Has Dune KILLED Star Wars? 

Paul Atreides, Anakin Skywalker, Joe Brennan. All three are charming, unproblematic young lads with great hair. But whose side are you on?

Disney be like: You didnt kill star wars.... I did!

I can't believe the final shot of Dune Part 2 saw Paul look into the screen and say "This is the Star Wars now", blew my mind

Dune was so good in theaters that it made me feel like Star Wars was a children's show.

I don’t think DUNE should be a Star Wars “killer”, but rather a catalyst. Just as the original novel inspired the first movie, I would like to believe that Lucasfilm can see where their creative shortfalls lie, and look to Denis Villenueves’ vision and creativity as inspiration to improve the world of Star Wars.

"It's all Obi-wan's fault!" "It's all the Bene Gessiert's fault! -- Space messiahs right before genociding half the galaxy.

Dune is the Sci-Fi equivalent of Lord of the Rings. It’s simply in a class by itself with how good it is. Even though I still prefer SW overall, I can say Dune is better and both fandoms can coexist and prefer one over the other. And we don’t need to get into constant arguments.

You seem wise and prescient, like some kind of... Brene Joesserit

I'd describe Dune as "Star Wars if Andor's tone and style were the norm" That's the thing that has made me enchanted with Dune Part 2 (i've seen it 5 times already, will be seeing it again), but it's also why i don't think it's a SW "killer". I don't see kids getting into Dune the way they get into Star Wars

I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere.

Frank Herbert is smiling somewhere if the title is correct.

I'm team Edward, for sure.

Dune _birthed_ Star Wars.

I like how Herbert valued theology and religion while condemning religious extremism. Writers today can’t think like that anymore.

Star Wars just changed it so lasers, AI and computers are allowed and spice is not required for FTL travel. The rest of the best ideas are taken from Dune but simplified so you have a definite good/bad split for the younger audience. So Dune was a good inspiration for Lucas, no doubt about it but it went off on its own path. Dune is a far more serious story and ultimately has no good guys, unless you count the "golden path" as necessary in that universe and the only thing that is justified to be good. If they can fix the current trends in Star Wars they can get the fans back, but I am not confident with the present owners.

I agree 100% that Star Wars itself is to blame for the state its currently in. Dune is just filling a vacated niche, I think. I remain foolishly optimistic about The Acolyte, since it's setting (100 years pre Phantom Menace) will force them to do at least a couple things different. I say that now, but I'm sure the monkey's paw will do its thing and Yoda, Jabba, and Chewie will appear in every episode

"Killed" is an insane statement but they can definitely look at the success of Dune & try to bring that to the franchise.

Cinema as a whole really gave up after Mamma Mia 2

You can’t kill what’s already dead.

Star Wars: sand Dune: sand + worms Beetlejuice: sand worms

so glad you managed to post this a few weeks ago while it was still culturally relevant!

You forgot Lawrence of Arabia as a Dune influence, The story of T.E. Lawrence is basically Pauls story. The movie itself may have even had some influence releasing 3 years before Dune. Peter O' Toole sure had piercing blue eyes.

Rian Johnson’s ominous floating head in the background reminds me what really killed Start Wars 😒

Love both Dune 1 & 2 and all six first Star Wars episodes, but I think they can actually set up in a way to not fight over the same thing. Like you said, Star Wars has a completely different tone, and it also is for both adults and children! This appeal to both target audiences got lost a little bit in the latter Star Wars installments, I would say, and I wish they would try to reconcile this a little bit. Dune on the other hand is way more complex and deeper, and definitely adult oriented.

I grew up on Star Wars, and I will always love the OG trilogy. But to me, there is absolutely no question that the Dune movies surpass even the OG Star Wars trilogy in basically every metric. The practical and visual effects are better, the acting is WAY better, the music is at least on-parr, and the plot and character development is _far_ more dense, complex, profound, interesting, meaningful, and real. Star Wars has great entertainment value, but it simply doesn't have the same kind of serious, profound commentaries on religion, politics, gender roles, suffering, breeding and sex, the human condition, and more. And I really, really value that in a good film.

