Over the past year we've made some serious progress on this project, come check out Part 2: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-c-pWliufu6U.html
I like that this guy's first thought when creating a sentient being is to make it play doom as if "can it play doom" is a benchmark that should apply to living organisms and not just old computers
If unnamed kid brother could play Doom succesfully in 1990s, there is nothing to wonder if a couple of rat's brain cells would play that game better! 🤤
A lot of people don't know this, but the motor units inside muscles are binary, rather than analog, in nature. That means if you are using 80% effort to perform a physical task and you have 10 motor units, 8 of them are "on" and 2 of them are "off", rather than 80% of each motor unit being "on" like you would probably assume. Not sure how this relates to neurons but I thought I'd mention it.
I didn't realize until the start of this video, but a meat robot is basically a homunculus. Crazy how sometimes science loops back abound to its historical roots in alchemy.
If this is a homunculus, then so are things like ChatGPT and all the other AIs. Hell, our CPUs and GPUs probably count as well, with the amount of 'neurons' and 'connections' it has. This video really had me thinking on the nature of conciousness and humanness.
@dejavuism I'd say current AI tech isn't really anywhere close to complex enough to be considered conscious though. And while a GPU might have a lot of connections, I wouldn't consider it a homunculus either. I think the meat robot is close to the idea of a homunculus because of its organic nature, what with alchemical homunculi being artificial humans and all.
well, the capabilites lie in different areas, the brain is more complex and powerful than our ai, yes, but ai is seldom delusional or willfully ignorant id imagine too...Plus human error and all its nuances
@@DG-iw3yw I was about to [jokingly] say "uhh I'm pretty sure ChatGPT has been both delusional and willfully ignorant"... but if anything, that actually reinforces your point 😂 (and to the inevitable nerd that comes along to tell me that chatGPT wasn't _actually_ delusional or willfully ignorant: shut up. just.. shut up )
most of the games you listed are singleplayer only one that's multiplayer is Tetris, and even then matches of that can get pretty sweaty all things considered@@alexkha
@@LightPink because there isn't, but when you're doing cutting edge research like that, even if you don't publish afterwards (and nothing point to them not doing that, this seems more than worthy enough), you're pushing the field forward.
I’m terrified of the idea of severed brain cells learning to circle strafe at top speed and proceeding to play the game with the skill caliber of a professional speedrunner
This is already happening with machine learning, which is literally bruteforcing any possibility simultaneously by abusing the ridiculously INSANE computational power of hardware
@@sa2-2k14 i know, but that’s a machine emulating the human ability to grow and learn. I’m talking about organic material severed from it’s original environment learning how to do the same kind of stuff on it’s own without any kind of assistance from the rest of the body it originated from. THAT sounds like brain-in-a-jar kind of stuff, which is exactly what this seems to be, minus the brain itself.
Honestly, the concept of growing actual organic brains, even minituarized ones, with just a few cells or loose tissues grown artificially out of an actual organism to do tasks or control a computer sounds FAR more terrifying than the digital AIs...
@@Nerdnumberone I would assume human neurons are better at doing what they do because they need to organize in a more complex way in the brain and so they are better at creating useful connections... As for the pain thing I think that you would need to have a real brain to have the "pain problem": it would have to be really complex to begin suffering I think, and also if you tune the system right even if it had self consciousness (that I think is needed to suffer) you would not need to make it really suffer: it's enough to make an error create an unpleasant situation and a correct response a pleasant one I think, no need for pain
No you didn't you taught them how to pilot a mech to press certain buttons that translate into certain actions and you choose what actions to do based on sensory signals based on light wavelengths (eyes) Very different
@@puppyqueen5688while yes, that’s a very surface level interpretation. Mary Shelley was a romantic who opposed the enlightenment, Industrial Revolution, and heroic era of medicine. Frankenstein was written as a ‘cautionary tale’ about the dangers of pushing science too far which was happening at the time. The monster is a physical representation of the horrors that happen when science is pushed too far, these horrors (the monster) eventually catching up with humanity (Frankenstein and his family being killed)
As a PhD student in biomedical engineering focusing on stem cells and blood vessel organoids, this series is a awesome to watch and gives me a lot of ideas to try!
I find this stuff fascinating, i have one more year of high-school and plan on going into biomedical engineering, i feel i know what it's about pretty well but I'd love if you could spare the time to explain some of the things you and/or your colleagues do in as much detail you seem fit. Thanks in advance.
@@Jason-rp3jg no but they might actually do something with this idea instead of "can you run doom on a brain" (and j realise that theyre making the brain cells play doom instead of run it I used 'run doom' to emphasize the meme origin of this)
@@jan-Sopija yeah like helping paralyzed people interact with the world in unique and useful ways. The applications of using cells with computers and stuff as well as modifying them are endless.
Imagine playing a multiplayer game someday, and you just get destroyed by literal neurons Edit: Istg people need to understand why I said *literal neurons* and not neurons controlling a human body 💀
To be fair, we are basically neurons making controlled seizures (or shocks, heh) to a hunk of meat. Ennard controlling a corpse husk makes more sense now.
