He Was SAVED... But It All Went Horribly Wrong: The New Raid's Alternate Story 

She also dies again, becaue if you don't spare Thordan she gives you the buff to kill an eye.

@@OliveEaters but not sparing Thordan results in a wipe because you can’t reach the final boss right? So that would mean she would still live technically

@@Harrowing999 She presumably dies either during or before phase 6 of the fight in the alternate timeline because her ghost appears to give you the buff. Haurchefant's doesn't appear because he hasn't died. You wipe because one of the eyes is invulnerable without the buff from Haurchefant's ghost.

@@Harrowing999 she would still be dead nothing would technically change

@@Harrowing999 The only way you can save Estinien is with Ysale and Haurchefant's help. In the Ultimate you get a buff from the spirits of both that lets you damage the eyes. Since they're alive in the branching timeline, and if Thordan is dead, the eye phase starts normally but you're unable to damage them, and in the end wipe.

Yep

Good.

its sad that had Quinn actually gave the game a fair shake he would probably be playing today.

@@DireFoxIIC I wouldn’t call it fair. Skipping everything to get to the current content instead of going at it slow and learning like most others.

@@BadaBadger Read the comment you replied to again.

@@BadaBadger read dude... also he didn't get to current content he skipped to the last story trial in stormblood and got his ass beat because he knew nothing.

And sparing Thordan makes sense story-wise too. Haurchefant not dying not only means that we don't have the personal motivation urging us to go stop Thordan in Azys Lla, but also that we don't have a need to avenge him by killing Thordan.

@@HanabiraKage That's tough, because we still need to stop him becoming un Uber primal and wrecking all the work we've been doing to help Ishgard. So story wise we still should have chased him right away. Especially knowing (by Thordans own admission) that the ascians were involved. We didn't chase him only because he killed our friend. Them implying that was kind of strange. We already had two major reasons to rush out there and stop him. Haurchenfant was just a very painful third reason. That kicked us in the gut while we were already desperate and in a rush.

@@noxelohim On the contrary, him being a primal is not a good reason enough. Ysale is a primal, and she actively uses it, for our own benefits so she gets a pass somehow? Thordan may be "in league" with the Ascians, but unlike Gaius, he knows full well the treachery of the Ascians, and even tells the WOL about it that he plans to deal with them and ask for your cooperation. The reason a primal is even a threat is because they drain the land's aether and temper people. Thordan as a primal doesn't need to do either, he already has the power of the eyes, alongside an ascian soul to draw limitless aether, and he doesn't need to temper people because he already has thousand years of prayers from the Ishgardian Faith. He's practically one of the most eco-friendly primal. The only real other reason is the dragon issues, but that's because you have been listening mostly to Hrae's version of events. The original Ishgardian wronged the dragons yes, but guess who was the one that escalated the slaughter for thousand of years? The dragons. And Hrae, nor any other dragons did anything about it. They just flee and afk in their little haven while watching newborn dragons get sent to die in a war they have no clue is about thanks to Nidhogg. And this problem is not unique to Ishgard, almost pretty much all three city-states of Eoazea is built upon some, as Gaius said, cob-web of lies, beast tribes have their landes robbed or threatened, The Twelve was summoned as a primal to deal with the Bahamut problem when it felt needed. It is a hypocrisy when you think about it . Now we may still go to Asyz La, but our goal is not to murder or kill Thordan, to the WOL's gallant heart and mind, he's misguided, confused. Just like Ysale. The issue we have against him is not on a personal level. Thordan didn't really do anything wrong personally to us because at the end of the day, he's doing what his forbearers have been doing. And his cause is way more just than say, a bunch of pirates who rob lands of beast tribes and brag about how awesome they are about it. Or some pototo who threatens the land by betraying the Scion and forces us to go on Heavensward's journey in the first place.

@@peerawat9x "The Twelve was summoned as a primal to deal with the Bahamut problem when it felt needed. It is a hypocrisy when you think about it " Especially when you consider that the summoning was being carried out by the greatest advocate against summoning and primals in the modern age lol.

