So I have a RTX 3080, a Denon AVR-X2700H and a LG SM9000 Nanocell TV (it has 4x HDMI 2.1 full bandwidth 48Gbps sockets - same chipset as the B9 OLED). I'm using Belkin HDMI 2.1 (48Gbps) cables to link all 3 devices. I have tried the linking up the system like so: RTX 3080 HDMI 2.1 ---> Denon X2700H 8K Input ---> Denon X2700H 8K Output ---> LG SM9000 HDMI 2. In the TV settings I have 'Instant Game Response' set to ON, HDMI Ultra HD Deep Colour set to ON, Picture Mode set to 'Game' and HDMI 2 Input edited as 'PC.' The Denon AVR-X2700H's HDMI sockets are set to 8K Enhanced. Here are my findings with various settings when trying to run 4K 120hz with the RTX 3080 plugged directly into the AVR:- 4K 120hz 8-bit, Full RGB, SDR, G-sync OFF, V-sync OFF = Stable 4K 120hz 8-bit, Full RGB, SDR, G-sync OFF, V-sync ON = Stable 4K 120hz 8-bit, Full RGB, SDR, G-sync ON, V-sync ON = Black screen/No Signal Note: I had to pull the HDMI cable out and plug it back in again to get the picture back up. Once the image came back on, the right side of the TV screen had shifted up around 2 pixels higher than the left side of the screen. So the picture was split in half (vertically) and was uneven. 4K 120hz 10-bit, Full RGB, SDR, G-sync OFF, V-sync OFF = Black screen/No Signal/Semi Stable Once again, had to pull the HDMI cable out and plug it back in again to get the picture back up. 4K 120hz 10-bit Full RGB, SDR, G-sync OFF, V-sync ON = Black screen/No Signal/Audio Only Had to shut down the AVR completely and then power it back on to get the picture back up again 4K 120hz 10-bit, Full RGB, SDR, G-sync ON, V-sync ON = Black screen/No Signal/Audio Only Had to shut down the AVR completely and then power it back on to get the picture back up again. 4K 120hz 10-bit, 4:4:4 Limited, SDR, G-sync OFF, V-sync OFF = Semi Stable However, the colours were SLIGHTLY washed out during gaming 4K 120hz 10-bit Full RGB, HDR, G-sync OFF, V-sync OFF = Semi Stable However, the colours were VERY washed out during gaming 4K 120hz 10-bit, Full RGB, HDR, G-sync OFF, V-sync ON = Black screen/No Signal/Semi Stable Once again, had to pull the HDMI cable out and plug it back in again to get the picture back up. When the image came back up again, colours were VERY washed out during gaming 4K 120hz 10-bit, 4:4:4 Limited, HDR, G-sync OFF, V-sync OFF = Semi Stable However, the colours were VERY washed out during gaming Those Panasonic Solutions/Nuvoton chipsets are far from perfect.
Thanks for this explanation, now WHY Microsoft couldn't issue a firmware update to OUTPUT 4K120A and pass 4K uncompressed? Is it hardware limitation that wouldn't allow this?
I would argue that AV manufacturers are at fault here. TVs can handle the XSX's output just fine, so if it's up to HDMI spec, then Microsoft cannot be blamed for using something others don't.
Yeah and I think one thing glanced off of here is that while the PS5 and 3080 work with that uncompressed channel they are both bandwidth limited, or in the very least feature limited. Neither could run the full gamut of HDMI 2.1 features at that frequency reliably or at all. This might be affecting the Xbox but it's clearly in the receiver manufacturers camp to have a chip in there that can account for a wider variety of HDMI 2.1 devices.
@@IslandLooter but more importantly why are we passing HDMI through a receiver for a gaming set up?? 🤔 Wouldn't sending video directly to the display with audio passthrough the best method
@@Mike-sf7ex coz that is the way it should be connected. all the arc and earc junk means incompatibility. good luck doing it with dts signal these days. passing through something is the easiest as you would think.
@@nattila7713 are optical ports with raw/bitstream output not a thing anymore? I'm confused. Video signals take up the majority of HDMI bandwidth. IMO it's far better to send that signal directly to the display and pass audio through especially for gaming where video input latency far outweighs audio compatibility.
