Has Cheating Ruined The GOLF SCRAMBLE Forever? 

In our scrambles, cheating was a huge problem. We usually play two 4 person teams per hole. It is required now that your scorecard is to be filled out by the opposing team and returned to you after the round. It isn't foolproof but it pretty much got rid of some of the 50's scores that people were turning in. The last tournament we played, our team was paired with the defending champions of flight 1. When we asked for their card on the first hole they refused. We called the golf course manager over and it nearly came to a fight. After a while they relented, and we exchanged scorecards. Long story short, the previous year they won with a score of - 57 - with us keeping score - 71 - Good Times. Their is no way in hell they can, did or could shoot a 57.

I learned golf while living in the Philippines. An American expat living there gave lessons at a local country club in Mindanao. He told me that it was the only place he’d ever been where millionaires would cheat to win an electric fan.

I play charitable scrambles to enjoy a laid back round with friends. I assume there will be cheaters and never plan to come close to winning.

Golf is one sport that exposes the true character of the individual. No matter how small the prize, a large portion of the contestants just can’t help themselves.

At our club one team always seems to win. They never turn in their scorecard until all the other teams have. They’ve been called out dozens of times. I only play in these scrambles to hang out with my friends, drink a little beer, laugh and have a fun time.

I stopped playing scrambles 20 years ago because of the cheating. I was arguing with the people in “my foursome “ not to cheat. The only time I played in a scramble without cheating is when they paired 2 foursomes together and made them play as an eightSome. That way groups could watch each other. The winning score was a reasonable -14 with all scratch and single hcp golfers.

I played in a scramble once where a club member accompanied each 4 some and kept score. They also acted as officials for long drive, closest to the pin etc..

I played a scramble years ago where our team shot a 57 …no cheating. One older guy in our group was so enamored with that, he asked to see the scorecard. I told him sure, just don’t forget to turn it in. When they were announcing the winners later in the clubhouse, a 58 was first place. I was puzzled by that, and I asked a guy in our group where the old guy with the card was. “I think he went home”, was the answer. He just wanted the card for a souvenir. I thought that was funny. There really wasn’t much of a prize anyway.

Some people don’t know how gimmes work. They don’t count the stroke

Absolutely, I’ve played golf for 31 years and it was like that back then. We just have fun

I don’t play scrambles anymore and I never expected to come close to winning. I always wanted to see how low below par we could score.

My employer used to sponsor a scramble that benefited a local charity and it was open to 36 teams. I was once on a team that had the lowest posted score with three teams still to turn in their scorecard. Magically, two of those three teams finished with lower scores than ours. The winning team was actually witnessed checking all the scores on the board, disappearing for about 10 minutes and then turning in the winning card….

Love the playoff idea at the end of the round vs the top two teams. A fraudulent team will get exposed real fast.

It's been like this forever. Every scramble I have played in has some team of high handicappers turning in a way under par score. Club championships are always won by a 20 handicaper who manages to shoot par the day of the tournament.

The only part of this conversation to be completely honest was at the end where you stated that you hoped folks would come back with some integrity Golf to me is and always will be something I have where I control "MY" game. Who am I playing against? ME always me. There is no room for cheaters in my game. I understand your point and appreciate the tone and messages being delivered. It is a crying shame others do not play to that same value..

As a Lifelong Golf Professional this subject matter PISSES ME OFF ! Golf Pros have been complicit in where we find ourselves now. 3 player scrambles in 6-somes. Or 4 player scrambles in 8-somes. Also, these tournaments need a handicap committee, with a Golf Professional. Handicap issues should NEVER occur. This is easy stuff to fix, and I can tell you specifics if requested. No Mulligans in scrambles. This is a highway to victory for cheaters. ALSO tournament organizers MUST get their payoff act together. These charities think that the way to make money is to take it from the Payoff. Ridiculous. Unnecessary. STUPID ! Tiny Pay-offs. No Rules Sheet. Mulligans. Goofy Shit. NONE OF THIS NONSENSE IS HELPFUL AND CONDUCIVE TO LONG TERM SUCCESS. What charities DONT COMPREHEND : There are companies and decision makers who are in control of monies designated for charity. They want competitive golf, and will return year after year. I can easily raise $10k for a charity in a 1 day event, while simultaneously paying 1/3 of the field, the Pay-off will be 100% cash, and a 100% payback to the players. But I WILL NOT ALLOW THE CHARITY TO ROB THE PLAYERS WITH MULLIGANS, OR ENTRY FEES WITH NO PAYOFF, OR GIVING UP ON COMPETITION. INCREASING THE PAYOFF CAN ELIMINATE CHEATERS BY FILLING THE FIELD WITH ACTUAL GOLFERS ! WAIT :? YOU DONT KNOW IF THERE IS A FIX FOR IT ?? Makes me furious ! Have either of you had any personal tournament operation experience. It doesn't seem like it. If you have a charity scramble that you would like to save and build into a successful pong term revenue producer, you are welcome to message me and I will give you the necessary information to have successful events.

