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Greg Doucette vs Mike Israetel: Volume, Intensity & Training To Failure 

OmarIsuf
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29 окт 2024

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Комментарии : 5 тыс.   
@OmarIsuf
@OmarIsuf 4 года назад
This video makes more sense after watching the previous videos for context: 1. Greg talks about Jeff Nippard and Training Volume ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-39YvjFRiGac.html 2. Mike talks about training volume, responding to Greg ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-Ke1z1NXUBG0.html 3. Greg responds to Mike's video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-GLhBQk0A9uo.html Then this video is the culmination of everything. Apologies for the minor sound discrepancy of Greg's audio vs Mike's. Greg was on vacation in Mexico and was generous enough to do the interview while on vacation. None of us are great with technology so we decided to roll with it. Regardless, there is A LOT of quality information in here. Thanks to the guests, their info is linked in the description. Time stamps down below! If you enjoyed the video, consider giving it a like and leave a comment below who you'd like to see interviewed next. TIME STAMPS 0:00 Intro 1:11 Discussion Guests Introduction 5:02 Defining what Volume and Intensity mean 7:17 Defining “Training to Failure” 10:39 How do we determine optimal training volume for an individual? 22:39 Talking about deload techniques and the validity of training with the 10% rule. 41:41 Discussing the variety of lifters with individual training techniques. 54:31 When is training to failure conditionally beneficial? 1:07:02 Defining the stimulus to fatigue ratio 1:21:10 Closing Statements
@ynots0625
@ynots0625 4 года назад
Greg didn’t have his hearing antenna in so I’m double impressed he wasn’t constantly yelling “WHAT!?”. More of these please Mr Isuf. Thank you.
@francispeeney7133
@francispeeney7133 4 года назад
Thanks for this Omar, didn't think it would happen with Greg saying no to Mike, loved the video and a bit surprised by the comments. 🤔
@alexandremedawar607
@alexandremedawar607 4 года назад
What was the true purpose for inviting Greg?
@shannonmorgan4190
@shannonmorgan4190 4 года назад
Alexandre Medawar Mike probably asked to have him on so he could try to embarrass him and Omar accepted because it’ll get lots of views. Just a guess though.
@alexandremedawar607
@alexandremedawar607 4 года назад
@@shannonmorgan4190 tbh this discussion came off as a stage for addressing accusations towards Jeff...friend-driven intervention. Although Dr. Mike owns authority regarding large aspects of this debate's subject matter, neither he or Omar investigated the successes Greg may or may not have with coaching. After years of this, im curious to see what he has accomplished in others across the board vs successes with his own genetic advantages, etc
@omnigodx11
@omnigodx11 4 года назад
It's not the same without Greg calling me an idiot
@danielbentley6000
@danielbentley6000 4 года назад
metamacros lol
@jonaaldas
@jonaaldas 4 года назад
Lmfao!
@valsflor1686
@valsflor1686 4 года назад
He did call us morons, I'm satisfied.
@SuperTaekwondo23
@SuperTaekwondo23 4 года назад
The Doc vs The PhD, good one
@Lyosha.
@Lyosha. 4 года назад
I personally prefer 'moroon' makes me feel more sophisticated
@r9nger
@r9nger 4 года назад
They said avengers infinity wars was the greatest crossover ever.
@OneDerscoreOneder
@OneDerscoreOneder 4 года назад
@PoolDesTodes 133 no. it's about whether or not it's an amazing crossover
@OneDerscoreOneder
@OneDerscoreOneder 4 года назад
@PoolDesTodes 133 the underlying message to what he's saying is that it's a great crossover... how could it be just any one?
@77dris
@77dris 4 года назад
Michael Faraday Iron Man vs Thanos
@OneDerscoreOneder
@OneDerscoreOneder 4 года назад
@PoolDesTodes 133 that's not op's fault
@incoathwetrust4612
@incoathwetrust4612 4 года назад
@PoolDesTodes 133 Agreed. I'm getting sick of seeing this shitty comment on every collab/debate video
@bakters
@bakters 4 года назад
"You certainly have very low opinion of your viewership. Do they know this?" - Yes, we do!
@rajanyc1342
@rajanyc1342 4 года назад
😂😂💯
@LewisPC
@LewisPC 4 года назад
HAVE A HARDER OPINION THAN LAST TIME!
@Oyashio202
@Oyashio202 4 года назад
Confirmed he never watched a video of greg's lol.
@angeb7690
@angeb7690 4 года назад
Yes, I need to be called a moron every now and again 😜
@janeto1984
@janeto1984 4 года назад
is he applying doc Greg should stop yelling at us???????
@asfaltasfalt1
@asfaltasfalt1 2 месяца назад
I feel like mike was holding in some serious rage inside.
@Yet_ANS
@Yet_ANS Месяц назад
to be fair greg has been shit talking mike and his physique
@timatkins7039
@timatkins7039 4 года назад
Well done to Greg for keeping his cool at Mike's passive-aggressive behavior.
@TrainWithCaleb
@TrainWithCaleb 4 года назад
Tim Atkins two sides to every story, they had conversations prior to this where Greg was short and rude sooo believe half of what you see and none of what you hear
@Huffman_Tree
@Huffman_Tree 4 года назад
Huh, that was interesting. As someone who likes Mike and watches/reads lots of his content, Mike is usually very good at being charitable and "arguing to convince". The talk started off very well and I was very positively surprised about the way Greg asked Mike for advice, but then for some reason Mike got very harsh when talking about Greg's 10% rule. Bit unfortunate, good on Greg for being chill all throughout.
@TrainWithCaleb
@TrainWithCaleb 4 года назад
s d Oof, really won me over to your line of thinking there lol. Friendly advice and idc if you take it or leave it. When debating or arguing, never use nouns to generalize someone, it completely discredits you. Must be a Greg fan lol.
@mortsnerd5100
@mortsnerd5100 4 года назад
@Rude One Yeah, but Greg's behavior comes across as harmless schtick, whereas that Mike guy really seems like a petulant douchebag.
@OctaBech
@OctaBech 4 года назад
Mikes facade burst and we got to see his true side, while Greg, well he has always been open about who and what he is; the Parrot from Aladin with a doctoral degree. Caleb Parham - only dumb people would take your word as fact when you have nothing to back it up with and there is a 1½hour long video going against your claim.
@gamebredmasvidal504
@gamebredmasvidal504 4 года назад
Greg left his ego at the door for this one, Mike didn't.
@rolandoledesma1885
@rolandoledesma1885 4 года назад
Gamebred Masvidal deadasss
@johnwig285
@johnwig285 4 года назад
@@rolandoledesma1885 Its pretty funny how ppl are easily misled by herd mentality blindly jumping on the bandwagon hating on Mike accusing him of having superiority complex just because he has a PhD. The underlying reason why he was so passive aggressive was that Greg had made videos abt Jeff Nippard and thinks he works out like a pussy. Mike sees Jeff as a friend hence he was defensive and aggresive, he sees it as a platform to prove Greg wrong instead of a having debate. While it was unprofessional of Mike to bring in emotions into what was supposed to be a scientific professional debate, you all dont get to scrutinise his credibility over an attitude for defending his friend. Maybe if yall check out Mikes videos, you will finf quality as well just like Greg. Both are great youtubers, instead of further adding fuel to the fire, we should be bringing them togethwr settle the beef and have quality debates
@cosmogamer9914
@cosmogamer9914 4 года назад
hope you KO usman
@tooshlong
@tooshlong 4 года назад
Gamebred Masvidal Greg is fukin harmless man. It’s all bantz. He sells proper sound and even when disagreeing with the likes of Israetel in his own video he is proper respectful of his expertise.
@timcastro7766
@timcastro7766 4 года назад
Gamebred Masvidal exactly..
@jaguar1224
@jaguar1224 4 года назад
As much as Mike says that Greg is assuming most people don’t train hard, Mike is making a massive assumption that most people do in fact train hard. From the gyms I’ve gone too (maybe different for you), most people are just walking through their sets and those people don’t understand or appreciate the science behind lifting. So although what Greg is saying may be arbitrary and oversimplification, it’s easier to understand and perhaps a better method of managing fatigue as it’s been proven that many beginners and intermediates (most of Greg and Omar’s audience) tend to under report their max reps. So even though Mike’s method is more accurate, the common beginner and intermediate lifters will most likely mess up the execution of Mike’s method. Greg’s method is easier to use as it’s based on a number rather than an objective feeling. I lean towards Greg on this one.
@Jmack7861
@Jmack7861 4 года назад
And that’s exactly what he said when explaining why he says the things he does regarding this subject
@samueljohnson5226
@samueljohnson5226 4 года назад
@Eugene Stoner yeah I'm one of those people but I still don't leave nothing on the table at the gym. You don't have to be on gear or be a spoiled rich boy to train to failure all the time !
@logand5996
@logand5996 4 года назад
I'd make the argument that finding ideal training for beginners is a waste of time as they'll make progress from almost anything. Time and consistency will take any beginner to intermediate and THEN you can worry about the best way to train
@DannieRay23
@DannieRay23 4 года назад
I try to train hard, but I suck at estimating how hard i'm going. The methods of the science-based community had me second guessing everythings , but Greg's approach actually helped me to concentrate more on the work rather than the theory and my workouts got harder and better.
@fabianorossi32
@fabianorossi32 4 года назад
But don't you think that Beginners should always start training under the supervision of an experienced personal trainer, in order to learn how to apply what Dr.Mike is talking about accurately and with perfect technique , instead of wasting years training like shit in the gym (like i did ) and ending up with injuries /muscle imbalances/suboptimal results ...
@nickrekietalaw2107
@nickrekietalaw2107 4 года назад
Omar: "How about you guys describe volume & intensity starting w/ you Greg." Greg: "Sure volume is just sets & reps & total weight to keep it simple." Mike: "So actually..."
@mojorhythm
@mojorhythm 3 года назад
Its a crime to introduce nuance and depth into the conversation.
@MrTas44
@MrTas44 3 года назад
Rhys Wilkins complex ideas are illegal
@ilhamjaa5059
@ilhamjaa5059 3 года назад
@@mojorhythm disagree
@MrCmon113
@MrCmon113 3 года назад
@@MrTas44 It's not even complex and Greg agreed with it. Indeed Greg gave in every single time. He's just of the opinion that his idiot fans deserve misinformation.
@AngryOscillator
@AngryOscillator 3 года назад
@@MrCmon113 I went from Mike to Greg because Mike had me complicating something that is actually quite fkin simple; until you reach the elite level. Mike's method will help you gain the exponentially difficult last 10% of stimulus/growth/ect but for most people what Mike talks about isn't relevant. There is no show to prep for, no contest, no rush. If I'm getting 90% from Greg and its easy and simple then thats fine with me, trying to get 100% from Mike fkd with my head and led to making all kinds of stupid mistakes. I'd go even simpler and say 'Volume is the amount of work you do' - for most people, most of the time, that is enough. Followed Mike for a year or two (was actually on the RP vids when this originally happened) and gained a load of knowledge but little muscle. Follow Greg for 6 months and I've never seen growth like this. Once it stops/slows I'll go back to Mike, assuming I care enough about it, to eek out those last percentiles of growth. Mike is for sports hipsters who like to toss themselves off with studies and debate clubs while Greg is for people who like to worry less and just get after it in the gym. Also complex means 'consisting of many different and connected parts' - it WAS complex which is the reason why it took Mike like 6x longer to explain his complex definition than Greg did his simple definition. Complex doesn't have to be difficult.
@77dris
@77dris 4 года назад
The vast majority of gyms I go to, I see people that Greg describes... VERY little intensity. This is true at the small gyms, and even university gym I currently am at (though intensity is better at the university slightly).
@rampageGentil
@rampageGentil 4 года назад
77dris same man
@facundozapata7364
@facundozapata7364 4 года назад
So Greg's advice applies to general population folks while Mike's advice applies to people who actually train?
@doyouevenlift-qq4zd
@doyouevenlift-qq4zd 4 года назад
@truth seeker That's not training hard lol, just being stupid.
@Dexatron
@Dexatron 4 года назад
Mike is insanely out of touch.
@mkl1464
@mkl1464 4 года назад
My homies at my university gym grunts and yells while doing 15kg skullcrushers
@ernooi3657
@ernooi3657 4 года назад
Mike sounds so spiteful here. If anything, this video just made me subscribe to Greg. Also, I totally understand Mike’s philosophy on training, but Greg’s training guidelines are so much better for a layman
@akay5036
@akay5036 4 года назад
Greg's results and his clients results speak for themselves.
