Is This Proof That Hans Niemann Cheated? 

​@ Assuming the WHOLE game is Mate in 45 moves and you play the best moves, then I have no complaints.

@ If you finish a game in 8 moves and it's 100% engine accuracy, that's one thing. But 45 moves in a row 100% engine accuracy? That is unheard of.

@Oscar csdj You know nothing to chess, so stop spreading lies: 1) The game was only 30 moves (first 15 moves were theory). 2) Chessbase's correlation stats do not only consider only Stockfish, but as many engines at as many settings as people cared to compare the game with. In Niemann's case, people have been all over his games and many such comparisons have been made. 3) So the 100% correlation in Chessbase database isn't with Stockfish alone, but with any combination of a big number of engines. If you compare the moves against 50 different engines there's bound to be one of them suggesting your move, so it's much easier to get 100% correlation here. So 100% correlation here doesn't mean Niemann is playing exactly like Stockfish, it means he is playing a move at least one of the numerous engines is suggesting. Basically this proves absolutely nothing and no conclusions can be drawn from this.

@ wow you’re more precise than the best chess players of all time random guy on RU-vid congratulations

​@ Niemann had multiple tournaments with higher engine correlation than Magnus and Kasparov, not just 1 game. Obviously it does not prove anything that he has mutlitple 100 correlation (not just accuracy) games whilst Carlsen and Fabiano have almost none

The chess has spoken for itself!

I was curious... If he lasted 45 moves against 100% what was that person's score... That seems to be a very important question

@@1fast72nova it doesnt really connect he could have won position by move 30 and fully accurate for next 15 moves which were just transition, it would make his oponent be max 66% which is fine

@@krosserq3737 but what was the actual number. Could be 66... Could be 98

@@1fast72nova They were at 62%, they show the result at 28:46 - so in the lower range of a 'Super GM' average engine correspondence

The dude was probably hanging on for dear life.

Plot twist: he used Stockfish as well.

Hahahaha TRUE! 😂😂

@ I agree to a certain extent. The issue is other players should also be getting 100% if it’s that easy to get one of those moves, but they don’t. Pretty much all your arguing is that all the super GMs are so bad they can’t find one of the moves from hundreds of different engines, only Hans can.

@ if anything to me that suggests he could be attempting to hide the fact he is cheating by not using the best stock fish move everytime, but using a different engine for a certain proportion of moves. So no singular engine will match exactly what he plays, making detection of cheating harder.

😂😂😂

Is it a really tiny bar stool? Just to be clear, I'm talking small enough to go up someone's backside...

And it has a vibrate feature

original joke

Musk level geni right there.

nice

nice

nice

nice

Plot twist- Opponent was also using stockfish

lmao

@@hemanghuria4956 😂😂

Legend🤣

Plot twist 2: When Gotham shows engine games it’s Hans’s games against other robots

Was going to like your comment but… Casper’s number!

I wanted to like this, but you currently have 69 likes. Nice.

Giving like just because it will reach hans elo rating gains

He can but not for moore then half the games.

Maybe he should replace anal beads from time to time as well.

morse code thru the ass to 45 straight stockfish moves.

@@EricM93 lmfao

Literally 😂

XD

😂😂😂😂

I didn't need to be called out like that today, damn

FREE MY BOI HANS

An hour ? I skipped a ton..... didn't everyone ?

Lol, sounds about like my chess playing 😆

My games justs gives a popup that says why did you run this?

I get basis points

0.001% is still % just not a whole percent.😅

Bruh 😂

💀💀💀

Buzzing with pleasure. 🤤

in the rear end chess speaks for itself

Bbbbbbb4

Gaped

Hold on to your butts...

You don't realise even when you play Stockfish moves that doesn't mean you are cheating-provided you memorised those moves before the play.

@@oosmanbeekawoo You don't realise that it is practically impossible to memorise the whole game because there is so many variations on the board.

@@korditsch7792 When you are at high level, it is _imperative_ that you memorise most of the book moves, and he admitted himself he got lucky to have looked that one up!