Most charity scrambles i play in now have the best prizes in the raffle and ok prizes for the actual competition, like a box of ok ish balls etc. This is mainly because of this advanced accounting in the scoring...

In Ireland we have an interesting wrinkle for a scramble: whosever shot you are using MUST play 1st ( no placing). Makes a difference 😉

Used to play 3 or 4 scrambles a year at conventions or industry events. We had a 4 some that was made up of 2 scratch golfers and 2 bogey golfers. We were lucky that we had complimentary skills that was often successful in scrambles. We didn’t win every scramble but when we did we always had to deal with being accused of cheating. We didn’t cheat but some people are so competitive and narcissistic they can’t believe they didn’t win. We played for fun and charity, not bragging rights. Maybe that is why we did well.

There are 3 ways to play scrambles and have a complete blast. One - Play the weekly scramble at your club and have the pro set the teams with A-B-C-D players. Use the "regular" scramble rules of a club length and in the leather. Those are tons of fun and will help your game if you are a C or D because you playing with better players that you normally wouldn't have a daily game with and it isn't real pressure. Two - Play for a charity and a couple of guys set their own teams and bet each other and ignore the scramble. This is also really fun but you have to know each other and trust each other and negotiate pops per side if one team is clearly better. You might not even turn in your card to the tourney because you were just donating and the real game was the side bet. Third - Play for charity that plays at a course that you otherwise wouldn't normally get a chance to play at and simply enjoy the course without the pressure of slow play because you don't know the course and if you miss, you just pick it up. The regulars at that course are likely going to win anyway because they know the greens. If y'all are wanting a fair scramble you have to play on a team with people you don't know set by the course or director based on HCs. The problem is guys building teams with 4 A players. You need to have to have a combined HC of 36 or something like that if you want it fair. You need a rule where you have to use at least one putt and use one drive from the D player and maybe 2 from the C player. I know a 40 just a stupid score, and 47 or even 48 is stupid too when the guys are weekend hacks without a GHIN handicap, but with 4 studs and knowledge of the course, add in a buy a drive to 140 and a perfect lie on the par5s and a couple of mulligans each, those scores aren't that unreasonable. Pay a couple of NCAA players to be on your team to blast the ball off the Tee and it will be a different game for your team by making the approaches a lot closer. Scrambles usually have easy pin placements. Going low becomes reasonable because scramble scores are all about putts and if you are getting 8 runs at the par 3s by using your mulligans on a near straight 12 or 15 footer. Using mulligans in the right place is part of the strategy. You don't use them of 40 foot putts or off the Tee unless none of your balls are playable. Back when I was a member/owner of a member owned club, we played a weekly game and the club pro set the teams and we usually played 11 holes and usually at least 3 or 4 teams would be under 11. If you don't make birdie on the Par 4's you were out. The par 3's were going to be par unless you get lucky and you can get a eagles on the par 5's usually 75% of the time. Putting was difference maker and we had all new teams every week so cheaters weren't going to be something that would go over because the next week you would be on the receiving end of it.

On a 2 man scramble I holed a 105 yard wedge shot. The other team didn't see it and asked my partner "what the hell are you doing" when he walked onto the green and picked my ball out of the hole.

Thank you for the pointing out the many ways some golfer cheat to win. The prizes for winning might be more realistic and that may help some to keep their scores more realistic. Closest to the pin or longest drive have worked for us. The foursome to finish with the second or third lowest score may help some.

Many years ago I played in the annual Buick scramble which one year we made a miracle comeback to win our local club. Was an amazing experience despite not getting out of the second round which paired each group with a club pro as well as an official score keeper. Our club pro knew every player fairly well so it always seemed legitimate. One year we missed the registration and went to another club. We saw people on the course cheating. Moving balls out of the rough, taking gimmies, hitting from the wrong tee… the final scores were ridiculous. I could see why that national tournament didn’t last much longer after that. It was a shame as it always was a highlight of the year.

