Ok so heres the deal with wide defense. If you have to use it for more then 1 or 2 minutes, forget your energy, your dead. This is a last ditch "uh oh, im now surrounded, i need to hold out for my allys" tactic. Not a wij the fight tactic.
@@VirtualFechtschuleI think he was agreeing and telling other commenters. You'd be amazed how many people struggle to listen, me included. But you definitely explained it more than well enough at the same time.
Pretty much the best you can realistically hope for in any situation in which you're surrounded. But that crucial 1 or 2 minutes might have been enough, and I'd rather have that.
Yup. You can't hold out for long but then if you're trying to keep yourself fresh in front of 3,4, whatever number of opponents, you won't even last until you're exhausted anyways.
Your allies or the town guard. This is a bodyguard's weapon. You don't need to beat them as much as keep them at bay long enough so that your ward can escape or for backup to arrive.
if you're surrounded by 5 enemies, whether you were stalling for 2 minutes or 2 hours, you have 2 seconds to commit as much energy as needed to turn the immediate situation into a less fucked one. The amount of energy you can "conserve" is always relative to the threats in the situation, and OP kinda touches on that in the video itself @@MansMan42069
"Why aren't you conserving your energy?" "Because you see this? This is my stomach. I like my stomach. It's one of a few things i like so much I'd prefer to not have it get stabbed."
Your stomach is behind your rib cage. It's hard for it to get stabbed, and if you're at risk of that, you're probably already screwed. Perhaps you meant your "belly," behind which is a lot of intestines that you need?
@@MythraenI’m pretty sure if a person wielding a sword stabbed you with intention to kill then your stomach will get pierce regardless of whether it’s behind a rib cage or not
Something that most people often forget is how fast fights end, 20 to 30 seconds for example feels like a eternity inside the fight but is ultra fast for anyone watching
@Grendelynden Damn right, because our combats rarely go past 3 rounds! If they do, it's likely someone done screwed up, or we are in for a very hard fight. I see this mirrored in other systems as well, you are not likely to go past 3 rounds, and they all take quite a long time.
@@Nefylym the emperor has not allowed me to get my third lung, second heart, super regeneration, and cybernetic enhancements yet brother, so im stuck with my flesh
imagine a movie, not directed by Ridley Scott, set in early modern Germany. A john wayne style love story, action adventure and a scene where we see THIS beautiful swordplay on display in the italians wars or swabian wars... Imagine the color, the life, the beauty, the horror and the wonder...
@@HungryWolf1971 I mean, he seems incapable of producing something without twisting the history to fit a "modern audience" Robert Eggers would be my choice but even there I see a danger of walking the George Martin route instead of the JRR Tolkien route.
@@mr.cauliflower3536 Yes, a battle can go on for hours and even days. It does not mean, however, that an individual fighter in this battle is constantly engaged in combat throughout this time. Most of this time will be occupied by getting into position, maneuvering, holding position and all-around lots and lots of standing and walking and standing some more. Not constant sword-swinging and blade-locking.
@@npgabrielunfortunately we aren’t roman. We aren’t trained to endure long close combat. Even if we’re trained to fight, it will be with firearms and not swords
im thinking that, if youre a bodyguard of a person in a city or whatnot, the attacker has a limited window , after a certain point they know that people might come, once the noise and shouting and clash of weapons starts going, or someone calling for help.. say a civilian sees the fight and goes running , the city watch gets called, and now the attackers... are on borrowed time
From what I've researched about the Portuguese Aventureiros, those specializing with the Montante had to be the most athletic knights. So I imagine you'd first and foremost need to be extremely physically fit to be able to use these swords. Especially if the purpose of the Montantieros (as I like to call them) was crowd control; as seen in this video.
@@GaiusCaligula234 Portuguese Sea Battles Volume 1 covers the Montante being used in battle by the Portuguese knights and even their enemies were so amazed they couldn't help but praise them. Volume II covers another event where an Aventureiro, wielding a Montante, held off Chinese troops before being killed by cannon shot. It was the opinions of these historians that the Aventureiros had to be extremely athletic to cut an unarmored opponent in half; which if the sources are to be trusted was the most common kind of enemy the Portuguese had in the far east.
