Hans Niemann vs Piers Morgan - Hikaru LMAO!! 

lol that troll comment went to international news

Piers: "How do you disprove you used anal beads?" Is this real or a SNL skit? Why did Hans even do this?

happens all the time. Remember the urine dossier?

Chessbrahs > Chess community > Elon musk > Everywhere

It was McLovin

ok cringaru fanboi

​@@FlagerMiszczthis dude supports the ANALitic player

@@FlagerMiszcz whats with the hating? God these 12 yrs olds too!

@@ishtiaqueparvez9269 yeah I know! these people hating Hans are so childish

@@FlagerMiszcz literally talking about you lmao

Mine was "I felt butthurt"

"I felt something got clenched inside me."

little tickle morse code

oh wow so you have a brain? this is already an achievement in your life, keep it up bro

@@FlagerMiszcz that came out of nowhere, but OK

The vibrator speaks for itself

Plus the recent incident I’m like hans how many mistakes are we going to allow

@@listen2luckiwhat did he do recently?

destroyed a hotel room@@comal90

Hikari seems very likeable, Magnus is a rock n rolla, and Hans seems uptight and anal. Just my opinion because I have never met them but....

cracking

The kick 'Magnus's but' comment was quite funny. 😆

this comment wins the internet

❌

hilarious bro.

I'm starting to believe that Piers must have aspergers syndrome. He, while being completely stoic, just keeps hounding Hans on the anal beads lmao

he doesn't smile because he actually believes it. he doesn't care about the truth. all he does is try to invite controversial guests just so he can not be the most degenerae asshole in the room for just a moment.

Im not impressed he's trash

Well he was trying to keep it together for the sake of interview. But it's definitely a shameful thing for a GM to be accused of such thing. It's beyond pathetic.

He s just old

They thought that 10 seconds in when they saw they would speak about anal beads for 30 minutes.

Guy can't even make decent excuses to validate his cheating

so he could compete against higher rated ppl

Yes the typical excuse after cheating, "I didnt matter" only after the consequences reached him. If it didn't matter, why did he feel the need to cheat? So something mattered. What was it? His need for a higher rank. Why did he have to cheat to get it? Because it would be hard and take more time if he didnt cheat. What an absolute clown with 0 logic.

@@paupajares9678 he couldn't even beat lower rating people... why would he want to compete with higher rating people? get whooped even harder then.

@@DonLee1980 i mean it kinda worked seeing how he became a super gm. Anyways, online rating really is pretty meaningless. Dont agree with him cheating tho. It was wrong, but cheating online and cheating otb with money on the line really is different. But it seems to me like yall wont even hear him out. Especially hikaru, he was on the defensive for the whole video. Like when he pulled the "krammnik (i think it was him, dont remember now) said online games matter so online games matter" like wtf is even that argument. Really stupid reasoning overall. Or when he decided to ignore that a blatant case of irony was in fact, irony

Piers is the anal bead of "news" interviews. They deserve each other.

You can't write this stuff!

haha comedy gold so funni oh my god haha someone's tragedy is so funni ohmygottt!!!!!!1111oneone haha cringaru laughed at it so do i!!1one

@@FlagerMiszcz Nobody forced Hans to do an interview on Television and nobody made him choose Piers Morgan as the interviewer. This is all his own choice.

Maybe for a low IQ, you know all the times you can learn something from anything, just try to be curious enough. That question is moronic at best. I guess media people are good at making a mountain out of a mole. And only high IQ persons are clever enough not to fall for it.

Chess clown 🤡 😂😂😂

Why? He was falsely accused of cheating in the game vs Magnus where Magnus played like dogshit and lost. Ofc he learned from it all, he learned you brainless fanboi drones ganging up on him exist but your opinions are worthless, he learned Pierce Morgan is a moron and he learned Magnus ego is overinflated. For a kid those are pretty huge lessons.

He even felt the need to cheat the interview with a lawyer sending him signals...

to have a better haircut of course

@@thomdotexe regretted cheating overall. Meaningless games he said were only at 16. Not at TT when he was 12. Get the context right

@@dwightPhoenix It was always a very convenient framing on Hans' part to stress out how he was ONLY 16 years old when he cheated, when it was really only 2 years prior to this whole controversy, it's not like he became a whole different person over that period. Besides, he kept on cheating for several months after his 17th birthday as well, those are the last instances before he got banned. And the games he cheated in when he was 16-17 were very much in Titled Tuesdays, meaning they were for money. Check the report again.