Yes, yes and yes! Too many stories to tell. One is we had a big money skin game two man scramble. When we were doing the skins that were worth 3000.00 each. One group had birdied the # 1 handicap hole. It is a 400 dog leg right that you need a 250- yard drive to even see the green, then it is over a pond to a small green with lots of break. The guys who said they birdied are both 20s who can't drive the ball 225 let alone have a perfect drive and perfect second shot and make the putt even if you gave them 100 tries. The kicker is they were playing by themselves as a group did not show. We had scratch golfers who bogeyed the hole. We had no way to prove they didn't and they kept the $$$$

This is an old problem and nobody can fix it but the club. I can share from my own experience. Sandbaggers (good players with high handicaps) should be known to the pro. If you get out on a muni course then there is not much hope. If you play a tourney without a handicap you still have the issue of flights. I've seen ridiculous scores for the 1st/2nd flight better than the championship flight.

When I was a kid I played on a scramble team consisting of me, my uncle Jeff, my dad, and my fathers best friend from high school. They didn’t drink booze, and they were good golfers. We played in 8-somes to stop the cheat. It was some of the best times of my life. I made a hole in one, one time, in a scramble on that team. It was the 16th hole, the other 4 some had other friends, it was in front of the clubhouse, and it got us into a playoff that we eventually won. Maybe my greatest personal memory….. Today, scrambles are dead.

Cheating has been a huge problem for many years. There's not much organizers can do about it other than having official scorers with the teams. The other thing I thought about was to have prizes randomly drawn from all participants and must be present to win. One idea I had was to have the top 5 teams score-wise regardless of the actual number, have a skills competition in front of everyone. Fun, cheering on people, and will allow players to prove their ability.

I’ve actually stopped playing with certain people in my golf group because of cheating. It just gets old when they’re shooting par on every single hole but yet they were in the woods or they hit it in the water, or they skulled their chip shot, etc.. Then they will gloat afterwards. “You golf four times a week and I beat you and I golf once a month.”

Sandbagging is the biggest issue. I have noticed for years that everybody scores 4-6 shots better the second day. Only exception is sometimes in the high handicap flights.

When I ran charity golf outings, we did teams of 3 so that we could go out as six somes and it lowered the scores, and kept people honest because there's another random team playing with them. That being said, I've played an outing with two scratch guys, a 6 and myself (13) and we were 18 under.

I stopped playing in scrambles years ago. Last one i was in they decided to post scores before everyone turned in their cards. Wouldn't you know the last team to turn in theirs won by one stroke lmao.

I think a lot of people would be surprised at how much cheating goes on in golf tournaments period. I stopped playing in our local amateur tour because of it.

I have played in a number of these scrambles for charity or in a group of retired guys. I really have come to hate how you can "buy" mulligans and other misc. stuff! That's not golf!! I would like to see a scramble done where each group must pay a modest amount for a "caddy" that goes along with your group and scores unbiased and truthfully and maybe helps out with rules where to drop or what have you. That would fix it and caddies would sign up to be one because they would get paid.

I played in a 9 hole charity tournament today. My team of fairly competent golfers shot 3 under for a 33. The winning team posted a 15 under 21 for 9 holes. The second place posted an 11 under 25. I call BS on all of it.

A group of friends and I play in scrambles only because they can be cheaper that a normal round at that course. We just play a normal round of golf. When people are turning in scores of 56, there's no way we were ever going to wing. I played in one where my irons on par 3's was just on that day. I hit to 12", 2ft, 4ft, and 11"s. On the last par 3 I hit the 4ft shot. I also was the last group at that hole and picked up the marker. When the winner of the closest to the hole was announced all four holes went to the same guy. He was not the closest name on the marker I picked up. So even the organizers of events cheat. Fun fact. I haven't had a par 3 day (or even two holes) like that since.

3-man teams with two teams on each hole, keeping score for each other's teams; NO gimmies; one-club-length improvement taken seriously, no improving type of lie (in a trap, stays in a trap); zero mulligans. Shot 55 with a team in exactly this kind of scramble 41 years ago (me and 2 friends who played division 1 and 2), and it's still the most fun I've ever had playing golf.

Just played in a scramble where we tied for first at -11. As it turned out their tie breaker system went by hardest hole comparison and so on down the line. We ended up winning but I love the idea of a playoff between top 2 or 3 teams because the team that tied us no way shot the same. And funny part is there was basically nothing on the line to win (about $30/person credit). Exactly what you guys are saying, and I think golf in general on the amateur level is suffering the same thing just playing rounds…be an interesting study about human ego etc.. Enjoyed the clip keep up the good work.

Cheating is rampant in scrambles. I’ve never been on a winning team in my life. But I just push it out of my mind. I don’t care about the prizes. I’m just out to have fun with my buddies. But I do have friends that refuse to play in scrambles anymore. I’ve been behind winning groups where I saw what they were actually scoring. It is really crazy.

