The arms are a baffling decision by Steelcase. You already have one of the industry’s best sets of armrests on the Amia & Leap. Why not just use those again? These companies seem to often try to reinvent the wheel when they already have features that are great on pre-existing products. If you’re going to do something different, make it *better*.
This is a great point. The Karman's arms really LOOK nice, and it seems Aesthetics was a priority for them. Looks can't come before comfort though. Thanks for watching! - RG
It's about hitting price points. The Leap has better arms than the Karman because it's more expensive and the Gesture has better arms than the Leap because it's more expensive. I do think the Leap should have an option to get Gesture arms for more money though, it would be near perfect then.
@venom5809 The problem is that Steelcase proved that they can put their top tier arms on their lower end chairs by doing it with the Series 2. You can spend hundreds less on a Series 2 and get far better arms than the Karman. Its a massive oversight in my opinion. -Ryan
Pricing can often be a huge deciding factor, often weighted more than 1 point in the case of regular people and when that pricing difference is THAT big the chair is gonna sell like hotcakes to smaller framed people
Just literally got back from testing the Karman at my local dealer, second time trying it out. My thoughts on it are this, still kind of cheap, all Steelcase chairs should have Gesture arms but it is comfortable and the way the back moves is very nice. It feels like a smaller chair though so if you are bigger it might not be the chair for you. One a side note I tried out a V2 Leap with the headrest and the headrest isn't nearly as bad as reviewers make it out to be.
I have to give one addtional point to Steelcase as a company: They changed their warranty (at least here in germany): lifetime on the chair's frame, seat pan, back frame, under-seat housing, arms (for arms, it's for the non-pad, non-adjustment parts, "Armlehnenbügel"), 12 years for mechanism, lumbar support, cylinder, foam, casters, glides, 5 years for surface materials.
Well, that's certainly better than the 5 year warranty nonsense they had going on recently. But I do hope they revert back to the full 12 year warranty that they had before.
The suspension recline of the Aeron is the single most important reason I love this chair. The way it perfectly increases tension as you lean back is simply amazing. Is the recline of the Karman at that 20% limit anything similar? If not I'd gladly stick with the Aeron as I've never experienced anything like it. I do love the way the Karman looks though! If it has a similar feel to the recline I'd definitely consider it.
Underrated comment 😆 I'd love to see an Aeron Mesh pop filter! I apologize for the plosives. I used a pop filter but must have been eating the mic this time around. - RG
Aeron is still the king for me, but I do appreciate the Karman's existence. It would be interesting to see if Herman Miller finally decide to make the Aeron v2, with much more flexibility and comfort in mind, without sacrificing build quality and adjustments. At the moment, it's a very polarising chair and a lot of ppl overlook just how good it actually is, because of the hard seat and back frame.
ive been looking at a HM Aeron, and wasnt sure about the size. im 6'1 (about 185cm) but im very slim, and dont have a big footprint (only weigh around 60 kg) so im unsure if i should go for size b or c.
This is a great question. For me the seat comfort is improved when sitting in the size C chair. Unfortunately it is still very uncomfortable to try and put one leg up on the seat. I have tried, and the larger size doesn't fix that problem. - RG
Hey there thank you for the video was super informative! I have a question if you don’t mind seeing as you have the atlas headrest on your Aeron… well currently I have the OLD fabric headrest (the one that was a pretty small pillow). Since you’re familiar with all of them do you think it’s worth updating it to one of the newer ones? Or is this one still good enough?
There are a lot of things I love about the Cosm. Unfortunately the short seat depth is a big problem for me (I'm 6'2"). I'm curious what others think about this Cosm config. - RG
If the Cosm had seat depth adjustment, it would be a serious contender for the best mesh chair on the market. Most ppl tend to find the seat and back more flexible than the Aeron, and the height adjustable armrests are highly underrated. The weight sensitive recline mechanism is a bit polarising, as lighter ppl can struggle to freely recline in it.
Hi Robert, awesome as always! Was this the aeron size B or C? In the end of the video you were mentioning that you would preferably own the size C with the atlas headrest. I am 6’1 (186cm) and 210lbs and torn between the B or C. Thank you!
Would take the C. I‘m 1,93 m and would probably have gotten even a D if there would be one. At the C I’m almost on the max height wise. But it’s the seatdeepth that could be more. So for you C is probably ideal.
Thanks! I'm glad you enjoyed it. The chair in the video is a size B. But for me personally at 6'2" I fit better in a size C. I would say you are on the border. Going up to the C is probably the safest - RG
I have a size C that’s in my garage for over a year now. I’m 6’1 190 and it’s too deep for me and gave me really bad side/back pain in my low left side. I wish I had gotten the B in hindsight. So there’s another opinion fwiw.
I've sat in the Karman and the Aeron side by side. There's a reason the Aeron has the accolades it has and has held them for this long. It's as close to perfect as you can get. That bar is virtually to the ceiling. Any chair cheaper than Aeron will NOT dethrone it. It is the undisputed JUGGERNAUT of mesh ergo chairs. Steelcase came very, VERY close, but it would take a chair that disregards all costs to dethrone it. With that said, if I was to buy either, it would be the Karman.
I am surprised aeron won here. On another tier list video, i remember aeron was rank F tier. Does that put Karman at F-? But karman looks so much more comfortable with all the flexibility of frane and mesh material though❤
@@btodtv the hard seat frame that cause the classic to be f-tier is still present on the remastered version right? The arm rest and lumbar support have been improved, but the hard frame, causing pressure on the thigh appears to carry over based on the design. And the mesh is still hard and plasticky compared to the karman.
I'd like to see these reviews feature the opinions of people with different builds instead of just one perspective. The average height is 5'6 which means 50% of the population is under and above.
Their tier lists do a pretty good job of that although it would be nice to include a female reviewer too for a woman/smaller person’s perspective. A few of their previews feature a woman who I think is 5’2”.
@@rennokazI heard Steelcase improved the warranty in the EU, it's now 12 years for most parts, but I'm not sure if that applies to the UK. However, it still doesn't come close to Herman Miller's warranty, and their ADs are still only interested in B2B.
Of course I would become aware of an S tier contender from steelcase right after I put in my order for a Fern... Damn. Why is this your first vid on this?
@@StardustLegacyFighterI heard Fern's build quality is somewhat disappointing for the price though. Apparently inferior to Steelcase and herman miller chairs
The arms are totally fine on Karman. Not that hard at all (maybe for kids and women can complain bout it). Build quality on Karman is also excellent, Karman's weight is half of that of an Aeron. Light does not mean flimsy. For me it is a huge selling point. I have 2 monitors and two keyboards. I often move around and Karman is much better for that. There is no mention about the mesh itself. Karman has two types of mesh and both are miles ahead of Aerons mesh. Karmans mesh feels soft as fabric but still firm as it should be.
So many chairs suck even at 1500 euro too many things that aint right...and for this kind of money you better be perfect so give me a German chairs not American.
@@StardustLegacyFighter Yeah my previous was one and my next one will be a Interstuhl too. Very good chairs and broke my first because of my anger but excellent quality for sure. And you really have to do a lot to damage them lol..
Seems like these guys are trying their very best to condemn Herman Miller. Maybe they lost their sponsorship. Or someone else is paying for this. Either way, it's looking a bit sad. Try harder guys :P
You definitely looked at the thumbnail image and just assumed that they crowned the Karman the new king of all mesh chairs. But, if you had actually watched the entire video, like Greg said, you'd knew that clearly isn't the case. There are pros and cons to both chairs, and it heavily depends on the individual using the chair, because comfort is a very subjective factor.
