If you want to hear a second opinion about the myth that you don't need to gain stage in digital 32-bit floating point audio, check this out: Watch this: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-yKLWbpNmHgM.html And this (about why you need to gain stage into analog emulated plugins): ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-0-2zTMjPAqk.html And this (how VU meters in analog emulated plugins will not pick up short transients): ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-w0DTz1XGDJo.html
Cheers mate. Thanks for your previous comments on the last video. I integrated some of your points and suggestions and they definitely helped to refine and improve this video. Hope you stay in touch!
good clarifications here, but -6dBFS peak doesn’t really make sense when the majority of emulated plugins like to sit around -18dBFS, but I totally agree, you should just gain stage properly. would be good to see a phase cancellation type tutorial to see what actually is added when you run an analog emulation at different operating levels.
@@robgreenwell2961 that's a good comment. I find that on my individual tracks and busses, I'm running analog emulated plugins at that lower level. Then when they all sum up, the master is sitting much higher. If I'm using something emulated on the master, I'll use a Utility device ahead of it to gain stage down again. That said, some emulated plugins behave in a pleasing way when driven at higher that recommended input levels. So -6 is still a fairly arbitrary number. The more important point is to be very aware of gain through your whole signal path and to set things correctly for the devices you're using and your desired sound.
Have to say this answer was a mic drop and made you look arrogant/amateurish. Basically Vesper's was right all along and you were just unnecessarily flexing knowledge that applies only on paper and not when you actually do the thing (for real).
@@anttim3391 I just watched these videos back to back and I can see where you get that impression but I don't agree. I think it's great that Vespers made both of these videos because the first one is like "this is a good rule of thumb to follow and this is the basic reason why", and this one really digs into the reasoning why people may agree or disagree with the rule of thumb. So many of these questions have answers that are "No...*most* of the time", and I appreciate that he took the time to break it down and clarify. It's always great to see the reasoning why people say what they say, and I learned a lot from both of these videos. It'll really improve my workflow to know not just what to keep in mind, but *why* to keep it in mind.
Wow! You're the first person that has managed to explain the -6 thing to me. I've been trying to understand it for years. I will probably continue to normalize to -0,2 before mastering, as that has always given me the best sound by far on every album etc I've ever mastered. But I shall remember the -6 for emulated plugs and such. Huge thanks! 👊
The -6dB is nonsense. Mix to whatever you want as long as it doesn't peak above -0dBfs on your master. -20dB is also fine. It doesn't matter. How plugins react to levels depends totally on the plugin and -6dB is not a magical value.
I am listening again for a reminder. But I just learned something else yes and no on -6 db. But I MUST listen again with paper and pencil as a reference. Thank you.
I'm also kinda slowly moving from 24 bit to 32 bit float. So much hardware and software supports it now, so it's starting to make a lot of sense. Did you know that just changing rendering bit depth in video from 8 to 32 transforms ugly banding to wonderful gradients, without making files larger? This video is so good I even subscribed.
This is a really great video. I learnt stuff that I didn't even know how to ask about. I came here when reading about 32-bit recording as I am a self-shooting doc maker and audio is one of the main struggles. However, I learnt from this video loads of other things about audio mixing I never knew about and it probably saved me future mistakes and frustration. Thanks for making this. B
Been following Vespers for years and it's always great to see you show up in another channel I'm following, great work as usual. That said, "spurred on a lot of really lively conversations in the comments", is the most eloquent way I've heard YT comments described. lol
Hey mate. Glad you liked this video. Actually the Vespers channel was re-branded into the Warp Academy channel, so I'm in the same place even though it seems like I've moved ;)
besides leaving enough db headroom to avoid clipping your mastering engineer will also be thankful if you leave enough dynamic headroom so that his dynamic processors can do work without delivering him a sausage allrdy
I love the sound. I love the channel. I really do appreciate all of the information you give fr! Thank you! I have a question though: How did you create that beautiful sound at the “QUESTION 2” transition 6:03. That synth ambient sound? Thanks
@@warpacademy Cheers! I am now wondering , do you guys have any tutorials or blog entries that address the fundamental "tools" , the types of plugins that every producer needs in order to mix and master their own track. Not necessarily the specific names of the plugins but just the type. I say this because we are flooded with new plugs all the time and i have like 6 different compressors and 10 different EQ's and i'm trying to narrow down my kit in a zen like fashion to improve my work flow. Anything helps , much love and thank you Again.