I’ve played in many and a lot of times the group in front of us is never in the fairway, never long, having to take drops from going in the drink, hitting out of green side bunkers all round long. Somehow…they manage to win by 6 strokes. It’s a miracle I tell you.

I used to play loads of scrambles and our corporate team won a fair few with 12 to 15 under; however, we had 2 players under 5, a 14 and a 22. So you can see how we could shoot that if we played well. Your example of 4 players around 27, to shoot anywhere near that- next to impossible. So much for golf being an honorable sport😮

I played a scramble in the spring and the winners were claiming a -16 and we were pretty sure they were doing at least a little cheating. It’s a game of honour and it can’t feel good to turn in a shady score. I think the key is to not give a big prize to the winners and just have KP for money with a spotter and maybe a long drive and longest putt holes. The -16 people made a couple hundred bucks each so I saw the incentive. Take away the ease and incentive of cheating and then people will just try to play well and have fun like they should. The exact middle score should win the biggest prize.

I play in a few scrambles a year and it’s ALWAYS the least talented looking groups shooting insane scores. Also I’ve noticed most places don’t seperate regular and senior drives for longest drive holes which always drives me nuts. The guys I’ll play with always ask why I don’t want to cheat, I always say “because it wouldn’t be fun with the amount you have to cheat”. I’m just trying to play a round of golf, get some food and have fun.

the only way i can see of 'policeing ' a golf tourneyment is to have streaming cameras 3 or more to a hole, and recorders for each and a computer program to search and find ( follow ) each group throughout their round of play. that way when a group comes in with a low score its possible to see how they got it. ( or how they cheated ) jeffrey rayborn wausau, wisconsin - golf player- not regular best round = 9 holes 44 , usual round last year 55. one time was in a dolf scramble thru work - my group was formed om the day from people who worked in different areas of the company. 1 guy had never played before but was athletic. after 5 minutes on the range he could hit a ball in a forward direction! LOL my group won 3 individual things. the guy who never played before one a longest put for his totally lucky 20 foot put. on the par 5 hole was a longest drive- that one of our team won, and on the par 3 one guy got closest to the hole with a lucky shot that was 4 inches . the guy who never played before, a week later had to pay the golf course for ruining the clubs he used. and all of us we astounded! because we saw all his hits all day long and he never did anything to the clubs he used to cause them to be deformed! the following 6 years the company had any golf outings our 4 people protested and never went. and every year i heard about things that ruined golf for other groups. i understand your 'cheating' you talk about is against the players. but please dont forget about the disreputable things done to players in nearly every tourneyment also !

The missus and i were entered in a two person captains choice, and we had a terrible 1st day (91 IIRC), and the second day we shot an amazing 76, which bounced us out of our flight, fair enough...I did win a closest to the pin prize, and asked the team playing with us to verify my measurement, they declined, saying 'great shot'...but in other scrambles my regular partner and I won our flight twice, and one other closest to the pin prize...we never worried about winning, or even hitting a rare great shot, as we always knew inevitably someone else would pencil whip us...enjoy the pretty day with a friend, or missus...

The last scramble I played in the winning team won with a 46. It's been bad for decades in the flighted club championships too. One guy I knew told me that the reason he consistently won club championships and big $ matches was because he had a well-manicured handicap. The handicap system is kind of silly at this point

I love the professional commentary. Great podcast. Scrambles are a lot of fun but most folks know that there are a lot of "discretionary shots" that occur. It shouldn't happen. Solution? Just drink and have fun :/

I belong to a country club and I gave up trying to win these fun scrambles - the winning scores are unbelievably low. The last time I played the players in the group in front of me were all over the fairway, or should I say all over the rough, and when it came time for the awards they won First Place. At that point our team said "there is definitely cheating in this game".

Golf scrambles are ridiculous. Played in 5 this year and realized i will never do it again. Never did better then 2nd flight and had good golfers with me and always some team with people who dont golf always ends up shooting 12 14 under while groups of good golfers are getting -6 and -8.

This is how we play scrambles in Australia ... Whoever shot you select that person dose'nt hit this continues till the green then all 4 putt ... it certainly helps with cheating but I think handicaps are still are open to being manipulated in some cases

It is not just low score cheating. I’ve seen people move the longest drive and closest to the hole markers with no relationship to where their ball ended up.

The one scramble I play in doesn't have any type of gimmick. We have a 2 minute rule on looking for a lost ball and once you are 2 over you pick up your ball. The closest thing that I saw to cheating were kids that are on their school's golf team playing from the ladies tee and I am just hoping that my drive makes it PAST the ladies tee. I go to the tournament with at least 40 balls because I play so bad. My team, this year, came in last. At one point he had hit a couple of good balls and were upset that might take us OUT of last place. LOL.