@mrchariybrown
@mrchariybrown 4 года назад
You meant to say "for morons" (Greg's words - not mine).
@pekahauhnar2310
@pekahauhnar2310 4 года назад
Yup
@drboyton1
@drboyton1 4 года назад
Greg goes by what he feels and what he sees with his clients. Mike's training recommendations come from his experience with himself and his clients, and loads of research studies and literature reviews. And seriously, his stuff isn't that hard to understand, unless you're like: "Me lift weights, me strong"
@drboyton1
@drboyton1 4 года назад
@Christopher Huber No I want saying that at all, however, for this example I would say that I'm average. There would be a lot above my understanding level, and a lot below. But you are correct in one sense: Mike's training recommendations only apply to 1 in 10 people. The rest don't care about maximal hypertrophy, and they can just do whatever for 3 years and get sufficient gains to keep them happy. Mike isn't talking to those people.
@stepfonbaca9976
@stepfonbaca9976 4 года назад
Respect for Greg just went up, becaue he listens and is open to opinions. Respect for Mike.. kinda went down. When you think you're the smartest guy in the room, you can come off looking vainglorious..
@monkeyxpwner
@monkeyxpwner 4 года назад
Mike is very intelligent, but makes the mistake of thinking everyone (or most people) are as into the minutia of training and as intelligent as him. Which, to anyone that has met the average lifter or been to an average gym.........is not true.
@stepfonbaca9976
@stepfonbaca9976 4 года назад
@@monkeyxpwner, you havd one of the greatest comments I have ever read; that is exactly it!
@HardHardMaster
@HardHardMaster 2 месяца назад
So you fell for Greg's little trick of playing innocent after all the garbage he threw at Mike and his friends before.
@stepfonbaca9976
@stepfonbaca9976 2 месяца назад
@@HardHardMaster 4 years later ⚰️💀 😂😂😂
@bens7686
@bens7686 3 года назад
I don’t care about personality and niceties. I care about what is true. Mike clearly knows more, and his advice is going to save me a lot of the wasted wheel spinning I’ve been getting with Greg’s “train harder than last time” mantra.
@Paul-om1zs
@Paul-om1zs 2 года назад
The question is if RU-vid channels are the most efficient way to learn about fitness. From the perspective of information value and learning faster, technical literature may be better. But RU-vid channels make more fun to learn from. Its maybe the best to combine both for learning.
@jzen1455
@jzen1455 2 года назад
The fundamentals of strength training are quite simple and have been beaten to death over and over. Greg's loud and comedic delivery allows him to stand out from the massive sea of content.
@soonahero
@soonahero Год назад
@@Paul-om1zs about 0% of the population has the training to consume technical literature.
@asketillus8679
@asketillus8679 Год назад
@@soonahero rounded to a whole number that’s most likely true. Most folks read the introduction and conclusion to a study, and that’s it. Zero interest in methodology or constituents.
@soonahero
@soonahero Год назад
@@asketillus8679 it doesn’t matter that they read it verbatim. A kindergartner could do that. They just can’t process it
@ProductionsAnonymous
@ProductionsAnonymous 4 года назад
Bruh I was literally about to sleep. I guess recovery is going out the window tonight.
@matt1115
@matt1115 4 года назад
Lol same
@joshuah3691
@joshuah3691 4 года назад
Yikes
@cg01yoy
@cg01yoy 4 года назад
Exact same here 😂
@simonn611
@simonn611 4 года назад
We all know recovery doesn't mean shit, as long as you consumed at least 80g of protein during your anabolic window
@Notinserviceij
@Notinserviceij 4 года назад
Brain gainz tho bruh?
@goofedplaysgames
@goofedplaysgames 4 года назад
Most people I've seen in the gym, do not in fact, work hard.
@defeqel6537
@defeqel6537 4 года назад
As (somewhat of) a beginner, I generally see younger people training quite hard (imo), but 40+ generally not that hard.
@dennisnordlund902
@dennisnordlund902 4 года назад
Defeqel i see kind of the opposite, at least in my gym in sweden. And when me and my wife train really hard, people stare their eyes out.
@JmgStrength
@JmgStrength 4 года назад
I think Mike is just not getting what Greg means when he says, “train harder”. 1 year after original comment: This video was my first exposure to Mike’s knowledge. After consuming a fair bit of Renaissance Periodization content and Greg’s content, I have to give RP the win. Mike’s content has helped my training way more than “harder than last time”.
@alexanabolic5099
@alexanabolic5099 4 года назад
What do you expect from someone saying 5 set of squat is nothing and he could move the world with such small volume...
@respeezy
@respeezy 4 года назад
I think the problem here was mike wasn’t even trying to get anything that Greg was saying he was just trying to get him on mistakes and point them out
@samlowry9521
@samlowry9521 4 года назад
I dont get this train harder thing either. Most bros max out everyday at the gym. Not a good idea obviously but I dont understand how they would benefit from ''train harder''
@WantToSeeMyBigBen
@WantToSeeMyBigBen 4 года назад
Fernando Reyes most bro’s max out at their 1RM. But not at 10-15 reps ... because that is what really is intense...
@alexhagedorn1365
@alexhagedorn1365 4 года назад
@@samlowry9521 it's just progressive overload.. if you do 3 sets of 10 with the same weight your whole life youll stop adapting... Eventually you have to add weight, or more reps, etc to continue to grow.. Which would be harder than last time....
@jordemort5359
@jordemort5359 3 года назад
Mike lookin like he's using a beauty filter
@beauhardt4125
@beauhardt4125 3 года назад
With crazy GH horns
@I_suck-_-so_what
@I_suck-_-so_what 4 месяца назад
So you're saying he's beautiful? Nice.
@HUGEFLYINGWHALE
@HUGEFLYINGWHALE 2 месяца назад
😂
@realhollywood
@realhollywood 4 года назад
Every time Mike blinked he was powering up his passive aggression machine
@rickymurray
@rickymurray 4 года назад
That's absolutely true
@rc-1983
@rc-1983 4 года назад
Oh man my christhmas tree doesnt blink that much.
@baam25th31
@baam25th31 4 года назад
@@rc-1983 think it's due to some medical condition I forgot the details Been a while.
@ntwalipat2
@ntwalipat2 4 года назад
Lmaooo, these 2 have 2 completely different personalities! But I wonder whose personality is more likable...😅
@davenportbarbell734
@davenportbarbell734 4 года назад
Hahahahaha
@bushras1942
@bushras1942 4 года назад
Mike played the "I know it all card", he seems to think he's more qualified and didn't want to listen to what greg has to say, came across as really condescending and quite frankly annoying, respect greg for keeping his cool
@abelpalmer552
@abelpalmer552 3 года назад
He kept twisting his words, he didn't listen to what Greg said, tried to trip him up, and just shows he knows nothing about the power of Greg's message.
@malikcallen4437
@malikcallen4437 3 года назад
Please watch the video with less bias mike is very critical that's all if u can't take criticism dont debate
@hhfbko
@hhfbko 3 года назад
@@malikcallen4437 no
@llamaczech
@llamaczech 3 года назад
@@malikcallen4437 dude, Mike literally spent the video arguing against progressive overload because Greg uses the phrase "train harder than last time" to convey the exact same message. The whole time he kept childishly bringing it back to "oh well he's not training hard enough" or making it about training past failure harder and harder even after what was meant was conveyed and it was conceded by Greg that he could word his message better (even though its completely clear if you have more knowledge of what he says beyond skimming through a few videos because subscribers tell you this guy was talking shit)
@petergusev999
@petergusev999 3 года назад
@@llamaczech Mike's entire argument wasn't with the idea, it was with Greg's presentation of the idea.
@77dris
@77dris 4 года назад
Greg was correct in his obesity numbers. Quoting Medscape: "For men, a percentage of body fat greater than 25% defines obesity. For women, over 33% defines obesity"
@baconfromhell666
@baconfromhell666 4 года назад
I have never heard obesity or being overweight being defined by anything other than weight relative to height
@doulie7687
@doulie7687 4 года назад
@@baconfromhell666 weight realtive to height doesn't work. A guy 5"10 240 pounds is overweight in that term, but in reality he is 240 pounds at 10 percent bodyfat, so he is fucking jacked and lean and not obese
@baconfromhell666
@baconfromhell666 4 года назад
@@doulie7687 Yeah, I totally agree that it's in no way a good measurement of health and I've never claimed it to be, but it's a measurement to show if you're overweight or obese. Maybe I'm alone here, but I never thought that overweight=unhealthy. But when we're talking about being a good measurement of health, then neither is bodyfat, because it's so incredibly hard to calculate correctly. So that shouldn't be used either, because someone that may be 20% bf may "feel" that they're only 13% or the method they used to measure is far off.
@kylen6430
@kylen6430 4 года назад
baconfromhell666 BMI is merely a screening tool for obesity.
@Aurelius131
@Aurelius131 4 года назад
@@kylen6430 Also it doesn't count for muscle mass, just weight in general.
@jessevetrone9479
@jessevetrone9479 4 года назад
Greg "yeah volume... volume is the thing that your editor needs to turn up on my audio channel"
@xkidmidnightx
@xkidmidnightx 4 года назад
Next do Jason blaha vs layne norton.
@meowchinchilla4009
@meowchinchilla4009 4 года назад
xkidmidnightx non negotiable
@arnbassbaritone
@arnbassbaritone 4 года назад
Fatha needs 100k to debate.
@Dru1D_
@Dru1D_ 4 года назад
Fake Merc Blaha vs AlphaDestiny
@vardaspavarde8480
@vardaspavarde8480 4 года назад
Beta Destiny
@Oho159
@Oho159 4 года назад
@@vardaspavarde8480 outlift him ;)
@SisyphusFlesh
@SisyphusFlesh 4 года назад
Greg method is simple, and he is totally right about most people don't train hard enough.
@GinoNL
@GinoNL 4 года назад
He’s not simple. He just doesn’t overcomplicate
@latsblaster
@latsblaster 4 года назад
Yeah, because most People aren't interested.
@Fuckingboredrn
@Fuckingboredrn 2 года назад
Mike ate this man lol
@lmdoinraysmom
@lmdoinraysmom Год назад
Most people i see. Young guys at gym try way too hard so idk man
@everblades4
@everblades4 Месяц назад
@@Fuckingboredrn mike is a roided asshole, that speaks in complexities that the majority of people dont even understand
@gustavoperez9721
@gustavoperez9721 4 года назад
Greg is a master of Brevity (keeping it simple and straight to the point). Mike weaponizes his PHD by using jargon and overcomplicating simple things. Unbiasedly, Greg one this debate by a landslide.
@KhanSphere
@KhanSphere 2 месяца назад
Won* Idiot.
@MJou8
@MJou8 2 года назад
Train hard and get injured once then come back to mikes method. This is the best way. I clearly understood my 0 RIR feeling through really hard workout, then now I’m controlling my fatigue perfectly and can estimate my reps in reserve.
@robdiaz6827
@robdiaz6827 2 года назад
Happened to me.... I just trained harder and harder..... Then injuries started..... I didnt know what happened...... I felt tired and tired every week.... Then with this RIR method I finally started making gains....
@mikakoivisto6504
@mikakoivisto6504 Год назад
​@@robdiaz6827Take more rest and less low rep stuff.
@ssonicdeafmonkey
@ssonicdeafmonkey Год назад
I’ve been really good at stopping before injuring myself but I still trained at 0/1 RIR for too long and put myself in a really deep fatigue hole 🥲
@tudoralexandru8740
@tudoralexandru8740 3 месяца назад
train harder doesn t necesarily mean heavier. you clearly did not watch greg s videos
@MJou8
@MJou8 3 месяца назад
@@tudoralexandru8740 I mean both. Heavier, more reps and stretch. You can google Aizawa Hayato workout to see what it looks like “hard workout”
@brycemira2315
@brycemira2315 4 года назад
I don't usually comment on videos, but i'd have to say Greg is right in this one. I feel like im an average viewer and average person that works out and I find it hard to get the motivation to even workout and get in the gym and Greg tells it like it is you gotta get in there and train harder. I have lifted in "average person" gyms for the past 7-8 years through college and after. More people are training like pussies rather than people don't know what they are doing. And even I sometime find myself training like a pussy and not pushing myself by doing a weight that I can do. Especially when you are in there lifting by yourself, because there is just you and its so easy to cheat yourself. So I do find Greg's information spot on.