Denis' implementation of laser weaponry was already enough to end Star Wars. Rather than whimsical colourful bolts flying across the screen a laser becomes a searing hot singular beam that tears through everything at breakneck speed. In Star Wars the battle sequences always felt like a formality without any stakes. Beautiful but ultimately frivolous. Dune made science fiction warfare terrifying again.

No. Dune is nihilistic and violent. Nobody wins. The galaxy is horrific. Star Wars is Flash Gordon.

I would really love to see denis given 250 mil to create a star wars movie all on his own with no input from Lucasfilm. I genuinely think he could creat the best star wars film of all time. Also if tony Gilroy was the director of rogue one from the beginning it probably wouldve been on par with the dune films

The fact that some people 'follow' the Lisan Al-Gaib proves that they don't understand Dune.

Totally agree with you. As a passionate fan of Star Wars films right up until TROS's opening night, I'd argue Star Wars died five years ago. Like, how did they possibly mess up the final film so badly? Say what you will about TLJ (I personally love it) but you can't under any circumstances claim that its an incompetently made film. Whether you agree with them or not, TLJ's creative decisions are made with care and confidence and the end goal of ushering Star Wars into a new age, both in and out of universe. The same cannot be said of TROS. I'd say that the majority of TROS feels like it was written, directed, and edited with all the finesse of a hyperactive 8th grader writing a paper for a class he hates at the last minute, but that would be an insult to the 8th grader. It's a heartless, soulless, feckless wreck of a film. They couldn't have made it worse if they actively tried. The ONLY small credit I will pay it for is the relatively touching redemption scene with Han, but even that feels more like the power Driver and Ford's acting rather than any conscious attempt to illicit emotion by the filmmakers. The thing is, I'm sure they didn't intend the movie to be this bad, which means that it was a total hash behind-the-scenes. That's fine if your making a low budget indie movie, but not a $400 million blockbuster with thousands of people working thousands of hours to get it made and the reputation of an entire company riding on it. Rushed, incompetent filmmaking like what they did with TROS is never something to be encouraged and why Dune is currently eating Star Wars lunch. At the risk of sounding dramatic, TROS killed my love for sci-fi for quite a while. I'll be honest, it wasn't until I went into Dune (having seen none of the trailers) as a cynical curmudgeon thinking "this is gonna be a shallow sanitized hip-hop version of Dune and I'm gonna hate it" and ended up being totally blown away by the craftsmanship and passion that went into the film from all parties involved that I fell in love with the genre again. Seriously cannot commend the new Dunes enough.

I hope I'm not jumping the gun by posting before watching the whole video. Disney killed Star Wars, Dune is innocent of that one.

My introduction to SW was comprised of Ep. 1-3, and then 4-6. I really like the prequels' heavy emphasis on the political economy of the setting and the character of Kenobi... And they're all that I like about the franchise; everything else I find to be quite mediocre, from the shallow politics, to Skywalker's unconvincing face-heel turn, to the laughable nature of Vader's costume. Villeneuve's Dune 1 (Pts. 1 & 2), on the other hands, just checks all the right boxes for me.

Dune is intended to be dark and we got some dark films. Star Wars on the other hand was intended for kids, or the kids within. Its whimsical, adventurous, and bright. Yes, ESB got darker and made it more real, but the overall tone of the OT is very bright and upbeat. I think the mistake newer SW has made, including the prequels, is mostly tonal. Its meant to be mythical and fun, not politically dense, subversive, or grimly realistic.

Dune and Star Wars can coexist, akin to the coexistence of Batman and The Shadow. Batman may have drawn inspiration from The Shadow, yet it introduced novel concepts and delved into different ideas. However Disney's profit-centric approach stifles innovation. Disney prioritizes short-term gains over long-term cohesiveness. Hence the sequel trilogy.