DSC is unnecessary at 4k 120Hz. The C9 doesn't support DSC and my Xbox Series X is sending an uncompressed signal to it. If it was a DSC issue then Denon could simple remove it from the EDID in a firmware update and no device would try sending a DSC signal to it. If the Denon was receiving a DSC signal, wouldn't it say 4K120B? The fact that it thinks it's a 4K60 signal is what seems to be wrong.
This is a great video, very clear and there are no white gloves waving about. I have the X900H and in the queue for an XBOX. I am going to hold off buying an AVR. I don't mind doing the EARC workaround but shipping the unit to be fixed will be too much of a pain. Also top tip for customers of the affected AVRs - register your device with the manufacturer - that way the device manufacturer can contact you directly for the recall.
Hello. I think the manufacturers just released a statement today confirming that the recievers work properly now? It would be great if you can do an update video please. Love your vids. I have learned so much!!! Thank you for the work that you do. Its greatly appreciated
Great work Vincent, that makes it more understandable for me ;) hopefully Sound United and Yamaha will find a workaround or fix for the Xbox Series X...
Great video on this topic. Also consider, a video looking at sound lag with Xbox Series X connected directly to the TV via HDMI, but passing sound through eArc back to receiver would be good. I tried this and get lip syncing problems and delayed sounds in video games. Need a receiver for Xbox that is compatible with 2.1 chipsets in Xbox!
Jibus... was about to buy the Denon 6700 8k receiver to use with my Xbox Series X... Now probably will need to wait for 2021 models :( Any idea when they are likely to release them? Thanks for the info!
According to ct magazine that first published this issue: There are multiple signal patterns that can be used when transmitting data with FRL. There has been a flaw in the implementation of ONE of these patterns Microsoft has chosen to use the signal pattern that is broken, so they cant send a signal Sony has chosen to use a different signal pattern so they are not affected This has nothing to do with compressed or uncompressed signals, but with DSC bandwith requirements are lower so you do not need to use FRL and can avoid the problem. Just apeculation on my side: Maybe Sony has the same broken chip in their PS5 and found out about it much earlier so they decided to avoid the problem by using a different signal pattern.
Brilliant video Vincent. Its a boost for those of us that want to output DTS signals from our PS5 knowing we can't pass them through an LG CX. - I'd also be interested to hear more about signal path, it something that's been discussed more with cables and this receiver issue as of late. You touched on it in another video and that's latency, with regards to signal path and eARC etc. I'd be interested to see the difference in input lag between having a console direct to the TV with TV sound, vs through a receiver and vs the audio being passed through eARC to a receiver or a sound bar. Many thanks.
I think the problem is that the HDMI 2.1 'standard' is actually a guideline, and not an actual standard. Imo companies should only be able to use the "HDMI 2.1 Compatible" tag if it has the FULL spec functionality. So 48gbps, VRR, eArc, ect... ALL of it, or it's NOT 2.1
The optionality of the spec is annoying and an artifact of the original 7 companies that formed the HDMI LA. Politics can even ruin technical specifications.
Series x to TV works great. Series X thru Denon, marantz and Yamaha to TV no 4K@120hz. Then the problem is the receiver...not the series X. Yamaha, Denon and marantz need updates.
HDMI 2.0 equipment were similarly bugged for the first couple of years of availability, and even then I was having some random troubles with a new Marantz SR6013 and Sony X940E TV until various firmware updates up and until 2019. I wouldn't expect a seamless experience for HDMI 2.1 until 2022 at the very earliest. Buyer beware.
Dear Vincent. Also please look at the sound lag, using Atmos - Bitream. When setting to 5.1 or DTS:X there is no Lag! ( Dts:x only work with series x directly to receiver, and the receiver has to support dts:x and you have to instal the dts app on the series x to enable dts:x. ) This only happens on the Series X and not the One X, the One X is just fine with Atmos. ( dont have a PS5 ) And when selecting 120hz on my LG C9 ( in this case series X wired directly to tv because receiver, denon X7200wa, does not support 120hz ) works but i get a vertical screen tearing line on the left of the tv! With 60 hz no problems. I have the latest firmware 05.00.03. And i use the provided hdmi cable witch came with the series x. Also used another hdmi cable, same vertical screen tearing Thanx Vincent. Gr from the Netherlands.