I think you have a point here.

He did the same to make a breaktrough online...

If Hans is not banned for life, chess is basically ruined.

even from blitz and bullet you can see he isn't a regular IM. He's for sure strong, and that's what makes him a potentially dangerous cheater.

Your opinion is absolutely stupid, because all the Yosha video and stats are filled with massive methodological mistakes. The biggest are: 1) Chessbase's correlation stats do not only consider only Stockfish, but as many engines at as many settings as people cared to compare the game with. In Niemann's case, people have been all over his games and many such comparisons have been made. 2) So the 100% correlation in Chessbase database isn't with Stockfish alone, but with any combination of a big number of engines. If you compare the moves against 50 different engines there's bound to be one of them suggesting your move, so it's much easier to get 100% correlation here. So 100% correlation here doesn't mean Niemann is playing exactly like Stockfish, it means he is playing a move at least one of the numerous engines is suggesting. Basically this proves absolutely nothing and no conclusions can be drawn from this.

That's because he is

@@frostdemon6787 You think he cheated on the birth certificate?

@@Sasoridellasabbia maybe that’s when he found out he’s skilled at something

@@Sasoridellasabbia Oh shoot sorry I thought you said Hikaru, anyways yeah Hans looks really old for a 19yr

Short telomeres

Yep. If you consistently make an effort to think through very complex positions then it's only natural that you can talk about it from the top off your head, sometimes too fast for other people to catch up (seriously, look at all the WCC interviews post game)

This is a big red flag tbh. Any other player of his level being interviewed, and they will rattle off like 3 15 depth alternate lines they considered before going with the move they did, or they will be like “yea I’m a huge idiot for playing that because after (insert 20 move line where there are -0.3 after)”

Yeah because even if he is fed say the entire top engine line for 5-6 moves, he will instinctively stop considering other moves and just try to figure out why this line is actually that great OTB. And then when say Alejandro Ramirez asks him but what about this or that move in this position then he has no clue why this is good/bad because he never thought about it for too long and even if he did he does not have the understanding of a super GM to come up with the full proper analysis why this move is good/bad.

@@Devilfish6666 Yes His interviews are suspicious without question But these past events are far, far more damning, I am now nearly certain Hans has cheated OTB in the past That’s still not proof whether or not he cheated in the Sinquefield cup, and we will probably never know for sure But it’s clear Hans is a serial cheater

Yeah man, some people are just bad at speaking in front of cameras, i would fold for sure

This is honestly sad to see. I love Hans postgame interviews so much.

Haters gonna hate

You're so certain he is magically as good as a chess engine?

@FLIXX REMIXX’D very obvious sarcasm r/woooosh

Anomaly identified but still no practical proof of foulplay.

He clearly cheated? Because of some statistics? That is the response of an ignorant human who operates based on assumptions. Innocent until PROVEN guilty, not suspected. I won't pretend like I know this man cheated because I don't know it, and neither do you. People like you are the reason innocent people have died throughout history because someone wanted to go after someone else before they had absolute proof.

The math and logic in this video are just plain wrong....

Really? Why dont you explain genius

@@Awardeez Theyre not matching his moves to a single engine but what ever engine happened to match hos move that turn. There is an assumption that Magnus is and always will be better than everyone else. Niemann has played live games since against top players and won, there has been no drop in his skill , as you would expect if he wasnt cheating anymore, u less you think his cheat method is so undetectable that he continues to use it even umder extreme scrutiny. It stretches the vounds of belief. Magnus did something cowardly when he slyly acused him. As for cheating in the past when he was a kid, ive seen videos of magnus as an adult feedingovers to a kid so he could beat a chess hustler, ie cheating. so there goes that argument too.

@@stoppernz229 just curious what extreme scrutiny are you talking about? Bc at the Magnus game they didn't even have metal detectors ...

only when he feels that tingle

@@eatingjr1805 only when he's vibing.

Only when his batteries don't die.