@@noxelohim tbh we didnt know he was a primal until the singularity reactor, so no real reason to chase

They are making the msq a completely single player experience if you want it to be

I'm not convinced of that. I think the FFXIV MSQ, even in the future when they make it possible to uses trusts for every fight, only works as an MMO. TL;DR version is that the communal nature of the experience, sharing those impactful moments with others, watching them experience them for the first time, is a MASSIVE part of what makes it work. Even if we play it alone, we enjoy it as a community. Longer Version: This is a story that has been ongoing for 8 YEARS, in 3-4 month increments. I think that only works because the rest of the more traditional MMO side of the game is there to flesh out the little bits of characterization and setting in addition to MSQ, and the community is there to actively discuss and share in their enjoyment and play the content together and generally engage with the world and it's fiction together, in a way that makes the long timescale feasible for the story. If we didn't have the MMO community to share this story with, and the extra flavor that the non MSQ content lends to the MSQ, it wouldn't be as fun, or as interesting, or likely, have ever been made, since you could never make an 8 year live service game with major story updates for a singleplayer one time purchase title.

apart from all but 1 trial all dungeons in the game have a solo mode, with npcs for other players. So the game is practically soloable at this point

@@mukulvdhiman not quite yet 2.x msq dungeons and Heavensward and Stormblood msq dungeons aren't yet built to use the duty support system. In 6.2 supposedly we will get duty support for Snowcloak, Keeper of the Lake, Sohm Al and The Eyrie. 6.3 most likely the rest of the 3.0 msq dungeons. 6.4 Heavensward patch msq dungeons (6.1 only had sidequest dungeons so there's 4 of them) 6.5 will probably get 4.0 dungeons (level 63 is optional so no duty support) Maybe the Stormblood patch dungeons will be done in 6.55 or maybe in 7.0 The only issue is the trials, whether they will make duty support for all the 8 man msq trials

@@FF-tp7qs ahhh i didnt know they didnt add those

or ya know... a fallen piece of azys lla

@@rinnnnnnnnnnrin Why would it be Azys Lla? Surely you mean Dalamud?

@@rinnnnnnnnnnrin It couldn't be from Azys lla, because Azys lla is above the Sea of Clouds in Abalathia region of Eorzea, Aery is in the Churning Mists in Dravania area, miles to the north-west.

@@AlexAnder-bc8kg *malms to the northwest

I seriously doubt Nidhogg entirely knew the true purpose of the Neurolink. It just all seems too convenient cuz why wouldn't he have utilized it after his shade snatched Estinien? He should've felt compelled to enslave Hraesvelger if he had a Neurolink he knew how to use prior to his final invasion on Ishgard. My theory is that Thordan had more time to investigate Allagan technology on Azys Lla to plan out his attack on the Churning Mists which the Eyes retained knowledge of, one of them being about the Neurolinks which Thordan wasn't aware was located in The Aery. After Thordan was defeated and was forced to abandon the Ascalon sword to retreat, Nidhogg's shade took over Estinien as preordained and utilized what he learned in Azys Lla to control Hraesvelgr.

And papalmo not giving his life to seal him away

You can't stop the eyes because Ysayle and Haurchefant are alive so they can't give you an amp lol Thordan becoming the new vessel just has the added and unintentional effect of saving Estinien which is hilarious

No stormblood means no meeting Zenos, means no shadowbringers, means Emet still out there, the rejoigning probably happens, and guess what. Black rose gets used and you die. I think thats something they might come back to in a later ultimate or something.

@@Karami42 it would be cool if the ultimates turned into these alternate route scenarios.

No Shinryu means no one to save you from the Endsinger if that timeline even gets that far.

the ward could already transform before arriving in azys lla, they just didn't have a reason to. Without us to do the dirty work for him, he'd just transform alongside his knights in the sea of clouds and dunk bismarck with ease

it really is like it's Doctor WoL and the multiverse of Dragons...

I mean, I’d have loved that. XD

No, because then that’d be a tumblr meme fic

I hope so! They've already been what if scenarios story-wise, but this is the first time they took that bit of fluff and actually leaned into it and made it part of the fight. It's such a unique and cool thing, I hope it becomes the norm.

OH FK I want that Zenos theory one, I'd love to do that! I imagine we're goin down into the darkside Anakin style, and the last boss could be Raubahn powered by Rhalgr himself. That'd be epic.

I really would love a Zodiark Ultimate where he's fully rejoined, maybe even with Elidibus or Emet-Selch as his core depending on the alt scenario.

Tsuyu deserved better. Maybe now she can get it, even if it's only a "what if?" in an ultimate.

What if Louisoix didn't kill Bahamut?

We also saw some floating Towers while our progress. But overall just a Placement Hotfix and not a difficulty Scaling.

