Look! I did another collab video with @councilofgeeks its almost like I'm a proper RU-vidr and everything!! Council of Geeks - / @councilofgeeks / stubagful
this was an artistic response to the difference between ClassicWho & NuWho. Stu should have had a light above his head that flashed when he spoke. And a massive joint before he filmed.
True. Warriors of the Deep is an adequate script ruined by horrendous production and direction. Hell Bent is an atrocious script that can't be saved by the competent production.
Two of the best Doctor Who RU-vidrs collaborating with each other again, talking about one of the worst Classic Who stories? Yes please, I can hear these two talk about anything all day.
Wait. In the twice upon a time review it was revealed that Steven Moffats massive massive brain is actually the living flesh supercomputer. And now it is revealed that Stuart is secretly the living flesh supercomputer. Does that mean Stuart is secretly Steven Moffats massive massive brain.
In all fairness, Moffat's massive massive brain is an all en-composing entity that envelopes all of time and space in every conceivable timeline, so really we are all part of the living flesh supercomputer.
I think in defence of the bad cliffhanger I think it's probably Turlough's quick cowardice talking, as he actually is a innocently meek and cowardly political prisoner who got in too deep with the Black Guardian at the end of the day... either that or it's still the shellshock effects of the Black Guardian talking...
I cannot lie I remember seeing this as a young kid when it was first on and loving every minute - edge of sofa when the Doctor went into the chair for whatever brain thing it was...........I doubt I could stomach it as a grown man however......just proof that "Dr Who is for kids" worked well for me in that era
hahahah - well I was a kid at the time and loved it - so you can add "kids" to it, or class me as one of those categories, whichever you prefer........I havent seen it as an adult of course
I'm pretty sure the overuse of action sequences was a Saward thing. Johnny Byrne was more than happy to write lots and lots of talky, over-dramatically meaningful scripts, if his work on Space: 1999 was anything to go by. Also, Space: 1999 had a budget. Can you imagine the monster from Dragon's Domain being done on classic Doctor Who money? It'd look like the Mandrels from Nightmare of Eden.
I believe in Byrne's original script there were some more character scenes involving crew in a recreational setting that had to be cut for time. But definitely in Byrne's original script, the woman who died taking a bullet for the Doctor in the chemical store, and the commander who's shot in the back during the final countdown were both actually meant to live. Infact the final scene was going to be the Doctor saying goodbye to them by the Tardis and telling them they need to find 'another way' concerning their cold war that nearly brought them to armageddon here.
A Stubagful cinematic universe, you could say. Yeah I know I could have done better, but come on! Making this joke was easier than shooting a fish in barrel, that was already fucking dead.
Wow, never realized The Doctor committed genocide in Warriors of the Deep. This is really messed up considering how disturbed he looked after UNIT (I think) bombed the Silurians at the end of the their debut story.
How's it messed up? Once he released the gas they were perfectly free to withdraw. If they were determined to stay to the bitter end that's their own fault. Hardly comparable to the Brigadier indiscriminantly blowing them all up in their beds. The only messed up part is that the Doctor didn't use the gas sooner. He would've saved more lives if he had.
Michael Grade was such a hater of the show, that after the hiatus, Trial of a Time Lord went the meta route and had The Doctor going on trial against his peers (the Time Lords/the audience) whilst the Inquisitor (the BBC) decided his ultimate fate against a prosecutor that had him out for him because he had a personal hatred of him. The fucking Valeyard was based on Michael Sodding Grade!
Classic Dr Who is a bit like those pictures where there's a black section and a white section and if you focus on one, you see one shape and if you focus on the other, you see something else. Imagine watching Genesis of the Daleks and focusing on things like...the nuclear war between enemies who are walking distance apart...the fact there's a moon rocket aimed up at space to hit a target a mile away across flat ground...the Doctor wanting a cup of tea from aliens on a planet where they think there's no life in the rest of the Universe...the orange clam which is completely inanimate yet eats Harry's leg...in the case of Warriors, people have been focusing on the weaknesses of it since day one, which is a pity, as there's a very unusual story about the Doctor in there. He's quite internally blocked by the way things went in the past and has a real off day as a result. It takes his companions to sort him out in the end. Davison gives an interesting performance with it, too.