To be fair, statistics and stochastics are like, predicated on that

only when he’s really plugged in

Would be fine, if the accent of the youtuber wouldn't be so intelligible

​@Rvve Duio Wow! a smart comment ! worth repeating many times!

This engine correlation is something new and innovative and so folks still calibrate how to interpret the percentages. 66 still stacks update as Super GM and world class performance...

@Rvve Duio That's not a good joke regarding this situation: A good joke would be like "Why the frustration Mr. Hikaru? After all, just 5 seconds ago you said "2648. I wasn't a very good player back then" :) Or: Hikaru's new nickname: "Mr.-best-game-ever-66". (already circulating amongst the members of the small SuperGMs society) Or: After the video session Nakamura turns the laptop off. Lowens the screen Lowens his stare... (Slow moves). "Damn... I thought I knew this game well... My whole life is a lie... " :) Or: next morning,after a bad sleep with nighmares, he wakes and goes to the bathroom. Goes to the mirror. Looks to the mirror. Talks to the mirror: "Sixty Six? SIXTY SIX? You're just a HUSTLER! Not a Grandmaster!" :) etc Ps. yeah i know i have a rich imagination...

@@giovanni_7191 shut up u r the one who is cringe there

Hikaru is also just good because of his play style

nice checkmark

Same

Same

Hahaha naligaw ka boss

Kamatis check! HAHAHAHHAHHA

Prep. hans just has a perfect memory.

@@edntz prep doesn't go 45 moves

Pov: u dont know what prep is

In theory, if you are capable of memorizing all possible moves played till move 45 by your opponent and also memorize all moves to make yourself, then it does go to move 45. But of course, my comment was merely a joke.

@@edntz hans just know 10^123 position....more than atoms in the universe.....this theory makes sense

Fischer was praised by the engines Then there's Hans who's vibing with them

@Silent Man I've heard they are comparing engine moves to Hans database now to double check engines accuracy...

What you are saying it’s just not true. It is about opponents, Ill give you example. If you play a noob and he gives his pieces for free of course computer move will be taking the piece, so does gm move. But when the opponent does not makes mistakes it’s way more difficult to find out the engine move.

@@Sugarrushhh90 You are comparing patzers to GMs.

@@dannygjk i am telling you that you don’t understand and I am explaining so you can understand. Do you understand?

Magnus put his reputation on the line by doing this. That's what it took to get somebody who has been cheating for years caught. There really needs to be a lifetime ban for guys like Hans.

possibly but it was also certainly a very frustrating loss for Magnus regardless, seeing as he was about to reach his long-time goal of 2900 and losing to a lower rated player was a big setback

@@grottphd9090 he's gonna get his points back when Hans gets caught with his stockfish buttplug

@@chrimony he was caught, it was just shoved under the carpet

@@andriuscibas What source or evidence do you have for that?

"Looks like i fucked myself, literally" H. Niemann, 2022

Literally!!!

Lol

They found the beads. Had the Tesla T engraved on them.

Are you referencing the vibrator that’s up his butt sending him signals?

He is still quite young... it's not surprising that he is improving a lot in his late teens and early 20s

He is playing so many more games than all other gm's and his games are all much harder analysed. All this correlation is not a proof of anything. If Nieman studies more from stockfish moves, than he will play more like an engine by feel. All of the bests play mostly by feel and than calculate lines they see. Like Hikaru said, once you see it it's obvious. They(old gms, like Hikaru) have a problem cause when Hikaru was learning his 'feel' engines were not available. I think that we will see a big raise in these '100%' players as chess naturally evolves.

@@SchimbaChannelthe Dewa Kippas strat, learn from the engines.

@@SchimbaChannel He's not playing more than the top 20 FIDE bro and it's not more hard analysed

@@hexillionvitry4762 show me who exactly from top 20 FIDE attended as many open tournaments as Hans. I'll wait.

I feel bad for doubting Magnus on his accusations

Maybe he is the best chess player of all time. Just Kidding.

That's unbelievable...

@@bobtheslayer561 It is impossible not unbelievable.

