That must become canon! After the crap they’ve added to it, they may as well kick chibnall out and go full Monty Python. You’ve got the magic behind Brazil, ripping yarns, time bandits, holy grail, et al, and you could go for a surreal journey just thru earths history! It could be a full story arc of irresponsible time travel fracturing the multiverse into surreal joe Rogan narrated dmt trips...... If they are gonna flog a dead horse you may as well have some fun with its corpse. You could even give it to the RU-vidrs for a while and do some creepy pasta and ARG stuff. A man can still dream. Til Disney licences it.
When they first appeared I thought that was exactly what was going to happen. They previously showed with Amy, that the Cyber-armour itself can do so independently.
I didn't mind the Cyberheads (though, yes, I did laugh), but I did think "Why couldn't they be Cyber-converted birds or something? Legend of the Cybermen had Cyber-Mermaids and Cyber-Vampires, so what's wrong with Cyberbirds?"
@@ishaandw if you're into Big Finish, I'd really recommend that story. Funnily enough, I talked about that idea with a friend and they reminded me of an outtake from series 2 where a Cyberman is running around in a park shouting "I'm free! Free as a bird! A Cyberbird! WEEEEEEEEE!" 😂
I'm always surprised by the lack of imagination with the Cybermen, especially the non-exploration of conversion. A major companion turned into one made for a great story, but could probably tell one just as good with the inverse. There's an interesting narrative of a partially converted person saved by the Doctor and then traveling with the latter as they recover. Someone struggling with not only the trauma of the event but also wondering how much of them is still left after the partial alteration by the Cybermen. All while offering unique insights as an individual given that some of that machine logic is still within. That could also create a compelling struggle within the Doctor whom over time wonders if they're doing more harm than good to the companion's mental health by having them as part of the adventures. Its nothing groundbreaking, but at least its a contrast from evil robots yelling "delete" at the heroes.
being made into a cyberman didnt even really change bill though, she was just sad that she looked like one, it didnt change how she thought even one bit, now if it had changed her mind atleast a little like maybe she becomes more caculating and cold as the episode progresses, it would have been more interesting
The Cybermen have so much potential. Arguably Doctor Who's most disturbing concept. I have issues with these final two episodes, but at least Chris can clearly see their potential.
Did anyone else notice that the survivors ship looks really similar to the flying saucer used by the cybermen in the 10th planet??? Just a nice touch that took my mind of everything melting to shit in my hands.
One reason I had worries for this was because the only other Cyber centric episode he had written prior was Cyberwoman... which also had partly converted Cyberman.
Me: someone who loves genesis of the Daleks loads but hasn’t watched it in years and has forgotten about the giant clams Stuart: Remember the giant clams?! Me: oh yeah, what a strange concept we never saw again
I have nothing but love for this part of the story. I love the Cybermen and Ashad and I adore the Cyber-Wars so this was really enjoyable. The second part just couldn't match it, but we'll get to that... oh boy. My problems with the finale aren't even linked with THAT twist.
Looking back, after The Timeless Children, the stuff with Brendan still feels out of place as a metaphor, as it's pretty much dropped in The Timeless Children for The Master's exposition dump. If the Brendon stuff led to something that linked back to the main plot of the story regarding the Cybermen, as its not even needed with the Timeless child sub plot. The whole plot works just as well without it, and tbh it probably could've went to giving the story with the Cybermen more time.
I actually think that the religious conquest angle could be interesting for Cybermen--you know, inquisitors, prophets, conversion at any cost--it could provide a reason for combat-ready cyberboys and possibly even inspire and explain the different Cybermen designs in a new way.
Andrew LaPorte that would be great and I loved the semi religious angel the lone cyberman had. Just a shame it went nowhere and was never mentioned again...
I have a theory Chibnall is trying to slowly transform Doctor Who into Epic theatre. Think about it; Characters outright saying their backstory and motivation, ham fisted metaphors, characters are just openly plot devices. This is brave.
In your idea Stu, how would Doctor lose those survivors one by one? Like, the way you want it, it should be barely noticeable, something the audience picks up, but the characters don't, but it's kind of dumb of the Doctor that she is there to protect these humans, and she doesn't keep a good eye on them.
Great video , loved it like all your other video's. I agree with you that cybermen stories these days are missing out the conversion angle in comparison to an episode like age of steel or rise of the cybermen where we saw a CGI cyber conversion unit.
I was pretty mixed on this episode, mainly because as you said it feels like a waste of time since nothing happens, but I did like Brendan stuff (probably for the same reasons you did, too), but after seeing how that went nowhere in the next episode I guess I like this episode even less now. This entire episode is skippable, all you need is a recap and/or just the last couple of minutes and then get right into the finale. As a side note, the 'To Select Audio Navigation Press Enter Now' joke is a hilariously accurate description of a Chibnall episode.