Any chance of the both of you doing 'Vengeance on Varos' at some point? It's literally the ONLY Season 22 story that actually works, imo, and I just REALLY want to see you two discuss the one true classic of the Sixth Doctors' sadly much-maligned era... 😊😊😊😊
Attack of the Cybermen & Revelation are both great. Two Doctors is ok. Varos is a really interesting idea but the execution was a bit dodgy. Timelash and the Rani are laughably bad.
A lot of blame gets leveled at Colin Baker for killing Classic Who, but Warriors of the Deep makes it quite clear that the Fifth Doctor killed Who stone dead and Baker merely occupied its still warm corpse temporarily.
Sadly neither Davison or Colin stood a fair chance under the JNT/Saward production team. They really turned the show into its own worst fanfiction complete with desperate attempts to appear edgy and downbeat. The sad thing is, Caves of Androzani proves the era potentially could've been a lot greater than it was if sound judgments were made more often. Sadly it was an exception to the rule. As for Warriors of the Deep, it gave us an unfit for purpose Doctor in an unfit for broadcast story. Frankly it makes me think it'd have been better if the classic show had simply ended on The Five Doctors.
"Did you people paint a baby green!? No! We do not do this! We do not paint the baby green! This isn't even one of my "WTFIWWY," and I still have to say the phrase, "WE DO NOT PAINT THE BABY GREEN!"" -Nash Bozard in his review of "Delta & the Bannermen"
Actually I enjoy it as well, it’s one of my first classic doctor who episodes. I got it as part of a box set with the other two episodes featuring the Silurians/Sea Devils from the Jon Pertwee era.
No. I enjoy it as well though it has problems. Most of which come from then being forced to make it or simply lose the story altogether. When you have as little time as Doctor Who does for it to be cut further is not going to help.
I think once you factor what the 83 election did, the three decisions you can blame the production team for were (1) the execution of the Myrka, (2) the bright lighting that was guaranteed to show it at its worst rather than hiding it in the shadows as intended (director Pennant Roberts pretty much gave up when he couldn't get more scenes of it cut) and (3) giving him an action story in the first place when 'rubbish gun battles in the second half' is practically a visual trademark of his. Poor bastard really had the shittest luck when it came to 80s stories, as the last one he got lumbered with was Timelash.
Also, I'm surprised that you didn't mention how utterly out of character 5 was in this story. He seemed more to be on the side of the Silurians in the story than the humans, even though the Silurians, unlike in their first story which had good motivations that the audience can see where they're coming from, wanted to create a nuclear war. Speaking of nuclear, The Doctor practically says hello to the staff after almost creating a nuclear explosion and fight off two guards. This is not the 5th Doctor I know, this is not the Doctor I know. And the icing on the cake is him saying that the Silurians have good reason to blow the base apart, and him questioning why he likes humans when they are just trying to fend for themselves, and practically kills everyone in the base. Forget the 10th Doctor, this is the most mishandled I have ever seen for someone to write for the Doctor. And poor Davison is trying his damdest to try and save this story with his performance, in fact all three of them are, Davison, Fielding and Strickson did not deserve a script like Warriors of the Deep (and Time-Flight, and Four to Doomsday, and most of Season 20, and Planet of Fire, wow, 5's era is pretty underwhelming isn't it?)
Five's era is so hit and miss. There's Kinda, Enlightenment, Snakedance, Earthshock, Frontios, a couple of others and of course Androzani but the lows are so low. I'd call it the Capaldi era of Classic Who but in reality the Capaldi era is the Davison era of the revival.
"And poor Davison is trying his damdest to try and save this story with his performance, in fact all three of them are, Davison, Fielding and Strickson did not deserve a script like Warriors of the Deep (and Time-Flight, and Four to Doomsday, and most of Season 20, and Planet of Fire, wow, 5's era is pretty underwhelming isn't it?)" Hardly. I argue it's one the greatest runs ever. I mean Castrovalva, Kinda, The Visitation, Earthshock in S19 are excellent then Snakedance, Mawdryn Undead, Enlightenment and The Five Doctors in S20 then The Awakening, Frontios, Resurrection of the Daleks and The Caves of Androzani in S21. Every else is really solid save for Time-Flight and Warriors of the Deep and they have lots of strong points as well but just don't come together overall. Davison is excellent throughout creating a marvelous Doctor. What that means is that things matter. If things matter to the Doctor and companions then that is a large portion of the battle to get the story over. The underlying problem with the new series it's entire run is that so often things don't really matter because they are too self aware that they are characters in a fiction so the story stops while they have a laugh.