@@Shipdacheese no its not impossible, its impossibly unprobable

@ Hans's rise through rating has been meteoric. He has games where he looks like an idiot and games (a lot of em) with 100% accuracy. His style has baffled pretty much all players who simply do not understand his moves. Can you imagine top GM's being baffled on some of his moves? On top of all this, he is being accused by Carlsen whom i never seen to behave like this. If this were Hikaru most people wouldn't bat an eye. If Hans is cheating he will be found eventually unless he has some sort of under the skin implant or something because all eyes will be on him and his games. Ofc he still just might be a genius and will become the strongest player in history in the years to come. We'll see but it's never a good idea to be put in this position...where you are either a genius or a cheater because one is more likely than the other.

Yea great comparison, very fascinating

And like your dad he'll still kick your ass. 😄

LMAO

It's funny because he's probably been using Chessbase for 20 years or so. It's the standard program that's used by all professional players.

Thank you

Be warned though, that statistics are not intuitive. While the "number of games played at 100% best engine moves" is a really important number, the "how many games in a row" segment was a very big "no no" in statistics - you can essentially "prove" anything by selecting the right sequence. It might be true that Hans cheated a lot in those games, but it also might not be. But it does prove that Hans is better at playing exactly like an engine, than any other player we've seen.

@@tokeivo it's not a statistical proof, it's just 'laymans logic proof' and that's good too. You would expect that someone who cheats in such a poor way (generating those 100% and 90%+ outliers) would simply sometimes be tempted to turn cheats on for a period of time. The fact that he has a streak is sort of convincing if you believe he cheated in the first place. It's not basis for cheating on its own, her math is wrong, but it looks like thing human did, to turn on cheats for 5 consecutive tournements, then turn it off.

@@thenukeduke6949 that's... pretty much exactly what I said, isn't it?

Considering his game against Magnus, we should have expected miraculous preparations from Hans.

What lube does he prep with?

@@Zeromus725 lube is cheating Hans don't cheat ;)

@@AB-dd4jz Lube isn't cheating, it's a perfectly reasonable tool to reduce friction

4.5 inch prep

This is such a good point.

Well said. This isnt caught red handed but Ill be damned if it isnt right next to it.

Chessbase's correlation stats do not only consider stockfish but as many engines at as many settings as people cared to compare the game with. In Niemann's case people have been all over his games and many such comparisons have been made. This will push the correlation score way up.

@@zetacrucis681 All the way up to 100% right? I mean magnus and hikaru, probably barely anyone has ever run their games through.

Did you not notice that even in the supposedly 100% games, Hans did not play exactly like Stockfish? A good example is the ...Kb7 move that Hikaru spent some time over. Stockfish actually recommends ...Rh5 there but some lesser engines (Deep Fritz was one) suggest Kb7 *at this time control*. If you were to extend the analysis time beyond 600, most likely the lesser engines would see ...Rh5 too. The final number you get is dependant on the parameters you choose and the hardware you are running it on. I am not saying there is nothing potentially suspicious here, far from it, but I do think it needs further analysis, particularly as I trust Ken Regan somewhat more than what we are seeing here.

It's definitely a big tell

Doesn’t mean anything

​​@@nictamer8754it means that you did something because someone told you to do so and you blindly followed without understanding what you were doing 😂 Hans is so full of himself. Usually GMs remember their great games and can explain again and again after years how great they played them. Hans never does that.

I'd rather see them hire people attempting to cheat personally.

There's already been an analysis that showed Hans's rating in over the board tournaments that were broadcast versus not broadcast. Huge difference.

Good idea!

@@gaboelexo *Well of course St Louis said that. "We investigated **_ourselves,_** our contest, and security checkpoints and found no wrongdoing".*

@@gaboelexo Imagine them admitting that their security is a joke.

2. Hans had the greatest performance in the chess history according to her data.

3 rd would be that the algorithm is wrong. But 2 and 3 are just not likely at all. I mean he is the same age as Firouzja. Everyone would have talked about Niemann if he would really be that good.

