Greg Doucette vs Mike Israetel: Volume, Intensity & Training To Failure 

Greg didn’t have his hearing antenna in so I’m double impressed he wasn’t constantly yelling “WHAT!?”. More of these please Mr Isuf. Thank you.

Thanks for this Omar, didn't think it would happen with Greg saying no to Mike, loved the video and a bit surprised by the comments. 🤔

What was the true purpose for inviting Greg?

Alexandre Medawar Mike probably asked to have him on so he could try to embarrass him and Omar accepted because it’ll get lots of views. Just a guess though.

@@shannonmorgan4190 tbh this discussion came off as a stage for addressing accusations towards Jeff...friend-driven intervention. Although Dr. Mike owns authority regarding large aspects of this debate's subject matter, neither he or Omar investigated the successes Greg may or may not have with coaching. After years of this, im curious to see what he has accomplished in others across the board vs successes with his own genetic advantages, etc

metamacros lol

Lmfao!

He did call us morons, I'm satisfied.

The Doc vs The PhD, good one

I personally prefer 'moroon' makes me feel more sophisticated

@PoolDesTodes 133 no. it's about whether or not it's an amazing crossover

@PoolDesTodes 133 the underlying message to what he's saying is that it's a great crossover... how could it be just any one?

Michael Faraday Iron Man vs Thanos

@PoolDesTodes 133 that's not op's fault

@PoolDesTodes 133 Agreed. I'm getting sick of seeing this shitty comment on every collab/debate video

😂😂💯

HAVE A HARDER OPINION THAN LAST TIME!

Confirmed he never watched a video of greg's lol.

Yes, I need to be called a moron every now and again 😜

is he applying doc Greg should stop yelling at us???????

to be fair greg has been shit talking mike and his physique

Tim Atkins two sides to every story, they had conversations prior to this where Greg was short and rude sooo believe half of what you see and none of what you hear

Huh, that was interesting. As someone who likes Mike and watches/reads lots of his content, Mike is usually very good at being charitable and "arguing to convince". The talk started off very well and I was very positively surprised about the way Greg asked Mike for advice, but then for some reason Mike got very harsh when talking about Greg's 10% rule. Bit unfortunate, good on Greg for being chill all throughout.

s d Oof, really won me over to your line of thinking there lol. Friendly advice and idc if you take it or leave it. When debating or arguing, never use nouns to generalize someone, it completely discredits you. Must be a Greg fan lol.

@Rude One Yeah, but Greg's behavior comes across as harmless schtick, whereas that Mike guy really seems like a petulant douchebag.

Mikes facade burst and we got to see his true side, while Greg, well he has always been open about who and what he is; the Parrot from Aladin with a doctoral degree. Caleb Parham - only dumb people would take your word as fact when you have nothing to back it up with and there is a 1½hour long video going against your claim.

Gamebred Masvidal deadasss

@@rolandoledesma1885 Its pretty funny how ppl are easily misled by herd mentality blindly jumping on the bandwagon hating on Mike accusing him of having superiority complex just because he has a PhD. The underlying reason why he was so passive aggressive was that Greg had made videos abt Jeff Nippard and thinks he works out like a pussy. Mike sees Jeff as a friend hence he was defensive and aggresive, he sees it as a platform to prove Greg wrong instead of a having debate. While it was unprofessional of Mike to bring in emotions into what was supposed to be a scientific professional debate, you all dont get to scrutinise his credibility over an attitude for defending his friend. Maybe if yall check out Mikes videos, you will finf quality as well just like Greg. Both are great youtubers, instead of further adding fuel to the fire, we should be bringing them togethwr settle the beef and have quality debates

hope you KO usman

Gamebred Masvidal Greg is fukin harmless man. It’s all bantz. He sells proper sound and even when disagreeing with the likes of Israetel in his own video he is proper respectful of his expertise.

Gamebred Masvidal exactly..

And that’s exactly what he said when explaining why he says the things he does regarding this subject

@Eugene Stoner yeah I'm one of those people but I still don't leave nothing on the table at the gym. You don't have to be on gear or be a spoiled rich boy to train to failure all the time !

I'd make the argument that finding ideal training for beginners is a waste of time as they'll make progress from almost anything. Time and consistency will take any beginner to intermediate and THEN you can worry about the best way to train

I try to train hard, but I suck at estimating how hard i'm going. The methods of the science-based community had me second guessing everythings , but Greg's approach actually helped me to concentrate more on the work rather than the theory and my workouts got harder and better.

But don't you think that Beginners should always start training under the supervision of an experienced personal trainer, in order to learn how to apply what Dr.Mike is talking about accurately and with perfect technique , instead of wasting years training like shit in the gym (like i did ) and ending up with injuries /muscle imbalances/suboptimal results ...

Its a crime to introduce nuance and depth into the conversation.

Rhys Wilkins complex ideas are illegal

@@mojorhythm disagree

@@MrTas44 It's not even complex and Greg agreed with it. Indeed Greg gave in every single time. He's just of the opinion that his idiot fans deserve misinformation.

@@MrCmon113 I went from Mike to Greg because Mike had me complicating something that is actually quite fkin simple; until you reach the elite level. Mike's method will help you gain the exponentially difficult last 10% of stimulus/growth/ect but for most people what Mike talks about isn't relevant. There is no show to prep for, no contest, no rush. If I'm getting 90% from Greg and its easy and simple then thats fine with me, trying to get 100% from Mike fkd with my head and led to making all kinds of stupid mistakes. I'd go even simpler and say 'Volume is the amount of work you do' - for most people, most of the time, that is enough. Followed Mike for a year or two (was actually on the RP vids when this originally happened) and gained a load of knowledge but little muscle. Follow Greg for 6 months and I've never seen growth like this. Once it stops/slows I'll go back to Mike, assuming I care enough about it, to eek out those last percentiles of growth. Mike is for sports hipsters who like to toss themselves off with studies and debate clubs while Greg is for people who like to worry less and just get after it in the gym. Also complex means 'consisting of many different and connected parts' - it WAS complex which is the reason why it took Mike like 6x longer to explain his complex definition than Greg did his simple definition. Complex doesn't have to be difficult.

77dris same man

So Greg's advice applies to general population folks while Mike's advice applies to people who actually train?

@truth seeker That's not training hard lol, just being stupid.

Mike is insanely out of touch.

My homies at my university gym grunts and yells while doing 15kg skullcrushers

Greg's results and his clients results speak for themselves.

You meant to say "for morons" (Greg's words - not mine).

