Hey, do you think they should bring back the flood in Halo infinite? Honestly, I'd love it if they came back. Halo 5 was, entertaining, but there wasn't really any suspense.
Wheres the part where Miranda Keys straps a nuke to Chief’s back and throws him down a pit? Not Joking, Marty talks about it in a couple of behind the scenes stuff
Could you imagine in Halo 4 when the didact turns around to reveal, he's one massive technologicly modified human, would have been mind blowing to find out the origins of the forruners that way.
Pretty sure it was still kinda the idea around Halo 3, it was only truly retconned with Halo 4. Hell, Guilty Spark outright tells Chief "you are forerunner" at the end of Halo 3. Plus, the whole reclaimer title only makes sense if you're reclaiming what was once yours, which also lends credence to it. Otherwise, humans are just "claimers" And you know, all the technology only responding to human touch and stuff. For some reason 343 just said "oh, the ancient fish people changed all the locks before they committed mass suicide lol"
@@redeye4516 Now that you mention it they do look like fish people lol😂, 343i subverted my expectations just as bad as the last Jedi did, but don't get me wrong I still like Halo 4, I just wish they would have came up with a better background to the forruners, that precursor and the primordial being the will of the universe stuff is kinda stupid (and copied from Mass Effect).
I think Forerruners being ancient humans could've been way cooler. It would implied why humans can actually use their technology, cause it's actually ancient human technology, and more important, it would break all the Covenant after they find out the gods they believed, prayed and dedicated their entired lifes were actually the same race they were fighting over 30 years. I mean, seems like Bungie had that in mind for the early years of creating Halo lore, but at some point they changed the idea, they didn't even write or develop too much the story forerunner as 343 did, but now that I now the early idea, I think it would've been better if Forerruner were actually humans. I just hope one day 343 brings the story about Precursos into the main saga.
@@redeye4516 halo 3's terminals don't contradict forerunners being human either. I've heard some say "oh it was only confirmed in novels" Like dude have you ever heard 343 guilty spark speak? Or the flood?
@@adamgibson3011 With that version of the story there would be no ending warthog run like 3 cause there would be no ring under construction to begin with.
This art would have made everything much cooler and certain parts make more sense like Chief riding the door all the way down in the beginning of Halo 3. Also, since In Amber Clad crashed in High Charity, getting a warthog would have definitely been plausible. Great video
TBH the Chief riding the door down always felt nonsensical to me because he's on the same vessel as the covenant leadership yet chooses to....leave. Unless they explain the reasoning for doing so I feel like this version or the final one in H3 still feel odd.
@@ChouRaiyuki Because the ship was full of Covenant so he wouldn't stand a chance staying in there. He only got away on High Charity because the Schism was splitting the Covenant forces and the flood would later make it even easier.
"The Arbiter knocks Truth out of his throne with a plasma weapon and then shoots him one more time" The story board literally says the cutscene fades into gameplay (another Halo 2 boss battle) and that the Arbiter then approaches Truth and snaps his kneck in the following cutscene. The story board is right there! What do you mean he shoots him?! Lmao
Man the idea of the Forerunners being ancient humans seems so much cooler a story idea. I really hope some day in the future we have like a spiritual reboot following that story over the current one. It just sounds so much cooler an idea to me.
damn. would really love to know bungie's side of halo lore. the fact that humans are forerunners being teased like that..... also their version of the origins of the flood would be very interesting to look into as well
theres other more subtle things hinting to humans being forerunner. the gravemind says something along the lines of "the sins of the father carried by then son". and in CE when chief is about to activate the ring and cortana stops him 343GS says something along the lines of " Why would you hesitate to do what youve already done" im pretty sure theres more but i dont remeber
+a I have a quote for you, directly from the last mission of Halo 3. "You are the child of my Makers. Inheritor of all they left behind. You are Forerunner! But this ring... is mine!" -343 Guilty Spark We were basically outright told that forerunners were humans and 343 decided that was wrong all along.
