Gym Bros vs. Fat Activists - How Did it Get Political? 

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I have a friend who’s been bigger all her life. At one point a few years ago (before covid) she joined a dance class, purely because she loves dancing. And simply as a result of going to this dance class, without changing anything else she lost a significant amount of weight and got a lot physically fitter. But after a while she started experiencing breathlessness when she did any exercises and it actually stopped her from doing the dancing that she loved. She went to the doctor and explained that she’d lost all this weight doing dancing but now she couldn’t keep up with it because of constantly being breathless and guess what the doctor said. That she needed to lose weight. That her breathlessness was a result of her being overweight and unfit and she needed to lose weight and do more exercise. After being told that she had recently lost a lot of weight and got a lot fitter but was now unable to continue with that because of this medical issue. It’s utterly infringing

I was raised extremely fundie with in the Christian church. The weight “issue” is so real in that circle. I was told to fast for 40 days, only drinking water, no food at all. I witnessed a woman fast for 120 days. I never saw that woman again. I have no clue if she actually passed away from her fasting for Jesus, but her weight loss from those 120 days was very scary. I was told that god loves our sacrifices to him and fasting was the best sacrifice of all. Amazingly enough however, the men weren’t being told to fast…? Very harmful things being promoted from across the board with this topic.

I'm an older gym goer and finding a gym where you're comfortable as a senior woman can be challenging. But more than that, my goals have really changed. Weight loss is nice, when it happens, but my focus is on strength, mobility and balance. Your message that it's personal and individual is an important one.

Body neutrality was a huge game changer for me. When I was a teenager, I had raging body dysmorphia. I was at the gym 4 times a week on the clock, for an entire year I've never missed training once. I moved significant weights for my age, but I didn't realize how much I was robbing myself of natural potential by doing excessive cardio. Now, eight years later, I am much stronger and can actually enjoy workout, because I finally accepted that my body doesn't owe anyone anything. It doesn't have to be beautiful, I don't even have to like it, its chief function is to carry my brain around. And my body is extremely good at it. So I have nothing more to ask, truly.

46:00 Don't forget that Ahmaud Arbery was running when he was murdered because racists thought he was suspicious.

I remember when I was in high school and Titanic had just come out & blown up that there were SO MANY jabs & jokes in media about how Kate Winslet was “fat.” 🙄

I was in the army for ~7 years. The height and weight standards absolutely wrecked so many of the soldiers I knew, not because they were fat or lazy or anything, but because the way it's done does not take anything beyond height and weight into account. At my best I was ~145lbs at 5' 2", doing morning PT (including running) and weightlifting 5 days a week, and obsessively monitoring my caloric intake. I was strong, I liked the way I looked some of the time and the way I felt most of the time. I was consistently passing my PT tests, but I was only 1% under the maximum allowed body fat percentage. Every time I had a height and weight, it tanked my self-image and pushed me toward very unhealthy habits. I was never officially told to starve myself or take extreme measures before a height and weight measurement, but I had leadership tell me that I could take certain "supplements" to help lose weight quickly (water pills, laxatives, etc), that I could just not drink water for the 12-24 hours before a weigh in, that I could go to the gym sauna on post and see how long I could hang out in there. I've seen perfectly healthy people (myself included) do dangerous crash diets, take questionable substances, and injure themselves trying to hit a height and weight standard that was often inaccurate and definitely harmful to our mental and physical health. Juice cleanses, MLM "challenges", Whole30 challenges, and a few did steroid cycling. One soldier did significant damage to his gut health by abusing laxatives to lose weight. He was strong, he was visibly muscular, he was athletic, and he was starving himself because the height and weight measurements put him close to failing. This dude was 19ish and he spent his free time either in the gym or watching mukbang and eating contest videos and saying that he wished he could eat like that.

I think creators like Joey Swoll are doing a fantastic job making the gym feel more welcoming for others. He specifically calls out ANYONE who films, harasses, or mocks other people at the gym, reminding them that everyone is there to improve their health or fitness in some way. He makes people like me less afraid to step into a gym space.

To add an interesting element to all this, as someone who needs a lot of protein due to my body just being like that, anytime I search easy foods with protein, I get a ton of dieting sites that are like CARBS AND CALORIES BAD, meanwhile anytime I add "for bodybuilding" to it, there's a lot more "need to eat food to build body, calories good" and it just triggers my high school eating disorders waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less.

I think theres a fine line between acknowledging harmful body and beauty standards and acknowledging how food and life habits affect health and that line is often made blurry by the long long history of lies, misinformation, emotional insecurity, medical malpractice, and more that have effected how we percieve our bodies.

It was so bad, being told at every yearly checkup, by the pediatrician "oh, you have to lose weight", then having my food intake be the only thing i had direct control over, as a child with heavily authoritarian parents who lived by the "children should be seen and not heard" adage with a side of "you are child and therefore know nothing". The ONE thing that my parents gave me any leeway or choice in was what, when, and how much i ate. Everything else was "do as i say or get spanked".

Thanks again so much for letting me be a part of this!