From what I’ve been able to gather, it looks like the Sea Devils were taken seriously back in the day despite being goofy looking fish men. (I’ve watched tons of classic Who, just not anything with them, yet). This was a big deal to have not only returning monsters, but also a team up should have made this at least watchable, but damn it didn’t turn out that way. This episode seems to have obliterated most of the demand for the Warriors of the Deep to come back. Not saying it can’t happen, it just seems unlikely, especially with Chibnall saying he’s emphasizing new monsters this next season.
Before I watched this, I decided to rewatch Warriors of the Deep. Admittedly, I was a bit pished, but I did get some enjoyment out of it!! The Myrka looks dreadful, sure, but I think the sets look pretty good, I think the characters of Vorshak and Nielsen are compelling and I actually like the build-up to the Sea Devils and the Myrka breaking into the base. Heck, the atmosphere/music in general is actually quite nice! And the final line does hit quite hard. With that said: I dislike how the Silurians and nerfed and how the Sea Devils are now warriors that serve the Silurians. It doesn't do them justice and is a big miss for sure. And yes, Turlough prematurely declaring the Doctor drowned and the open TARDIS made me roll my eyes...
The worst thing about this story in my opinion are the countless sub plots/scripting ideas. There’s been shit looking Doctor Who stories like Kinda and despite its really cheap looking effects it’s one of my favorite stories from Davison’s era. So it doesn’t matter how good the effects are well at least when we’re not talking about the Merka costume because.... at least the other stories were trying but like.... huh plus I can’t even keep track of the story and so much shit happens I just huuuuh
@@sadako24 for that to work you'd have to believe that thr commander dosent know whats on his own base same with his staff. It's just such terrible writing how could anyone look at this script and think "yeah thisis good"?
@@nifralo2752 Oh I agree it's terribly written. I honestly think it would never have gotten commissioned under any other production team, but JNT wanted to be the fan's favourite producer and so thought fanservice like this was a good idea.
@@sadako24 even as crappy fan fiction this is garbage. This episode makes up fake continuity to make it work. The sea devils never wanted peace and the one Silurian who did was murdered for suggesting it. On what planet did Bryne think the BBC could get the murka to work on the budget it had? That's like trying to draw with a crayon between your toes.
@@nifralo2752 Byrne comes off as incredibly arrogant and obtuse in his interviews (before he died, of course), convinced his story only failed to elicit sympathy for the 'noble' Silurians because of the usual production excuses, as though the audience were just too shallow to get it. I think he just had this agenda to push a political message about the 'nobility' and 'legitimate grievances' of the West's enemies and picked the Silurians to sell it, but then had to retcon new justifications for his angle. Apparently he was given the original tapes for the Pertwee Silurian stories but they were very grainy and hard to comprehend. So it sounds like he made up a lot of the gaps on the fly. Ian Levine (their unofficial continuity consultant) said he had to highlight some thirty-plus continuity errors in his script, prompting rewrites that just led to more of them. It should've been obvious this was a disaster in the making that should've been junked early on, but JNT determined otherwise.
As a half-hearted defence that i don't really actually mean, things i like about Warriors of the Deep: The Sea Devils' Samurai helmets Guest stars Charles Vine from the crap James Bond knock-offs, Greg Preston from Zombie Flesh Eaters and Eeengreed Peett and her amazing kung fu. A review of it i once read wherein the reviewer seemed to suffer a compound nervous breakdown halfway through and started ranting about the Rwandan genocide Um... Tegan's skirt. I got nothing else.
_A review of it i once read wherein the reviewer seemed to suffer a compound nervous breakdown halfway through and started ranting about the Rwandan genocide_ Oi! That was *my* review. :(
Against the backdrop of the paranoia of the time, spawning the amazing productions, "Threads" and "When the Wind Blows", this really could and should have been a very poignant story. Sadly however, it turned into something terrifying for all the wrong reasons. Just when you think it can't get any worse, it does. :(
I don't see how it could've been poignant? From the very start its premise is to undo the tragic ending of The Silurians only to redo it again and hope we still care.
