назад
almost same price than honda or yamaha 250, why would i risk buying it?
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
The Yamaha YZ250X definitely shapes up well at close the same price, although admittedly you get some extras with the GPX like an electric start. www.yamahamotorsports.com/cross-country/models/yz250x It's a real shame Yamaha don't also do a 300 model with e-start. I reckon thousands of us would desert the Euro brands in no time... including me.
@DennisMerwood-xk8wp
@DennisMerwood-xk8wp Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro I would buy a new version of my old Yamaha 1983 IT490K Enduro tomorrow. Best Enduro bike ever made!
@Luke-zb4hm
@Luke-zb4hm Год назад
For 6000 they can keep it 🙈
@sburns2421
@sburns2421 Год назад
OT a little because it is not the 300, but the GPX 250 2T was actually the Yamaha 224cc 2T engine built for many years. But not a copy, the tooling was actually purchased from Yamaha.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
I have read about this but was there ever actual proof the Chinese manufacturer had purchased the rights and tooling from Yamaha? We know at least one case where the manufacturer claimed to have permission but eventually admitted this wasn't true when pressed for evidence as per the pinned first comment of this video: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-nUj_ysMy7KI.html THESE BIKES ARE ILLEGAL COPIES! As per the vid, a Canadian guy tried to import these but wisely insisted the factory show documents proving they purchased rights to use Honda's design. The factory consistently lied until finally admitting they never purchased the rights from Honda. So we don't know where you can buy these, and if someone is selling them they are illegal copies. We are increasingly concerned about Chinese made motorbikes and associated products, due to numerous quality control issues and also illegally copying designs. We have been unable to find out whether the manufacturer has purchased the rights to copy all the parts used from the various manufacturers. We are also concerned about China's behaviour on the international stage and toward their own people (especially minority groups).
@wrs4606
@wrs4606 Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro All patent-related intellectual property rights have a maximum protection period of 20 years. After 20 years, anyone or a factory can legally use them, even 100% cloning is completely legal! DT230 is a product of 1996-1997
@1176hambone
@1176hambone Год назад
hopefully the suspension has been improved. SCZ suspension is ridiculous on these.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
Megs Braap said most riders would find it too soft and she's put her old Husky suspension on it.
@alanwesterfield4254
@alanwesterfield4254 Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro A cheap bike so good you can put expensive bike suspension on it to make it cost more than the expensive bike! What a deal.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
😂
@1176hambone
@1176hambone Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro For $1,500 one could buy take-off WP suspension but that would ruin the price point of the bike.
@donaldgrant9067
@donaldgrant9067 11 месяцев назад
Well it may look the same but as you said it isn't made out of the same material. I have a Chinese knock off Called a KEWS 250cc 2 stroke. I know it isn't a KTM, but I couldn't afford a KTM at 10 or 11 grand. But I'll be able to get out there and ride. So let them go and get more people riding, they will probably buy a KTM later on if they are as much trouble as you say they are. But if you want to be snooty and only the well off pricks can ride then stop them.
@enduroble
@enduroble Год назад
Well Im using Chinese 250 2 stroke which is different coz it has Chinese of old Yamaha dt230 engine , well bike is ok for beginners after 3 year using it doesn’t have any quality issues, few things that not good as a weight 126kg and poor engine power, well it doesn’t same with a new 300, weight of 300 108kg it has full copy of Ktm 2017 as people said here it need replace of carburetors etc. but this bike seems as good bike for this money , also we have another Chinese copy of 300 it name Koshine kn320 but this company has a bad reputation coz 4-5 years ago they made copy of ktm 150 and for owners it was a lottery coz some of bike runs well long term another one could burned in first hours , I don’t have any same feedback from their 320 but prototype models had a poor quality , well my Chinese friend always says( don’t buy koshine) but all of them waiting for Heigjang 300( gpx in other world)
@chadrides914
@chadrides914 Год назад
Why would I buy a used ktm when I can buy brand new clone!? I’d take this over a problematic used Tpi 🤷‍♂️
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
Agreed, the TPI models are a whole other ball game, Chad! It's a shame they scrapped the carb for enduro models... or at least couldn't offer it as an option.