The best compromise is combining the two. Watching Dune instead of the prequels as it basically sets up the same sorta story

I think that this great adaptation of gifts Dune's book it's not killing these "star wars" franchise but it's more like an euthanasia, for some people. It is helping mature audiences to kill the remains of the love for "childish" and even nonsense star wars content. It happened the same to me a long time ago. As an old guy, my parents took in 83 to watch Return of the jedi in the cinema, and inmidiatly I felt in love with this fantasy world, until I reached 15 and read Dune and messiah, that day the child died. Nowadays I enjoy a lot watching star wars products whith my kids, it's pure family entertainment but one day I suppose that will end for them too when they grab Dune or any other epic saga which asks the right questions for the right age

George Lucas Star Wars will never die. But Disney killed their version of Star Wars that they constantly call "canon" and continuation of GL work which is a lie. And their losing true Star Wars fans like myself, the proof is the dislikes on the Acolyte trailer lol... Dune is doing what Star Wars should have been doing when Lucas sold it.

It's possible that all of the people who have become disappointed with how Star Wars has turned out have something better with a clear, unapologetic messaged embedded into it. Clearly thede chosen one narratives across culture and religion cause more harm than good.

I was recommended your video on the homepage and I’m so glad I clicked! Thorough and enthusiastic. I’m excited to finally see Part Two in the cinema tomorrow 🎉 cheers

Dune at this point for me is better than Star Wars but I love both, they're not mutually exclusive. I think the Dune movies are particularly captivating is because Paul is not a traditional hero (avoiding spoilers here) and that's fresh for an audience to sit back and examine who these people are and why they do what they do.

I’m not sure if I’m ever going to be able to get properly excited for a Star Wars movie again. Bob Iger’s whole strategy of pumping out as much stuff as quickly as possible really kind of killed that big event feel Star Wars used to carry. Do I hate Solo and Rogue One? Not really but I do feel they sort of cheapened the theatrical Star Wars experience. No title crawl? I’m already taken out of it. And Rise of Skywalker being a total rushjob to meet Iger’s deadline was a pretty fatal blow as well. And since Rise of Skywalker Star Wars has existed largely as cheap-looking streaming tv. Like I just can’t get excited that Star Wars return to the big screen will be an extension of shows like Mandalorian (post Greig Fraser), Ahsoka, and Book of Boba Fett, three of the ugliest, least cinematic shows I’ve ever had the pleasure of watching. It would either take a massive shake-up, a lot of time, or both to be excited for Star Wars in the theater like I used to be. Dune and Avatar seem to be the big space spectacles I used to get with Star Wars. I couldn’t be more excited to see what James Cameron has cooking . I think the dead enthusiasm is mostly due to Bob Iger. He has only had one play in his book his whole career, it’s always bitten him in the ass, and he never seems to learn from it. It’s how he killed Who Wants to be a Millionaire, it’s why Star Wars burnt out in 5 years, it’s why Marvel is currently struggling.

I would love to see Denise Velenue direct a Star Wars movie

The movies are so different i dont think this is a conversation worth having.

Star Wars is kid's movie made to sell merch. Dune is a author's movie for adult.

Maybe it just needs to up its game if it wants to go forward and compete. That doesn’t mean that the earlier works aren’t still valid. This very much Babylon 5 verses DS9 debate in the 90’s because they are both set on space stations.

They call Dune “Star Wars for adults”. Ironically I was into Dune as a kid, but didn’t get into Star Wars until I was an adult.

I'm so over Star Wars so ngl I hope so.