@mydude176
@mydude176 4 года назад
Yeah..you are right
@Ripheart789
@Ripheart789 4 года назад
@fire trails if you're that sore. Don't train that hard. Going back to working out means you can afford to start slow. Have patience
@fabiotarocasalino257
@fabiotarocasalino257 4 года назад
Thank you
@LewisPC
@LewisPC 4 года назад
@fire trails Thats absolutely fine id say, but you could do 3 sets, a bit farther away from failure, but still heavy, just until you get conditioned to that work and it starts to be easier to recover from (then you can really hammer the workouts home and close to failure with your better work capacity and recover a bit better, not to mention your form will be crisp from the lighter stuff)
@Mistysfedora
@Mistysfedora 4 года назад
Yeah
@zakbraverman
@zakbraverman 4 года назад
Do a push-up every time Omar says “individual” and you’ll be bigger than either Greg or Mike.
@Stridonjerome
@Stridonjerome 4 года назад
How many times? 50? That's easy
@jakubb3368
@jakubb3368 4 года назад
@@Stridonjerome With proper form, full range of motion in 1 set? 99% will fail for sure.
@ozzy5146
@ozzy5146 4 года назад
omar also luvs segue (seg way)
@derinko
@derinko 4 года назад
@@jakubb3368 don't talk for everyone
@steveblah5
@steveblah5 4 года назад
But we'd go to failure and would miss out on all the lower fatigue gainz
@Peds89161
@Peds89161 4 года назад
Greg is going to get so much out of this for his channel. It seemed like Mike was trying so hard to make him look like an idiot with his passive aggressive questioning. Greg took it all in, looked like he was properly listening to advice and remained super humble. Touche.
@bulletproofstrengthsystems9604
@bulletproofstrengthsystems9604 4 года назад
Luke Pedini he’s a super smart guy
@uhsemehicieronlas3
@uhsemehicieronlas3 4 года назад
agree, mike is a smart and educated guy, but he was an ass for no reason
@KenE252525
@KenE252525 4 года назад
As somebody who regularly follows Greg's videos and have the full context of the lead up to this conversation, I actually I don't think Mike had to try to hard to make him look like an idiot. Greg totally got his ass handed to him and it was done effortlessly. Great to see Greg being friendly and humble in this situation but he has little option to be humble when he was so outgunned. Pity he wasn't more humble in the first place. I prefer his videos when he is not ranting on like an angry dickhead.
@Cecat1993
@Cecat1993 4 года назад
@@KenE252525 Mike was being really cocky, mister know-it-all. Science here and science there... It all sounds nice in theory, but like Greg said: 99% of people are morons when it comes to lifting, because it's not something they studied for or deal with on a daily basis. They don't know what failure means, they don't know if they have 2, 3 or even 6 reps in the tank... Hell, I thought I was training close to failure (RPE 9 or whatever) and did 12 reps on my triceps extensions. After watching Greg's videos of him screaming TRAIN HARDER (with good form) I got 17 reps with the same weight and good form... That's 5 reps more ... That's RPE 6 or something... Yeah it burned, it wasn't comfortable, but since then I've been seeing consistent strength and hypertrophy gains.
@pracata732
@pracata732 4 года назад
Glenn same with me!! Ever since I’ve been following Greg’s advice on intensity I’ve been making gains. Even at my Job I’ve been getting positive comments from other employees
@adamsc1181
@adamsc1181 2 года назад
I did find myself spinning in wheels listening to most fitness RU-vid. Greg is a good teacher and educated me enough to be able to listen to guys like renaissance and biolayne and actually get more from their content.
@jonathanbenoza8136
@jonathanbenoza8136 2 месяца назад
those nerds arent good sources of information
@santamen1
@santamen1 Месяц назад
good point
@dkphysique007
@dkphysique007 4 года назад
The guy with hair handled it well, easy to understand. The without hair it’s complicated.
@zack1_157
@zack1_157 4 года назад
Yup. He's one of those people who act like they’re that smart and you that stupid. So dumb no need to complicate it. Just keep it simple.
@Tannhauser62
@Tannhauser62 4 года назад
@@zack1_157 To be fair, you both sound a little bit simple, so I would imagine that you think most people are overcomplicating things.
@BerserkerX
@BerserkerX 4 года назад
@@Tannhauser62 no, Mike really is just over complicating things that aren't that complicated.
@jackcollin1695
@jackcollin1695 3 года назад
He loses hair by complicating stuffs
@jon222-r4j
@jon222-r4j 2 года назад
@@BerserkerX Mike just goes too deep into things bc he was trained to think that deep
@stanbarron4330
@stanbarron4330 4 года назад
Mike is so focused on making greg look bad that any value from this goes right out the window. Greg won this, way more professional.
@spankymcnugget3166
@spankymcnugget3166 4 года назад
yeah right bud mike knows wayyy more then greg, greg just literally said most of his viewers are stupid and he doesn't even know the people that watched his channel. like mikes saying if you don't know what your doing then don't give people advice
@Miscelanou
@Miscelanou 4 года назад
@@spankymcnugget3166 Greg says everybody is stupid, himself included. And Greg knows what he is talking about. Maybe look at his channel or look him up. He has a degree in kinesiology.
@jordypeters1156
@jordypeters1156 4 года назад
@@spankymcnugget3166 I didn't even know who Mike was before this video. He seems so egotistic and was trying to sound too smart which backfired and made him look like an idiot. He also said at the start he didnt have success in neither powerlifting nor bodybuilding, so maybe he should stay away from those topics and stick to martial arts if that is what he is into
@spankymcnugget3166
@spankymcnugget3166 4 года назад
@@jordypeters1156 nah I disagree my man go watch him and the mountaindogs interview on steriods great interview like greg said he was using a lot of juice in his prier days yeah he came across as a dick in this interview just because he doesn't like greg and the advice he gives. I mean greg just said here that he think most of his viewers are dumb idiots which doesn't say much for him
@peterhagtharp4263
@peterhagtharp4263 4 года назад
@@spankymcnugget3166 does that hurt your feelings?
@ivo3396
@ivo3396 4 года назад
Mike looked disinterested through most of the discussion. He was condescending and had the arrogance of an overpaid attorney. Mean while back at the ranch, Greg was being open, honest and keeping it real. Have to admire Greg's honesty. He makes us all question our effort to make sure we get the best out of ourselves. Interesting debate, but I'm with Greg on this one.
@ready4itall89
@ready4itall89 4 года назад
He’s so disrespectful it’s unreal. Whenever Greg is speaking Mike looks so bored then basically repeats what Greg says but in fancier words. Mike’s a tool
@g_raff_har8518
@g_raff_har8518 4 года назад
Yeah, I get that Greg is self centered sometimes, but Mike didn't respect him at all. Mike Kind of reminded me of how I used to look as a teenager when my dad would talk to me. Greg was even complimenting Mike
@christophersmith8480
@christophersmith8480 4 года назад
So in other words you base your conclusions based off on personality (who you like better) instead of the actual substance of each persons arguments. Nice
@g_raff_har8518
@g_raff_har8518 4 года назад
@@christophersmith8480 I get that both had good information, for sure. Even Greg said on his IG, if you want to learn some stuff, watch it. Mike just seemed not open minded about anything
@mkl1464
@mkl1464 4 года назад
Greg was spouting bs. All he has on him was anecdotal evidence, which is train harder and the 10% rule. That's about it. Of course Greg has to be open, he know nothing. He couldn't challenge Mike's philosophies although this is a debate.
@heruvey87
@heruvey87 4 года назад
If you have watched Gregs videos you know what "Train Harder" means , "Harder than last time", hes basically telling you to progressive overload.
@GamerGarm
@GamerGarm 3 года назад
Then, he should say progressive overload, instead. You are like a beaten wife, "when he hits me he is actually saying he loves me!"
@Iron_Thunderstorm
@Iron_Thunderstorm 3 года назад
@@GamerGarm He specifies that he’s referring to progressively overloading quite often.
@Han-nk3io
@Han-nk3io 3 года назад
@@Iron_Thunderstorm so what new did Greg bring on training
@Iron_Thunderstorm
@Iron_Thunderstorm 3 года назад
@@Han-nk3io I’m not sure what your question means. It sounds like you’re asking what new concept he came up with. In my opinion, great teachers aren’t inventing ideas, rather, they’re conveying well known truths in an easy to digest manner
@Han-nk3io
@Han-nk3io 3 года назад
@@Iron_Thunderstorm Then let me tell you simply told people to train harder than last time isnt a good way to teach people either.
@TheRealGuywithoutaMustache
@TheRealGuywithoutaMustache 4 года назад
Welcome to death battle!!! Greg Doucette: 1. Is a doctor 2. Has chest striations 3. Has hair Mike Israetel: 1. Maybe a doctor 2. I can’t see the striations because he has a t-shirt on 3. Has no hair Who wins? You decide
@rajivkishore
@rajivkishore 4 года назад
🤣🤣🤣👍
@alejndraalmirowitsch4897
@alejndraalmirowitsch4897 4 года назад
both are awesome. tbh Greg is the best youtuber ive founded this year EDIT : maybe Mike not as awesome anymore after watching this
@KyleHutBB
@KyleHutBB 4 года назад
We need an old school epic rap battle of history between Mike and Greg
@nicks4066
@nicks4066 4 года назад
He’s also a marine biologist according to his video on Stephanie buttermore
@Notinserviceij
@Notinserviceij 4 года назад
@@alejndraalmirowitsch4897 it's a joke man
@carljenkins7354
@carljenkins7354 4 года назад
Had to take an extended pause at the 1 hour mark. Dr. Mike's attitude just grinds me. He's clearly smart, and has done and read a ton of research, but this forum was full of passive aggressive energy from Dr. Mike from the start. Granted, Coach Greg looks like a smart kid who knows the subject but hasn't studied the details, names, and dates before a history final exam, and wasn't prepared for a scientific debate, but that's not what we expect from him anyway. His coaching is more colloquial, more touch and feel, more interpretation and adjustment, intuitive training so to speak, rather than strictly and inflexibly data driven. If Coach Greg is the enthusiastic but scattered student, Dr. Mike is definitely the prof. But man, Dr. Mike might be someone I would listen to for the science of hypertrophy, but I wouldn't want him to coach me. Here's the thing though, I would bet that if you analyzed the implementation of Coach Greg's routine for a client that it would fall within the bounds supported by Dr. Mike's science. Edit: The closing remarks? Dr. Mike let his dik show. Not cool.
@SaurianSoul
@SaurianSoul 4 года назад
I had to scroll to see if anybody would edit after hearing the closing remarks. Mike could be right about everything but who wants to listen to such a pretentious prick? I'd take Greg's yelling over that pompous pedantic tone any day and based off his subscriber growth its clear that many agree.
@joypass17
@joypass17 4 года назад
1:06:20 If you google 'what is obese body fat percentage' Greg is right.
@bob-uj4vn
@bob-uj4vn 4 года назад
mike is probably mixing with morbid obese
@alexanabolic5099
@alexanabolic5099 4 года назад
@@bob-uj4vn and maybe he is mixing many other things...
@rishabhbhandari5211
@rishabhbhandari5211 7 месяцев назад
It's not by body fat percentage it's by BMI.
@barcalona55
@barcalona55 2 года назад
Just because someone is passive aggressive doesn’t negate what they say. Mike destroyed Greg
@asketillus8679
@asketillus8679 Год назад
All Mike really did was ask questions Greg couldn’t answer well. People like Greg a lot and can’t stand to see someone slightly less prominent in this industry to be correct in a debate with him.
@JohnSmith-yx8kf
@JohnSmith-yx8kf Год назад
@@asketillus8679 Greg is a youtuber, Mike is a professor. I don't mind Greg, his content is fun, but i kinda think he underestimated the sort of level that Mike is on when it comes to this stuff. Mike also said he acted like a dick on purpose because he thought Greg was disrespectful about him in some previous videos, so that's probably why he came across as the 'bad guy'.