Yup

Greg goes by what he feels and what he sees with his clients. Mike's training recommendations come from his experience with himself and his clients, and loads of research studies and literature reviews. And seriously, his stuff isn't that hard to understand, unless you're like: "Me lift weights, me strong"

@Christopher Huber No I want saying that at all, however, for this example I would say that I'm average. There would be a lot above my understanding level, and a lot below. But you are correct in one sense: Mike's training recommendations only apply to 1 in 10 people. The rest don't care about maximal hypertrophy, and they can just do whatever for 3 years and get sufficient gains to keep them happy. Mike isn't talking to those people.

Mike is very intelligent, but makes the mistake of thinking everyone (or most people) are as into the minutia of training and as intelligent as him. Which, to anyone that has met the average lifter or been to an average gym.........is not true.

@@monkeyxpwner, you havd one of the greatest comments I have ever read; that is exactly it!

So you fell for Greg's little trick of playing innocent after all the garbage he threw at Mike and his friends before.

@@HardHardMaster 4 years later ⚰️💀 😂😂😂

The question is if RU-vid channels are the most efficient way to learn about fitness. From the perspective of information value and learning faster, technical literature may be better. But RU-vid channels make more fun to learn from. Its maybe the best to combine both for learning.

The fundamentals of strength training are quite simple and have been beaten to death over and over. Greg's loud and comedic delivery allows him to stand out from the massive sea of content.

@@Paul-om1zs about 0% of the population has the training to consume technical literature.

@@soonahero rounded to a whole number that’s most likely true. Most folks read the introduction and conclusion to a study, and that’s it. Zero interest in methodology or constituents.

@@asketillus8679 it doesn’t matter that they read it verbatim. A kindergartner could do that. They just can’t process it

Lol same

Yikes

Exact same here 😂

We all know recovery doesn't mean shit, as long as you consumed at least 80g of protein during your anabolic window

Brain gainz tho bruh?

As (somewhat of) a beginner, I generally see younger people training quite hard (imo), but 40+ generally not that hard.

Defeqel i see kind of the opposite, at least in my gym in sweden. And when me and my wife train really hard, people stare their eyes out.

What do you expect from someone saying 5 set of squat is nothing and he could move the world with such small volume...

I think the problem here was mike wasn’t even trying to get anything that Greg was saying he was just trying to get him on mistakes and point them out

I dont get this train harder thing either. Most bros max out everyday at the gym. Not a good idea obviously but I dont understand how they would benefit from ''train harder''

Fernando Reyes most bro’s max out at their 1RM. But not at 10-15 reps ... because that is what really is intense...

@@samlowry9521 it's just progressive overload.. if you do 3 sets of 10 with the same weight your whole life youll stop adapting... Eventually you have to add weight, or more reps, etc to continue to grow.. Which would be harder than last time....

With crazy GH horns

So you're saying he's beautiful? Nice.

😂

That's absolutely true

Oh man my christhmas tree doesnt blink that much.

@@rc-1983 think it's due to some medical condition I forgot the details Been a while.

Lmaooo, these 2 have 2 completely different personalities! But I wonder whose personality is more likable...😅

Hahahahaha

He kept twisting his words, he didn't listen to what Greg said, tried to trip him up, and just shows he knows nothing about the power of Greg's message.

Please watch the video with less bias mike is very critical that's all if u can't take criticism dont debate

@@malikcallen4437 no

@@malikcallen4437 dude, Mike literally spent the video arguing against progressive overload because Greg uses the phrase "train harder than last time" to convey the exact same message. The whole time he kept childishly bringing it back to "oh well he's not training hard enough" or making it about training past failure harder and harder even after what was meant was conveyed and it was conceded by Greg that he could word his message better (even though its completely clear if you have more knowledge of what he says beyond skimming through a few videos because subscribers tell you this guy was talking shit)

@@llamaczech Mike's entire argument wasn't with the idea, it was with Greg's presentation of the idea.

I have never heard obesity or being overweight being defined by anything other than weight relative to height

@@baconfromhell666 weight realtive to height doesn't work. A guy 5"10 240 pounds is overweight in that term, but in reality he is 240 pounds at 10 percent bodyfat, so he is fucking jacked and lean and not obese

@@doulie7687 Yeah, I totally agree that it's in no way a good measurement of health and I've never claimed it to be, but it's a measurement to show if you're overweight or obese. Maybe I'm alone here, but I never thought that overweight=unhealthy. But when we're talking about being a good measurement of health, then neither is bodyfat, because it's so incredibly hard to calculate correctly. So that shouldn't be used either, because someone that may be 20% bf may "feel" that they're only 13% or the method they used to measure is far off.

baconfromhell666 BMI is merely a screening tool for obesity.

@@kylen6430 Also it doesn't count for muscle mass, just weight in general.

xkidmidnightx non negotiable

Fatha needs 100k to debate.

Fake Merc Blaha vs AlphaDestiny

Beta Destiny

@@vardaspavarde8480 outlift him ;)

He’s not simple. He just doesn’t overcomplicate

Yeah, because most People aren't interested.

Mike ate this man lol

Most people i see. Young guys at gym try way too hard so idk man

@@Fuckingboredrn mike is a roided asshole, that speaks in complexities that the majority of people dont even understand

Won* Idiot.

Happened to me.... I just trained harder and harder..... Then injuries started..... I didnt know what happened...... I felt tired and tired every week.... Then with this RIR method I finally started making gains....

​@@robdiaz6827Take more rest and less low rep stuff.

I’ve been really good at stopping before injuring myself but I still trained at 0/1 RIR for too long and put myself in a really deep fatigue hole 🥲

train harder doesn t necesarily mean heavier. you clearly did not watch greg s videos

@@tudoralexandru8740 I mean both. Heavier, more reps and stretch. You can google Aizawa Hayato workout to see what it looks like “hard workout”

Yeah..you are right

@fire trails if you're that sore. Don't train that hard. Going back to working out means you can afford to start slow. Have patience

Thank you

@fire trails Thats absolutely fine id say, but you could do 3 sets, a bit farther away from failure, but still heavy, just until you get conditioned to that work and it starts to be easier to recover from (then you can really hammer the workouts home and close to failure with your better work capacity and recover a bit better, not to mention your form will be crisp from the lighter stuff)

Yeah

How many times? 50? That's easy

@@Stridonjerome With proper form, full range of motion in 1 set? 99% will fail for sure.

omar also luvs segue (seg way)

@@jakubb3368 don't talk for everyone

But we'd go to failure and would miss out on all the lower fatigue gainz

Luke Pedini he’s a super smart guy

agree, mike is a smart and educated guy, but he was an ass for no reason

As somebody who regularly follows Greg's videos and have the full context of the lead up to this conversation, I actually I don't think Mike had to try to hard to make him look like an idiot. Greg totally got his ass handed to him and it was done effortlessly. Great to see Greg being friendly and humble in this situation but he has little option to be humble when he was so outgunned. Pity he wasn't more humble in the first place. I prefer his videos when he is not ranting on like an angry dickhead.