@@Infiltator2 Everyone *is* talking about Hans …

nah, 100% Korelation in 45 moves is impossible. Not even for the best performance of his life. Hikaru, in the best performance of his life got to 80% in fewer moves.

I'm thinking the algorithm is wrong and the games he got 100% the opponents had very low scores dipping down to the 18%. Just like why Fischer had such a high %, because his opponents were worse back then. The one with 45 moves and 65% from the opponent is very sus but in my mind he's innocent until proven guilty.

The funniest part is how there are many people, who obviously don't understand chess, statistics, or math, who still think that Hans is innocent.

@@ncs9753 I don't get the proof that he's not just a genius player, like what I am gathering here is that when a genuine genius will show up he can be called a cheat and thrown out for his extreme accuracy (or her). That's just stupid.

Someone has!

@@RassionellMaddman I think it also has to do with his behavior and the inconsistency of his play. Firstly, he has a track record of proven cheating in hundreds of online games. Secondly, he’s completely unable to provide analysis of his outstanding games, eg that against Magnus Carlsen. Finally, his OTB play is inconsistent, where some games he plays perfectly and others completely incompetent.

The problem is that you don't compare Niemann results with the results of other players. It's sad to see that you believe this ridiculous video, that is filled with big methodological mistakes. Yosha's "analysis" has no value at all. She never compares Niemann's results with other players results. Carlsen and Caruana, for example, in their World Championship Match, were almost constantly over 95% accuracy, in each game.

@ He said correlations, not accuracy.

How ironic indeed.... The chess really does speak for itself...

@@Stain3610 chess speaks for itself

The chess has to speak for itself because Niemann can't understand his own moves.

I can't wait for chess to testify against Hans 🤣

@@boxofcans461 chess speaks for itself

Ah you fucker 😂 made me spit coffe on my pc monitor

😂😂😂

the best players in the world at their peak are not even close to hans 😂🤣

@@victor6010 even the publicly know cheater not even close to hans

The answer is obvious. Stockfish is getting all its moves from Hans using an earpiece.

I got a phd in youtube commenting and from my expertise I can conclude that: Stockfish is probably not a human, probably.

🙏 i argue something similar. even tho it looks bad, i think it is bad precedent to start talking about this stuff before a more rigorous analysis of data has been made.

Yeah, this is something a lot of people don't seem to get. Magnus loves great play. He really likes when a player fights and finds a way to best him. Sure, he doesn't like to lose. But I've always seen him give credit. This time, it's different and we all know why.

Minus Carlsen knows nothing. Minus Carlsen is a bad loser. That's all. His behavior is despicable.

So option 1) Hans has the most advanced (and secret) over the board cheating mechanism ever invented by mankind: anal beads. He has been training for years to use this to beat the best players at all time controls, undetectably. Option 2) Magnus played bad because he was suspicious and distracted and lost to a 2700 rated player.

@@grumpytroll6918 Why are these the only two options?

@@commonsense1527 please add options you think are missing

Fabi, Nepo, HIkaru, Levon, etc have all insinuated that Hans is a cheater already... it's not just Magnus.

Doesn't matter. Either it is evidence or it's speculation. All this is speculation no matter how you spin it..

People have been put behind the bars with far less circumstantial evidence.

@@Darth-Shadow this is evidence. It is not conclusive evidence, but it certainly is not speculation only

69 like the sex position. 🤣High five!

Kasparov most like cheated with engines to lower his % to 69% lmao

@@lrvz7187 😂

Gary Casper*

Can you bet on chess players?

@@hackeronte7970 You can bet on anything

What sites to look for though?

That's what I thought. Follow the money. See if any big / regular payments are going out from Hans to somebody else and you will know who's on the other side of that stockfish.

What a stupid comment by a coward who likes to slander people without any proof, like in the worst dictatorships.

Stockfish 14 is so good😂😂😂

He just had a good gut feeling about things.

It is not 100% accuracy, get your fact straight.

@@Lewd_Fox it speaks for itself?