@asketillus8679
@asketillus8679 Год назад
@@JohnSmith-yx8kf exactly. Greg played the nice guy because he knows that he’s not much compared to Mike when it comes to this stuff. Then people felt bad for him because Mike made him look stupid just by asking questions
@HkFinn83
@HkFinn83 Год назад
@@JohnSmith-yx8kfMike should understand that while he’s a ‘Professor’, he’s still only a sport science professor. With hypertrophy training analysis is paralysis, especially for novices. He’s taking very simple concepts and making them seem complex. That’s the opposite of what a good teacher is. Not that he doesn’t have some good information to share. But he thinks he has the keys to a kingdom that really doesn’t exist.
@WizzdummHeadley
@WizzdummHeadley 10 месяцев назад
OH PLEASE!!! 😁😁😁😁😆😆😆😆🤣🤣🤣🤣
@j2tus2000
@j2tus2000 4 года назад
To be honest I've watched both of these guys a lot. I'm 50 this year and I've got the best results I've had in a long time watching Greg. He's helped me a lot and helped me get my mind right as I was under working thinking I was training hard and wow was I wrong. Thanks @gregdoucette
@txwe1011
@txwe1011 4 года назад
I'm 33 and agree. Getting more results having watch Greg call me a pussy lol
@jordypeters1156
@jordypeters1156 4 года назад
@@txwe1011 Im 16 and agree as well. Becoming less of a moron watching greg lmao
@rickymurray
@rickymurray 4 года назад
I'm 35 and was getting lazy and inconsistent in the gym over a year or so, then I found Greg and my body transformation is drastic, I can't thank him enough. This Mike seems like a douch
@fsormanib1
@fsormanib1 4 года назад
I'm 40 and I've been training natural for continued 15 years, thought will never improve anymore and now I have better shape thanks to Greg, his style worked, haha, also what he says makes common sense so I did some adjustments that worked for me. Mike is good but sometimes I sleep watching him.... 99% of the people that watch this videos we have a life, we work, etc so we need good advice and also more: "Get your fat ass to the gym and train hard, you are training like a pussy ! " ;-)
@Fuckingboredrn
@Fuckingboredrn 2 года назад
Greg's advice is simple and actionable and effective for most people. Mike's advice is more complex takes some time to understand but is absolutely more comprehensive and leads to more optimal training, it just takes a higher upfront cost because you need to understand more dynamics opposed to Greg's go harder than last time. Which works until it doesn't and unfortunately that doesn't comes relatively quickly and then your left without much conceptual understanding of where to go what to do and what dials to pull.
@bojanrajacic5045
@bojanrajacic5045 4 года назад
Greg has charisma level 100, Mike seems a bit douchy here
@Dexatron
@Dexatron 4 года назад
Thank you! I feel the same way. Honestly feels like typical case of knowledge vs experience. Greg is a lot more successful in the experience department than Mike. I also found it quite hysterical when Mike tried to interject about his nutrition knowledge when Greg clearly knows much more about how to maintain a quality lean muscle building diet. IDC what your "literature" says. I care about what actually worked for someone because there are just WAY too many variables when it comes to hypertrophy/training/and coaching. Experience>Literature ALWAYS in this sport.
@sidharthkm5030
@sidharthkm5030 4 года назад
Yeah, it seemed like he was trying hard to disprove Coach Greg's cases
@flabio7074
@flabio7074 4 года назад
I had to turn the video off. I just couldn’t take Mike. I honestly like Mike’s other content but he was unwatchable in this video.
@josephwilkinson1610
@josephwilkinson1610 4 года назад
Agreed, seems a prick....
@MrCrossfireno1
@MrCrossfireno1 4 года назад
Easy for Doucette to act like the nice guy. He talks shit and can’t back it up here. All the soft arses that are crying about how mean Mike is should remind themselves that half of Doucette’s channel is just him calling people out.
@philclarke3660
@philclarke3660 4 года назад
Dr. Mike's my main lifting mentor, but he didn't really come across well in this. I think most of this was a moot point, because of the bias and uncertainty of what "the average viewer" really is. I agreed more with Greg in this because I don't share Mike's optimistic view of the average lifter/youtube audience IQ, or the average lifter worldwide. He usually talks about what's optimal, but sometimes people prefer simpler advice, even if it isn't as accurate or "optimal".
@akay5036
@akay5036 4 года назад
Mike is jealous and felt humiliated. He really shows his true character in this debate
@johnfurr5698
@johnfurr5698 4 года назад
@@akay5036 I don't think Mike really showed his true character in this video. There are hundreds of videos with him online. I do however, think he showed his true disdain for Greg. Ands because of that Greg came out looking better in this one debate. You have to know the history of both men to see that. And to Greg's point. Different people resonate with different people. I like Mike's approach in general more the Greg. Today However I learned from Greg.
@akay5036
@akay5036 4 года назад
@@johnfurr5698 Greg's results are evident and also that of his clients. Mike just overcomplicates shit and ends up performing poorly whether it be his conditioning in bodybuilding or strength in powerlifting. Greg's approach just works better.
@johnfurr5698
@johnfurr5698 4 года назад
​@@akay5036 Mike's is pretty damn jacked bro and he has plenty of clients that have benefited. Personally, I don't get how people see what Mike say's as complicated. There are really only two concepts. 1) Start a training cycle at your MEV and move towards you MRV towards the end of the cycle. 2) Use hard sets to gauge volume and not mathematical volume. That's pretty trivial. You still train hard...and that should be a given for any system. I mean we are lifting weights. It's SUPPOSED to be hard. I don't need someone yelling that I'm a pussy. I need someone to give me better advice on periodization. My biggest issue as a novice was that I almost alway's went to failure. I was vastly over training myself after a month in the gym. Maybe that isn't normal in commercial gyms, but in my power rack in my garage I go balls out. Mike helped me to understand fatigue management. I still train balls out on my sets. But I wave the number of hard sets now. I was stalled for so long because i was alway's so damned fatigued. Now I'm making steady progress again... To be blunt I thing Greg may have the better advice for novices, but I think Mike's advice is vastly superior for people in the intermediate and advanced phases of training.
@akay5036
@akay5036 4 года назад
@@johnfurr5698 I agree but most people aren't like us. 9 out of 10 people I've met in a commercial gym don't train hard.
@itisimpossibleto
@itisimpossibleto 4 года назад
Hey, the sound volume of Greg was a bit low just to let you know
@ellyvatedaf
@ellyvatedaf 4 года назад
Mike looks so fed up of Greg the whole time
@felixrossignol3127
@felixrossignol3127 4 года назад
He probably has a busy schedule
@facundozapata7364
@facundozapata7364 4 года назад
Greg seems extremely arrogant from what I've seen of his channel
@heassik3088
@heassik3088 4 года назад
@@facundozapata7364 is part of what he does, he's basically like a character, and he yells because it is part of his channel
@anxietydisorders5917
@anxietydisorders5917 4 года назад
ZEROOO
@mkl1464
@mkl1464 4 года назад
Because he gets tired from listening to so much bull. It's not even a debate. All of Greg's points were not valid at all, they were just anecdotal evidence. Mike had absolutely nothing to take away from Greg and was just thinking of counterpoints.
@gailinax
@gailinax 4 года назад
Mike doesn’t even let Greg finish answering a question before he asks another. Very distasteful.
@edisonvogue7353
@edisonvogue7353 4 года назад
That what weak souls do. Haha
@HardHardMaster
@HardHardMaster 2 месяца назад
Because Greg had been a total A hole leading up to this.
@donovan4222
@donovan4222 2 месяца назад
And Mike is still right while Greg isn’t
@flexforall2
@flexforall2 4 года назад
I’m about 30 minutes in and I just wanted to say, Thanks @omar you did a really great job moderating and setting up this discussion! I’m really enjoying it 💪🏼💪🏼
@Tragedy59
@Tragedy59 4 года назад
Welcome back to fitness bro! Hope you plan on uploading a bit more consistently!
@OmarIsuf
@OmarIsuf 4 года назад
Thanks Matt, I appreciate the kind words man, hope things are good!
@joshkingfitness1604
@joshkingfitness1604 4 года назад
Good to see the OG on the tube 👌🏻
@gregs570
@gregs570 4 года назад
Matt Ogus aNd 25 people agree with you. Butt kisser
@Ddmd1789
@Ddmd1789 4 года назад
Damn. Didnt expect to see the goat here
@ab-mb8nq
@ab-mb8nq 4 года назад
I clicked on this video with the presumption that Mike would be his usual calm, intelligent self while Greg yells and interrupts him. Surprisingly enough, Greg turned out to be calmer than usual compared to his usual video. Mike turned into a completely different individual, and reminded me of that intelligent guy in school that nobody likes.
@llamaczech
@llamaczech 3 года назад
The "Coach Greg" character in 99% of his videos is leaning into what gets him RU-vid traffic. Like, the information is the same, but he plays up the screeching like Gilbert Gottfried and calling people idiots and morons to caricature levels.
@MrCmon113
@MrCmon113 3 года назад
Mike usually doesn't have to nail a pudding to a wall.
@IamWoodstaman
@IamWoodstaman 2 года назад
I have watched 50 minutes of this interview and I cannot understand where you got that perception of Mike. Do you understand how a discussion works?
@marzwolfe4037
@marzwolfe4037 2 года назад
@@IamWoodstaman I’ve seen sooo many comments saying Mike is disrespectful here and I just finished the video & agree with you, I’m still not seeing anything wrong with Mike’s disposition. People don’t seem to like that he sticks to evidence based claims and calls Greg out on his inconsistencies (i.e. when Greg says “I’m not telling people to go completely to failure when I say to train harder! I’ve never said that!” and Mike says “you literally scream it to your audience in your videos…”)
@uhsemehicieronlas3
@uhsemehicieronlas3 4 года назад
Mike was attacking Greg all the time, what was the point? this was not a real discussion on training
@themalakabrothers864
@themalakabrothers864 4 года назад
uhsemehicieronlas3 because Mike is right and Greg is cocky
@tanishqsharma8765
@tanishqsharma8765 4 года назад
@@themalakabrothers864 u realize it's the other way around aye... Greg was way more calm the whole time
@eatingwithsylvia9339
@eatingwithsylvia9339 4 года назад
THIS IS THE FIRST TIME GREG WAS NOT YELLING HE WAS CALM!
@ntwalipat2
@ntwalipat2 4 года назад
I think Omar & Mike got together to setup this talk to attempt to teach coach Greg a lesson, or try to expose him for some reason!😂
@carlm.m.5470
@carlm.m.5470 4 года назад
​@@ntwalipat2 There was definitely free passage to get off topic and make personal attacks on the bald idiot's part. I thought there were supposed to be points made that intensity is the poor route, when it comes to building muscle.
@kingmoovin406
@kingmoovin406 4 года назад
Mike stop attacking my doctor...he’s kept us all healthy for free
@ntwalipat2
@ntwalipat2 4 года назад
Dayum! Mike's insecurities got exposed!
@griselda3736
@griselda3736 Месяц назад
​@@ntwalipat2 did we watch the same video? 🤣
@alexhutton155
@alexhutton155 Месяц назад
@@griselda3736yup, the one where mike looks all pouty and red faced like he wants to cry?
@griselda3736
@griselda3736 Месяц назад
@alexhutton155 it's comedy, he's doing it on purpose. I was dying the whole video 🤣😭
@thstghtlik8575
@thstghtlik8575 4 года назад
Love how greg who is an accomplished powerlifter and bodybuilder with over 20+ years of experience isnt afraid to ask for advice. And then there's people on youtube who think they know it all.
@alimehrozi2828
@alimehrozi2828 4 года назад
Yep, you could tell Mike was arrogant Greg is more accomplished AND more humble
@JeffO-
@JeffO- 4 года назад
@@alimehrozi2828 Greg wasn't 'humble' until he had to actually face someone instead of making response videos on his own and criticize based on a lot of false assumptions.
@tobybanks5142
@tobybanks5142 4 года назад
inhim7777777 yeah I think when faced with someone who could back up all of their arguments and knew how to debate well he didn’t really have a choice, in prior videos Greg made it seem like his word was the golden truth
@SoullessPolack
@SoullessPolack 4 года назад
I think one thing that's often misunderstood is how some intelligent individuals who are involved in research view themselves. When you're involved in research, you question everything. Your data and evidence are keys to proving your hypothesis. In conversation and debates, they're often found questioning others, frequently. It can be often enough where it seems they don't believe anything anyone says. But it's more to do with how they're wired; you can't just make a claim without backing it up. Why is your claim true? How is the claim supported? Scientists are always asking questions.
