Hall effect cam/crank sensor operation and testing Part 1 (an SD Premium video)

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This lecture was recorded with my class at Rosedale Technical College and is part of my chapter 21 "Ignition System Inputs"
The material we cover can be applied to all hall effect type cam and crank sensors as well as vehicle speed sensors.
Performance Diagnostics chapter 21 page 20
Topics covers
- description and operation of a hall effect sensor
- difference between a magnetic type pick-up and a hall effect signal
- how to determine the type of crank or cam sensor by the number of wires connected to it
- pull-up and pull-down circuitry
- internal design of a hall effect
- why it is important to know which design the manufacturer is using when troubleshooting hall effect circuits
- dual and single hall effect circuits
- why some systems need a cam and crank signal for spark control and others only need the crank
Playlist
- (Chapter 21) Ignition inputs, cam and crank sensors
• (Chapter 21) Ignition ...
Related videos
- Hall effect cam/crank sensor operation and testing Part 2 (an SD Premium video)
• Hall effect cam/crank ...
- How to test a crank sensor on a GM 3800 engine (3x and 18x signals)
• How to test a crank se...
- How to test a crank sensor with a voltmeter (All Chrysler models)
• How to test a crank se...
- How to test a crank sensor (Chrysler Dodge Jeep)
• How to test a crank se...
- How to test a cam sensor with a voltmeter (All Chrysler models)
• How to test a cam sens...
For more information on this topic, I have written a “field manual” called Engine Performance Diagnostics which is available at www.scannerdanner.com as an eBook or paper book.
Want even more diagnostic training? Whether you are a DIY trying to fix your own car, someone looking to become an auto technician, or a current auto technician that wants to get more into diagnostics, subscribe to ScannerDanner Premium www.scannerdanner.com/join-sc... There is a 14 day free trial.
On ScannerDanner Premium I will bring you right into my classroom at Rosedale Technical College. You will find page for page lectures taken right from my book as well as exclusive classroom type case studies. What is so special about these classroom case studies? I pull live problem vehicles directly into my classroom and we troubleshoot them in real time, using and applying the theory and testing procedures we learn during the classroom lectures. There is no better on-line training of how to troubleshoot automotive electrical and electronics systems anywhere!
Disclaimer:
Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. ScannerDanner LLC assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. ScannerDanner LLC recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of ScannerDanner LLC, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not ScannerDanner LLC.

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2 авг 2012

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Комментарии : 73

@warcraftarenas8770 7 лет назад

A great video as always, FYI if you want a no BS, straight forward, all you will ever need to know knowledge base in 1 place, BUY HIS BOOK. I have over 10 textbooks and 15 other automotive literature and let me be the first o say he SKIPS through all the BS! Tells you what you need to know and how to diagnose it, quick & simple but enough in-depth to tell you everything about a certain system, without going into all the useless facts you don't need to know

@ScannerDanner 7 лет назад

Thank you so much!

@Viper81766 6 лет назад

Amen to that my friend : )

@Amopower 12 лет назад

Looking forward as well...the e-book was well worth the money for what you get, and you get alot. I hope you will continue posting your "normal" videos as well, where you show real live situations, bounce back to a little theory then back to the car. Other guys get hooked on putting a video out there for the sake of the hits they get, and so they resort to posting the most basic repairs. I think I speak for most of us - we don't want to see you troubleshooting a burnt out lightbulb one day! lol

@trekvana 12 лет назад

Absolutely. Thats what I meant. Protecting the power side of the sensor. Thanks man! I just wanna say how awesome your videos are. Its like taking e-courses. I love how you go into the theoretical circuit design before you go over to the car. Perfect balance between theory and application. Keep it up man. This is great. We are all so lucky to have an awesome instructor as yourself! Looking forward to picking up your lecture videos.

@SS-U23 5 лет назад

Thank you for the great explanation that I really needed for a long time. God bless

@JeffreyMillswa6cej 2 года назад

When you said no current flow no voltage drop, that tells me you know your stuff ! The resistor (load) is a current limiting device. TNX

@ScannerDanner 12 лет назад

On a 5 volt pull up design circuit (GM ICM to PCM distributor reference circuit) i will still use a test light connected to 12v for the bypass test. I've done this test 100s of times with no PCM damage. it is a high impedance voltage sensing circuit that supports no current flow.

@ryan8488 12 лет назад

Great extension to the e-book. Look forward to watching the whole series.

@nickayivor8432 2 года назад

KNOWLEDGEABLE Sir ScannerDanner 🙏 amazing tutorial thank you very much . Sir ScannerDanner From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧

@ScannerDanner 2 года назад

Thank you Nick!

