I'm not new to the bike world but I can really appreciate the knowledge that Mike is sharing with the young guns. Vintage Bikes are in desperate need of saving . This is our history and Mike has earned a spot in it. Thank you Brother Man
You have to appreciate Mike. He knows his Harleys, he is thorough, speaks in a clear and patient manner, and is a real biker. I've known some similar fellows who had a wealth of knowledge but not only would you be obligated to to comp them for their time, but finding them with the time to sit and explain procedures, and the proper way to do things was impossible. Harleys, especially shovelheads and earlier, are almost never rock stock by the time they reach you. They have a different cam, solid lifters, after market carburetor or maybe even a stroker kit. These things make using the factory repair manual hit and miss. I see Mike mentioning these possible mods where relevant. I own a shovel. I got it from a douchebag who threw together a motor that had sucked a valve..and then traded me. I ended up putting a top end in it. I was using the manual as my guide and referring to it often as it was first HD engine tear down. So, I replaced the heads, cam, lifters, pistons, new rings, and had the cylinders honed. I re-assembled it, and it ran solid with the exception of the oil pouring past the pushrod tube seals. This nearly drove me to madness until I realized the it had a stroker kit. A stroked motor has an oil relief hole at the base of the cylinder, a stock shovel has it in the cylinder wall. The base gaskets had blocked the holes that allow the oil back into the crankcase from the top end. DOH. A huge learning experience for me. Mike, thank you for your knowledge! Priceless.
I hope Mr. Munny finds this answer to his question. The tickler has two functions. It is a tickler when your finger blocks the end of the tube extending down out of the pump. That tube is also a "float vent." The fuel is overflowing in the float chamber because the float valve is no closing. Remove yhe float chamber, clean the valve, set the float level and reassemble. If you need instructions, on that SU, call: Ben Kudon at American Prime Manufacturing (562) 889-8665. Tell him I said hello.
Thanks Mike ..My Old Scooters Love you all there...You all is Number one... Hey Do a Harley Davidson Hummer Build.....I have 8 Hummers 125 cc and 165 cc I'm Working on.....all in defferent stages..... Thank you for being there...
Don't have any of those here. But they certainly are cool. Be sure your timing is set right. I remember, when I was a kid and my buddy's Hummer hiccupped at a stoplight and the motor reversed itself. When he let the clutch out, he backed into a car.
I needed this video! I need to help my son put one in on the Family shovel as I call it. Rebuilt several times by his uncle, it’s an heirloom so to speak. Thank You
I think a Shovelhead is a wonderful "Heirloom," and we often refer to bikes around here, that have been in the family for many years as, "Family Pets."
Mike I just bought one of them right angle screwdrivers at a bumper to bumper auto parts stores probably not the quality you have but there out there always enjoy your videos
Regarding the smaller seal, if you take a miniature flat blade screwdriver and pry with the side of the blade out against the inside of the metal portion of the seal, the part facing you, the thin metal will tear relieving most of the tension against the bore and the seal will pop right out. The tool will never have to touch the shaft or bore.
. . You are AWESOME Buddy . . You are my Go To and any Time I ask My Shovel Learned Brothers something . . They ALWAYS Say Go To Mike . . Wish I could drop by and Shake yer Hand . . But being a Canuk and unable to cross over these days . . well I walk across the room . . to get my Hat . . Put it On . . Then Tip It To You . . .
Hi again mike, when tapping in the mainshaft seal with pvc pipe or whatever tool you choose to use does it ride against the seal itself or the edge of the spacer? Thank you.
Glad I found this video, I have one of these trans for my shovel project, great to have some insight on freshening it up , only worked on the newer 5 speeds
Big difference. The five speed is just "stck it and plug it in." The four speeds are a different program. You would actually like the earlier ones even better.
Thanks for the response it has been changed to belt drive , primary and final . Looks like im replacing a lot of seals , while im there . Another case of synthetic products 🤔
Today's seals are actually much better, better materials. With a belt drive, it's easier. Trans seal, motor seal, and clutch nut seal. Not bad. Don't forget, if the seal has a spacer running on the inside of it, replace the spacer along with the seal.
So the first 2 minutes to me is the most important step of this process. That cover around the seal always needs to be replaced no matter what. Like Mike said the seal makes a microscopic edge on damn thing, once warn it will never seal again
Great upload Mike. I bet you can make one of those screwdrivers or similar from a bit of round bar or flat bar. its basicly a z shape with flat ends not hard at all. Someone with a CNC machine could run a line of them for you to sell.
Another awesome video 👍🏼. Am I understanding correct, the transmission seal tool is the same as the engine crank seal tool? If it’s a two in one tool who sells it?