+Joseph Young I just think the making of Forerunners as a separate species kind of messes with the message halo tries to send about religion, and I think these kinds of messages are important as someone who is actually religious. When the Forerunners were still ancient humans, the story of the Human-Covenant war was a story about a religious pact waging a war of total genocide upon humankind in the name of their gods. And yet, the very gods they worshipped were the ones they killed. They murdered God in the name of God. While this isn't new by any means (just look at the Bible, Jesus was put to death on the orders of the priests of the time), it's still an important message to get across, that one must know thy god, lest you burn heaven in your quest to get there. It's a story about how religion can be abused too, as we see the prophets knew humans were their gods and chose to kill them out of convenience and to gain power rather than reveal the truth. If the forerunners are not humans, but another species entirely, then that message gets muddied and can easily be lost in translation, if it is still present at all. According to the current lore, the forerunners also waged a war of genocide against humanity, and the didact purged human populations to create his promethians. The message on religion is gone, and replaced with a story of "humans got genocided at lot by aliens, now humans aren't anymore and have very big ships made of alien technology, yay" If I have failed to grasp any new and greater meaning from the new 343 canon, please do illuminate me to it, but as it is I feel many good messages for life that come from older games is being lost. It's a lot like assassins creed, people sleep on the first game when arguably it has the most interesting storyline, a character with actual depth and a real character arc, and poses a lot of philosophical questions about faith and religion with almost every target you assassinate. Today, the message is lost in microtransactions, bug-ridden games focused on flash over substance, and poorly implemented RPG mechanics. Although I suppose that's not unique to assassins creed either, it seems like every big game today does that and pretends it's being revolutionary.
@@Deliveredmean42 Maybe not but I'm just sick and tired of it being a thing. I personally have a hard time connecting to characters unless I can at least hear their voice. And since he rarely spoke in the original trilogy (which also pisses me off), my only other option is to connect with his face. But since that was never shown, I couldn't connect to Chief at ALL until Halo 4. I couldn't even connect to him at the end of Halo 3, I only connected to Cortana and the Arbiter. But Halo 4 made me understand their relationship alot more... then Halo 5 ruined it. Anyway, Chief still hid his face but talked WAY more and it was nice to see ACTUAL dialogue between he and Cortana. It's nostalgic to have one-sided conversation but I definitely would've preferred two-way conversation from 4 in the trilogy.
as much as it would've improved H2's campaign i'm actually happy with what we inevitably got because while i can play a halo game where you only fight covenant or the prometheans i don't think that i would be able to sit through a game where you only fight the flood.
Yah, if this alternate Halo 2 were to have been made I don’t see how they could of made Halo 3 as fun as it was. Like the campaign wouldn’t of had the Ark and there’s only so much you can do with the flood gameplay wise. Also, I’m happy Halo 2 didn’t have the Ark as the Halo 3 Ark is much better honestly
Except if that AU Halo 3 was made, Bungie would have finally gotten the flood right. Every Halo game we've gotten has been made with the Flood as a secondary enemy type, imagine how amazing they could be if Bungie put in the amount of time, money, and polish they normally gave the Covenant.
@@nekoprincess4130 Yes, but Bungie had to juggle balancing a massive number of both covenant and flood unit types in Halo 3, not to mention Sentinels and friendly unit types such as Elites, Marines, Construction Workers, etc. The flood were generally balanced and fun to fight in Halo 3, but they weren't polished enough, and thus the jagged edge known as the Flood Ranger made fighting the flood a living hell. Had Bungie the time to iron that out, Cortana would have been way more enjoyable. Even then, Cortana with a balanced Flood Ranger is a horrible comparison. Bungie spent way more time working on the Covenant than the Flood for Halo 3.
Halo definitely struggles with boss fights. Enforcer sentinel might be the best imo. I respect h5 attempt aside form mdama and stupid relentless warden. I hope infinite has some decent ai so boss encounters are interesting and not annoying sponge or wait for the invincibility to drop then 1 shot.