@@soupcangaming662just imagine how our flesh is miserable in gaming compared to naked neurones, while we have to see a threat, send a signal for our hand to contract index finger so that we shoot it, neurones basically see threats and shoot immediately
i remember watching the rat cells control the flight simulator like 17 years ago on the science channel. i'm so glad that you have revived this and brought it back to people's attention.
Imagine having different batches compete against each other in Quake. Then through years of tweaking and improving generations of this, you create the ultimate force of gaming neurons.
i think if you can play doom you can run doom because you're experiencing it which I think would mean you're simulating what you're experiencing in your head (to some degree)
This video made me cry. Thank you, you give me hope that although I'm stuck with a crappy lab and professors, there are still real scientists out there doing real scientific experiments.
@@chilling_at_pontiffThe number of cells has very little to do with their function. A dog's brain is way bigger than a rat's, but they aren't significantly smarter.
@@BiggityBoggity8095 Okay can i have your truth about what you claim ?? Because i never played dooms but have digg into a lot a video that explain dooms ! And to what i know it is not 3d at all ! Only 2d image pre selected through the view of the player to only render a multi 2d image "collage" or paste together ! That why dooms can be play on a electronic pregnancy test of even electric thermometer ! And if you say well there is stair and level .... Well yes but it still in 2d ! When you use a elevator or a doors sometime the game teleport you to a another location in a 2d map ! what you see is only a 2d rendering and the clever trick of John carmack (wich is not is own idea there is a github explain the code to anyone with a goode levl in math ) is to only a reverse square formula to skip the impossible 3d rendering they were aiming to do ! Just think about it it was a time were Graphic card wasnt even at 1gig of ram for the randoms pc owner ! But i'll be more than happy to be wrong and learn a feww things about it ! But i'm sure the first 3d engine weren't 3d at all and use a trick to rendering false 3d ! You know that's why you can't have bullet impact on the wall or smoke grenade ... it's particule rendering or 3d object with own physic wich the game can copy and lie about but can not do by the way redering doom is ; Just like the video say the game is 2d :/
Ok so this video taught me something. I have ADHD and get Overstimulated A LOT and when I do it’s chaotic noise and unintelligible yelling. The noise is chaotic and you said that neurons naturally try to avoid that and i definitely avoid being overstimulated so I bet that my brain is trying to get me to un-overstimulate myself
This is absolutely stunning on my opinion. The fact that this can be a real, living thing with very primitive intelligence, and it learns how to play a geme. But at the same time, this is funny because just imagine you wake up and you're just Doom guy
It's highly exaggerated. Most functioning, like the idea of aiming and firing is based on binary computer logic. Only dedicated decision-making might add a tiny bit to what otherwise would be a program with some RNG-trickery.
I recall in Star Trek, they have something called bio-neutral gel packs. The concept is that neural-based processors which allow "fuzzy logic" for faster processing time. This is cool.
@@Jason-rp3jg most people today would likely be uncomfortable with the notion of grafting a human brain permanently into a computer. Especially in this format, where it's freedom is so dramatically reduced.
@@irmatrollIf he and his partners don't have the morality and self control to stop themselves from doing this. They need to be involuntarily hospitalized. They are not well, they need help because this is pure sociopathy and something no one should ever even consider. They have lost it. I hope they realize the consequences of their actions are vile and reprehensible so they can get the therapy and psychiatric help they desperately need.
Man made horrors beyond our comprehension - or wonders beyond our comprehension. It just depends on whether humanity continues to value human/sentient rights.
@@sanstheblaster2626 RU-vid is man-made, yet its algorithms are not fully understood by anyone on the planet. Current LLMs like gpt 4 are also man-made, and their algorithms are not understood at all. Man-made =/= comprehensible
The brain in a vat is a philosophical thought experiment and while certainly interesting, shall remain as such for quite a while, as keeping a mammalian brain alive in vitro would require some substantial leaps in science - not even mentioning the ethical concerns. Grown neuronal networks have nothing compared to the highly specialized cell types, nuclei and networks (and much more) we possess.
It's cool you guys are using Intan. I do neuroscience research at a university and Intan is our go-to for ephys stuff. The RHS system is really nice being able to stim and record at the same time. The amp settling rate sucks though, it's like half a second before the recording signal is reliable. We go through a lot of those headstages because we use them with awake rats. Gotta love those NIH grants XD
Its interesting; I think that if the neurons that were being used as the AI to train to play DOOM were to become somehow sentient, that "brain" would, from a philosophical perspective, be able to perceive only the world of DOOM that it is connected to. Really makes simulation theory sound a lot more weird if we think of it in this type of context, lol!
@@thomabow8949 ah my mistake, you're right. I guess I meant brain in the metaphorical sense as a collection of neurons forming one? Idk I'm not a neurologist
<a href="#" class="seekto" data-time="337">5:37</a> Don't think you can slide that meme past me, sir. "The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't."
