Hey Phil, seeing a lot of people have asked this I'll pin this comment. Every apex car is insured. There is an excess policy on each car in the unfortunate event of an accident. You can check out all this info on our price list. Perhaps I'll make a video explaining this in more detail later on for those who have questions :-)
Is it possible to obtain insurance against the excess? I appreciate the excess amount is probably due to the inherent risks of rentals for track driving but I certainly couldn't afford those amounts if the worst happened.
@@RobertMitchell So in the cases above, these people aren’t paying for the full damage to the car, they’re being helped with the insurance excess, correct? To me, if you hire a car but you can’t afford the excess if something happens, that’s pretty disrespectful to have a company put their trust in you when you know you aren’t good for it. It’s understandable if the insurance was voided and someone was unexpectedly on the hook for the whole lot, but the excesses are there clear as day before you hire. I dunno. I don’t have thousands to pay for an accident if I did have one, so I don’t go to the Ring. I’m not sure I could enjoy driving it if I was constantly worried about bankrupting myself on top of the usual ‘if I stack it I’ll be an asshole or even a dead asshole’
@@RobertMitchell Yes, please make a video explaining all about the insurance part please. Is this also why you don't have a GT3 for rental for example? Thanks.
This is why I love Apex, Robert's approach and openness. I like to hear these stories. PS: Would you consider adding some pictures or footage of a car you are talking about during the speech? I think it would look great, I am sure I am not the only one who cannot recall each car you had and would love to see them!
@@RobertMitchell -- I actually had to wipe my eyes listening to that story. This is when you know that a business isn't just a cash cow for someone and is rather there to do something good for the community.
Lots of people asking about insurance; there's some info on old document on their website (Search for "Apex_Nuerburg_price_list_rental_cars_oct17.pdf" on google and you will get more info) If I remember right the insurance is (much) more expensive than the rental itself; so most people just ignore it... It was like 400 euros to get insurance back in 2017. Insurance excess for the VW Polo GTI (DSG) in 2017: 12 999,00 € Insurance excess for the BMW M4* (DCT) in 2017: 29 999,00 € → "Insurance excess" is the maximum amount you could be liable in case of damage. Everything above the excess is insured
Mad respect that Apex is able to work out something when an accident happens, BUT, as any racer/track day person should know, never take anything to the track you're not financially able to walk away from.
This shows what you guys are all about. Not just raking in money but actually caring about people, giving them a break and making sure they don't forever live with a soured memory of the ring. I don't think I would ever rent a car, only an instructor, but for both I would definitely only come to you guys.
I still think it’s absolute madness to go out and rent a car to thrash round the Nurburgring, just because the risk of massive repair expense doesn’t seem to weigh up vs just buying your own car, but if i was ever to do it, it would have to be with Apex. You guys seem like good people.
As I’m sure our parents have said “honesty is the best policy”. You need to protect your business and true fans and customers will understand your measures.
Apex have one of the best customers service. I don't know many rental services who are so open to help and reduce the bill in case of a crash. A good advice for noobs on the ring: if you don't have money to pay for your mistakes, take a taxi lap ! It will be safer, way faster (specially with Ice cold Moritz, I'll never forget my ride with him in the 600LT) and no extra costs for a lifetime experience ! Thanks Robert and all the Apex team for being so great !
I actually tought rental car companies at the ring would cover the costs of a eventually "accident". I was wrong. This kinda turns me off going to a trackday or to the ringbut to the business perspective makes all sense. Would rather get my own track tool and deal with my own stuff honestly
@@nicksGLI Exactly. If I were ever to drive on the Nürburgring I would do it in a cheap-ish older hot-hatch. This way you would only have to pay for the crash-barrier damages and other fees related to crashing on the ring but at least you wouldn't be bankrupt.
I do remember the Clio crash as we were shortly after at the scene. Friend of us helped at the scene, reporting severe injuries, not sure to what extend, I have no further info. Hearing you guys supported him in various ways is a nice gesture but it seems not appreciated. Really don’t understand why people are this disrespectfull.
That's really fantastic how you work with those people. I feel for both parties. So cool that you helped them get back to the 'ring and not end on a downer. A lot of respect for you. Definetly above and beyond.
Robert, it is no surprise that Apex and your other business ventures are successful. You are truly a special person. The world needs more people like you! Continued success!