But it never went as far as: "Oh crap they're cheesing a mechanic, let's just patch that method out" during progression that essentially sabotaged a World First team's pace lmao

It's gotten a number of people in my FC motivated to join in on Savage raid practice. :D

Good luck in raid! Always happy to see more players giving raids and ultimates a shot :)

Hell yea man. Have fun with P4S Part two. Its a fun one.

It really, really was. One thing Matt didn't mention but I've seen a few streamers talk about, was how much the community in Twitch chat played into the fight as well. It was challenging enough that in some cases chatters were able to pick out mechanics that the raiders were struggling with, and provide suggestions and thoughts. It really was an event that could engage every level of player, and that's astounding.

@@kendric99 so true I was following Arthars specifically seeing him clearing it brought tears to my eye the dude once said this might be his final earnest chance to give it his best because he can start to feel his age (40+ years old and 2 kids)

That 'anyone can do it' is what I love about FF raids and trials. Yes, they can be hard. But the way the fights are set up make it so that even if you screw up, it's not a wipe. The whole fight is a learning experience right up until you win.

It can genuinly be hard. But its so cool tho. I cleared my first alexander raid this week and yes, we been wiped at least a dozen tomes troughout. But the Raid was so worth it. It was so good!

Save him STRUMMER

even UCOB is a "what-if" scenario in a sense. iirc the way it's explained by the minstrel, it's supposed to be a hypothetical situation where the WoL wasn't able to get to Bahamut in time, and so you're effectively fighting him, Twintania and Nael all at their most powerful at the same time.

@@Aaron.Arcanum the piano interlude during that phase is just haunting.

4 lords, rhythm game ultimate lol

I mean.... thordan becomes a primal... thats the whole reason we would have to fight him regardless as the warrior of light. A.k.a EIKON slayer.

DAN DAN

ONE OF MY STUDENTS DIDNT COME

I hope you can try it someday!

@@seekittycat It is a dream but unable

@@yabiyabi I will say, I never thought I'd do on content savages even as late as E12. I got my P1S clear week one. I'm primarily an RPer. You can do it, it'll just take practice, time, and patience with yourself. Never say never.

@@lexysteinberger7725 savage is not so difficult ^^ I started O9s I qued thinking it is 'extreme'.......as new player...haha. I studied and cleared (with much effort and 3 months ) all and so I do savage, I do not think is comparable....I cannot do this because I cannot join fixed group. Because people look at logs and I like my privacy so I hide it. (I got harassed to no disgusting end) now I am ridiculed for hiding so .... it's sad reality. I am happy yoshi-p understands. :( alaso thank you for encouragement. I am sure I could do it....... I just cannot do without fix group ^^

Not only this, but since it's a "what if" story, that means that the events of Dragonsong Reprise are not canon - they're just one possible way the events could have unfolded had Haurchefaunt lived - told through a song from the Wandering Minstrel's imagination. And that's what really distinguishes the Coils from today's Ultimates and Savages. The Coils actually are canon (in fact, the MSQ treats you as completing the Coils even if you haven't), which means that they're important to complete, even if by using unrestricted party options. But the stories in the Ultimate are speculative "what ifs".

@@powerofk its literally yoshi P's self-insert character writing a fan fiction and then singing about it to you xD

@@powerofk Yeah I feel like alternate "what if" scenarios being locked behind endgame content is fine, just nothing pertaining to the main game's story like the final coils did.

fate calibration was literally just "we dont show you the mechanic until you datamine whats up with this add"

@@ich3730 Except there was nothing to be datamined. They categorized it as a vuln up to fool the people doing it in the first place so people literally had to figure it out

it ain't that deep lol.. I see what u mean but idk I think you just gotta have fun with it

Minstrel figured it'd make a better story.

thordan only says 'go. azys lla awaits.' to his airship's pilot after haurchefant was struck by the spear, if he watched his lackey's attack 'completely fail' (cos tank LB) he'd probably say something more like 'what the fuck how' and so we'd never learn he's going to azys lla, and he/his knights would just gtfo since they have an airship and we dont. that'd give them time to amass some strength again, to use their primal forms to kill bismarck to get the key unopposed at least thats how i see it

These things wouldn't really bother me if other people weren't saying them as reasons for post-Haurchefant saving phases so authoritatively, because their logic doesn't make sense to me.

@@Boyzby Unfortunately, people are just so into butterfly effect stories (which was an awesome movie, bot to watch it in theaters), and because most what if scenarios before that movie involved happily ever afters, they're just so ready to accept bad endings without going back through the story and critically analyze every plot point in multiple viewpoints to see what actually would be changed and what wouldn't.