@@KenE252525 Mike was being really cocky, mister know-it-all. Science here and science there... It all sounds nice in theory, but like Greg said: 99% of people are morons when it comes to lifting, because it's not something they studied for or deal with on a daily basis. They don't know what failure means, they don't know if they have 2, 3 or even 6 reps in the tank... Hell, I thought I was training close to failure (RPE 9 or whatever) and did 12 reps on my triceps extensions. After watching Greg's videos of him screaming TRAIN HARDER (with good form) I got 17 reps with the same weight and good form... That's 5 reps more ... That's RPE 6 or something... Yeah it burned, it wasn't comfortable, but since then I've been seeing consistent strength and hypertrophy gains.

Glenn same with me!! Ever since I’ve been following Greg’s advice on intensity I’ve been making gains. Even at my Job I’ve been getting positive comments from other employees

those nerds arent good sources of information

good point

Yup. He's one of those people who act like they’re that smart and you that stupid. So dumb no need to complicate it. Just keep it simple.

@@zack1_157 To be fair, you both sound a little bit simple, so I would imagine that you think most people are overcomplicating things.

@@Tannhauser62 no, Mike really is just over complicating things that aren't that complicated.

He loses hair by complicating stuffs

@@BerserkerX Mike just goes too deep into things bc he was trained to think that deep

yeah right bud mike knows wayyy more then greg, greg just literally said most of his viewers are stupid and he doesn't even know the people that watched his channel. like mikes saying if you don't know what your doing then don't give people advice

@@spankymcnugget3166 Greg says everybody is stupid, himself included. And Greg knows what he is talking about. Maybe look at his channel or look him up. He has a degree in kinesiology.

@@spankymcnugget3166 I didn't even know who Mike was before this video. He seems so egotistic and was trying to sound too smart which backfired and made him look like an idiot. He also said at the start he didnt have success in neither powerlifting nor bodybuilding, so maybe he should stay away from those topics and stick to martial arts if that is what he is into

@@jordypeters1156 nah I disagree my man go watch him and the mountaindogs interview on steriods great interview like greg said he was using a lot of juice in his prier days yeah he came across as a dick in this interview just because he doesn't like greg and the advice he gives. I mean greg just said here that he think most of his viewers are dumb idiots which doesn't say much for him

@@spankymcnugget3166 does that hurt your feelings?

He’s so disrespectful it’s unreal. Whenever Greg is speaking Mike looks so bored then basically repeats what Greg says but in fancier words. Mike’s a tool

Yeah, I get that Greg is self centered sometimes, but Mike didn't respect him at all. Mike Kind of reminded me of how I used to look as a teenager when my dad would talk to me. Greg was even complimenting Mike

So in other words you base your conclusions based off on personality (who you like better) instead of the actual substance of each persons arguments. Nice

@@christophersmith8480 I get that both had good information, for sure. Even Greg said on his IG, if you want to learn some stuff, watch it. Mike just seemed not open minded about anything

Greg was spouting bs. All he has on him was anecdotal evidence, which is train harder and the 10% rule. That's about it. Of course Greg has to be open, he know nothing. He couldn't challenge Mike's philosophies although this is a debate.

Then, he should say progressive overload, instead. You are like a beaten wife, "when he hits me he is actually saying he loves me!"

@@GamerGarm He specifies that he’s referring to progressively overloading quite often.

@@Iron_Thunderstorm so what new did Greg bring on training

@@Han-nk3io I’m not sure what your question means. It sounds like you’re asking what new concept he came up with. In my opinion, great teachers aren’t inventing ideas, rather, they’re conveying well known truths in an easy to digest manner

@@Iron_Thunderstorm Then let me tell you simply told people to train harder than last time isnt a good way to teach people either.

🤣🤣🤣👍

both are awesome. tbh Greg is the best youtuber ive founded this year EDIT : maybe Mike not as awesome anymore after watching this

We need an old school epic rap battle of history between Mike and Greg

He’s also a marine biologist according to his video on Stephanie buttermore

@@alejndraalmirowitsch4897 it's a joke man

I had to scroll to see if anybody would edit after hearing the closing remarks. Mike could be right about everything but who wants to listen to such a pretentious prick? I'd take Greg's yelling over that pompous pedantic tone any day and based off his subscriber growth its clear that many agree.

mike is probably mixing with morbid obese

@@bob-uj4vn and maybe he is mixing many other things...

It's not by body fat percentage it's by BMI.

All Mike really did was ask questions Greg couldn’t answer well. People like Greg a lot and can’t stand to see someone slightly less prominent in this industry to be correct in a debate with him.

@@asketillus8679 Greg is a youtuber, Mike is a professor. I don't mind Greg, his content is fun, but i kinda think he underestimated the sort of level that Mike is on when it comes to this stuff. Mike also said he acted like a dick on purpose because he thought Greg was disrespectful about him in some previous videos, so that's probably why he came across as the 'bad guy'.

@@JohnSmith-yx8kf exactly. Greg played the nice guy because he knows that he’s not much compared to Mike when it comes to this stuff. Then people felt bad for him because Mike made him look stupid just by asking questions

@@JohnSmith-yx8kfMike should understand that while he’s a ‘Professor’, he’s still only a sport science professor. With hypertrophy training analysis is paralysis, especially for novices. He’s taking very simple concepts and making them seem complex. That’s the opposite of what a good teacher is. Not that he doesn’t have some good information to share. But he thinks he has the keys to a kingdom that really doesn’t exist.

OH PLEASE!!! 😁😁😁😁😆😆😆😆🤣🤣🤣🤣

I'm 33 and agree. Getting more results having watch Greg call me a pussy lol

@@txwe1011 Im 16 and agree as well. Becoming less of a moron watching greg lmao

I'm 35 and was getting lazy and inconsistent in the gym over a year or so, then I found Greg and my body transformation is drastic, I can't thank him enough. This Mike seems like a douch

I'm 40 and I've been training natural for continued 15 years, thought will never improve anymore and now I have better shape thanks to Greg, his style worked, haha, also what he says makes common sense so I did some adjustments that worked for me. Mike is good but sometimes I sleep watching him.... 99% of the people that watch this videos we have a life, we work, etc so we need good advice and also more: "Get your fat ass to the gym and train hard, you are training like a pussy ! " ;-)

Greg's advice is simple and actionable and effective for most people. Mike's advice is more complex takes some time to understand but is absolutely more comprehensive and leads to more optimal training, it just takes a higher upfront cost because you need to understand more dynamics opposed to Greg's go harder than last time. Which works until it doesn't and unfortunately that doesn't comes relatively quickly and then your left without much conceptual understanding of where to go what to do and what dials to pull.