Came from Misha’s channel a while ago, was watching some of your videos, but now subscribed after honest talk about crash situations and how you actually think and care about your customer. I have never been in ring, but that is one of my dreams. When I will be able to come and experience it - it will surely be with Apex.
I Drive a Yaris too, did 15 Laps ob the Ring. You have do be concentraded and Push the Stick in the right direction. Than you had no problem. If you drive 99% of the Time a AT Car, better choose a other car to learn the Ring
Thanks Robert, I have a friend who has a couple of motorcycle businesses and includes rental - the team sounds similar to yours and goes out of their way, and most customers respond to that. Then occasionally an exception comes up and you catch your breath and reconsider. Regarding the exceptions as anomalies and sticking to your core values pays dividends - otherwise they can spoil the passion and enthusiasm.
This was a great video for myself who wants to visit from the US at a later date to drive a car. Obviously different country and laws it's tricky to find out how everything works over there but after discovering your channel thanks to Misha I feel much more comfortable about my trip.
Adding cameras for everyone's protection and adding value to the driving experience is a great value for everyone involved! If I am ever fortunate enough to come drive one of your cars, I just want to have an option to buy insurance ahead of time to cover everyone.
Robert, I commented this a long while back but I will reiterate: You, Misha and the Apex crew are most upstanding, moral and just all around good people. The world needs more who operate in life as you do. I cannot wait to come over to Apex and the Nurburgring just to talk and enjoy the whole experience. There must be laps!!! Thanks as always
Love the fact that you bring people who've damaged the cars back to leave them with a positive memory of the ring! That's a business that understands people and truly loves delivering the service it provides. Respect!
I'm not one for commenting on YT content, but Robert, you epitomise the way a business should be run, huge respect to you, and if I'm ever at the ring I know where I will be heading for a hire 👍
The way you handled that customers with financial difficulties is not only accomodating and courteous, but also really wholesome. i dont know you, but at least in this incident you seem to prefer the greater good to the cash & in my humble opinion this is the right way to do stuff. cheers!
Even though I have Kart racing and track day experience here in Australia, crashing was my number 1 fear when I drove your M4. I was meant to drive the M2, but someone had binned it prior, your team then graciously upgraded me to the M4 at no extra charge (another element of these crashes that you can't recoup). I really had to hold myself back with how hard I naturally wanted to drive that car. I had to keep in mind that it was my first time around "The Ring" and Driving the M4 on the other side of the world (and the other side of the car).... Having Misha's instructions for my laps gave me a great experience, I hope to come back and spend more time there when ever the global pandemic situation will allow. You guys are the class of the motoring world! keep it up!
Exactly what I was wondering. I imagine any insurance would have a very high excess but that would be better than covering the whole cost in the event the car is totalled!
@@gbgt2 It seems if you total an apex car and it’s not your fault, you are liable to repay back the entire value of the car. Why would they not offer insurance? Other companies do.
I remember being there when the guys with the clio happened, thankfully as you say they are the minority and its a testament to you guys how you deal with the genuine people!
Jesus man I would not be taking out any of those cars unless I was confident that I was fully covered. I have no idea if insurance is available or how it works there though.
I thought you guys got insurance to cover accidents.. 🤷 To be honest as a first time on the track I wouldnt be comfortable to get into sport car without knowing it is no.insurance for me there..
They do have their cars insured but their insurance policies are connected with relatively high excesses. If you have a look at their homepage: The Polo GTI has as an example an excess of 12999€. I believe that's gotta be okay considering the fact that insuring a rental for this type of usage can't be cheap. I read between the lines of Roberts crash stories that they obviously charge you the full repair bill if it is cheaper then paying the excess.
Interesting topic - I had assumed that renting the cars included insurance so that if you damaged them, the insurance would cover. I didn't realise that if you crash the car you have to pay potentially thousands to repair.. What happens to damage to the track, is I've heard horror stories where armco bills have run into thousands too??
What I gather from this, you potentially have to pay tens of thousands which is brutal if you just came for a fun lap on a holiday. Better just crash your own car, at least the insurance pays for it...
@@kobbetop While I think that these stories worked out pretty well, I think after hearing this I'd rather take my own car and maybe get an instructor lap. If I crash my shitbox little of value is lost, propably less than 5k in car damage (potentially plus ring damage?). That's a risk I'm somewhat willing to take, but risking paying for a heavily modified almost new track car? That could ruin your life for years ahead in the future if you aren't a big earner.