@mrchariybrown
@mrchariybrown 4 года назад
@@alimehrozi2828 Greg was only humble after actually having to debate with Mike. Did you see Greg's two previous videos where he insults Mike? You got a bit of Greg on your lips there.
@dermotshaw6775
@dermotshaw6775 Год назад
Ye dude I'm a begginer and I researched hard before even looking at a gym. I'm a bang average dude and I listen to Dr Mike and understand everything he says and it's very entertaining also
@soonahero
@soonahero Год назад
How’s it going now
@dermotshaw6775
@dermotshaw6775 Год назад
@@soonahero going good so far, I'm getting great gains every week. My body looks bigger and I feel way more confident
@mulacula9540
@mulacula9540 4 года назад
Got more respect for Doucette after seeing he genuinely listen and want to learn from Mike.
@felldin
@felldin 4 года назад
Of course he listened, he came sixth place and what's a bronze medal next time. 😉
@RATM1971
@RATM1971 4 года назад
@@felldin To go with his world records and other bodybuilding wins.
@felldin
@felldin 4 года назад
@@RATM1971 he is an accomplished man for sure.
@dubseatv
@dubseatv 4 года назад
Niclas F P more accomplished than this toe he is talking to lmao.
@nolanmendoza3643
@nolanmendoza3643 4 года назад
The master loses master status when he’s no longer a student.
@bulldogvillan
@bulldogvillan 4 года назад
I've never heard of this Greg guy, but I get what he says about beginners not knowing what failure really is, and giving them a simple framework to figure that out. I think Mike was right about everything he said, but he kind of came off a little bit like Lyle in this debate (being a prick).
@mkl1464
@mkl1464 4 года назад
Mike is just allergic to closed minded people and ignorance
@miska9655
@miska9655 4 года назад
Mike sayed gregs obesity bf is wrong even thought Greg was right
@katielopez4104
@katielopez4104 4 года назад
Perfectly said!
@alexanabolic5099
@alexanabolic5099 4 года назад
@@miska9655 And in that sense, he could be wrong about many other things as well. But he is probably right about many things.
@alexanabolic5099
@alexanabolic5099 4 года назад
I suggest you look at Greg channel. You will find a lot of common sense and much more information.
@tareknebri1995
@tareknebri1995 4 года назад
"Avengers infinity wars is the biggest crossover in history" Greg Doucette: hold my french toast
@liamcarter7205
@liamcarter7205 4 года назад
Greg’s humbleness is admirable and shows a different strength that Mike doesn’t have.
@analogcrunch4716
@analogcrunch4716 4 года назад
Gregs an arrogant ass hat
@williamdavis1844
@williamdavis1844 4 года назад
That's why I trust him as a source for information more than Mike. Greg went in to this even asking good faith questions for his own knowledge. He shows respect for Mike's knowledge here. He has a positive attitude and Mike just doesn't. I want my source to participate in conversations this way.
@Ragniirox
@Ragniirox 4 года назад
Mike comes from an academic background and understands how academic debates should work. Greg is treating it like a conversation when he is supposed to be arguing in favor of his position. It may seem rude but showing weakness or conceding on certain points loses points with the audience when you are trying to convince them of your position.
@thomasjones9559
@thomasjones9559 4 года назад
Humble? The dude brags about his world record and and says he's right 99% of the time and calls people morons and talks about his degree and hisnfrench toast and how many shows he competed in every single video. Were you being sarcastic? I think they both have pretty nice sized egos
@liamcarter7205
@liamcarter7205 4 года назад
@@thomasjones9559 Humbleness in this video. Being confident is ok.
@alexanabolic5099
@alexanabolic5099 4 года назад
It is funny to see that AthleenX almsot said the same thing as Greg, but nobody is challenging him, Jeff Cavaliere said that volume is killing your gain! He made a video about that. The premise is simple. Most people that trains look like they do not train, because they don't train hard enough. Stane also did a similar video some years ago: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-OTquzDmeAbc.html
@rajanyc1342
@rajanyc1342 4 года назад
Most of these guys are jealous of how fast Gregs Channel is growing
@Darth_Jester
@Darth_Jester 4 года назад
The best part is the everything Greg said in this video, Jeff Cavaliere just made a video yesterday stating almost the exact same things. This mike guy is just looking to argue and not find common ground to talk like intelligent humans would.
@alexanabolic5099
@alexanabolic5099 4 года назад
@@Darth_Jester |Yes, I listened to it a couple of hours ago. I was thinking to tell people here, but I said to myself, they do not want to listen and argue forever, so screw them. But yeah, I agree with you. Jeff and Greg have a lot in common.
@Darth_Jester
@Darth_Jester 4 года назад
Alex Anabolic the difference is that Greg is more brash and loud, but having met Jeff, I know that he has the same ideals as Greg. Jeff just doesn’t yell on RU-vid, but he still cusses and uses vague words to say folks are training like pussies. 😂😂
@Pedro_Le_Chef
@Pedro_Le_Chef 3 года назад
Except Jeff Cavalier is a fraud and preaches dangerous lifting technique. The fact that he agrees with Greg makes Greg's arguement seem worse
@jpch8814
@jpch8814 4 года назад
Greg is correct from a macro scale, me as a noob find Greg to be way more easy to understand and helpful, while is Mike is more scientifically correct and overall can't be applicable to everyone, and no the people that watch Greg are not advanced and we don't train that hard, I personally realized that I train like a pussy thanks to Greg Doucette.
@defeqel6537
@defeqel6537 4 года назад
Yeah, I'm a beginner too. The 10% rule, training to technical failure, and perhaps most of all the longer breaks between sets have really helped me after I felt like my progress slowed. I also don't have the time, or inclination, to go to the gym every day, or stay there for 20+ sets per muscle group. edit: that said, I do think Greg could improve his wording in his RU-vid videos; e.g. be clear that harder doesn't mean increased weights (necessarily) or absolute failure
@neznam1337
@neznam1337 4 года назад
@@defeqel6537 you dont need to go to the gym every day, nor do you need to do 20 sets per muscle group. You need to find out how your body responds to what dose of volume. I never go above 15 sets per bigger muscle groups per week, and never above 12 for smaller ones. Starting the mesocycle at 8 sets for bigger muscle groups (2 training sessions x 4 sets) and 6 for smaller ones (2 sessions x 3 sets). And im an intermediate lifter, been lifting for 6+yrs. I just wanted to say it because mike doesnt advocated every day training and 20 sets per muscle group. MRV is very individual
@CDarb1881
@CDarb1881 2 года назад
Correct, his advice and channel are for beginners.
@homelander5232
@homelander5232 4 года назад
Mike really doesn't like greg's guts and it's kinda noticeable.
@Notinserviceij
@Notinserviceij 4 года назад
so?? And you care about this because? Idk about the rest of you but I'm here for the information not the fantasy of some internet drama. You can "hate" people and still be able to have reasonable discussion with them. Why is it anyones business whether Mike hates Gregs guts or not? It shouldn't even come to mind In my opinion
@mkl1464
@mkl1464 4 года назад
Greg is arrogant. He mentioned in his video "i am smart and i am always right". Of course Mike wants to take him down. He also said something along the lines of "He has a PhD i have a masters. But we dont know what kind of student he was. He might have been an A student or a C student." Never have i seen someone so self-centered and full of himself.
@Notinserviceij
@Notinserviceij 4 года назад
@@mkl1464 you sir are the morons he is talking about. That's humour....It's part of his channels brand...you don't have to like it but that's what it is. Learn to read between the lines a bit here. I know you are probably used to having hand fed information given to you but gee If anything Mike looks like the arrogant one in this case, and i follow both of these guys for information and still will foloow both these guys It's not like Mike doesn't have PHD written all over his profile, so calm down about the credential dropping You're an idiot, in my opinion of course
@marscrasher
@marscrasher 4 года назад
m kl its a joke. same as with eddie hall but greg does it funnier
@Jmack7861
@Jmack7861 4 года назад
m kl Greg is just kinda like that, also had nothing but compliments other than those things that you quoted
@breadkrumbs
@breadkrumbs 3 года назад
This ‘debate’ conclusion is basically: they agree, but Mike doesn’t like Greg
@KurokamiNajimi
@KurokamiNajimi 3 года назад
No? Greg thinks RPE is only good for beginners (a position he has recently doubled down on in his last response vid to Jeff) and Mike thinks RPE is good for beginners and advanced. Greg has a big ego and training to failure or beyond failure is his most defining training advice. Of course he’s not gonna admit he’s wrong, he even lies about what ppl say in response videos to trick his audience. He once said he and Mike agrees that training to failure creates the most growth when what Mike actually said was that within a very short time frame it will but over the long term no due to fatigue. He shuts down any research based on a premise he has no evidence for and contradicts the experience of people like Omar, Jeff Nippard, and Vegan Gains. RPE or RIR isn’t rocket science. It’s literally just the advice given to total noobs except on steroids. Do people tell new lifters that they’ll make more gains by going all out and burning themselves out or do they tell them to take it easy? It’s the same philosophy. Another example of Greg lying and having too big of an ego to admit he’s wrong are the comments he leaves on Vegan Gain’s videos, one of which is literally something like “nobody cares” without attempting to debunk any of his points. Nor has he made anymore response vids to Gains because he knows if he draws more attention to Gains some ppl will be smart enough to view the points made unbiasly. In his only response to Gains about the health of plant based vs omnivore he takes a quote out of context and points to 1 study within an entire meta analysis to say that he’s right lmao there’s not even anything for Greg to be embarrassed about health wise, he has admitted many times that it’s not his speciality. Idk if he really thinks omnivore is as healthy as plant based or if he just purposely lies since telling people otherwise theoretically hurts his business. Or if he’s just like the average person and loves animal products so much that he doesn’t want to accept the truth despite having no evidence and never sticking to a quality whole foods plant based diet in his life. Anyone who does for 30 days and switches back is gonna be able to tell you it’s superior, that’s the irony we don’t even need studies we can experience it first hand. Especially if you go for months and switch back
@TheMoo1231
@TheMoo1231 3 года назад
@@KurokamiNajimi agree with most of what you said about Greg, but vegan gains is also a complete moron and there is no convincing evidence that a vegan diet is any healthier than diets with low amounts of animal products , as long as you have a lot of fruit, vegetables, nuts, etc
@AngryOscillator
@AngryOscillator 3 года назад
@@KurokamiNajimi 🤣 Vegan Gains 🤣 your opinion is worthless
@KurokamiNajimi
@KurokamiNajimi 3 года назад
@@TheMoo1231 Not sure why I never saw this comment. Depends on what you mean by low amount of animal products. If you’re arguing that eating chicken breast is equal to eating beans for example hell no but if you’re talking about eating stuff like that every once in a while it depends. I don’t really care about health studies because I’ve come to realize it’s all reliant on meta analysis rather than strict control groups. I just go by what I experience. From what I’ve come across there’s rarely anyone who ever tries following a well planned whole foods plant based diet and if they do they’re never the one who’s trying to argue omnivore is equal or superior. It seems more like everyone who is successful with it agrees that they feel shitter once their body adapts to it and they deviate too far from it. Not even just animal products but processed junk foods as well. I remember Joey Carbstrong (vegan) having a debate with another vegan about if promoting mock meats is good for the movement since they’re unhealthy. Part of his reason was that eating them gives him stomach aches. Joey was saying of course it does you’ve been primarily eating whole foods for almost 10 years. So back to if a low amount of animal products in your diet would have no backlash I’m gonna have to say no. If we know a food is inherently toxic you could reasonably assume a decrease in long term health would result from consuming it even just once a week. The extent at which you’d need strict data for but even if it’s just say going from a 1% chance to a 2% that’s technically doubling the chance
@KurokamiNajimi
@KurokamiNajimi 3 года назад
@@AngryOscillator Lol that’s not an argument. You can’t see it at the moment since VG privated all his videos due to recent channel strikes that probably are a result of the John Meadows backlash but since me making that comment he has stayed consistent with his training and was adding 5 pounds to bench a week for a few months. He reached 315 for 3 with 3 reps in the tank a couple months ago and said he planned on doing a 405 max by the end of the year. Might not get to see that on YT if he can’t get these strikes resolved. My opinion on how RPE/RIR is right or not right has changed slightly depending on the context but I still think Greg is wrong overall. My opinion is just that it’s good if your volume to intensity balance matches your experience level. I agree more with Alpha Destiny’s line of thought about max strength=max size so someone who has been lifting for 5 years and still only does high volume work imo should indeed be going to failure often to make better gains but they’d make better gains if they did a good balance of volume and intensity preferably with the conjugate approach. Alpha Destiny is the only guy we can reasonably assume is natural who has reached a 405 pause bench at 185 pounds in a bit under 10 years. He plans on doing 440 within the next 4.5 years
@MrVincentTremblay
@MrVincentTremblay 4 года назад
"Do you think the people in GoodLife are representative of RU-vid audience?" Da fuq?? Yes, of course, what do you mean?! Like 99.9% of everyone doesn't train hard enough. I think Mike is insulted because Greg is giving good advice and it's easy for most people to follow.