And yet, AND YET, you know with the track records these mad, brilliant bastards have, they're gonna top it.

@@lexysteinberger7725 tbh but only in Terms of Difficulty. Because overall i still prefer UCoB over UwU and TEA when it comes to Fight Design. Yes Perfect (Megazord) Alexander is cool looking but thats all. But DSR has good Story, Relevant Lore, a Really cool idea with the whole Timeline Stuff AND is freaking Hard. I dont think they gonna Top this Ultimate for a very Long Time also because the whole Dragonsong War is for most people still the Peak of FF14 Storytelling. Maybe in 2-3 Expansions when we get a Hydalyn/Zodiac Themed Ultimate. With Perfect Endsinger ^^

I wish you and your group alot of good luck :D

If they can do Twintania they can definitely do P1S and P2S with almost no difficulty. Maybe not P3S right away but given time for sure.

@@thisismyyoutubecommentacco6302 yeah! I was super excited for them, and hopefully they'll be down to do more in the future :)

Also the error was occurring only server-side, so it was just fixed live

XD i wonder if they actualy could? They don't posses the echo... are they therefor not vulnerable to being thralled?????

@@cherrydragon3120 They're already tempered by Thordan. Once someone is tempered, they cannot be re-tempered by another Primal.

It's really not cryptic at all. Arthars who is part of the clips featured and part of Team Krile who is World #5 clear skipped the majority of HW story, but was able to figure out pieces of the mechanics just by reading some of the dialogue and just figuring out how the mechanics get weaved together. What is pretty awesome is that Arthars' interest in HW story was rekindled and he is now planning to do New Game + to experience it. Even just watching the Ysayle and Haucherfaunt clips had him tear up and he still didn't have all the context. This Ultimate is just fantastic.

I am not saying the tank lb happening right now is cryptic. Even primal awakening in uwu is not that cryptic a puzzle for me. I am saying they CAN make cryptic mechanics for ultimates so the world first raiders, to do anything in order to win, will have to check out the related story. Therefore hitting 2 birdies with a stone

the content on this channel does seem to lag behind generally ://

@@FrankysABoysName I imagine they're working on several videos at once, as well as doing their regular several-hour-long podcast and developing a game, on top of actually playing the MMOs!

There is a reason why its on the number 1 spot right now. And already been since endwalker

In the Binding Coil of Bahamut raid series, you'll find Twintania, a dragon collared with the same sort of Allagan device Hraesvalgar is forced to wear. Allagans in the past fought against a nation led by Dragons, which led them to developing technology to capture and harness Primals and Dragons.

@@MythrilShotgun Well I know that, but how did that happen to Hraesvalgar or is that a "it just happened offscreen for the sake of the Ultimate" type of thing?

@@AoiKaze2000 Offscreen, though there's enough in the game to connect the dots, like the Allagan relic in the Aery and how they've been used in the past to surmise.

@@MythrilShotgun There was a relic in the Aery? It's been ages since I've done Heavensward (did it upon release), so my memory of that part is rather hazy.

Makes it really sad tho :(

Elidibus. With part of the fight mechanics being each phase has him bringing champions from every previous FF game.

I mean; if they do what they did here… could start with shortened versions of Lightwarden fights, then fight Hades, then Elidibus/WoL.

"Saga of the ancients" would be an awesome thing man, an ascian themed ultimate

Technically, yes. The events here don’t lead us to Stormblood. We never meet Zenos. Varis ruins the world with Black Rose which leads to our death. With us dead, we never travel to Elpis to learn of Meteion

@@Harrowing999 I haven't finished the video. Does it touch on the fact that estinien and alphinaud may have died when thoriden gets the red eyes

@@Xilibrius neither of them die. Before Thordan finishes transforming Alphinaud gets back up and carries Estinien to safety

@@Harrowing999 Okay I couldn't tell since I saw Alphinaud run to grab him as he was transforming but could never see in any of the footage of people running it if he got away before the attack goes off.

​@@Harrowing999 It would still somehow happen. Somehow, some way, the Warrior of Light has to travel back in time to meet Venat, or the story doesn't happen. I'd assume that even without Shinryu being created, post-black rose world's garland ironworks would still figure out how to send Graha to the past, which leads to an unaltered Shadowbringers Interesting to think that if Zenos dies for good because Resonant was never research and the major Ascians are all killed, if Varis would feel less helpless and actually side with the Alliance.