Yes agreed. I'm glad Robert made that video, it's definitely making me think twice before renting a car on the Nurburgring. I was already somewhat worried about the huge amounts you had to pay if you caused a track closure for example but this is the final nail to the coffin. I guess you have to be rich to truly enjoy the Nurburgring 😕
Another great video and really important for anyone renting. Pleased to see your covering the Insurance aspect of this as it's so important. This whole area is key aspect to driving at the Ring for me. My road car insurance now specifically bans it as somewhere to drive :(
This is why Robert and the Apex crew are the best. If you own up to your mistakes you can probably get a break. Running away is probably the worst thing you can do in that situation. Also no one is gonna judge the guys who crashed and owned up. Meanwhile everyone is going to remember 'John' as that dbag who crashed, injured himself, his friends and just "ran". You will make things worse for yourself if you do this sort of thing. Robert I tip my hat to you for treating the real ones like that. You are truly a great person.
Not just good business values, but also great people values. Sometimes more important than any financial situation. Good on you for helping someone and having a positive impact in their lives, even if they had a negative impact on your wallet. You seem like a genuine man Robert. Getting settled here now, cooking great meals again and having a place to call home with doggo happy and tail waggy as usual. In my dream house on the salt water shore non the less.. all just from great people with great values. An amazing and giant stepping stone to a much needed rebuild and successful future for myself. Bullying isn't OK at any age and leaves scars some people don't recover from. Be kind.
I’ve always said APEX will be the only place I give my business too if I ever get to the Nurburgring because of how Robert runs it. Absolute legend of a guy!
Hey Robert :) I´m once more absolutely stunned by how you handle your business and what kind of personality you have. Seeing all the things you do really does help bring and keep people in this hobby, no matter how hard they screw up. We all f**k up at some point but having someone like you guys/girls who are there in this moment really makes a difference I guess. More people sould take you as a role model (even though I dont think you want to hear that ;P ) and learn how to deal with shitty situations on a mature level. PS the clio storry somehow makes me wana join the apex team. Thx for being as aweome as always and have a great day :)
I'm shocked that there isn't already a sort of dashcam already installed with a g force meter, rev recorder etc... You must have a lot of faith in your customers, people will take advantage. Sad to hear about people being scumbags, hoping you have better luck in the future!
Are you not insure with your fleet ? Like a normal renting company ? Just pay the up front caution for the customer and the rest by the insurrance ? Super interesting topic 😊👍🏼👍🏼
They are, but the insurance excess is a lot higher than for normal road legal cars. For the M4 it‘s 30000 €. You can see it when looking at the rental cars on the Apex Website
love the way you treat your customers. like no extra charge for camera footage from the yaris. really refreshing way of doing things. would defo come to you guys first.
Very informative. I always guessed there would be an insurance for this with an excess to pay.the thought of owing for a whole car after an incident is quite frightening.
You can check the excess on the website when you‘re viewing „car details“. E.g. Yaris is 25k€. People should realize things like that maybe before they grab the wheel.
@@SimonEbener suprising Robert didn't address this, as through as he usually is. and with that one more question, Are you saying the first $25,000 of damage the renter is responsible? thanks
@@craftsoda I can only read whats written down at the website. Usually - but we talk about street rental now - you can book (extra charge) a cdw/ldw (collision or loss damage waiver) which restricts your own risk. I dont know if thats possible in this case. Team member can explain it best :)
We all come across these "Johns" at various points in our lives. You just gotta move on, knowing that your pain is only temporary, while that other guy is miserable for the rest of his life, because he's fundamentally a prick.
This is what Makes Apex different from others. You give them respect, you get respect. I got a similar thing. An instruction lap in my mx5 and on 3/4 of the lap a sensor malfunction and the engine cuts out. It was my first lap of 4 with instruction. Afterwards they told me i could get my Laps till end of the year. To bad i hadnt the time to Come back. But the gesture was super nice.
It's really inspiring to see how you're compassionate and place overall customer experience first, so much so that sometimes it leave you out of pocket. Also, I hope the Yaris stays on the road, but it'll be interesting to see how you go about determining who'd be responsible to blowing up the engine, say if the most recent customer didn't actually over rev and in fact a customer 5 laps ago did - similar to what happened to yourself where the Yaris went bang after 5 laps.
