Head Coverings, Women Teachers, and Patriarchy | Costi Hinn & Owen Strachan | EP 140 

I agree, i don't wear one but after reading the passage again it's definitely not saying that long hair is the covering that Paul is referring to.

Agreed. This passage literally does not state that a woman’s hair IS the covering… it uses an appeal to nature to illustrate that even a woman’s long hair demonstrates a need for her to be covered. If one cannot interpret such a simple passage correctly, it makes me instantly question their lack of proper understanding in other passages as well.

@@susandesantell1379 my thoughts as well! I like Owen. I found him to be sound overall… but this one just makes NO sense. I pray Owen actually see’s this and does a deeper study.

Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair it is a disgrace for him, but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her for a covering. 1 Corinthians 11:14‭-‬15 ESV What in the world are you talking about??!! It says it right there!!

@@akadwriter read the whole passage for context “Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, but every wife who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven.” ‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭11‬:‭4‬-‭5‬ ‭ESV‬‬ “For it’s the same as of it were shaven” Paul is using a woman’s long hair as a SMILIE… to pray or prophesy uncovered is the same as it just like .. or just as bad .. as a woman who were to shave her head. Both equally disgraceful in this passage… It makes no sense to say- hey you must cover your head because if you don’t it’s just as disgraceful as I’d you shaved your head- BUT no worries your hair is your covering so you don’t have to cover actually… it doesn’t logically play out..

Me too!! ☺️☺️

It's a false teaching. All false teachings will do harm, some how and some way. If you can't pray without a fabric covering, then that fabric covering is a talisman. Talisman (basic definition)- a piece of clothing (or other physical object) that is believed to have spiritual or magical properties. The object will align with your intention for its use. Every time you look at a talisman, your mind will recall the original intention of its use, until wearing it becomes a necessary ritual.

@@user-iz8np3vv4i no that’s not the purpose of it, it’s not magical or a talisman .. it’s a symbol of submission to Christ in the midst of the church. And not every woman wears a mantle, they wear hats and berets but with an understanding that it’s submission unto the Lord and that’s not an issue… it’s also someone’s own conviction

@@jocelynarcentales Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head. -NASB version If the above scripture means a turban, for example, why would God require the priests to wear turbans? Paul certainly would have known about this and maybe seen it. You shall speak to all the skillful people whom I have endowed with the spirit of wisdom, that they make Aaron’s garments to consecrate him, that he may serve as priest to Me. And these are the garments which they shall make: a breastpiece, an ephod, a robe, a tunic of checkered work, a turban, and a sash. They shall make holy garments for your brother Aaron and his sons, so that he may serve as priest to Me. -excerpt Exodus 28 Jesus prayed with something on His head while on the cross. A crown of thorns. And they dressed Him in purple, and after twisting together a crown of thorns, they put it on Him; and they began saluting Him: “Hail, King of the Jews!” -excerpt Mark 15 And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into Your hands I entrust My spirit.” And having said this, He died. -excerpt Luke 23 ******************************************* At least twice a woman's hair was not only visible to Jesus Himself, but it touched Him. Neither woman was rebuked. Since Jesus didn't care about fabric head coverings why should we? “Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave me no water for my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You gave me no kiss, but from the time I came in she has not ceased to kiss my feet. You did not anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment. Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven-for she loved much. -excerpt Luke 7 Mary then took a pound of very expensive perfume of pure nard, and anointed the feet of Jesus and wiped His feet with her hair; and the house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume. But Judas Iscariot, one of His disciples, the one who intended to betray Him, said, “Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii and the proceeds given to poor people?” Now he said this, not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief, and as he kept the money box, he used to steal from what was put into it. Therefore Jesus said, “Leave her alone... -excerpt John 12 ************* It can only mean the hair is the covering, as the NASB states here: Does even nature itself not teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him, but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her as a covering. ********************************************************* In your own selves judge ye; is it seemly for a woman uncovered to pray to God? doth not even nature itself teach you, that if a man indeed have long hair, a dishonour it is to him? and a woman, if she have long hair, a glory it is to her, because the hair instead of a covering hath been given to her; ... -Young's Literal Translation (YLT) 1 Corinthians 11 verse 13-15 ************ No Old Covenant law requiring women to wear a fabric covering. Therefore no Old Testament reference available. 1 Corinthians 11 starts with this: ...hold firmly to the traditions, just as I handed them down to you... Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ. Now I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I handed them down to you. But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ. Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head. But every woman who has her head uncovered... So, there was no Old Covenant law requiring women to wear a fabric covering. There was no time to establish a tradition of a fabric covering. There was no way to "hold firmly to the traditions" because you can't start a 'tradition' in a period of time that is just a few years. ************ If the covering was a physical covering, then hair length is irrelevant. No one would know if the woman had long hair or no hair. ************ Also, if a woman needs to touch and pick up something physical, before she can communicate with God, that would make the fabric covering an idol. But one could also say it was a talisman I suppose, since a talisman could be an article of clothing. Talisman (basic definition)- a piece of clothing (or other physical object) that is believed to have spiritual or magical properties. The object will align with your intention for its use. Every time you look at a talisman, your mind will recall the original intention of its use, until wearing it becomes a necessary ritual. ************ There is also an essay by 'FA'. It's about a 5 minute read. The full essay is available if requested. Once again one must keep in mind when reading the essay, that women were not using a fabric covering as a requirement of the Law. So it was not part of the culture then. That is confirmed by the events of Jesus with the 2 women above and also the scriptures that discourage women from braiding their hair. If women were commonly wearing a head covering in public no one would have known about this braiding. Their head and hair would have been covered by the fabric. ...likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire,... -excerpt 1 Timothy 2 ESV Do not let your adorning be external-the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear- but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart... -excerpt 1 Peter 3 ESV Excerpt here of post by FA: If these verses do not move you yet then here’s one that should definitely blow your mind. Paul asks you to make a judgment call in verse 13 as if one should naturally see a problem because he asks you to: "Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? " If “covering” really meant a veil then one would have to explain why anyone would possibly come up with a judgment that a woman praying or prophesying WITHOUT A FABRIC VEIL ON THEIR HEAD WOULD LOGICALLY OR NATURALLY LOOK WRONG? Someone needs to explain this logically. Be honest, does looking at someone doing this naturally create a thought that a veil is missing?