I am a 33 yo physically disabled person who has been classified as "overweight" since I was 15/16 - I was only diagnosed with my genetic physical disability 2 years ago (it is very difficult to get diagnosed, especially if you are viewed as "fat"). However, I am very strong, because of my disability, my muscles work overtime to compensate for my flimsy joints. BUT I cannot, and should not, do certain workouts or diets - most of that stuff isn't made for someone like me and can seriously harm me. Working out, weight loss, dieting, etc. is and 100% should be an individual choice for everyone - as long as they are not hurting themselves! ❤ I loved this video. It was so insightful and inclusive. Thank you, Savy.

a thing i think about quite a lot is my aversion to working out & discontent with my body comes from gym class in school. at least in America, gym class seems built entirely on humiliating and shaming children. between failing to do pull ups for the first time in front of the entire class, forced to run 5 miles in the middle of july and then get shamed by teachers when you need a break, or even just the whole presidential fitness test... it really ingrains into a child's mind that exercise is torturous and awful and makes you really loathe your body.

okay, speaking as a type 1 diabetic, the fact that everybody just kind of assumes that diabetes is exclusively diet-specific type 2 cases makes me angry. what makes me even angrier is when people claim that you can lower insulin doses (or not take insulin altogether) just by eating crash diets like keto or Dr. Joel Fuhrman's diet. I see a lot of things that supposedly are designed to keep the diabetic alive, but actually kills them slowly over time in the same malicious way as insulin resistance and the autoimmune response. Steven Crowder's targeted harassment of fat-positive people makes me angry, but at the same time, this video thrusts me so hard into the bad headspace I was in during August and September of last year where I was thrown headfirst into the insulin dependency.

As an asthmatic and as an autistic person who struggles with adding additional "chores" to my daily schedule, exercising regularly has always been very hard for me. Not only that, but the thought of dieting or limiting the kinds of food I eat is impossibly stressful to me. I'm starting to try and squeeze in little things when I can though. A couple of minutes of wall sitting or lunges a day when I can bring myself to. I don't think anybody should be forced or feel pressured into exercising a certain way or losing weight. People should feel comfortable to live the way they want.

Haes is about separating fat from health and attractiveness. Like instead of saying "you can't run very far because you're fat" you'd reframe it to "if you want to run further you'll need to exercise more. You'll quite likely lose weight with exercise but maybe you won't and that's okay. No matter what size, you can still become a better runner and live a healthy life".

I am way too introverted to really go to a gym. I like working out at home, where I can decide what kind of workouts I wanna do.

as a german, lifting, lefty (with a history major) i remember well when one of my german, lifting, lefty friends told me about the somerton video with the "nazi-muscle-theory". jesus christ did i laugh :D

It is extremely upsetting to me how much sped-up Todd sounds like Ben Shapiro.

I was overweight when i was a child and severely bullied to the point i dropped out of school i started getting into fitness when I was a teenager over the years i have changed my routine im now doing resistance exercises with bands and weights im planning on getting a kettlebell im 33 now

jesus the 'dating coach' guy was difficult to even listen to. as someone who survived living with an abusive partner: 'respect' is not what they care about, it's obedience, and no amount of respect or deference will save you from abuse. that dude is beyond disgusting. i do definitely see why he has a chip on his shoulder about people he perceives to be 'interesting' tho! wishing him much therapy.

Most medical providers do automatically assume that size = health. It's a very real bias, unfortunately. I've seen it often as a thin woman who is assumed healthy due to weight, although I actually have multiple chronic health issues. I imagine it must be super painful and demoralizing to be on the other end of that assumption. Didn't we all learn correlation doesn't mean causation in like middle school? I hope this harmful assumption shifts soon.

I recently had major health problems because of fatty liver & recovered with a 40 pound weight loss & didn't talk about it on social media except in vague terms because I knew it would be hurtful to friends who have really been hurt by anti-fat bias, but it also made me feel like I was without the social supports that are normally in my life. There's a medical side to this & a cultural side & I think a lot of people conflate the two. On the medical side, obesity does cause health problems in at least some circumstances, but also gets blamed for irrelevant stuff & causes problems and weight loss itself can also be medically dangerous. On the cultural side, body acceptance people are right. Obesity being unhealthy is no reason to discriminate against people or harass them. Unhealthy cultural ideas of thinness can also get into peoples heads in a lot of ways without overt harassment, so we need to be careful how we present things.

When I went to the gym as tween, it was because I was lonely and angry and needed something to punch without hurting anyone. During my self defence classes did I meet a lot of really nice men and women, who made me feel welcome and helped me overcome a really hard transition time. They never pressured me to loose my extra weight and even talked a girl out of dieting culture, because she was hurting herself like that. It was a really small gym and they were super welcoming and open to everybody. They were my second family for a while.

this is among the best piece of media about fatphobia out there. I've been fat most of my life and went through the gauntlet. I have a condition too that makes losing weight so difficult, but that doesn't matter to people who have already made a value judgment on me. I have recently returned to the gym -- starting slow -- with a friend who is also fat. We found a great gym because everyone has been helpful and supportive. And that is how it should be. It's been sticking and I'm at the point, I'm even enjoying it and feel physically better just from moving (especially since I work in a cube all day). I really appreciate how this video is basically "if you're fat, you're wonderful no matter what. And if you go to the gym, you're wonderful too (unless you're a jerk)."