@@caseyhall2320 I feel like even on those difficulties it's hard but enjoyable. The fight vs the Heretic Leader was always miserable imo and the Regret fight stunk because of how everything else would swarm you.
It’s nice to imagine what could of been, although I am happy the Halo 2 ending got scrapped since if it wasn’t than Halo 3 would of been a Flood primary game. Plus the Halo 3 Ark is a lot better than just some Indiana Jones type temple
Just because they have those titles they aren't human? I dunno how you extrapolate that but okay. 343GS literally says to Chief in Halo 3 "you are Forerunner!"
While I agree with all above me, this is the reality of the crunch of the corporate world. We still have an amazing game and it's awesome to see these original storyboard cells
I agree with everything as well but tbh killing Tartarus as the ending was a satisfying conclusion that didn’t feel like a reuse of the previous games ending. We all know if the warthog run was the ending, people would be bitching about the lack of creativity and not being original
@@jacobwhelan45 THANK YOU! Finally! Someone who gets it! I prefer fighting Tartarus and eating tar than a over-used warthog run any day. That's honestly why I loathe Halo 3's ending so much. It's just rehashed and far too predictable but also nerve-wracking. Yes, there IS some satisfaction to beating them but as someone who didn't properly beat Tartarus until about a couple years ago, defeating a boss for the first time like that is INFINITELY more satisfying. Once you know how to navigate the runs, they're too easy. Bosses rely on AI, which isn't as easy to predict. Beating Tartar-sauce was so satisfying and I always thought the cliffhanger was appropriate. Honestly, it got me hyped! But then Halo 3, ironically, let me down in some places...
@@youshallnotpass2156 alot of people want that, don't get me wrong fighting covenant in h3 is fun. But don't tell me a side halo game set as a horror survival game where you play as a marine/odst fighting on their own after watching their squad get killed or something doesn't sound fun?
@@grantspersonal well id want a full halo game rather than a side halo game If i get to choose between h2 and 3 how it is now vs the concepts ill definitely stick to the current ones
There were so many hints and outright statements in the games that imply forerunner were ancient humans. It's stupid how 343i retconned it to be needlessly more complicated than it should have been.
I love the Didact as an isolated character, but I really do wish they kept the Forerunnners humans as well. I could only imagine what the story for at least Halo 4 would have been like if that were the case.
We’d be having this exact same conversation if they went with that though. You see Halo 3 fucked it all. Halo 3’s ARG “Iris” implies Humans were Forerunners. Halo 3’s Cradle of Life comic directly shows Humans were not Forerunners. Halo 3’s Campaign implies Humans were Forerunners. And Halo 3’s Terminals implies Humans were not Forerunners. It’s a god damn mess from everyone at Bungie not having a consensus and instead of talking and planning it out everyone just threw their contradictory ideas into the hat. If 343i went with Humans being Forerunners, we’d be having this exact same conversation about how “Bungie actually wanted them to be a separate race”.
@@zilentis1835 yeah but the problem is that 343’s one wasn’t good. I don’t think anyone would have minded a desperate race if it was not confusing and such.
@@pian-0g445 what I’m saying is: it would still be confusing. Instead of having confusing scenes like 343 Guilty Spark saying “you ARE Forerunner!” We’d instead be confused by the Halo 3 terminals. No matter what 343i picked, it was never gonna be pretty, top it off with Reach absolutely fucking the lore-they had other priorities to “lore patch”.
Personally, I thought the reveal that humans are forerunners at the end was really poorly done, the way guilty spark tells you outright just felt really jarring. Which is part of the reason I don't really care.
5:13 The Dirvish has been my Gamertag for most of my life. And now my channel name. It was named after the Arbiters original name but as a little kid I spelled it wrong with an "I" instead of an "E" and I kept it because I thought it had extra character.
I'm gratefully happy with the ending we have right now. Halo 2 ended at where it needed to be and that gave Halo 3 a lot to talk about. However, I wonder how the entire story will lead us to if Bungie decided to go with the storyboard.