Do not let agents of the devil stop you from obeying !!

​@@jocelynarcentalesI agree with most of what you're saying. Only objection is that this isn't written as optional in scripture. We've made it that way within the last 70 years for the sake of cultural pressure.

Very well said, and I wholeheartedly agree!

Verses 5 through 7, as well as verse 13, of 1 Corinthians 11 use a form of the Greek word for "veiled", κατακαλύπτω katakalupto; this is contrasted with the Greek word περιβόλαιον peribolaion, which is mentioned in verse 15 of the same chapter, in reference to "something cast around" as with the "hair of a woman … like a mantle cast around". These separate Greek words indicate that there are thus two headcoverings that Paul states are compulsory for Christian women to wear, a cloth veil and her natural hair. Some have taken issue with the fact that the Greek word used for covering in verse 15 (περιβόλαιον - peribolaion) is a different word than the form of the word used for veiling/covering in verses 5-7 and 13 (κατακαλύπτω - katakalupto), the latter of which means "to cover wholly" or "to veil". Moderator of the General Assembly of the Free Church of Scotland, John W. Keddie, contended that if simply any hair were the covering Paul was talking about, then verse 6 would read "For if the women have no hair on her head, let her also be shorn", rendering the passage to be nonsensical.

Susan Heck teaches Jesus was depressed. These women constantly teach error. They may be well meaning but that’s a fact. Don Currins wife teaches Adam ate the apple so Eve wouldn’t die alone. I don’t condemn them but women teaching theology is against scripture.

@@barryallen119 well said. I fought this ordinance until I realized this. Also rendered nonsense, would be the verse directed to men… take your “hair” off? I bought a few scarves after seeing that 😂

That’s the wonderful truth of the salvation message we are offered today, the free gift of Ephesians 2:8&9 KJV - it gives us the absolute freedom to do whatever we see fit (because all of our mistakes are already forgiven, Eph 1:7 KJV), so if a transvestite accepts the free gift, eternal life is theirs from that moment forward, whether they remain a transvestite or not. Israel’s law program (Acts 20:21 KJV) is over; we are living in the dispensation of the mystery which offers the free gift!

Very thoughtful comment. I began practicing covering several years ago but didn't continue when we joined (in error) a legalistic church. They believed that the hair was the covering. By contrast they also believed women shouldn't wear pants. I thought it odd for sure. So, I wouldn't seem as though I was being disrespectful, I stopped covering. I was so happy to read Mr Partridge book and it opened my eyes.