You should actually to take a look at the two-man scrambles. The sand bagging is ridiculous....and that isn't even including the team that doesn't come in until everyone has posted their score and they miraculously post a score 2 under everyone else. Seen it more than once. If you meet a person for the first time and want to know who they are, play golf with them. It is hilarious how people can hide their corrupt nature until it comes to who shot the lower score - who won.

We had a big tournament every year that had a group known to cheat. I took their card and tore it up one year and rewarded one of our out of town guests with the top prize. You would not believe how many tournaments these guys would cheat in and their occupations. So called Pillars of the community. It was sad. My brother in law quit playing with them because of this.

I play in a yearly scramble in Wisconsin. They have a putting raffle at the turn. You can buy 3 putts for $5. As many as you want. For each putt made your name gets put in a raffle jar. At the end, the winning name gets half the total money collected. To make things fair for everyone, 1st, 4th, 8th and 12th places are awarded prize money. All ties are rolled back to the hardest hole score. Can't tell you how many times we lost because we were 3rd or 7th or 10th place. Makes for a fun scramble. 😊

I use to play 4 man scramble at a former employer event. Its was only a 9 hole event. But each team had to use all 4 players tee off at least once. I also just played a scramble a month ago. We played a Bogey is your friend. If definitely speeds up the game until you get to a par 3 hole.

I saw an interview with the gentleman that was on that team that shot the 46 you were allowed to stack mulligan type shots on the same hole. Each person got 2 mulligans and a throw that does not count as a stroke. On a Par 4 which they carded a hole in one, drive was 60 yds short. They threw the ball which does not count as a stroke landed within 3 feet, they used another throw to put it in for a hole in one

I've played in scrambles where you got a piece of string and you cut off a chunk to get the ball in the hole so there was a little strategy involved about when to use it before you ran out.

I played in a scramble a month ago after some severe storms. Course was absolutely soaked. 30-40 mph winds and occasional rain. I played with 3 coworkers that can barely hit the ball. I play well. We shot 74. Winning team shot 57.

Played in a scramble in Norcal about 10-12 yrs ago. JBHunt was the host. Manteca Park. We know the Hunt guys and they are the hole ahead of us. My hcp was down to like 3-4 range. Carried my team and we ended up like 11-12 under. The 6th hole we catch the host team at tee on par 3. They are all absolutely f-ing hammered. They are all laughing that they just got their 1st birdie on last hole. So we finish. I’m taking my clubs to car before we meet to eat. One of the guys in Host group is sitting on the gate of his p/u and looks like he has a scorecard. I start fuming. Sure as $hit we go in and they announce scores…JBHunt team turns in -17 score. 11-12 didn’t win but the teams that seemed to turn in honest scores got cheated. Lost total respect for those folks that day. Every time I had to deal with them after that had a bad taste in my mouth.

this is a couple of things i've always said needs to happen.. either have scrambles be 2 somes or 3 somes, and you go out in 4 somes or 6's and you keep score of the other team. another option is, you have the top 3 teams, play a 9 hole playoff vs the clubhouse Pro's team, or some of the local scratch players and if they can beat the scratch guys they win the prize... if any team doesn't want to this playoff format, they are disqualified and the next team has the option.

This is crazy because I was just thinking about this. I was in a scramble and the top team got a 43. Standard course. Two cheats. 1. On two holes you got to tee off from the reds and 2. You got like 30 foot of string that you could measure out the string and cut it off, and then it was like it went in. So for a 5 foot put, they would have 25 foot of string left after using 5. I still think that is impossible though. If DeChambeau and Sergio can’t break 50 in best ball, how in the world can someone hit a 43, even with those cheats? Essentially every whole, your second shot would have to be 2-3 feet from the hole. On the flip side a couple counter points. Not all tourneys are rigged. Our church did a 27 player scramble and my group shot two under. I thought we would be crushed. There are a lot of solid golfers that played. We got third. First was only 5 under. So not everyone cheats. Second, you can’t totally base the score off handicap. These days I have around a 30 handicap (because I don’t cheat) and I am really inconsistent. However, I have done really well in scrambles because I am a really good putter, and sometimes I make an amazing iron shot (which really is what keeps me going). But I have never won a scramble. If I was in a scramble where I got to take all four shots myself, I bet I could post a really low score. It is weird though, I am very competitive in everything I do, and for scrambles I just go out to have fun, and it is always fun. Probably because I realize I have no shot at winning.

The last scramble I did, we were sent out in groups of 8. It was a 6 and a half hour round. I was exhausted at the end of it. It didn’t help it was a hot day on a golf course with little shade.