Thanks for all the help. Your videos are great. I have one question. I have a 1981 lowrider I was changing the transmission oil. Someone has put gear oil in it. Is that ok to put back in it. My book call for Harley transmission oil.
Harley always recommends their products. I would too. But, there are many good transmission lubricants. I generally use a good 85/140 Gearlube (ie. "translube, gear oil, gearlube," all the same).
Is this the same procedure for a 83 FXSB 4 speed dry clutch? So to get that inner small seal out you are prying from the bottom up resting the hook on the shaft? Great videos man really appreciate your time making them.
Pretty much. Sometimes hard to get the seal out. Be careful not to damage the gear. Take your time. The bushing in the main drive gear could also be worn out. If so, that's a complete teardown of the trans. But, that's not very common unless this is a very worn transmission. I've tried to answer all of the questions in both of your comments. I hope this helps some.
@@pacificmike9501 Really appreciate the response. I'm going down the line on your videos trying to get comfortable with the procedure. This bushing you refer too. This isn't the one that the transmission main seal rides on is it? Previous owner replaced these seals but didn't replace the main seal bushing that you talked about that wears a groove into it. That something I can still get from Harley? I'm seeing there's something called a "super nut" wha t do you think about these?
Mike - What does the Super Nut do that the two shaft seals do not? are they all used together? I have an '81 FXB Belt Drive and need to replace seals as leaking fluid caused my clutch plates to stick together.
The early four speeds, I'd have to look it up, didn't have a seal in the main drive gear (onto the main shaft and into the gear. The supernut helped seal that up. And it was just another way to seal more and better. The nut, however uses space, so you have to be careful. Nothing is perfect, and if the bike sits too long, the plates may stick a little. Routine servicing is a good thing. Again, "old technology."
No, not at the moment. However, the way to get it out, is to very carefully dig it out. It's not easy. I use different picks and sometimes, my little right angle screwdriver as a pry bar. You do it a little at a time so as to not scratch the transmission mainshaft or damage the gear. There are tools to tap the new one into place. I have several different sized pieces of tubing for installation.
Man, this is exactly what I've been looking for. My transmission leaks severely when it runs. I have to top off the transmission after about two days of regular riding. Also, it gets all over the final drive chain and throws oil all over me, so I have an old white t-shit I use for riding with a streak of oil on my left side haha! Hopefully this will solve the issue entirely. Looking forward to having a bike that stays relatively clean. By the way, Mike... Do you know of what I should do about leaking rocker shaft end bolts on a shovelhead? My front rocker cover bolts leak a little bit. Not a big deal, but again, it's messy and it tends to eventually drip onto my exhaust, leaving black stains that have to be scoth-brited off regularly. I got my oil sumping problem sorted out, and once I get this all figured out, I should have a bike that hardly leaks.
Everything should be "felt." The bushing in the main drive gear and the main drive bearing. In fact, in a perfect world, we would disassemble and inspect everything. Not always practical. In the world of old Harley Davidson or any infinitely rebuildable machinery, we rebuild when necessary. It's a tough call sometimes, but, that's what "wear limits" are about in your service manual. Thanks. This is something I need to address more and more.
Well I have a problem. I am down to the spacer and it will not come off the shaft. It spins free and comes back and forth about a 1/16 of an inch but will not come off.
Itty bitty prybars. Move it back and forth. Use penetrating oil. Be careful to not damage the case or the shaft. You're getting there. Yes, it's maddening.
Hey mike I've searched online for replacement seal for my cam shaft . 83 fxwg. No vids on that! Q - was which side of the cam oil seal goes inwards ...the cup side or smooth side . Also I noticed a small hole in about where the seal goes. How far in should I knock the seal in? Till it touches the back ? Or just flush with the ignition cup...thanks mike your a great teacher!
Check your parts book or even a parts catalog. Yes, when we get into the "late" Shovelhead years, you'll find different stuff, which includes a "flat spacer washer." I believe that's what you're speaking of.
I forgot which way the transmission push rod goes in. one end is flat and the other end is a little smaller for the last two inches or so. Can't find any picture or mention in the manual
I think that skinny end goes into the throwout bearing. I hope we understand each others descriptions. Better pull the cover and see if you have a throwout bearing floating around in there. What year is it?
is there a playlist showing how this rotary top transmission is taken apart in spected and reassembled? Seemes like all the onces ive seen have been for the ratchet top.
Go to our RU-vid Homepage and click on the word, "videos." They will all come up with pictures and you should be able to find it. I usually prefer the ratchet lid. Consequently, not much on the rotary tops.