I think it's the complete opposite, Halo 2 opens alot of doors that Halo 3 never closes. Halo 3 story feels rushed and has plenty of plot holes ; How the flood ship found earth ? How Miranda, Johnson and Arbi get back to earth before Rtas 'Vadum ? Hell even before 117 and Truth in a freaking forerunner ship. If Forerunner installations need a human to be activated, why humans followed Truth to the Ark ? Without humans it would have been a covenant/flood war without anyway to enable the rings.
@@kainey Also had everyone followed Admiral Hood's suggestion and sit on Earth for "a few more days" the replacement Halo would be complete and they could just rush over to fire it, killing the Covenant and the Flood since they all would be sitting on the Ark. After replaying Halo 3's campaign a few times on MCC. It honestly feels pretty mediocre.
@@Destroyer4700 Not to mention that Lord Hood's initial plan on Earth was already stupid enough. At the end of Tsavo Highway, look in the distance to the left part of the crater's cliffside. You can barely see Voi. Are you really telling me that one single AA gun with a terribly slow fire rate is stopping an entire armada from flying in to tackle the Dreadnought, requiring the Chief to travel hundreds of miles by land to take it out? A single ship can't just knock the thing over from a distance if it really is that much of a barrier? Lord Hood says that the entire excavation site is surrounded by AA batteries but we never see a single one on the way there! We couldn't have taken out one near Crow's Nest? Why did we have to travel so far for that particular one if they're surrounding the entire perimeter!? The supposed tension of rushing to stop Truth from firing the rings is completely lost and nonsensical given that he wasn't even capable of firing the array, as KNY // pointed out. It was established in Halo 2 that the Covenant were well aware that they needed a human to activate the controls, so why did Truth not have a single hostage with him? What would he have done when he got there, face-palm and then travel back to Earth/send back a ship to capture any humans? I'm genuinely shocked that this game spent an entire year in pre-production given how many oversights the story allows for. If it wasn't for the high production values, I'd honestly think this game was greatly rushed.
@@Destroyer4700 Mediocre, you're harsh lol. Storywise if feels rushed and a bit short, Arbiter and elites are poorly exploited, tons and tons of plot holes, cortana is missing during most of the time and it's pretty annoying cause Master Chief never talks to Arbiter... but to me it's one of the best campaign because it has tons of variety : weapons, levels, vehicles... Fights against scarabs are epic, assault rifle is back, battles are bigger with more AI, graphics were gorgeous back in the days and still look decent etc... But in the end Halo 3 was more focused on MP with forge, theater, iconic game modes, 4 players co-op, file share.
@@kainey The plot is pretty mediocre, comparatively. Only Halo 2 is worse (and probably Halo 5 but I've never played it). The graphics and everything else were great for the time. If anything, this just shows you that Halo games have always been rushed. Just look at Halo Infinite for a recent example.
I kinda like the captions on the story board. Regardless of how the game turned out with either ending as the end result - I still very much enjoy Halo 2 for what it is.
Now a group of modders is required to remake the entire storyboard as a full campaign, maybe in Halo Custom Edition or, if they can manage to increase the campaign size, in H2/3.
Maybe one day Joe Staten could bring up to 343, “ hey let’s remake the levels that were cut, and splice them in the remastered halo 2 version”. Just for fun 🤔. Awesome video , still have great respect for Bungies story telling🙏
Yeah but how would they have predatory monetization systems? Or micro transactions? It isn't enough to just pay them 60 dollars, they have to dangle those extra deals on a stick to give your ape brain dopamine and make you do it again, and again... I love John Halo. The conditioning works, thanks Microsoft and 343.
I kinda wished we had the original storyboard ending, I felt like it gave the Halo story more time to grow and would help fix the story that is halo 4, also sarge and Miranda live, and their deaths felt super rushed in Halo 3
Thank gods someone remembers the Original idea was Humans were the Forerunners It was hinted in CE and it was literally stated by Spark himself in Halo 3
I’d love to revive the “directors cut” of Halo 2. Essentially rebuild the Halo 2 that Bungie intended to make in 2004 using whatever is available. Imagine a special Halo 2 Directors Cut Edition. Maybe even do a Halo 3 Directors Cut Edition which builds off this new Halo 2, rather than the original.