Yeah, DTS works on my C9 but any Dolby is around 300-500ms of lag. From my research, the shARC adapter from Thenaudio fixes all the lag. I ordered on and look forward to trying it out.
Absolutely great work here Vincent. Thank you. I have a DENON AVR-X2700H and an RTX 3080. I just need a proper HDMI 2.1 cable to test them out. Do you trust the HDMI cable test of the X2700H receiver?
Thank you for publishing this. It saved me over 700.00. Since I have the series x I will keep my 2019 denon s930h. I have confirmed the workaround does indeed work though. I have my series x connected directly to the Earc input on my lgcx55. Then I have my receiver connected into one of the other inputs on the TV. Through enabling pasthru on the additional settings menu under sound on the TV the workaround works. I just have to select tv audio on the denon receiver. Getting atmos and more importantly 4k@120htz output at the 40 bits 2.1 hdmi. However I really thank God for the capability of the TV because I think if it wasn't for the lgcx it wouldn't have worked. On a side note. When playing games. I noticed the info panel displaying the resolution and Bitstream constantly shows the fps at like 5.5 fps never going above. Previously when the Xbox was set to 4k@60htz it did infact display the correct fps. Any clue if this is a bug? If maybe lg can fix that thru a firmware update? A lot of people are seeing the same issue. Thank you so much for this video!!!
Excellent investigative work Vincent. What sounds surprising is that Microsoft used DSC for 4K120 while Sony didn’t when Microsoft has more bandwidth available vs Sony (40gbps vs 32gbps). It would appear to suggest that they should be able to disable DSC, assuming their other resolutions support uncompressed signaling as otherwise the limitation would seem odd. On another side note, the issue with consistency with the RTX card pushing the limit at 40gbps with 4K120 10bit HDR may explain why Sony downgrades 4K120 to 8bit vs 10bit/12bit (I know you suspected the readout on the LG to be wrong while the Denon was correct, but it could be the other way around potentially) as maybe the flying too close to the sun at a 40gbps cap creates issues and then the corruption issues you noticed.
@Danilo Costa Viana Thats one of the reasons Dolby created Dolby Vision. As far as HDMI 2.1 is concerned, uncompressed should have been the standard. 48 Gbps should have been the only available bandwidth. On top of that, Microsoft and Sony should have made every manufacturer aware of the chipset specs used for HDMI 2.1.
Where is stop the Fomo at ? He is always so fast to jump into conclusions lol that’s why Vincent is still the best and always be the best period no BS and actually does his research and job
Hi Mr. Teoh. Thanks for putting the finger on the exact problem. For me it's no problem as I will be using PS5 + AVR-X2700H + LG OLEDCX. However, I have a question. What is your firmware version of the AVR-X2700H? Mine says 1200-6225-7061-3085 / 3.90.50.00 and no updates available. I don't have the new screen information you have however. I live in Belgium, is that why it's not pushed yet?
Now the FRL Rate is showing. Maybe you actually need to open content that is susceptible for it. Or I changed some setting on the tv or AVR side, not sure... anyway the firmware version was not the root cause.
This is some very comprehensive material. :) Would this also be an issue when using an Samsung soundbar? Like the Q900A for instance? Or how can I look this up myself?
I watched you and Stop the FOMO for months before getting my 65” LGCX for my PS5. I feel that my purchase was overall the best deal. I watch way more shows now.
I was about to update my denon AVR because it was too old to pass through 120hz on the series x. Vincent, you just saved me some money! Are there any receivers you know of that will work?
Clearly, LG's chipset recognises and processes video signals marked as "B" and "AB" too, which the 2020 AV receivers don't. Doesn't mean DSC support needs to be in place.