I just stumbled across this video, thanks for clarifying this issue, keep up the fantastic content! Also, where is that 808 from!? The timbre is absolutely incredible and I would love to get my hands on it, if at all possible!
Hey mate. Glad you liked this tutorial. That 808 was one I designed in Ableton's Operator synth. Here's a Live 10.1 project file that includes that 808 preset and a quick processing chain for you. Cheers! warpacademymaster.s3.amazonaws.com/+wa_free_downloads/Vespers+808+Maker/Vespers_808_Maker_Project.zip
@@warpacademy Thanks, man! 😀 Unfortunately, I'm a Logic user... Regardless, I'll see if there's any way to make it work! I can't wait to see what topics will be covered, in future content, on this channel!
Thank you so much for expanding on this from the last video. I must ask, what is that amazingness for your intro? Is that a full track I can buy somewhere, or is it just an intro piece?
You're welcome! That song is one of the demo tracks from our Darkside Funk Sound Bank for xFer Serum: www.warpacademy.com/store/darkside-funk/ If you buy the full bundle of expansions, it includes the Ableton Live and FL Studio project files for that song. You can also hear the full song on our Soundcloud: soundcloud.com/warpacademy/darkside-funk-glitch-hop-001 Cheers!
I’m about to begin the mixdown on my latest track (my second ever). And mine just wont sound as crisp and clean as any of my reference tracks. I feel like I’m missing or unaware of some foundational step. No matter what I do, I cant seem to get a “clean/sharp” sound. If I ramp the highs it just sounds harsh. Maybe you could do a video where you take a song that sounds drab and walk through cleaning it up and making it crisp?
Hey Jason. That's great you're getting into mixing down your tunes. It's always an exciting process. There's no quick fix for getting a clean mixdown. It's something that takes years of careful practice to develop your ear, learning techniques like how to apply EQ and compression, learning tools like your plugins & DAW, and critically listening in a good environment, like a treated studio. Expect it to take a lot of time. Be persistent. No single video could ever convey what's required to get a beautiful mixdown. That said, we do have quite a few videos on our channel on mixing. And there are also lots of fantastic videos from other folks too. Plus courses in mixing. I'd suggest you simply immerse yourself in the subject. Best of luck with your tune!
Hey Martin. Thanks for the sub! I unfortunately don't use Pro Tools, but one of the other users in the recent comments below said they implemented these tips in their Pro Tools template. Perhaps you could connect?
Alright so this may come off noobish but I’ve been watching a few videos on gain staging and for me it’s just brought me a few more questions into mind that have had me flustered. Firstly I can now grasp that only the master should be sitting around -6db that makes sense. Well I’ve seen a lot of different numbers thrown out there on gain staging -6db, -10db, -18db, and one person even said only -3dbI’m not sure where these apply aside from the master chain at -6db. Should I only be gain staging before mixing? Or is this something I can do while I work on my tracks because in my workflow I usually try to get as much processing done as I go to save extra work later and it’s exciting to hear the track come together as I work. It’s just my workflow & also helps me manage out any questions I have on the sounds I’m using while I go. I want my sounds to sound as good as possibly and the track to be pretty much completed arrangement wise before mixing. So with that being said is it okay to do it while I’m producing and writing? Then another concern is if I’m gain staging everything to a certain db how am I supposed to mix sounds later without messing anything up? Just adjust as needed with a separate utility at the top of my chain & one at the bottom of the chain to bring it back down? That sounds kinda ass backwards cause wouldn’t the take away just put my level back to where it was How does that work so I can keep certain elements louder than others. For example If my nonsense is getting confusing. I wanted to practice this so I wrote a little 16 bar loop w/ Drums, Bass, Synth, & all the good stuff while I was doing this at the top of each track I was gain staging each track to about -18db RMS & my peaks were hitting anywhere from -14db / -12db (I hope I said that right) Well after everything was said and done some of my elements weren’t mixed in right 100% but I was more so focussing on just trying to get the master to -6db well after all of this my master was peaking at about -1db / -2db even with certain sounds not being mixed in properly (too quiet) & with every track hitting around -18db with the peaks anywhere from -15db / -12db I assume this is because I had so many layers of stuff adding up to cause the master to go past -6db Should I use a utility on the master to even this out? Or Should I mix all my sounds to how I want them with a utility plugin at the top of each track (While faders are set to 0) then when I’m ready to mix fully then gain stage everything? Cause I saw one guy say he does it as he’s writing the tracks and just gain stages while he’s adding new plugins in. He didn’t elaborate though. That’s probably how I would do it.So with that being said should I keep lowering everything else? lower than -18db that’s what really confuses me about this process? Keeping things around -18db but also having certain sounds mixed in correctly so I can still hear them appropriately while also keeping that master low. Like I cannot tell if I’m crazy or if I’m thinking about this damn process WAY to hard. Which that’s probably the answer. I’m trying to accomplish this without touching the level faders at all right? Sorry if I made this WAY harder than it needed to be to understand I just want to make sure I’m doing everything the right way so by the time I get to the end I can push limiters and such on my master how I need too, to get the “Loudness” I’m looking for. Also side mixing question. Which is probably a SUPER N00B question. When entering a full on mix should I be bouncing down each individual track into a separate project file and mix that way? I’ve always just been trying to reach the best levels in my mixes while I’m still in the production stage. It’s more so something I’ve noticed while watching these videos is mostly no one is doing these things while they’re still in the process. Sorry for all my nonsense hopefully someone will be able to decipher my madness and help me out. It’s been bothering me all day since I spend like 5+ hours yesterday trying to understand this and I feel it’s just made me ask a million more questions. BTW Dope video as well! Thx this one probably helped the most but I'm still having other glaring questions.