This video should’ve been posted on April fools then say “April fools” after the long pause lol 😂

lets be real even the original trillogie doesnt hold a candle to the depths and visuals of dune 1/2. but u can say that both dune and star wars are really nothing without their great composers and their music

Has Dune killed Star Wars?.....Y...E....S

You made some good points, comparing these franchises as copycats isn't always helpful. Comparing them as pieces of cinematography is very relevant. The similarities can be boiled down to concepts but there is so much difference in the detail. It's also relevant to me as I rewatched Part I on Monday and watched Part II at the cinema on Thursday. Both movies were fantastic, a slightly weird ending, but fantastic all the same. I'm still a fan of the 1984 version and even the mini-series. Sci-fi is as much an aesthetic as a genre and that common element appeals to many of the same people but not all. Even though I like the films and like the first book, which so far is the only Frank Herbert one I have read... there are still issues with the material.

starwars for kids and Dune for adults for me thats ok

Have to keep in mind that the worst iterations of Dune are not better than the worst iterations of star wars. The 1984 Dune and Sci Fi Dune were cult classics at best, with nowhere near the mass appeal of SW. If Dune itself was objectively better, it shouldve beaten SW before.

Dune didn’t kill Star Wars. Star Wars died all by itself. Dune’s director put it best “I didn’t leave Star Wars. Star Wars left me”

I can’t tell if the poster of Rian behind you is ironic or for real. I don’t hate other films he’s done but I genuinely believe he largely contributed to destroying Star Wars which I used to love.

Star Wars wasn’t killed by any competitor, it was murdered by Disney

No. Star Wars killed Star Wars.

Dune will never kill Star Wars. Star Wars can’t even kill itself. And it has tried multiple times. One great Star Wars project finally comes out and boom the last ten years will be forgotten.

Disney killed Star Wars years ago. Don’t drag Dune into that steaming pile of turd.

Star Wars killed Star Wars.

Star Wars is culture but the cinematic we once experience is something, won't be seeing for long time.

No if anyone can claim to kill Star Wars, it's Star Wars.

@ 2:02 That's not all Lucas stole. I'll bet he got the idea for Darth Vader from a little known B-flick called "The Phantom of The Paradise"... More specifically, the character "Winslow Leach" is the main character in the 1974 American film Phantom of the Paradise, who wear all black, wears a black cape, and get this...uses a vocoder to speak because his vocal chords were damaged..in an accident.. In hindsight, George Lucas plagiarized left and right.. If you don't buy it, go see it for yourself (The Phantom of the Paradise),

StarWarz died in epi VI, and the funeral was held when epi I was released, imo. I was there, upon initial release at theaters!

Fandom is not a zero sum game. I repeat: fandom is not a zero sum game. And this is coming from someone who's not been into Star Wars for a long time. When even my friends recommend ANDOR, it's still got some life left in it. Sure, I love DUNE the best, but don't make me say it a third time.

Star Wars isn’t dead. It’s just dormant while Disney where’s its IP as a skinsuit.

I agree with you. Dune killed star wars because desert planets and the emperor. Not to MENTION the fact they both fight with blades of some description.

Dune and starwars are apples and oranges. Dune is far more comparable to game of thrones than starwars. Really their only similarities are that they are space movies and loosely follow the Jesus messiah trope

You cannot compare what is intended for a teenage audience with what is intended for an adult audience.

Star wars killed itself, Dune just filled the gaping hole.

R.I.P STAR WARS (1977-83).

Dune didn't destroy Star Wars, Star Wars destroyed it self

Yes After episode 7 I vowed to never watch another episode until Disney divests the franchise

"Star Wars stole everything from Dune"? Of course not! It also stole from "The hidden fortress", "Valérian & Laureline", "Métal Hurlant"... And then, when everything got mashed together with great special effects and tight editing, it became a new, unique piece of art. Progress in storytelling is like progress in science: iterative.

STAR WARS killed STAR WARS

Joe, how can you sleep at night? I know I couldn't sleep at night if there was a giant Rian Johnson staring at me from the wall. ANYWAY I've been a Dune fan since the mid 2000's and I was never a Star Wars fan (except from Empire Strikes Back, love that film) and while OBVIOUSLY Lucas yoinked elements from Dune, he took elements from a buncha stuff. People saying Dune is just a SW ripoff is about as accurate as saying it's a Hidden Fortress ripoff or a The Dam Busters or a Flash Gordon ripoff. Dune is in Star Wars' DNA but so are many other things and they came together to become its own thing. Especially since Dune is deconstructive and SW is romantic. C'est art.