@@hdtvtest Maybe the update must come from Microsoft to fix it all? I have the C9 connected straight to SeriesX and get some corrupted frames just like on this video ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-CRZczkqX2oo.html&feature=emb_logo
@@hdtvtest - Okay, now you're double talking. DSC is part of the HDMI 2.1 standard for ultra high bandwidth through compression. If the LG CX is handling an 'assumed' compressed (FRL) signal from Xbox Series X but, the TV doesn't support (DSC)...(which is new for hdmi 2.1) but, the dated chipset in the Denon isn't, one can conclude that the Denon is either incompatible with full support for HDMI 2.1 or the Xbox Series X isn't sending a compressed signal.🤷🏾♂️
Looking forward to know how the new RX 6800 cards do on LG CX. Can they do.10 bit 4:4:4 @120 Hz on LG CX. Are there any driver issues? Very important when choosing between Nvidia or AMD for LG CX owners
It makes sense. The Panasonic chip only recieves compressed hdmi 2.1 signal, and that is the "bug". Since the ps5 is using the same chip, it means that it's also sending compressed hdmi 2.1 signal compatible to the reciever. This also explains why the ps5 bandwidth is capped at 32gbps. The series x and rtx cards only send uncompressed hdmi 2.1 signal, something the reciever won't understand
Huh? The description he showed shows the ps5 and the rtx cards sending that 120a signal and looked up the definition of that "a" and it says uncompressed. What r u talking about?
@@NightmareonAnyStreet_ teoh is not explaining this well. Go watch StoptheFOMO's video. He goes way in depth about this issue and why the Panasonic chip is "compressed" and not "uncompressed" like teoh said
Vincent is actually guessing based on a severe lack of publicly available information. In this case, his theory on the usage of DSC is wrong. TBH, this issue took a long time to get fully debugged by the actual engineers involved.
As Vincent has said before; there are very few HDMI cables that have been tested to 2.1 and have a "Certified" logo. But, a "Premium High Speed HDMI cable" will be ok; just keep it down to 2 metres/6 feet long. See www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/best-hdmi-cables
The ultra certified HDMI 2.1 cable Vincent recommends is this: www.amazon.co.uk/48Gbps-Ultra-Netflix-Playstation-Samsung/dp/B07S1CGQ9Z There are also other ultra certified HDMI 2.1 cables such as this: www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B07H5Y5N55/ref=psdcmw_1338421031_t1_B07H5ZRGBR
I think it demonstrates that HDMI 2.1 needs at least another year for the manufacturers to work through the kinks, chip combinations etc, maybe this is why a lot of TV manufacturers didn’t ship 2.1 in their 2020 models (purely conjecture on my part) because if you can’t fix this stuff in firmware then the cost of making hardware fixes soon becomes prohibitively expensive.
You sir just saved me a lot of money. I was wondering if I should upgrade my 5 year old non HDMI 2.1 AVR. This settles it, will stick to the old tech until next year they iron out the kinks. Thank you!
this is the issue that a standard can potentially support many features but it does not require all manufacture to support the features or at least make sure that situation like those would not happen. same thing will be with USB 4 when its adoption will increase.
Denon has s960h which is cheapest avr with hdmi 2.1 from Denon at least for now. Yamaha has rx v6a and v4a that are even cheaper. Which one works better out of the box is another question
I have the Denon X3600h reciever. I ran my 2.1 cables from the TV to my series X and PS5 and used eARC for audio. I'm glad to see I made the right choice. Thanks Vincent for all the great info.
Davari02, do you notice any significant issues with the audio lagging behind the video in this configuration? I have the same reciever and a c9 display, still trying to get my series x.. but I will face the same situation.
@@kovert6407 I've only had this setup for 2 days and I too have a C9. I've had to restart the reciever twice because I wasn't getting the audio from the surround sound.
Vincent thanks for this video. I would just like to confirm will the Marrantz NR 1711 work for my PS5? (Demo unit was Denon) I plan to purchase a new receiver this month.
when will be a tv that combine oled perfect darkness , led / lcd brightness and avoid vertical banding , burn in issues. unfortunately companies thinking of the next resolution 8k before fixing the current issues
Thank you for the info you provide in your videos. I was curious if there was any known issues with LG CX and eARC with Denon 2020 receivers? I currently am suffering from these bugs in this particular video as I have the Series X with a LG CX and the Denon x4700H. I have not personally been successful with using eARC with this combo or arc for the matter.