@@rohan1864 I was responding to the incorrectness of people interpreting what he said. As it relates to the report, IDK others have said it js not very true others have said it is......Idk. there are alot of biased opinions going around tho.

@@dwightPhoenix ok I understand you, though upon inspection I still don't think the relevance of the original comment relied too heavily on the distinction you made

Yeah in my opinion it's even worse that he apparently cheated on a meaningless game because if he would do that imagine what he would do in a meaningful game. Makes no sense too why go out of your way to cheat in a game that means nothing? Then to say he did it to raise his rating on the website... If a game raises/lowers your rating and you cheat because the higher rating means something to you... How is that same game meaningless if by his own definitely it meant something to him.

Imo it makes Peirs look worse than Hans. Hans isn’t someone who commands much respect, but Piers conducting this bad faith interview with a very clearly biased prospective makes him look like a huge jerk and bully to anyone informed on the topic, and makes Hans look like an idiot to anyone who doesn’t realize why Piers conflating over the board and online is dumb, and how anal beads have never been a serious part of the allegations. I don’t like Hans for sure, but Piers is the one who I’d least like to spend 5 minutes in a room with after seeing this

@@jamesmoniz5263 You're clearly not familiar with Piers then. He's inflammatory on purpose. He does this to a lot of his interviewees

@@jamesmoniz5263piers morgan is a despicable human being. this interview is his mildest offence

@@jamesmoniz5263agreed. GREAT entertainment tho so I’m selfishly not against him roasting people. Hans should’ve never taken this interview to begin with

@@menace202does that make it better in some way? Like if he doesn't it regularly that doesn't make it any better...

I think he’s going to lengths to prove he didn’t cheat against magnus. It’s called damage control. People that only heard of him through the scandal only have the impression that he cheated against magnus. This is his way of clearing that up.

@@ahmadchemkhi4240its like robbing a bank then 10 years later you go to a bank and they detain you and investigate you 😂😂 you always cry about that 1 time you were innocent

Agreed. Just move on and play great chess---which he is currently not doing.

It was already too late for that long before this interview. Now in his mind his only chance is to switch it over to "the guy who proved the whole chess community wrong". Of course this is a terrible idea with no hard evidence proving his innocence, and at this point "guy who took it on the chin and became legitimately great chess player" would be much better

@@ahmadchemkhi4240 It is better to let people think you are a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt! Hans is not helping himself

lol

Yeah fr in the best way possible tho lol 😂

Used to be it did not, but now, wow. People build their careers off of streaming and coaching based on online success it seems.

honestly right??

You solved it, though being a cheater is paired directly with being a compulsive liar, especially lying about not being a cheater. Compulsive liars never run out of stories and never admit defeat.

Very good point. Maybe Hans thought fudging a few online games, cutting a few corners to get ahead quickly isn't a big deal.

You made the point I was going to make but you did it better. His comparison to pickup basketball was ridiculous.

Think he mispoke there. He meant to say that online games aren't as impactful as over-the-board FIDE tournaments. He wanted to say that online games was a way for him to learn and test himself and that's why he used cheating tools.

That was pn point.

he never denied using them off the board. ;)

@@tommaso8819 Only horny Reddit fucktards believe in beads, bcz that's how they view sexuality in this rather off kilter context.

Can’t wait till he gets Magnutted on next time they play each other

your dad a few years ago: I wanna throw something against the wall your mom: hold my fetus

@@FlagerMiszcz …crickets

Hans: Hold my vibrator

The whole logic doesn’t make sense, he said cheating in meaningless games helped him gain rank? Those are the easiest games to win when you’re gaining rank lol why cheat

i think that's not the case, cause if thats true why did he bring his lawyer to answer his questions.

People thinking they know the motivations of people is also pretty wild. He has one of the best lawyers in the country and I bet he did not recommend this interview. If I would guess, hans did it for the PR for his charity alone. Piers is a clown and everyone knows that, he wont restore anything, but has a lot of views.

@@osman3972 The lawyer is there so Hans doesn't run his dumb mouth while Piers fires dart after dart of infuriating questions Hans is nowhere near being capable of handling without blurting out something worth going to court over.