...because the hair instead of a covering hath been given to her... In your own selves judge ye; is it seemly for a woman uncovered to pray to God? doth not even nature itself teach you, that if a man indeed have long hair, a dishonour it is to him? and a woman, if she have long hair, a glory it is to her, because the hair instead of a covering hath been given to her;... -Young's Literal Translation (YLT) A woman's long hair is the 'covering'. My thoughts: post length 7 minutes, scriptures outside of Corinthians mostly Essay by another: post length 7 minutes, scriptures only within Corinthians Reply for post(s) if desired. They includes scriptures and commentary.

Wow, I really like your comment, I was part of the nar churches and the Lord opened my eyes to the true scriptures. There were women teachers there in nar. I listened to Keith Malcolmson teaching on head covering, it's a four part series.

“…the thing that is most astonishing here is that he appeals to creation, not to Corinth. 1 Cor. 11:3 If anything transcends local custom it is those things that are rooted and ordered in creation. That’s why I’m very frightened to be loose with this passage.” - R.C. Sproul Our reconstructed knowledge of first-century Corinth has led us to supply Paul with a rationale that is foreign to the one he gives himself. In a word, we are not only putting words in to the Apostle’s mouth, but we are ignoring the words that are there.” As Dr. Sproul frequently noted, Paul’s instruction in 1 Corinthians 11:2-12 grounds head coverings for wives in worship in the order of creation. Man was created first, which puts him in a position of authority over his wife; therefore, his wife should cover her head in corporate worship as a sign of her submission. Whatever role other cultural factors may play, grounding head coverings in the creation order suggests that the practice should be followed in every generation. It is something that reflects the world as it was created and how it should be.

“Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave me no water for my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You gave me no kiss, but from the time I came in she has not ceased to kiss my feet. You did not anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment. Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven-for she loved much. -excerpt Luke 7 Mary then took a pound of very expensive perfume of pure nard, and anointed the feet of Jesus and wiped His feet with her hair; and the house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume. But Judas Iscariot, one of His disciples, the one who intended to betray Him, said, “Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii and the proceeds given to poor people?” Now he said this, not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief, and as he kept the money box, he used to steal from what was put into it. Therefore Jesus said, “Leave her alone... -excerpt John 12

True, 1 Corinthians 11:10

​@@user-iz8np3vv4iIt's so powerful to see this example of a woman using her hair to perform such an act of servitude, and not vainly flaunting it like a glorious talisman at a church service. She used her hair, but it's an assumption that she fully unveiled herself. It doesn't say either way. It's no different than Peter talking of braided hair, and finding frescos of ancient church women with veils where you could still see their hair and their jewelry. Mary poured her most costly ointment on his feet, and placed her glory at his feet. Her glory was on display in the most humble manner, which is in stark contrast to the "hair" camp. So I appreciate you for using this example. I think it serves more as an indictment against the camp fixated on diminishing their glory through vanity, than it does as an example of hair being used in the presence of the Messiah. Mary's example does not contradict the apostolic decree of an artificial covering along with a woman's hair. Have an awesome day😊

I suggest my short and free essay on Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles. To say a woman can be a Judge over Israel, but a woman can't be an elder in a small church, just doesn't make any sense scripturally.

Lol😂 that’s not how these guys work…. Owen is a professional shadow boxer…

...because the hair instead of a covering hath been given to her... In your own selves judge ye; is it seemly for a woman uncovered to pray to God? doth not even nature itself teach you, that if a man indeed have long hair, a dishonour it is to him? and a woman, if she have long hair, a glory it is to her, because the hair instead of a covering hath been given to her;... -Young's Literal Translation (YLT) A woman's long hair is the 'covering'. This was the original teaching. Eventually a fabric covering came along as a false teaching. ...but because it has also been enjoined that the head should be veiled and the face covered; for it is a wicked thing for beauty to be a snare to men. Nor is it seemly for a woman to wish to make herself conspicuous, by using a purple veil. Would it were possible to abolish purple in dress, so as not to turn the eyes of spectators on the face of those that wear it! But the women, in the manufacture of all the rest of their dress, have made everything of purple, thus inflaming the lusts. And more: But by no manner of means are women to be allotted to uncover and exhibit any part of their person, lest both fall,-the men by being excited to look, they by drawing on themselves the eyes of the men. -Clement of Alexandria - 'The Instructor' about 198 A.D.