@ScannerDanner 12 лет назад

great point on the basic stuff and i was even thinking of doing more of it, but your point is well received my friend. it is actually nice to hear that you are on board with the more technical stuff. as for the video uploads, no changes there. i will continue my case studies to support the testing procedures i am teaching. the lecture series will NOT interfere with that at all. thanks so much for your comment. i really appreciate your input on the subject.

@ScannerDanner 12 лет назад

thank you very much, and I will keep you posted

@paulpaquette1961 7 лет назад

This helped me tremendously, very awesome explanation. Thanks too much!

@ScannerDanner 7 лет назад

Thank you so much! Check out ScannerDanner Premium for more lecture videos like this one.

@ScannerDanner 12 лет назад

All of the 5 volt signal circuits that i have seen on hall effects are pull down design. so the bypass test involves grounding the signal circuit. you will NOT hurt the circuit by using a test light to ground it. you can even use a jumper wire. i use a light as a safety measure in case i accidentily jump the wrong pin.

@johnnymalicoat754 4 года назад

What happens if you ground a pull up circuit? Will you damage the pcm?

@ScannerDanner 4 года назад

@@johnnymalicoat754 first thing is knowing what signal voltage is before ever doing a bypass test, on a disconnected pull-up sensor signal circuit the voltage will be 0, grounding it, just keeps is at 0, no damage done, no concerns, just a useless test, make sense?

@Giorobot 3 года назад

Thanxs Paul you're an excellent teacher I only had another estrict, but great teacher like you who wasn't there just to a paycheck but it was for math back in 96 I was in 6th grade to who am in debt for lots of things that now am able to do believe it or not you helping to keep this great nation at its best... I bought your book in Amazon last week after waiting a month out of stuck wise but I got a 1985 to 1990 Infiniti nissan instead also the book looks like it's being left to the rain and sun light i

@ScannerDanner 12 лет назад

that's really cool that you made that comment here. the video lectures will be out soon. i ran into a few roadblocks but im working on it every day. ill keep you posted for sure.

@SteveRobReviews 12 лет назад

Fantastic,Im stoked !!

@felplayvina 12 лет назад

Every info from you will be my pleasure to have it, I will waiting for it...

@kiddbrother3 5 лет назад

another great video! thank you again, Paul! years ago Chrysler made Plymouth horizon & used a hall effect ignition & window was made ferrous metal & after 5,000miles it wore out the bushing in the distributor lol!!

@fivefortyeye540i 12 лет назад

Simply brilliant idea;)

@ScannerDanner 12 лет назад

Great question, re-watch the video at the 12:08 mark. What I am saying is that the voltage sensing circuit does not support current flow so even though the transistor is "on" there is STILL no voltage drop across the internal resistor because there is STILL no current flow. The only reason the resistor is there is for protection from a short to ground on the signal wire. Hope that makes sense. Let me know

@ScannerDanner 12 лет назад

@spelunkerd no worries my friend. i won't be taking these down and i will continue to film and upload case studies to help support my eBook and lecture series

@ScannerDanner 12 лет назад

Correct. but remember the signal circuit in the PCM is already protected by its super high resistance (mega ohm range). What would be protected is the hall effect sensor and the supply side or hall effect feed circuit. If this feed comes from the PCM, it would be that circuit (not the signal circuit) that needs protected.

@AngelRealtyFla 3 года назад

Scanner Danner! Great Video! I have been out of automotive for 25 years and this was Great and easy to follow and understand.. Thank you! And a question if you may know? I have a 99 Ranger 4x4 with a 3.0, 5 speed that I have no acceleration to speak of.. Runs smooth, I Just replaced Cracked Heads this year. and timing chain and gears a year ago, Had No Blow by, No air leaking from any valves, No Cylinder wear visible.. Had a cam sensor code when 1st started. So I set sensor 15deg of center line as instructed which got rid of code. Drove 1,500 miles 70-75mph to Texas getting 20mpg but very slow accelerating with foot to floor in 4th or 5th gears. No Codes, No overheating? Checked cable and fixed Stretch. I am at a lose? could synchronizer being off 180 possibly do that?

@ScannerDanner 12 лет назад

Hoping for a few weeks, could be as long as a month maybe two. I ran into a few roadblocks. I will definitely keep everyone posted when I get close. Thank you so much!

@ScannerDanner 12 лет назад

It is the 4424. as a trainer i definately need the extra two channels but i think you could get by with the two channel. there are times i use more than 2. say i have a coil firing issue (not knowing the cause) and i want to watch cam crank and coil current at the same time. either way the job could be done with just two channels. you simply cannot go wrong with a pico.

@jimflynn238 5 лет назад

I'M trying to install a 3 wire to my vw tdi 07. i like to identify the 3 wires. between yellow + black residence is 44.8 and next ,. black and red .92 i like to identify emc so not to mess with $87. is this a enough information, thanks

@mbs5328 7 лет назад

How do I check the ground on a two wire hall effect sensor?