@@SELFMADE300his lawyer is shit

​@@SELFMADE300Yeah, I think he even gets more views than Hikaru 🤔.

i felt bad bc im pretty positive that he cheated and he was getting destroyed in this interview. Any person with the minimum knowledge about body language can tell that his speech througout the whole discussion was very incongruent and evasive, he couldnt have make it more clearer that he cheated

yes Hans looked like a fool in this interview and Piers made sure he would look stupid...

@@rafaelpaquete3350He didn’t cheat in his game against Magnus, every unbiased GM and serious expert says so. It’s this misinformation and speculative reasoning to always deduce Hans a cheater that is incredibly annoying.

@@payload1174 okay but hes lying on something, I dont know about what, but yeah he obviously cheated more than twice his whole life

@@rafaelpaquete3350then tell us- i'm really interested. how did he cheat and why did he blunder the win in the endgame?

Good point

The thing is. Even if he cheated in every fucking online game, he's proven how good he is ovee the board where it's impossible to cheat

@@indirectthought8150 what is "good" if one doesn't know the difference of what is right or wrong?

@@heritage-musicdownmemoryla4922 in chess, and as a gm, good is when you beat other gms

@@lordespion8789 In chess beating others by cheating is not good. N why would one cheat if one is good

not only that, it suggests that his 'apology' for that cheating is entirely empty. it suggests that he didn't, in fact, learn his lesson. That he genuinely doesn't understand why cheating is such a big deal. in fact, it directly suggests a mentality that could very easily justify cheating in actual real tournaments. "Magnus has plenty of money and wins, another one doesn't matter to him, its meaningless" If the reward for winning the game is the only thing that gives the competition meaning then...oof.

Why? Hans is never going to get rid of his black clouds hovering over him, so as they say "all publicity is good publicity".

​@@templarroystonofvaseyit's really not though. Sometimes that can work ig, but in Hans case it'll probably only hurt him more. Since no one outside of chess cares about him besides the anal plug accusation, which only serves to make a good joke about and then move on as seen here with Piers. Then in Chess, cheating is a huge no no, so that reputation of being a cheat does nothing to benefit you there. Probably only makes it harder to negotiate brand deals and such, since you have this stigma that you are a cheater. So in the chess world he possibly loses out on all sorts of deals & sponsorships due to his reputation as a cheater, and outside chess it only serves as a passing joke (not anything to make up for on the possible money opportunity losses in Chess). So no his reputation being bad, certainly doesn't help him.

@@thecapitalisticdictator2256That's just your opinion. If the likes of Warlord Blair can return to politics despite half a million deaths on his hands, Hans spreading his name as much as possible gaining infamy, will work in his favour long term. Who still remembers "Nasty nick"?

i agree with him, cheating in online chess is literally meaningless, some people use an engine to get better and to learn even. they are not bad people or even untrustworthy in over the board games or cheaters in general life. using an engine in online chess is so normal (there is literally an engine running at all times), using it to cheat is a very small step to take.

Is very difficult to get the respect back after getting caught cheating, in chess, in love, in anything. The only way he could get it back is by playing more and talking less and let the time pass.

@@lluhuhe didn’t really get caught cheating which is a big misunderstanding Some dude commented on chessbrahs channel that he had used anal beads to cheat Then the comment blew up And then somehow so many people believed the comment and decided to spread it 😂😂😂😂 He might’ve cheated but not through anal beads I believe

@@donotlookatmyprofilepictur6795 Hans himself said that he was caught cheating twice when he was 12 and 16. He said that those were the only two times he had cheated, which means he was caught 100% of the times he actually cheated...quite a high percentage in my opinion.

that's not a legal team you want to be up against as a private citizen. deeper pockets in a defendant can be a two way street.

right. Imagine Hans sueing Elon. Just imagine 🙂

Exactly my point. He is both a cheater and a clown. Allegedly. 💁🏼‍♂️

@@jedinxf7 Isn't it sad and scary that basically justice won't be served unless you have enough money? Thats really a scary fact. Not saying that Hans did or did not cheat, but just the realisation of this is kinda disheartening. If someone who has a lot of money does you wrong, you can't get justice because of their financial status. That is the premise that these comments have given.