you wrote: Having men be the leaders at home, in the church, society and in government is not a new concept, and is very clearly rooted in the text of Scripture. I suggest my short and free essay on Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles, by God. A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin. A Judge was cleared to teach from scripture as he/she gave a verdict, according to Deuteronomy. Since in Judges 4, men went to Deborah to be judged, a woman could teach men, even in the Old Covenant in a public setting. _________________________________________________________________ ...because the hair instead of a covering hath been given to her... In your own selves judge ye; is it seemly for a woman uncovered to pray to God? doth not even nature itself teach you, that if a man indeed have long hair, a dishonour it is to him? and a woman, if she have long hair, a glory it is to her, because the hair instead of a covering hath been given to her;... -Young's Literal Translation (YLT) Does even nature itself not teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him, but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her as a covering. -NASB A woman's long hair is the 'covering'. If a fabric covering is actually required, then all references to hair are totally irrelevant to the subject. It only can make sense if the long hair of a woman is the 'covering'. She should be covered, with her long hair. To have short hair, like a man, means that she is basically bald. Therefore uncovered.

@@user-iz8np3vv4i Deborah is an example that is often used to try to refute patriarchy. The issue is that those who use it to do that are completely missing the entire message of the whole story in Judges. Israel was in a time of great moral decay. Men had so abdicated their own role, were so cowardly at heart, that God had a woman lead them. it was literally supposed to be a slap in the face to Israel that their men were so limp-wristed that this became necessary. If you read the WHOLE story you also see Jael, a woman (not Deborah), is the hero of the story. Why? Because the captain was too afraid to go to war without a woman at his side. His condemnation was that she would go with him, but the glory would go to a woman. When we look at scripture we have to take all of it together, or else we get strange doctrines. When you look at this story in full, especially in the context of the book of Judges (where all men did what they thought was right in their own eyes) and even further in the context of the Bible (which very clearly teaches patriarchy), Deborah is actually an argument FOR patriarchy. There's a difference between what God will allow in a case of extreme moral decay, and what God's design for society is. Divorce is allowed because of sin, but it is not God's design for society. Ideally Christians are not getting divorced. It is not what Christians should be upholding as a great and wonderful thing. God had Hosea marry a woman of ill repute of the sake of making a point, but are we to take that passage as recommendations for men to seek wives among wayward women? NO! You read each passage in its context and in light of the whole Bible. Deborah was allowed to rule because the moral decay of men was so great. You will note, that when God sets up a king, he goes with a man. Head coverings: You are doing what many do and are again, not reading the whole passage. If you follow the logic of the passage from beginning to end you will find that the hair is yes a “natural” covering, but Paul literally uses that very fact to then argue that it is obvious that women should wear a head covering in church. " Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you. 3 But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife[a] is her husband,[b] and the head of Christ is God. 4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, 5 but every wife[c] who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven." What causes the confusion for a lot of people is that here Paul is actually using the fact that everyone understands that women have long hair and that it would be a disgrace for her to shave it as an argument for why a woman should wear a head covering during worship because of the angels and to represent her place in the created order. “But since it is disgraceful for a wife to cut off her hair or shave her head, let her cover her head. 7 For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man…..That is why a wife ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.” Why would a woman need a symbol of authority on her head if she just needs to have long hair? Most women at that time already had long hair and the passage itself shows that culturally everyone knew it would be disgraceful for a woman to be shaved. Why was this even a topic necessary to bring up then? Because he ISN’T talking about just hair. He is using hair length as well as the created order as examples of things his readers already know are obviously good and necessary to show that head covering is necessary and natural and right for a woman to do in church. Church history bears this out, with women wearing head coverings (hats) all the way up until the 60’s. Even still, men remove their hats to pray and when they enter churches. What is even stranger is churches will claim long hair is the covering, and then be perfectly fine with their female members having pixie cuts and short hair, or men having long hair and man-buns. That is a slight digression from the topic, but it shows what I mean. There is an inherent wish to do away with God’s design, first with head coverings, now with hair length, and the church is doing little to stand in the way of that. I recommend the sermons series by Brian Borgman called Men and Women in Worship. One sermon called Men and Women in Worship: Headcoverings is specifically going through this passage. You can find it on sermon audio I believe. Highly recommend. Again, if we come to the Bible WITHOUT outside influences and just read what the Lord says patriarchy is glaringly clear. If we look at the passage on head coverings without any bias and just read it as it was meant to be read, logically following his point, then it's also obvious.