Savvy: watch the whole thing before commenting! Me: uh oh… To address the topic that the title suggests, I think the reason for the right thinking the left is fat and unhealthy is because the left doesn’t body shame (as much) as the right. Both sides shame, but there’s more body positivity on the left, especially where healthcare and weight intersect. Personally, I know that for improved health, I could lose a few pounds, but I also know that the stress hormone cortisol is a factor in weight retention and so rather than trying to kill myself at the gym in an attempt to lose enough weight that my back hurts less, I’m choosing to focus on my living situation and attempting to reduce stress. After living with my much slimmer sister for about 6 months, I learned that she eats more food and more calories than I do and also exercises far less than I used to, and the only (changeable) difference was that she had a high paying job and didn’t have money worries, shelter instability, or kids. TL;DR: if you’re stressing, it’s harder to lose weight

What pisses me off about "body positivity" is that it erases the problems working class people deal with when it comes to food. It ignores WHY so many people are getting fat and just says "Well actually its ok to be fat!" Which, sure. I agree. If you want to be fat, go nuts its your body not mine. But he fact its so easy for someone to get fat in this country has caused so much destruction

The medical field is where I would like to see the most change. My first ever OBGYN told me I wouldn't have kids because I'm fat. I've had 3 healthy kids. I almost missed major reproductive health issues because I was so gaslit into thinking that my struggles weren't real health issues. It was my own fault for being fat.

My two cents as someone from a Caribbean country (majority Afro and Indian descent) and yeah we didn't prioritise being skinny literally ever. The "does this make my butt look big?" thing in western media NEVER made sense to me. Cause bigger butts was always the move for us, a lot of our women are curvy. Also from my experience, a lot of aunties and stuff associate health with being a little larger cause to them you're eating well. So if you're thin they comment on it cause they assume you're not eating enough. The also associate size with maturity. We casually refer to age groups as "big" and "small" so I wonder if this plays into it. So we say "look how big she get" and that's a compliment or a neutral statement for us. "Putting on size" as well call it, particularly as a woman, is just associated with aging. Again, especially for aunties and stuff they expect you to put on weight as you grow into a woman and that's cool. Most of our women are not thin by western standards. My foreign friend has told me about how different she was treated upon losing weight, and how she receives more compliments for her size here than back home. Curvy is and has always been the peak for us, and obviously not all of our women are curvy but a lot are. We generally regard our women as very beautiful too. I'm not saying fatphobia doesn't exist here, but I would say it's much less intense and we have a higher threshold for what we consider fat. And even if you are considered fat (I wouldn't say this extends to our opinion of obese but specifically the word fat) that's not a bad thing.

thank you for addressing ableism and how disability and chronic illness fit into this conversation! Health can be a very worthy goal for any lifestyle choice, but tying morality to it has far more implications than just fatphobia. I have several chronic illnesses, and am not “healthy” despite putting more time, effort, thought, and energy into my health than most people will ever have to! People don’t get to control every single factor that affects the size or functionality of their body, and feeing guilt for the things you *do* get to choose isn’t helpful. Live your life, be kind, and don’t attach moral significance to topics that don’t need it 💜

I’m not super far into this video but just wanted to say that I really like how you’re handling this!! It’s such a complicated topic that I haven’t seen many people tackling it with the nuance it deserves, and so far you’re doing really well (And I know I won’t fully finish this video for awhile and wanted to comment now to help this video in the algorithm) Edit: I’m sorry the phrase “gender neutral bar” is so funny because like. That’s just a bar. Imagine saying “gender neutral chair” to make fun of a chair that men and women use. It’s just a chair dude.

I was an overweight kid, but balanced it with muscles from working on our little 5-acre farm. Once our horses passed (and I displaced my hip and right shoulder) I found that going to the gym helped. Not only did the place have specialized machines that could be used without aggravating my joint injuries, but the place itself helped get me into the mindset. Plus, everyone there was very positive and understanding of my weird shifts between exercises. Went right up until I broke my right ankle a week into March of 2020. Plan to get back into it, flubber and all.

I always chuckle when jordan peterson comes up in your intro. He sounds like a toddler 😂

I kinda try to practice body neutrality as someone who got picked on for being fat as young as 8, losing weight now feels like an accomplisment. Though I'm also glad the way my proportions distrubute themselves; I'm short and stocky but I have curves.

okay i have been waiting till the end of this video per instruction and now i can finally comment. this will be long, but i swear savy if youre reading this im not about to yell at you, i would love to continue this conversation. thanks for the video as always.