Thank you! I feel the same way. Honestly feels like typical case of knowledge vs experience. Greg is a lot more successful in the experience department than Mike. I also found it quite hysterical when Mike tried to interject about his nutrition knowledge when Greg clearly knows much more about how to maintain a quality lean muscle building diet. IDC what your "literature" says. I care about what actually worked for someone because there are just WAY too many variables when it comes to hypertrophy/training/and coaching. Experience>Literature ALWAYS in this sport.

Yeah, it seemed like he was trying hard to disprove Coach Greg's cases

I had to turn the video off. I just couldn’t take Mike. I honestly like Mike’s other content but he was unwatchable in this video.

Agreed, seems a prick....

Easy for Doucette to act like the nice guy. He talks shit and can’t back it up here. All the soft arses that are crying about how mean Mike is should remind themselves that half of Doucette’s channel is just him calling people out.

Mike is jealous and felt humiliated. He really shows his true character in this debate

@@akay5036 I don't think Mike really showed his true character in this video. There are hundreds of videos with him online. I do however, think he showed his true disdain for Greg. Ands because of that Greg came out looking better in this one debate. You have to know the history of both men to see that. And to Greg's point. Different people resonate with different people. I like Mike's approach in general more the Greg. Today However I learned from Greg.

@@johnfurr5698 Greg's results are evident and also that of his clients. Mike just overcomplicates shit and ends up performing poorly whether it be his conditioning in bodybuilding or strength in powerlifting. Greg's approach just works better.

​@@akay5036 Mike's is pretty damn jacked bro and he has plenty of clients that have benefited. Personally, I don't get how people see what Mike say's as complicated. There are really only two concepts. 1) Start a training cycle at your MEV and move towards you MRV towards the end of the cycle. 2) Use hard sets to gauge volume and not mathematical volume. That's pretty trivial. You still train hard...and that should be a given for any system. I mean we are lifting weights. It's SUPPOSED to be hard. I don't need someone yelling that I'm a pussy. I need someone to give me better advice on periodization. My biggest issue as a novice was that I almost alway's went to failure. I was vastly over training myself after a month in the gym. Maybe that isn't normal in commercial gyms, but in my power rack in my garage I go balls out. Mike helped me to understand fatigue management. I still train balls out on my sets. But I wave the number of hard sets now. I was stalled for so long because i was alway's so damned fatigued. Now I'm making steady progress again... To be blunt I thing Greg may have the better advice for novices, but I think Mike's advice is vastly superior for people in the intermediate and advanced phases of training.

@@johnfurr5698 I agree but most people aren't like us. 9 out of 10 people I've met in a commercial gym don't train hard.

He probably has a busy schedule

Greg seems extremely arrogant from what I've seen of his channel

@@facundozapata7364 is part of what he does, he's basically like a character, and he yells because it is part of his channel

ZEROOO

Because he gets tired from listening to so much bull. It's not even a debate. All of Greg's points were not valid at all, they were just anecdotal evidence. Mike had absolutely nothing to take away from Greg and was just thinking of counterpoints.

That what weak souls do. Haha

Because Greg had been a total A hole leading up to this.

And Mike is still right while Greg isn’t

Welcome back to fitness bro! Hope you plan on uploading a bit more consistently!

Thanks Matt, I appreciate the kind words man, hope things are good!

Good to see the OG on the tube 👌🏻

Matt Ogus aNd 25 people agree with you. Butt kisser

Damn. Didnt expect to see the goat here

The "Coach Greg" character in 99% of his videos is leaning into what gets him RU-vid traffic. Like, the information is the same, but he plays up the screeching like Gilbert Gottfried and calling people idiots and morons to caricature levels.

Mike usually doesn't have to nail a pudding to a wall.

I have watched 50 minutes of this interview and I cannot understand where you got that perception of Mike. Do you understand how a discussion works?

@@IamWoodstaman I’ve seen sooo many comments saying Mike is disrespectful here and I just finished the video & agree with you, I’m still not seeing anything wrong with Mike’s disposition. People don’t seem to like that he sticks to evidence based claims and calls Greg out on his inconsistencies (i.e. when Greg says “I’m not telling people to go completely to failure when I say to train harder! I’ve never said that!” and Mike says “you literally scream it to your audience in your videos…”)

uhsemehicieronlas3 because Mike is right and Greg is cocky

@@themalakabrothers864 u realize it's the other way around aye... Greg was way more calm the whole time

THIS IS THE FIRST TIME GREG WAS NOT YELLING HE WAS CALM!

I think Omar & Mike got together to setup this talk to attempt to teach coach Greg a lesson, or try to expose him for some reason!😂

​@@ntwalipat2 There was definitely free passage to get off topic and make personal attacks on the bald idiot's part. I thought there were supposed to be points made that intensity is the poor route, when it comes to building muscle.

Dayum! Mike's insecurities got exposed!

​@@ntwalipat2 did we watch the same video? 🤣

@@griselda3736yup, the one where mike looks all pouty and red faced like he wants to cry?

@alexhutton155 it's comedy, he's doing it on purpose. I was dying the whole video 🤣😭

Yep, you could tell Mike was arrogant Greg is more accomplished AND more humble

@@alimehrozi2828 Greg wasn't 'humble' until he had to actually face someone instead of making response videos on his own and criticize based on a lot of false assumptions.

inhim7777777 yeah I think when faced with someone who could back up all of their arguments and knew how to debate well he didn’t really have a choice, in prior videos Greg made it seem like his word was the golden truth

I think one thing that's often misunderstood is how some intelligent individuals who are involved in research view themselves. When you're involved in research, you question everything. Your data and evidence are keys to proving your hypothesis. In conversation and debates, they're often found questioning others, frequently. It can be often enough where it seems they don't believe anything anyone says. But it's more to do with how they're wired; you can't just make a claim without backing it up. Why is your claim true? How is the claim supported? Scientists are always asking questions.

@@alimehrozi2828 Greg was only humble after actually having to debate with Mike. Did you see Greg's two previous videos where he insults Mike? You got a bit of Greg on your lips there.

How’s it going now

@@soonahero going good so far, I'm getting great gains every week. My body looks bigger and I feel way more confident

Of course he listened, he came sixth place and what's a bronze medal next time. 😉

@@felldin To go with his world records and other bodybuilding wins.

@@RATM1971 he is an accomplished man for sure.

Niclas F P more accomplished than this toe he is talking to lmao.

The master loses master status when he’s no longer a student.