@@LizzyTwifehomemaker (sorry for the delay, there was no notification to me) you wrote: Deborah was allowed to rule because the moral decay of men was so great. Nothing in scripture says that. you wrote: Men had so abdicated their own role, were so cowardly at heart, that God had a woman lead them. Nothing in scripture says that. Then Deborah and Barak the son of Abinoam sang on that day, saying, “For the leaders leading in Israel, For the people volunteering, Bless the Lord! -excerpt Judges 5 My heart goes out to the commanders of Israel, The volunteers among the people; Bless the Lord! -excerpt Judges 5 You're seeing Deborah through the eyes of Paul. Search the scriptures, there was no gender qualification to be a Judge over Israel. The reason Deborah was sent as a Judge is here: ...the Lord was moved to pity... And when the Lord raised up judges for them, the Lord was with the judge and saved them from the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge; for the Lord was moved to pity by their groaning because of those who tormented and oppressed them. -excerpt Judges 2 God wanted to show what he could do with women in Judges 4 and 5. God made a woman a Judge over Israel. According to scripture, God ruled Israel through a Judge. God had a woman, not part of a battle, kill the enemy commander. you wrote: You will note, that when God sets up a king, he goes with a man. The time of the Judges ended because God was rejected as King. _________________________________________________________ INTRODUCTION: Before God was rejected by Israel for the rulership of men, that is, kings, there were different 'seasons' so to speak. One of those seasons was the time of the Judges. ...but they have rejected Me from being King over them. Then all the elders of Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah; and they said to him, “Behold, you have grown old, and your sons do not walk in your ways. Now appoint us a king to judge us like all the nations.” But the matter was displeasing in the sight of Samuel when they said, “Give us a king to judge us.” And Samuel prayed to the Lord. And the Lord said to Samuel, “Listen to the voice of the people regarding all that they say to you, because they have not rejected you, but they have rejected Me from being King over them. Like all the deeds which they have done since the day that I brought them up from Egypt even to this day-in that they have abandoned Me and served other gods-so they are doing to you as well. -excerpt 1 Samuel 8 _____________________________________________________________________ Full essay read time: 10 minutes

I know this is directed at the these men. It's not sinful for a women to work outside the home, what's sinful is if a women neglects her home for a career.

Bible is pretty clear on the home being the woman's work. She can work from.home to supplement income but should not be working outside of it. Is husband in full-time ministry? Time to go part-time perhaps. A woman working outside the home fulltime is neglecting her own home. That being said, a wife is to submit to her husband. But I would question a husband.being okay woth his wife working outside the home fulltime. Doesnt fit with what is commanded in the Bible.

@@jolo7173 I carry the insurance for our family. If I went part time, we’d have no insurance. I work full time and homeschool our children and take care of the home. Not sure what else I can do.

@@jolo7173what about the married couple that cannot have children and are unable to adopt or foster yet? What about those wives? Should they just sit around until able to have children? Keeping a home is a job, but without kids it most definitely is not a full time job if the keeper of home is working diligently everyday. It would take maybe 1-2 days of a week to deep clean a larger home when kids are not involved. The Bible doesn’t say a woman CANT work outside of the home. The Proverbs 31 woman was in the market place and going out to buy fields. She was doing her business about the town for the sake of her home. Her home was not being neglected.

@@jolo7173 Care to back up this spewed nonsense with Scriptures??? Where does the Bible say that if a woman works outside the home she is sinning? Or neglecting her home?? Back it up or shut up and stop burdening believers with extra Biblical commands. Satan already does that!!

Sounds like if you're aligning with this view and are consistent, that that would involve her speaking. Which is a no no

leaterry I suggest my short and free essay on Deborah. Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles. To say a woman can be a Judge over Israel, but a woman can't be an elder in a small church, just doesn't make any sense scripturally. So, women can teach. etc. The gospel message is a teaching. The first and most important. The Lord gives the command; The women who proclaim good news are a great army -excerpt Psalm 68 A Psalm of David.