I'm a chronically ill, straight-size manual wheelchair user. I'm perfectly comfortable with my weight, although I do try to keep my weight in the same ~10 lb (~5 kg) range for practicalities and for my slightly precarious health, and have very few problems doing so. However, according to the numbers, my BMI puts me in the overweight category. (This is all relevant, I promise) I had no issues believing fatphobia was a real thing, but my first major personal experience was when I first became chronically ill. I had an autoimmune disorder that attacked my thyroid, causing a big spike in activity. At its peak, I was producing enough T4 (one of the thyroid hormones) for 4 people. I lost a *shocking* amount of weight, about a fifth of my total body mass in around 4 months - obviously incredibly unhealthy. But I had regular weigh-ins at my endocrinology appointments, and one nurse looked at the 10 lb I had dropped in THREE WEEKS and said "Oh wow you've made such progress, congratulations, you're officially a healthy weight!" Just the immediate assumption that the weight loss was intentional in the middle of the scariest medical period of my life really hit home how real and pervasive medical fatphobia is. I lost a lot of muscle and even some bone mass. I had been a casual cyclist and rock climber for years, so the difference in strength was...startling. In the 4 years since, I have returned to my maintenance weight, which is enough food that I have the physical energy to move myself around, balanced against the demands of physics (I weigh more, it's harder to push, etc etc). The problem with a manual wheelchair, though, is that your joints become unbalanced just by dint of building the muscle needed to self-propel, and over time that'll cause damage. And as much as I want to join a gym in order to start rebalancing my joints to maintain their integrity, a) finding a wheelchair accessible gym with adaptive equipment is challenging, but also b) it's very difficult to predict the attitudes of the people I might end up around. I have to do some exercises differently, or I need specific isolation exercises that seem strange out of context, or I have to protect certain joints, etc, and the gymbros I've come into contact with in other parts of my life tend to not understand any of those points, and I don't want to expose myself to more of that in a more vulnerable environment. Basically, fatphobia is a real, pervasive issue that can affect you when you least expect it, and self-important gymbros who must always be correct about everything fitness are a pain.

I honestly just finished the video and all I can think to say is, slay muscle mommy. Thank you for this think piece

This is seriously one of the most balanced takes I've ever heard. I feel like there is no middle ground when it comes to this topic so it is very appreciated! I feel like in the body/health realm there is so much tension and drama. More level headed people like you talking about it like this will hopefully put out the fire a bit. Then we can all get on with doing what's best for us individually. ❤

I'm gonna be honest, despite hanging out in some pretty far-left spaces for over a decade, these "it's fatphobic to try to lose weight" type arguments are pretty rare even among the left, in my experience. Some of them I had never heard before at all. Unfortunately these extreme, frankly embarrassing takes blow up because they fit the narrative that right-wingers who hate fat women have in mind, and then people get the idea that it's the norm.

Since you brought up EDs: one issue a lot of fat anorexic folks face is not being believed when they ask for help because they are still fat, even If their internal organs are getting damaged by the lack of nutrition. I also think other good points made by the fat positivity movement are those about making acrivities accessibile to fat people too (think about cinema/airplane seats etc.), especially since this often involves fitness: the lack of comfortable activewear that fits, trainers that don't treat you badly or insult you because you're fat, and programs that take into account your body shape, different range of movement, joints' stress etc. are often a big ostacle for fat people who want to do sports safely. No one enjoys being mentally and physically uncomfortable (or worse) when doing something, it is actively discouraging.

I got into fitness because I was told that I’d live longer. I had a talk with my dad after he noticed that I was struggling with a hike and was exhausted from the activity. Then, when I got into dating, I lost weight in order to be seen as attractive. I’ve internalized that message especially from going down Reddit rabbit holes. I was left feeling very insecure about myself and feeling undesirable. Thank you for this video! I’ve started hearing the message about weight loss and body image being connected to systemic issues starting in 2022 when I listened to the audiobooks “The Body is Not an Apology” and “‘You Just Need to Lose Weight:’” And 19 Other Myths About Fat People” in trying to feel better about myself. I was left feeling more insecure listening to challenging, uncomfortable messages. Now, I’m starting to feel better about my body, still a ways to go, and I lift weights for fun, to feel better, and so I can lift my girlfriend ❤

oh sweet! just in time for me to hyperfixate on my cleaning tasks without having to worry about changing videos :D edit: just wanted to add that I've recently been thinking a lot about how to lose weight (safely and effectively), but my reasoning is much more so related to how I feel than how anyone is viewing me. for example, I've noticed that my weight gain over the past year or so has caused different parts of my body to expand (because fat takes up space), such as my upper arms, and I personally have a lot of sensory issues. so for me, I want to change my body, not because I hate it or because I'm afraid to be seen as fat, I feel the need to change it because I am actively uncomfortable existing in my own body, which has nothing to do with how others perceive it. I agree that a lot of people who exist in fat bodies face discrimination, absolutely they (we) do. but that doesn't mean that I (or anyone else) should be then shamed if we want to change the bodies in which we exist. it is not inherently fatphobic for someone to want to become stronger or lose weight. if the motivation is not coming from a place of distain or hate for fat bodies, then I don't think you could (or should) consider it fatphobic. tldr; don't judge people based on the vessels they occupy, just try to exist in a way that makes you happy and let others do the same.

I haven't run like I did to this video since the Make American Girl Great Again video... lol. I have struggled with this topic and health, in general, a ton as a queer leftist. Excited to hear your thoughts

I know why people play faster clips, but I usually can't understand them unless it's a voice I'm really familiar with. You should add closed captioning when playing faster clips.