@rajanyc1342
@rajanyc1342 4 года назад
Exactly
@samlowry9521
@samlowry9521 4 года назад
I dont get this train harder thing. Most bros max out everyday at the gym. Not a good idea obviously but I dont understand how they would benefit from ''train harder''
@Fir3fly798
@Fir3fly798 4 года назад
Fernando Reyes you keep spamming this comment and the answer is simple: “maxing out” every day is not indicative of training hard. Working up to a near max to absolute 1RM and do a single set and maybe a handful of other sets does not provide a lot of training stimulus, especially in the context of hypertrophy being the primary goal.
@fraternovaeres
@fraternovaeres 4 года назад
"This guy doesn't know anything about building muscle!" -academic debating an IFBB pro. I love Mike, but he came across extremely ivory tower here. Bad faith conversation. I cringed seeing Greg offer olive branch after olive branch only for Mike to reject it and strawman Greg as hard as possible over and over. It got to the point of being silly, like Mike getting pissy and asking, "why can't you do 20 sets to failure?" Mike constantly talks about the dangers of accumulated fatigue and the adverse effect of training to failure repeatedly, but when Greg takes that same view, Mike sneers at him like he's talking witchcraft. Bad showing from Mike, which surprises me since he's usually a good interviewee in settings like this.
@mattc4266
@mattc4266 4 года назад
Bryan M yea for real it’s only a two year fucking difference and mike acts like he’s leagues smarter just because he had the resources to conduct more studies but Greg’s probably stronger than him (especially at his prime ) and they both have or do abuse gear so that’s irrelevant (if you think mike natural youre crazy )
@elliottatwell1155
@elliottatwell1155 4 года назад
Yes, an academic debating an IFBB pro; it's like a dentist debating a patient with perfect teeth, or a cardiologist debating a runner with perfect heart health. IFBB pro's have coaches for a reason; because they don't know as much about the subject as experts in the field. This is why argument from authority is a logical fallacy.
@fraternovaeres
@fraternovaeres 4 года назад
@@elliottatwell1155 "Greg has no insight to offer because he lacks Mike's academic credentials." Bro you're literally arguing from authority. And Greg is a coach too. Miss me with that dumb shit.
@elliottatwell1155
@elliottatwell1155 4 года назад
@@fraternovaeres Never remotely suggested that on any level, a layman with no field relevant degree can have incredible insight (see Lyle McDonald) so complete strawman; Mike never said that Greg doesn't know anything about building muscle because he isn't as educated, Greg has a master's in kinesiology albeit an ancient one; Mike said what he said because Greg made claims that either didn't pass scientific muster or ran contrary to actual empirical research. That being said, Mike was definitely out of character on this one; you usually have to really piss him off in order for him to be this snarky and dismissive, but Greg initiated things with previous comments towards both him and Jeff Nippard.
@mattc4266
@mattc4266 4 года назад
Elliott Atwell well said me atwell I loved when you roasted v shred
@ColtFPS
@ColtFPS 4 года назад
I like Mike a lot and RP in general but man his attitude even at the start was a bit off putting. Greg did a good job dealing with his passive aggressive attitude during this hour and a half. I expected better of Mike even though he adamantly disagrees with Greg.
@johnfurr5698
@johnfurr5698 4 года назад
Normally Greg is all wound up and screaming and Mike is super calm. Today Greg was more calm and humble sounding...first time I really enjoyed hearing Greg honestly. But Mike was clearly sort of stand offish a bit which is not his normal. I guess everyone has an off day. lol I still prefer Mike's format overall. Today however I did enjoy listening to Greg.
@painy6588
@painy6588 4 года назад
@@johnfurr5698 I would agree but also mention that its probably tough to remain perfectly humble when the other guy is talking so much nonsense. And it might be easier to stay humble when you realize that you are completely contradicting yourself...
@Jacob_S13
@Jacob_S13 4 года назад
@@painy6588 No? I awear to God Greg is right about morons... Man, Just to start, look at their accomplishments - Mike is nowhere near Greg, whether its bodybuilding or powerlifting. Second, Greg doesnt need to be a douche, he tries to explain things as simple as possible to reach a wider audience
@upload9595
@upload9595 4 года назад
@@Jacob_S13 I agree with you. Mike just loves to sound smart to people. Greg is actually the smarter man, he can take someting complicated and convert it down to something that anyone can understand. Mike doesnt have what it takes to be a teacher.. he just repeats the stuff he learned in the same complicated way that he learned it. And on top of that he is so convinced that he cant posibly be in the wrong, that he fails to see the points Greg is making. Took him ages to understand how the 10% rule works. And I think he still doesnt get that Greg is not telling everyone to train to failure but to train HARDER. (HARDER=\=FAILURE). Greg won the debate, Mike just doesnt see it and he never will...
@painy6588
@painy6588 4 года назад
@@Jacob_S13 I guess he is right about morons.
@CallingAllCam
@CallingAllCam 4 года назад
This interview gave me a whole new level of respect for Greg.
@donmac5124
@donmac5124 4 года назад
I was told to watch this to see the "dark side of Greg" sort of speak. I think i have more respect now than ever. I dont know why this video was used as a reference to prove their point about Greg.
@hyperbolicgains1238
@hyperbolicgains1238 4 года назад
He handled being pressed by mike well
@Circlemaker24
@Circlemaker24 4 года назад
What I like about Greg is he can keep up with the hyper technical views of high level exercise scientists, and distill it into advise for beginner/intermediate lifters. Maybe I’d do things slightly differently if I had three PhD’s watching me everyday and I was an Olympic athlete. But basically it comes down to “always use good form”, “train harder than last time”, and “eat low calorie dense foods”. Now I can go to the gym and eat with confidence without needing to study this stuff 24/7 and constantly question whether I’m doing things exactly right. Greg makes training and eating doable and highly effective without having to be an expert analyst. Experts can argue for years about details, but if you want to get fit to 95% of your capacity, Greg delivers.
@sodarulz
@sodarulz 4 года назад
Same I was told that this would change my opinion on Greg, but I respected him more after watching. I like that he could agree with Mike's points, but I hated that Mike didn't want to give Greg any props and kept shitting on him
@jamnana2235
@jamnana2235 4 года назад
@@sodarulz Mike is an extremely well-credentialed and respected sports and nutrition scientist. This collab from Greg's perspective was a chance to gain some of that clout from Mike(which Greg deserves btw). Understandable that he was being so polite and respectful whereas Mike has nothing to prove so which clearly shows.
@MrKimijo
@MrKimijo 4 года назад
Jesus Christ Mike was cocky and condescending, like him a lot but this was just kinda annoying to watch tbh
@mortenlarsen7220
@mortenlarsen7220 4 года назад
Yea have to agree i have watced him for a very long time i am not a fan of the rather high volume he talks about but aside from that he have really good info I have taken hes info and changed alittle so i could apply to higher intensity sets (bigger loads), but yea i heard from others mike was being kinda a dick about it so i decided to watch for myself. Yes mike have a PHD and knows alot, and greg have a master and knows alot, the difference lies in their communication. Greg talks to the average person to what they can understand, and mike well he talks to people with higher levels of knowledge there is a reason why he only got 47k subs on hes channel. Cause there is not alot of people that are super smart or super into training like that, and thats a difference between the two. Greg says train harder and and if you loose 10% of your strenght then its time to move on to the next movement or go home depending on how far you are in your training, where as mike since he follows the research he will say between 3-12 sets per muscle group per session is the best, but that is a really big jump. Hell when i have coached people and told them somehwere between 10-20 sets per muscle group per week have shown to be optimal, they kinda just look at me confused and then have to explain further cause the average person do not understand it in that way. And sorry for shit tons of text.
@mortenlarsen7220
@mortenlarsen7220 4 года назад
@@RedMenace394 What video was that?, cause i did not really follow it and then i heard about a debate between the two. However greg still communicate to the average person, and mike communicate to the more well educated people. The kind that takes training and nutrition more seriously, and mike leans towards more that crowd. And like i said above ive followed mike for years and followed hes advice with some changes so it was better fitted towards heavy training.
@atanasb7090
@atanasb7090 4 года назад
I am a college student and judging by what I see at my school, and at my home town gym, I would say that 80% of people are definitely not training hard enough. Most of them are have a hard time even getting to the gym. What Greg is saying will without a doubt help out the general population. Mike is right in the sense that the 80% that I am referring to might not be watching this types of videos and perhaps, Greg can reconsider the way he portrays his information after this conversation. Personally, I thought the loud yelling and comedy Greg puts in his videos was intended to targeting that 80% that don’t train hard enough. Regardless, it felt like Mike was just trying to take Greg down instead of trying to help him out. At the end of the video Mike could have said, “Greg before you tell everyone to work harder, say that you are referring to the general population”. However, he chose to attack him instead of helping.
@trevordollinger6569
@trevordollinger6569 4 года назад
Omar is lowest of keys exaggerating the intensity of college weight rooms. Yeah there are plenty of people trying to ego lift and getting no gains but i wouldnt call that intensity lol. And EVERY person on a machine or using dumbells was NOT pushing themself in that weight room, maybe they get a little red at the end of a set but thats about it lmfao.
@Tumorcoach
@Tumorcoach 2 года назад
Anecdote is the lowest form of knowledge
@jzen1455
@jzen1455 2 года назад
I find it's like 10% of people who train hard.
@dylprez
@dylprez 4 года назад
As Tom platz said “there are a lot of skinny scientists in the gym”
@neoflip4523
@neoflip4523 4 года назад
😄👍
@tristanfeinauer
@tristanfeinauer 4 года назад
Damn, never heard that one.Harsh and true.
@rudbin1403
@rudbin1403 4 года назад
alot of knuckle heads with supreme genetics out there, too
@nasmaxfit
@nasmaxfit 4 года назад
Are you even looking at Mike?
@KyleHutBB
@KyleHutBB 4 года назад
Jeremy Creason I mean I’m on Greg’s side personally but trying to say Mike doesn’t have an impressive amount of muscle on his frame is just silly.
@zack53chevy
@zack53chevy 4 года назад
Mike is way too cocky. Id rather listen to Greg any day
@tegenetics2992
@tegenetics2992 4 года назад
That’s why no one listens to mike he can barely get 2k views a videon
@nickrambo
@nickrambo 4 года назад
I'd just use O'Tren at 450mg per week
@emilianoandres5667
@emilianoandres5667 3 года назад
@Wendy Statebolikurac his channel's name is renaissance periodization
@rodrigodelgado4766
@rodrigodelgado4766 3 года назад
Lol what does him being cocky have to do with the quality of his information? Them Greg followers are really just plain stupid. Have fun getting injured and stalling
@williamlanger9229
@williamlanger9229 3 года назад
I like both, but this is literally the only instance I've seen of Mike being cocky and Greg is normally nowhere near as humble as he presents himself in this debate.
@jonaomuller8518
@jonaomuller8518 4 года назад
For me it looked like Mike was trying to "debunk" Greg, while Greg was trying to build up a conversation (most of the time, for both my assumptions)
@moosehussaini
@moosehussaini 4 года назад
i love how both greg and mike are saying a lot of the same things but mike just shakes his head at greg essentially disagreeing with himself
@MrJessej80
@MrJessej80 4 года назад
They aren’t saying the same things at all
@moosehussaini
@moosehussaini 4 года назад
Jesse lmao then you weren’t listening when Greg starts talking about what he says to his clients he says he tells them to back off ...and train smarter
@moosehussaini
@moosehussaini 4 года назад
@@HappyroosterYT if you watch gregs vids when speAking about clients ie brandon harding he says the same stuff so hes being consistent
@T0YCHEST
@T0YCHEST 4 года назад
Happyrooster no u dont get it his persona is basically a drill sergeant that treats his youtube viewer like beginners that dont know why they arent getting bigger and stronger, and uses the famous quote “train hard! How hard? Harder than last time.” But he talks about his customers he coaches way more differently, because at the end of the day not everyone can have him as a coach and he would never know how hard we train so when he gets questions like why am i not getting bigger or stronger than last time his shtick comes in that your training like a pussy. Tbh it resonated and i put 25lbs on all my compounds after binging him from my recommended, his whole thing is u have to push yourself with proper form hence the dont go over failure if form is off or you need a spotter. So instead of doing 3 sets of 10 reps 275 bench one day than than the next session you do 3 sets of 11 reps 275 bench to get stronger( higher volume), keep the 3x10 but for a 290(intensity) and if u can only do 2 sets of 10 and 1 set of 8 and u cant get those last 2 no need to push yourself until the next session until ur strength develops than keep adding more weights until u can master the sets and reps.