Mike is just allergic to closed minded people and ignorance

Mike sayed gregs obesity bf is wrong even thought Greg was right

Perfectly said!

@@miska9655 And in that sense, he could be wrong about many other things as well. But he is probably right about many things.

I suggest you look at Greg channel. You will find a lot of common sense and much more information.

Gregs an arrogant ass hat

That's why I trust him as a source for information more than Mike. Greg went in to this even asking good faith questions for his own knowledge. He shows respect for Mike's knowledge here. He has a positive attitude and Mike just doesn't. I want my source to participate in conversations this way.

Mike comes from an academic background and understands how academic debates should work. Greg is treating it like a conversation when he is supposed to be arguing in favor of his position. It may seem rude but showing weakness or conceding on certain points loses points with the audience when you are trying to convince them of your position.

Humble? The dude brags about his world record and and says he's right 99% of the time and calls people morons and talks about his degree and hisnfrench toast and how many shows he competed in every single video. Were you being sarcastic? I think they both have pretty nice sized egos

@@thomasjones9559 Humbleness in this video. Being confident is ok.

Most of these guys are jealous of how fast Gregs Channel is growing

The best part is the everything Greg said in this video, Jeff Cavaliere just made a video yesterday stating almost the exact same things. This mike guy is just looking to argue and not find common ground to talk like intelligent humans would.

@@Darth_Jester |Yes, I listened to it a couple of hours ago. I was thinking to tell people here, but I said to myself, they do not want to listen and argue forever, so screw them. But yeah, I agree with you. Jeff and Greg have a lot in common.

Alex Anabolic the difference is that Greg is more brash and loud, but having met Jeff, I know that he has the same ideals as Greg. Jeff just doesn’t yell on RU-vid, but he still cusses and uses vague words to say folks are training like pussies. 😂😂

Except Jeff Cavalier is a fraud and preaches dangerous lifting technique. The fact that he agrees with Greg makes Greg's arguement seem worse

Yeah, I'm a beginner too. The 10% rule, training to technical failure, and perhaps most of all the longer breaks between sets have really helped me after I felt like my progress slowed. I also don't have the time, or inclination, to go to the gym every day, or stay there for 20+ sets per muscle group. edit: that said, I do think Greg could improve his wording in his RU-vid videos; e.g. be clear that harder doesn't mean increased weights (necessarily) or absolute failure

@@defeqel6537 you dont need to go to the gym every day, nor do you need to do 20 sets per muscle group. You need to find out how your body responds to what dose of volume. I never go above 15 sets per bigger muscle groups per week, and never above 12 for smaller ones. Starting the mesocycle at 8 sets for bigger muscle groups (2 training sessions x 4 sets) and 6 for smaller ones (2 sessions x 3 sets). And im an intermediate lifter, been lifting for 6+yrs. I just wanted to say it because mike doesnt advocated every day training and 20 sets per muscle group. MRV is very individual

Correct, his advice and channel are for beginners.

so?? And you care about this because? Idk about the rest of you but I'm here for the information not the fantasy of some internet drama. You can "hate" people and still be able to have reasonable discussion with them. Why is it anyones business whether Mike hates Gregs guts or not? It shouldn't even come to mind In my opinion

Greg is arrogant. He mentioned in his video "i am smart and i am always right". Of course Mike wants to take him down. He also said something along the lines of "He has a PhD i have a masters. But we dont know what kind of student he was. He might have been an A student or a C student." Never have i seen someone so self-centered and full of himself.

@@mkl1464 you sir are the morons he is talking about. That's humour....It's part of his channels brand...you don't have to like it but that's what it is. Learn to read between the lines a bit here. I know you are probably used to having hand fed information given to you but gee If anything Mike looks like the arrogant one in this case, and i follow both of these guys for information and still will foloow both these guys It's not like Mike doesn't have PHD written all over his profile, so calm down about the credential dropping You're an idiot, in my opinion of course

m kl its a joke. same as with eddie hall but greg does it funnier

m kl Greg is just kinda like that, also had nothing but compliments other than those things that you quoted

No? Greg thinks RPE is only good for beginners (a position he has recently doubled down on in his last response vid to Jeff) and Mike thinks RPE is good for beginners and advanced. Greg has a big ego and training to failure or beyond failure is his most defining training advice. Of course he’s not gonna admit he’s wrong, he even lies about what ppl say in response videos to trick his audience. He once said he and Mike agrees that training to failure creates the most growth when what Mike actually said was that within a very short time frame it will but over the long term no due to fatigue. He shuts down any research based on a premise he has no evidence for and contradicts the experience of people like Omar, Jeff Nippard, and Vegan Gains. RPE or RIR isn’t rocket science. It’s literally just the advice given to total noobs except on steroids. Do people tell new lifters that they’ll make more gains by going all out and burning themselves out or do they tell them to take it easy? It’s the same philosophy. Another example of Greg lying and having too big of an ego to admit he’s wrong are the comments he leaves on Vegan Gain’s videos, one of which is literally something like “nobody cares” without attempting to debunk any of his points. Nor has he made anymore response vids to Gains because he knows if he draws more attention to Gains some ppl will be smart enough to view the points made unbiasly. In his only response to Gains about the health of plant based vs omnivore he takes a quote out of context and points to 1 study within an entire meta analysis to say that he’s right lmao there’s not even anything for Greg to be embarrassed about health wise, he has admitted many times that it’s not his speciality. Idk if he really thinks omnivore is as healthy as plant based or if he just purposely lies since telling people otherwise theoretically hurts his business. Or if he’s just like the average person and loves animal products so much that he doesn’t want to accept the truth despite having no evidence and never sticking to a quality whole foods plant based diet in his life. Anyone who does for 30 days and switches back is gonna be able to tell you it’s superior, that’s the irony we don’t even need studies we can experience it first hand. Especially if you go for months and switch back

@@KurokamiNajimi agree with most of what you said about Greg, but vegan gains is also a complete moron and there is no convincing evidence that a vegan diet is any healthier than diets with low amounts of animal products , as long as you have a lot of fruit, vegetables, nuts, etc