@@pacificmike9501 seems like that's the case across the board. not a ton of information about them. but that's what I've got currently so here we are. thanks.
Don't mean to short-change you. The ratchet lid is far more desireable. But the lids don't interchange. It's a different case that goes with the rotary top.
Mike that small second seal you pressed in, does that same seal go into the earlier models I have a 76 4 speed. I dod nor see a aeal there. Also you brother video on the earlier 4 speed did not show this seal. I hope it is not used, I already completed the job.
Hey Mike long time subscriber was hoping you can help me I have a 1980 rotary top transmission like this one you are working on was wondering what might cause it to leak from behind the kicker shaft? Any help appreciated
Hey Mike, thanks for your excellent videos...as the owner of a leaky 80/80 FXWG, can I ask: how far in to the case should that largest oil seal (on the spacer) go? I have been generally putting it flush with the case as I have been unable to pull the spacer out...., but i see here you are really going quite a bit deeper with yours. Should I push it in as far as it can go?
With the seal out, try and fight that spacer off. There's where the problem usually is. It's that microscopic channel worn into it by the seal. I don't think the depth of the seal (flush is okay) is that critical, but the surface of the spacer is. The seal can't locate on that spacer in the same place it did before. Good luck and thanks for watching.
Hi Mike Thanks for your videos I enjoy them, I have a 1980 fxs lowrider with mid-mount controls. I wanted to eliminate a lot of the slop in the shifter linkages to the gearbox which is a cowpie, so ran a direct rod much the same as you would with a ratchet top box. However encountered difficult shifting, hard to get neutral when previously it was easy. I'm thinking of going back to how it was with the stock setup, would you be able to explain why the stock setup although sloppy actually works better, is it because of leverage? any thoughts on this subject would be appreciated, Thanks Dave in NewZealand.
I've experienced the same problem. It's a matter of leverage required to operate that lid. If you continue with it stock, I believe there are too many pieces involved and each piece must have a small amount of clearance. With that many pieces, it becomes a lot of slop. Sadly, that's the way it works. I've gone so far as to replace every moving part from the shifter pedal, all the way into the gearbox. It was okay for a while, then it wore in and became sloppy again. I had even replaced every piece in the lid itself! I'm sure there's a genius out there who has successfully gotten one of those to work much better. I usually install a case with a ratchet top or go to a 5 or 6 speed. Or, your trans will continue to work just fine. It will just be a "sloppy shifter." I apologize for not having a better solution. Thank you.
@@pacificmike9501 Hi Mike Thanks for your prompt reply very much appreciated, I discovered that Rivera Primo put out a sealed bearing to replace the bushing that is used. It was known as part # C62 available through Cal- Products, however, it seems like their page is down and so I will go back to installing the stock linkages and pump some grease into that bushing, I can put up with a little slop to regain the nicer shifting that I had previously, once again Thanks for your Fast Reply .
Mike...got thew 83 shovelhead with leaky seal.......is it the same as this one .....and do you have any videos that take us through it from removing the primary to installing it.......thanks much
Hey Mike, do you or anyone else in the comments have any tips on getting that old spacer out? Mine seems to be stuck on. Any insight would be most appreciated.
Some times, it's a battle. Take it slow. Don't get frustrated. It will come out. Don't damage the shaft. Picks, bent little screwdrivers. Work it 'til it comes out. Don't damage the "seal surface."
It's just a right angle screw driver. Very common. Produced by people who make basic hand tools. This particular one is a Stanley, at least 60 or 70 years old. It belonged to my dad. But, there are new ones at any old tool supply.
@@pacificmike9501 Thanks Mike. I think this is why I had such a bad leak on my transmission between the spacer and main gear shaft. When I installed the last spacer, I believe I pushed it in too far which I theorize put too much pressure on the spacer so the spacer would intermittently spin or not spin with the transmission based on that pressure. This is my theory based on the marks on the spacer that are show it was spinning but not consistent that led to a build up of heat that shows as discoloration on the spacer.
Hi Mike, I just replaced the seal and spacer on my 1978 shovelhead FXE. When replacing the sprocket and tightening the sprocket nut it makes the sprocket very hard to turn. Am I doing something wrong or does it need lubrication? Thanks for your time, enjoy your informative videos,
Make sure the sprocket is right side out so that it clears the case. I tried to explain in one of the videos, that from 1977 on, the shovelhead four speeds got, at least, yearly changes. You need an open parts book and a sharp parts person sometimes, in order to get the right seal and spacer in there. The latest ones even used another spacer ring in there. Maddening at best.