@johnny100h
@johnny100h 4 года назад
Mike Israetel's attitude made this that much less enjoyable to watch. All the dumb tones and smug ways, scoffing, creasing his eyebrows, breathing, EVERYTHING so disgusting.
@catzilla6279
@catzilla6279 4 года назад
He's trying so hard to sound smart. Just makes him sound like he doesn't know what he's talking about.
@misterkeebler
@misterkeebler 4 года назад
@gb_2000 Ya, but Greg never said to "go all out" either. In fact, he constantly makes fun of how it seems like everyone on youtube and IG fitness plays in these extremes. Saying people need to "train harder" isn't the same thing as going all out. Greg's whole point is that people often underestimate what they can actually do and they undertrain "like pussies." The word choice is just his sense of humor but i'm pretty sure any gym rat could look around their gym and agree with him. Even the studies Jeff Nippard talked about recently agreed with this. tl;dr Greg and Mike aren't even really saying anything different once you peel back the scientific terminology. "RP Periodization" and "train harder today than yesterday" are in alignment.
@momsaid
@momsaid 4 года назад
gb_2000 they are defining going all out differently tho
@Agnes135
@Agnes135 4 года назад
@@catzilla6279 He is smart, one of the smartest guys in the fitness realm. He knows exactly what he's talking about
@catzilla6279
@catzilla6279 4 года назад
@@Agnes135 Then why is he trying to make something so simple sound complicated... that's not how smart people explain things.
@sirwalksoftly
@sirwalksoftly 3 года назад
I like how Greg offers straight forward advice, just do as many reps until you cannot. That does work. However, Mike has broken it down to a science to really consider avoiding burnout while still progressing.. which is huge! I think it's a great (and probably better) method for longevity and efficiency.
@MrCmon113
@MrCmon113 3 года назад
It's not very hard to pay attention to the feeling in your muscles.
@Uwhwvwgwh
@Uwhwvwgwh 11 месяцев назад
​@@MrCmon113no it's we are not talking about you but people how are just mad they probably will work to hared without plan in mind
@jamessalt6217
@jamessalt6217 4 года назад
You don't win a debate just by talking down to your opponent
@johnwig285
@johnwig285 4 года назад
Its pretty funny how ppl are easily misled by herd mentality blindly jumping on the bandwagon hating on Mike accusing him of having superiority complex just because he has a PhD. The underlying reason why he was so passive aggressive was that Greg had made videos abt Jeff Nippard and thinks he works out like a pussy. Mike sees Jeff as a friend hence he was defensive and aggresive, he sees it as a platform to prove Greg wrong instead of a having debate. While it was unprofessional of Mike to bring in emotions into what was supposed to be a scientific professional debate, you all dont get to scrutinise his credibility over an attitude for defending his friend. Maybe if yall check out Mikes videos, you will finf quality as well just like Greg. Both are great youtubers, instead of further adding fuel to the fire, we should be bringing them togethwr settle the beef and have quality debates
@jamessalt6217
@jamessalt6217 4 года назад
@@johnwig285 your mum gay
@Sharion5498
@Sharion5498 4 года назад
@@johnwig285 Yeah he said Jeff Nippard works out like a pussy. Boo hoo, he also told his viewers to follow him and learn from him. He encouraged viewers to get knowledge even from people he PARTIALLY disagrees with so that we can draw our own conclusions. Stop focusing on words so much and start reading the intentions.
@JoeyCentral
@JoeyCentral 4 года назад
Sharion Jeff is. Pussy though. I’m pretty sure I could kick his ass in a fight.
@matthewruiz8366
@matthewruiz8366 4 года назад
@@johnwig285 that doesnt excuse anything lol
@darklight79797
@darklight79797 4 года назад
Pretty disappointing to see Mike being so condescending and aggressive. And props to Greg for being a gentleman and holding his own.
@elady604
@elady604 4 года назад
I can vouche for Gregg. Most of the viewers watch him for entertainment and an opinion from someone with a lifetime of experience.
@thechinchillachannel8457
@thechinchillachannel8457 Год назад
I started watching RP intermittently a couple of years ago. At first, I found the info unnecessarily over-complicated and confusing. But, I gave it some time and watched more videos. Everything started making sense when I watched/studied the various lecture series on "strength training" and "hypertrophy training". It took many hours of my time and, although I would never call myself an expert, it was an eye-opening experience that was well worth the time. As an aside, I sort of understand Greg's point about "training harder than last time". But, it's a little disturbing to hear that he takes a rather different approach when hired as a coach. There are people who will simply follow the "train harder than last time" slogan, misunderstand or misapply the concept, and potentially get hurt. In contrast, RP presents the same concepts in person as he does on social media. One last note - Mike's closing remarks must have cut deep.
@LoopZoopler
@LoopZoopler Год назад
100 agree
@greglovelace246
@greglovelace246 Год назад
You'll only get hurt 90+% due to exorcise selection. Hardly anyone talks about exorcise selection and what's biomechanically appropriate for the muscle. All of what these 2 talk about is due to exorcise selection. I've tried the more efficient isolated movements and you can do more volume, you have more load and there are different variables. Even periodazation can be useless, if and only if you train this way. The study of different exorcises is what we need more study on because it will change things and exorcise selection is the foundation of the routine but yet hardly anyone sees it that way. Once you get into compound exorcises, especially with heavy intensity and volume then it's not the same for other more efficient lifts for one given muscle. We MUST look at exorcise selection.
@greglovelace246
@greglovelace246 Год назад
On that note, if you try the brig 20, this can be a great start for more efficient less fatigued workouts. Still optimal, if not more so to pack on muscle. Especially if your advance and very strong; your erector spinae will give out on technique before your quads or hip flexers ever will, we must see this and have more efficient ways of muscle work even during studies, they should associate with only one muscle and I mean complete isolation with full ROM and good technique. That's how studies should go, everything should be looked at in a individual muscle frame and then do studies on compound lifts or movements.
@pedroguimaraes6094
@pedroguimaraes6094 4 года назад
Greg is Warren Buffet: wise, down to earth, have been showing great results with consistency through decadades, has a simple yet accurately way of seeing and speaking things and is humble. Mike is an PHD in finance with a lot of knowledge and technical language, but not the same results, makes simple things complex and is arrogant. Who would you hire for maneging your money? Who would you trust?
@vikdaddy
@vikdaddy 2 месяца назад
this comment only looks stupider over the years
@brotherben4357
@brotherben4357 2 месяца назад
What tf did I just read?
@TheNiceGuy224
@TheNiceGuy224 2 месяца назад
God I had a finance teacher who sucked Warren Buffet off all the time, he’s not special he got lucky and money snowballs. If you start with more you’ll end with a whole lot more. Warren Buffet killed local businesses
@nickcustodi592
@nickcustodi592 4 года назад
How tf has NO ONE made mention of how well Omar moderated this???
@johnfurr5698
@johnfurr5698 4 года назад
Yeah solid point. Omar did a great job and is still by far my favorite youtube channel. It was also the first fitness channel I subscribed too.
@johnj9267
@johnj9267 4 года назад
@nick...just waiting for you :) He did do a great job!
@theR0ck3tsumm3r
@theR0ck3tsumm3r 4 года назад
John Furr same here! I’ve been subscribed to this channel since at least 2013... could’ve been 2012, but either way he’s always kept the core of this channel the same & consistent
@sheend
@sheend 4 года назад
He didnt.
@mattc4266
@mattc4266 4 года назад
Jeff nippard was asked to monitor it but he didn’t like Greg so didn’t and I don’t think he be as good as Omar with it
@sumdudenorris106
@sumdudenorris106 4 года назад
How does Greg keep the same facial expression for the whole 90 minutes? Are these hismythical doctor/lawyer powers?
@kanekiken2376
@kanekiken2376 4 года назад
Its his natty powers
@sidmenon8470
@sidmenon8470 4 года назад
It's all French toast and popcorn power
@Ophois47
@Ophois47 2 года назад
Greg was very helpful as a beginner and I find Mike to be more helpful now that I am no longer a beginner. Don't really like either personality here.
@WizzdummHeadley
@WizzdummHeadley 4 месяца назад
So they've both helped you but you don't like either of them???!!! WTF!!!???
@qmqz_
@qmqz_ 2 месяца назад
@@WizzdummHeadley you can like the knowledge, and not the person sharing it
@CMEConquerVids
@CMEConquerVids 4 года назад
Honestly this came off as nothing more than a (failed) attempt to protect the egos of established fitness youtubers lol. Mike had zero intention of actually discussing the subject, and approached the debate with arrogance and entitlement. Zero enlightenment occurred other than realizing Mike (and maybe you as well, Omar) feel threatened by Greg's success on RU-vid in a relatively short time period. You don't own the "good advice club" on RU-vid lmao get over yourself(s). Greg's info is great and clearly his delivery resonates with many people. I was so stoked when I saw this debate was happening but ended up being super disappointed. I actually felt offended watching it.. Like you're using your fans in some weird youtube fitness political game or something. Didn't feel like you or Mike actually wanted your fans to gain anything useful.
@kyesantos7174
@kyesantos7174 4 года назад
CMEConquerVids couldn’t agree more
@rajanyc1342
@rajanyc1342 4 года назад
Thank you 👏👏🙌🙌💯💯
@benjamin07420
@benjamin07420 4 года назад
Truth
@iron_unicorn
@iron_unicorn 4 года назад
And Mike was super boring. This was so hard to watch.
@iron_unicorn
@iron_unicorn 4 года назад
Christopher Huber I "do science" (although not of the exercise variety) and still don't really understand what I'm supposed to be doing! So I just go to the gym and train harder than last time 😂
@shannonmorgan4190
@shannonmorgan4190 4 года назад
I also don’t think Mike wants to even try to accept anything Greg says. It’s completely personal. Greg advocates high reps with controlled motion to failure, which is WAY different than loading on 95% of your 1RM on bench and try to bounce 5 reps off of your chest to failure.
@jdada7067
@jdada7067 4 года назад
Lawhd Keif true. Most people are too stupid to even comprehend Greg’s point.
@JeffO-
@JeffO- 4 года назад
Why can't one do five good controlled reps? It an be a great rep range for some people. It doesn't have to be 12-15 reps to be in control.
@shannonmorgan4190
@shannonmorgan4190 4 года назад
inhim7777777 it can be! But I was just stating what he advocates and what he is trying to prevent against.
@JeffO-
@JeffO- 4 года назад
@@shannonmorgan4190 Yeah. I think that's a false dichotomy of his. Also, so much research has now shown, as Mike says, that anywhere between 5-30 reps is going to be fine for hypertrophy (maybe not fatigue).
@shannonmorgan4190
@shannonmorgan4190 4 года назад
inhim7777777 Good point. “Higher reps” to failure (15ish) is much less taxing in my experience than 5 reps to failure which can be fatiguing and dangerous.
@Firmly_grasp_it
@Firmly_grasp_it 4 года назад
How am I suppose to sleep when you drop an hour and 20+ minute video?!
@Stridonjerome
@Stridonjerome 4 года назад
Simpel watch tomorrow
@gustavpropovski9932
@gustavpropovski9932 3 года назад
I love how Greg’s just smiling like a happy 6y old kid.
@gustavpropovski9932
@gustavpropovski9932 3 года назад
@User 2389 thats why he has more money than you
@restrada1231
@restrada1231 3 года назад
@User 2389 they’ll never get it. Lol
@user-jw6yh4ev4n
@user-jw6yh4ev4n 3 года назад
@@gustavpropovski9932 Plenty of low IQs are rich dude
@gustavpropovski9932
@gustavpropovski9932 3 года назад
@@user-jw6yh4ev4n but not you.