@@davenoscope3836 No, it’s better. It’s 100% correlation with the best move of at least one of the main engines. 100% accuracy just means that you pick one of the top moves, not necessarily the best move.

6/10ths seems wrong. We should compromise at 3/5ths.

@@aaronwarwick9966 wow.... that is a dark joke

@@aaronwarwick9966 Jesus christ

@@steeal_wizzard4399 what’s the joke

my 8th grade history lesson has prepared me for this one joke

Not really surprising tbh trans hate is pretty prevalent in general, then you take a community with a disproportionally higher population of "insecure incel-inclined" people in it, the outcome is as expected :(

Been trying to report comments on this video too but not sure it will mean anything. It seems to range from the closed-minded to straight up hate speech and dehumanisation. And the video is just about looking at the statistics of chess. People are mad.

Oh and don't forget... never cheat... I'm not talking about what Carlsen said, I'm talking about how Hans literally admitted to getting caught cheating online, then banned again from the site for underplaying how many times he actually got caught cheating.

Also, what are the odds of such a genius having been a self confessed two-time cheater who also happens to have a coach with a history of cheating.

Yep. Interviews are soooo suspicious.

The interview after he beat Magnus was even more suspicious and dubious. His explanation consists of miracles and feelings. No actual explanation or intention of his moves. In fact, at one point he "forgot" one of the moves he made.

@@susbedo9258 People like Hikaru are able to recall the exact moves that were played in OTHER people's games as well as their own. Yet Hans can't even recall a recent game in which he managed to win against the World Champion and one of the best-- if not the best -- chess players of all time?

That does not mean anything (fixed grammar, thank you for pointing out) actually. Several great brains are well known not to be able to speak properly on the problems they have worked with. The mathematician Grigori Perelman who solved the Poincare conjecture is told to going to the whiteboard and rambling incoherently on something tangentially related raising eyebrows with "is this really the guy who did it?". From my behalf I would like to see more conclusive evidence of him cheating in Sinquefield than how he talked in the interview or Magnus' impressions

Thats exactly what happened when he said "I dont have to show variations" after sacking a piece xD.

Holded..?

i holded stockfish for 26 moves 😂

opa tu aqui akakakak

you literally stole this comment

@@Poseidon-oz9pg 😂😂😂

Spot on comment! Also, look at his meltdowns. He is unstable. What do you get when you mix a high ego with unstable, uncontrollable emotion? And an admitted cheat? You get Hans-“Stockfish in the flesh”…

@@lopezmt5 Stockflesh is actually such a good name for an edgy cyborg :o

all he had to do was spend time with his beads.

And what is it??

@@ivanalkemist that he’s undoubtedly a cheater

@@blizyon30fps86 good play isn’t proof

@@ivanalkemist that with 99.99999% certainty he is cheating

@@__Jesus_is_God__ This isn’t good play. It’s otherworldly play

I'd say that's why he hated engine so much. It's like you are good by default than others and then technology comes in and ruins his first 20 move advantage completely. No one would be happy in that situation.

Magnus would destroy Fischer. Not to take anything away from him, but the game now and how it's taught have evolved immensely over the last decades. Especially with the help of computers to formulate theory and tactics. Prime Magnus vs Prime Fischer with the same training as Magnus. Now that would be interesting.

Opponent strength matters. The best moves may be more limited if your opponents are worse.

Remember when your opponents play bad moves it is easier to find the best move. When your opponents tend to play the same openings all the time it is easier to study lines and memorize the best moves for those lines. There are way more openings /lines being played than ever before because players now have a way of knowing if a line is good without spending dozens or hundreds of hours of prep on that new idea. I would be extremely shocked if those were not extremely important factors for this sort of a statistic.

Another thing to consider is that at the highest level, it's often times better to purposefully play a non computer move to pull your opponent out of prep and into a line you know better.

Goes to show how difficult it is to prove over the board cheating.

how was he receiving the intel? How can somebody cheat over the board? Deep ear piece? mouth piece?