@@pacificmike9501 you are absolutely correct Mike. The spacer they sold me has a smooth back the one I removed has a step on the back side. Can't seem to find one with the step.
Hey Mike - can I get your advice on the seal? There's a "double-lip" seal for sale, same part# as the regular seal but with an A (37741-67A). I'm wondering if it would install okay...I assume it's thicker than the normal seal... Any thoughts? Thank you for all the great videos!
@@pacificmike9501 Thanks Mike - ya "Genuine James" offers a double-lip and a normal seal. They also offer the same choice for the cam cover seal. Thanks for the reminder about the spacer you showed the wear mark clearly in the video, which was really helpful. Thanks again! Oh and the bike is an '81 FXWG.
Hi..I'm having a heck of a time trying to find the spacer and seal for my leaver type transmission Do you know the part numbers Plus one place said they don't know what transmission to replace it with .. thanks Joe Mitchell
What is a leaver type transmission? Tell me what you have, Year, ratchet top, Handshift top, rotary top? I'm assuming you have a Big Twin 4 speed. Is that right?
Okay. Now we know what the trans is. Now, depending on the year, you or your parts dealer should easily be able to find the part numbers for your seal and spacer. The trans is probably late 78 or newer and the proper year should get you to the right part numbers.
"Similar" is the word. The early seal you have is metal on the outside. There is a factory tool, which is basically a drilling fixture. I've the dug them out various ways, none of them pretty. For the last twenty-five years, I drill a small hole in the outward metal part of the seal. Then, I screw in a slide hammer. If the seal comes out easy (rarely), cool. If it doesn't, I drill another hole across from the first one and repeat the procedure. When it's out, clean it all carefully, don't forget to replace the spacer and the "L" key. As soon as possible, I'd like to show this, but at the moment, not yet.
. . Mike I am trying to find a part Number for The small seal that you are putting in at 4:00 minutes . . Can't seem to find it . . I am looking in V-Twin Catalogue . . ? ?
A good motorcycle gear oil. Most people I know use 85/140. These are newer developements and good products. The old manuals recommended the same oil as the engine. That was a long time ago.
Hey Mike I love your videos but I haven't seen any for rebuilding a rotary top..just the top.. which I need to do now. Lol. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you Sir
It's not too hard. Just, be thorough. They rarely fail. Take it apart. Clean it well. Be sure you "time" the gears in the lid as per the SERVICE MANUAL. Put new springs in the ratchet housing. Lube well with good grease. Carefully adjust the rotation of the ratchet housing for the nicest shifting through all the gears. Of course, inspect every piece as you go and replace anything too worn. I always replace the two springs and gaskets. I mean, this stuff is old, but the ratchet lid is probably one of Harley's best designs (just one man's opinion).
I feel dumb! I apologize. You said "rotary top," and I thought "ratchet lid." That's a completely different animal. I try not to dislike things, but, the rotary 4 speed lid is one of them. Rebuilding it is a pain. I've done it several times for people, but, at best, they are, by design, very sloppy. There are improved parts from aftermarket suppliers for the exterior controls. The inside parts are what they are. I have found, repairing them, that , if you start from the beginning and replace from the turret, all the way out, they'll get a little better. If funds allow, a ratchet lid tranny is a better way to go. But the rotary system will survive well. It's just sloppy. Again, I apologize for not reading you right.
Hey Mike, is there a trick on getting that spacer out of there? Mine doesn't want to come off, tried different approaches but it only slides out about an 1/8 of an inch
Where did u purchase new seals...would u be willing to give me dimensions of seal...I'm dealing with a shovelhead not sure on year... sitting on custom frame
I don't stock parts. If you have a metal main seal, it goes from 37 up to 79. You'll have to check the parts books. Drag Specialties, V-Twin, any of the aftermarket suppliers. Take your seal to an aftermarket shop and hand it to them. They should be able to figure it out for you. If not, what type of lid does it have? Ratchet or rotary type? You can get a gasket set or just the main seal, if you just nail down the year group.
I'm replacing the trans seal on my 73 FL. when I took the old one out there was no cork washer behind it. Should I install the new with a cork washer or not?? If I use the cork it looks like the seal will be sticking out of the case about 100 thousanths and not flush. What to do??
@@pacificmike9501 The cork came with the seal. With the cork in place I have .360 depth to outside of case. the new seal and spacer measure .480 thick. so there would be about .120 sticking out. So the main question is do I forget the cork like it was or include cork and have .120 sticking out? what are consequences of each?
@@pacificmike9501 Now I know why I'm not a Harley mechanic. After looking at the seal/spacer for the 100th time I realize the diameter of the rear of the spacer is smaller than the cork therefore fits INSIDE the cork instead of against it like I thought. So the thickness of the cork is not a problem. See you on the road.