Calling Dune the “new Star Wars” is a disservice to what Dune is and its achievement. Star Wars is now a monopoly of greed and mediocrity, like the MCU it has become the Hollywood norm and people have become complacent with the way films are made now. What Villenueve has done with Dune will go down in cinema history, a return to form for quality writing, cinematography, and acting. Quality over quantity, a filmmaker with a true passion and vision for his work, not a person ordered to follow guidelines and fill their works with unnecessary humor and political messaging. This is a wake up call for Hollywood, Bury SW and Marvel, Praise Dune Long Live The Fighters

Denis Villeneuve expressed and clearly shows that he’s passionate about Dune so if they want to exploit Dune like they did with SW it will be without him

I also love the pure political intrigue in dune more than Star Wars some of the political machinations seem very fabricated and placed they don’t really seem like anything real, the entire galaxy is at civil war over some trade federations orchestrated by some space wizard. and we’re to believe that the galactic empire got their giant planet blower upper weapon destroyed by the same kid, twice. Then you have dune a fight about resources and politics intertwined. Some big fucking allegories can be made from the duniverse to ours politically speaking and that speak to me personally much more, oh why is arrakis important, crazy drugs that make people really smart and are required for safe interstellar travel. The entire betrayal of house atrediss by house Corrine and Harkennon is some of the most politically intriguing shit that I’ve seen in a while and then that dynamic with the fremen and the landsraad is even cooler everyone has their own goals literally plans within plans.

Lucas adapted the very best from Dune and created in my opinion the greatest story ever written around Anakin Skywalker. Sadly, likely in order to make the movies more accessible to kids, he only implied that billions upon billions died terribly in the Clone Wars, during the Empire's oppression and in the Galactic Civil War. Having seen Dune 1+2 and read the first book, I'll gladly add, however, that Dune might be my second favorite story. Both stories deconstruct fear and revenge as the source of evil. Both stories deconstruct charismatic leaders. Both stories deconstruct religion, manipulation and politics. Both stories deconstruct the significance of family. While Lucas is an optimist after all, Herbert clearly is a pessimist.

I may be wrong, but Star Wars has much more potential for writing a great story than Dune. The thing is, the franchise is in the wrong hands and we're clearly not getting quality media

Star Wars could kill Dune by matching Dune 3's budget and putting any trash out in cinemas the same weekend.

Even though I prefer the Dune franchise over the Star Wars franchise I don't agree that Dune killed Star Wars and is now irrelevant. ❤❤❤❤

Video killed the radio star, Dune killed the Star Wars... Yeah, I think I've heard that song...

I was 12 when Star Wars came out. I saw the trailer for it xmas of 76 before a screening of 2001. That trailer is still the greatest movie I ever saw. I read the book before I saw the movie. I watched it 3 times on opening day. I was a bit disappointed that the Biggs story was left on the cutting room floor. I eventually saw it 40 times in the theatre. In 1979 a movie was released that made Star Wars irrelevant for me. A little known cult film called Alien. I saw it on opening day as well. When Empire came out, I saw it once, and didn’t think much of it. By then I’d also seen The Hidden Fortress, and read the Dune series and many other deeper and better films. Star Wars was over for me. Ewoks showed up a few years later and killed it dead.

The original Star Wars trilogy can still hold up as a sci-fi fairytales with memorable characters and places, the classic hero's journey, and simple yet timeless messages of good vs evil. But the derivative and uninspired Disney Star Wars with its desperate and clumsy attempt of being modern is such a bland and uninteresting franchise (with very few notable exceptions such as the excellent Rogue One, and I've heard good things about Andor) that it cannot hold a candle to Dune and how it has been brought on screen by Villeneuve.