@@lolmouf modern ones use bunch of complicated ways. These guys after all even if cheaters are genuises. Like last time they caught somebody who was receiving moves using aa morse code device in his shoe. Basically all they need is one device anywhere on their body capable of receiving signals and vibrating corresponding to move recieved. Hence the anal beads idea.

@@lolmouf Morse code and a vibrating butt blug

@@Franchifis 😂😂😂

Maybe they fit going in but not coming out.

you gotta find the beads first

45 moves 100% accurate is the nail in the coffin on this discussion. Don't know if he cheated vs Magnus, but Hans has lost all credibility.

29:19 Hikaru after he finds me over a body in amongus

@@deez5396 if this was not a reply comment I guess it would've got like 1k+ likes😂

@@lokeshkumar-ff8kx lol even 5 is generous imo

@@deez5396 and for me the 1 like that you gave is enough

I was kinda waiting for someone to bring this up (not sure how much these two communities overlap but honestly it’s probably a fair amount). Both being “caught” with mathematics and probabilities and it makes for such interesting analyses. Dream’s case had pure luck but Hans’ case has pure skill involved and that makes it a lot less simple to analyze and put one simple probability on (like dream’s 1/20 sextillion odds)

then "noooo that wasn't really me who cheated my coach slipped anal beads into my ass while I was sleeping I was completely unaware of it !!!"

@@zeusthedrumlord547 dream was caught by much more solid evidence. There are issues with the maths in this

@@zeusthedrumlord547 Dream literally admitted to cheating lmfao

"Oh, I forgot to remove my anal vibration system that I have installed" same as Dream " accidently" forgetting to remove some folders. I don't know if he actually cheated and this anal bead theory is very wild guess 🗿

This! ⬆️⬆️⬆️

You can also just do a histogram for Nieman's data and see if it's normally distributed or not. Edit: I checked. It's not normally distributed.

You could be cheating and have a normal distribution

@@aqdjbcr you would need a computer to tell you when to make bad moves. Not likely but in theory in 2022 it’s possible.

@@idahogunslinger263 Super gms can definitely tell on their own when to cheat or not

It’s still not all that incriminating. Yosha definitely was not doing a fair analysis by comparing only a handful of Hans’ games to the general average of other GMs. Its easy to exaggerate with statistics.

@@chloegpt He had multiple games at 100%. Dude definitely has those beads up his bum.

@@chloegpt The problem with your argument is that Yosha didn't cherry pick. The engine correlation of all of Hans's games were shown. Yosha just specifically emphasized how many games Hans had with 100% accuracy. Considering how young he is (therefore how few tournaments he's played relative to players like Hikaru and Magnus), he shouldn't even have 1 game at 100% engine correlation that isn't just theory, or just a few moves out of theory. Even if Hans was truly brilliant and played better than Stockfish or any other engine the engine correlation would be below 100. The only way to get perfect correlation is to play only what an engine suggests. I'm specifically stating engine correlation rather than accuracy because most super gms play at 80-100% accuracy, most 90% in classical. However even with that high of accuracy they'd still probably only have about 70% engine correlation. That's why the fact that Hans has so many 100% engine correlation games is so damning. His true rating would have to be 3500-3800 to achieve that, which is extremely unlikely because he would have won every single game he's played recently

@@chloegpt Wait until you find out how fraud is detected through statistics. Benford's law and Zipf's law have been incriminating enough when looking to see if firms have fudged up their numbers. And he's not just evaluating a "handful", it's literally all games from 2019 until now.

@@joes9131 yeah man, like you say statistics are not a "vibe" They are math. Math doesn't lie

The problem is that GMs are studying engine play and learning the ideas behind a lot of those previously non-human seeming moves. It is especially the case with super-GMs.

This is such a great idea! Much better than the z-score commonly used

@@inthefadeI disagree. The comment was not about excellent moves suggested by computers, but “non-human” moves. A chess game can really be seen as a dialogue, you can read the intent behind moves, you can tell the personality of the player through them. A non-human move is purely based on deep calculation and ignore this organic aspect of a game. All GM can tell a weird move when it doesn’t reflect this, so an anomaly detection algorithm trained on human games vs computer games could identify such moves.