Hey mate. There's no such thing as a bad or noob question. This is how we learn. I think you're over complicating the process in your mind. Let me set a couple things straight: 1) You should be monitoring gain in your entire signal chain all the way through the production process. I start with this template right from the beginning, simply turning everything down a lot. 2) In the mixing phase, I will review and tweak the gains all the way through the signal chains to ensure I'm getting correct levels into each plugin - paying special attention to analog emulated plugins. 3) As you're mixing, I definitely change the gain of each Utility. The initial gain stage down is simply a starting point to turn everything down. After that, once all the elements are in the song, I selectively balance the mix by turning some Utility devices up and others down to get a rough mix. For your final question, yes, in general I bounce all the tracks to audio before doing a fine & final mix. It's very useful to look at the waveforms vs. MIDI. You also have more control over audio than MIDI, because you can see the full tail of sounds, as well as do creative edits like reverses that are impossible in MIDI.
@@warpacademy You don't understand how much your response cleared things up. Thank you so much! I appreciate it deffinite sub for you good sir. Keep up the good work & spreading the knowledge!
Nice video, very clear. i speak Spanish but I could understand all. I use ableton and reaper, and reaper have the option of 64 bit fp but I think is so much recourse for very small difference... what do you think about 64 bit floating point? Thanks
I'm doing what you taught, and I checked the template too. Two things I noticed that might be issues, first, the individual tracks are delivered to the plugins in the track at a very low volume, so if I use a Waves plugin and it's at -30 LUFS in the track, isn't there a problem? Then in the master, after the stage gain +6 (I'm using either Waves L1 or Fabfilter), the tracks are delivered to the master effects at about -30 LUFS too, if the ideal is -22 to -17 LUFS, isn't there too much volume reduction going on?
As a new person to the audio world can you dumb this down for me…when you say peak at -6 you mean recording at it’s highest point so what should I aim for seeing a level most of the time? -13?
Hey David. Welcome to the world of audio! We're speaking about peak level here, as in sample peak level. As someone getting to know the field, I'd highly suggest you research the meanings and differences between peak / sample peak, RMS, LUFS, dBFS, and dB SPL. In this video, we're mainly referring to the instantaneous peak level on mix faders and the master channel so we're using dBFS peak. Cheers!
awesome tutorial ! Please i have a question : should i put the crossfader (manually) down to -6 Db or should i configure my track (kick for exemple) so it dosen't hit the -6 DB ? to undrestand me more : after processing my kick (as an exmple) , the track level hit -2 db ( so in this case should i put down the cross fader to - db) ?
Hey Mahdi. By crossfader, do you mean the volume fader of the master? If so, never adjust that. You should use Utility devices in Live to reduce the volume of each individual track as I did in my template. I set each track level to be -16 dB to start. It depends on the recommended input levels of any plugins you're working with.
With gain staging certain plugins doesn't the factor of them being linear or non linear matter? Saturators being non linear will sound different with more input gain vs say most eqs (linear) that wont
Hey Matt. Yes, exactly. My point is that different plugins need different input levels, so gain staging is critical. A saturator is a wonderful example of where the amount of gain that hits its input will radically affect it's sound.