Ofcourse you couldn't do that for a 10nhour battle. No one did. In actual medevil warfare you weren't fighting 100% of the time. It wasn't always a scrum, just like modern day battles aren't entirely a huge firefight.
In an X-on-1 fight with a greatsword, how practical/safe would a low sweep to catch an opponents knee be? I know it'd be armoured, but I imagine a strike there would potentially significantly hamper that opponent and may give you just a bit more breathing room.
Something people forget is that you sre holding a greatsword. And it looks quite massive. Those things weigh a lot. So doing this to get out of the situation fast will obviously tire you out. But standing there for 10 minutes trying to get 5 attackers to back off by blocking and stabbing will also tire you out. Its better to solve a situation fast instead of being on the defensive for a long time, especially if you will be as tired in the end no matter what you choose. Take control with your energy, dont waste it
They don't weight as much as you think. Its a persistent myth that being able to hold and wield a greatsword is a skill reserved for people that spend all day benching small trucks or people that watch too much anime. You'd probably run out of breath before your arms give out.
@@Cryogenius333 Most two-handed greatswords average around 3KG which doesn't sound like a lot. And it isn't as the weight is centered just a little above the handle. However the problem comes from hitting things and especially hitting someone else's sword. Two swords clashing literally fucks up your arm. Think of hitting a hammer on metal harder than your hammer, it bounces back and your arm stings. So it's not about getting tired because the sword is heavy, but large swords in particular tire you out incredibly quickly. It's the same as fighters in any sport. Jumping around the ring is very easy, taking constant blows and doing quick movements though? Not very easy anymore.
Interesting to see that regardless of what kind of combat it is, violence of action is normally the key to dealing with unfavorable situations. Thanks for sharing!
Finally some practical wisdom. It's so or die... You smash your way through or die trying Besides I've learned in my years of fencing a flailing amateur is harder to hit than a well trained expert. There's a lunatic edge of surprise that goes far
I like that the demo has it very clear that “dancing menacingly” would totally be a thing in a fight when outnumbering; nobody wants to die to create an opening
Would be cool fight scene in a film or an anime where the hero is surrounded and after the fight he's collapsing to his knees grasping for air. You as a viewer would feel how hefty that fight was.
You also have to remember on a battlefield you have fellow soldiers on the battlefield. If you manage to survive getting tired, there are others to take your place while you rest and then rotate back in
Yes, although how this rotation works in practice is still up for debate, as very few actual research on that has been done. I'd love to try adding that to sparring somehow though. :)
Also wouldn’t the greatsword user, typically a guard if I’m remembering correctly, be able to call for help? You only need to be able to fight until your friends arrive.
Greatswords keep getting misinterpreted. They were used with other weapons around them or as special units meant to push an enemy hard. They're great guard weapons because you can fight so many people at once, but we do see them used on the battlefield with more tighter and safer motions because you've got literally hundreds of other guys around you.
Yeah you said it good “you need to get yourself unsurrounded” because otherwise you’re dead now is the time to spend all that energy you’ve been saving because yeah you might only hold out one or two minutes but that’s one or two minutes you have to defeat the opponents or wait for friendly forces to reach you
They show this well in a disadvantaged duel in the storm light archive. One warrior against four others. In the beginning they are hesitant cause they know the one guy is really good. He is also backed up to a wall but then he figures out that he may be able to get a win if he rushes all of them at once and gets them disorganized. In the start to the maneuver it works pretty well but these fighters are all well armored and eventually adapt. Still cool to know it’s realistic to some measure
Ya know, this is a lot funnier considering that pole arms are significantly better overall in combat, so using a great sword as a pole arm is just like “??? Huh????? What??”
In a fight, adrenaline defies all expectations. People have been shot in the lunhs or heart, and kept fighting for half an hour or longer before succumbing to their wounds.