It was getting difficult. I feel way better now. Some things get "lost in translation." I couldn't figure out what the problem was. One of the issues is that everyone sees things a little differently. Glad you got it now.
Have you ever had the spacer get stuck on the shaft? I have a sturgis that the seal came off but the spacer is stuck tight on the shaft. there was a pile of red loctite applied by the previous person who worked on it. Any tips on removal without disassembly of the transmission?
That's a tough one. Someone really messed up there. When all else fails, heat is the answer for defeating red or blue loctite. But, you'll have to be super careful not to damage the case. I'd hate to do it. I would do it, but I'd hate it. And I'm way not into hate.
@@pacificmike9501 That's what i ended up doing heat and pb blaster then, i had to bust it loose this morning with a dead blow and a narrow tip standard screwdriver. Once i got it to rotate on the drive gear i kept spinning it that way until it became free then, it pulled right off. Thank you for your input.
Would you happen to have the part numbers for those seals? I have a 1982 4 speed that needs to be repaired. Having trouble getting the correct seals. Thanks .
Go by the parts book. A 1982 4 speed uses a thin seal. I believe the factory number is 37741-82 The spacer should be 35070-82A. These are the OEM numbers. The aftermarket suppliers may use their own part numbers, but they will cross-reference to these.
@@pacificmike9501 How about the little seal on the main shaft? That one seems to be the biggest mystery to most of the resellers. I thank you for the quick reply, Your vids are really informative.
Hi Mike. Can you tell me where I can find that seal and spacer? I've been looking for it all over. I purchased one for an 82-85 tranny, but it was different than the one in the video and the one on my tranny. I'm not sure what year I'm supposed to buy. Thanks for your help and for your awesome vids!
Any of the aftermarket shops around (doesn't sound like you have any), either in your area or on the internet, deal with a large bunch of suppliers. Harley doesn't carry any of the old stuff any more. Some, but very few Harley dealers can or will help you out. Drag Specialties, Custome Chrome, Mid USA, Tedd Cycle and a whole bunch of them have online catalogues where you should be able to find parts for your specific year and model. And, as I preach, you should have both a factory service manual and a factory parts manual. When looking up parts, you can always cross reference with the Harley Davidson original part number.
@@pacificmike9501 Thanks for your reply, Mike. I have a '73 motor, but with a rotary top transmission just like the one you're working on. The seal that you installed is the exact one I'm looking for. The only problem is I can't seem to find one online just like that. I do own a service manual, but the part is different than in the manual. I'll see if I can find one locally. The only ones I find online are ones that don't have the metal o-ring in the middle. I also need the metal spacer that should be replaced like you mentioned.
You have a transmission that was made from probably, very late '78 to '86. You're going to have to get the right parts pictures. I hope the trans has the proper parts to begin with (even though they need replacing) so you can match them up. There was some changes going on in those years that makes it difficult. I remember doing some very careful matching on that trans. You never know who did what over the years.
There are things that are hard to describe in words. It is fairly common for that spacer to get stuck. Penetrating oil sometimes helps. Sometimes it has overheated and stuck. It can be quite difficult. It's a battle because, as you've noticed, there's almost no way to grab it. Picks and tiny bars and so on. Very time consuming. Once you finally get it to move, it will come out. Be very careful around the thin parts of the main gear spline. Slow and easy. I'd like to make things easy, but sometimes, they're just difficult. Again, slow and easy.
Sure. Harley used to make oversize repair studs. But, quite honestly, don't be too hard on yourself. Spacer, cork and seal, hold your mouth just right, use your favorite sealant, and maybe it will seal and maybe it won't. Practice and luck really help.
You can't just change the lid to a ratchet type. The whole case or a different trans. You can rebuild or replace the rotary top, and it will be much better. They work okay, once gone through. But "okay," is about it.
@@pacificmike9501 I couldn't find your old one, but I have other fish to fry now. I have a banana caliper on the rear, I can't find any video's on rebuilding them, I can get the brake line off the outer half, put liquid wrench on it tonight, hoping it will losen up tomorrow. HELP !
Yes. It's a lot of work. The entire primary drive must be removed to gain access. The outer primary cover, the drive (this includes the motor sprocked, clutch, and primary chain), the electric starter, if you have one, then the inner primary cover, then the transmission sprocket. We covered installation of the inner primary cover in a previous video. Perhaps we'll do a complete job to access it soon. My Panhead needs a new trans seal. I don't know what model you have, but the early models are easier to get to, especially if you have a belt drive.