@@KurokamiNajimi 🤣 Vegan Gains 🤣 your opinion is worthless

@@TheMoo1231 Not sure why I never saw this comment. Depends on what you mean by low amount of animal products. If you’re arguing that eating chicken breast is equal to eating beans for example hell no but if you’re talking about eating stuff like that every once in a while it depends. I don’t really care about health studies because I’ve come to realize it’s all reliant on meta analysis rather than strict control groups. I just go by what I experience. From what I’ve come across there’s rarely anyone who ever tries following a well planned whole foods plant based diet and if they do they’re never the one who’s trying to argue omnivore is equal or superior. It seems more like everyone who is successful with it agrees that they feel shitter once their body adapts to it and they deviate too far from it. Not even just animal products but processed junk foods as well. I remember Joey Carbstrong (vegan) having a debate with another vegan about if promoting mock meats is good for the movement since they’re unhealthy. Part of his reason was that eating them gives him stomach aches. Joey was saying of course it does you’ve been primarily eating whole foods for almost 10 years. So back to if a low amount of animal products in your diet would have no backlash I’m gonna have to say no. If we know a food is inherently toxic you could reasonably assume a decrease in long term health would result from consuming it even just once a week. The extent at which you’d need strict data for but even if it’s just say going from a 1% chance to a 2% that’s technically doubling the chance

@@AngryOscillator Lol that’s not an argument. You can’t see it at the moment since VG privated all his videos due to recent channel strikes that probably are a result of the John Meadows backlash but since me making that comment he has stayed consistent with his training and was adding 5 pounds to bench a week for a few months. He reached 315 for 3 with 3 reps in the tank a couple months ago and said he planned on doing a 405 max by the end of the year. Might not get to see that on YT if he can’t get these strikes resolved. My opinion on how RPE/RIR is right or not right has changed slightly depending on the context but I still think Greg is wrong overall. My opinion is just that it’s good if your volume to intensity balance matches your experience level. I agree more with Alpha Destiny’s line of thought about max strength=max size so someone who has been lifting for 5 years and still only does high volume work imo should indeed be going to failure often to make better gains but they’d make better gains if they did a good balance of volume and intensity preferably with the conjugate approach. Alpha Destiny is the only guy we can reasonably assume is natural who has reached a 405 pause bench at 185 pounds in a bit under 10 years. He plans on doing 440 within the next 4.5 years

Exactly

I dont get this train harder thing. Most bros max out everyday at the gym. Not a good idea obviously but I dont understand how they would benefit from ''train harder''

Fernando Reyes you keep spamming this comment and the answer is simple: “maxing out” every day is not indicative of training hard. Working up to a near max to absolute 1RM and do a single set and maybe a handful of other sets does not provide a lot of training stimulus, especially in the context of hypertrophy being the primary goal.

Bryan M yea for real it’s only a two year fucking difference and mike acts like he’s leagues smarter just because he had the resources to conduct more studies but Greg’s probably stronger than him (especially at his prime ) and they both have or do abuse gear so that’s irrelevant (if you think mike natural youre crazy )

Yes, an academic debating an IFBB pro; it's like a dentist debating a patient with perfect teeth, or a cardiologist debating a runner with perfect heart health. IFBB pro's have coaches for a reason; because they don't know as much about the subject as experts in the field. This is why argument from authority is a logical fallacy.

@@elliottatwell1155 "Greg has no insight to offer because he lacks Mike's academic credentials." Bro you're literally arguing from authority. And Greg is a coach too. Miss me with that dumb shit.

@@fraternovaeres Never remotely suggested that on any level, a layman with no field relevant degree can have incredible insight (see Lyle McDonald) so complete strawman; Mike never said that Greg doesn't know anything about building muscle because he isn't as educated, Greg has a master's in kinesiology albeit an ancient one; Mike said what he said because Greg made claims that either didn't pass scientific muster or ran contrary to actual empirical research. That being said, Mike was definitely out of character on this one; you usually have to really piss him off in order for him to be this snarky and dismissive, but Greg initiated things with previous comments towards both him and Jeff Nippard.

Elliott Atwell well said me atwell I loved when you roasted v shred

Normally Greg is all wound up and screaming and Mike is super calm. Today Greg was more calm and humble sounding...first time I really enjoyed hearing Greg honestly. But Mike was clearly sort of stand offish a bit which is not his normal. I guess everyone has an off day. lol I still prefer Mike's format overall. Today however I did enjoy listening to Greg.

@@johnfurr5698 I would agree but also mention that its probably tough to remain perfectly humble when the other guy is talking so much nonsense. And it might be easier to stay humble when you realize that you are completely contradicting yourself...

@@painy6588 No? I awear to God Greg is right about morons... Man, Just to start, look at their accomplishments - Mike is nowhere near Greg, whether its bodybuilding or powerlifting. Second, Greg doesnt need to be a douche, he tries to explain things as simple as possible to reach a wider audience

@@Jacob_S13 I agree with you. Mike just loves to sound smart to people. Greg is actually the smarter man, he can take someting complicated and convert it down to something that anyone can understand. Mike doesnt have what it takes to be a teacher.. he just repeats the stuff he learned in the same complicated way that he learned it. And on top of that he is so convinced that he cant posibly be in the wrong, that he fails to see the points Greg is making. Took him ages to understand how the 10% rule works. And I think he still doesnt get that Greg is not telling everyone to train to failure but to train HARDER. (HARDER=\=FAILURE). Greg won the debate, Mike just doesnt see it and he never will...

@@Jacob_S13 I guess he is right about morons.

I was told to watch this to see the "dark side of Greg" sort of speak. I think i have more respect now than ever. I dont know why this video was used as a reference to prove their point about Greg.

He handled being pressed by mike well

What I like about Greg is he can keep up with the hyper technical views of high level exercise scientists, and distill it into advise for beginner/intermediate lifters. Maybe I’d do things slightly differently if I had three PhD’s watching me everyday and I was an Olympic athlete. But basically it comes down to “always use good form”, “train harder than last time”, and “eat low calorie dense foods”. Now I can go to the gym and eat with confidence without needing to study this stuff 24/7 and constantly question whether I’m doing things exactly right. Greg makes training and eating doable and highly effective without having to be an expert analyst. Experts can argue for years about details, but if you want to get fit to 95% of your capacity, Greg delivers.

Same I was told that this would change my opinion on Greg, but I respected him more after watching. I like that he could agree with Mike's points, but I hated that Mike didn't want to give Greg any props and kept shitting on him

@@sodarulz Mike is an extremely well-credentialed and respected sports and nutrition scientist. This collab from Greg's perspective was a chance to gain some of that clout from Mike(which Greg deserves btw). Understandable that he was being so polite and respectful whereas Mike has nothing to prove so which clearly shows.

Yea have to agree i have watced him for a very long time i am not a fan of the rather high volume he talks about but aside from that he have really good info I have taken hes info and changed alittle so i could apply to higher intensity sets (bigger loads), but yea i heard from others mike was being kinda a dick about it so i decided to watch for myself. Yes mike have a PHD and knows alot, and greg have a master and knows alot, the difference lies in their communication. Greg talks to the average person to what they can understand, and mike well he talks to people with higher levels of knowledge there is a reason why he only got 47k subs on hes channel. Cause there is not alot of people that are super smart or super into training like that, and thats a difference between the two. Greg says train harder and and if you loose 10% of your strenght then its time to move on to the next movement or go home depending on how far you are in your training, where as mike since he follows the research he will say between 3-12 sets per muscle group per session is the best, but that is a really big jump. Hell when i have coached people and told them somehwere between 10-20 sets per muscle group per week have shown to be optimal, they kinda just look at me confused and then have to explain further cause the average person do not understand it in that way. And sorry for shit tons of text.