This is what i like about how short dnd battles are (in-game time, not real time lol). Rounds are 6 seconds each, so fights rarely last more than a minute. People often forget that in real life, an unorganized fight is measured in seconds, not minutes
One more important detail. Once the sword is moving, it takes more energy to stop it and start a new motion than it does to transfer that current momentum into another direction. You save energy by keeping the sword moving in circular motions.
Considering how cool great swords are and the fact that fancy looking flourishes and spins are ACTUALLY viable tactics when using one, I’m surprised that they aren’t more common in fantasy.
For more efficient healing I recommend using shotgun instead of the feedbacker (the blue arm) The weapons have three variants: blue, green and red (although as for now only the revolver has them all). They can be crafted with over world materials at the start of every level in the terminals (these yellow arcade looking things). Now onto what the variants do Revolver: -Piercer (blue)- alt fire shoots a piercing beam that goes through enemies. The beam counts as a hitscan attack (it’s gonna be important later) -Marksman (green)- secondary attack let’s you throw coins in the air and ricochet any HITSCAN attack off of these coins. So yes you can ricochet secondary shots of red and blue revolver variants. This will result in +ULTRARICOSHOT style bonus. BUT you can also ricochet the orange beam of malicious face (the floating stone block guy, commonly known in the community as Maurice). Such action will result in +CHARGEBACK style bonus. You can also punch coins -sharpshooter (red)- similar to piercer but alt fire ricochets off of surfaces and pierces enemies. It’s also hitscan There’s also an alternate variant of the revolver which increases the damage of the revolver at the cost of its firing speed. I don’t if it’s possible to acquire in the mod tho Shotgun: -Core eject (blue)- alt fire shoots a core that acts as a grenade. Primary fire count as projectiles which means you can parry them. It makes them go faster and explode on impact. This results in +PROJECTILE BOOST style bonus. -Pump charge (green)- alt fire pumps the shotgun which increases the amount of pellets shot. Be careful with the third pump because after firing there’s gonna be an explosion. However you can avoid it by dashing right as you fire Nailgun: -attractor (blue)- let’s you fire a harpoon that attracts the nails shot from the gun -overheat (green)- alt fire let’s you shoot overheated nails after charging them first with primary fire
Also if it's a large pitched battle the guys "waiting you out" may not actually have as much time as they think. Battles can swing in different directions and while they might have you surrounded right now, in a minute or two your friends might show up. So it's in their best interests to end you quickly, same as it's in your best interests to end them quickly.
The enemy side just needs a sacrifice to catch the blade with their torso, yeah the greatsword can slice straight through them if it's heavy enough, sharp enough, or has enough momentum, but if communication is used and the timing is good then the blade can be slowed down just enough to get in close and take the win. Also when he was using those movements while surrounded the blade was more up when circling behind him, if the guy in the black hoodie and bright pants towards the right half-way through charged instead of backing up and waiting he could've gotten a hit in (that is if he was quick enough and ducked down a little, he could've went for the lower legs then the neck)
And this is why dagger and knive throwing are an essential skill for all warriors. Also, you can use half swording, specially if you got gloves and/or your long sword's/hand-and-a-half blade is less sharpened mid length, precisely to grab the blade, in otder to stop the great sword's strong, yet not that strong swing without breaking your guard and get hit regardless, specially if you close in on the center of rotation (the great sword holder's hand) where less momentum is being transmitted, which you can finish by either a quick pommel to the face, since you're already in that position, assuming you reacted in time (also, foot and hip work is important so the momentum of the great sword swing doesn't dislocate anything because it was absorbed only by your arms instead of shared collectively with your core and legs.). Or by letting go of your sword right after the moment of impact before your opponent reacts to them being blocked, to grab your opponent's dominant sword hand with one of yours (the one closest to the hand guard) and nicking with with your side arm dagger/vambrace concealed, by which I mean an actual knife sheathed between the vambrace and the gambeson, not some video game wrist blade), or even your own opponent's dagger if you got them pickpocket skills.