So let me get this straight: you guys are gonna grow Metroid clones of yourselves out of your own skin cells, and then train them to play competitive deathmatch against each other? Finally, the future's starting to seem interesting
I've been looking forward to this project for years. But now that it's here - I think I'm even more excited for IPSs and Brain Organoids. What you're doing in this video is crazy, but I had no idea these things could be done outside an institute or pharma company. Please keep up the good work! I don't want to wait a few more years for the next one.
@@Yuuri066yeah, and if you can do it yourself, you can share what you learn and such (I'm sure at most of the places with the equipment, you'd need to sign NDAs)
@@Yuuri066 it's mostly because it is an extremely new and unregulated field (new in we're just now getting to grow these) in some years, if shit becomes like chatgpt it'll probably have more regulations
Halfway through the video I forgot the whole purpose of this video and was just really fascinated about it all and then I was like "wait this dood is gonna play DOOM on these things lmfao"
Doom was all about demonic living tissue being fused to machinery, the fact that its the game you use to test all of this is simply amazing! This project is incredible and I truly believe in the near future it will be fully appreciated. Keep up the AMAZING work!!!
@@Dejawolfs He's referring to the cyberdemon, the revenant, the spider mastermind, the arachnotrons, the mancubus and the icon of sin, along with the various instances of some sections of levels having demonic meat tissue growing inside of man made structures and "infecting" them. Pretty much every doom game has multiple bio mechanical demon enemies.
Literally mythought though 😂 tell me thats not what we are now 😂 they can attach the nuerons to a meat suit or a robot, we are biological technology, biological being what we can "natural" 😂
There's a trick to increase adhesion of PDMS to glass slabs, which is to treat the glass slab with plasma. Might help with the leakage of the biological glue. Maybe even PDMS serves as a good substitute.
One thing that might be interesting to test is the effects of Psilocybin during training. In humans it supposedly allows our neurons to rewire and communicate differently leading to neuroplacisity
Maybe for first few years, but then, I think that a "feeding network" will be established. Sidenote: Imagine if living blocks became literal living blocks. Will their walls be out of bones?
I think that it would not be that more difficult than what they are doing (obviously it is incredible in general)(I do not know basically anything on the subject apart from what they explained in the video): I think they would "just" have to make the thing bigger and write some more code that would still be similar, then I think, given that the smaller version works properly, that it should be able to play Minecraft, or at least perform relatively simple tasks in the game, like mining
The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn’t. By subtracting where it is from where it isn’t or, where it isn’t from where it is (whichever is greater) *vigorous sucking sounds* it obtains a difference or deviation. This deviation thrusts the missile to a position where it wasn’t, and a position where it wasn’t it now is.
Imagine if a super intelligent AI exterminated all humans except for a select few and they genetically modify them into living computers to live out the pain and suffering of being made up of several trillion wires spread out across several kilometers. That’s what I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream is. Seems like something fun the Qu would do though.
@@therealspeedwagon1451 exactly. It brings the 'living in a simulation' hypothesis very close to home and I guess that is, to me, the most unsettling part. This isn't fiction, this is becoming reality, right here and now.
I guess maybe because ive experienced ego death before, I realize how extremely uneducated and ignorant you people are in the scheme of things. Just running in circles, killing things and torturing for eons and eons... Then being killed and tortured by those same creatures... Literally never learning from your own mistakes. Because you are unintelligent, and cringe.
We tried to do this about 10 years ago at friend's home lab but it was hard for us to manufacture at home a decent PCB net. We didn't have nice low noise amps back then so we said fuck it and connect it to vacuum valve triodes and to the magic eye tubes, so it glowed randomly as neurons would fire. That was a cool looking thing, straight outta Frankenstein.
This reminds me of a thought experiment we had in philosophy, “Are we just brains in a vat?”. This video certainly puts things in a whole new perspective for me.
Imagine the rat neurons gain self-consciousness and then thinks that it is in a vat. Then some neurons agree but some disagree, and they/it will never know if it is in a computer. Really bends the definition of reality.
The concept of a cyborg in science fiction has never, as far as I know, started with a machine and added organs to it. So this is really neat, if a little scary
It has a few times, but it's very rare. For example, in the Eclipse Phase TTRPG your character can be an AI that saved up money from it's dayjob of managing social media for a megacorp and left cyberspace in an artificially made biological body it bought to walk around in the "real" world with, because it wants to LARP as a street samurai.
What about the T-800 terminator? It has a skeletal form that is 100% a machine, and living tissue can be added on top of it to turn it into an infiltrator terminator
@@kydelvetus642I think the lack of meaningful connection to the machine makes it not a cyborg. It's a full machine, it's just wearing skin like a costume.
@@lastyhopper2792 But they would be genetically identical. Yes, they're only a couple thousand neurons but you could eventually make them larger. Where do you draw the line from a cluster of cells to a lab grown human without a body?
@@hae9903 Did I interpret sgtmajorkiwi's "reflect" differently from you? Anyhow, the answer to your question is I don't know. I believe the one who is responsible to find the answer to that question would be these scientists who are currently experimenting with biological brains. They have the ethical responsibility to prevent a conscious being from undergoing involuntary experiments.