...because the hair instead of a covering hath been given to her... In your own selves judge ye; is it seemly for a woman uncovered to pray to God? doth not even nature itself teach you, that if a man indeed have long hair, a dishonour it is to him? and a woman, if she have long hair, a glory it is to her, because the hair instead of a covering hath been given to her;... -Young's Literal Translation (YLT) A woman's long hair is the 'covering'.

@@user-iz8np3vv4i let's stick with hair as a covering, then could you please help me understand 4Every man praying or prophesying, having the head covered, doth dishonour his head, 5and every woman praying or prophesying with the head uncovered, doth dishonour her own head, for it is one and the same thing with her being shaven, 6for if a woman is not covered - then let her be shorn, and if [it is] a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven - let her be covered; 7for a man, indeed, ought not to cover the head, being the image and glory of God, and a woman is the glory of a man, As you said covering is hair, does men shave their heads every time before praying as they are not allowed to wear a covering. I'd say no, unless one has gone bald or chosen to shave it off (like me). It's scripture that has to be taken in full context and not pick and choose. Hence I stick with the covering as a cloth or similar material and not with hair as a covering. I'm not here for a debate or a fight.

@@FinneyJacobp you wrote: please help me understand you wrote: I'm not here for a debate or a fight. Ok, so which is it??? I have my thoughts which take 5 minutes to read. Also a short essay by another, about this matter that looks at Corinthians only. That also takes 5 minutes to read.

@@user-iz8np3vv4i please share your thoughts. I'm so sorry English isn't my first language and thanks for your patience on this. Could you please explain further? Thanks

@@FinneyJacobp Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head. -NASB version If the above scripture means a turban, for example, why would God require the priests to wear turbans? Paul certainly would have known about this and maybe seen it. You shall speak to all the skillful people whom I have endowed with the spirit of wisdom, that they make Aaron’s garments to consecrate him, that he may serve as priest to Me. And these are the garments which they shall make: a breastpiece, an ephod, a robe, a tunic of checkered work, a turban, and a sash. They shall make holy garments for your brother Aaron and his sons, so that he may serve as priest to Me. -excerpt Exodus 28 Jesus prayed with something on His head while on the cross. A crown of thorns. And they dressed Him in purple, and after twisting together a crown of thorns, they put it on Him; and they began saluting Him: “Hail, King of the Jews!” -excerpt Mark 15 And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, “Father, into Your hands I entrust My spirit.” And having said this, He died. -excerpt Luke 23 ******************************************* At least twice a woman's hair was not only visible to Jesus Himself, but it touched Him. Neither woman was rebuked. Since Jesus didn't care about fabric head coverings why should we? “Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave me no water for my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You gave me no kiss, but from the time I came in she has not ceased to kiss my feet. You did not anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment. Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven-for she loved much. -excerpt Luke 7 Mary then took a pound of very expensive perfume of pure nard, and anointed the feet of Jesus and wiped His feet with her hair; and the house was filled with the fragrance of the perfume. But Judas Iscariot, one of His disciples, the one who intended to betray Him, said, “Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii and the proceeds given to poor people?” Now he said this, not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief, and as he kept the money box, he used to steal from what was put into it. Therefore Jesus said, “Leave her alone... -excerpt John 12 ************* It can only mean the hair is the covering, as the NASB states here: Does even nature itself not teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a dishonor to him, but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her as a covering. ********************************************************* In your own selves judge ye; is it seemly for a woman uncovered to pray to God? doth not even nature itself teach you, that if a man indeed have long hair, a dishonour it is to him? and a woman, if she have long hair, a glory it is to her, because the hair instead of a covering hath been given to her; ... -Young's Literal Translation (YLT) 1 Corinthians 11 verse 13-15 ************ No Old Covenant law requiring women to wear a fabric covering. Therefore no Old Testament reference available. 1 Corinthians 11 starts with this: ...hold firmly to the traditions, just as I handed them down to you... Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ. Now I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I handed them down to you. But I want you to understand that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of a woman, and God is the head of Christ. Every man who has something on his head while praying or prophesying disgraces his head. But every woman who has her head uncovered... So, there was no Old Covenant law requiring women to wear a fabric covering. There was no time to establish a tradition of a fabric covering. There was no way to "hold firmly to the traditions" because you can't start a 'tradition' in a period of time that is just a few years. ************ If the covering was a physical covering, then hair length is irrelevant. No one would know if the woman had long hair or no hair. ************ Also, if a woman needs to touch and pick up something physical, before she can communicate with God, that would make the fabric covering an idol. But one could also say it was a talisman I suppose, since a talisman could be an article of clothing. Talisman (basic definition)- a piece of clothing (or other physical object) that is believed to have spiritual or magical properties. The object will align with your intention for its use. Every time you look at a talisman, your mind will recall the original intention of its use, until wearing it becomes a necessary ritual. ************ There is also an essay by 'FA'. It's about a 5 minute read. The full essay is available if requested. Once again one must keep in mind when reading the essay, that women were not using a fabric covering as a requirement of the Law. So it was not part of the culture then. That is confirmed by the events of Jesus with the 2 women above and also the scriptures that discourage women from braiding their hair. If women were commonly wearing a head covering in public no one would have known about this braiding. Their head and hair would have been covered by the fabric. ...likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly attire,... -excerpt 1 Timothy 2 ESV Do not let your adorning be external-the braiding of hair and the putting on of gold jewelry, or the clothing you wear- but let your adorning be the hidden person of the heart... -excerpt 1 Peter 3 ESV Excerpt here of post by FA: If these verses do not move you yet then here’s one that should definitely blow your mind. Paul asks you to make a judgment call in verse 13 as if one should naturally see a problem because he asks you to: "Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered? " If “covering” really meant a veil then one would have to explain why anyone would possibly come up with a judgment that a woman praying or prophesying WITHOUT A FABRIC VEIL ON THEIR HEAD WOULD LOGICALLY OR NATURALLY LOOK WRONG? Someone needs to explain this logically. Be honest, does looking at someone doing this naturally create a thought that a veil is missing?