Crazy stories! On the ring i always drove a car which i can easily afford to throw away. If you have to think about the money it's not fun. The same if you got a car which you can't replace easily. I know one guy who took away two GT3 RS. He had to wait for many months to get a new one and was pissed of that.
Really useful information again. Nobody intends to crash (I hope) or deliberately wreck an engine. I think this will also have another benefit to your customers, if there is an accident or engine/mechanical problem that is totally not their fault they will also have the evidence. Absolutely nothing wrong with trusting people, but it has to work both ways. George’s channel is great by the way, just what we needed to finish of the full picture. Reminds me I need to go and thank him😁
When I rented from the Burgstube hotel some years ago they plugged the device in the odb port to monitor for over reving. Don’t see it as a problem and made me respect the car more.
Moral: don't rent these cars unless you can afford to stomach a total loss. I think its pretty poor these guys don't have an insurance policy option for customers.
other rental companies have it. I would never rent a car when I'm liable for 20 or 30k, but hey. people seem to do this. maybe they don't read the terms and conditions. my last rental on the ring was a 330i, and the excess was limited to about 5k, booking additional insurance. that is reasonable in my opinion.
Am I missing something..what's the insurance excess on your cars? 20k bill for running over curbs in an f82 is hardly a fair compensation for something that is expected to rip out like the oil cooler lines in a situation like that.
How about a community insurance? You could charge 5% extra per round, the money of all cars goes to a bucket. If someone crashes and there was no gross negligence you could support the customer with, lets say, 50% of the actual amount of that bucket, but a maximum of 75% of the damage. This could help reduce the financial burden of the individual that is so unfortunate to crash.
In Germany we have a saying: Wie man in den Wald hinein ruft, so schallt es auch wieder heraus. Basically how you shout into the woods is how the woods shout back at you. --> If you admitt your faults and are responsible the peole treat you well...most of the time. / Originally it means how you treat others is how they treat you...but as sayings are..they are valid for more than one occaision, I believe. ;-)
Robert you are such a down to earth decent guy - respect to you and the Apex team, so many other companies would hire lawyers to recoup all costs let alone just the car like lost income, time spent dealing with it etc. Heartwarming that you work with clients even a free tuition lap and hotel wow well done - Honesty is the best policy and you and Apex are tantamount to that, just like the GR Yaris video you are so honest and down to earth you have my and many others peoples respect - Well done.
I love how you resolved these problems. I remembered when I got a bill for a damaged rental ( not on the ring ), it was 600 euros for a dent I didn't do ( a lot of money for a small dent tbh ). I told them I didn't hit anything during my rental period and I had taken a photo of the car around 40 mins after I picked up the rental where the dent was already there. They didn't believe me. This was probably my mistake on the negotiation, but I was just tired of dealing with it and just paid their offer of 450 euros. I'm not mad but it left a bad taste in my mouth. And obviously I'm not coming back to them. The story could've gone better. I love how you value the long term relationship with your customers, and not having people leaving Apex/ Nürburgring with bad experiences.
That sucks man, why couldn't you just send them the pics you took showing the damage and the phone number of your lawyer? If they wanted further proof all the photos (if taken with cell phone) have a date and time tags so you could prove it to them. I wouldn't want to pay for something I didn't do, it's not fair.
@@bokiNYC I never even thought about getting a lawyer ( I'm a student ) I did send them the photo but they argued it was 40 minutes after I took the car ( which it was, but I had no earlier photo ). I'm naturally non confrontative and I didn't know anything else to say, and neither had I the energy to argue, so I just let it go. Not my problem anymore. It sucks that I lost 450 euros and was left a bad taste in my mouth, but it's in the past anyways.
also I once had a manufacturer paying for a gearbox I blew up under warranty, which was probably more than what I paid for that rental. Karma strikes I guess 😝
To pay their excess cost, check out the price list and rental terms. If you don’t crash there will be no excess to pay but If you crash then there is an excess to pay. The renter should be covering that cost, not the vehicle owner. It’s no different to a Hertz rental car, well actually yes it is.. Hertz would not be so kind and compassionate as to offer a payment plan to the customer! Apex are just pure class.