Facts

If you were going to say something this unoriginal you could've just called him a boomer and left it at that.

He had 100% on a 45 move game

This engine excludes theory from the analysis

Hans played better than freaking Bobby fisher on his streak

@@vincentjiang6358 Not only this, but he also played better in a much more competitive era. It's easy to have 100% accuracy against total monkeys like me, it's insanely hard against those GM monsters.

Yes, I was thinking along the same lines. It would be interesting to analyse the top 100 chess players’ games and determine how many moves into the game they sustained their 100% accuracy. The ones who went deepest probably have the highest ELO ratings, thus proving Fischer’s premise that success is book-memory dependent.

So simple are you joking?

@@johnnybambam141 He's not joking. I also don't know.

Some have speculated he used a device in his sock called "sockfish" which is a cheating device where they get moves from "Stockfish" in their socks via morse code vibrations. And can communicate by tapping a button in Morse code back to the device to tell the device the moves made on the board.

You can see when they were waving the wand on Hans, he got nervous and started fidgeting when they were waving the wand by his feet.

@@johnnybambam141 It's so simple, no one can catch it or prove it. Memes aside.

Yeah how does he pull off those beads is a mystery

Bcz if you cannot prove that then he ain't a cheater

​@@aniketprasad3128 No. Proof beyond a reasonable doubt. This is already BEYOND a reasonable doubt. The "HOW" isn't needed to establish that ..

@@FoieGras it's all circumstantial right now that to statistical. Statistical analysis can support or reject a hypothesis at best. Cannot establish shit. But yeah good for validation.

@@aniketprasad3128 "if you cannot prove that then he ain't a cheater" is one of the dumbest takes I have seen.

how tf did you lose in 6 moves? were you not watching the board?

@@newt2120 I didn't; the opponent did!

yeah I'm like 1450 in lichess(blitz) and i have quite a lot of 90% and even some 100% games, but thats because I get paired vs someone low that blunders mate on less than 10 moves and stuff like that, and also on the lichess % its counting opening moves, wich in this video they are not counted, so its not really "100%" games if youre just playing opening moves

only 39 more moves of perfection to be as good as hans!

chessbase engine correlation accuracy is calculated completely differently than online websites obviously.

every good poker player is cheating by this logic

@@Fred-tz7hs Not comparable at all.

Maybe he is just better and Magnus can't accept that. And maybe he didn't had to concentrate because Magnus played one of his worst games ever on that day? I doubt all of this but who knows. Some people are not ready to loose versus certain people. They will not accept it and they will try to convince everyone that they are right. Like Donald Trump as an example

The idea that he didnt seem to be concentrating is dumb as fuck and is only barely half possible to kinda tell if ur playing him. Stfu

@@Fred-tz7hs This is basically the opposite of true. The problem with poker at the highest level is the excessive tanking and spending a ton of time on trivial decisions.

No, it’s the opposite. You would expect few games to “fit” an engines behavior. Unless of course they were cheating, or otherwise behaving exactly like an engine, then they’d be approaching the similarity of an engine more often.

You would expect to see a threshold, which is what we do see around 60-70%, or similarity to an engine … it’d be similar to saying how close are your essays to ChatGPT, you’d never expect to see anything frequently over 80%, tho perhaps occasionally a few that randomly are over that.

Exactly, it’s a good example of “overfitting” which happens in stats / ML. You wouldn’t expect such consensus unless it’s “fit” to the engines perspective.

Someone said in the stream chat that magnus has a 100% correlation game aswell.

Arjun has a 100% game, but it's a 11 moves games, not a 45 moves games

@@ryanrodriguez7664 of course he has, just check his rapid vs Hans. 3 moves, 100% correlation.

Well below 15 move game 100% correlation probably possible. 45? No fucking way.

@@adriendebosse6941 ty for correcting me- just makes hans look even worse lmao

Ladder mates are good for climbing rating 🙃