Im from asia and ive had experience w eds, i cannot stand when people act like health aka appearance is a way to pass moral judgement. In asia its literally so bad that u will be praised for ur strength and will if u starve urself to be slimmer because slimmer equals more attractive thus even if ure not healthy ure still "healthy" cuz ure attractive and the beauty standard. I also cannot stand horrible diet culture bs around food and bodies because it can lead to a circlejerk of people with horrible habits enabling each other. Body neutrality and focusing on my abilities helped me so much, same as reading more theory, ive learn abt the reasons and effects of beauty standards, and ive learnt to demoralise health and appearance. Also i focus on performance rather than appearance which helps so much since im more concerned on how i am performing than how i look. When it comes to fitness.

I'm from Europe, and for me the biggest turnoff from sports and workout is experience with teamsports as a teen. It's like one of those toxic online chats, except people actually can punch you for not scoring a point.

Omg you having Megan Anne is so hype!! It’s the Timmy Turner /Jimmy Neutron crossover episode of this decade lol

I need you to know how helpful it was for you to break down the issues with BMI, especially showing us the different ways it fails for you specifically. I don't know what happened, but for the first time about a week ago I started to feel insecure about my body. So I foolishly went to a BMI calculator and it only worried me more. I've been trying to eat overall healthier, and I know I need to figure out my own fitness (I generally lead a pretty sedentary life and wave to change that) but it did not help to be told that I weigh too much

Samateverysize has some videos going over fearing the black body that i found very interesting

Another BMI consideration: torso and leg length are important, too. As a person who has the torso length of someone who is 5’4” and the leg length of someone who is 4’7”, I will most likely never be in the “normal“ category because torsos tend to be heavier than legs. It certainly doesn’t help that I have a similar bra size to Savy pre-surgery.

When it comes to BMI, if you don’t fall under the normal weight range there are size measurements required to help determine if the numbers are more or less accurate. My entire Army career I was overweight by at least 20lbs. The measurements more or less come close to other electronic devices that tell you something similar. Those measurements should normally be done in the morning or after a workout. Still not the best method but size measurements can be useful.

1:54:00 I re-watched the Devil wears Prada, and the fact that they were saying Anne Hathaway was fat that entire movie blew my mind no wonder I used to think being a size 6 meant I was fat

I think purity culture is honestly the crux of fat shaming. It's not even just that an individual person doesn't find you attractive, it's that you are a BAD PERSON and therefore worthy of shame, humiliation, condemnation, and dismissal. I am fortunate to have thick enough skin that I've mostly managed to brush of the social ills of being overweight, but the one area I cannot shake it off is healthcare. And that is dangerous. I was having seizures for about 3 years, gradually getting worse, and begging (in tears, literally on my knees at one point) for some doctor, ANY doctor to take me seriously. And wow, you just cannot imagine the apathy I encountered. You'd think having multiple daily seizures would prompt for something a bit more than "you just need to lose weight" but no. In one doctor's case it was even "if you lost weight and did your duty as woman and had kids, you'd be cured of everything." My attempts to report that doctor to the medical board went ignored. It also took every ounce of willpower I possessed not to deck him, but that's another matter. Anyway, this condition hit a point where I was so convinced I was going to die, couldn't drive, couldn't function like a normal adult in her 30s, had no appetite etc...I put all my affairs in order on paper, let's put it that way. But I would just sit there on the couch zoning out, seizing every once in a while, and drinking a couple Soylents a day to keep the bod going. I lost 40 pounds in ONE MONTH. And you wanna know what I got from my doctor at the time??....Go on, I'll give you a sec. CONGRATULATIONS! I cannot begin to describe to you how much I wanted to scream and cry and throw things around the office. I am dying, sir, do not congratulate me on what is clearly an unhealthy amount of weight to lose in such a short time for ANYONE. As it turns out, I finally managed to stumble (cheat maybe) my way into the right doctor's hands, and finally got diagnosed with Klein-Levin syndrome, which had gone untreated so long it was literally melting the connective tissue of my brain and causing seizures! Yay!

54:12 A note on the "women's" barbell, it is the standard size/weight of the barbell for the women's category in Olympic Weightlifting. The women's barbell in theory is more adapted to the average size of a woman, with a smaller diameter for easier grip since women tend to have smaller hands, and shorter for better balance, and thus as a result weights 15kg instead of 20kgs. My hands are so tiny that I struggle to use the "men's" barbell for the snatch and clean and jerk. In theory, a man with small hands and shorter height could use the women's barbell for better comfort and women with bigger hands and taller could use the men's barbell. It is a simplified way to name the bars. For olympic weightlifting is best to use the appropiate bar to your size but for powerlifting (maybe with the exception of the deadlift) or body building it doesn't really matter which one you use.

When i was between 18-22, i went for a reading of bloodwork results. The doctor looked me in the eye and asked "are you trying to kill yourself?", because of my weight, cholesterol levels, and triglyceride levels. I have not been to the doctor for a physical since.