Alot of people will look at this and say what's the point it's warping, etc. But every principle he's talking about applies in unarmed combat as well as, combined arms warfare, urban warfare, defensive shooting, room clearing, etc. The ways you apply the principles change but the principles themselves are still the same and as drones become more ubiquitous the principles of energy investment are going to become quite literal.
Those who conserve their energy whilst outnumbered are saving what remains to climb the staircase to heaven, only to then realize its accessed through an elevator.
apparently the romans had a system where soldiers cycled through so they could rest up for a bit b4 going back and i assume many armies had similar systems in place.
I like how people think fatigue works like some video game stamina bar. Most people who face life threatening scenarios completely destroy ligaments and tendons due to lack of oxygen in muscles.
Kung fu movies perfected the art of drawn out fight scenes, but the reality is that a short series of cuts or blows can end a fight. Think of a block of cheese; you cut the block in half and the fight is over. It's that fast, that impressive.
I'm also assuming that adrenaline is quite the savior whwn it comes to energy. Yeah, you'll be physically "dead" tomorrow if you survive, but in the now your mind is making sure you have everything you need to keep going.
It's quite a natural consequence of the dynamics of a group fight. If you manage the space properly, there should only be one person capable of safely attacking, and by the time they start doing that, you should already be underway to stop them.
Additionally, greatswords both aren't as heavy as media depicts but interia means it's easier to keep something in motion than go 0 to 60. It's not infinite stamina but it's not lifting giant weights at the olympics or a strong man contest.
The entire point of using a two-handed sword is to create distance between yourself and your opponent. It can be very physically taxing if you don't know what you're doing or your technique is totally garbage. I'd say it took me the longest amount of time to feel even somewhat comfortable swinging that thing around in general, never mind form or technique. I can use one if I absolutely must, but I don't know that it'll ever be my very first choice. There's a guy at the place I train at who's been doing it for about 10 years longer than myself. He's absolutely amazing to watch. I know if I keep at it I'd probably improve greatly. I just don't know if I have the drive, and now that one of my shoulders needs full replacement, I don't know if I'll have the strength and coordination.
One of my favourite table top RPG systems is the Swedish game Eon which has a fairly robust stamina system. Every action causes stamina loss but you can forego actions to recover stamina. In addition, when two people are fighting in the game, one is always on the offense and one is on defense and if you rest while on the offense your opponent can regain the initiative and become the attacker and defensive actions cost stamina as well. If a fight last for a while it becomes a balancing act of trying to seize and maintain initiative while managing your stamina as well and when you're up against multiple opponents you're at a huge disadvantage since they'll have an easier time gaining the initiative and can cover eachother to rest and recover stamina. Closest thing to a simulation game in ttrpg form.
@VirtualFechtschule actually, fuck it, I'mma go full autism if you don't mind: So here's how one singular attack is determined in Eon (3rd edition): First determine who has initiative. From a neutral position this is done by a contested roll using a value determined by a combination of your Vision, your Dexterity/Agility (Rörlighet in Swedish) as well as your combat experience, which has a greater influence on this number. Melee weapons also have two numbers to add to this value, one for close range and one for long range, linger weapons make it easier to gain initiative from a distance while shorter weapons make it easier when up close. Once an attacker has been determined, the attacker and defender chooses their actions. While there are quite a few options, let's just do an attack now. Attacks come in three different damage types, Slash, Pierce and Bludgeon. Many weapons are capable of all or at least two types but are usually better at one and worse at others. A halberd can be used to Slash or Thrust, a sword as well, a warhammer may be swung with the spike first to pierce, a glaive may be swung with the blunt end first to bludgeon. Each weapon has a dice value for each damage type it can do which is added to your base damage of that type. Your base damage is derived from strength for bludgeoning, dexterity for piercing and the average of the two for slashing. Some weapons however let you use different stats for different damage types, the aforementioned warhammer for instance letting you pierce with strength and bows always using strength for damage. When the attacker makes an attack they choose a damage type and can also choose to aim high or low (or at a specific body