I’m honestly glad they cut the warthog run it made the 3rd one that much more special. A good call back to the first. It would have been tired as hell at that point had they kept on there
It wouldn't have, because if Halo 2 ended the way it was supposed to, there wouldn't have been a Halo 3. Even if there was, it would have been an entirely different game and wouldn't necessarily have a Warthog run in it.
Man, I've been wondering what this ending would be since I heard the dev commentary for Halo 2 years back. A bit of the mystery has been solved, but I still wanna know what goes on with Miranda arc-welding a damn nuke to Chief.
Honestly super interesting to hear this version of the story, mostly the same BUT the humans are forerunner idea is super cool, AND it makes sense since earth is the ARK so essentially they were saving their species from a mass extinction, so the earth was basically a reference to noahs ark!
Hey man, I enjoyed your videos back in the halo 2/3 days years and years ago. It's awesome to see you continuing to make such high quality halo content. It's in depth and informative, and really opens up the Halo universe to someone who only played the games. I'm building up a lot of hype for Infinite. Keep it up man!
Halo 2 was originally meant to be one big warthog run start to end😂 Its canon that master chief's father was actually a warthog. The original halo 2 ending was meant to be master chief finding his father again, when master chief, being half warthog, turns into a warthog himself and halo 3 was just warthog chief and his father driving off into the sun set with different back drops for 10 levels.
The cut script for Halo 2 does a Joel Schumacher's Batman and Robin, where Master Chief takes a door from the Forerunner ship and surfboards it down to earth.
I've heard about this for a long time now just never been able to get a visual of how it was meant to look. This is pretty cool. I've been playing halo like crazy lately. I'm so excited for the new one!=)
So Halo 3 is just Halo 2: Chapter 2 which I assume would mean Halo 3 would have been a complete flood run to save Cortana which I would absolutely loved!
Thanks for sharing, I didn't know this stuff was out there. My own speculation was that Halo 2 would have High Charity itself land on Earth to activate the Ark (not just the Forerunner ship), with the explanation that the entire city was designed for this one purpose by the Covenant (fits their religious fanaticism) and the Forerunner ship would then take off for the Ark, and we'd have a Warthog run to get Master Chief on the Forerunner ship to pursue them, as in the original Halo 2. So Master Chief's story itself would be the same in Halo 2 basically, maybe the Arbiter would get some of Master Chief's Halo 3 levels trying to reach the landed High Charity. His story could end in him destroying High Charity to stop the Flood from infecting earth, maybe. (Then we don't need another Flood ship crashing on Earth which was an odd choice in the story since the Flood shouldn't care about Earth, they'd want to get to the Ark and stop the Covenant.)
I love Marty but he has said multiple times that he has the audio files for the dialogue in the cut third act of the game, and that he will never release them. The guy's a genius, but that is seriously sick.
Kidd, if you pay close attention to the Halo 2 Making of Videos, you'll see that they did complete the design for the Ark Finale, though it was only what seems to be a Banshee chase, but the Ark's design is very much identical to the one on Halo 3. You also missed the storyboards after Chief goes into Re-entry, There's already a huge battle going on where the Ark is, with Chief literally dropping in encouraging the Marines to fight. the Brutes uncover the Ark, and just as a final fuck you the Prophet of Truth glasses all of them, The Ark raises its shields but not before Miranda, Johnson and Arbiter make it inside.
Speaking of Halo 2, does anybody know the meaning of the Prophet of Mercy's final words on Truth's departure: "Earth--to finish what we started, and this time, none of you will be left behind"?
I like that Arbiter has to wait longer for his righteous vengeance in the final games but otherwise this just seems so much better and more coherent. Also would have been very interesting to see where Bungie would have gone with the enemies, the Flood might have gotten a much better overhaul than the one they got in 3.