I had a crazy experience a few years back with being judged for being fit. I was running RPGs at a convention and had three women at one of my games. All 3 were morbidly obese, but that's a pretty common thing to see in gaming circles, so no big deal. As the game continued, all 3 became aggressive and combative with me at the table. After the game, I approached them and asked if I had done anything to upset them. They said I was fat shaming them by being fit. Then they walked off like they had a mike drop moment. If any of them had just talked with me, they would have learned that Im fit because working out is the only thing that keeps my depression at bay. To this day I kind of feel bad for them. To be so frustrated with your own body that somebody in decent shape could set you off has to be a hard way to exist. Fourtanetly, that was my only experience like that, and to this day i game with people of all levels of fitness with no problems.

Savvy, you were one of my inspirations for becoming an enbie muscle mommy. I’ve been weight training since the fall and it’s amazing. I’ve gotten stronger, lost 10lbs, and reduced my chronic pain. And realizing that I can control my physical health and weight has been SO liberating compared to feeling like I’d never stop gaining weight.

This is genuinely one of the most interesting videos I've watched on RU-vid. The amount of work you put into this is so impressive. Thank you for doing this. Fantastic content that's given me a lot to think about.

As someone who also fell in love with lifting weights recently, I really appreciate you covering this topic!

I'm currently seeing a nutritionist to try and lose weight, and yet I notice that the content that is best for my mental health is fat acceptance content. I particularly recommend the podcast called Maintenance Phase. This content keeps me from falling into the deep self hatred that is always linked with weight loss for me.

I'm excited to hear you explore this, because people get kind of wacky in both directions and then project onto people in the middle.

Lol I had a friend in grad school named Adam Smith. He would always roll his eyes and said “I know”. He and his husband were adorable ❤

Thank you so much for including me in this! These are all such a nuanced and important topics.

Thank you for the nuanced discussion here, it really helped me straighten out some thoughts that have swirled around in my head for years. As someone who used to be heavier and was not physically active, and then lost a significant amount of weight that I've largely kept off with balanced diet and exercise, I felt a ton of guilt for a long time for feeling better about my body at my current weight, because it felt like that feeling was somehow an inherent insult to fatter people. But even though I felt that way about my own body, I would never tell someone else to lose weight if they didn't want to. It really all comes down to bodily autonomy and doing what's right for you as an individual, without that action being a moral judgment on others who choose differently. So thanks again for helping me process all that!

I remember back in high school my gym teacher would take students BMI and use a skin fold caliper to measure our fat. At the time, I was 5'3" and 150 pounds which put me in the overweight range for my BMI however when the skin fold test was done I have a 50mm which put me in the excellent shape range for a skin fold test. The BMI test never accounted for the fact that I have a curved spin that caused me to slouch down about an inch or 2 or that I have muscular thighs. Now I'm still 5'3" & yes I currently want to lose like 10-15 pounds to relieve some stress on my arthritic joints I've had people tell me that if I just lost weight I could magically cure my disabilities that I was literally born with despite that some exercise I can't do because of my disabilities, I still have very muscular thighs, and genetically most of the woman in my family are short & pear shaped. This is why I agree with an individual approach instead of just looking at someone's physical appearance & using that to determine their health

Just wanted to thank you for this video. I think the nuances of fitness and fat activism are really important, and I relate a lot to what you shared about body autonomy. I actually also grew up with scoliosis and had a back brace for a lot of my early teenage years. I hadn't really considered how it might be related to the feelings I have now about my body, but a lot of what you shared about bodily autonomy really resonates with me. Health is such a personal thing, and really nobody else's business besides you and your medical providers. Personally when I gain weight it really negatively impacts my soreness and overall mobility, probably because of my scoliosis and the impact weight can have on my joints. For that reason sometimes my goals are weight loss, and honestly it's not out of fatphobia-- it's for my own personal health. Fatphobia absolutely exists and it's important we try and tackle that as a culture, but saying intentional weight loss is inherently "fatphobic," is silly. It can be sometimes, but each person's relationship with their body is impacted by so many personal and cultural factors, I don't think we can make sweeping generalizations like that. I think as a culture we can try and dismantle diet culture without yeeting weight loss as a valid goal for some people.

My PE teacher (white male, basically pure muscle) was borderline obese according to his BMI.

I remember when an article pointed out the connection and right-wingers were just like "You think going to the gym makes me a Nazi?????????"

Your thumbnail scared me, I thought J***s S**merton was back

I think one thing you missed in this is how fatness intersects with gender presentation, a lot of the time fat people, especially fat women have to really lean in hard to older/stock forms of gender expression to be seen as people, growing up the only positive depictions of fat women I saw were women in 50s style clothes, and while that's is fine and good individually, when it is the only option and a very expensive and time consuming one to get right it's deeply frustrating. I can't speak to the masc version of this but I think there's something to be said about how they get thrown into lumberjack imagery when they get positive depictions in media.the shame that goes into not forfilling this even more restrictive set of gendered standards is insidious, especially in a time when shaming random people on the street is only unfortunately on the rise. idk just something to think on I guess

i’m a 56 year old female leftist that was been into fitness and athletics my entire life, but after my second daughter was born in 2006, i started lifting properly (heavy) Back then social media was just starting; internet message boards were still all the rage. I connected on THE biggest fitness site around, and yes, the overall vibe there was very “alpha-male” right wing and toxic. There was (is?) an over 35 miscellaneous forum where users would chat about anything NOT fitness related, often politics, social issues, current events. The very few liberal or left-leaning males that posted there were labeled as “betas” Either that, or they were misinformed or flat-out dumb. And don’t even get me started on how threatened they felt about women gaining muscle and strength, who also happened to have differing opinions on political and social issues.