part, which increases the difficulty if the attack). The attacker can also choose to swing harder or quicker, basically committing really hard to an attack or making a safer poke, which affects the opponents ability to take back initiative next turn. The defender chooses a defensive action, the difficulty of which is affected by how the opponent attacks. A dodge, for example, can be a step back which is good against slashing and bludgeoning, or a side step which is better against thrusting. You can even duck high attacks or jump low attacks, though this is rather risky. You can also block with a shield (pretty easy) or parry with a weapon (usually harder). Attacker makes a roll, if it succeeds the defender makes a roll, if it succeeds it is defended. Blocking or parrying leads to a check to see if either weapon is damaged which is then noted on the character sheet, can even result in a weapon or shield breaking mid fight. Oh, and btw, all attack and defense rolls are affected by stamina, becoming more difficult the more exhausted you are. If an attack lands, the GM consults a hit table and rolls a d100 to determine where the attack lands. There's basically six tables. Three for slashing or bludgeoning high, low or mid and three for piercing high, low or mid. If you aimed at a specific body part, there's a d10 table for each to determine what section of the part you hit, for instance a hit to the head can hit the skull, face or neck. Iirc, there are 27 possible hit zones. Once it's determined where the attack lands, the attacker rolls damage. Damage is always tolled using a number of d6s determined using your base damage and weapon, the twist is that any sixes are removed and you roll 2 additional dice which may also have sixes removed and more dice added resulting in theoretically limitless numbers (called the Limitless system). Then armor is subtracted from the damage, armor being dependant on the hit area; a helmet without a visor won't protect your face, if you have a breast plate but bare arms your arms won't be protected, full plate armor but you forgot your gauntlets at home? Better hope your fingers aren't hit. Once a damage number is determined, if it is under 10 it is a "superficial damage" usually doesn't do much but over 10 then the GM consults yet another table, there is one for each body part for each damage type. This serious damage roll can be a lot of things, a Slash to the thigh can nick an artery, a warhammer to the arm can break bones and a lucky pierce to the face might just go straight to the brain. Each serious damage comes with a multiplier applied to the damage number and possibly a side effect like a bone break or brain damage or even dismemberment (most of which can be resisted with a toughness check vs. the damage). Damage is tracked in four separate metrics. Physical trauma, Pain, Bleeding (how much blood your losing every round right now) and Blood Loss (how much of your blood is already on the floor). Different kinds of serious damage causes different types of damage. An opened artery causes profuce bleeding, a kick to the nuts (yes, "genitalia" is one possible hit area) causes more pain than actual physical trauma and a rapier to the brain causes enough trauma you might as well roll a new character immediately. These numbers are used to determine the difficulty of Consciousness checks (affected by Pain, Blood loss and Stamina) and Death checks (affected by Trauma and Blood loss). Fail a Consciousness check and you're out cold, fail a Death check and you are not alive anymore. These checks are made whenever you receive damage in the relevant category (which includes blood loss from the bleeding you might still be suffering from after the other guy is dead already). Quick aside, Mcertain kinds of magic may cause trauma with no pain and some magicians can boost their magic by causing damage that way to themselves, had a player accidentally kill himself while charging his spells once. So, once we've made like 7 rolls on different tables we have now resolved 1 attack. You can possibly make more than one attack at the cost of added difficulty on each roll. After all attacks are done you have successfully completed 1 round of combat, roughly 4 seconds real time. God I love Eon.
@@BobTheismthat sounds great by it begs the question: how practical is it to roll these many times? Like in vampire the masquerade combat really elongates the game because you have to roll a bunch of times You say it's four seconds but idk it just sounds like more Can you share this about it please as the system really intrgues me (i was actually thinking about creating a system like that myself with incredibly similar mecanics, i'd rather use something that already exists) it would be worth to learn sweedish for to play this (and for sweedish folk music damn that sounds great)
If youre in a situation where youre either gonna die or you can fight to take a few of them out with you and/or possibly survive id would def choose the latter
If I'm the last guy standing from a 3v1 and my opponent starts charging me with a greatsword, I wouldn't be jogging backwards. That's the time when you just turn around and sprint.