Simple.... Yes. Enter a Charity Event - Donate to charity and go home. Half or MORE of the groups cheat.

I used to run a charitable scramble every year. Because of the suspected cheating, I stopped giving closest to the pin, longest putt, longest prize and lowest score prizes. Instead, everyone got a prize based on a random drawing with the best prizes going last. Everyone walked away happy.

I’m 78 years of age and I’ve been playing golf since I was 14 or 15. I’m currently playing off a handicap bait and as recently four years ago I shot 68 four under and I was playing handicap four. I have played in a few of these scrambles and I shake my head when I look at the scores that I have and then I look at their handicaps and you think they couldn’t possibly score the scores that they had off the handicap are playing on I’ve decided that I won’t play any of these events any longer because of the cheating that goes on and I’ve seen time and time again even Club scramble events and and events were where they have astronomical scores. Well if you played off 10 handicap and you shot four under that’s better. How often is that ever happened? And then and then you had the school of their partner has no one in the wide world? I can schoolso my vet is playing

A few of my friends got so sick of a few cheaters that they just wouldn't play anymore. A friend who worked at the course said he watched the "winning" team take about 30 shots into the green. Unless there is a serious effort to keep people honest, I am not going to spend serious money to compete. How many times do the last few teams post the lowest score?

Long ago, a good friend of mine and golf pro, he and I played in a scratch doubles "better ball" tournament. At the time I was a +3.4 handicap and he was something around a +4.5 handicap. Yes, we were both sub-par players at the time. He and I both had a fantastic day that day, both playing one of the best rounds of the year, shooting a scratch 58 together. We were ecstatic over the round we had. Even for us that was an absolutely tremendous round. And then we found out that 2 other guys, 10 and 15 handicap players, also shot a scratch 58 round. The head pro of the course, also a friend of mine, allowed their score to stand but warned them, "never come back here to play a tournament again, you cheated". Obviously we could not prove they cheated, but come on, there is NO WAY a 10 and 15 handicap player scored a scratch 58 in this "better ball" tournament. That is impossible. It was unlikely enough that a +3 and +4 handicap team scored a scratch 58 (we did, and did NOT cheat). My head pro friend absolutely believed my buddy and I scored such a great game (he knows our playing well) but absolutely did not believe the other team. It was clear, they cheated. And our scratch score was 7 strokes better than the next best of the field. Oh, and FYI, my playing partner and I suggested a playoff to break the tie, funny thing, they wouldn't agree to it. Wonder why....

There are three types of cheating going on here: Handicap manipulation - where people are deliberately keeping their index high by either putting in false cards or deliberately playing badly. It is very hard to police this except only permitting competition cards to count towards handicap or maybe requiring there to be a minimum number of different markers in your recorded cards. Overly generous gimmies - there really ought not to be any gimmies in any event for which there is a prize. Misreporting scores - which seems to be the most blatant and the form of cheating that has the greatest impact on scoring. An observer would obviously deal with this, but it isn't practical. The statistician in me suggests that if you can't have an observer in each group, what you can have is observers who circulate checking the score of each group on two or three holes. Can you prove cheating from comparing the observed holes with the rest of their card? Maybe not, but the relationship should stand out quite clearly.

The small town I live in has a very nice municipal golf course. There are several fund raising tournaments throughout the season - volunteer fire department, high school sports etc. Fees are generally around $150 per player with a modest lunch provided and a raffle after the event. I decided not to participate when the winning gross scores were at or near 50 ( par 72) and net scores ( 25% handicap) were around 44 - 46. As you are commenting, no one in the group has the game for those scores. Sad .

My first 3 best ball scrambles 20 years ago were won by teams claiming 21, 20 and 18 under and there were no holes that you could buy a shot or pay to have ball on green for second shot on par 5. Straight up 18 holes of best ball only. My team was at par for one and 2 under for two, and together as a four man team we were better than most. The last best ball I did 3 years ago for a Church charity the winning score was even par and my group got second at 2 over par and there was a hole that you could buy a birdie, buy a putt for double eagle on a par five and buy a birdie put from 8 feet on a par 3. I remember thinking we were going to be last at 2 over even after I heard the organizers say we had a good score. They actually knew what they were talking about as they had put it on for the past 3 years. All 4 of those best balls were played on the same course which is considered quite difficult for the average golfer. We thought there was cheating going on 20 years ago so I am not at all surprised by this. Granted, myself and my group 3 years ago was not very strong, but we were still only a couple shots off of from two of those previous best balls.