In the original script the Myrka was essentially a larger, stronger and more ferocious Sea Devil. The special effects team didn't think that this would be visually impressive enough and redesigned it into the four legged beast on loan from Panto Horses "R" Us that you see in the story. Anyone else think that they would have been much better off sticking to the script?
@@sadako24 I agree with you. There are many flaws in the writing. The unecesserily high body count and the Silurians and Sea Devils lacking the aspects that make them sympathetic and morally ambiguous are two of the biggest for me.
The worst part of this for me is that I read the novelization first which I loved, so seeing the TV serial was a shock. It's dreadful in so many ways. Also the Twin Dilemma is indeed bad, very bad, but I prefer it over this thing, even if only slightly.
This is a bad story, but I still think Time-Flight is much worse. Warriors has good ideas, a good plot and some decent character work and it could have been decent had the production been competent. Time-Flight is an utter disaster on a script and production level.
Episode one makes more sense when you remember that part two was shown the next day, so it's more like the first half of a 45-minute episode. Still shit though.
Haven't seen it in ages,but I give it props for introducing me to the Silurians and Sea Devils. While at first viewing (1980 something on PBS,presented in feature film length version,about 90 minutes or so)I noticed the fx failures but put it down to TV productions having lower budgets(did not realize how criminally stingy the BBC were with the money). Even bought the Target novelization . I look at it as a guilty pleasure
Got to say this is one of the very worst Doctor Who stories. It feels like barely anything of substance happens in the first three episodes and just consists of rather laughable and terribly directed action sequences that loses its comedy appeal after about 10 minutes. It also has some horrible guest actors and cold war side plots that lead nowhere. It has nothing to expand on from the Sillurians and the Sea Devils and is just a repeat of the same themes and is rather poorly plotted and incredibly illogical. The only part I actually like is Peter Davison's performance who was great in this story. I made a review of this story on my channel earlier in the year if anyone wants to check it out.
But I was reminded of it when I first saw Johnny Mnemonic. So,a concept from a naff Who story might have been used as a story gimmick in a big budget Keanu Reeves cyberpunk film. So,it's got that going for it....
@@sadako24 Didn't know that. Either way, I thought of the serial when I first saw it. I view it nowadays much the same way someone might view a B movie like Samurai Cop. Sure,everything about it is wrong, but it succeded in entertaining me,but not in the way the makers intended the viewer to be entertained, lol
It sucks as this story had fantastic potential, and it's a shame Malcolm Hulke (writer and creator of both the Silurians and Sea Devil stories starring Jon Pertwee) died back in 1979, as I feel Malcolm could have really given this story more of an identity. Instead, it comes off as a massive pile of dump, and not the classic it should have been.
I think Malcolm Hulke always intended The Sea Devils to be the final word on the homo-reptilia, and I think he knew it would've been a bad idea to do a belated, contrived sequel like this. Unfortunately writers who lacked his smarts decided otherwise. If it were me, I would've gone for a different tack entirely. I would've done a story about two surviving underwater colonies of Silurians and Sea Devils who are actually coming into territorial conflicts with *each other*. The subtle point being made that with both races marginalized and kept down by humankind who they're powerless against, they've now started to fight among themselves, and the Doctor could try to negotiate for a peace between them. Keep humankind's part out of it, and the story becomes less dependent on viewers understanding the lengthy continuity backstory of grievances, and there becomes more focus on the character of both reptile races and more ambiguity of who to side with. Sometimes this show really triggers our imaginations, and then goes and disappoints them.
I actually quite like Warriors of the Deep, like I get there is a lot of problems there, all the action and dierecting and monster choreography is horrible, but I just don't think it's as bad as people seem to always say.
Really bad acting, gun effects weren't shooting anything. And the only interesting part was the silurian interaction with the sea devils. Big finish should try redoing this concept.
I actually really like this one😂 comparing also stories like fury from the deep where nobody dies and this one shows the failure of 5 that builds up this season