The answer is no there is no problem. It was a configuration problem on my end. In short I had the "TV Audio" input hidden and was not able to select it Once I unhid it everything started working.
Great, so now I cant get a receiver, good on my ps5 but not xbox series x. Thanks vincent, always appreciate you digging up stuff like this an explaining it to normal folks.
Looks like LG pushed out a TV update to my CX today. Wondering if you know what improvements or changes it contains. Also, when you connect Series X to the CX and then to a Denon AVR via eArc, do you get lip sync issues?
Sorry for the noob question,I'm not a techy guy! :) I plan to buy the Denon avr-x2700h or avr-x3700h receiver.I will use the receiver just for watching movies on 4k UHD Blurays.I'm not a gamer,I never play Xbox or any other consoles.I would like to ask,does this bug affect me? Thanks in advance!
Hi, in your explanation, during the 3090 RTX demonstration, I have seen that your configurations on the NVidia Panel were Output colour format (RGB), colour depth (10 bpc) and and dynamic range (Limited) Are those the best configurations for nVidia cards? I am using at the moment RGB 8bpc and Full, as it seems that Full dynamic range gave my old Tv better blacks (not nowadays that I have a OLEDB9) and the name Limited always bothered me. I understand very little about chroma subsampling and I dont really know what are the best options for better image and color accuracy. I calibrated the TV to the best of my Abilities using rtings.com guide for the B9, except for the White Balance Settings that I didnt touch, because the recommended settings from rtings says that it varies between units and should be configured individually and since I dont have calibration tools, I cant really say if it is more or less accurate when trying by myself.
Vincent what do you think about these chips at the long run? What the difference between uncompressed and compressed signal? I have avc-3700h, but Im worry about future compatibility with other devices in future. Wich HDMI chip is actually right or better? Is that mean these recievers will compatible in a long run?
You might find this interesting. Since the new update for the Sony X900H dropped yesterday. When selecting the enhanced 4k 120fps signal to my PS5 (which worked fine before the update) it would not pass the sound to the tv so no sound. This also happened on the Xbox Series X but when switching the signal to standard and back again to enhanced the sound started working. Quite annoying because I just brought COD for the PS5 and now can't use the 120fps mode. Not a terrible first world problem to have but Sony have a lot of my money so I expect better testing before they send out an update.
Will a Yamaha TSR-700 (RX-V6A) work with the PS5 and a X900H? I'm debating whether on buying the Yamaha or a Sony STR-DN1080. I have a set of Sony CS-Series speakers bundle: SSCS3 Floor-Standing Speaker (2), SSCSE Dolby Atmos Enabled Speakers, SACS9 Subwoofer, SSCS8 Center Channel Speaker, and SSCS5 Bookshelf Speaker System.
@@DoABarrilRoll Dude, Videogame consoles, top tier TVs and audio recievers are for the people that can afford it, those aren't "primary necessities" as in third world countries were people don't even have clean water. Of course is a first world problem, and what's bad about it? Not everyone is the same or have the same problematics.
According to Sound United NVIDIA GPUs have an issue with their Hot Plug Detect. They only do it once. Unfortunately AVRs are really sensitive in that regard. Which is why you can run into black screen issues. If that happens you have to manually trigger a new handshake (e.g. by restarting the PC or changing turning off Ultra HD Deep Color). This issue has to be fixed by NVIDIA. They are aware of the issue. Let's see how long it will take before they can solve the problem.
Would you be able to make a video about why there is an audio delay on the latest consoles with all the latest soundbars that have eArc? (When using 4k 120hz, Dolby Atmos, VRR). Perhaps it is related.
Unfortunately, I missed the RX 6000 series being tested with this receiver. I’m curious about how it would perform due to the fact of using AMD Hardware, similar to PS5.
I have the PS5 with Sony X900H and the Yamaha RX-V4a. The Yamaha is supposed to release a firmware update for HDMI 2.1 capabilities at some point in the future. Right now I have the audio for PS5 going through ARC which is works fine.