I lost weight for one main reason: my thighs In summer, especially when wearing dresses, skirts or shorts my thighs would rub against each other and cause me pain, I got rushes and when it was particularly hot my skin even came off I don't really care what my body looks like, but it was very uncomfortable Not every weight loss is for aesthetics or due to fatphobia, and it's sad so many people think so BMI is extremely inaccurate too, and I fully agree we shouldn't use it By BMI I am overweight but you couldn't tell looking at me I have a hourglass figure, my waist is in the average and my stomach is relatively flat but my hips and chest is bigger, so my weight is higher

This is a great video that explores these issues with a very empathetic lens!!! The stuff about the 2000s having an obsession with being is unfortunately so true! When I was in middle school from 2013-2016, I remember all I would do is compare myself to other girls in my school down to every minuscule detail. I was also going through a lot of struggles with the grief of losing my grandma to cancer, and I would constantly binge eat which led to me gaining weight and my family constantly commenting on my weight gain. I was also quite lonely so my form of escapism was watching Disney shows, but I would also constantly compare myself to how skinny the characters were. I hated that I had a belly at all, which is still an insecurity of mine. About a year ago, I saw some random girl with a flat stomach and I went back home and started crying. I’m also in university rn and am AuDHD with a myriad of mental health issues, and just my schoolwork alone burns me out, so it’s hard to exercise. I’m trying to make small changes in my diet like reducing my intake of fatty and sugary foods, and also adding spinach and protein to the meals I regularly eat. I also bought dumbbells and am gonna just start with lifting those while I watch RU-vid videos or shows, and hopefully do some progress from there. None of this is a linear process and I hate gym bros that are say “just lose weight or you’re lazy”. That mindset just makes people miserable.

Glad you did an episode on this- there's a whole podcast dedicated to this called Conspirituality!

Really love the interviews so much you put together a nice little panel

TW: Discussion of ED down below. When I was 17, I got a breast reduction. It was LIFE CHANGING. Before my surgery, my breasts were a huge source of insecurity. It'll be 10 years since I had my surgery, and I haven't thought about my breasts in that entire time. For me, a surgical change was the right move. I also have insulin resistant PCOS. My body has never been mine. It does what it wants and even on proper medication, I could never just live my life the way I saw my friends and family living their lives. The only time I ever lost a significant amount of weight was in the deepest throws of my ED. I don't want to pass out details so I'll just say that it became very clear to me that the only way I could maintain a different body was unsustainable. In treatment, it was hammered into us that our bodies will do good things naturally and weight gain isn't caused just by eating. This is true for a lot of people, but it wasn't true for me. Still, they told me on intake that they were very experienced handling patients with PCOS, so I believed them. They threatened me with early discharge if I didn't discontinue some of my medications (VERY unsafely, my endocrinologist was horrified). But they said they had experience, so I listened. Without changing my meal plan or doing anything different, my body changed drastically in a few weeks. I didn't fit into my wedding dress and it was unbearably traumatic, so I discharged myself. A note: I don't want to discourage anyone who needs treatment from getting it. My treatment program helped in a lot of ways, but ultimately, they weren't equipped to handle every case at the personalized level. I encourage anyone working in ED treatment to learn about conditions that cause weight changes so future patients are given better care. Three weeks ago, I was prescribed Zepbound. I haven't seen body changes yet, but my quality of life has improved 30-fold. I used to get so hungry that I'd cry even when I'd eaten just a few hours before. That hasn't happened in almost a month. Food doesn't take up all my mental space, and a vast majority of my ED symptoms just vanished overnight. I'm no longer terrified that if I eat something bad will happen because I know I'm hungry at the right times and the level of hunger is tolerable. All this to say: Our bodies aren't always cooperative for a variety of reasons. I'm very lucky I have an excellent endocrinologist who understood how poor my quality of life was. I am, however, acutely aware that people believe weight loss medications are "cheating". There are a million misconceptions about how/why people are prescribed these medications. But it's a lot deeper than looks. I won't say I don't want to look different-I do-but it's not my every waking thought. I cannot describe how much of a relief that is. My journey in healing my mental health and relationship with my body is my own. I hope everyone, no matter their size or personal struggles, finds their way to body neutrality however that journey may look.

I’m 5’2 so my bmi is eternally fucked. I’m a little chubby by social standards but the bmi tells me I’m obese

I've been really enjoying the videos that you've been putting out lately. Listening to this one from the gym. I've been having a lot more fun at the gym now that I've changed focus to muscle growth instead of worrying about the scale. I didn't realize how much I was still dealing with my past eating disorder until I stopped weighing myself entirely and started focusing on what I like (lifting heavy things and moving my body in ways that feel useful).