In the annual scramble I play, we're just out to have fun. It's an excuse to hang with a few family members I rarely see. I don't care about score. BUT, every year there are 4 or 5 teams (out of about 20) who bring in a pro as a ringer. Example from two years ago: Last hole of the course is a short Par 4 at 325 yds. We're on the green and the team behind us is on the tee. Three of the four are middle-aged, overweight and, at this point in the day, drunk. The fourth, a slim young man, drives about 5 yards short of the green. Their team turned in a score around 60. And you know damn well every ball they played was the ringer's. Did it ruin the game? No. But it's pretty lame for an amateur charity event.

I really think ALL scrambles need a volunteer scorekeeper walking with each group. I competed in an event in Lexington, KY, par 72 course - one reachable par 4, 3/4 par 5s were easily reachable. Now gimmicks were given, you could buy a max of 8 mulligans per team, and you're given a 3' string (which I believe was not properly explained it's "proper" usage). My team made 3 eagles, 13 birdies for a score of 53. We eagled 2 of the par 5's and the reachable par 4. the winning team shot 46, with another team shooting 48, and 3 other teams beating our score of 53. And I'm just scratching my head thinking, there's no way...

A lot of it starts a the course where the handicaps are kept. When there's supposed to be legitimate A, B, C and D. Players is where the cheating starts. I've watched 4 players hit a green from over 250 yards out on a par 5. C and D, 99% of the time can't hit the ball 250 yards even off a tee with a driver. Everytime we had scrambles that the prize money was $1,000.00 or more, the cheaters are out. I didn't enjoy playing in those but I did because of where the money was going. We have scrambles on Base once a month (I'm a retired Marine) and retired near Marine Corp Base, Jacksonville NC. Most of our scrambles are set up by the golf committee, by computer which was the worst for me, being the lowest handicap and always getting a certain person as a D player, which had nothing to do with his skill," very negative attitude". The other way was all A's thru D's separately drawn from a bag. Then the betting starts. We did that same way at most of the the Country Clubs I was invited too. The scrambles the A player had to think about was when you had to use at least 2 drives and two second shots from every player during the round. You could kill a tee shot, but your D player hit it 175 yards down the middle. ? Will he hit another one like that today ? Now you have a choice of a 200 yard shot or a 100 yard shot into the green. Love the game !!!

I played in a lot of scramble events. I have no doubt that there are definitely teams that cheat. I’ve been on a couple of teams where one of the players suggested skirting the rules, thankfully, the rest of us would not have it.

I was on a team that went 22 under. When we handed in the card...the organizers called bs. The group behind us come in and asked...that was amazing...how low did you go?!?! I was a 7 and long drives playing with 3 scratch guys.

In the 70s scrambles were well managed in the North East. This would be the better tournaments and better players who truly wanted to test their skills and see how low they could go. But, there were officials watching any group suspect and generally the overall play. Big prizes for hole in ones were also watched.

Played in these for decades. Charity ones where these goofy string, mulligans, games to go to front tees, shoot a cannon ball, etc. These get some crazy scores but it's not legit entirely. Plus, have played legit 4 person events with straight up scoring. It takes a long time but the most fair is teams play together. 8 people. Almost always these are on 9 hole courses. Best score we had of four players (player range +3-4 hcp to 3-4 hcp) shot -20. A couple drivable par 4s, reachable par 5s. Same 9 hole course twice. It was a playoff as both paired up teams (8) had that score, won on first playoff hole (Par 5) eagle over a birdie. Places can do an automatic 2 putt rule to move things along. Folds of Honor a couple weeks ago we did that as there were 136 players. Winning score was -14.

Yup Golf is just following society down the sewer , I was raised that it was a Gentleman’s Game with no swearing or Club throwing but those civilized days are long gone ! 😢

Played in a scramble in Dallas area. Guys with the cargo shorts carded -26. There were lots of gimmicky holes, but come on!

The newest thing, at least for me, is where the institution running the event has everyone log into an account and track your scoring that way. This has led to cheaters waiting to see what the leading team is scoring and then track their scores. This is usually a 25+ handicap team beating a 5-10 handicap team. I've decided to just enjoy the game/opportunity to play with some friends and have no concept of actually winning. The sad part is most of the time I'm playing in "charity" events.

I'm old enough to remember when golf was a gentlemans game. I've lost count of the times a golfer has called a penalty, on themselves, which no one else witnessed. The ridiculously high handicaps make golf a farce, for the low handicap players, in club events. I don't play competitions now, for that reason.

I’m a female golfer who hits the ball pretty long. I’ve had guys invite to be a part of their scramble because I get to hit from the forward tees. I would hit a shot into the fairway, then they would let it rip knowing they could play my shot ,which was always in the middle of the fairway, if their shots went into the woods.