@ryan8488 12 лет назад

Be worth every cent

@nickayivor8432 2 года назад

🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟 Tutorial Great 👍 👌 👏 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟 Thank you 👍 KNOWLEDGEABLE Sir ScannerDanner From Nick Ayivor from London England UK 🇬🇧

@Amopower 12 лет назад

Hmm thanks for the advice. Looks like the 4 channel is double the cost, but if I will not be happy with just the two channel scope, maybe I will rethink this. Can you share what made you go to the 4 scope?

@santacruzautomotivediagnos6094 5 лет назад

do you have any info the nissan cube

@Amopower 12 лет назад

I meant to ask you in another video - what model Picoscope do you use? I think that might be a good alternative to the Verus for the DIYer...I already have the code reading capability with other tools.

@pithmen 6 лет назад

Hi great videos am currently struggling with getting my Hall effect cam sensor on a mega squirt ecu and I have 12v going to the cam sensor ground is going straight to the block and signal going to the ecu I have a 1k resistor going between the 12v and signal wire. When I crank the motor over I don’t get any wave pattern. does the ecu need to know when it the cam sensor is grounded? like using a sensor ground going to the ecu? Just been so stumped on this part

@ScannerDanner 6 лет назад

So the 1k resistor is creating a voltage signal that the sensor will pull low (transistor in the hall effect) as the trigger wheel "excites" it. The ECU will see this high/low signal (which I would call a modified pull-up design) as cam position. If your signal is staying high, I would pull that sensor and move it past a metal object to see if you can pull that signal low.

@jahrain1693 5 лет назад

Mr Paul I have run into problem and I want u to clarify something for me.am working on a 2013 e class benz and the problem is the bake light stay lite all the time.i went to the remove the brake switch and I realised the brake switch was a four wire brake switch.i try to gather information from the Internet about the switch and to my surprise and my first time of hearing that the brake switch is hall effect sensor.i know for a fact that hall effect are mostly use on rotary or revolutionary sensors like the speed,cam and crank sensor,abs and many more but never knew it can be applied on brake switch sensor.i know with the four wire Hall effect sensor we have to 2 signal power and ground.Mr Paul in your book you made mention on by passing the 3 wire sensor if it is a pull up or pul down but u didn't talk on how to by pass by the 4 wire with the 2 signal.my first question?i want to know theory behind the brake switch since the brake pedal is not a rotary type but only move up and down....Secondly how do we bypass the two signal wiring...Thank you

@trekvana 12 лет назад

paul, on the pull up design why dont we have votage drop when the transistor turn on. shouldnt the voltage drop to zero because of that resistor? if so, why is the computer still reading 12v

@trekvana 12 лет назад

Ah i see! Since the transistor is not grounding the power feed when it turns it on, there is no current flow hence no voltage drop. The resistor is there only just in case the signal wire get grounded, hence protecting the pcm from receiving alot of unwanted current flow and frying something. Do i got that right?

@spelunkerd 12 лет назад

I'm still trying to work my way through the videos already posted on your channel. I hope you don't take those down....

@juergenscholl2843 12 лет назад

how safe is it to bypass test a 5 volt signal circuit with battery voltage? thanx for answering.

@Amopower 12 лет назад

That's good - I was thinking you had a 4000 series. For me I'd probably go with the 2 channel, 4224. (unless you have some compelling examples of where you needed to see more than 2 channels at once). You probably have the 4424.

@GRUPEROMORTAL 3 года назад

just one question sr, is this class and the graphics in your book? Im very interested in buying your book, Im just thinking which way to go. paper or ebook.

@ScannerDanner 3 года назад

Yes it is! Thank you

@josuemaldonado3415 6 лет назад

Are all 3 wire cam/crank sensors hall effects? Are Toyota, Nissan, Honda hall effect sensors and will you test them the same?

@ScannerDanner 6 лет назад

Unless it is actually a 2 wire VRS with the third wire being a shield. (I've seen that on Euro cars)

@johnmckamy6398 8 лет назад

so if you unplug the sensor and you still have 5 to 12 v on the signal wire , it would be a pull down design ?

@GarrettFellers 6 лет назад

No, he has it backwards. The terms could be different in automotive, but in electronics, a circuit which relaxes to a low (ground, 0V) state is called pulled-down and a circuit which relaxes to a high (positive voltage) state is called pulled-up.

@MakerTools 3 года назад

@@GarrettFellers by "relaxes", you mean in the "off" position? Relaxed being off vs. energized?

@ScannerDanner 12 лет назад

price isn't set yet but i will let everyone know when it is

@dylandream2248 4 года назад

Trying to help friend with 92 Dodge B350, cranking has fuel but no spark. Anyway you can help SD?