@@RedMenace394 What video was that?, cause i did not really follow it and then i heard about a debate between the two. However greg still communicate to the average person, and mike communicate to the more well educated people. The kind that takes training and nutrition more seriously, and mike leans towards more that crowd. And like i said above ive followed mike for years and followed hes advice with some changes so it was better fitted towards heavy training.

Omar is lowest of keys exaggerating the intensity of college weight rooms. Yeah there are plenty of people trying to ego lift and getting no gains but i wouldnt call that intensity lol. And EVERY person on a machine or using dumbells was NOT pushing themself in that weight room, maybe they get a little red at the end of a set but thats about it lmfao.

Anecdote is the lowest form of knowledge

I find it's like 10% of people who train hard.

😄👍

Damn, never heard that one.Harsh and true.

alot of knuckle heads with supreme genetics out there, too

Are you even looking at Mike?

Jeremy Creason I mean I’m on Greg’s side personally but trying to say Mike doesn’t have an impressive amount of muscle on his frame is just silly.

That’s why no one listens to mike he can barely get 2k views a videon

I'd just use O'Tren at 450mg per week

@Wendy Statebolikurac his channel's name is renaissance periodization

Lol what does him being cocky have to do with the quality of his information? Them Greg followers are really just plain stupid. Have fun getting injured and stalling

I like both, but this is literally the only instance I've seen of Mike being cocky and Greg is normally nowhere near as humble as he presents himself in this debate.

They aren’t saying the same things at all

Jesse lmao then you weren’t listening when Greg starts talking about what he says to his clients he says he tells them to back off ...and train smarter

@@HappyroosterYT if you watch gregs vids when speAking about clients ie brandon harding he says the same stuff so hes being consistent

Happyrooster no u dont get it his persona is basically a drill sergeant that treats his youtube viewer like beginners that dont know why they arent getting bigger and stronger, and uses the famous quote “train hard! How hard? Harder than last time.” But he talks about his customers he coaches way more differently, because at the end of the day not everyone can have him as a coach and he would never know how hard we train so when he gets questions like why am i not getting bigger or stronger than last time his shtick comes in that your training like a pussy. Tbh it resonated and i put 25lbs on all my compounds after binging him from my recommended, his whole thing is u have to push yourself with proper form hence the dont go over failure if form is off or you need a spotter. So instead of doing 3 sets of 10 reps 275 bench one day than than the next session you do 3 sets of 11 reps 275 bench to get stronger( higher volume), keep the 3x10 but for a 290(intensity) and if u can only do 2 sets of 10 and 1 set of 8 and u cant get those last 2 no need to push yourself until the next session until ur strength develops than keep adding more weights until u can master the sets and reps.

He's trying so hard to sound smart. Just makes him sound like he doesn't know what he's talking about.

@gb_2000 Ya, but Greg never said to "go all out" either. In fact, he constantly makes fun of how it seems like everyone on youtube and IG fitness plays in these extremes. Saying people need to "train harder" isn't the same thing as going all out. Greg's whole point is that people often underestimate what they can actually do and they undertrain "like pussies." The word choice is just his sense of humor but i'm pretty sure any gym rat could look around their gym and agree with him. Even the studies Jeff Nippard talked about recently agreed with this. tl;dr Greg and Mike aren't even really saying anything different once you peel back the scientific terminology. "RP Periodization" and "train harder today than yesterday" are in alignment.

gb_2000 they are defining going all out differently tho

@@catzilla6279 He is smart, one of the smartest guys in the fitness realm. He knows exactly what he's talking about

@@Agnes135 Then why is he trying to make something so simple sound complicated... that's not how smart people explain things.

It's not very hard to pay attention to the feeling in your muscles.

​@@MrCmon113no it's we are not talking about you but people how are just mad they probably will work to hared without plan in mind

Its pretty funny how ppl are easily misled by herd mentality blindly jumping on the bandwagon hating on Mike accusing him of having superiority complex just because he has a PhD. The underlying reason why he was so passive aggressive was that Greg had made videos abt Jeff Nippard and thinks he works out like a pussy. Mike sees Jeff as a friend hence he was defensive and aggresive, he sees it as a platform to prove Greg wrong instead of a having debate. While it was unprofessional of Mike to bring in emotions into what was supposed to be a scientific professional debate, you all dont get to scrutinise his credibility over an attitude for defending his friend. Maybe if yall check out Mikes videos, you will finf quality as well just like Greg. Both are great youtubers, instead of further adding fuel to the fire, we should be bringing them togethwr settle the beef and have quality debates

@@johnwig285 your mum gay

@@johnwig285 Yeah he said Jeff Nippard works out like a pussy. Boo hoo, he also told his viewers to follow him and learn from him. He encouraged viewers to get knowledge even from people he PARTIALLY disagrees with so that we can draw our own conclusions. Stop focusing on words so much and start reading the intentions.

Sharion Jeff is. Pussy though. I’m pretty sure I could kick his ass in a fight.

@@johnwig285 that doesnt excuse anything lol

100 agree

You'll only get hurt 90+% due to exorcise selection. Hardly anyone talks about exorcise selection and what's biomechanically appropriate for the muscle. All of what these 2 talk about is due to exorcise selection. I've tried the more efficient isolated movements and you can do more volume, you have more load and there are different variables. Even periodazation can be useless, if and only if you train this way. The study of different exorcises is what we need more study on because it will change things and exorcise selection is the foundation of the routine but yet hardly anyone sees it that way. Once you get into compound exorcises, especially with heavy intensity and volume then it's not the same for other more efficient lifts for one given muscle. We MUST look at exorcise selection.

On that note, if you try the brig 20, this can be a great start for more efficient less fatigued workouts. Still optimal, if not more so to pack on muscle. Especially if your advance and very strong; your erector spinae will give out on technique before your quads or hip flexers ever will, we must see this and have more efficient ways of muscle work even during studies, they should associate with only one muscle and I mean complete isolation with full ROM and good technique. That's how studies should go, everything should be looked at in a individual muscle frame and then do studies on compound lifts or movements.

this comment only looks stupider over the years

What tf did I just read?