@user-jw6yh4ev4n
@user-jw6yh4ev4n 3 года назад
@@gustavpropovski9932 Wow ur so smart
@shannonmorgan4190
@shannonmorgan4190 4 года назад
I had no knowledge of the NSCA 10% protocol until this video, but after research it turns out that it is in fact legit. Greg’s obesity statements are technically correct as well. I watched the entire video again after Omar responded to my comment and I feel like mike was even more of a jerk the second go around; especially now that I know mike was dismissing Greg about things that are actually legitimate, all because mike doesn’t like him and thinks so highly of his own opinions. Maybe if mike trained harder he wouldn’t have such a poor physique given the amount of gear he takes. Mike cries genetics about everything.
@joypass17
@joypass17 4 года назад
Yes
@shannonmorgan4190
@shannonmorgan4190 4 года назад
catonic At the end of the day this is Mike (and others) feeling threatened and wanting to wash Greg from the fitness industry; that may sound ridiculous but I’ll explain why. Natural lifters flock to RU-vid to find the perfect RPE/intensity/volume/frequency that is suddenly gonna make their untapped gains explode and make them what they have always wanted to be. The truth is, consistent hard work is the only answer. Mike knows that, but his over complication makes naturals feel like they have found some sort of secret recipe to gains since super smart doctor guy is prescribing complicated programming. Greg saying to just keep training harder than last time is scary and demotivating for people, but it’s the truth and it hurts business for people like Mike who sell snake oil.
@RATM1971
@RATM1971 4 года назад
@catonic How can you be more prepared when someone just says everything, ie the 10% rule, definition of obesity, etc is wrong? It's like saying the sky is blue and someone saying, "no, the sky isn't blue" as they laugh in a smug and arrogant manner. At some point you just have to say F it and the let the little crybaby have their way because nothing you can say is right even if it 100% agrees with them.
@harvshaw9118
@harvshaw9118 4 года назад
great comment, bang on
@sidharthkm5030
@sidharthkm5030 4 года назад
Let's be real, Mike probably had an inferiority complex because they both competed in the same fields and Mike did not accomplish his goals while Coach Greg set a world record and got in the top 10 in the recent bodybuilding competition which would help his coaching career. I realized as I kept typing that it was making Mike seem more and more petty.....I don't know if it's true, it's just an assumption. It might be true, we don't know
@Curtisnoctys
@Curtisnoctys 4 года назад
Holy shit Mike is the most passive-agressive person I've ever seen, sounds and looks like a cold-hearted hitman, he kept indirectly firing shots at Greg, you could feel the tension in the air
@akay5036
@akay5036 4 года назад
He's the angry nerd that got picked on at school.
@zackname1612
@zackname1612 4 года назад
You could tell he just didnt like him and had no interest in potentially learning anything from him, he just wanted to make Greg sound like an idiot/POS. Mike: *describes Greg's audience as idiots going crazy and killing themselves at the gym for no reason* Greg: "50% of my audience are morons" Mike: "Wow, I cant believe you think so lowly of your audience do they realize you do that?" like what????
@margitarajovic7981
@margitarajovic7981 4 года назад
Zack Name so when Greg calls me a moron, he really means it? :(
@zackname1612
@zackname1612 4 года назад
@@margitarajovic7981 idk man
@fraternovaeres
@fraternovaeres 4 года назад
Mike: "Why do you give that advice?" Greg: "It helped me build a pro physique and has helped my clients build pro physiques." Mike: "Okay yeah but which labcoat gave you permission?"
@mtdeloach
@mtdeloach 4 года назад
Dr. Mike wouldn’t even agree that all lifters aren’t monoliths. Just wants to try to show you how superior he is and insult Greg at the same time.
@quantum_nebula_92
@quantum_nebula_92 2 месяца назад
RU-vid suddenly recommending this to me, given the recent conflict between these two guys 😂
@austinbouchard6523
@austinbouchard6523 4 года назад
Greg: *preaches moderation Mike: “So you’re an extremist?”
@philliprodriguez9757
@philliprodriguez9757 4 года назад
Omar could have IN FACT done a better job mediating this “conversation” (let’s be real this was a debate) with the way he was talking to Greg and I’m a little disappointed in him for that. It doesn’t take a PhD to know how to act kind to one another and Greg was just being honest. Super biased “conversation” so props to Greg for even agreeing to be apart of this “conversation” and being humble thought the duration of Mike’s rampage.
@ag2407
@ag2407 4 года назад
Phillip Rodriguez you shouldn’t be surprised, mike and omar are bro’s
@JustinBobby-di9zt
@JustinBobby-di9zt 4 года назад
Mike is an over educated idiot who overcomplicates everything
@700317
@700317 4 года назад
I follow all three guys but Mike acted like a butthurt nerd scientist trying to make Greg look bad....maybe Mike is on tren.
@StrengthFoundation
@StrengthFoundation 4 года назад
LMAO
@brandontemple5641
@brandontemple5641 4 года назад
😂😂
@MrEmilbergvall
@MrEmilbergvall 4 года назад
He is at least on The juice
@asakuragaming3679
@asakuragaming3679 4 года назад
Lmao
@augustinvaclavik6282
@augustinvaclavik6282 4 года назад
XDDDDD TRU LOL
@stevezes
@stevezes 2 года назад
I don't know what people are talking about. Mike's arguments made way more sense.
@taggerung_
@taggerung_ 2 года назад
Greg is more popular. There's also a lot of idolization that goes on in his community. He's viewed as the down-to-earth guy that isn't worried about the details. This is fine for most things, but in a debate about what works *best*, you can't ignore what the research says, which is what Mike is trying to present. I'm just disappointed with the way Mike acted at points in this debate.
@ohwell808
@ohwell808 Год назад
Mike is 1000000% correct
@karsten9387
@karsten9387 6 месяцев назад
Except for that he was strawmaning Greg's arguments quite often throughout this discussion. One example was when he(mike) says that people shouldn't go to failure and get rounded backs on the deadlift (Asserting that it's what Greg is spewing to his audience)Greg never said to absolute failure, he said to go to technical failure (that was established within the first few minutes of the discussion). This in its entirety, came down to tone policing Greg Doucette, because they were mostly in an agreement anyways, but they didn't like the way that he expressed his opinions/beliefs. I've never seen Mike this unprofessional and bad faith before.
@shah144
@shah144 3 месяца назад
@@karsten9387he doesn’t like greg
@Isaiaswolf66
@Isaiaswolf66 2 месяца назад
Wow
@tylergregory9533
@tylergregory9533 4 года назад
Greg - “I never called her a pig I called her a whale” 😂☠️
@insaiyantraining6035
@insaiyantraining6035 4 года назад
Wuuut lmaoooo when was this ?
@tylergregory9533
@tylergregory9533 4 года назад
Insaiyan Training when he was talking about Jeff lolol
@insaiyantraining6035
@insaiyantraining6035 4 года назад
@@tylergregory9533 broo could you maybe put a time stamp haha I'm at the 50 min mark
@DevilsRejection
@DevilsRejection 4 года назад
To be fair, he's quoting her; she called herself a whale.
@ulfhednar2205
@ulfhednar2205 4 года назад
He also said "the elephant in the room" 😂❤️
@camdenbelliveau8352
@camdenbelliveau8352 4 года назад
I'm kind of frustrated by the way that Mike approached this debate. I'll preface this by saying that I'm a fan of Greg, and that I'm not as familiar with Mike, but I've seen basically all of what he stated in this video before. I understand he definitely disagrees with some of what Greg preaches, and probably took offense to some of what Greg said in regards to Jeff and Stephanie, but it felt like he set out to try and 'win' an argument and make Greg look dumb, rather than attempting to reach common ground. Greg, on the other hand, seemed a lot more willing to acknowledge that he might be wrong and adjust his opinions accordingly. It seemed like Mike was unwilling to acknowledge the nuances of Greg's point about training harder; Greg can deliver that message pretty abbrasively but he obviously has a point. I think I'm mostly frustrated because it seems like they probably agree a lot on how to train, but that never really got explored fully because Mike didn't seem to want to reach a consensus.
@MaxDennehyDietitian
@MaxDennehyDietitian 4 года назад
Camden Belliveau 👌👌
@georgeadams.1
@georgeadams.1 4 года назад
Well said, i feel like this sums up a lot of people's perspective with this video
@bramvanderwaal5632
@bramvanderwaal5632 4 года назад
Camden Belliveau very true statement, its kind of childish of mike.
@reftu1489
@reftu1489 4 года назад
I don't know. It's like him saying "training to failure is not bad, but then again I might be wrong".
@akay5036
@akay5036 4 года назад
Mike is just the angry nerd that is jealous of a Greg's results and is mad Greg humiliated him publicly for over complicating something Greg is clearly better at.
@SimonLudman
@SimonLudman 4 года назад
1:03:10 the point when Greg goes all out and he became the real Greg! Love it! :D BTW check out my podcast with Mike Israetel about train to failure, and we discussed a lot of Greg's training methodology.
@frankay29
@frankay29 4 года назад
I like Mike and his opinion on training, but I lost a lot of respect for him based on how he spoke to Greg
@Mistysfedora
@Mistysfedora 4 года назад
Same. I like mikes perspectives but his attitude is less than desirable
@conrifor
@conrifor 4 года назад
Crazy, I just found Greg through recommendations and now he's on Omar's channel
@chickenspheres7582
@chickenspheres7582 4 года назад
This video was unfair for mike he had to debate a doctor, bodybuilder, powerlifter, coach, natty! He had ZEEEEERO chance
@MaxDennehyDietitian
@MaxDennehyDietitian 4 года назад
Chicken Spheres 😂😂
@Ashpkfmdmdmdmd
@Ashpkfmdmdmdmd 4 года назад
ZEEEROOO ZEEEROOO
@nicksarjveladze441
@nicksarjveladze441 4 года назад
apparently Mike is also all above mentioned including jew jetsu pro grapler
@ulfhednar2205
@ulfhednar2205 4 года назад
Zeeto
@riseandshout00
@riseandshout00 4 года назад
Greg isn't a doctor
@reoki5451
@reoki5451 4 года назад
Mike, well done for being able to speak so much and not say anything of value to anyone. Greg, please never stop yelling
@michaelfranco6896
@michaelfranco6896 4 года назад
Let's not act like Mike doesn't hate Greg 😂
@exqmple
@exqmple 4 года назад
Michael Franco He is a butthurt that’s why
@merlynhall2498
@merlynhall2498 4 года назад
If they were in the same room, Mike would literally attacked Greg.
@dylprez
@dylprez 4 года назад
Celo calm down bro lol
@BENCHIPED
@BENCHIPED 4 года назад
Mike would have total distain towards the detectives questioning him after he killed Greg. Mikes the type of guy who would feel he would have to represent himself in the murder case against him for killing Greg.
@adamyounes777
@adamyounes777 4 года назад
Celo your a moron
@SnaKeEXx
@SnaKeEXx 4 года назад
The problem with MIke's approach is that the average person completely overestimate theis RPEs and end up doing less effort than they could. There're studies on this, people were told to stop 3 reps short of failure, and when told to go to failure they discovered they could do like, 8 more reps. Greg's approach is way better in terms of you actually knowing how hard you can go, and always have productive workouts. Edit: Greg pointed this out at the end, Mike rapidly directed the conversation to Jeff Nippard again.
@SaurianSoul
@SaurianSoul 4 года назад
They do briefly mention that studies showed advanced trainees were accurate in their estimation of RPE's, but thats where we fall into Mike overestimating and Greg underestimating the experience of the audience. Mike has a lot of faith that all the people watching can accurately measure their effort in the gym, which if that was true we'd all be seeing a lot more jacked dudes in our gyms.
@Sol-01
@Sol-01 Год назад
Link the study through? Was it a meta-analysis?
@MultiStar84
@MultiStar84 4 года назад
I’m just here with my 100 calorie popcorn
@code5829
@code5829 3 года назад
AMEN AND AWOMEN
@statisticallysupportedanal1896
@statisticallysupportedanal1896 3 года назад
@@code5829 ACIRCLEEES
@sergiozdrums
@sergiozdrums 4 года назад
Omar was an awesome moderator on this one! doing a great job trying to cut off the tension
@Ouragland
@Ouragland Год назад
No it was the juiciest part
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