@ScannerDanner 4 года назад

Post this to my forum. Some questions require research on my part, which I cannot offer here. My forum is free to join. www.scannerdanner.com/forum.html We have over 17K members world-wide and we also have paid moderators who are there to help me help you guys! You will not find a more helpful and friendly forum anywhere. Thank you for understanding! Hope to see you on the forum.

@pip470 8 лет назад

Hi scanner. have you ever seen a 3 wire hall effect with no supply voltage give a ac sine wave on the signal wire? This is a Uk spec audi s4, 1994. it has a hall effect rpm sensor that reads the teeth on the starter ring gear and shares the supply that is missing of the crank sensor and they both give ac sine waves. the car starts but is a intermittant stop. Its all interesting. I hope you see this. thank you for all your videos on both channels. i look forward to hearing your experiance with this.

@ScannerDanner 8 лет назад

+pip470 If it is an AC sign wave on a three wire sensor, then it is not a hall effect. It is a VR sensor with the third wire being used as a shield.

@pip470 8 лет назад

ScannerDanner wow how easy is it to chase after something that is not a fault. Because the cam sensor is a hall effect and I have power, ground and a square wave signal. I asumed it was the same. Even drawn on the wiring diagram I couldn't tell . Thank you for your response. I will carry on looking. One thing from your lessons that sticks in my mind though is that if a vrs generates it's own voltage to produce it's signal, why would the share one of thier wires. You have shared grounds which is the shield as you said. Seperate signal wires going to different pins on the ecu and a shared wire coming from 1 pin on the ecu. I'm going back to watch the vrs lessons now. Thank you paul.

@Smarterthanyou-mthrfkr 6 лет назад

When u cleaned air filter, changed fuel filter or spark plugs and your car ran great again, Those were the days my friend.

@ncannon7425 Год назад

So can the signal wire be 5V with a 12V power supply?

@ScannerDanner Год назад

typically when you see a 12v power feed on a hall effect, the signal circuit is usually a 12v pull-up design, but I'm sure you can also still have a version out there where they use a 5v pull-down on the signal circuit, with a 12v supply

@ncannon7425 Год назад

@@ScannerDanner okay gotcha, got a 2010 Mazda 3 with a 2.0 having a helluva time tracing a p0720 guessing the TCM is fried cause everything checks out with wiring

@santacruzautomotivediagnos6094 5 лет назад

Could I safely say, If I take my Circuit Tester and place it on Battery Negative and I then touch the signal wire of the HALL EFFECT SENSOR and I get a reaction on the circuit this would represent a PULL DOWN DESIGN HALL EFFECT SENSOR. And if I were to place my Circuit Tester on Battery Positive and I then touch the signal wire of the HALL EFFECT SENIOR and I get a reaction on the circuit this would represent a PULL UP DESIGN HALL EFFECT SENSOR .

@ScannerDanner 5 лет назад

What kind of circuit tester? An LED type test light will not work. And depending on the position of the reluctor or drive plate when the engine shuts off, this can pull the signal low causing misidentification of the circuit. This is why this test is done unplugged. Then finally, you won't get a reaction without having both cam AND crank signals at the same time on some system.

@sabertooth241 12 лет назад

i sure that if you put 12v into a 5v circuit your likely to pop something. it's best to replicate the 5v signal.

@ScannerDanner 12 лет назад

@jay7264 lol

@zvonimirbobicex-4962 8 лет назад

pull-up design...ah, earlier in your book you draw it such that the signal wire goes beyond the voltage sensing circuit(in the pcm) and then to ground...here s different...explain!...bcus, if it is not grounded, then there is no current flow taking place there...(just volts, no amps)...

@ScannerDanner 8 лет назад

It's just a sensing circuit. There is no measurable amperage. The internal ground in this application just keeps the signal square when the switch opens up. With no ground, voltage would ramp off instead of being immediately 0v. Sometimes I draw it, sometimes I don't because it's not important in anyway for troubleshooting the circuit. Male sense?

@zvonimirbobicex-4962 8 лет назад

ok...understood...one more thing...why is it that you never mentioned(at least for an easier understanding) the fact that pull-up and pull-down are actually a power side switched and ground side switched, respectively?

@ScannerDanner 8 лет назад

Because I apply those terms to output controls which are absolutely not the same and I do not want my students getting confused about what they are working with.

@ryanramlochan1504 3 года назад

You ever thought of opening up a Hall effect crank sensor so we can see inside while u explain pull up and pull down and like actually seeing what you talking about.... Something like that anyone would automatically understand right away what you talking about

@ScannerDanner 12 лет назад

I use the automotive 4channel (4000 series). go to picoauto d o t c o m for more info. on it and let them know i sent you.