God I had a finance teacher who sucked Warren Buffet off all the time, he’s not special he got lucky and money snowballs. If you start with more you’ll end with a whole lot more. Warren Buffet killed local businesses

Yeah solid point. Omar did a great job and is still by far my favorite youtube channel. It was also the first fitness channel I subscribed too.

@nick...just waiting for you :) He did do a great job!

John Furr same here! I’ve been subscribed to this channel since at least 2013... could’ve been 2012, but either way he’s always kept the core of this channel the same & consistent

He didnt.

Jeff nippard was asked to monitor it but he didn’t like Greg so didn’t and I don’t think he be as good as Omar with it

Its his natty powers

It's all French toast and popcorn power

So they've both helped you but you don't like either of them???!!! WTF!!!???

@@WizzdummHeadley you can like the knowledge, and not the person sharing it

CMEConquerVids couldn’t agree more

Thank you 👏👏🙌🙌💯💯

Truth

And Mike was super boring. This was so hard to watch.

Christopher Huber I "do science" (although not of the exercise variety) and still don't really understand what I'm supposed to be doing! So I just go to the gym and train harder than last time 😂

Lawhd Keif true. Most people are too stupid to even comprehend Greg’s point.

Why can't one do five good controlled reps? It an be a great rep range for some people. It doesn't have to be 12-15 reps to be in control.

inhim7777777 it can be! But I was just stating what he advocates and what he is trying to prevent against.

@@shannonmorgan4190 Yeah. I think that's a false dichotomy of his. Also, so much research has now shown, as Mike says, that anywhere between 5-30 reps is going to be fine for hypertrophy (maybe not fatigue).

inhim7777777 Good point. “Higher reps” to failure (15ish) is much less taxing in my experience than 5 reps to failure which can be fatiguing and dangerous.

Simpel watch tomorrow

@User 2389 thats why he has more money than you

@User 2389 they’ll never get it. Lol

@@gustavpropovski9932 Plenty of low IQs are rich dude

@@user-jw6yh4ev4n but not you.

@@gustavpropovski9932 Wow ur so smart

Yes

catonic At the end of the day this is Mike (and others) feeling threatened and wanting to wash Greg from the fitness industry; that may sound ridiculous but I’ll explain why. Natural lifters flock to RU-vid to find the perfect RPE/intensity/volume/frequency that is suddenly gonna make their untapped gains explode and make them what they have always wanted to be. The truth is, consistent hard work is the only answer. Mike knows that, but his over complication makes naturals feel like they have found some sort of secret recipe to gains since super smart doctor guy is prescribing complicated programming. Greg saying to just keep training harder than last time is scary and demotivating for people, but it’s the truth and it hurts business for people like Mike who sell snake oil.

@catonic How can you be more prepared when someone just says everything, ie the 10% rule, definition of obesity, etc is wrong? It's like saying the sky is blue and someone saying, "no, the sky isn't blue" as they laugh in a smug and arrogant manner. At some point you just have to say F it and the let the little crybaby have their way because nothing you can say is right even if it 100% agrees with them.

great comment, bang on

Let's be real, Mike probably had an inferiority complex because they both competed in the same fields and Mike did not accomplish his goals while Coach Greg set a world record and got in the top 10 in the recent bodybuilding competition which would help his coaching career. I realized as I kept typing that it was making Mike seem more and more petty.....I don't know if it's true, it's just an assumption. It might be true, we don't know

He's the angry nerd that got picked on at school.

You could tell he just didnt like him and had no interest in potentially learning anything from him, he just wanted to make Greg sound like an idiot/POS. Mike: *describes Greg's audience as idiots going crazy and killing themselves at the gym for no reason* Greg: "50% of my audience are morons" Mike: "Wow, I cant believe you think so lowly of your audience do they realize you do that?" like what????

Zack Name so when Greg calls me a moron, he really means it? :(

@@margitarajovic7981 idk man

Mike: "Why do you give that advice?" Greg: "It helped me build a pro physique and has helped my clients build pro physiques." Mike: "Okay yeah but which labcoat gave you permission?"

Phillip Rodriguez you shouldn’t be surprised, mike and omar are bro’s

Mike is an over educated idiot who overcomplicates everything

LMAO

😂😂

He is at least on The juice

Lmao

XDDDDD TRU LOL

Greg is more popular. There's also a lot of idolization that goes on in his community. He's viewed as the down-to-earth guy that isn't worried about the details. This is fine for most things, but in a debate about what works *best*, you can't ignore what the research says, which is what Mike is trying to present. I'm just disappointed with the way Mike acted at points in this debate.

Mike is 1000000% correct

Except for that he was strawmaning Greg's arguments quite often throughout this discussion. One example was when he(mike) says that people shouldn't go to failure and get rounded backs on the deadlift (Asserting that it's what Greg is spewing to his audience)Greg never said to absolute failure, he said to go to technical failure (that was established within the first few minutes of the discussion). This in its entirety, came down to tone policing Greg Doucette, because they were mostly in an agreement anyways, but they didn't like the way that he expressed his opinions/beliefs. I've never seen Mike this unprofessional and bad faith before.

@@karsten9387he doesn’t like greg

Wow

Wuuut lmaoooo when was this ?

Insaiyan Training when he was talking about Jeff lolol

@@tylergregory9533 broo could you maybe put a time stamp haha I'm at the 50 min mark

To be fair, he's quoting her; she called herself a whale.

He also said "the elephant in the room" 😂❤️

Camden Belliveau 👌👌

Well said, i feel like this sums up a lot of people's perspective with this video

Camden Belliveau very true statement, its kind of childish of mike.

I don't know. It's like him saying "training to failure is not bad, but then again I might be wrong".

Mike is just the angry nerd that is jealous of a Greg's results and is mad Greg humiliated him publicly for over complicating something Greg is clearly better at.

Same. I like mikes perspectives but his attitude is less than desirable

Chicken Spheres 😂😂

ZEEEROOO ZEEEROOO

apparently Mike is also all above mentioned including jew jetsu pro grapler

Zeeto

Greg isn't a doctor

Michael Franco He is a butthurt that’s why

If they were in the same room, Mike would literally attacked Greg.

Celo calm down bro lol

Mike would have total distain towards the detectives questioning him after he killed Greg. Mikes the type of guy who would feel he would have to represent himself in the murder case against him for killing Greg.

Celo your a moron

They do briefly mention that studies showed advanced trainees were accurate in their estimation of RPE's, but thats where we fall into Mike overestimating and Greg underestimating the experience of the audience. Mike has a lot of faith that all the people watching can accurately measure their effort in the gym, which if that was true we'd all be seeing a lot more jacked dudes in our gyms.

Link the study through? Was it a meta-analysis?

AMEN AND AWOMEN

@@code5829 ACIRCLEEES

No it was the juiciest part