I do think it's interesting that the woman who displayed hospitality from her home was actually the one who one the war for Israel, not Deborah the judge. Got any ideas as to why many ignore Yael in the home for Deborah?

​@marriage4life893 Yes Deborah gave a command from the Lord, and for those who think she wasn’t chosen by God to lead, she boldly says The Lord commands, then she prophecies from the Lord, because Barack didn't do what God instructed him to do, he chose to ask Deborah to go, and only then would he go, Deborah then prophesied from God that the war would be won by a woman. And the proof she is a true prophet of God is, that is what happened. God uses Jael, a Kenite woman to deliver Israel, thus proving Deborah’s prophecy true. Deborah was a leader and judge over Israel for 60 years, in all that time we see nothing recorded in scripture of men rebelling against her and her leadership, nor God saying she was not His anointed to lead. But men in fact sought her out regularly for Gods wisdom and counsel. I don’t know why many men and women try to make Deborah’s anointed rule, or Jaels courageous acts that delivered Israel into 40 years of peace under Deborahs leadership, why they overlook, try to change Gods word, or read into this things that aren’t said or happening. God is not a God of confusion, had Deborah not been His anointed choice of that time, why did He prophecy through her, why did all the Godly men of the time follow her, go to her, and not rebel. Nothing in Gods holy God breathed word shows she was anything other than Gods anointed judge. It’s sad that a viewpoint is often labeled a feminist viewpoint, which is sad because it shuts down discussion and further study. If God says women can’t be a leader over men, then, if it was some sort of exception, He would make that clear. People, men and women, put their bias that women can’t be leaders over men. If God gifts them to be, and He himself anoints them to that, we need to take note and understand all of scripture, knowing God never does things wrong or contradicts himself. It’s we who need to not bring bias and take scripture as whole. Again I go back to Genesis when God commanded them, Adam and Eve to rule and subdue equally. We have to take all of scripture into account, and remember who God is, Why if God doesn’t allow women to lead or rule over men, why did God anoint Deborah leader, why did God use Jael to deliver Israel, and remember God does nothing wrong. More people should talk about all hero’s of Bible, including women like Jael and Deborah. If God gifted and or used them, we should definitely take note and learn, and not say for God why He did that, let His scripture say what it says, and not read into it a bias. If God wanted it to be something more than what He put in scripture, He would have put it as so. Instead His clarity was she was a true prophet, she was an anointed and respected leader of Israel for 60 years, and Jael was a courageous women who God chose to deliver Israel.

@@marchant8601 Timothy 2: 12 which is rooted in Gods perfect creation order and as such is for all time and in all churches