Robert, you're a stand up guy and i very much respect you for helping these people out. Your stories make me shudder inside just thinking about being liable for potentially 10's of thousands of Euro. I just couldn't do it to myself. Yes, i'd love to come and drive one of your cars but i wouldn't be able to fully enjoy it because there would be a little voice in my head saying, don't crash don't crash don't crash the whole lap 😂
The openness with which you deal with these issues is definitely a massive positive about choosing Apex. I don't plan to crash any of your cars but I would feel better if I did so (than anyone else's)...
I drove behind the red cupra when it crashed in the first corner. I could not believe it. Good to hear he was a “you break it you pay it” kinda guy. Cheers
I am really impressed by the honesty and clarity that you share with us. If most of the companies try to take an example from you will be great. Customer service at its best!
It's good to hear you guys doing your best to meet people halfway, but yeah, it seems I'll stick with passenger laps if I ever do get to come by a miracle. I don't think I would be able to concentrate on full enjoyment with the potential cost hanging over my head, I'd just be constantly thinking "Don'tCrashDon'tCrashDon'tCrashDon'tCrashDon'tCrashDon'tCrash."
Good on you to cut some of the guys a break, but why were they driving a car they couldn't afford to crash in the first place? If I was getting into an M4 with expensive carbon bits on it and I knew I couldn't afford to wreck it, I probably would be driving it as a rolling road block to everyone else. I've never actually rented a car but whenever I looked at a list of rentals I basically went straight for the value/deductible to see which ones I could afford to write off.
Really interesting video and all I can say is, I wish every company on this planet had the same moral compass and ethics as you guys do. You are an example to all 👍🏼
I think I was at Apex the day the Clio crashed If it was the summer of 2019. If I remember correctly, they had to cut the car open and like a can of tuna and they were airlifted out of there. I remember getting back to the Apex office and Bruno told us about the incident and told us to be super careful. And then we talked about how that was the worst day of the year by far with all the track closures. I think there were well over 10. The green hell delivers
The cost of repair is the major reason I didn’t rent a car from you when I last went to the Nurburgring, I have no idea how I would find that amount of cash. But I would love to have a couple of laps of instruction from your guys and that’s exactly what I’ll be doing next time! I have to say, when we were there, my Friends S5 suffered a clutch failure and we popped in to ask if your team knew if any garages that could help, and they were super helpful! 👍🏻
Hello Robert, as someone who has been thinking for a while about getting into the "fun cars rental business" here in Japan, I have a quick question for you... Considering that the cars will be rented out, and in regards to that M4 crash, wouldn't it be more judicious to avoid add-ons like expensive wheels or carbon fiber splitters and similar aero/lightweight/styling mods that mainly just raise the bill when a crash occurs? Back when you did taxi laps, I understand the importance of cool looking mods as a promotion tool for the company, for cars that remain in the hands of people who know what they are doing... But rentals? Either way, enjoying the channel and your stories/point of views, so thank you for all that! Cheers, Flavien
This is a very reasonable approach to it Robert but the risk of crashing someone else’s car simply isn’t worth it for me and I would never rent a car for a lap. Damaging a 20k euro car would ruin me financially. I’d still love to come and spectate other cars at the ring this summer
The story with the Clio - And your way of helping this guy out. Is outstanding. That tells a lot if how clever you run your business, but also your dedication to make sure your clients have a great experience. Renting out cars at a race track must be high risk business. And how do you take the risk out of that.. If you actually can. Have a great day
Respect to you for taking the time putting time stamps. In reality I’m going to watch the video regardless of how long it is😂. Also I must say I love the mutual respect from apex and the customers. Screw that dude who crashed and left smh.
Great stories and a great philosophy for business 👍 Don't think I'd rent a car because I know I can't afford it if things go wrong Damn sure I'm visiting Apex for an instruction lap in my own car tho
Wow, impressed by your story Robert. Your a cool guy, I’m jealous for your relax way of thinking and acting! Still need to visit the nordschleife, the best track in the world. When I do I would love to book a taxi ride with your special Porsche driven by you or Misha.
Hey Robert I got a great idea for a video for George, Misha and you. Have all three do a hot lap basically but show all at the same time. To compare how each brake and accelerate through the corners. It would interesting to see the lines you each take and to compare driving styles. I put it on George's video yesterday he liked the idea. Honestly it could be turned a instructional video that people at T.F. could watch to learn track lines.