One is science fiction, the other is fantasy.

Dune didn't kill Star Wars, it was Disney.

The main story of Dune is deeper, more mature, and better than executed than pretty much anything Star Wars has ever done IMO. Andor is perfect to me though and I’d like more of that. That being said, Star Wars is more expansive, easier to digest across mass audiences. They are similar, but have very different styles so it’s not exactly apples to apples. Plus, I don’t want to see Dune go the route of Star Wars and just constantly bastardize the franchise. Even lord of the rings isn’t completely safe. If HBO can come out with some high quality shows for Dune to expand on all the characters, that would be incredible. The new Batman is my favorite Batman and the penguin series seems like a perfect idea to expand that universe. But my first love was Star Wars and I do hope they find their footing again, I really do. 🙏🏽

I like to remain optimistic about all this stuff. Development of things such as the Rey movie seems to be holding strong for now. Haven't heard much from the Jedi origin movie, but Mangold is filming his Bob Dylan movie atm so I won't get too worried for now. We have the Acolyte and one more season of Andor coming, plus I've been enjoying Bad Batch lately. If Star Wars takes anything from Dune I hope they just remain faithful in the filmmakers they've chosen and let them fulfill their vision for Star Wars. Just slow down with all the streaming shows (which seems to be a developing philosophy for both them and Marvel to tone all that shit down) and bring Star Wars back to the big screen and make them feel like big events again. I know a lot of people have lost faith in Lucasfilm being able to consistantly put out good quality shows and movies and I can't say I really blame them, but I just like to stay optimistic. Even when series that I like seem like they're in a rut, they always end up putting out something I enjoy again. I'm not too worried.

I think star wars is just trying to end its Mandalorian age with the upcoming movie and moving into more stuff like The Acolyte a different time and new characters. But you see you can't do a different time and new characters with dune because it would fail. Like Rings of Power. JRR Tolkien knew the story is done why expand further. Herbert completed his books. There's no more story to tell. Meanwhile Star Wars is a vast universe with plenty of opportunities to expand ideas further.

I don't think it's that Dune killed Star Wars, but new Star Wars has gotten so bad that people just dont care anymore and are ready for something else.

I didn't even know what Dune was till the first movie which I haven't seen, probably don't plan on seeing it unfortunately, no idea what it's about. So yeah. My opinion.

Dune didn’t kill Star Wars. Greed killed the Star Wars franchise.

I think the 'Dune Franchise’ was set up well by the first movie with plot wise dividends being paid off in the second movie. I see it as similar to Nolan’s Batman Begins and The Dark Knight which followed. Of course, if they are going to do a trilogy (as is the plan) then the last episode, based off Dune: Messiah, will possibly be a harder pill to swallow for some audiences. Yet the story and, importantly, the world-building is still very much growing on its new audience. Star Wars, by contrast, is tired. They made script-writing and storytelling errors in the last ‘trilogy’ while the previous prequel trilogy was basically let down by bad direction and everything else that followed on from this. Sands may shift again - maybe when the Dune series is ‘completed’ by a third movie and whatever TV series emerge. At this point, Star Wars could become more popular again. However, the lasting legacy of the Dune book series - which has yet to be barely tapped into as a source even now, from a cinematic perspective, might suggest otherwise.

Dune has killed star wars. There has not been a single star wars film in almost 20 years that has lived up to the hype.

No. Disney killed Star Wars. Dune just put the final shovel full of dirt on its coffin.

on one hand i hope so. Disney needs to be stopped. On the other hand Dune is probably going to BECOME the thing its killing. HBO and whoever else will milk it to death thus bringing about the fall of Dune faster than it started.

No more terrible disaster could befall your art than for it to fall into the hands of a Studio.

Such a fatal error not to find someone with a unified creative vision and ambition for the series when they bought the rights. The original film is the perfect lesson in the value of not being risk averse, and they completely ignored it.