I think it'd be cool if someone made a director's cut mod for Halo 2 where a lot of the cut content (missions, weapons, vehicles, etc.) was recreated and restored. Halo 2 was already amazing as is, but Bungie had to remove so much in the 2-3 months they had to actually work on it, just to meet a really tight deadline. I think it would be an interesting change of pace playing through a modded version of the Halo 2 campaign that more closely resembled Bungie's originally intended vision overall.
Well, it is becoming real! Not exactly but Vengeful Vadam is modding h2 campaign and adding back cut contents. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-5c0RsNiRWYg.html
Wow this is so crazy! I always wanted to know what the originally ending was to halo 2. Super interesting what ideas carried over to halo 3. I liked how they concluded the story in halo 3.
It's nice to know we more or less got Halo 2's cut ending. In one of the Halo 3 ViDocs bungie mentions how they always knew they wanted Halo 3 to start in a jungle, which definitely implies that even in Halo 2, Master Chief was meant to land in the jungle when he left Truth's ship, and feature a mission there.
Not necessarily. Given the more powerful hardware and the time to flesh out this new final act, Bungie took a step back and found a new perspective for Halo 3, making changes to their original vision for Halo 2 in order to better serve the story they wanted to tell.
@@southpaw117 well yeah, there were changes and additions. I just mean that fundamentally most of Halo 2's original ending is sprinkled throughout Halo 3, so it's nice to know we essentially got it in the end.
@@LordEmpyreal Of course, I'm just saying that Halo 3 starting in a jungle doesn't ultimately mean that the 16th level of the original Halo 2 was going to as well. With only three levels left and the Prophet of Truth at the Ark, heading straight there would have been top priority instead of mucking around somewhere else.
@@southpaw117 well no, but considering Bungie intended Halo 3 to start in the jungle from the very beginning of development, that implies that it would have been one of those three missions. 1- Keyship, 2- Jungle 3- Ark.
@@LordEmpyreal No, it doesn't imply that at all. You're baselessly assuming it was a carryover from Halo 2's script just because it was an initial vision.
Ok, the warthog run on Cairo station, I'm kinda glad they didn't do that. *But that warthog run at the end where he drives ONTO the ship, that would've be AWESOME.* Also Johnson not dying would've been cool too.
Now I see why they recanted the entire story for Halo 2 during development hell. Sticking with this ending would've made the game way too long. Sure there was a cliffhanger at the end of the original ending for Halo 2, but it looks like they were planning for a cliff hanger to happen anyway (The scene with Cortana talking to the Grave mind). Unfortunately there never really existed much of a grand ending for Halo 2. I'm glad they added some of the same elements of this ending to Halo 3 though.
The wort hog run at the end of high charity would have been crucial to explaining how chief got on the prophet of truth ship. That always baffled me for the longest when I played this for the first time as a kid. I feel like they should have at least included showing chief getting on the prophet of truth ship.
wow, and people complained back in the day that halo 2 and 3 weren't honest about their marketing and the game didn't actually take place on earth, but what could the story have looked like if they were allowed to do everything they wanted
I like it when the handwriting reads as "THE [OBJECT] FUCKERS" thanks to the style it's written in. :B Honestly though I'm perfectly happy with all this content being cut. It's trying to explain too much and just adds too much padding. Y'know, apart from the human skeleton reveal which would've been neat instead of whatever Halol 4 did. Oh well, you win some you lose some! It's cool to see this behind-the-scenes stuff all the same, so thanks for covering this! :D
If Microsoft delayed Halo 2 from launching from 2004 in the next year... This Vision could be the in Halo 2 as a Launch Title for the Xbox 360 when it launch in November of 2005, since the system could have handle all those stuff better compared the original Xbox... Then Halo 3 could have been only about the Arbiter Story (since Master Chief Story could have ended as him reaching a General Rank) and then game would have launched in 2009 as a game about the Flood...