@ethancolby1972
@ethancolby1972 Год назад
I can tell you I have a 2021 fse450r I bought because 10- 12 k for a bike is nuts and 6 k for a clapped out 450 needing a rebuild is nuts. I have had two problems. I had a clogged injector and a 02 sensor go bad. Granted the factory tuning isn't the greatest and I fixed that. It's a great bike it does everything I ask and hasn't lost a bearing yet. And I ride through deep water to go places sometimes. They are good bikes. People can hate. But I'm glade that gpx got a good bike and good parts availability to the people who can't afford 10 k plus.
@andreasjonsson8075
@andreasjonsson8075 Год назад
I would never buy this crap when the market offers the Rmz, Fantic, Beta, GasGas and others with a lower price. And with that said. If you don't have a bunch of money to spare AFTER buying a dirtbike, well good luck to you. I'm riding KTM 350 SXF. And I'm keeping up on maintainance. Motorex oil, original oil filters, original airfilter and work on the bike that I don't manage I leave for a skilled mechanic. Keep your bike mint and you wallet at the same time
@kingkong81icloud
@kingkong81icloud Год назад
And the engine is a clone Yamaha DTR, swap the chain before it snaps and wraps around the front sprocket
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
Actually the Yamaha Lanza 230 engine copy is used in the TSE250R. This 300 model uses a design largely based on KTM 300 two stroke designs... from 2017 and on as far as we can tell.
@kingkong81icloud
@kingkong81icloud Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro yea I know but they are very similar you can see Yamaha
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
A very interesting article about illegal Chinese copies of bikes from BMW, Honda, Ducati and Harley Davidson. The gist? In most cases it's illegal but it is very difficult and expensive to take any action (and I suspect that the Chinese factories would simply shut down then re-open under another name). www.advrider.com/so-sue-me-say-the-chinese-factories/
@AMSRMX16
@AMSRMX16 Год назад
£6000? But you can get a real KTM for £8000...whats the point?
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
Yep. Or a 2023 Beta Xtrainer for £6195 (might be extra dealer charges?). The GPX is £5950 so for a bit more I'll go the European choice every time. And warranties? The GPX is parts and labour for only one month. I assume Beta UK has the usual six months.
@chenn714
@chenn714 Год назад
I threw a lag over the 250 (230)cc Yamaha engine version last year. It was a bloody awful bike. Was heavy and pretty slow. Suspension felt mushy, general build quality just seemed very poor.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
I think the Chinese manufacturer was selling them on Alibaba for about a third of the price from memory. But GPX did upgrade certain parts on the bike like the footpegs and wheels...
@chenn714
@chenn714 Год назад
@@crosstrainingenduro yes it’s a lot less then a new mainstream bike however you can pick up a pretty clean few years old beta/sherco etc for the same money. It was mostly the welding on the frame that put me off😳. Someone also said the suspension was the same as WP but highland cycles made a vid on the forks and he mentioned that they were very different. Lots of soft metal and stripped threads etc
@cliffanderson7544
@cliffanderson7544 Год назад
Theres no way it can compete with a ktm. Ill stick with my Yamaha's
@tezzaupnorth
@tezzaupnorth Год назад
Didn't the Japanese copy bikes years ago. China doesn't recognise copyright laws.
@crosstrainingenduro
@crosstrainingenduro Год назад
Apparently they did... back in the 1950s I think?
@bel_976
@bel_976 Год назад
Buy it nice or buy it twice
@gonyg5316
@gonyg5316 Год назад
The bottom line is that the Chinese don’t give a flying fuck what KTM or the rest of the world thinks. Realistically who’s gonna hold them accountable. Short answer is no one
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