@@kemokula1170 this is the world we live in and things like that happened again and again over the years. Back in the day you used your influence to take someone else's life, land or both. These days governments vote for laws to strip someone of their dignity or even freedom and even legalize some fucked up shit to justify a person or party or even release them from prison. The law is used to basically suppress the weak. 💁🏼‍♂️

I think he means relativly meaningless in comparison to FIDE games

@@Thim01 He said himself he values a higher online rating. Concurrently, he’s robbing other chess players of their online rating and dismissing it as meaningless. He’s not a good person.

@@pbp6741 once again, I think he means relatively to over the board FIDE games. Ofc it is kinda important, and he obviously cared, but his point was that its not logical to directly assume that he is cheating over the board at an important tournament, just because he cheated on these online games

1000%. Underrated comment. Imagine being on national tv being berated by a internationally known host of the show

@@Cdix It's different when you choose to go on a show. All publicity is good publicity.

Quite disappointed that Piers never asked him to elaborate on the likelyhood of getting caught 100 percent of the times he cheated.

This kid is 19 years old firstly. Secondly he's not the first time under the cameras. He's btw the pro strimmer

Not enough pressure apparently, since he decided to to on this interview.

Really ?

????! I don't know when we'll actually be able to trust Hans, but this butt plug thing doesn't have ANY credibility. He deserves the benefit of the doubt mainly because we may be facing a brain that is not only intelligent, but also unusually functioning -- we have to be cautious because we know little about this human machine. Whatever the weather brings, in this interview Hans behaved with great dignity in front of a disqualified interviewer. And you, Hikaru, laughed and then, contradictorily, said it was all very sad, wild!! This rotten journalist was wild.

Best interview ever?? The interview was super cringe. Piers asked Hans anal beads questions 5 times

@ The answer to the question of "when can we believe hans again" is: never. He cheated. That's what cheating does to you. If you do it once, you'll be doubted forever. But on the bright sight, it's REALLY easy to avoid that: Just don't fucking cheat. If you have not learned that by the age of 12, there's nothing happening anymore in regards to that. Concidering that, it's highly likely you'd do so again 8 years later. (4 years, if you count his cheating at 16) Piers always does this. That's his stick. Hans is stupid for thinking he's getting a "fair interview".

@@profanemagic5671 You must be a judge with the fury of saints & with pockets full of stone. His idea that human beings are ready at 12 years of age is a stupidity that I thought was not possible since Freud discovered the unconscious. You must think you are ethically perfect... Therefore, you are the one who is not trustworthy. In fact, you were willing to accept (in a complacent, resigned and meek way) Piers' lack of ethics, as if the blame were solely on the person who accepted the interview!! You have no logic, much less ethics. Anyway, time will tell who Hans is, as no one can guarantee ANYTHING.

IDK, it feels forced.

America thinks Piers is a complete joke muckraker, and Hans choosing to go on his show just further damages his over-all image.

I think I actually agree with Hans' points, it's just that he can't get over his own ego and present facts as just facts.

@@kingkillah101piers is amazing

I think Piers was a bit of a piece of shit and I don't agree with some of his points but I can't deny this was very funny. Hans was also pretty terrible and almost equally funny here.

@@kingkillah101 you say “America thinks” when it is only your family who thinks such thing hahaha

and supposedly, he only cheated the one time. Why did he stop?

wasn't it to some extent something like he wanted to climb rating faster in order to be matched against well known players more often, which did help his stream viewership or something. So those individual games didn't mean much, just getting a few online rating points faster.

Great point.

This is a very vague point. He just wanted to use the engine out of curiosity in random online games, which I agree is not acceptable, but the backlash he is facing is a million times greater than his act of cheating at age 12&18.

He wanted to climb the ladder faster to play better players. And ofcourse online games are meaningless, if you cheat and get caught, you get banned, as he did, big whoop. No one gets harmed.

Sharp for a 6 year-old, lmao. All he said was basically "no, you!"

Only very barely. It takes just half of a common wit to reallise the best thing he can do in the situation is turn the audience focus to Piers. Besides as your other replier said, it's basically a less simplified version of ''no, you''.

Same.

ngl Hikaru's laugh cures my depression

​@@kevindownes9474Well, then I wish you a good recovery from those predicaments.