We played in the scramble where they allowed people to use FOUR mulligans per player anywhere on the course…and since it was charity for my kids school, we all bought 4…then used them. We won. None of the other groups seemed to realize that they could use that many. So, we got a lot of dirty looks, but we did not cheat at all…we just used the crazy rules better than anyone else. Now, they will get rid of all the mulligans, but they were getting $10 a piece for those. So, sad. Anyway, random story. But, just shows how scrambles are always a mess.

I played in a scramble this past weekend and we had windy conditions than a torrential rainfall halfway through the round and the winning team shot 16 under.

If you mix handicaps and scrambles, you might as well just give your money away. My rule is, if you play scrambles for money, you put 8 on a box, blind draw and keep each other's score. If a 2 man, 4 man to a box. Best way is to have a non-playing score keeper with each group. I am even seeing this trickle into Member Guest events.

Said this for years. Cheating with best ball groups goes hand & hand.

About 20 years ago, i played in a 4 man scramble. It was a celebrity golf tournament and our star was the late, NFL Hall of Famer, Richard "Nightrain" Lane. At this event they were selling mulligans for $2 a piece. I asked Mr. Lane to explain what the mulligans meant because i really didn't know...he explained that we were buying extra shots...cheating! At that moment, i lost respect for those kinds of events. I have not played in a scramble since....rest in piece Nightrain!!

I am not a good enough player to expect to be competitive even with 3 other guys. To me, it’s a day out with friends and we are competing against ourselves. It’s a victory if I can get a closer to the pin or a good door prize 🏆

What we’ve had to do in our area in WA state is put two foursomes together and make them swap score cards. That way the two teams keep each others scores. Cheating had gotten out of control during big money tournaments, so we had to do something.

I have a corporate scramble coming up later this week. Last year’s winning score was a -19 by a group of 60+ guys. Now I’m not saying it can’t happen in a scramble… but the course/tee box we were playing was nearly 7000 yards with 73.4/136 rating. My group finished -8. I’m not saying we’re long hitters but I think I’m slightly above average with a 108mph swing speed. A couple guys in my group (friends of mine) are slightly faster at 110+. One guy is a single digit handicap, we had a 20 something handicap and me and the last guy are around a 12. I’m sorry but there’s no way the winning group birdied the longer par 4s. I’ll give them the 5s, but some of the par 4 holes were just under 500yards. One of them was a straightforward 480 to the pin but tree lined, narrow and protected by bunkers. 2nd hardest hole on the course. Absolutely no way they hit the gir. I didn’t get a clear view of them swinging but spotted them on a 210yard par 3 and some had driver in hand and the others weren’t holding irons. I’m thankful for the day off work and a round on the company’s dime but I’d rather match play in my own group if the tournament doesn’t mean anything.

To pay extra just to take an advantage is ridiculous,everyone should have an equal chance.

I won an evening league tournament by one stroke and was accused of cheating (padding my handicap) by the same guy who earlier in the year told me (you gotta 5 on that hole, not a 4"

I play approximately 3 scrambles a year and have given up trying to win and minus 27 seems to always win. I watch the pro am and they don't put that kind of score in a day.

I haven’t played a scramble in over 10 years. I got tired of the cheating and just didn’t want to deal with it. It was bad then and it's probably much worse now.

I wont play in a 4 man scrambles. Matter of fact it is difficult to play in any club tournaments these days. Low ball team or individual. I currently play on the Golf Week Players Tour and the Amateur Players Tour. These tours apply real rules and this is real golf.

We play two foursomes per hole and you keep the other team's score.

In foursomes, the initial shot on each of the 4 par 3s must be done by a different player in the foursome. So if A, B, & C are on the green, but D is in a bunker, you may want to use D's shot, because who knows what will happen on the remaining par 3s, and you'll probably get up and down from the bunker. If you use a player's drive, that player cannot hit the next shot; only the other 3 players on the team can hit the next shot. After that, all four players can play shots on that hole.

Used to organize a scramble for local special Olympics. I hated gimmick packages but my finance guy reminded me we made more money from people buying gimmicks than entry fees. I still hated it but we needed needed the money.

We have a scramble member-caddie event…no cheating going on there - lol Even the pros will play in it…the young guns will pick the closest putt for the scramble, but if the other ones happens to go in they count it.

I’ve come to the conclusion the only way to make scrambles fair is to have track recorded handicaps separate from individual. I carry a 15.4 and my buddy is a 5-6 right now. When we play our team handicap tends to land around an 6-8 depending which formula the club uses. But we almost always shoot under par as a team. Our best is 7 under. I just think the very nature of scramble formats is too different to take individual handicaps and put them into a team setting