Just think about how many people those flying cyber heads must have gone through, if it actually says in the script "flying cyberman heads", I think Chris might have more writing issues than just bland characters
For me, it's not so much that they look dumb, but (a) they're not aerodynamic, and (b) why would the unemotional Cybermen bother to design anything other than a boringly functional drone, let alone one in their own image?
the cyber heads should have flown around you see the head open and then of screan the screams of the victume stop and you hear the helmet close ... would have been dark but genius
As an Irish guy, I cannot properly express my frustration that one of the only times we’ve gotten to see Ireland in one of my favourite shows is a weird, not real, setup for a later reveal
Am I the only one who really doesn't like the look of the Lone Cyberman? I can get over giving the Cybermen a humanised leader, but honestly having half the face sticking out just ruined it for me. Because they can't be gory enough to make it creepy, so he just has two little scars on his face and his skin is kinda pale. They should've just shown an eye or maybe some of the mouth if they really wanted to. Something that reminds you he's human instead of yelling it at you and smacking you over the head with it
I legitimately wanted Brendan to be the lone Cyberman until I realised that that was an Asian man called Ashad or something and not an Irish bloke called Brendan The whole Brendan thing would've been so much better if it was the lone Cyberman, and The Timeless Children (abandoning that entire plot) was instead about The Master giving Gallifrey to the Cybermen
While the Brendan stuff was “entertaining” it was entirely pointless, especially since the dr was apparently seeing all this but we as the audience weren’t made aware of it, we really should have just used this time to flesh out the timeless child stuff
Why couldn't teacher man be, you know, teaching some of the other survivors before they were attacked? Like, Chibbers could have him teacher adult survivors, while other members do their best to work on their camp. Fixing water pumps, mending patches in tents. Then they are attacked and instead of fighting back. They hide. Showing the audience they're not fighters and are just doing their best to survivor with what they can. Also, on a side note, and a spoiler warning. So the Brendan stuff was meant to be projected into the doctors head by The Master. He says so in part two. But, was there any indication of that? Did I miss it? I mean it cut from Brendan to the doctor, and there is no reaction from 13 that tells/shows us this is something she's seeing in her mind.
At this point I had hopes Brendan was going to be something interesting. Perhaps another abandoned child of Jack's, who became the lone Cyberman or something. At least that would have given a reason for Jacks cameo beyond poor comic relief and one line of teaser.
My conclusion is not the Chibnall is a 'bad' writer. He just doesn't understand sci-fi. And he thinks most people don't understand sci-fi. So now, you need to say: "A cyberman who makes other cybermen scream." And tell back stories. And use stupid, unpronouncable names. And throw in moar questions. And pretty much every other criticism you've thrown is explained by Chibs doesn't understand sci-fi. I found Broadbeach to be beautifully written. But then it's a mystery series that's meant to have more and more questions. Set in a real place with real names. He hasn't realized that most people watching Dr Who have a better understanding of sci-fi than he does. :(
Glad to hear I'm not the only one who didn't like this one. Even as someone who enjoyed most of series 12, I was surprised so many people were praising it.
Don’t worry Stuart I heavily disliked this episode as well. It seemed like chibnall had loads of ideas for the finale but wanted to get people excited. However because he knew kitting that happened would have any consequence the entire thing felt like he got bored throughout. The entire thing thinks it is so clever and impactful just because it kills a few people who I don’t remember the names of. Also we’re the cyber drones meant to be creepy or threatening. Or were they legitimately just for comedy because they made me laugh my arse off.
Chibnal's notes for this episode probably read "make everything look gritty to distract from lack of plot". Seriously this was the most generic piece of military sci-fi I have ever seen, it feels like even more of a letdown since the series actually had some genuinely good episodes just to give me some false hope.
Glad I wasn't the only one who felt this episode was a complete waste of time. Basically nothing in the story changes if they skips the Cyberman shit and shit land on the beach at the start. I'm looking forward to your Timeless Children review as I really didn't like it at all and the amount of praise it got was....well not shocking I suppose as this happened with Hell Bent and other shit Moffat finales but exhausting.
This finale kinda bothered me because it felt so poorly written. You have a really cool idea - a part converted cyberman, one who volunteered for the procedure. How would that affect them? Would they feel like an abomination? Would their feelings make them regret being converted? Instead all those ideas are dropped. The cybermen just wanna be robots now. So the lone cyberman is killed by the worst new who master, who is somehow weird and cringe, but forgets the bit about being fun and enjoyable to watch. Then we see him spend half the last episode reading from fanfiction about how Gallifrey started, which ultimately meant nothing to the end of the story.
I often find the Cybermen uninteresting when they become too big and epic and this story misses the point of the Cybermen for me trying to hunt down and destroy all humans and destroying all organic life in the next episode. It just makes them dull robots and disregards what makes them compelling
I literally watch every video, but please dont make me watch your video on The timeless children. I know what it did to Doctor Who and I am scared of listening to your opinion of it. I am fine with more Brexit, we have not had enough of that.
Stubagful Well, dullness is a recurring theme by now. But I find it extremely disgruntling to extend the doctors character to space jesus. It’s almost like s3-finale, just worse because there is no compelling story behind it.
The thing is there are still people who defend Brexit. Nobody likes The Timeless Children, even Chibnall. So no, right now Doctor Who is less controversial.
Mate, i'm disappointed. If Big Finish had a story that had some random seemingly unconnected story int he middle of a plot like this died with Brendon you'd be saying it was 'Artistic' and Brave' Now I KNOW you are going to hate the finale and the Timeless Child which I think is probably one of the greatest turns in Canon ever and as creative as Zagreus!
The Fonz you will though... your trapped. We all are. Like stu says we’re in a abusive relationship with a tv show. It hates us but we stick by it because they were kind in the beginning and might change one day.
The Fonz you’re watching this video aren’t you? You went to the effort of finding it and clicking on it just so you could make that comment. You’re already trapped. You just don’t know it
PC Andy Infinite Ha. It popped up in my feed and I watched 15 seconds of it while writing my comment. I don’t care enough to watch a recap or review of it.