How did he get eviscerated? Piers conducted himself like a child. He's clearly just trying to get views and not actually interested in this at all. How many times did he bring up anal beads? I mean honestly it's funny if your 12 years old sure but some people really want to know whether magnus was being a little bitch about losing or if hans actually cheated.

He’s obviously arrogant or ignorant and answered that when he immediately went off topic trying to promote his scholarship and himself.

I mean he’s been clearly arrogant, but peirs was also largely antagonistic and unprofessional in the conduct of the interview. I don’t trust Hans, but considering he’s a 20 year old kid who’s whole career is basically marred with no chance for reconciliation….. I don’t think either side looked good in this interview

@@jaredreeves451 first time watching Piers?

Its beyond just being arrogant, he likely is an actual narcissist. Hopefully the traits become less pronounced by time he is 25, which sometimes happens.

the way he asked them in a dead serious manner makes me think hes not trolling which makes it even funnier lol

????

@@dwightPhoenix So funny seeing hans fanboys not realising how idiotic he came off in this interview, and how he just confirms he is a digusting cheater who deserves no respect lmfao.

@@dwightPhoenix What exactly do you not understand?

​@@MatausPiers made a mockery of himself, if anything.

Hans sycophants big mad he he.

He said meaningless at 16...not at 12 for TT

@@dwightPhoenixYes, the way Hikaru twisted Hans’s words instantly was very dishonest.

up to this day no one has a clue how he had cheated. not defending him but the internet went so wild on this story its ridiculous. no one even seems to be interested that the game against carlsen wasn't great and he even blundered a win in the endgame. the game was much more about carlsen playing a sub par game (even poor game by his standards) and not about hans playing flawless. no matter what has happened there this game was well within the capabilities of hans. if you like him or not

@@floolo1 There's various ways, but yes no one can confirm it after the fact unless he admits it. I am not saying that he even cheated, but his reasoning isn't sound. His reasoning is the same as saying he only stole $20 because it's not much, but he would never steal $2,000

@@floolo1 Someone with critical thinking in the comments 😭 god bless

He said he cheated a number of times at 16 for rating, and one single game at 12 for a tournament. It could be a lie but that is always what he has said since this started

@@BeansWebster-xz7ve So then he lied here when he said he cheated once at 12, and once at 16. Interesting.

​​@@BeansWebster-xz7veHans said he only cheated twice. He did it once at 12 and once at 16. He admitted to this in this very interview. He is lying. He cheated a lot more than twice. Because he is lying so much, I have no reason to believe him when he said he had never cheated in otb games. In fact, he believe it more than before that he did cheat on otb games.

Once at 16 refers to a time he cheated once, as in you cheat in a tournament, you cheated once

he means that at a certain point, elo does not matter at all for earning money or entrances to tournuments

He means hes a compulsive liar

lol, “beads” 😂

So true.

Have you ever cheated at Monopoly or cards? How about coursework and exams during your education? Maybe something more grey like finding money on the street as a teenager and putting it in your wallet? Chess players are the same as everyone else and I doubt there's many Jesus status figures amongst them.

@@templarroystonofvasey Are you like that?

@templarroystonofvasey No not everyone is like that actually. If you are cool with people that operate like that you wil get burned , hopefully then you will learn from it.

@@connectingthedots100 Have you ever cheated? I think first you need to paint yourself as Jesus before asking others to confess.

Piers was the one acting like a clown. Hans shouldve known it wouldnt be a good idea to take this interview tho

Brining the lawyer was dumb too. Makes him look even more guilty. And the lawyer should have stopped the interview immediately

@@SoupSailor yeah I don’t believe for a second that he cheated in that match with Magnus. But man did it open a nasty can of worms for him. To be fair a history of cheating for a professional is extremely serious and should have consequences, even he was ‘just 16’. Also no one believes that he only cheated twice online. He probably cheated dozens of times and probably even as early as last year. But who knows, even if it was just twice it’s bad. Saying ranked online chess matches don’t matter is also an extremely stupid thing to say for someone trying to make a living playing the game.

he does such a poor job of telling people how ridiculous these allegations of using anal beads are. it should be a piece of cake to pick this apart. also the magnus game could be waaaaay better explained by him. it was really a sub par game by magnus with plenty of mistakes - also hans made quite a few mistakes in that one. why doesn't he state things in his favour? he even beat magnus in a game like a week before that. he then lost 3 in a row against him. its not like its out of this world that he could beat carlsen when carlsen has a clear off day like in st louis

@@johnlicciardello2389 Bring lawyer was a great move

The obvious detail Hans is glossing desperately over is that he was streaming at the time and making income as a streamer. The higher his rating and the more prestigious players he got to play, the more viewers and income he was likely to gain. Those games were anything but "meaningless".