Throwing this out there for the bra-wearing gym folks: panache sports bras are really great if you want non wired support at higher cup sizes. The bandwidth is pretty inclusive too so you can get as low as 28 on the band and pretty high up there on the other end of sizing 🎉

I think the obsession with 'fitness' on the right has more to do with aesthetics than actual health. A lot of these influencers are known smoke, drink and obviously take some kinds of, um, 'herbal supplements'.

I find a lot of workouts sooooooo boring, that’s part of the reason I super struggle with it.

I started watching dietitian videos from Abby sharp & few others. That really force on having/ learning good eating habits. Not to focus on unhealthy extreme weight loss in short term but how to maintain healthy Weight via improving eating, exercising. There are too many fitness influencers that have boarder-line/straight u eating disorder plans.

Wow, this was a fantastic deep dive. Thank you so much for all your hard work on this!

The ligher bars (there are a number of different weights bars can come in) are often called Technique bars, especially in the Olympic Lifting circles... in re-hab they are sometimes called Re-Hab bars because people often need to start lighter to rehab injuries. Of course if you worked with kids and adults you might call the lightest bar the kids bar... knowing that often adults need that bar to. Often you'd just specifiy... get the 15lbs bar, or the 45lbs bar.

Awe man! I am left leaning on many issues, and I workout 3 to 4 days per week but don't understand why can't gain muscle mass. It make complete sense after watching this video.

Oh wow, I never heard of gendered barbells. At the climbing gym 35lbs = Bench Bar and 45lbs = Squat Rack Bar. Cuz ya know, you can lift a greater percentage with your back than chest? All this time ... I agendered the bar bells 🤔

This video's guest lineup is making me miss Your Morning Guru. Interesting stuff so far. I'll do as Savy asks and wait till the end to make a comment/question.

I got harassed by my parents all of one summer for gaining weight. When i went to the doctors, all I had was a random vitamin deficiency😐

As soon as savvy started talking about schemes in fitness then I got an ad for supplements….

When I was desperate for post partum help, my doctor told me I would feel better if I lost weight. Im 5'10 and I was 170 lbs. I want even that big. I was in a size 10.

This is an amazing video, you should be proud of this work. Thank you for your efforts.

When I started really getting into boxing, which led to me lifting weights and adding an extra meal to help fuel my workouts (recommended by my personal trainer) I went from "underweight" to "overweight" according to my bmi. "Overweight" but no longer anemic, the strongest I've ever been, the most energy ive ever had, and my old rotator cuff injury stopped bothering me. So I'll take it 😂 When I had stomach ulcers and could barely eat I had a coworker (who I suspect of having some issues around body image) keep complimenting me and telling me I looked so skinny, like a model. I told her I would strangle her right then and there to have a veggie burger, fries and a milkshake.

Your intro is so iconic... I quote it every time like it's a pop song. Today I did a little dance. It's great.

That book Fit Nation sounds interesting af. I love learning about the little ways a culture can be so pervasive.

Thank you for highlighting that Todd made a companion video ❤ Also as someone who has struggled with weight since I've been a teenager, I've had to take a step back from the whole trying to lose weight situation as I became obsessed in 2015/16. It was really unhealthy and I lost so much weight in such a short time. This was based on me going to Slimming World, and having to keep up with losing each week. But when my personal circumstances changed it made me so upset that I was putting weight on. Now I'm just happy to have a healthy dinner, and just live my life ❤ Edit- thank you for covering BMI, I've known for ages is was BS. Mine not being in a certain range kept me from meeting my weight goal at Slimming World, and I felt I couldn't lose anymore. I was so upset about this and me and my partner looked it up on the NHS website and started playing with fictional characters weights and heights. Fun fact Captain America is morbidly obese 😂😂

Great video and agree with your points. That London study is super sus, particularly as London is the only place in England with a higher minimum wage to deal with the increased cost of living there, combined with the massive financial center there and general wealth inequality that is going to massively skew the numbers both in regards to overall accessibility and the kind of jobs that would allow that access to gym spaces. On another note as a gymbod who's goal is to be the comradely neighbourhood himbo does anyone know of any good leftist and/or queer fitness spaces online?

I was a gymnast when I was a kid and was almost not allowed to compete once because they thought I was too underweight. I was 8 and weighed about 35 pounds; I was also the size of an average 5 year old. I was just a tiny kid. As an adult things are a bit weirder. I'm 4'10", but my healthy weight is about 140. I already packed in muscle, but even more since I've been on T (yay, transition!). But according to BMI, that hovers me between overweight and obese. No. I'm just really short.

Those bird and clock takes around 17 minutes are insane. I'll gladly take the label of fatphobic if it means I now don't have pain issues in my feet and back, can climb the mountains I want to climb, just literally feel and walk better in my body, and have significantly reduced asthma symptoms after losing about 50lbs since my heaviest. I'm happier now in my body and I guess I'm a bigot for that. These people need to get their heads out of the bird and clock apps for like 10 seconds, the internet brainrot is real.