I understand this process for mixing but do I set up all these channel strips right when I start producing as well? I'm always unsure how much volume to adjust when producing before mixing.
Yeah, I just add all of these into my production and mixing template. That way every track starts with these already applied and I don't need to waste valuable studio time adding them in.
Glad you like it! It's called Auxiliary Fusion and it's a demo song from our Serum Darkside Funk soundbank. It's part of a collection of 5 full songs for the soundbank. They're available for sale in .wav and full Ableton Live Project Files as part of a bundle if you buy Darkside Funk. You can check out the full songs and all details here: www.warpacademy.com/store/darkside-funk/ Cheers!
Serious guy. Knowledge rules. 32bit fp is the it. I can have a track in the red and while in the DAW no problems. But if I render out that's a problem. So if I transfer the track to Melodyne it will record the track. Problem? No, blobs will look crazy but it plays because.. Melodyne is a 32bit fp plug in. The reason why this works is explained in this video. So now you know, when you leave the 32bit fp realm 0 db rules. But while working it doesn't distort.
Glad you liked the tutorial mate! Yep, in Melo those blobs would be HUGE for sure. Lol. I love that they call the slices "blobs" as their actual technical term. Yep, 32 bit is boss. But you def gotta watch out for some plugins that can't handle a clipped input. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Great template - thank you. One thing - when i add extra plugins into the device rack, i gather they should come after the utility that reduces the gain, so that any plugin modelled with low headroom / hot clipping would have the necessary headroom when the signal goes into it?
You're welcome! Glad you like the template. Yes, that's correct. The Utility will lower the signal for the emulated plugin. Of course, some plugins sound great when the input is overdriven and can produce pleasing results. So experiment :) Cheers!
How it looks with the Output on all the Vst Synths like Spire,Serum, Sylenth 1 ?? can they clipp at their Output? Or how i should handle this with Vst ? to reach for example -18dbfs i just would turn the Volume Knob all the way down to Zero and slowly turn up until i reach nearly -18 dbfs ? and how i should it keep during the Whole Insert Plugins of a Vst Chain? also if there is an analog modelled plugin in between like an 1176 Compressor.?
Hey Scott. Glad you liked this one. I assure you, the e-mail is working. I've tested it personally. Usually what happens is the message is sitting in your spam/junk somewhere. To ensure this doesn't happen, please whitelist the domain warpacademy.com in your contacts. Your e-mail provider may also be screening out certain messages, which we can't control. I know that Gmail works just fine, so you can always try a Gmail account and check your promotions folder. If you still don't see it, contact our support at Warp Academy next week and we'll sort you out. Cheers!
The main thing I’m confused about is... can’t you just turn it up? Digital audio doesn’t really have the noise floor issue. I usually wind up mixing quieter than -6 and throw a gain to increase the volume at the end and I’ve never heard anything
@@warpacademy ohh man that would be awesome!!! I watched all your videos!! They are super helpful!! Thanks so much!! Looking forward for the flp mixing sesión!! Thank u! Thank u!!
Beatmakers love clipping distortion, but mixing engineers hate it. I think clipping distortion is a trend in rap music. mike dean is actively using distortion in his mixing n mastering.
For sure. It's useful as a creative effect. Definitely more prominent in aggressive genres like hip hop, trap and other electronic music where the tolerance for distortion is already very high. Thanks for watching!
You're in luck, as I've already done this. I've also built and included a free mixdown template with groups for everything you've mentioned. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-nM3cjFmjOi0.html
Maybe dude I use analog pre amp plugins in my freezing stage for colours/harmonics. So I'm not using them during the mix. But most producers don't render all their tracks. It's kinda part of my flow. Write render arrange mix etc.
Whats up with Logic pro X in regards to 32-bit float ? Always been struggling to get my levels to compete with FL Studio users while maintaining transients, and using far more effort to get the same sounds/samples to hit as hard
That's more of a mixing and mastering issue, than a gain staging issue. You can get insane loudness out of any modern DAW, if you understand the production, mixing, and mastering techniques to be able to do that. That is a much larger discussion though, for another time. Cheers!
Distortion usually sounds pleasing to the ears at first, but that much clipping across the whole master is way over the top and destroys the fidelity of the mix. If you like the sound of the grit on the low mids, it would be much better to use a multi-band distortion plugin like FabFilter Saturn or iZotope Trash 2 to target that, while leaving the rest of the song untouched.
![Headroom, Gain Staging & Clipping in 32 Bit Digital Audio [Mixing Tutorial]](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