He could counter that with everything at that age is meaningfull, first crush, f grades and so on.. But today looking at it, those games were meaningless

@@Zec123ify that makes no sense, the games were objectively not meaningless. Theyre also not meaningless now as its was caused all his problems. Magnus would not have accused Hans if Hans had never cheated. I get giving second chances especially when mistakes are made while young. However Hans has done nothing but downplay what he admits to and denying the other more damning cheating online. To get a second chance you have to actually show you learned from your mistakes, Hans has done the opposite.

Maybe the position was winning from a human pov but engine found a hidden/brilliant move which was hard for a human to see.

Surprised not many people caught this.

Definition of "Meaningless games" : Games that I Didn't understand or didn't hold any value to me as a learning material.

Same! Crying over here!

Defamed where?

For financial gain, you get paid to go onto his show

@@phrazee Hope he got paid a fair bit then lol

@SeaGlassSets Yes he would have been paid very well. More than he would make in a year playing chess

Hope you are perfect, otherwise i got some bad news for you

Han's comments after the match maybe? Do you really expect drama queens to be logical and reasonable at all times? Magnus is human too.

Magnus only accused Hans isn’t evidence of any kind. I don’t like Hans, but it’s a fair point to say that other players at Hans’ skill level often can beat Magus as well. Magnus’ allegations aren’t a substitute for evidence. I don’t like Hans, but I hate how people think just cause someone is bad or did something bad in the passed, they don’t need to have proof to backup claims

@@jamesmoniz5263 Would you marry a women/man who killed their partner at 18 and another one at 20 to get their wealth? I think you wouldn't because the chance of him/her killing you is high, simply because that person did is multiple times before. Fair, it's a harsh analogy, but put yourself into any respected person. Evidence or not, we know by fact he cheated multiple times. He admitted. He even cheated in money tournaments. Where do we want to believe a notorious liar and cheater to draw the line? Magnus embraces the young players like Pragg, Alireza and others, because he indeed wants a challenge. He is not interested in beating the same people all over again and hopes to find a true challenger. To think that the challenger would be a cheater, you definitely have doubts about his integrity. Hans earned his reputation not by Magnus, but by his own actions. He has a known reputation of cheating, admitting to it. If you build up a reputation of lying and cheating, EVERYTHING you do, will be questioned. EVERYTHING. That's why you should be honest and integrity should matter to you. All your achievements if truthfully earned or illegal by cheating, are meaningless, because they will always fall into suspicion. Always. Actions have consequences. Period.

@@jamesmoniz5263 That's not at all what he said.... Op meant hans just proved that magnus didn't accuse him because he was beaten by a low rating. He accused him because it was hans. Magnus has been beaten by same ratings and didn't accuse them of anything. Op didn't say it was evidence, just pointed out the fact that Magnus has lost to lower ranks before, but hans is the only person he has called a cheater. And is a past proven one (not at 12 like he claims).

I mean.. I cheated at a young age on counter-strike and at some point I realized how stupid it was and now I'm working with anti-cheat efforts at a game company. Your past defines you, but not always in the expected ways... To me the most important information here is whether or not he cheated 100+ times or whatever that report said.

you play video games for fun and sometimes creating a burner account and just cheating the fuck out of a multiplayer game until you get smacked by a ban is fun. I did it a lot when I was a child. and back then, online chess was as meaningful as some random lobby in cs 1.6. it was casual accusations are serious and magnus and whoever was involved should pay the fine and suck their pride back in

I dont think he did it for his cheating Reputation but More for fame

@@niklaswetz1300100% . I mean, the first thing he did was try to promote his scolarship, lmao. He really thought he was going to get something positive out of this.

Hans? Piers pronounces is close to the original German pronunciation of its origin. It's Americans who don't pronounce the short "a" vowel sound. The way most Americans pronounce Anna or Mario sounds hilarious to the rest of the world.

German person here: No, it's not. It's actually closer to the actual pronounciation than what americans call him.